News You Can't Use
Well, it's time to dust off News You Can't Use, thanks to this hit piece on Mark Davis.
Titled "Raiders owner Mark Davis is in over his head," this piece is a series of mental leaps designed to arrive at a predetermined conclusion, but it ultimately fails to reach its destination due to numerous dead ends of faulty logic and assumption.
The author begins by quoting anonymous sources who tell stories of Mark Davis being openly belittled by his father Al Davis in front of Raiders staff. The author uses these stories to delve into all sorts of Freudian-style analysis, suggesting that this is the reason why Mark, not McKenzie (despite McKenzie's own words), fired Hue Jackson.
Essentially, the author declares that Mark Davis wants to rid the organization of anyone who saw him belittled by his father, which would be everyone in the organization if the anonymous sources are to be believed: "To project an image of authority, Mark Davis needs to surround himself with employees who didn’t see him routinely disparaged and condescended to by his legendary father."
If this is the case, then why is Hue Jackson the only employee of consequence who has been canned? What about Amy Trask and the rest of the management staff? Surely Ron Wolf and John Madden, Mark's advisors in the GM selection process, would have seen how Al Davis treated his son over the years, right? So why would he "surround" himself with them? Did Mark Davis look at all intimidated or paranoid at the press conference on Tuesday? Could have fooled me.
By using the words "in my opinion," the author is telegraphing that, hey, this is just an opinion piece, just a column, so I can say whatever I want. But, of course, his piece is more than that. If you want to read an example of a traditional opinion column, read Jason Whitlock's work for Fox Sports.
This piece, however, is news masquerading as opinion. The author quotes anonymous sources regarding Mark's relationship with his father, revealing insider anecdotes in the process, and thus he is breaking news. And when reporting the news, it is your obligation to seek the other side of the story. So, did the author call Mark Davis to get his side of the story? No, because nowhere does it say, "Mark Davis declined to comment on this story."
In other words, this is simply drive-by journalism, a takedown instead of a search for the truth.
Along the way, the author compares Mark Davis to Tommy Boy, the bumbling business heir portrayed in the eponymous movie by Chris Farley. It's no coincidence that, in the movie, Farley's haircut resembles Mark Davis's haircut, which has been widely ridiculed across the Internet since Tuesday's press conference.
The author probably thought he struck analogous gold when he came up with his Tommy Boy comparison, but in truth, he sunk to the lowest form of criticism: mocking someone's appearance.
The author also rips Mark Davis for only interviewing one GM candidate. That's one stance that I sort of understand. But at the same time, this wasn't your typical personnel search. It was one guided by two legendary advisors, who helped identify a uniquely qualified candidate employed by one of the NFL's finest organizations. If you're going to only do one interview, this is how you would do it.
Look, I don't know how Mark Davis is going to govern this organization. I'm not thrilled about his non-stance about keeping the Raiders in Oakland. But what I saw on Tuesday was an owner who was confident, competent and humble all at once, one who "knows what he doesn't know." Based on that press conference, he deserves the benefit of the doubt, at least for a few weeks.
Toward the end of his piece, the author also quotes Mark Davis from the press conference, when Mark noted that he “used to talk to my dad on the phone every night...and talk about football and the organization and things of that nature.”
So he was belittled by his father, but also very close to his father. In other words, father-son relationships can be complicated. Hey, who knew? Apparently not the author of this piece.
Titled "Raiders owner Mark Davis is in over his head," this piece is a series of mental leaps designed to arrive at a predetermined conclusion, but it ultimately fails to reach its destination due to numerous dead ends of faulty logic and assumption.
The author begins by quoting anonymous sources who tell stories of Mark Davis being openly belittled by his father Al Davis in front of Raiders staff. The author uses these stories to delve into all sorts of Freudian-style analysis, suggesting that this is the reason why Mark, not McKenzie (despite McKenzie's own words), fired Hue Jackson.
Essentially, the author declares that Mark Davis wants to rid the organization of anyone who saw him belittled by his father, which would be everyone in the organization if the anonymous sources are to be believed: "To project an image of authority, Mark Davis needs to surround himself with employees who didn’t see him routinely disparaged and condescended to by his legendary father."
If this is the case, then why is Hue Jackson the only employee of consequence who has been canned? What about Amy Trask and the rest of the management staff? Surely Ron Wolf and John Madden, Mark's advisors in the GM selection process, would have seen how Al Davis treated his son over the years, right? So why would he "surround" himself with them? Did Mark Davis look at all intimidated or paranoid at the press conference on Tuesday? Could have fooled me.
By using the words "in my opinion," the author is telegraphing that, hey, this is just an opinion piece, just a column, so I can say whatever I want. But, of course, his piece is more than that. If you want to read an example of a traditional opinion column, read Jason Whitlock's work for Fox Sports.
This piece, however, is news masquerading as opinion. The author quotes anonymous sources regarding Mark's relationship with his father, revealing insider anecdotes in the process, and thus he is breaking news. And when reporting the news, it is your obligation to seek the other side of the story. So, did the author call Mark Davis to get his side of the story? No, because nowhere does it say, "Mark Davis declined to comment on this story."
In other words, this is simply drive-by journalism, a takedown instead of a search for the truth.
Along the way, the author compares Mark Davis to Tommy Boy, the bumbling business heir portrayed in the eponymous movie by Chris Farley. It's no coincidence that, in the movie, Farley's haircut resembles Mark Davis's haircut, which has been widely ridiculed across the Internet since Tuesday's press conference.
The author probably thought he struck analogous gold when he came up with his Tommy Boy comparison, but in truth, he sunk to the lowest form of criticism: mocking someone's appearance.
The author also rips Mark Davis for only interviewing one GM candidate. That's one stance that I sort of understand. But at the same time, this wasn't your typical personnel search. It was one guided by two legendary advisors, who helped identify a uniquely qualified candidate employed by one of the NFL's finest organizations. If you're going to only do one interview, this is how you would do it.
Look, I don't know how Mark Davis is going to govern this organization. I'm not thrilled about his non-stance about keeping the Raiders in Oakland. But what I saw on Tuesday was an owner who was confident, competent and humble all at once, one who "knows what he doesn't know." Based on that press conference, he deserves the benefit of the doubt, at least for a few weeks.
Toward the end of his piece, the author also quotes Mark Davis from the press conference, when Mark noted that he “used to talk to my dad on the phone every night...and talk about football and the organization and things of that nature.”
So he was belittled by his father, but also very close to his father. In other words, father-son relationships can be complicated. Hey, who knew? Apparently not the author of this piece.
posted by Raider Take at 7:32 AM
395 Comments:
i guess just some people hate, and can't see anything good. there is no other explanation.
i don't believe mark davis fired hue jackson, especially with jackson's own comments yesterday saying, "reggie sat me down and told me he was bringing his own guy in."
that was a total reversal of what he said the day before. hmmm. i swear, the more he opens his mouth, the more reggie made the right move.
still feeling minty fresh, btw.
RT, folks love to hate the Raiders. It's not just Al Davis, it's everything that was ever connected to him, including his son. Once upon a time, you used to run the News You Can't Use columns to attack those attacking Al Davis, before you began to agree that seven losing seasons was his entire legacy.
I see a lot of defensiveness, as well, to folks questioning the moves by McKenzie. As a rookie GM, McKenzie has no track record and should be open to question. NOBODY has suggested that McKenzie should not have the authority to make whatever moves he thinks necessary.
However, we ARE close. For my part, I have maintained that Al Davis didn't begin a serious effort to REBUILD the Raiders (instead of RELOAD) until the year after Art Shell. He should have begun the process in Calahan's second year. I openly criticized him for THAT, but was attacked for my refusal to call for Davis to sell the team, or at least remove himself from it completely.
The talent level on this team, compared to where we were in Turner through Shell, is so far superior, it's almost laughable. We are very close. In fact, I think we'd have been back in the playoffs this year if not for the injuries, even with the poor performance down the stretch by the defense.
I fully believe that if nothing had changed, we'd be back in the playoffs next season.
But Al is no longer with us. Our current GM is 0-0, and open to question. Questioning Mark Davis is a little absurd, because he's done nothing yet to criticize other than hiring a perfectly qualified candidate for GM.
There are many reasons, important to McKenzie and some important to the Raiders, that McKenzie might chose to fire Jackson. I don't have a problem with him firing Jackson for those reasons.
But it does have a tendency to put a huge question mark onto next season, when the question mark was about to be removed after nine seasons of failing to make the playoffs. We may find ourselves starting all over again. That's not minty fresh - it's just not yet ripe.
H - Mark Davis was hired, at the age of eight, as a ball & equipment boy. He's been working in some capacity for them, almost ever since. He was fired that same year for failing to do his job correctly. However, he was rehired the following year. Apparently he had some connections inside the organization.
"...before you began to agree that seven losing seasons was his entire legacy."
Come on, this isn't the time or place for cheap shots like that.
This isn't a history blog. It's not a legacy blog. It's a blog about the state of the Oakland Raiders.
To the degree that it has taken a negative view amid the daily news of the Raiders, that view has been vividly confirmed by the product on the field.
There was plenty of grace period when this blog was launched. But as the losing streak reached record proportions, the state of the Raiders was pretty clear. And this is a blog about the state of the Raiders.
"the lowest form of criticism: mocking someone's appearance."
Ah!!...Do I remember allot of that regarding Al Davis and his skin cancer prior to his death...Like when he had press-conferences and the subject of his deathly look was pimped right here on this board...Not to mention all the slaps in the man's face regarding his age!!!
Than there were all the laughs over his use of a freaking piece of office equipment...The "OHP"!!!...Like that should have been any issue at all!!!
My god this hypocrisy runs deep!!!
May this bring shame upon your psyches.....You know who you are!!!
Re: That stupid damn self-projecting "Mediot"...Who gives a shit???...Why would I even read him or any one else except a freakin "HateTripper"???...So what benefit is there in spreading his meaningless excretions???...Note by note piece by piece???,...Just what the hell was the point??...Just what the hell was newsworthy in it that warranted it being published again on a Raider Board???
PantyRaider...This The Very Best You Can Do???
It's not a cheap shot, RT. You were fully on board, at one point, with the Al Davis must sell the team crowd.
If he'd done so, we'd have to have waived goodbye to the entire Raider legend. We'd have been starting over as an expansion franchise. We'd likely have been bought by a business tycoon who wanted to dabble in football ownership, like John York.
If that had happened, I'd have my Raider memories, but I'd likely have stopped watching pro football.
Nate,
On this:
""LB Rolando McClain, DL Richard Seymour and LB Kamerion Wimbley have played in a 3-4 scheme during their NFL careers."
Uh, Rolando McClain has not played in a 3-4 defense in the NFL."
Don't know who posted the origianl, but McClain did play for one of the masters of the 3-4 in college. Nick Saban runs probably the most complicated defenses in college, and he refuses to "dumb it down" and go slow with the players. I thought for sure we were switching when he was drafted.
Blanda,
Didn't know that. Never to old to learn. Still wondering how they would have gotten around the child labor laws.
Take,
For Mark Davis' knowing what he doesn't know, I'm reminded of another movie. Magnum Force, Clint Eastwood said, "A good man knows his limitations."
And, so Davis' hair is straight and he doesn't spend inordinate amounts of money trying to hide it. Hell, if my hair were any straighter--wait a minute, it can't get any straighter.
Also, I'm sure there are folks here who had tough fathers. When I was a teenager if you heard some of the talks with my father you would have thought I was one of the dumbest SOB's to crawl out from under a rock. He was a cop, and very old school. I mean half the fathers in my neighborhood talked that way.
Give me a break.
H
To add to what "BR" posted:
Your now pimping respect for Al's 48 yr old son who as of yet has no legacy at all other than that of being the offspring of his father...
Your also pimping respect for a 48 yr old "GM" who's current legacy is 0-n-1-n-1...0 gains -n- 1 loss -w- 1 interview!!!
But when it came to an 80 yr old Mr Davis who's legacy spans 6 decades a with achievement after achievement in the face of every adversity that may have confronted him you have shown NO respect at all!!!
But you have the arrogant assiduity to to point a finger at the loyalist who have questioned the replacement "GM"s 1st move???
PantyRaider....Un-Freakin Believable!!!!/_
I personally don't care what the truth is in regards to the Davis family relationship. What I do know is that Al Davis was a stubborn old owner, past his prime and rudderless without a true GM/coaching staff combo in the organization. He was a great football mind in the pre-Walsh era, and should be remembered as such. But it's time to move on. Bottom line: Mark is making the moves his dad should have a decade ago.
AvantGrape, I agree. Al Davis currently should have no authority over this football team.
"You were fully on board, at one point, with the Al Davis must sell the team crowd."
Another cheap shot, and a fabrication, too. Nice. Keep going.
mike silver - raider HATER!
that silver guy is an effing prick!
I wanted to comment on the issue of Green Bray's defense and the possible hiring of Moss, which is no certainty. Ranking defense by yds/game is truly an absurd way of ranking defenses. Yes, it tells part of the story, but not the entire story. Traditionally, high scoring teams give up a lot of yards of defense. It's pretty easy to see why. The more TD's and offensive scores, the more opportunities for the other team to score. A better ranking method is to look at the EPA, which can be done on Advanced NFL Stats: GB ranks 21st on D by that ranking. Also, more important than yards allowed is turnovers: GB led the league in interceptions this season. I remember back when the Raiders just about led the league in passing defense, but the stats failed to recognize that teams didn't throw on us because it was much easier to just run over us all day.
Blanda writes:
AvantGrape, I agree. Al Davis currently should have no authority over this football team.
---------
Sarcasm and humor noted. But you make an interesting observation: Al's presence loomed large over this organization, and I'm taking into account all of the good and the bad. It's a good thing to remove the Al loyalists (as many as possible IMO) and start fresh. I think we're on the right track; although, I will readily admit that I don't know if we have the right people in place or not.
NOW, HERE'S SOME FAIRNESS:
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120110/NEWS/120119958/1057/SPORTS0908?Title=Raiders-kick-out-usurper
Geez! Does Silver hate the Raiders much? Maybe he's speaking from his own life experiences and merely projecting onto Mark Davis.
Yahoo Sports just sunk below sea level for publishing that POS.
Mark Davis is "in over his head" but "he didn't botch his first hire."
Moron, his first hire was everything. Davis' job is done! He said so himself. Now he'll sit back and observe the results.
Mike Silver is what happens when stupid takes steriods.
Scorpio...
I think that's rather ridicules...
Hue talked too much but could do no more than what he was allowed to do...He had none of the $$$$ nor had he access to any of the contracts nor would he have known how to proceed if he did...That's all handled by the Raider's Attorney staff and "CEO"/Owner...
For instance the Cinnci Ownership would NOT have shipped Palmer off to OakTown without a negotiated and agreed upon settlement already in place and those picks on the way...Same goes for Seattle and Curry...No way he goes to OakTown without those draft picks being sent in exchange...
As for me I'm now past the Hue adversity...It is what it is and it's a done deal...I'm now focused upon what move saves our top 10 rated "O" from being "Blown Up" and sunk in the bay!!!..
That's my biggest issue and the only issue with letting Hue go...NOT his "D" because it was never his "D"...The "ST"s were his to a point and I liked it...Trickery!!!...But it was prolley drawn up by the "STC" who may yet still be with the team...It's a good unit so let's hope it remains...
PantyRaider...Please Don't Self Destruct While Your "Blowing Things Up"!!!!/_
Scorpio,
From the article, "That would mean he would be hiring his own boss, or in reality, he’d be the boss of his new boss."
That is the way Shanarat is operating in Washington. Two years, 6-10 and 5-11. Can you say "Hot Seat" boys and girls? I thought you could.
H
Great take, Take. it's actually opinion masquerading as news, but I get your point. In the absence of substance, the media needs "something" to do, and the teck of our galleon is riddled with their little arrows. Unless Mark Davis puts pads on or carries a clipboard in August, I've decided it's healthy to just see how this pans out from the kid who lost his daddy to cancer and inherited, well, a very powerful weapon. Journalist off the starboard bow, fire cannons!!!!
Last in yardage and first in interceptions suggests a high risk, high reward style of defense... their secondary is encouraged to jump the routes (as we saw CWood do against DHB) I'm not sure how that would translate into a HC though.
Thats the thing.. he's a LBs coach.
Maybe he would be a great HC like Madden, or someone that sez the right things but is completely over his head as HC like Singletary?
That hire wouldn't dazzle me.
Looks like McKenzie is interviewing the interim coach at Miami... who is supposed to be a great secondaries coach. And gad knows we need help there, but again... 3 games of HC experience? That doesn't dazzle me either.
I sad before any of this went down that if Hue is fired there better be a plan for an UPGRADE or this could be a grease fire.
I don't see the upgrade anywhere on the horizon...
"Thats the thing.. he's a LBs coach."
Hmmm, Seems what I predicted is already coming to pass. And, he hasn't even been inerviewed yet.
Madden was promoted to HC from being an LB coach. To be fair though, there really weren't DC's and OC's back then. At least not the way we know them.
On the LA thing. A reporter asked a question. Mark Davis gave an honest answer. Yes, they had an offer from LA. Yes, it was considered. It was rejected.
Bottom line--he's looking for a new stadium. However that gets done. I think the shared stadium is back on the table. But, I don't think he would go for sharing 49's Stadium like the Jets did.
But, to get all over the guy for being honest? Come on.
H
H said,
"Don't know who posted the origianl, but McClain did play for one of the masters of the 3-4 in college. Nick Saban runs probably the most complicated defenses in college, and he refuses to "dumb it down" and go slow with the players. I thought for sure we were switching when he was drafted."
Never questioned what he played in college, the quote was that he was steeped in 3-4 defense in his NFL career. He's never played 3-4 in his NFL Career.
the new coach doesn't have to be a guy with experience. look at harbaugh across the bay. i still think al made a mistake by not getting HIM! but that's all water under the bridge now.
my point is, harbaugh (who turned out to be a DAMNED good coach) did more with LESS than what hue did for us with MORE (talent i mean). harbaugh was a guy who didn't have any HC experience in the league but he succeeded.
it takes the RIGHT guy to turn things around. i don't believe we are that far away, and i don't think we really need to rebuild and start from scratch. just get the right coach in here (no retreads PLEASE), change a few things and we're right back in it.
if moss is that guy, then so be it. yes, his defense is ranked pretty low BUT there is something there that reggie sees that we don't see. but we read that reggie "prefers" a west coast offense so a moss hire doesn't fit there.
anyway, what about david shaw from stanford (just an example)? does the new coach have to come from the pro's?
Moss is the ASSISTANT HEAD COACH in addition to being the Insider Linebackers Coach.
He is not the DC.
Look at the org chart and see who's listed right beneath McCarthy in authority over the entire team of defending Super Bowl Champs:
http://www.packers.com/team/coaches.html
I've said nothing until now about Moss, good or bad. Let's start with the facts.
RT.. thank you for that. That does make me feel better. Honestly.
I was mistakenly under the impression he is simply the defensive guy...
hey take, since you referred to that packer site link, here's something to toss out there that's completely off topic:
its no secret that the packers are selling shares of their team (worthless shares that is) in order to make improvements to lambeau field.
since the raiders are "revenue challenged" is it possible to do the same thing in order to get the things we need done ie: stadium, or better players etc.?
how about a raider tv network? similar to the ny yankee tv network. or their OWN radio station run from the facility in alameda?
forgive me for my business ignorance. i'm just throwing out some WILD ideas to being some much needed $$$ in...
I'm all for creative measures. Let's keep the Oakland Raiders in OAKLAND!
Scorpio, the key difference between Moss and Harbaugh is Harbaugh was an accomplished head coach at Stanford. This is a HUGE difference. He had already successfully been in charge of a team. Moss has never even been a DC let alone a HC. The assistant head coach title was IMO given so he could stay with GB instead of taking a promotion else where.
Roy
Blanda, As I recall the debate, most of us IAAFers were simply calling for Al to hire a GM (and head of scouts, Player Personell)and not asking him to sell the team. It was clear that he was in over his head, not just the past 7 years but really the past 25 years were mired in mediocrity, save for 3 years of Gruden. I believe everyone knows Al was the Raiders and nobody was debating that.
Roy
Niners - less talent than the Raiders? I don't think so.
If we do hire a defense oriented head coach, I'm a bit worried about who's going to manage the offense. I think Hue was pretty good in that regard.
The main problem on the field is discipline... talent, passion, experience, were as good as anyone. Get a coach who can coach... and lead discipline by example, not words. Then, and only then, can the club Commit... to excel.
avant,
i was thinking of before the season. we raider fans know what kind of talent we have on our team. we have bush, mcfadden, we have dhb (who had a breakout year), ford, seymour etc. but now looking back, it turns out that THEY were the ones with more talent. BUT i say that now because harbaugh KNOWS how to bring out the best in those players. as a result, look at how many pro bowl/all pro players they have as opposed to... us. so he DID do more with less than what hue did with ours.
who knows? i hope reggie can find another "harbaugh" out there for us.
here;'s purdy's article on jim harbaugh:
http://www.insidebayarea.com/mark-purdy/ci_19722017
Mike Silver is a punk, plain and simple. Always has been, always will be. I will not ever read any of his articles for that very reason--I care not what "news" he breaks. Hell, I'd read Ann Killion before I'd read him.
His body of "work" speaks for itself.
JMHSO
---Jeff
Excellent take, RT.
Funny, because Silver actually wrote and said many nice, respectful things about Al after he passed. I agree that his article was more of an opinion and way off base.
Still don't know if I agree with the HueJax firing. I think he probably should have gotten another year. I'm no fan of Jason Whitlock, but he offers some insight into what others (including in the coaching arena) think of him in a recent piece (cocky, sneaky, and greedy). Maybe that opinion was passed to McKenzie from within the NFL management fraternity and he wanted no part of it.
This, also from Whitlock, should be posted in the Raider locker room next year:
The Carson Palmer trade — orchestrated by Hue-bris — could quite possibly be remembered as the dumbest, most-selfish act in the history of professional sports. Seriously. Capitalizing on the power vacuum created by the death of an NFL legend, a first-time head coach, in a desperate attempt to pad his resume and back into the playoffs with a flawed team with zero chance of winning the Super Bowl, compromised the future of his organization by handing Mike Brown a fortune for a washed-up quarterback.
Ouch!
Palmer looked like an obvious move for a team that should have been a lock to win the AFCW behind a vet QB. Who knew we were headed for a total face plant to end the season.
McKenzie's experience at GBay shaped his view of football operations and the importance in the relationship between the GM and HC.
He had first hand experience of watching the GM/HC relationships of both Wolf/Holmgren and Thompson/McCarthy. It is a true partnership.
Reading between the lines and knowing Jackson and McKenzie's distinctly different personalities (Jackson is brash, cocky, power hungry -- McKenzie is a roll up your sleeves, humble guy who isn't looking for the spotlight), you can understand why the partnership wouldn't be productive.
That's my 2 cent psychiatrist opinion.
According to PFT, current DC Don Capers of GBay is a potential candidate for the Raiders HC vacancy.
"BR"...
If the Raiders move back home to LA it's a non-issue for me...I moved there the last time and rather enjoyed it too...They won allot down south....
Seems to me a great part of the animosity towards the Raiders came after the move beck to OakTown....Wonder why that is???
Re: Harbaugh
He walked into an already established "D" and that's what has helped him win this season...How many of those coaches are his???
Roy...
"most of us IAAFers were simply calling for Al to hire a GM"
So how long have you been posting here???...The name "Roy" is rather new!!!
Re: Palmer
That was already noted as a Mark Davis deal and pimped as a good one by the "GM"...
The season ending loss was NOT on the man who threw for 400 yds....It was on the man who couldn't cover/rush the "QB"/tackle or keep his head in the game....Take your pick on the names!!!
Dom Capers is now added to the list....Yuk!!!...A 61 yr old "HC" failure???...Now that would SUCK!!!
PantyRaider...Say It Ain't True!!!!/_
CAPERS?? Dazzling. Someone shoot me.
>>>
. Capitalizing on the power vacuum created by the death of an NFL legend, a first-time head coach, in a desperate attempt to pad his resume and back into the playoffs with a flawed team with zero chance of winning the Super Bowl, compromised the future of his organization by handing Mike Brown a fortune for a washed-up quarterback.
>>>>
Whitlock is a moron. CP is far from washed up... just by looking at the two SD games alone... and a first and a second, both middle rounders??
This isn't like the Hershall Walker trade.
CP is a player you can build around.
There wasn't anyone else available that is even close, even if Campbell didn't get injured.
The only other person this year available would be Manning... what would that cost? Three first rounders?
Well now it seems that the name of Gruden is again surfacing as a candidate for "HC"....Many are they who try to re-write the history to support that bitch who pissed on our shield...So here be the reality as posted in the archives of time:
-----------------------------------
The Simple Truth About Jon Gruden From The Archives Of Time...NOT Re-Written History!!!
http://articles.sfgate.com/2002/jan/16
Gruden says he won’t discuss the Irish stew
December 04, 2001|David Bush
Though never saying point blank that he has no interest in the Notre Dame coaching job, Raiders coach Jon Gruden yesterday repeated he has had no contact with the school and that he is happy where he is.
“The last thing I want to do is speculate. I love it here. I love this team.
http://articles.sfgate.com/2001-12-04/sports/17630550_1_offensive-coordinator-bill-callahan-jon-gruden-raiders-coach
Back to school
December 09, 2001
Perhaps Jon Gruden would do almost anything to get away from Al Davis, but the fact is that Gruden — and Steve Mariucci, for that matter — always were unlikely candidates to take a college job like Notre Dame, even before they said they were not interested
http://articles.sfgate.com/2001-12-09/sports/17631510_1_nfl-head-coaches-jon-gruden-jobs
Gruden deserves to keep job
January 21, 2002|By David Steele
ONE OF sports’ most time-honored axioms is to never let a game come down to an official’s call. The same should go for a coach’s job.
But could it happen to Jon Gruden? Could referee Walt Coleman’s brainlock in the snow of Foxboro not only end the Raiders’ season prematurely, but Gruden’s tenure as well?
The issue is relevant because the Raiders’ head coach, now officially a lame duck, has become linked to yet another job, this time in Tampa. Reports are that Al Davis is unhappy about the late-season collapse and puts part of the blame on the fact that it took place right about the time the rumors about Notre Dame and other openings began to swirl around Gruden. Furthermore, Davis reportedly wouldn’t be against cutting a deal to let Gruden go with a year left on his contract, in return for compensation.
http://articles.sfgate.com/2002-01-21/sports/17527158_1_jon-gruden-gruden-s-tenure-raiders
Gruden good as gone? / Agent says coach won’t be with Raiders after ’02
January 22, 2002|By Ira Miller, Chronicle Staff Writer
Jon Gruden gave the Raiders a stark choice yesterday: They can let him out of his contract now, and probably get draft choices as compensation from another NFL team that wants him as their coach — the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
Or, they can keep him around for a lame-duck year, and wouldn’t that be fun? Then Gruden would leave the Raiders after the 2002 season when his contract expires, and they would get nothing in return.
Those are two lousy choices for the Raiders, but that’s all they have.
http://articles.sfgate.com/2002-01-22/sports/17527219_1_jon-gruden-raiders-boss-al-davis-washington-s-steve-spurrier
Agent says Gruden won’t re-sign with Raiders
January 23, 2002|By David Bush
A Raiders representative said the team hoped to have Jon Gruden coaching beyond 2002, but his agent last night reiterated that Gruden would not sign another contract with the team.
“Jon Gruden will not sign another contract with the Raiders,” agent Bob LaMonte told The Chronicle again last night. “This is not about leverage. There is no agenda here. He will honor his contract (which runs through 2002), and that’s it.”
Raiders senior assistant Bruce Allen said the Raiders have not ruled out Gruden’s lasting beyond 2002, despite LaMonte’s comments. “Jon’s status has been addressed every year since his rookie season,” Allen said. “We anticipate Jon will be here for years to come.”
Faced with LaMonte’s ultimatum and the fact that Gruden is at the top of Tampa Bay’s wish list, the Raiders might want to let Gruden go early in return for some compensation from the Bucs. “I have no comment on that,” LaMonte said.
“That’s up to the Raiders, and we have not heard from them.”
http://articles.sfgate.com/2002-01-23/sports/17528791_1_jon-gruden-senior-assistant-bruce-allen-raiders
Reaction to Gruden loss is split across the bay
February 19, 2002|Charles Burress, Pamela J. Podger, Chronicle Staff Writers
But after Davis gave his explanation of Gruden’s departure and said it was Gruden’s choice, Ricardo said he appreciated Davis’ apparent willingness to let Gruden pursue job offers.
Opinion was divided over whether the Raiders got a good deal for letting Gruden go — two first-round draft picks and two second-round picks, plus $8 million.
“It’s not enough — you can’t replace that guy,” Kugler said.
But Audelo said it “seems like a good deal for Raiders,” and Ricardo said Davis “looks like he won the Lotto. I think they got a hell of deal. They were going to lose Jon Gruden anyway” when his Raiders contract expired at the end of the 2002 season.
http://articles.sfgate.com/2002-02-19/news/17532342_1_raiders-fans-oakland-raiders-head-jon-gruden
Raiders’ players must accept burden
March 27, 2002|David Steele
They have to close the door on Jon Gruden and open it to Bill Callahan, and the sooner the better. The process, clearly, is in full swing, with tales now emerging of locker-room dissension in Gruden’s final days and the harmony that supposedly will replace it.
Yes, Brown acknowledged, last season ended with significant (albeit unnamed) players who "just could not function with Gruden, no matter what was tried, no matter what was said to the players or what was said to the coach. . . . We had guys going into the game (saying), ’I’m gonna kill this guy.’ " And no, there’s no hint that players — newcomers or holdovers — are showing up this week in that frame of mind about Callahan, even though he, Brown said, “is probably even more intense than Gruden is. It just comes off in a totally different way.”
When all the comparisons are done, however, Brown figures that the credit or blame for how the Raiders perform after Gruden’s contentious exit should fall on the players.
It probably won’t — in some corners, Gruden will get credit for putting together the pieces of a champion or blame for sowing the seeds for collapse by creating the sideshow of his departure.
http://articles.sfgate.com/2002-03-27/sports/17536727_1_jon-gruden-brown-figures-bill-callahan
No going back for Gruden / Coach won’t even utter word ‘Raiders’
January 10, 2003|Brian Murphy, Chronicle Staff Writer
In a conference call with Bay Area reporters on Wednesday, Gruden did not mention the Raiders or Oakland by name, instead answering multiple Raiders- oriented questions by referring to “their team” and “my previous employment.” Pressed on Thursday in a phone interview with The Chronicle, Gruden said he’s moving on out of respect — to both the Raiders, and to his NFC South champion Bucs.
Gruden did admit to a personal phone call to NFL MVP Rich Gannon to congratulate the quarterback with whom he “grinded” — the exalted Gruden verb — long hours of film study and offensive philosophy in their years as Raiders together..
“I did talk to Rich Gannon,” Gruden said. “It’s a great honor for him . . . but I don’t really want to talk now about personal and private things.”
Then, as Gruden soared into the region’s consciousness with his combination of boyish good looks, manic, theatrical sideline antics and Raiders teams that threatened to return to the Super Bowl, it all fell apart between Gruden and Davis.
Gruden got a five-year, $17.5 million contract, a team knocking on the Super Bowl door, and a life in the town where his parents, 49ers regional scout Jim and retired schoolteacher Kathy, have lived for 20 years.
“To be down here, where my family has lived the last 20 years, it means a lot to me, personally. It has impact, and deep mean-ing, and that says something for a shallow individual such as myself.”
Last year, the Bucs finished 26th in total yards, enough to get head coach Tony Dungy fired. Gruden’s first year saw the team only finish 24th in total yards. But don’t burden Gruden with those numbers.
http://articles.sfgate.com/2003-01-10/sports/17471283_1_gruden-s-bucs-jon-gruden-chronicle-gruden
Uhh.. can someone explain why Capers is even a RUMOR?
That sounds like a desperate Al hire after everyone else in the entire league turned him down. Shell 2 anyone?? Worse than that... at least Shell had a winning record.
I can't wait to see the McKenzie-frenzy spin on this!
Gary...
What's really funny is now some are even excusing the man because his losing record was with 2 expansion teams...Panthers -n- Texans....LoL!!!
Forgot...More Re: Gruden...
Al Was Pissed At 2 Things:
1st that a contract was on the table for a month and Gruden never even picked it up while all those rumors of him entertaini9ng other job offers were going UN-challenged…He refused to deny it…
2nd the season ending collapse and apparent loss of the locker room and alienation of his players…
Than Al Davis being pissed picked up the contract and withheld it so Gruden went running around to the "Mediot"s crying that he didn’t have a contract offer on the table…
But I forgot to post this:
Further, it is believed, Gruden wanted language in his contract explicitly allowing him to hire and fire all the assistant coaches and to have some measure of control in player personnel decisions. He also wanted the Raiders, whose loose-knit organizational structure, with everyone reporting to Davis, is a throwback to a much simpler time in pro football, to modernize and restructure. All those things are standard in most head-coaching contracts.
Although Gruden has made it a point never to criticize the Raiders in public, those who know him have heard him often privately complain about the way things were done in the organization, almost to a point of belittlement at times. And, although he publicly never complained about his contract or made a spectacle of seeking more money, he felt that Davis really has not appreciated what he did in turning around the image of the team.
As you can see from this he was belligerent and all about himself!!!
We can forget any Gruden speculation. I think McKenzie has someone targeted, but is interviewing folks for his backup plan.
Take,
“Moss is the ASSISTANT HEAD COACH in addition to being the Insider Linebackers Coach.”
Dang, I was holding back that little bit of information to see if it was going to be glossed over or just ignored. Spoiling my fun again.
Some folks won’t be happy unless it’s someone with HC experience at the highest level with two SB wins. Oh, wait a minute, I just described Shannarat.
Roy,
“The assistant head coach title was IMO given so he could stay with GB instead of taking a promotion else where.”
Exactly, so he must be pretty good, or at least thought of highly by the Cheesehead Factory.
Calico,
You work pretty cheap, can I get a consult?
Let’s look at the Palmer trade from a few different angles.
First, Mark Davis openly said he signed off on the deal. So, no need to keep draging Jackson through the mud more over that one.
Second, Palmer had a bit of a shaky start after sitting on his sofa watching football until mid-season. But, he played fairly well down the stretch. Over 400 yards against the Dolts. Basically, he held up his end of the bargain.
Third, there is another trade sitting out there that no one is talking about. Aaron Curry. It was not Palmer and the offense that let us down. It was the defense. Curry was supposed to shore up the defense. Yeah, it was only a seventh at the time, however, I think it has been upgraded to a fourth round pick based on playing time. Hue made him starter five minutes after the ink dried. In retrospect we may have gotten a better ROI from Palmer in that the offense played well, but the defense definitely laid an egg.
JMNLHO
H
Panty,
"Seems to me a great part of the animosity towards the Raiders came after the move beck to OakTown....Wonder why that is???"
Primarily--their record. As big an Al Davis fan, and many times defender, as I am, there is a bottom line. I completely understand the grumbling--the record--it is what it is.
Had we consistantly contended for the SB, even the harshest critics would have been rendered mute. Or, at least, it would have been a much lower volume.
H
I love this quote from John Madden about the interview with Reggie McKenzie:
“I kind of said to myself, ‘Self, don’t talk too much.’ As I am wont to do, and the next thing you know I’d be up there drawing on the board,” Madden said. “The discussion was primarily between Mark and Reggie.”
H
"H"...
Good Point!!!...
As I reread the reports from the past I started to notice that although there was a little disfavor involved towards Al Davis that it was minimal...The Gruden
TB" deal seamed to have fueled that fire and than with the loosing it gained allot of lasting momentum...
At least we both agree that a return ain't happening!!!
PantyRaider....You Can Never Go Back....Shell II Proved That To be True!!!/_
PR: I have been posting here for about 5-6 years. The name is not new.
H: Moss could be good but we really don't know. We knew Harbaugh was good. For the record, I don't want a retread HC. I want a young hungry HC, but I do want at least a coordinator experience.
Dom Capers should not even be a rumor.
Roy
DOM CAPERS?????
apparently i'm not the only one who think harbaugh would have suceeded as OUR coach!
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120112/NEWS/120119808/1057/SPORTS0908?Title=Harbaugh-would-ve-fixed-Raiders-too
As for Gruden, Back to the Future rarely works, as we well know. It worked for Apple. The Falcons tried it with Marion Campbell. It was a miserable failure both times. At least Shell had a decent record the first time around.
Let’s not recycle Wade Phillips either. Although I think he would make a good DC.
Roy,
We knew Harbaugh was a good college coach, and that his brother is doing some good things in Baltimore. It’s an indicator, not a guarantee. The landscape is littered with good college coaches who couldn’t get the job done in the NFL and vice versa.
You want guarantees, buy a set of Craftsman Tools from Sears. That's as close as you are going to get.
H
H, I completely agree that there is no guarantee with any coaching hire. That said, if someone has had success being in charge of something that is a calculated gamble. Choosing an LB coach for a defense that sucks seems like big gamble.
Roy
Here’s the way I see it. However many years Moss has been with GB, McKenzie has been there too. He’s seen him interact with players and coaches. He’s seen him coach. He’s seen him handle the responsibilities that have been given with his Assistant HC title. He has first hand interaction and observation of Moss. Moss also fits your requirement of young and hungry.
I believe it was you who stated GB only made him Assistant HC to keep him from taking a promotion elsewhere. Is that not the definition of an outstanding employee? You don’t do those kinds of things because you think he would do a lousy job with the opposition.
We interviewed Sean Payton for HC once. Dallas gave him a big raise to stay and basically said he was HC in Waiting.
He stayed with Dallas and is now trying to win his second SB with New Orleans. Peyton was Assistant Head Coach/Quarterbacks Coach at the time he was interviewed. Two years later he was in New Orleans.
The gamble worked out pretty well for the Aints.
H
I am not looking for any guarantees, but at least give me something to be excited about. CAPERS? Please. That's something you turn to out of desperation.
I can handle Moss, and perhaps even get excited about him as time goes on.
I was not excited about Shell2, and it got worse as time went on...
This should not even be a rumor. Its a slap in the face to us fans.
At least it should be...
H, I am not dead set against Moss, all I want is the same thing I have been asking for years. Interview several qualified candidates. This search seems extremely familiar to our old style. Lots of rumors and in the end winds up with the one name Al had wanted all along.
My main problem with Moss is his unit is not very good. Why not go after SF's DC. How about NO OC. Let's expand the job search outside of GB. That is all I am asking.
This league has a lot of young bright stars but it seems (key word because we don't know) that McKenzie is only focusing on his old team.
Roy
I don't know if anyone has been looking but the NFL "god" Crap has gotten way out of control!!!...
Religious Fanaticism over Tebow turns into this:
Salem witches in Brady's corner, but won't hex Tebow
Those pesky Salem witches are at it again.
Roughly 300 years after they were put on trial in hard-hitting colonial Massachusetts, a modern-day cadre of sorceresses are joining forces to ensure Tom Brady and the Patriots will come out on top in Saturday's AFC divisional playoff against the Broncos.
The group plans to gather Friday (the 13th, mind you) to nullify any curses associated with Brady..........
Are you freakin kidding me???
This after all last week the NFL pimping the question if god was behind Tebow and on Denver's side...
Yikes!!!...All jokes aside there be a hell of allot of really psycho religious fanatics watching football as a result of this stupid crap and that's prolley why the NFL is pushing it.....
Pass the plate $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Reggie is going to look where he has accurate knowledge...This after all is his 1st ever "HC" hire and you don't want to fuck it up...So safe is allot better than a gamble on an unknown that's being pimped to you...
I pimped Moss as "DC" last season and this season as well...To go to the "HC" position something else must happen for me to fell comfortable and than I would be very damn comfortable...
The "O" must be stabilized by keeping Al Saunders as "OC" so we already have 1/2 our team ready to play....Then we can concentrate on that "D"..."ST"s are also good so please don't screw with it either...
As for "GB"s "D"...Last season they were the #5 and stopped Pitts cold in that "SB" to win!!!...The 3's may have diminished but the results have been the same...One loss all season and Moss was the Assistant "HC" threw it all...
PantyRaider...Still Pimping By Boy!!!
...Panty, I'm a believer, agree with your slant, too, this has gotten way outta hand! Kurt Warner, Drew Brees, their message is same as Teebs, Tom Brady's faith and Tim Brown's too... but religious spotlight hype bugs me as well. It's the media mafiosos and the NFL bandwagon just raking it in, not the players. Play Ball!
Gary, take your own advice: relax, don't believe anything the clueless media say, we don't know anything going on within the Cone of Silence, there's no rush to hire a head coach, etc.
Ok, let’s not get our colons all knotted up over Capers. It’s just a rumor because Capers is the Cheesehead Factory DC. There’s like four or five GB assistants on the rumor list. Thing is, we have yet to see Reggie’s list.
Roy,
You will probably get your wish. He is conducting his first interview today I believe. Maybe he’s meeting secretly with Jeff Fisher also. With every search you should expect rumors. It’s the nature of the beast with about six million sports news outlets on the internet.
Panty,
Here’s my problem with Tebow. It’s the same one I had with him in college. He’s playing for the wrong team. He plays for the enemy.
The guy does a lot of work with sick kids, and terminally ill people using his own money. There’s a lot to admire about the non-football side of the kid. On the football side of things, he gives his all and when he walks off the field he has left everything out there. He’s got nothing left. A Bob Golic type of approach. Golic said if you aren’t totally exhausted when you come off the field, you didn’t play hard enough.
He is not the first to pray in the end zone after a TD. Frankly, it beats the hell out of some of the other antics that go on. It’s just that ugly-assed uniform he wears.
Having said all that I’m somewhat torn in the Patsies/Geldings game. It would be great to see the Patsies loose since this is the anniversary of the Snow Job.
As for the Super Bowl, well, Go Cheesehead Factory. That makes Mark Davis’ choice of Reggie McKenzie look even better.
H
Just a reminder...when GB hired McCarthy, everyone scoffed at it and said it was a poor hire....McKenzie was looked at and endorsed by Mr.Davis, Ron Wolf and John Madden. Why is there no trust in his method?
We are now supposed to believe whatever articles by the 'mediots' are writing? According to the "....", when most of you condemned the media during Mr.Davis' ownership until his passing. Now, all of a sudden, every article is being pointed to as gospel. The flip flopping would make all the presidential candidates envious.
Try and get some stability, RaiderNation. Take a deep breath and watch, all this mental masterbation is just a waste of time. At least wait until a move is made, as in, a HIRING.
JONES
Jones, quick question. Myself and you as well as many others raised all of same questions when Al was in charge. Are these no longer valid?
I want, no I NEED, Reggie to succeed. I feel like the Raiders are now a top flight organization but I would like to see the coaching search expanded from a handful of GB assistants.
Perhaps I am just not too good a this trust thing after being burned for so many years. That is a real possibility. I just desperately want to become relevant again.
Roy
"Jones, quick question. Myself and you as well as many others raised all of same questions when Al was in charge. Are these no longer valid?"
Well, Mr.Davis had been in charge and his style of work was well known. We knew that the Raiders were not going to hire a top candidate because of the way Mr.Davis ran the team. This is a whole new concept for the Raiders and McKenzie is the new guy in charge. We don't really have anything to go on because he hasn't had an official title of being a GM, until now.
All the speculation and rumors are just that, until McKenzie makes some moves and we see the direction, how can anyone even guess what will happen? The getting upset is silly to me because he hasn't even been in 'office' for more than a week and Raider fans are pissing themselves at "how bad it is looking". When Mr.Davis was in charge, we had a huge body of work and a set model to object or condone to. BIG difference.
"I would like to see the coaching search expanded from a handful of GB assistants"
Again, we don't know who McKenzie is serious about or who he really has his eyes on...until then, it's all just mental masterbation (Sammy Hagar).
JONES
COJONES....get some balls boys and stop whinin, at least give the guy a month, lol. If he starts making outrageous moves that look like they have no hope or makes Hue look like Vince Lombardi..THEN, there will be bitching, IMO, there won't be any bitching once we see the results.
I have total faith in Reggie to carry it through, he obviously has a high rep for talent evaluation and management skills to go along with his understanding of what makes a good football team. No dysfunction, no DC vs OC and players quitting on the field. No fued with the press and league, that shit wears on a team. When it's never ending drama....can't happen, Reggie knows this.
It's going to be streamlined and organized with everyone on the same page. When an Org is run well from top to bottom, it improves a team by 30-40%. Poorly run teams play poorly, just the way it is. Raiders will not be that way anymore. YOU will all see......
JONES
Do You "Tebow"???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYSRiz52exk&feature=related
WoW!!..."RT"...
It sounds like your finally maturing???
"I would like to see the coaching search expanded from a handful of GB assistants"
Isn't McKenzie interviewing the interim HC from Miami today?
I agree with others that Capers as possible HC does not excite me, but there's no reason to walk that plank until we reach it.
Obviously, the Raiders have provided crazy fodder for the media and they are taking full advantage... good and bad. It's gonna be a banner off-season.
If that's the case, then some are apparently un-maturing.
Two things struck me after watching the Reggie Mckenzie PC.
Reggie is intense, and no nonsense.
I would not want to be the HC, and have to explain to Reggie why we didn't make the playoffs.
As far as the HC search. Not "excited" by Dom Capers. Who cares.
Do you think they were excited in GB when they hired Mcarthy ?
Were they excited in NE, when Cleveland flop, Belichek was hired ?
You think Giants fans were excited by Tom Coughlin ?
Were they excited in Pittsburgh, over Tomlin replacing Cowher ?
C'mon, wake up. After Al Davis, there is no one the Raiders can hire that will excite.
Just give me a dull guy who wins.
That was a really good Take-down... couldn't have been said any better.
I read a transcript of an interview between McDonald and Madden. It is on inside the raiders, while Madden was not too familiar with McKenzie he did sit in on the interview. He says Mark handled himself nicely.
It has calmed me down.
I can't wait for this HC search to be over. Raider 00, I think your standards are too low, but at least you aren't giving yourself an ulcer over this.
Roy
I would also add that the Chargers were not excited when the hired Norv.
The Rams were not excited when they hired Spangulo.
Nor were Cowboys when they hired Wade Phillips...
Roy
Roy,
What I mean to say is, give me a Tom Flores type, and I'll be happy.
Remember when Flores followed Madden ?
Everyone said, "Tom who ?". It was not exciting.
Tom was a cool cat, that showed little emotion.
But those 2 SB wins were sure exciting, right ?
That's what I want. Give me that.
I would be surprised if we hire a "high profile" head coach. A younger, hungry, ambitious coach who can build a team in partnership with McKenzie is most likely. The current GBay OC, Joe Philbin, to me would be an exciting, promising candidate.
We shall see.
One interesting change.. if the Capers rumors were floated while Al was alive, this place would be going INSANE with rage.
Now silence....
Hmmmm
Ideal situation is Philbin as HC and Moss or Perry as DC, but Philbin just lost his son... wondering if his heart would be into it...
Ok, we just lost the only coach that seemed to have our players overachieving... Sanjay Lal.
YIPPEE!
Lets light this candle... to 5 wins next year!
calico said: "I would be surprised if we hire a "high profile" head coach. A younger, hungry, ambitious coach who can build a team in partnership with McKenzie is most likely. The current GBay OC, Joe Philbin, to me would be an exciting, promising candidate."
calico - philbin is NOT young. he's 50.
david shaw of stanford isn't young either (40) but he fits the west coast style of football reggie referred to. he was wide receiver under the walsh/green era at stanford + he was on staff a few years ago so he also knows the raider way. i like the fact that he kept that program winning after harbaugh left so we know he has leadership skills. here's a little more on his history:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Shaw_%28American_football%29
WR coach first to go from Raiders staff...Just As I Was Pimping!!!
The New York Jets hired Sanjay Lal to be their wide receivers coach, according to a report from NewYorkJets.com. Lal held that position with the Raiders the past five seasons.
'Tuck Rule Game' changed destinies
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2011/story/_/id/7451541/nfl-ten-years-later-tuck-rule-game-resonates
Every Raider Fan should read this one...It finally answers all the questions with testimony also from the damn "Zebra"!!!
Yes!!!...And with your spiteful childish bitterness I considered that was you!!!
Now the question arises if there are any on the Raider Coaching Staff worth keeping??...
If we don't move to lock them up we may lose them...Al Saunders for one and what about our "OL" coach -n- Wiz???...This would be sad...Risky to wait for the "GB" loss before we can make moves...
"WCO"....
I saw something very interesting about that recently but now don't remember where...But it's NOT what many have thought it to be....It came from the West Coast years before Walsh who modified it to his liking....
Sid Gilman and Al Davis were pard of that "WCO" so when Reggie refers to liking this "O" he may be referring to it as it's original form...
Even under Walsh there was several opportunities to strike deep...After all who was Jerry Rice???
But it is a Power Running Deep Attacking Vertical "O"....With Walsh the short passing game was added to be like long hand offs for the power running game...
I wuill try to find that post and post it here if I find it...Interesting material!!!
PantyRaider...The West Coast Was Known For The Bomb!!!/_
>>>>
Every Raider Fan should read this one...It finally answers all the questions with testimony also from the damn "Zebra"!!!
>>>
Love how Coleman was lying through his TEETH that the replay showed what he missed on the field.
All the CBS camera's missed almost the entire play.
I broke it down frame by frame.
The replay from the front (which Coleman said was what made him change his mind) jerked quickly from the side into the play almost at the same time Woodson hit Brady.
The cameraman missed it almost entirely from that angle.
Certainly not enough IRREFUTABLE evidence to overturn the call. Coleman is a liar and STILL thinks he is god on the field... he rutinely overturns calls with no evidence based on a hunch.
The worst ref in the history of reffing.
Gary...
Yes!!!...Even after 10 freakin seasons and they still try to pimp this crap even when Brady and other "NE" players knew and testified it was our ball...And the "Zebra" who called it on the field who was the only one to see it clearly!!!
Just SUCKS!!!
...even Brady said it was a fumble. I saw it again last night, cuts like a dull knife!
Re: TUCK Jon Ritchie: "It's easy to blame one call, but the bottom line is we should have played better. Offensively, we failed to convert on a short-yardage play that could have put the game away. Defensively, we could have done more when they had the ball. We left plays on the field."...
I was not on the field that day, but he was. This is true, but doesn't cut it for me. If this were the case, why haven't more QB's been "tucking" since then? Such an easy way to ditch the ball, just move your arm forward whenever a defender gets near! No recievers required. Hmm, why isn't it taught? Because no ref worth his salt will ever call it. Gee, thanks Panty, now I'm all pissed off again, that was Gruden's last game, to top it off. Now I even hate snow.
Question: is there another instance, ever, of this call?
What the tuck.
"OTB"...
NO!!...There was a play this season and they said this will be the "Tuck Rule" but it was NOT called...Instead they called something else like incomplete pass or whatever but refused to call it the "Tuck"!!!
For years Brady has refused to address this isue...Finally after 10 seasons he comes out with it...Like it's beyond the "Statute of Limitations"???....Their "SB" Ring should display an (*) with a huge (R) for Raiders!!!....
R*
I saw the link to the tuck game but still get a vomitous feeling in my throat when it's even mentioned. No way could I read about it.
That game changed our collective lives for the past 10 years.
Raiders win that game they beat the rams - period. Two weeks between that game and super bowl allows chucky to game plan to the point of running up big numbers. Brown or Gannon voted mvp. HOF becomes a real possibility esp. for Gannon.
But most importantly - chucky stays, Bruce Allen stays. Raiders become the team of the decade.
Instead...
I was around for the immaculate deception also. Hard to imagine going through that type of thing twice.
I used to have the stills from the replay that Coleman used that he said clearly showed his arm moving forward... you couldn't see SHIT. THE CAMERAMEN NEARLY MISSED THE PLAY!
BTW, I do not think the Raiders would have won a ring that year.. does anyone remember our safeties that year? They were as bad as last years. Warner would STILL be throwing TD's vs them.
I just hate liars.. and Coleman is lying through his teeth.
Wish I could find those stills...
Here ya' go, Gary:
http://www.provencehome.org/refsuck/images/snowjob02.jpg
---Jeff
Ark.. thats the famous photo showing that his hand was not going forward, but I had a series of stills taken from the replays that Coleman was looking at... taken directly from the broadcast tape.
You couldn't see anything to draw any conclusions... and the front camera had to turn sharply to the left right before impact or it would have missed the play entirely. Thats the view Coleman claimed changed his mind... he is lying through his TEETH!
Oh, okay.
Sorry, I can't help you there.
---Jeff
did anyone notice that since that infamous incident, walt coleman has NEVER reffed a game here in oakland? and never will?
dude would NEVER get out of the coliseum ALIVE!
...just had to celebrate the day, a day I hoped we'd return to New England for the "What The
Tuck" Bowl, by affixing the OTB logo to my rear window. That being done, I'm ready. :)
BTW, years ago, Brady did say right away, it was a fumble, he had no intentions of passing... we know that. He tucked it. In my "fumble opinion", if you're gonna tuck it, "it's tucked". If you fail to tuck it, well, "you're f.....ed"!
2012.
That wasn't the AFC Championship Game...We still would have had to beat Pitts to go to the "SB"...
Being a Bresnahan "D" it's hard to say what would have/could have happened???...But for damn sure we earned the chance to find out but had it stripped away from us...
But make no mistake about it...Long before that game Gruden had already lost his locker room and the team had gone threw a Dec slump as a direct result...The contract had already been pulled off the table and Gruden was already entertaining other job opportunities...
Just look at the date of that Jan game and the dates of the trade talk also in Jan...There's NOT much of a time span here...It was al;ready in the works...
PantyRaider....What Could Have Been -vs- What Was Will Never Die!!!!/_
Jan. 19, 2002...."Tuck Rule"!!!
2 days later this:
Gruden deserves to keep job
January 21, 2002|By David Steele
ONE OF sports’ most time-honored axioms is to never let a game come down to an official’s call. The same should go for a coach’s job.
But could it happen to Jon Gruden? Could referee Walt Coleman’s brainlock in the snow of Foxboro not only end the Raiders’ season prematurely, but Gruden’s tenure as well?
The issue is relevant because the Raiders’ head coach, now officially a lame duck, has become linked to yet another job, this time in Tampa. Reports are that Al Davis is unhappy about the late-season collapse and puts part of the blame on the fact that it took place right about the time the rumors about Notre Dame and other openings began to swirl around Gruden. Furthermore, Davis reportedly wouldn’t be against cutting a deal to let Gruden go with a year left on his contract, in return for compensation.
http://articles.sfgate.com/2002-01-21/sports/17527158_1_jon-gruden-gruden-s-tenure-raiders
This did NOT just happen after the Tuck Game was over...It was already in the works and waiting until our season was over before the interest was shown!!!
PantyRaider....Gruden Was Already Changing The Landscape!!!/_
"NO" is going to light Frisco up!!!
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012011401/2011/POST19/saints@49ers#menu=depthchart&tab=analyze
NO Contest!!!
...sorry, not to confuse, i like to call certain matchups the "______ Bowl"... my neighbor used to call the Raider Bolt's matchups back in the 90's "The Loser Bowl" twice a year... pretty funny. I anxiously await a snowy "What-The-Tuck Bowl" while Brady's still at the helm. KaPow! Raider Snow Angels, pretty gay, I don't think so... But Yellow snow? Red snow? Likely.
Panty 10-4 on it being a divisional game but they would have beaten Pitt as I believe they did that next year.
With the SB win Chucky stays I think.
Oh well.
memdf...
It's all difficult to know at this point but with all these Raider Fans pimping the return of Gruden I just had to rehash all the negativity that surrounded those events...Very painful times to say the least!!!
But now's the time to look forward even though that's a little cloudy at present as well???
...thinking of turning the tube to Black and White to pretend it's the Raiders in the bay area right now... grumble grumble
"NO" SUCKS Today...LoL!!!
Halftime adjustments could add some points to the Breeeeeeeeze... thrilla dilla
LoL!!!....That Breeze was just a whiff of air...No wind in the sails at all...
Yikes!!!...Looks like those Salem Witches cursed that frigging ASS!!!
45-10 -w- 3 ticks left....No T-Majic in sight!!!
Urgent Breaking News From The "Mule Valley"!!!....
Elway puts “Donkey Magic” on the Chopping Block!!!
Any takers on the “T-Bowne” Steak???….Tune in later for full reports on the “MuleHead’s Religious Crusades” and “Crucifixion Of Elway”!!!
How dare he let that god blessed 35% passer slip away???
LoL!!!…The Mighty Blessed Tebow!!… 9/26 136yds
Season review -- Raiders DL....Interesting Read But Grades Us At D+???
http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/raiders-talk/post/Season-review——Raiders-DL?blockID=630020&feedID=5885
And while the defense as a whole needs to be rebuilt, Mike Waufle’s unit needs the least amount of tweaking. Still, there are rumblings of the Raiders switching to a 3-4 base alignment next season. That would require major construction as most of the Raiders’ talent on the defensive side of the ball is in the front four.
Read more: Season review — Raiders DL
Tune to SportsNet Central at 6, 10:30 and midnight on Comcast SportsNet Bay Area for more on this story
Observations from Saturday's games:
49ers got what they paid for in Jim Harbough. He's a complete HC and his team plays hard for him. Shame Al Davis couldn't pull that trigger and bring him to the Raiders.
Late game: Sterling Moore plays a key role in the Pats secondary. In case anyone forgot, Moore was a standout for the Raiders during preseason. They cut him (twice, I believe) before the Pats signed him off our practice squad to their 53-man roster. He's been productive all season.
Easily the worst personnel move by the Raiders in a long time. Raiders had nobody to step up and take a role in their secondary this year.
Some off season thoughts...
Al Davis...
I have often argued that Al was negligent from the Gruden years through Shell II. During the Gruden years, Davis gave Allen and Gruden a free hand in that Davis was consumed by Oakland law suits. Lawsuits that Davis did not initiate. The city sued Davis merely for his refusal to renounce Los Angeles marketing rights.
During and after Shell II, Davis saw what the Raiders had become, and he set out to rebuild. (If you don't believe that he did, check the improving rosters between 2006 and the present.) The team again became competitive after an infusion of youthful talent and the hiring of Hue Jackson to rebuild the offense.
Davis died before the completion of that rebuild, but the talent looked promising.
When Davis died, Mark Davis determined that he needed to put his stamp on this team, sought out advisers and hired Reggie McKenzie to replace the football mind of his father.
While some mediots have reported that Davis was intimidated by his father and sought to remove all disciples of his father from the building, such reporting is absurd on it's face.
Every advisor that Mark Davis spoke to had a direct link with his father. Davis retains Amy Trask as the CFO. Reportedly the top candidate for the HC position is a former Raiders player. Davis leaves the history of the Raiders walking upright in Raiders' Central.
Much controversy erupted over the firing of Hue Jackson who restored the offense of the football team. The Defense remains struggling as it has for almost a decade.
But it is justified that McKenzie and Davis remove the assistant architects of the Al Davis rebuild. With the passing of Al Davis, McKenzie takes on the most high profile position in the league. In the end, there must not be confusion as to what was Al's and what is Reggie's. It is important to the future stability of the franchise that Mark Davis and Reggie McKenzie get credit for the restoration of the Raiders. If it is believed that resurgence comes from the pre death efforts of Al, there will be constant rumors and innuendos that the team will fall apart with the passing of time after Al's death.
This effort, however, comes with some risk. Unless McKenzie makes precisely the correct choice for HC, and the HC in turn hires the best possible coaching staff, we could find ourselves mired as a .500 team for quite some time.
I don't believe that McKenzie will simply choose the most high profile HC candidate available. He will choose someone who has never been an HC before. But it is also rumored that McKenzie believes, as I believe, that the Raiders do best when reaching back for their own. The Raiders best HCs were Madden and Flores, two coaches snagged from the Raider assistant coaching staff. It is currently reported that Cliff Branch may fill the vacant WR coaching position.
I think that's why Winston Moss is rumored to be at the top of the list. Moss played LB for the Raiders.
ny,
HOPEFULLY the addition of reggie will STOP bonehead decisions like that!
panty,
i confess - i want gruden back too. BUT i think he'd be even a better coach now without the aura of big al to stop him. gruden will put butts in the seats. that said, it's not gonna happen and i - as i'm sure most of you will agree that we DON'T want a retread like capers in here.
so instead, since our team is relatively young, i'm gonna pimp david shaw of stanford. that ain't gonna happen either but reggie acknowledged that this thing is might take time to build. so why not shaw? i believe he is the son of our former defensive coordinator willie shaw, was an assistant coach here for a while so he has familiarty with the raider org/way. we know he's a good leader - took his team to a bowl game. he was the passing game coordinator for harbaugh at usd/stanford so he has experience calling plays.
if not for HC, i hope they consider him for at least an OC interview.
DON'T BRING BACK GRUDEN!!!
Don't get me wrong. Gruden is a great designer of offenses, he's a pretty damn good play caller, and he's a great motivator. But that is not all there is to coaching.
Gruden is crappy at spotting undeveloped talent, and worse at developing that talent. His stints at BOTH Oakland and Tampa Bay prove that. In Oakland, he built a Super Bowl team by placing all the young talent on back burners, while bringing in aging super stars on the verge of retirement. The Raiders required a COMPLETE rebuild after his departure.
In Tampa Bay, Gurden took over a team already developed and ready for the Super Bowl. Then we all watched over the coming years as stars retired and under developed youth started losing football games.
No to Gruden. We have a very young team. I don't want to see that youth disbanded, I want to see them properly developed.
blanda,
i understand where you're coming from. the raiders were one of if not THE OLDEST teams in the league. BUT remember, al wanted to win RIGHT NOW! and how do you do that? waiting around for young people to develop? no! by bringing in proven vets ie: jerry rice to win RIGHT NOW. i'm sure gruden would still want to have say on his roster BUT with the balance of he and reggie, i'm sure it'll work out. but we all know it's not gonna happen so don't sweat it.
david shaw man! reggie, you don't need to drive the car, just kick the tires! here's a little story on the shaw family: http://espn.go.com/college-football/preview11/story/_/id/6897811/college-football-preview-david-shaw-fulfills-father-willie-shaw-dream-stanford
"Chuckie Cheeze" Wasn't Much In "TB" With All That Athority!!!
Career record 95–81–0 (Regular Season)
5–4 (Postseason)
100–85–0 (Overall)
With Raiders: 40–28
“TB”: 60-57
Do you see a pattern here???
The Raiders Ended His Career And Won't Reurect It Now!!!!
Going into December the Buccaneers were on pace to make the playoffs, claim a bye week and have home field advantage. However, the Buccaneers went winless in the month of December, in no small part due to a defensive collapse that saw the team give up an average of 30.75 points per game. On December 28 the Buccaneers were eliminated from making the playoffs by the Oakland Raiders, the team Gruden left for Tampa Bay. The Buccaneers ended the season with four losses in a row, and Jon Gruden was fired by the Buccaneers on January 16, 2009, after seven seasons with the team.
PantyRaider...Glad We Put Him To Rest!!!/_
espn had a picture of brady with the ball in his left hand, while his throwing hand was above his head, as woodson was making the hit.
this picture proves that brady was not passing, nor attempting to pass the ball because he was holding it in his left hand.
this proves my theory that the nfl did not want the raiders to win because al davis had 3 pending lawsuits against the league, and the last thing tagliabue wanted was to hand the lombardi to al.
i despise the patriots and tom brady. they are not who they are if the refs called that play right as a fumble. grrrr! that pissed me off this weekend seeing that again.
I have not checked the game summary, but I heard there were no penalties in the early game... Is that right?
Also, Sanits had no penalties yesterday (again, going on what I heard).
The Raiders have no excuse for breaking the NFL record. That, by itself, should be enough to fire a HC.
Today, I find myself in the unusual position of rooting for the Giants. A Packers loss will help expedite the Raider's process of hiring a new HC.
ummm, go Giants?!
With the Giants rolling over the Cheeseheads, the interviews of Moss, Capers, Philbin, and Perry can start as early as tomorrow.
Let the interview begin. I hope we have an HC in place by next week.
Let's get this new era of Raider football started!
Roy
Time to start raiding the Packers team now that they are out
Topher
Let pillage begin!
"if the Capers rumors were floated while Al was alive, this place would be going INSANE with rage."
**********************************
Not really.
a Capers rumor would be dismissed by every Raiders fan I know.
Why?
Capers is a defensive coach.
Al, since Madden, only hired offense side guys to be HC.
You can look it up.
I think the Packers offense was caught off-guard by a tragic loss to their OC, and a rusty WR corp (8 or more drops).
However, their defense has NO excuse. Players were sometimes out of position and they allowed Manning to dissect their secondary; which often overplayed their coverages by only rushing three players.
While I'm anxious to see who McKenzie turns to from the Packers’ coaching staff, I hope it's not Capers. I don't like the idea of a retread. IMO, he's another coach that pushes the limits of his skills just being a coordinator.
McKenzie has worked very close to these coaches, so I’m hoping he pulls the proverbial rabbit out of a hat for us.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Miami Dolphins interim coach Todd Bowles was the first person to interview for the Oakland Raiders' head-coaching vacancy this weekend, and sources said the session went well.
According to league sources, Bowles was assured the Raiders job isn't earmarked for longtime Green Bay Packers assistant coach Winston Moss, whom many have linked to the job.
Bowles, whom the Dolphins would like to keep as defensive coordinator -- if not their head coach -- has strong ties to new Raiders general manager Reggie McKenzie. The Raiders announced the dismissal of coach Hue Jackson on Tuesday, the same day they introduced McKenzie as their GM.
Bowles also is a candidate for the Minnesota Vikings' defensive coordinator position, according to sources. Dolphins players have told me they strongly support Bowles to be their coach.
The Raiders also want to interview Packers defensive coordinator Dom Capers and offensive coordinator Joe Philbin, according to sources. Philbin, like Bowles, has interviewed for the Miami job
This comment has been removed by the author.
Uncertainty reigns for Tebow after Broncos' playoff loss
LoL!!...Really??...I hear Elway will get crucified trying to get rid of him???
Some will say order has been restored after Saturday's inarguable New England dominance, a truth that could be proven as much by Brady's ridiculously strong performance as Tebow's obviously inadequate one. No doubt, the Patriots belong in the AFC Championship Game. No doubt, the Denver Broncos do not.
LoL!!!..."Do NOT" is putting it mildly!!!
Panty,
“But Moss, who also carries the title of assistant head coach, is a candidate for the St. Louis Rams’ vacant head coaching job.”
Not sure where you got this info, but according to published reports Jeff Fisher has accepted the HC position with St. Louis.
We should see the coaching search accelerate now that the Midgets have eliminated the Cheesehead Factory. One would wonder though, why Moss is retained. Someone in GB really must like him. Which could mean the only position we could offer him is HC.
While this is a quarterback driven league, five of the eight teams that played over the weekend got there because of their defense. The top four defenses ALL made the playoffs and five of the top seven. With all the talk about Andy Dalton in Cincy, they had the seventh rated defense and the twentieth rated offense. While the top rated offenses also made the playoffs, solid defense normally will keep you in the game and carry you farther. JMNLHO.
NYRaider,
Don’t get overly exorcised about those penalty statistics. It is well known that in the post-season the refs call fewer penalties and they tend to “let the teams play.” This according to John Madden. I've heard him mention it on more than one occasion while in the booth. And, quite frankly, it pisses me off. If it’s not a penalty in the playoffs it shouldn’t be a penalty in regular season. The reverse is also true. If it’s a penalty in regular season, it should still be a penalty in post-season.
I’m not offering any excuses for our record setting year. I’m just stating something that has bugged me for at least a couple of decades. You shouldn’t have a different MO in playoffs. In the game you site, New Orleans had zero penalties and the Whiners had 3. Their season averages were 5.7 for the Aints and 6.8 for the Whiners. It doesn’t make sense NO would suddenly go with zero penalties.
In every single game this weekend, every team had fewer penalties than their yearly average. Six of the eight teams had right at half the regular season number with two of the teams coming in at zero. During the regular season these teams would have combined for 46 penalties based on their individual averages. Over the weekend it was only 19 for all four games. You don’t just flip a switch and have that many teams play that much better all on the same weekend against each other. At least not in my no longer humble opinion.
While I agree we need to reduce the penalties I, for one, would like to see the league do something to make officiating more consistent regular and post-season. It would at least give us a fighting chance to have everyone singing from the same hymnal.
In fact, here’s a link to an article where the league basically admits to being inconsistent in officiating.
http://tinyurl.com/7ppgfmm
While their solution of ten full-time refs leaves a lot to be desired, at least they are admitting there’s a problem in this area, and this is a start.
Now, in retrospect it may be a blessing in disguise that we did not make the playoffs. Had we done so and then upset the Squealers, McKenzie’s hands may have been somewhat tied. Also, the GM search may have been delayed until this weekend and we might have lost him to Chicago.
This should be an interesting week for residents of Raiderland. Interviews, rumors and speculations run amok.
H
Well, I mentioned that three of the four teams could have been in the championship games with bottom ranked defenses, but only one made it (NE.) I wouldn't make too much out of it, because lets face it, the 49ers made it on a prayer, and Balt did by default because Hous was also a great defense and no offense.
The only game I got to watch very closely was the Balt game, and Ed Reed almost won that game on his own. Its such a pleasure watching a FS that doesn't wait until AFTER the ball is thrown to react to the play (something that the Raiders FS's have been doing for so long, it makes me cringe.)
One thing worth mentioning is I wonder with McKenzie making ALL the personnel decisions for here on out, it might limit our ability to attract top-notch coaches? Isn't that one of the things that drove the IAAFers crazy about Al? Who would want to caoch here if you never get to pick your players?
BTW... I still don't know about the GB defensive coaches getting promotions... the only well coached defense playing last night was on the Giants side of the ball from what I saw.
"H"...
That's why my comments were deleted...They were from a very old source from "09" before "GB" switched to the 3-4...Moss was being considered for the job at that time...
LoL!!...It said all the "GB" "D" staff had been fired except Moss...
On another board someone posted the article and I read it without looking at the dates...Than later when someone noticed the dates they posted what it was....LoL!!!...By than I had already passed in on...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3811283
Re Giants: Among the tires kicked by Davis was Kevin Gilbride's, the OC for the Giants. I think that pick would be ripe.
There are potential candidates available, also, in Baltimore. Especially if you're looking for defense minded coaches. While the GB loss should speed up our HC search, it could still wind up waiting until after the Super Bowl.
Shefter (who broke the news that Hue Jackson was let go) is reporting that the Raiders are interviewing the Doncos' two Coordinators: Dennis Allen (Defensive Coordinator) and Mike McCoy (Offensive Coordinator).
I'd rather have Dennis Allen, thanks.
Gary,
“One thing worth mentioning is I wonder with McKenzie making ALL the personnel decisions for here on out, it might limit our ability to attract top-notch coaches.”
Not sure where you are coming from on that. McKenzie said he wanted his guy for HC. McKenzie also stated the HC would be able to assemble his own staff. I’m sure McKenzie will take care of the contract negotiations, but the HC assembles his assistants. He stated so in his press conference. Players are a different matter. Someone in the draft room has to have final say because of the different opinions.
True enough Blanda. However, I expect the interviews to start this week with the elimination of four teams.
Nate, I’d go with Allen also. Leave McCoy in Denver.
H
"Dolphins interview Broncos OC McCoy next in coaching search"....Ya!!!...If You Can Make Tebow Win Than Ya!!!....You Could be A "HC"!!!
The Miami Dolphins were scheduled to interview Denver Broncos offensive coordinator Mike McCoy for their vacant head-coaching position Monday morning, according to a league source.
McCoy has gained traction as a possible head coach after his innovative work with quarterback Tim Tebow this season, converting the Broncos offense into a scheme that emphasized Tebow’s strength via a zone-read attack.
IMO, the coaching options under McKenzie are wide open compared to anything in the past.
McKenzie's approach is vastly different than Davis' approach in so many ways. There are no coach or player scholarships moving forward. The HC picks his own staff. McKenzie plans to expand the scotting dept. and better define the layers (chain of command) in the organizational heirarchy.
The only similarilty that I see is that McKenzie should have final say on personnel... somebody at the top has to. Can't have HCs writing checks without knowledge of the business end.
If McKenzie is, in fact, interviewing all the assistant coaches and HC candidates that he is reported, his approach is already vastly different.
if you believe that the cone-o-silence kept us from knowing all the candidates that Davis interviewed before he hired guys like White, Shell, Turner, et al, than you have to at least agree the overall transparency of the process is now changed.
Raiders will interview both Broncos coordinators
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/16/raiders-will-interview-both-broncos-coordinators/
The Raiders have received permission to interview Broncos defensive coordinator Dennis Allen and offensive coordinator Mike McCoy for their head coaching vacancy, ESPN’s Adam Schefter is reporting.
It’s an interesting strategy from Raiders owner Mark Davis and G.M. Reggie McKenzie. It makes sense from a competitive standpoint to consider bringing in coaches from the team ahead of them in the standings, but it may also be a tactic designed at gathering intelligence on a division rival.
If that’s what it is, it sounds like a strategy that Al Davis would love.
Re: Leading league in penalties... remember... these silly statisticians never point out that number 2, 3, and etc are Right behind us... and Just Win, Baby is NOT based on "classy clean" play... but a shot to the chops that causes a blink, a pause, a fear, and a score... all we need to do is exchange three offsides for one unnecessary roughness once in awhile and Just Win Baby formula will WORK!
I trump the lead in penalties with the lead in big plays over 20 yds....We're #1 which is why I would like to retain Al Saunders as "OC"...
Unfortunately that b#1 also applied to the "D" giving up the big plays as well???
PantyRaider...No Tears Here Just Cheers!!!/_
"Raiders interested in Broncos coordinators; Saints OC interviews"
ESPN’s Adam Schefter also said that the Raiders interviewed New Orleans Saints offensive coordinator Pete Carmichael Jr. last Friday, soon after Carmichael arrived in the Bay Area for his team’s NFC Divisional Playoff game against the 49ers.
Carmichael Jr. presided over the league’s top-ranked offense this season, which has sent his stock soaring.
Raiders | Hue Jackson says he's not responsible for Carson Palmer trade
Mon, 16 Jan 2012 11:28:06 -0800
Former Oakland Raiders head coach Hue Jackson said during a radio interview that he was not responsible for the team trading for QB Carson Palmer and only got the two teams in touch with each other. Jackson said the whole organization is responsible for the trade.
Read more: http://www.kffl.com/team/28/nfl/oakland-raiders#ixzz1jf8LCVP1
Before comparing the Al Davis approach to the Reggie McKenzie approach, I'd wait to see some semblance of GM work first.
The only thing to gauge McKenzie on so far is that he fired Hue, and his search has been, apparently, more transparent. I say apparently because Al worked in the league for 60 years. There are choices that Davis could dismiss out of hand, because he knew everyone in the league. And if he didn't know them personally, he knew someone who did.
It's very natural that McKenzie would call more coaches in than Davis did.
Everything is going to be a mystery this off season. The only way we'll know if there is progress is by the performance on the field come the 2012 season.
H.. I was referring to mckenzie picking all his own players... and having final say. That's pretty much something I heard iaafers whine about for years with Al... I guess it should not suddenly be off the table now that we have someone everyone seems to like.
No HC really has the power to hire and fire players at will. They go to the GM, tell him what they want, and the GM delivers. While Gruden, at one point, complained that he didn't have such power, he hadn't earned it. He had only delivered two winning seasons out of four.
There are only two coaches I know of who have ever been given such power. One was Parcells in every HC job after NY, and the other was Holmgren in Seattle. Also, virtually every former Raider HC who has spoken on the subject says that Davis almost always provided any player who was requested. Such was the case when Gruden asked Davis to sign Gannon.
The issue with Raider HCs wasn't their ability to get the players they wanted, it was to get the assistant coaches they wanted.
Davis insisted that some former Raider players always be kept on the staff. I believe that Davis thought it very important to keep guys like Freddie and Willy if he was going to bring in HCs from outside the organization.
McKenzie has stated very plainly that he will differ with Davis on that issue. HCs will be in charge of hiring their own staff. So, essentially, our entire coaching staff has been fired, pending the arrival of a new HC. Whoever that is will decide if any stay, but my guess is that we will be looking at an entirely new coaching staff, from top to bottom.
That one issue will likely inspire more coaches to want to come here. I think, in the past, many coaches were worried that assistant coaches would feel they owed their job to Davis and not the HC. That's where their loyalties would lie as well.
Blanda
David Dunn might differ with your notion of a Raider HC not having the power to get rid of a player. I do agree that the new GM/HC symbiosis might take some time for us to realize. I also think that we need to keep our expectations managed as we are essentially starting from scratch.
The raiders will continue their losing ways, when you have no direction from the top you have a commitment to losing, the new boss is just like the old boss, doesn't know how to contend in the modern football era.
It seems every indication is McKenzie is willing to blow up the team to build a long term winner.
The Raiders have fired two coaches the last two seasons for going 8-8, but they may lose the playoffs-or-bust mentality next year.
Owner Mark Davis and new general manager Reggie McKenzie want to build something long-lasting, and with the looming restructuring of the personnel department and a high player payroll, they realize that may take time.
"Mark Davis has told me that he wants long-term success, and we're going to start it right now," McKenzie said. "To begin, we're going to have to build. That's where our mind-set is."
The first step is putting in a structure, one different from late owner Al Davis calling all the shots, and McKenzie this week handed Mark Davis a chart of how the front office should look. The next steps are filling those jobs and hiring a new coach, Oakland's seventh in the past 10 seasons.
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/01/11/SP451MNLGQ.DTL#ixzz1jh3SvatC
I expect HUGE changes... McFadden and Palmer gone for draft picks... etc etc.
This is prolly the right step LONG TERM.
Kinda sucks for us that think this team isn't that far off...
McKenzie has said in the past that he would hire Moss as his head coach if he got the opportunity.
"Moss says he’s all ears when it comes to Raiders"....This Guy Wan't To Be Here And Will Stay!!!
"If the Raiders were to call and ask, I’ll be ready to speak with them," Moss told the Associated Press, one day after the Packers were eliminated from the NFC Playoffs by the New York Giants. "But nothing’s changed from last week. I feel good where I’m at. If there’s an opportunity that comes up in the future, we’ll probably cross that bridge at that time. But at this present time, right now, not a lot to talk about."
"At the time, Al Davis was there, Art Shell was my coach," Moss said. "And we had good times. I had some of my better times as a player in the National Football League with the Raiders. Whatever I’ve taken from the past with the Raiders, and Al Davis not being there anymore, you’ve got to say going forward that it’s going to be different.
"It’s going to be different from the standpoint of, Reggie wants to go in a new direction, so I’ll sit down and speak with Reggie to get his vision, what direction he wants the organization to go in. That’s going to play a lot in to it."
"There’s always opportunities to put yourself in the same position as a head coach would and see how you would do things or what you would change or what you would add or what you would take away," Moss said. "So with that being said, I’ve done that, I feel good about the vision, the goals, the beliefs that can be instilled within an organization that would give me the opportunity to be a head coach."
PantyRaider....Com'on Reggie Get This Done!!!
"HC"...........Winston Moss
"DC"...........Todd Bowles
"OC"...........Al Saunders
Gary....
I don't really see that happening the way you paint it...At least I don't want to see it that way???
We have half a team now...The "O" and I expect this team to move forwards with what we already have...Anything short of this is just stupid!!!!....You have the fans back in the seats so now keep them there by winning!!!
Than you can build slowly as you go along for the long term...
"BR" -n- Gary...
Your right...All this talk is just "BS" vomited up by a bunch of damn "Mediot"s and now they back off for Reggie while the stupid fans do the same???
Talk about being manipulated!!!!
They played you boyz like Banjo!!!
"NYR"...
What will you be posting if Reggie does as Gary posted and "Blows Up This Team"???
Thus sending us into a tailspin for a season or 2 until we recover enough to start winning???
Will you be hanging Reggie from the Yards and wanting to Keelhaul him like you did Al Davis???
Without a doubt!!!....You all will!!!
PantyRaider...I Don't Believe That's What Will Happen!!!/_
Anyone doing cartwheels for this hiring should get used to a few more mediocre years... I am saying this now.
REPEAT AFTER ME IAAFERS....
There could be two more years of 8-8 or worse.... there could be two more years of 8-8 or worse, there could be two more years of 8-8 or worse...
Anyone banging their fists on the ground because we stink for a few more years better put some big-boy pants on.... this is what you wanted!
PR... think about everything McKenzie has said so far... he LOVES draft picks... and wants something long-lasting.
Davis also said he will be "patient."
What does he have to offer to get draft picks besides McF and Palmer?
Veldeer maybe? Wiz?
This team could be nothing like it was last year. No player is safe IMO.
"BR" -n- Gary...
One other point:
Although Reggie has said the new "HC" will be allowed to hire all his own assistants it may not be without some input by Reggie...
This could be because he hires his man who is also a former Raider....Like Moss...And Moss is willing to keep a few pieces in place on the "O" -n- "ST"s for stability so we can win now....This would also take huge pressure off his new "D" and give him time to rebuild it...
This would just be smart football...
When you already have a top 10 "O" with all those young guns why would you scrap it for the unknown???
So I'm pimping that he keeps:
"OC"...Al Saunders
"OL" -n- Bob Wylie -n- Wiz
"TE"S ?? Adam Henry
"RB"s ?? Kelly Skipper
"WR"s New
"QB"s New
"STC" John Fassel
On the "D" who's worth keeping???
"DL" Mike Waufle
Squad Development Willie Brown ???
"LB"s ?? Greg Biekert -n- Ricky Hunley
"S"s ?? Kevin Ross
"CB"s ?? Rod Woodson
We have to also take into consideration the availability of assistants who are worth bringing in this 1st season...That can always change as new coaches become available later....This process doesn't have to be reconstructed from the ground floor in one freakin season...It could span 2-3 seasons as a process while we continue to be competitive as a football team...
Palmer is our man and both Marc -n- Reggie have signed off on that...
We have Pryor in the #2...Our "WR" core is young and good as are our "RB"s...We have good depth at "TE"...The "OL" has some good young talent but needs to be added to...
How the hell can we rebuild that "D" is we sacrifice the "O" core we already have???...This is just way too stupid to even consider and what coach would want to come in here is this was the plan??...
NO!!!....Stability in the "O" -n- "ST"s as we concentrate on building a new "D"!!!
PantyRaider....At Least I'm Hope That To be The Case!!!!/_
Panty Raider said:
"NYR"...
What will you be posting if Reggie does as Gary posted and "Blows Up This Team"???
Thus sending us into a tailspin for a season or 2 until we recover enough to start winning???
Gary said:
"REPEAT AFTER ME IAAFERS....
There could be two more years of 8-8 or worse....
there could be two more years of 8-8 or worse,
there could be two more years of 8-8 or worse..."
Wow! Are you guys going to start a "Raiders Suck! chant, too?
Talk about doom and gloom.
BR said: "The only thing to gauge McKenzie on so far is that he fired Hue, and his search has been, apparently, more transparent."
More transparent? That's it?
The list of potential candidates McKenzie is tied to and/or actually plans to interview is growing exponentially. We’re not talking about a who’s who of retreads. There are many up and coming coaches in the mix. Also, the expeditious manner in which this is being conducted is unprecedented for the Raiders.
Looks like some folks here don’t want to let go of the past. They don’t accept the fact that there might be a better way to run the Raiders than the way that resulted in nine straight seasons without a winning record.
Talk about doom and gloom.
Looks to me like McKenzie is on the case.
Gary,
What's with all the negative waves?
I don't think McKenzie is saying we won't win next season. I think we have as good a shot as any team in the west to win the division.
My interpretation is to win consistently it takes time to build the proper foundation. Plus, he doesn’t have a lot to work with in the draft this year which is where he likes to build. To be honest, we used to do a hell of a lot of that back when we had ten to fourteen rounds in the draft. Free agency, thirty-two teams and a seven round draft have put a pretty good kink in that process.
He wants the fans to have realistic expectations.
Latest word is we are going to interview Pete Carmichael the OC for New Orleans. That’s fine, but I’m very interested in what we are going to do on the defensive side of the ball. Whoever the new HC is, that needs to be a top priority. I’m not a fan of teams that live and die by outscoring the opposition and throwing the ball every down. Ask Dan Fouts how many SB's he won doing that.
The Giants had some injury problems with their RB’s and on defense early on. So, they had to ride on Eli’s shoulders and he came through for them. For the playoffs they are healthier on defense and have both RB’s back.
H
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I'm just glad that something really crazy has not happened, like, I dunno, "Disney Buys The Raiders" or something like that. Son of Davis hands off to Madden, option play is in the works now... this could be the beginning of really, really good football. I'm willing to patiently watch this team grow, because I'll still be here in 2022, and, as a long-term thinker, I'd like to see two or three more Lombardi's on the shelf by then. It's possible now. BTW, this is the logo that was. i believe, only used in 1963, after just three years without the shield. It's been as it is right now since 1964, and I hope that if they tweek anything, imagewise, that it's not too dramatic, but new leadership often likes to put their stamp on an organization. I would not be surprised if more things change, but, so long as the play improves... well, like the ol' saying goes... "The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves!!!" Semper Fidelis, Raider Nation. Hold Fast...
"Raiders set to interview Broncos OC McCoy"
Denver Broncos offensive coordinator Mike McCoy will interview with Oakland Raiders on Wednesday for their vacant head-coaching position, according to a league source.
"NYR"....
Evidently Reggie learned a few things from Al Davis and is going to do likewise....As per this:
"the Raiders interviewed New Orleans Saints offensive coordinator Pete Carmichael Jr. last Friday, soon after Carmichael arrived in the Bay Area for his team’s NFC Divisional Playoff game against the 49ers."
But you didn't know that until you saw my comments on it today....3 days after the fact!!!...So that "Cone-o-Silence" remains somewhat intact and info is still on a need to know basis....Raggie ain't doing the talking...He ain't that damn "Transparent"!!!
And you never knew what Al Davis did...Who he interview or when...Let alone how...Phone/Conference Call/Personal Trip/Airport Meetings/In Person Visit/Interview Conducted By His Agent/"OHP"!!!
So stop with the "BS" bad mouthing about what the man did or didn't do to your satisfaction!!!
PantyRaider....Go Get'em Reggie!!!/_
"Looks like some folks here don’t want to let go of the past. They don’t accept the fact that there might be a better way to run the Raiders than the way that resulted in nine straight seasons without a winning record."......
Not only that, they are claiming that Reggie is running it the same way Mr.Davis did because of a letter, or something. Then you have a guy who claims after 2/ 8-8 seasons that the "Raiders are right there", as in, just inches away from a SB victory. And that we will all now have to suffer another 8-8 season because the stupid new GM wants to build for the future. Like "building for the future" is just dumb. Either these guys are really stupid, or, they are just trolling to get reactions to satisfy their childish needs. Soon, you will see the 'lapdog' and the "adults are talking" quotes again. These numbskulls have no clue, they have proven it over a span of yrs on this site. Whatever the numbskulls are writing, believe the opposite.
JONES
"And you never knew what Al Davis did...Who he interview or when...Let alone how..."
Perhaps, but he still ended up with a turnstile of horrible retread coaches and coaches he couldn't maintain a working relationship with.
Not sure I would call it "badmouthing;" more like an unfortunate truth.
I am saying we are a healthy McFadden, a real DC, and a FA safety and LB away from making a VERY strong SB push next year... I see no reason at all to blow the team up and start over. I think this is realistic.
I am saying if he does blow up the team, I don't want to hear any bitching from the people doing cartwheels about the McKenzie hiring.
If he doesn't, I am fine with whatever HC he brings in... you won't hear any bitching from me.
If he blows up the team, I could care less what HC he brings in... we are back to sucking again for a few more years.
I'd put the odds of him blowing up the team just for sake of doing it at 50/50... maybe 70/30 if he isn't sold on Palmer.
These are very realistic expectations. Corkran hinted at the same thing in his live blog.
"I'd put the odds of him blowing up the team just for sake of doing it at 50/50... maybe 70/30 if he isn't sold on Palmer.
These are very realistic expectations. Corkran hinted at the same thing in his live blog.".....
Obviously, you are a poor listener or you just don't want to know the message, or you are just trolling for reaction. McKenzie has already said he likes Palmer, already said the team has some good talent, but, if he can improve any position, he will do it. Does that sound like he wants to "blow up the team for the sake of doing it"? And why is it, that whatever column a writer puts out, must now be taken very seriously as 'matter of fact'? Who cares what Cork writes, how many times did these guys do hit pieces on Mr.Davis and you 'members' were just so disgusted? But now they are gospel? Get your head out of your ass, please.
JONES
"Not sure I would call it "badmouthing;" more like an unfortunate truth."
Excellent point, pointing out facts is allowed and those who want to silence those facts have an agenda. Mark Davis, Reggie Mckenzie have basically said the same thing. Ron Wolf also said the "structure was broken"....it's just a fact and those who still deny it....again, whatever the numbskulls write, believe the opposite.
JONES
Im ok with 9-7 next yr... playoffs... title.... maybe SB in 2013... 2015. Lets hope for the best and enjoy this bloomin onion... I saw mediocrity with Campbell under center, pretty sure Im not alone in that... I dont expect huge things this year, but, one never knows!!! Realistic optimism works in all things, including fandom.
Gary...
I don't like it...Reverse it!!...LoL!!!
How about 30-70 that he "Blows Up The Team"!!!...
I just can't believe anyone would be that damn dumb!!!
"NYR"...
You can pimp Reggie without downgrading Mr Davis...It's really quite simple...
I like what Reggie brings to the table and it looks like the has his heart and mind on this team as he wastes no time looking threw all the possibilities for the next Raiders "HC"!!!...
Nuff said!!!...
You don't need to add:
"Unlike that other guy who did this or that"!!!....
That's known as "Hating on someone"...Get it???...
So we all know how you hated on Mr Davis in his life but there's really NO reason to keep beating that damn drum now in his death...Let his memory rest in peace respectfully!!!....
Go ahead and acknowledge that he made an effort and as we all do made some mistakes but that his accomplishments far out weigh the last few years of diminished returns...
Now ask yourself why the hell is that so damn difficult for you???..
Not to mention that your NOT willing to hold Reggie of any other owner/"GM" to the same scrutiny that you pimped Mr Davis failed to live up to....
PantyRaider....The Man Has Earned That Much From You!!!/_
1 more point of the 'press'. Remember the article from CSN that said Hue was staying because he and Reggie had the same agent? Then those same types described earlier, jumped all over it "see, he is staying, told ya so". It's funny that these types still act as if they have bigtime credibility, when in fact, over a period of years, they have proven over and over that they have no credibility. The proof is in the pudding and there is plenty of pudding.
JONES
Would someone tell me where the quote is that says he is going to "blow up" the team?
He said he is going to evaluate each member of the team. He stated he wants to take his time. That the last thing he wants to do is release someone who might be a pro bowl player some day.
He has to decide which free agents stay and which go. And, how he can work out all this with the upcoming salary cap.
Now, please tell me how that indicates he will be blowing up the team?
We might lose a couple of fairly good players because of age, injury history or they just won't fit under the cap. That's a normal off season now.
Atlanta has 17 FA's this year. They only plan on keeping 8-9 of them.
Why don't we see who the coach is first and stop wrining our hands over something that is 6-7 weeks down the road for now.
Right now I like what I see. I'll go with that for now.
H
How bout those who write that Mr.Davis is still running the team after his passing? That a 'letter' is the foundation of the team today? If people are going to argue that McKenzie is messing things up and he has only had the job for a couple of weeks...then in the next breath say that the Org is being run the way Mr.Davis wanted because he wrote it in document before his passing....can't have it both ways. What happened in the past is still being brought out to the open and it shows that the Org was not being run in a fashion that was conducive to winning. This according to Mr.Davis' own son and the current GM along with Wolf. Tough pill to swallow for those who thought Mr.Davis could do no wrong. Just the way it is, deal with it.
JONES
"I saw mediocrity with Campbell under center, pretty sure Im not alone in that..."
Funny, very same view as Jethro, what a suprise, you 2 are like 1 pea in a pod.
JONES
H.. he also said how much he loves draft picks, and how does he acquire them WITHOUT "blowing up the team???"
We aren't going to get a first rounder by trading DHB... it would be McF and or/ Palmer. Nobody else on the team has a plug-nickle's worth of value.
Look.. maybe he just said that matter-of-factly, and is not interested in taking two steps back to build a SB team the way GB did (through the draft).
I am just saying its possible.
Here's where I get to use the IAAFers mantra: I HOPE I AM WRONG.
I will have to check the Corkran blog to see if he is hearing any insider gossip on this...
Campbell wasn't "mediocre?"
What, 6 years in the NFL, 31-39 record, QB rating 82.8 career... no playoff games, no pro-bowls?
I'd say this has "mediocre" written all over it.
He's not great. He doesn't suck.
I'd put him in the middle of the 32 starting QB's.
Where would you put him, JONES?
Up there with Brady??
"You can pimp Reggie without downgrading Mr Davis...It's really quite simple..."
Again, my intention is not to degrade Al Davis. It's a simple truth that the best way to correct your failuers is study them and learn from them.
I find the current process of hiring a GM and quickly interviewing HC candidates from a wide spectrum of football disciplines is in stark contrast to what we know about the Raiders in their past.
Add to that, the new HC will have final say on his entire staff... again in stark contrast to what we know about the Raiders history.
Changing the system is the only way to correct it. It's just a shame it took so long.
It's extremely unfortunate, but this process probably could have never happened while Davis was alive. That's a real shame!
So let's see, Gary is now answering for OTB who writes and says the same things as Jethro...hmmmmm. Is that you 3 are like 1 pea in a pod?
JONES
"Where would you put him, JONES?
Up there with Brady??"
Don't you ever get tired of playing childish games? I never made one point about Campbell in anyway, but you refuse the points I did make, hmmmm....stop trolling for reaction and be sincere, for once. It would make for much better discussion, or are you here just create bullshit?
JONES
Jason Campbell showed up and, apparently, did his best. I would like to think that he would be our "Vince Evans" behind Palmer, who, to me, deserves a little more time... I'll be disappointed if Campbell starts again, unless he earns it and stops acting like Purple Drank with the press... dude might have sleep apnea like Russell did. Wake up! PS Jones, fifteen yards for unblogsmanlike conduct.
McKenzie will NOT blow up the team. There is a lot of YOUNG TALENT here. You build long term goals with YOUNG TALENT. If you trade away our young talent for draft picks, you get more young talent. You still have to develop them. McKenzie will ADD to the team through free agency. Further, you're not going to blow up the team unless the HC has some say in it. The talent we have here is part of what would attract a good HC.
McKenzie is happy with Palmer, and we wouldn't get much in trade for McFadden. He has to prove he can play more than half a season first. We'd get far more for Moore, put he'll stay put.
And just to throw this in... Everybody here expects the Raiders to do things vastly different from now on. Al Davis used to run the whole show, and now he doesn't.
It's fair to argue that Al Davis did amazing things with a one man organization, but such structures have become impossible in the NFL. It's fair to argue that that has been true for twenty years. But it is certain that it is impossible now. There is simply no one capable of doing it.
From now on, the Raiders will be run like most other well run (hopefully) organizations in football. A quiet owner who lets the professionals do their job, a General Manager who manages generally, and a Head Coach fully in charge of the game day product.
However one feels about Al Davis, we should laud his success and know that the world will not see his like again. We can think of Al Davis the way we think of Abe Lincoln. He was a great man, but he wouldn't currently make a great president. And, in the end, Al Davis died the way he would have wanted. At the head of the organization he created.
Personally, I mourn his passing. The Raiders will never be the same. To me, it's kind of like watching the season with the replacement players (scabs) during the strike year. It's the same uniforms, but...
To that degree, it makes the medicine go down more easily having lost for the last several years. It also makes it easier with McKenzie's and Davis' determination to stack the organization with Raiders. Go Raiders!
Gary,
"he also said how much he loves draft picks, and how does he acquire them WITHOUT "blowing up the team???""
He makes the best of what he has and brings in some FA's to make us competitive for now until we get to a point where we have our picks.
If he does trade McFadden for a first round pick and we keep Bush, it won't hurt my feelings. McFadden has a lot of talent, but he has yet to answer the bell for an entire season. He doesn't help the team if he's in the trainers room.
H
Well, Corkran just got done saying there's a chance of the unthinkable happening. I happen to agree with him.
...quote....
Steve Corkran:
Al Davis tried to win every year. That was part of what endeared him to players and fans. However, McKenzie might be faced with the stark reality that he needs to take a step back in the short term to move forward in the long-term.
...end quote....
The only player I see gambling on with any worth is McFadden.
He also mentioned Wash MIGHT be interested in trading for Palmer... pass the popcorn!
"Jones, fifteen yards for unblogsmanlike conduct"...
OTB, 16 game suspension for impersonating a Raider fan. Take your alias, how ever many, with you.
JONES
>>>>
If he does trade McFadden for a first round pick and we keep Bush, it won't hurt my feelings. McFadden has a lot of talent, but he has yet to answer the bell for an entire season. He doesn't help the team if he's in the trainers room.
>>>>
Well agreed... and thats why he might get traded. But I keep going back to CWood before he left. Everyone though he was injury prone too...
To me, the only injuries I really worry about with RB's are knees and hips.
Name a person that had to retire because he keeps getting foot injuries??
If we trade him and he leads the league in rushing next year... I will be one pissed off Raider fan.
BTW.. Cork just mentioned that Moss had a McClain like incident with TB involving pointing a gun at a waitress... not sure what to think of that. It was 1991, but wondering if its a character issue.. just what we need, a thug as HC.
Didn't Stevie also say that he would bet the farm that Hue was staying? Who cares what the media says, they are right as much as the "...." is, so I wouldn't bet all your kernels on what Stevie has to say.
If Palmer is traded, then McKenzie will have something else in place. Reggie is 10 steps ahead, he won't make a move unless it improves the team. He will make moves that will continue to stabilize the team. Mark Davis is patient, Reggie doesn't have to be desperate. The comment that a .500 team for 2 years is inches away from the SuperBowl is desperate, business will no longer be done in a desperate manner, capice?
JONES
Just got caught up on Raider Cast and heard an interesting piece from McKenzie himself. Stated that Thompson from GB would not let him go unless McKenzie had full authority in Oakland, if not, Thompson would consider it a lateral move.
Clements is signed until next year so he stays in gb.
...quote....
Comment From Steven Spielberg
Carson Palmer trade for a first round or second pick. Is this possible?
1:01
Steve Corkran:
Yes, that's possible.
...end quote....
If McKenzie really wants draft picks he could trade Mcf and Palmer for a couple of number ones... resign Campbell and Bush at no cost of draft picks, and roll the dice.
I can see this happening. Discuss why I am wrong...
gary,
i'm for trading mcfadden too IF it gets us a good return. i don't think we'll get anything higher than a 2nd for him. thing about woodson was that he was always hurt when he was with us, same with dmac. woodson went on to the packers. it kind of makes me wonder if he was just collecting a paycheck here. why all of a sudden is he having more success there? i'm not saying he faked his injuries but maybe he was looking for a better situation. could dmac be the same type? i can tell you guys this - there is no way we're getting a 1st round pick for dmac... the guy as h pointed out hasn't even played a whole season...
PLEASE not deer in the headlights campbell!
i'd rather they play pryor!
"Comment From Steven Spielberg
Carson Palmer trade for a first round or second pick. Is this possible?
1:01
Steve Corkran:
Yes, that's possible."
Trading the whole Raider team for draft picks is possible, does it mean it will happen? Many things are possible, so what? What is your point? Or are you just giggling away because you are getting responses? Some people just aren't sincere, now that is a shame.
JONES
"Didn't Stevie also say that he would bet the farm that Hue was staying?"
He also dialed up a blowout win for the Raiders against SD. It kind of pissed me off that he thought the SD game was a slam dunk. No sure things, as we well know... he should too! IMO, stuff like that reflects badly on his credibility.
No need to make wide predictions, just report the facts.
I miss J-Mac doing that blog.
>>>>
there is no way we're getting a 1st round pick for dmac..
>>>
With his upside?
Anyone that has ever seen him play healthy knows he could easily be one of the best RBs in the game. Hell, they made him a pro-bowl alternate for a reason after playing a few games... the guy is as explosive as Bo Jackson.
He is EASILY worth a late first rounder. Top 15 first rounder? Prolly not.
...Jones, I saw your sense of humor at a garage sale, do you want it back? It was pretty banged up, want it back? Life's a doozy without one. I'll ship it to ya, no prob... :-)
"Didn't Stevie also say that he would bet the farm that Hue was staying?"
I don't remember that AT ALL.
Maybe you are thinking of the guy that discounted the reports that Hue had to re-interview for his job because they had the same agent?
Cork missed on the SD game, and also that the Raiders would make the playoffs, but I like people that swing for the fences. JMAC is very good also... the Raiders are fortunate to have two very good beat writers.
Poor Jonesy doesn't seem to like it he is not the center of attention... darn.
"Poor Jonesy doesn't seem to like it he is not the center of attention... darn."......
Nope, just don't like insincere people like yourself and the OTB character. Just trolling sites looking for reactions to satisfy their weird desires. Like I said, you didn't even address any of the points I laid out and then you tried to make a false statement that I was saying that Campbell was in Brady territory. That is insincere and it just shows your character. That is a slight on you, not me, look in the mirror.
JONES
Mornhinweg now? Is McKenzie sand-bagging this process so when he hires Moss he will look great in comparison?
BTW... the clock is ticking on Breshnahan being retained as our DC... he is supposed to be let go of his job by today.
Can we get Al back now? lol Just kidding actually.
folks,
i'm for trading dmac but NOT palmer. a bad carson palmer is easily a hell of a lot better than cambell oh=n his BEST career day!
besides, we already lost a 1st and a 2nd rounder for him so we might as well get all we can out of him.
gary,
i'll take that mid to late 1st rounder for dmac!
Scorpio...
"PLEASE not deer in the headlights campbell!
i'd rather they play pryor!"
Exactly Bro!!...No way we go back to that crap!!!
Gary....
Nice job of stirring the pot...But here's why your wrong:
Cockran ain't a "Football God"....He's just a damn "Mediot" and at times NOT a very smart one!!!!...So look to something else for support...
As for Reggie and that trade talk...It's all very kool if you understand what it now does with the approaching "FA" period and Draft...It goes in the ear of every other Owner/"GM"/"HC" who is interested in one of our players and incites them to talk Trades!!!...
Reggie ain't so dumb...He knows what he's doing and he speaks what he wants to promote the potential activity he desires and also to hide where he is really going???
Sounds like an Al Davis Trait to me!!!
"BR"...
Your absolutely right and I share those very same feeling of loss...There will never be another "MGP" who can do it all the way Al Davis could and did....Those who don't get that are just ignorant and blind or too deep in their personal "HateTrip"s to open their damn eyes!!!!
Had Mr Davis NOT died this season he would still be running his ship in the manner that he ran it and we would still be moving forwards with a great deal more stability that what we can see at the moment...I can assure you of that!!!....And we prolley made the "PO" because Al would NOT have let "SuckChuck" implode our "D" the way he did!!!
"H"....
I'm with you...The evaluation will be there and get done and at the end of the day we will maintain our young core of talent and only add to it...The one area where we disagree is on trading "DMc"...Ain't happening!!!...But the matter will be entertained threw the off season anyway as a means to promote trade talks...
Palmer is NOT going anywhere and Corkran is an idiot for even pimping such a thing!!!...Total stupidity!!!
Why the hell would we trade for a 1st or 2nd rd pick while we're paying a 1st -n- 2nd rd pick...Possible 2 1st....That's just down right stupid!!!...So if you think Marc and Reggie are dumb enough to take some 2nd rd pick this season while giving up our 1st and 2nd next season than you obviously don't think either should be in charge of an NFL franchise!!!
So how much would you pay for Luck???....Would you give up this season's #17 pick as well as next season 2nd rd pick for the 1st selection in this NFL draft???
Guess what....Trading Palmer to Indy would be the same as trading our #17 pick and our 2013 2nd rd pick....
Just something to throw a curve into what I'm pimping about the trade that will never happen!!!
PantyRaider....Uncharted Waters Lay Ahead!!!/_
Gary said: "Can we get Al back now? lol Just kidding actually."
This is ok, but when I suggest the HC search and interview process might not have been what it ought to have been the last 9+ years, I'm badmouthing Al Davis?
Geez!
..."don't remember that AT ALL.
Maybe you are thinking of the guy that discounted the reports that Hue had to re-interview for his job because they had the same agent?".....
CorkOnTheNFLSteve Corkran tweets..
“@ym27067: @CorkOnTheNFL will hubert be bought back next yr? Will hubert have a say in GM?” --Corkran says.... "He is coming back, will have some say in GM."
JONES
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