Sunday, September 23, 2018

Dolphins Gameday Thread

Here we go, aiming to avoid an 0-3 start to The Gruden Show. It's going to be warm in Miami, gotta be able to finish strong, no excuses.


I'm enjoying the deep discussion going on here about the state and direction of the Raiders. If I'm going to boil it down, here's what I think is going on:


-Mark Davis hands Jon Gruden 10 years and $100 million. Which equals POWER.


-Gruden comes in, maybe thinks he's going to make it work, but is ultimately unimpressed with the roster he has inherited. A bunch of Reggie's guys are pitched, most notably Kahlil Mack.


-Gruden is not going to hitch his wagon to Reggie McKenzie. Not with 10 years and $100 million on his side. He's going to remake the Raiders in his image, for better or for worse. Because if it's for the better, he'll be the king of Las Vegas and his legacy will be cemented.


-Reggie is seemingly being marginalized, and I'll be surprised if he's not gone soon in favor of a Gruden guy.


I think that's what's going on. That's my read on it. Some Raiders fans think it's a necessary fresh start and that Gruden is on the right track, others think Gruden's ego is setting the team back and may lead to ruin. 


I honestly don't know what to think, because The Gruden Show is only just getting started. One thing I'm fairly certain of: change is in the air, and the autumn wind is still a Raider.



44 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

NFL is rigged, look at the calls by the refs. It is becoming unwatchable. Watching the KC vs SF game, same thing there. Refs control the outcomes.

10:59 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

I agree with you Take. It is all about power with Gruden. One person who has absolute power, will absolutely corrupt and destroy. This is how I feel about Gruden right now. The Mack trade was just the beginning. I think Irvin will be let go after this season, and maybe Cooper.
NFL.com is running this report on how Gruden is dividing the Raiders scouting department:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000964848/article/jon-grudens-scouting-system-led-to-divide-in-raiders-building

The biggest statement in this article about the scouts of the Raiders is:
"Certain scouts and evaluators weened under McKenzie are frustrated that Gruden has his guys, who make up a group that spearheaded the signing of several veteran free agents, the jettisoning of many previous draft picks and the trade of Khalil Mack ... The factions do come together for meetings and everyone is eventually heard. But several people say they are frustrated at not being listened to, adding that they've never seen a divided setup quite like this one."

Hmm, I've been saying this for several weeks. It is all about ego right now with Gruden, and his ego will cause the Raiders to hurt more than help (just like Al Davis). How long will the Raiders have a losing season? I don't know, but if the Raiders are looking to win before they leave Oakland, I'm not holding my breath.

12:15 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

This team apparently doesn't have what it takes, at least so far. Offense sputtering at the wrong moments, defense can't make stops when it counts.

1:01 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Carr picked in the End Zone, Dolphins 74 Yard TD pass. Wow, absolutely deplorable. To be fair, Carr was hit as he threw. At least he stayed in the pocket to get his read and let the play develop. Defense has to play better though. Gave up the go ahead 52 Yard TD, and now the 74 Yard TD on a similar play. 0-3.
First time Raiders have scored 20 points since Dec 3rd, beating the Giants 24-17. Offense has to find a way to bring it home. Defense has to learn not to give up big plays.

1:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Can't blame Gruden for Carr being a choker. Can't Blame Gruden for Cooper dropping clutch passes. Execution is on the players and the Offense isn't what some thought it was. Raiders need another redo, Carr is not good enough and Gruden is realizing it. Cooper isn't good enough. Penn is done.

1:08 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

True, hard to win games when your Franchise QB starts to look like his brother David in the pocket. Jittery and going through his reads too quickly.

2:18 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Really disappointing.

Pressured or not, Carr made what looked like a rookie mistake throwing into coverage in the end zone, again (on first down!). Not sure the defense could have held the game anyway, with another 4th qtr collapse.

They no longer have the presence that Mack provided. He was their closer in 2016. Irving assumed he would step into that role but that's been a joke so far. Earlier in the half, Irving stunted to the inside on a play that allowed Tannehill to scramble around the edge for a huge 1st down. Tannehill's a known scrambler and Irving abandoned the edge.

I heard that Edwards Jr had a good day for the Giants, with a sack and some pressures. Kind of curious because the Raiders released Edwards but kept Treyvon Hester, then dumped Hester for Price, then dumped Price. Seem haphazard.

So I guess we are left with; there should be no expectation of winning in the first season following a total dismantling of the roster (for better or worse).

Pretty soon we will face the Browns in what could be a battle for top pick in 2019.

2:31 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

P.S. when did Keith Smith become a secret weapon? He was the ball carrier on 4th down that got stuffed at the goal. Last week he was the one that dropped a critical pass on 4th and 1.

Sure, he caught a pass today on 3rd and 1, but who cares. This guy should never touch the ball. He never has before.

That goal line play felt like the Seahawks superbowl play all over again. Lynch should have gotten the call behind Smith's blocking.

It seemed so obvious at the time, then it became incredibly obvious after Lynch channeled Marcus Allen on the Raiders' next goal line chance, and leaped over the line.

No hindsight needed.

2:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the offence is much improved from last year. Gruden is still a great coach and an offensive genius. Carr will get the kinks out. A few more plays made vs missed and this team will be putting up 30 a game. Looking forward to seeing them spank the Browns next week. The first three games they were not favoured in any and have been a few plays away from being 2-1. Defense needs more players far beyond just Mack. That seems to be the story the past few years.

Regards
Sandy

4:08 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

"Defense needs more players far beyond just Mack?"

I couldn't disagree more. The Raiders defense looked good all day except for a few critical plays in the second half, when Mack usually turns up the heat.

Mack had 2 more sacks and another forced fumble today. He's a one-man wrecking crew. Mack is, without question, a player you want to build your defense around.

Unfortunately, the Bears won today.

In my strong opinion, trading Mack deflated the entire team (players and coaches) and possibly derailed this season. Okay, I get some believe it was for the greater good, but only time will tell.

4:59 PM  
Anonymous Raider00 said...


You know it's funny how Mack is now being turned into some superhero.

Mack played for Raiders 3 seasons. Where were all the wins ??

Yes there was 12 win playoff year, but after Carr went down, again, where were the wins ??

So the idea that if only Mack were still a Raider, the early losses would turn into wins, I just don't buy it.

5:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Back in the day, the Raiders played a lot of close games. The Raiders would always win because of Kenny Stabler. Last few minutes, who would you rather see with the ball for a game winning drive? Carr? Stabler? Carr has been under too many coaches and now his bestest buddy has been traded. Carr for 2 1st Rounders?

5:20 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Carr's first interception was a mockery because Cooper gave up on the play. He was two steps ahead of three defenders and stopped running. Didn't even try to tackle the guy who picked it off. He's supposed to be a #1 WR?
Carr's second pick was a bad read and throw. He should have thrown that one away, but tried to pin point it in to Bryant. Raiders all around defense is much improved, but the D-line play is below average. Even the Lions figured it out today against the Patriots, and got a W. The Raiders do not have any play makers on the D-Line. Bruce Irvin has given up on the team when they traded Mack. Nobody else has stepped up. Deplorable.
Mack at least gave it his all. You cannot blame losses on the guy because he motored through double/triple teams every game. Not counting holding penalties that were never called. Did we lose more games with Mack? Yes, but I blame Norton Jr for that, not Mack. Would have loved to seen Mack play with Guenther.
Bottom line, Mack is not with the Raiders. Raiders Defensive Line has to play better than subpar. Carr and the offense has to get rolling, and Carr has to shake these jitters or we won't go anywhere with him. 0-3, and a tough Browns team next. Not looking good for the Raiders at the moment.

9:13 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Despite his suddenly high completion percentage, Carr seems to have lost the fire that made him so clutch a couple years ago. He and other players, like Irving, are trying to do too much, and they're making bad decisions.

00 - Mack played 4 seasons with the Raiders. Laying wins (or losses) solely on his shoulders is absurd. His record speaks for itself... and continues to do so.

Mack has 4 sacks, 3 forced fumbles and a pick-6 INT in 3 games with the Bears; coming off zero participation through the entire off-season and pre-season.

Superhero or not, the Raiders are losing close games in the 4th quarter when Mack does his best work.

4:06 AM  
Anonymous Raider00 said...


NYR...I'm just responding to some of the posters here that seem to think if only Mack were still a Raider, team would be winning instead of losing.

Ok, so 4 seasons, Mack does best work in 4th quarter. But where were all the wins ?

Playoffs, Texans start Bozo the Clown at QB. He shreds Raiders defense. Mack was on the field, and played poorly.

Mack is a very good player, but he is not Lawrence Taylor. Mack did not make everyone around him better. Lets see how far Bears get with Mack leading the way.

5:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One guy I have totally lost patience with is Amari Cooper. To say he is wildly inconsistent is a vast understatement. Yesterday 2 huge drops and quits on a route causing an interception. If you want to point a finger at one guy for yesterdays loss- he is the man. I think its time for somebody else at wideout.

5:56 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

00- I disagree. I don't think Mack can be measured by team wins during a period which Ken Norton Jr and others resided over the defense. And to say Mack doesn't make others around him play better is untrue, IMO. If he's getting doubled and sometimes tripled, that's by definition improving the opportunities afforded to other players. It's up to coaching and other players to benefit from Mack's talent. He can't coach and play for others. No offense, but it's like you and others no longer approve of Mack because he's not, in fact, a superhero.

Next two drafts, we'll all be wishing for a player like Mack.

Re: Cooper. I couldn't agree more. Two huge drops yesterday and he didn't even pursue the defender after the INT. Go back and watch the play. Cooper and Irving have both given up.

6:29 AM  
Blogger OakTownBlues said...

It's not about Mack. It's not about Carr. It's not even about Gruden. It's not EEEVEN about the Refs, air pressure or NFL Governance. Don't go there. There is no secret sauce. The combination of factors is too great for that to even be a sensible conversation.

It's about having a solid system or not.

Example:

The Patriots system goes beyond players, and, if you do your job, you'll usually win, individually or as a team. Often, both, if you're lucky.

Now, listen up, sports fans. Ditch your stats and preconceived beliefs, loyalties and notions (like some of us have).

Example: like the Pats and the Lions last night, well, the Lions with Patricia did to the Pats what the Bucs with Chucky did to the Raiders. (some of you may still remember that "game".

Better basics and better systems win consistently. All players are good enough to beat other players at this level.

That is my take, for goodness' sake.

8:49 AM  
Blogger Michael Nastro said...

Something tells me we should have paid Carr, Gruden, and Copper a little less and signed Mack. But hey "just sayin".

11:50 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

MN, nice avatar. Maybe all three of those guys should go on a contingency payment plan. Gruden may well earn $10mm a year, but it almost certainly won't be this year!

Carr is not the same QB he was in 2016. Some of that might have to do with the relationship he had with Musgrave and Del Rio, both of whom had glowing confidence in their QB. Gruden is more in-your-face intensity than perhaps Carr likes, despite the Ozzie and Harriet appearance of it all.

Cooper, well, I think fans are still waiting for him to show up. Cooper was not known for drops in college.

I don't understand why more WRs don't wear ODell Beckham Jr. "stick'em gloves." Guy catches everything within reach.

12:58 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Gruden finally admitted the Mack trade has not helped the current Raiders roster. Thanks for already stating what everyone knows. He is "hoping" to get equal value to build for the future. But the question still remains, even if you build for the future, will he be willing to shell out the $$ to keep it?

OakTown,
I somewhat agree and disagree with you. You make it sound like everyone has equal abilities in the NFL, and you just need a good scheme to be successful. I disagree with this part. Not everyone has equal talent. Brady is a better QB than most because Billichek has the Patriots spending more time in the film room studying the opponent and their assignments, while only practicing 2 hours. I will take Aaron Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Goff, Carr, and Rivers at QB over Jamies Winston, McCown, Bradford, Nathan Pederson, Trubisky, Preskott, Watson, Bortles, or any other NFL QB at this point. Why? Because the 5 fore-mentioned QBs study film, and have more talent to produce what they've studied than the last 7 and more not mentioned.
So it is true in a sense, that if everyone had equal abilities it would be about scheme. But a solid system is built on the strengths of the different players' abilities that they possess. This is what makes Billichek a great coach, he can put a scheme together based on the strength of his roster; instead of trying to make his roster fit his scheme.

We caught a glimpse of it with Hue Jackson. We are seeing a glimpse of it with Gruden (even though it hasn't yet translated to a "W"). Because players have different levels of abilities, you need guys like Mack, Carr, Cooper, Jordy Nelson, MarShawn Lynch to build a team around because those guys are supposed to inspire others to play better. This is what made the Mack trade so devastating because we finally had a DC that would get the maximum out of our defense, and more out of Mack (if you can imagine that); but never had the chance to build on the centerpiece of our defense. It takes both good players and scheming to those players strengths that make a winning team.

6:39 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I thought it was the core of players led by Carr on offense and Mack on defense that brought Gruden to Oakland in the first place. Guenther received the ultimate bait and switch, with Gruden dangling a carrot of MVP Mack to lead Guenther's defense, only to never even meet the man.

The trade was a gut punch to the whole team. Whether or not you believe Mack can win games by himself (which is ridiculous on its face), it was an instant write-off of 2018.

At a minimum, it's demoralizing for the oldest roster in the NFL and vet players like Lynch who are playing their last year.

To that point, I understand bringing in vets to mentor younger players, but what young talented Raiders players are we talking about? Next year will be another purge.

4:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Obviously, Gruden walked into some situations that changed. And, it would seem, Gruden has seen enough of this roster and feels it isn't what he wants.It would seem the team is not the 12-4 we saw, they are more like the 6-10 we saw last year. There are some good pieces, but there seems to be an attitude problem again. The players seemed to have their way with Del Rio. Gruden won't put up with it and the players are finding out that they no longer run the team anymore. With more coaching turnover, new systems every 2nd year etc, hard to build team chemistry. Hard to build a consistent team when everything around them is inconsistent. This team is walking on a non solid surface, still. If you are truly a Raider fan, you really need to hope with all your might that Gruden can turn this thing around. If Gruden fails, we may never see a good Raider team in our life times.

Smokin Joe

8:57 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

That's grounded. I agree with what you say. Raiders were not as good as 12-4, but perhaps not as bad as 6-10... maybe somewhere in the middle. But, as you say, Del Rio lost the team. He seemed to have great command in 2016, but his single biggest mistake was replacing Musgrave with Downing. A close second is retaining Norton. What a disaster!

The one thing that will bother me, though some here disagree, is that the Mack trade is nothing more than a loosely calculated guess. Aside from being a great player, Mack's a workhorse who demands effort from his teammates, if by no other means than example. That's what every team wants from its players.

Clearly, it's the Gruden Show or bust! Let's hope in 10 years, when Gruden's contract expires, we're not still "starting over."

9:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NY,

Between 12-4 and 6-10 is 8-8.

Yes the Mack trade looks like a terrible move at the moment. But, it has to be judged in two to three years.

I am willing to accept the premise that the roster on the defensive side was a disaster outside of a handful of players, let's face it the entire defense has been turned over and I am not upset about it, in act I cant even remember half the guys who were on it last year. Reggie had one of the best one year drafts ever and Osemele was a good signing. Outside of that he has left the cupboard bare.

From that perspective if they can turn the Mack picks and the extra salary savings into four high quality starters it will be a good move as skeptical as we all are about that happening especially balanced against what looks like a hall of famer at the second most important position in football.

I am bitter that what I thought was a 50/50 chance at the playoffs prior to Mack trade has gone out the window. However, if the result is a proper foundation I will accept.

I am still very positive on Carr he has proven he is a great QB. I think Gruden is a great coach but he needs a partner on the personnel side.

Regards
Sandy



4:15 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Sandy, that's fine. I understand your position. I'm in the camp that believes a bird in hand is better than two in the bush.

If you believe the current rebuild will take several years (allowing time for draft picks to acclimate), then renting Mack for 2-3 more years should have been a no-brainer.

However, I don't believe a rebuild was ever the intention. Signing an NFL-record oldest roster doesn't play into that theory.

If the Raiders are rebuilding, there's plenty of young talented players on NFL Practice Squads I'd rather watch play and develop than a bunch of long-in-the-tooth vets who will be riding their easy-chairs next season.

So let's get this rebuild jump-started. Raiders have one foot out of Oakland already, and should want to go into Vegas on their way up, not down.

4:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...



I do not agree that Carr has proven himself to be a great QB. He had one good year and hasn't shown that form since. He is not comfortable in the pocket and seems to fold under pressure in the pocket and in pressure situations. He is making poor decisions at the worst times. Things that great QB's don't do.

Gruden walked into a locker room that was peppered with players Gruden didn't want. He brought in vets to fill the roster until his players can be signed/drafted. Renting Mack would of meant keeping a player that isn't happy and that is poor management techniques. Face it, Mack needed to be traded, no way around it. Mack wanted out and said it over a conference call, to pay me or trade me. Gun to head.

In no way can you build a decent team raiding other teams practice squads. They are on the PS for a reason, they are fringe.

Raiders are still paying for the past. Gruden came in, saw it wasn't good enough and now wants to make it his vision. The franchise is still trying to recover. Gruden is the last hope of getting it done, if he becomes a disaster, I don't even want to think about it.

Manos de Piedra

9:01 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Practice squad players are there to develop. Raiders have players on their own PS that should be on their roster, like Hatcher. Plenty of young talent on other teams' PS to take a close look at for the rebuild. To think otherwise would be extremely shortsighted. Bills and Patriots have both picked CBs off the Raiders PS within the past few years. That's pretty ironic for a Raiders' team that's struggled so much at the CB position.

Lots of talent out there!! Why should we accept a full-on rebuild and want to waste our time with a roster full of retiring vets. Unless you want to populate your roster with mentors from a losing culture.

10:18 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

P.S. to suggest Mack wanted out is absolutely false. He never asked for a trade. He spoke regularly with Carr and with Irving, and they were more surprised than anyone about Mack leaving the team. Mack said as much himself in an interview with the Bears after the trade.

10:37 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Roberto Duran (one of my favorite fighters btw),

I dont think Mack wanted out but I do think he would have held out like Levon Bell. I think Gruden made a calculation on not getting into a standoff and drew a line in the sand in terms of comp he wanted (2 firsts) and someone hit the bid.

The choice was pay Mack or trade him.

NY, to suggest they could have forced his hand and or franchised him the next few years, I used to think that way as well, but I am now of the opinion that he would have held out and showed up in game 10. Which is a situation worse than trading him.

So let's debate if we should have paid him---my opinion probably---but forcing him to play under his current contract or the franchise tag seemed to be a non starter.

Regards
Sandy

3:19 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Sandy, that's a fair point.

The simple truth is we just don't know if Mack would have held out the season (or until such time that his season would still qualify on the books).

It's a real shame. He deserved to get paid. Raiders had been underpaying him through his entire rookie contract and they knew it. So letting him go on those terms reflects bad on the Raiders, IMO.

It's possible McKenzie would have gotten a deal done with Mack, because he seemed intent whenever asked about it. But Gruden had a quick trigger finger.

What I hate about the process is that it doesn't seem like the sides really spoke. The same thing with Veldheer when he left. He said the Raiders never really reached out. Mack said that, and that he felt as if the Raiders no longer wanted him to play there.

It's possible that Gruden knew he was going to trade Mack, just didn't know how to go about it expeditiously without upsetting the cart. Here's why. reflecting on 2017 Gruden said the Raiders defense didn't win with Mack. But later he said Mack was possibly the best defender in the NFL. That's a complete flip and it's not something you say before you negotiate a contract. It's something you say to bait a trade.

5:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would be happy if the Mack situation turned out half as well as the Veldheer for Penn switch.

New question for you guys

Would the raiders be 2-1 if Gru had given it to Beast Mode on those two 4th down calls instead of the FB

Regards
Sandy

5:28 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Sandy, Penn was a mistake, and only brought to the Raiders after a huge whiff by McKenzie to sign Saffold from the Rams; who failed his physical with the Raiders.

Are you simply rooting for more lucky breaks? 'Cause I'm hoping the Raiders actually have a plan.

For what it's worth, Penn is currently ranked by PFF as the worst RT in the NFL (maybe worst among all lineman, maybe worst of all-time). But the Raiders have no better option!?

You already know the answer to your second question.

The Seahawks are laughing that another team is dumber than they were in the SB.

And not just once, but twice.

Keith Smith # has been called on two critical, game-deciding 4th down plays and failed both times.

No hindsight is needed on this one. Smith was the Cowboys FB for 4 years and came to the Raiders with a total of 8 receptions and 2 carries in his career. So it's safe to say Smith's experience in these situations isn't what keeps bringing Gruden back to that well.

Perhaps a better question: Is Gruden just rusty, or is this what we can expect moving forward?

4:20 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Here's a scratch your eyes out irony.

Who could have ever imagined a Hue Jackson-led Browns team would come into Oakland to play the Gruden-led Raiders and it's the Browns - not the Raiders - who have their sh*t together.

Raiders cannot lose this game and save face. There's no bottom below this. Sadly, I'm already anticipating the embarrassment of watching this game in a public place.

4:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NY

I am glad you have determined it was a lucky break jettisoning an overpaid Veldheer for a much cheaper vet who went on to make multiple pro bowls. A lot to be negative about it but this was a great move.

Seems like an excellent move by our GM.

Sandy

7:01 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

At the time I didn't agree with the Veldheer move, but when we got Penn, I was excited about that because he was an upgrade over Veldheer, and still ranks as a higher LT.
Penn hasn't done that bad at RT to deserve to be last in PFF. He is currently ranked as an average RT on PFF with a 43.9. Chad Wheeler is ranked the lowest at 40.4. Unfair to rank Penn this low seeing as he didn't play Week 3 against the Dolphins.
He does have the worst pass blocking grade by PFF in passing situations.
We don't have another option at RT, which is where I thought they would address in free agency or draft. Disappointing.
I think the Raiders beat the Doncos had they used Richard for the 4th and 1 pass out of the backfield, or Lynch to hammer it. Had Smith caught that pass, game over. Olawale was a better FB and Gruden cut him.
I have not been impressed with Gruden's roster moves. Reggie has made better moves: Bowman, Olawale, Richard, Mack, Conley, and Irvin. Gruden has held on to some of them, but has let go of some key players. Olawale, Mack, Crabtree; but has brought in some good talent as well like Whitehead, Melvin, Gilchrist. Only time will tell if Gruden has a better plan, but they better win this weekend. JUST WIN BABY!

11:54 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Sandy, Veldheer was coming off his rookie contract. Not sure how you qualify that as being overpaid. I don't remember the Raiders ever making him an offer.

"Great move"?? Did you forget the move was for Saffold? Saffold failed his physical and the Raiders got caught with their pants down.

Donald Penn hadn't even been cut by Tampa Bay when the Raiders/Safford deal was announced.

Raiders signed Safford for $8.5 per year avg and he was tagged by many as a downgrade to Veldheer. Meanwhile, Veldheer signed with AZ for avg $7.0 mil a year.

After all this was going south for the Raiders, Penn became available because the Bucs were grossly overpaying him, and he was coming off a terrible season which sacks were a huge concern.

Penn has been terrific for the Raiders, but I don't know where you see the genius in how this all went down.

So, yes, the Raiders were extremely LUCKY(!) Penn became available.

btw, Penn's holdout resulted in a two-year deal worth $21 million ($10.5 per). He restructured a bit, but we ended up with an overpaid RT.

7mm is not overpaying a starting LT. It wasn't then, and it still isn't.

1:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NY

your logic is bizarre and your facts are wrong

Salary the Raiders have paid Penn 28.8 over 5 years which is 5.7 a year. Veldheer over the same time period averages 7.1

Penn made two pro bowls Veldheer was average to poor. Don't even argue that.

How the Raiders came to get Penn who cares, they got him.

Sorry, I don't mean to go Jones on you but your negativity is reaching new levels. Please go back to complaining about Bowman.

Have a good weekend
Sandy

2:18 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Sandy,

Not being negative for the sake of it. Let's please just call it like it happened, and not paint it as managerial genius.

"How they got him" is exactly the point. It was by luck.

Media reported Saffold signed with the Raiders on or about March 11, 2014.
Tampa Bay didn't cut Donald Penn until March 13, 2014.

So please don't confuse the Raiders luck with some "great move". Veldheer was already gone, so after the Raiders/Saffold deal failed, signing Penn was the only play they had, and it was lucky that Penn was available to the Raiders... where, yes, he's played very well.

Also, to be clear, Raiders signed Saffold for 8.5 mil a year. That's more than Veldheer received from AZ.

Knowing Penn was not an option at the time, did you not think Veldheer was worth retaining, even at a modest salary? $7mm is not that much to pay a LT.

Am I missing something? Did Veldheer suck and I didn't know it?

You enjoy your weekend as well.
Cheers!

3:25 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Don't mean to extend my "negativity" but Cleveland media are reporting that the Browns are being cautioned "not to take the Raiders lightly."

Huh?

Is this really where we've sunk? The Browns might be taking a road game with the Raiders lightly?

Geez! The next step down is teams going back to calling games against the Raiders a "second bye week."

We're dangerously close because that sentiment would almost certainly follow a home loss to the Browns.

To be sure, this game is special for Hue Jackson. It's the Raiders who should not take the game lightly. Jackson will pull out all the stops, using every trick play in his playbook, and maybe make some new ones up just for the Raiders.

Raiders need to get pissed off. Time to jump start the 2018 season with a major spanking of the Browns!

The entire season, the Raiders friggin' dignity, and everything else you can pile on, hangs in the balance.

GO RAIDERS!

3:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Okay NY your last post has my stomach acid bubbling-lol, I could really use a win today.


To stick a pin in the Veldheer issue. I think Veldheer was an avg pass blocker and above avg run blocker with the Raiders. I thought with Arizona he became a below avg pass blocker. Not that it matters at this point but Saffold has is the better player than Veldheer.

Hopefully we will be enjoying a win this evening

Sandy

5:52 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

For what it's worth, Carson Palmer, who he had a quick release, often hung on to the ball way too long. Based on your description, Veldheer and Carr would have been a good fit. Even now, the Raiders could use an average pass blocker who excels against the run... at either tackle spot.

That would be a welcome change.

10:08 AM  
Blogger OakTownBlues said...

Enough Mack Smack. It's over. One Guy. Losers Lick Wounds, just let the scar heal. Nice win. It's about time.
Nice Take, Take.
Out.

10:33 AM  
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7:52 PM  

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