Thursday, August 30, 2018

Mack Attack

Yeah, I know...I've been an absentee landlord since the spring. Sometimes you drift along the river of life, sometimes you find yourself back on shore.

I'd like to talk about Khalil Mack. Rumor has it that the Raiders might move him for two first-round draft picks. 

Now think about this. Bundle any two first-round Raiders draft picks (not named Mack) from the McKenzie era, and tell me if you would trade Mack for that package. You would not. So what are the odds that you could get decent value by trading Mack for two first rounders? 

Now, of course, you'd also be saving a lot of money by not negotiating with Mack and instead taking future picks who won't affect the immediate bottom line. But if that's the mindset, we've got problem. 

Let's hope it does not come to this. Let's hope there's more dialogue going on than people are saying, and that we find a way to bring Mack back into the fold. He bears some responsibility in all of this (he is under contract, after all), but this is how the game is played these days. 

This could all be much ado about nothing. Maybe the Raiders are just playing hardball. Maybe Mack will blink. If he does, the relationship may be permanently damaged. If he doesn't, then look out. 

It's hard to see any upside to this saga. 

54 Comments:

Blogger nyraider said...

RT, thanks for the new post. Glad you made it back to shore. Hopefully, you have enough time to relax and have a pint. Cheers!

AL may be dead but his animus toward players who challenge the org is alive and well. As I said before, I believe it will take Mack just showing up on his own, without a new deal, to provide the Raiders with the goodwill they childishly need to make a new deal. If Mack is talking to Penn and taking his advice, then maybe that's being discussed.

But I think the Raiders have more to lose than Mack. As some have reported, losing Mack will be Gruden's legacy.

The draft pick thing isn't even a close call. McKenzie can't rub two first round picks together and make a third-round pick, so forget that. But it's bigger than McKenzie's history; it's the Raiders' history too. The Raiders are terrible with trades. Look no further than the trade that sent Gruden to Tampa. Two first round picks and two second round picks and $8.0mm cash... and nothing to show for it except a SB loss.

Getting more pissed off by the day about Mack's absence.

Memo to Reggie and Chucky:
New deal for Mack! (Wake up and stop pretending like he doesn't deserve it.)
Keep Chris Warren III on the 53-man roster! Warren will not clear waivers!

6:45 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Take! Welcome back buddy! Gruden said Seth Roberts will be on the 53, Keon Hatcher exploded today but not sure he stays with the team. So did Manuel, who looks to be the #2 after tonight, but is still no guarantee. Mario Edwards Jr will be GONE tomorrow. He was playing in the 4th quarter tonight against the 3rd string and wasn't getting a lot of pressure/push. Fadol Brown will make the team.
Warren struggled tonight against a good defense, but he also kept grinding and working. He will make the 53.
Connor Cook will most likely be cut tomorrow. The DB competition is fierce. I hope that Antonio Hamilton stays, he played extremely well. Going to be a lot of tough cuts. JUST WIN, BABY!

11:23 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

IMO, Warren's struggle against a good D was as much or more about a lack of depth along the Raiders O-line. If any starter goes down, Raiders are in big trouble.

Conversely, D-line seems stacked. The concern here is that the Raiders become complacent and think they can get along without Mack. That would be a huge mistake. Mack will command double teams and free up "new and improved" players. Plus, Mack can't be stopped, even with double teams.

The last preseason game is over and the clock is ticking!

5:08 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

You guys are the best.

Cook has fallen off a cliff. Three weeks ago, the talk was about how Gruden was making magic with Cook. Maybe not.

8:01 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Aaron Donald signs 6 year $135 million contract today; $87 million guaranteed. Coupled with the almost $7 million he is due this year, Donald will get $142 million. Mack is next, I'm thinking maybe 7-8 years $145 million, $90-92 guaranteed, with guaranteed monies being split out through the contract life. Look for that to be done in the next few days.
Take, your site is still the best. I know a lot of people have left, especially since the Raiders struggled and they lost hope, but I still love coming here year after year talking about the team we all love. I miss Panty Raider, and I know he still clicks in, but I hope he comes back.
Cook started well early in camp, and was progressing. When Gruden started adding more responsibility, he couldn't handle it and fell apart. Cook couldn't take Gruden's magic. Manuel did the complete opposite. He didn't start of well, but he finished, and excelled the more Gruden put on his plate. His big concern overall with Manuel was ball security. Last night, he held on to the ball. Still not sure if that won Manuel the #2 spot, but we will see. JUST WIN, BABY!!

9:32 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

In somewhat Raiders related news, the Houston Texans have cut Shane Lechler. I wish him well.

9:35 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Nate, love your optimism but, damn, $145mm with $90 guaranteed? I don't have the numbers, but Donald's deal is probably way more than Mack was asking for. The Raiders should have just shut up and paid him when they had a chance. Penny wise and pound foolish. Now Mack is going to cost them more money!

I agree that Manual stepped up last night. I saw him secure the ball with two hands. It seems obvious but I guess some people need reminding. This is one area that Lynch excels. Dude most be tough as nails to hang on to the ball the way he does.

Get ready for the cuts.

4:57 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

IMO, the Donald contract increases the chance the Raiders might trade Mack. PFT reports the Browns are very interested and they have $55mm cap space. They could pay a huge signing bonus, or front load a contract to mitigate cap hit in future years.

This is still very concerning!

It's pretty obvious the Raiders cannot find another Mack no matter how many draft picks the Browns could give them.

5:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Guys,

As a fan of the Raiders, I want them to give Mack a long term contract two weeks ago. It is seriously bringing me down.

If I was in management for the raiders different story. In the cold blooded world of the NFL, they are playing it perfect. Lets face it the NFL does not give a shit about the players.

The Raiders have all the leverage, Mack is under contract this year and they could franchise him two more years. Its the smartest move. Maybe give him a couple more million to come in to smooth the waters. Otherwise they can retain him for three more years----Levon Bell with more salary freedom and if Hall, Key or Hurst end up being a star they are sitting pretty.


As it relates to trading him that would be insane especially now if draft picks are part of the package, you wait until next years draft if they decide to go that way. But agree with NY the mathematical chances of them getting equal value are low even if it is two firsts.

Mack will play for the Raiders this year. At most he misses one game. Everything else is media crap

Enjoy the long weekend
Sandy

7:05 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Playing out Mack's rookie contract in which he has been, and continues to be, grossly underpaid is not good business, IMO. The Raiders owe Mack a new deal. They did as much for Carr, and they have historically overpaid several players, like Penn and Ellis most recently.

Trying to find a positive spin, Levi Damien went as far as to suggest the Raiders could wait until Monday or Tuesday go get Mack in the fray, thereby, allowing them an extra roster spot during the mandatory cuts on Saturday.

Hell, maybe it's a coordinated effort by the Raiders and Mack... but then you need to disbelieve the sides haven't spoken since Feb.

Whatever it is, or whatever you want to believe, it's a dangerous game. Using leverage against your friends and family ain't cool. Call it "business" if you want, but it's looking less and less like this will end up as a career of prosperity in a Raiders uniform for Mack.

Mack needs to be treated like he's the Raiders' modern-day Howie Long, a career-Raider who gets inducted in the HOF. There's no other player in Raiders recent history that deserves it more.

5:30 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

There you have it, Raiders are trading Mack to the Bears.

It's gonna take a while to get over this move. Picture two Kolton Miller's replacing Kahlil Mack. That's not even fathomable.

5:57 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

It is reported that the Bears have permission to negotiaye with Mack, but no deal has been made. Lincoln Kennedy calls this a false report. If anyone is in the know, it would be Lincoln. Until it happens, I won't believe it, especially from Ian Wrongreport.

6:05 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

After Gruden called Mack "the best player in the NFL," I started to believe the trade rumors. That's not what you say when you're negotiating a new contract. Gruden has a stick up his ass for players that don't toe his line. Mack didn't show up for a single event during the off-season.

This is gonna happen.

6:18 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Awful news
Sandy

6:33 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

This years' draft looks to be decent, save 1st and 3rd round which the Raiders either reached too high or wasted altogether. And even if you believe 2014's draft was stellar, trading Mack only proves that wrong. Neither Carr nor Jackson is the superstar that Mack clearly is.

Just one step closer to leading the league in draft pick attrition. Raiders draft players hoping to find the next Khalil Mack, then trade him away.

So "building through the draft" has become some mystical future event that never actually happens.

There will be plenty of fans out there who believe Gruden should have given up part of his salary to Mack... and they might be right.

6:58 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I would add that Mack was McKenzie's legacy; now he's Gruden's legacy. That much the media got right. This is Gruden's first significant move as Raiders HC, and it's huge! He hasn't coached a single game yet!

7:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It makes no sense why they would trade him now unless they get a front line player as well. Why not wait till before the draft and get him on the field this year.

Fadol Brown and Key better be awesome but they are not ever going to be Mack awesome.

I guess this came down to Mack or Cooper as one of the calculations.

Sandy

7:13 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Mack or Cooper? That's a no-brainer. What has Cooper done?

Raiders will need to field 12 defenders to make up for losing Mack. Yet, they could pull Cooper off the field and never know he was gone.

7:46 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Early reactions from Raiders players is bad. Irving is pissed. Report is Mack was offered $20mm. He wanted $23mm.

But consider this; the Raiders are about to move to Vegas, where every player will receive a huge bonus in the form of income tax savings. Mack certainly will be paying hefty state income tax in Chicago.

Not sure this will get reported in terms of Mack's contract but this was discussed when the Raiders announced the move to Vegas.

7:53 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Damien:
"...scratched off a lottery ticket, won big money, like REALLY big money. Then Gruden grabbed it and went back into the store and said "Can I just exchange this for a couple more lottery tickets instead?"

That's exactly it!

10:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...



2 1st rders and a player. At 1st, it's a shock. After absorbing the shock and rationalizing this trade, it could be a win for both sides. Raiders setting up for the future and da Bears trying to win now, cap be damned. Obviously, there are parts to this story that the fans will never know. Mack wanted to hold out to make his point. By Mack's actions, he seemed to think he was bigger than the team and was shown the door. I think what was being shown here is that the Raiders will not be held hostage by anyone. If you are not for the team and show you are about your ego and money, then you won't be around the Raiders locker room for long. Of course no team wants to lose it's best player, but there are other matters at play here. IMO, in the long run, this will be a plus for the team.

Raider

10:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Trading MAck allows the Raiders to add 4 players. Two 1s and two fa next year at 10mm each. For sure Bellicheck would have done this, they traded Chandler Jones for a 2. My question is why not wait till the draft to do it and get at least 10 games out of Mack this year.

Sandy

11:15 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Mack is a team player through and through. Nobody questions that. This is Mack vs Gruden, and, for the most part, the players and fans are on Mack's side.

RPT: Raiders have the cap space for Mack.
RPT: Mark Davis wanted to keep Mack
Guess: Reggie McKenzie is nowhere to be found, because few GM's ever draft a player as good as Mack. His legacy just flew out the door!

Based on what we've seen from Mack, this could cost the Raiders close games and a playoff run. Of course that's speculation, but we all know what Mack can do in the 4th QTR. That's how you become MVP.

11:20 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Raiders traded Luani. He's a fringe player but a good safety and provided good depth.

Gruden is clearly a vet-friendly coach, whereas, McKenzie wants to build thru the draft. Luani is a bit of a ball hawk, so let's see what possibly wash up vet Gruden opps to keep instead.

I'm still trying to figure out how Doug Martin became a lock on the 53-man roster without playing more than a few snaps in preseason. Mr. 2.9 yards per carry... just cause he played in Tampa once upon a time.

IMO, every move Gruden makes at least for the next 2-3 years is (and should be) under a microscope. It's a bold move to trade the face of the franchise.

I am holding out hope that Mark Davis steps in before the trade is complete.

11:44 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Mario Edwards is getting cut. That leaves the Raiders with no second round draft picks on their roster since 2014, Derek Carr, and they just shipped out their first round pick for that year. In fact, don't bother looking beyond 2014 because nobody is left. 2015 is extremely thin, and could all but disappear by the end of today, with only Cooper remaining.

Anyone who believes that draft picks is just compensation for Khalil Mack is sorely mistaken. Bears fans have everything to celebrate today.

12:58 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

I'm f#/=×ng bent! I am seriously angry with Jon Gruden. You dont find a HoFer like Mack and trade him. Raiders had the cap, but this was about Gruden's ego. This will come back to bite us in the @$$. I wish there was a Donco fan near me because I'd punch them in the face!

1:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...



If Mack was a team player, he would have come to camp and negotiated and filled out his already signed contract. He would not have walked off the field when Norton was fired. He would of not acted like Aaron Donald.

Gruden said you are either in or you are out. So now, Mack walks and gets his outrageous contract. Mack is a great player, but does a team need to pay one player who isn't a QB that kind of money in a cap situation? With all that guaranteed money and just one play to finish a career?

It's easy for those who's lively-hood does not depend on it, to say pay him the money, he is just one player who isn't a QB.

Some nice looking talent ready to be groomed by the new DC is the focus now.

Mark Davis signed off on the deal, he has the last say and he agreed to do it. Raider fans love to rage, but in due time, they will understand this move. Some will say the sky is falling and emotions are running high, in time, it will calm down.

Raider

1:22 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Gruden will need to coach outside of himself in order to make up for this. He is likely to get booed at home games. Mack is irreplaceable.

Now the compensation is less than initially reported. The Raiders get two first rounders but send a second round pick to the Bears. This is becoming more and more of a joke.

1:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...



Gruden once said that the D with Mack didn't fair very well, in those terms, why break the bank for a guy who has been the leader on a loser of a D?
Yes he is a great player but look at the investment at age 27. He wanted a record contract with a term over 4 years, it would seem.
Mack wanted a high percentage guaranteed money. The Raiders also get a 3rd back. Talk around the league shows many teams were making offers, this one must have been the best one. IMO, Mark didn't want to pay the contract. Interesting stuff for sure.

Raiders

2:13 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Raiders sent them Mack and a 2nd round pick, so getting a third is not so wonderful. No way to spin it. Mack is an extremely rare find. Only a few guys in the league with his talent. Raiders will not draft a player as good as Mack during Gruden's 10 years, if he lasts. Yes, you heard it hear first.

Meanwhile, the trade of our 2018 third round pick is about to go south, just as I feared it would. Bryant is facing another 1-year suspension and is probably done with football. Brilliant!

Raiders suck at trades. Just this year:

-Traded down in draft order a few slots for minimal compensation so that AZ could get its franchise QB. What a joke!
-Traded their 2016 2nd rd pick to w/Cowboys for Switzer, then traded Switzer for a 5th (I believe).
-Traded a 3rd rd pick for Bryant, knowing there was a risk of him being suspended. Bryant was coming off a one-year suspension, so should never have happened!
-Traded a walking HOFer in Mack....

The Cowboys dumped Jihad Ward, so no big deal there with Switzer, but the Raiders now need a reliable WR and Switzer is young, inexpensive and can also return kicks.

Meanwhile, the Steelers and Bears are definitely laughing at the Raiders.

RT, break out the clown car! If you're there, give us some insight on this. Tell us why fans shouldn't greet Gruden with a chorus of boos at the next game.

3:53 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

To be clear, the 3rd round pick the Raiders received from AZ to trade down in the first round is what they used to get Bryant. In doing so, they missed drafting the young left tackle that the 49ers drafted one pick ahead of the Raiders.

Now that Bryant is being cut by the Raiders, they have zero to show for either deal, and end up with Kolton Miller instead of a more highly regarded LT.

Today has been an absolute disaster for the Raiders.

Can someone try and spin the Bryant thing... like the Raiders weren't really counting him anyway...?

4:04 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Ha, Nate!

Raider comes in to provide a calming perspective here, nice.

That said...NY, it was definitely a strange day in Raiderland. Mack traded, Bryant cut (bye bye third rounder, we hardly knew ye), McCarron traded for (so much for the Connor Cook storyline).

The Mack thing only works out for the Raiders if he becomes less than what we think he is over the next several years. I can understand being queasy over sinking that much money into one player after you've already committed so much to Carr (although overpaying for Gruden tends to undercut any sympathy). The organization just seems a bit chaotic at the moment, there goes Mack, there goes Bryant, here comes a QB at the last second. Finally, finally, finally, they score on a first round pick in Mack, and then they cut him loose for picks because they don't want to pay the going rate in an era were top players are exerting some leverage? Is this organization ready to compete with the best in the NFL, not just on the field, but at the executive and financial level?

We shall see. We have to give Mark Davis and Gruden a chance. Hopefully they know something we don't.

6:01 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

*Addendum: The Mack thing works out also if they get at least one Mack's worth with those two first round picks, but I'm not holding my breath.

6:02 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Gruden II may be a good HC, but his personnel moves as GM-de facto are making McKenzie look better and better. To borrow a phrase from something I read earlier, today was a shit-show for the Raiders.

The Bryant thing is a complete joke. Gruden knew this could happen and wasted the draft pick anyway. Bryant wasn't even that good in preseason.

McCarron is a headscratcher too. Cook and Manual both sucked at times, but Manual stepped up his game and he knows the playbook and the receivers. If Carr goes down, how does bringing in McCarron help us now? He'll know six plays by next Monday.

Ironically, we also got Manual from the Bills. He was their 1st round pick. McCarron was a 5th round pick, and the Bills were ready to release him. Raiders gave the Bills a free rental on McCarron and Raiders end up with a QB they might not be able to use effectively for several weeks.

This is supposed to be a billion dollar organization and Gruden acts like he's trading Topps bubble gum cards. "Here's a Mack card. No big deal, I'll get another one."

Sorry, I don't get it.

7:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NY would you have been cool paying Mack what the bears gave him? I think the Raiders had a number in mind that was below that and Mack was never going to take it.

Where the Raiders screwed up is not by trading Mack it seems they had decide that had to happen it was timing
a) not trading him before last years draft
b) waiting till next years draft and then trade him knowing what order picks they are getting and having Mack play at least the majority of this year
c) Franchise him the two years after this year-----my personal preference.

Knowing they were not going to use 24mm in cap room on him, they waited till they got the "godfather" offer and pulled the trigger now.

I dont think there is one Raider fan that is happy with Mack gone and yes they will never get a single player or even two that equal Mack.

But their hypothesis was the team was not going anywhere as is. Let face no one on this blog was predicting a deep playoff run. They were not going to give Mack the extension he wanted. Under that scenario the move made some mathematical sense. Why? Now they can provably chose to keep Cooper if they want in two years, sign two free agents at 8mm plus each and get two first rounders.

I would have been a little more patient and hard-balled him and made him play for the Raiders this year and possibly one franchise season.

Bryant too bad he was talented but we were not hearing good things about his pracitce, a waste of a third pick in hindsight but in the grad scheme of things small potatoes.

Warren to IR.

Regards,
Sandy

9:04 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Roses are red, violets are blue, Jon Gruden just gave the Nation, the biggest FYOU!

5:57 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Sandy, the "godfather offer"? You do know that in addition to Mack we also sent the Bears a 2nd round pick, right?

The Raiders are reported to have plenty of cap space over the next several years, and the cap threshold will continue to inflate. Salary Cap was NOT the issue! Only a talking point.

I don't think it's sinking in that Gruden dismantled the 2018 Raiders.

DE: Mack was supposed to make our rookie D-linemen better through his presence (on and off the field) and constant double teams. Gone! Again, salary cap was NOT the issue! Raiders employ a combination of rookies (none past 2014) and mostly wash up vets. Some of the vets will be dropping like flies next year.

WR: Having traded for Switzer, brought in Whalen, and blown a 3rd round pick for Bryant, we are now back to last years WR corp, with only a swap of Crabtree for Nelson to show. Sandy, I seem to remember you challenging me for being too critical of the Bryant trade. Turns out, it is exactly what I feared. Now, the Steelers not only got (and spent) our third round pick on a player they knew was getting suspended, they got our best slot WR option in acquiring Switzer for a 5th rd pick (who we acquired for a 2nd round player). Sorry, but this is maddening. It's like Fog Horn Leg Horn cartoon.

QB: Raiders waited until a week before the season opener to release both backups? This has to be an NFL first. No matter what you think of Cook and Manual, both are infinitely more prepared than McCarron will be for the next several weeks. If Carr gets a hangnail, you can kiss 2018 goodbye.

LB: The whole Bowman thing is a mystery. Bowman is an every down LB. With Lee and all the free agents the Raiders acquired, none are every down LBs. Maybe Lee can step up, but that's what the Raiders thought last year too. Enter Bowman!

IMO, Gruden has already written off 2018. At the very least, he put a lot more pressure on Guenther to field a better defense without his star player. Del Rio was so bad that Guenther may actually pull it off, but we will never know how great his D could have been..., except to watch the Bears defense tear it up this year.

This has been stated before, but anyone who thinks draft picks are fair compensation for Mack need look no further than the Raiders recent draft history. It's scary to think the Raiders can draft anyone close to fair compensation.

We get Bears 1st and 3rd in 2019. That's Kolton Miller and Brandon Parker. Yeah!

The Mack trade will go down as the worst in Raiders history. It rivals drafting JaMarcus Russell. Unfortunately, it was compounded by a series of stupid moves. Starting to see a pattern.

Let me finish my rant with this question: If the salary cap would have been manageable if Mack was signed to a blockbuster deal... which many in the media are saying it absolutely would... why would any Raiders fan give the Raiders a pass for this move? It's not like the Raiders would have been hamstrung by being stuck having the best player in the NFL... like, "thank goodness we got rid of Mack!"

We play the Bears next year!

6:48 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Agree NY, this will be a black mark on Gruden's return. Reading a report by Scott Bair who interviewed McKenzie. The Raiders were cap strapped thiz year, without giving intimate details, McKenzie says this was a factor.
This tells me that the Raiders wanted to backload his guaranteed/signing bonus, but Mack wanted monies up front. Thus the impasse.
The Raiders big problem was pressure on QB, and that was with Mack who still avg 10 sacks a season being triple teamed. We better do better this year.
My guess, PJ Hall and Hurst will struggle, and so will Irvin. Key may or may not do well, I think Fadol Brown will do better.
We will never know our possibilities with Mack. If I were in Oakland on Monday Night, I'd boo Gruden. At the same time, if I were DC, I would have re-negotiated my contract to accept $85-90 million to free $$ and keep Mack.

8:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


6 years 141 million 90 mill guaranteed.It's pretty simple, Mark did not want to pay that contract. Mack showed he is about the money and ego and the Raiders/Mark said no thanks. Now is the time to go play football with the Oakland Raiders. Deal is done and it's time for football. I hope da Bears go 0-16.

Raider

9:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Disagree with you NY the Raiders won the trade. No team in the NFL can play two players that much money and be a consistent playoff contender.

Feelings aside for how much we all love Mack, it makes some sense in the context of building a long term contender.

If you dont think they are able to do that going forward with the added cap space, two extra 1s then there was certainly less of a chance doing it with Mack. The team as it was on Friday was not a super bowl contender.

Sorry man no one except a couple of elite QBs are worth two 1s end of story.

Enough with Bowman, last I checked he is not even in the NFL somehow I dont think the Raiders are missing out. Bryant trade was a screw up but in the grand scheme of things not the end of the world and it looks like the picks of Hall, Hurst and Key more that balance out losing that 3rd. Cook, Manuel total losers who cares.

Yes its a big if but if the Raiders draft well, and use the extra cap space then long term it is a great move. I think this years draft looks great and Miller is starting so how bad can he be?

Nate you hit the nail on the head Mack wanted the upfront money like Donald and the Raiders were not going to do it.

Guys Mack is a generational player and the Raiders will never get someone like him again but that does not mean they haven't put themselves in a great position to be a better team without Mack down the line.

Mack may be a better player than Carr but you pay QBs that type of money and no one else.

If there was no hard salary cap this would be a completely different discussion but this is the modern NFL--it may suck as a fan but the move the Raiders made makes sense.



Regards
Sandy





10:34 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

The problem with the Mack deal is this. Say we do habe a good draft, and get some stellar value. Are we going to let them walk like Mack? Dont forget Carr isnt the only big contract. Gabe Jackson and Amari Cooper are next. We've paid good $$ for Rodney Hudson and Kelechi Osemele because football is won in the O and D trenches. But he wasnt willing to pay Mack? I dont buy it. I dont think he was willing to pay a salary cap fine to get Mack what he was asking. Bottom line on this trade was Gruden's ego.

1:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nate

Respectfully, you have some facts wrong. Jackson is under long term contract already. Salary cap fine? What are you talking about that is the NBA, it is a hard cap in the NFL.

Cooper is next but he is not going to cost 24 mm a year, not to mention the Raiders still have his 5th year option and franchise tags if they decide to use it.

What about Mack's ego, yes he deserved every penny he got but why did he not meet with Gruden or come into camp and try and negotiate, or take a back loaded contract.

The past Superbowl winners have done the same thing--Eagles with Shady and Chandler, Collins on Pats.

The Raiders were awful last year and had to turn over their entire defensive backfield for like the 4th time in 5 years. It was time to rebuild, they are now set up nicely for that.

Losing Mack sucks but this was the pro move for the future unfortunately it hurts the team this year. But giving Mack 24 mm a year probably does not make the Raiders anything but a fringe playoff team for the next few years

Regards
Sandy


1:34 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

You guys are dead wrong about the money and Mack's ego. Here's a quote from the man himself:

When asked besides the deal what prompted him to want to be a Bear, Mack replied “to be wanted. Uh yeah, that’s all it takes. That feeling that a place is excited to have you.” Mack insists that he isn’t about just the money.

Raiders had every opportunity to retain Mack. His extension wouldn't officially start until next year, so the Raiders could have worked a deal that did not involve cap space in 2018, while still providing a signing bonus, etc.

Sandy, Raiders got two 1st round picks for Gruden. What did that get them? A SB loss and 15 years of misery. They still haven't recovered.

If the Raiders lose a couple games out of the gate, this could get very ugly.

3:41 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I truly believe the Raiders are incapable of making two extra draft picks worthwhile.

Here's a breakdown of draft picks still with the Raiders. It's alarming, to say the least.

https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2018/9/2/17812648/jon-gruden-has-re-enacted-the-purge-with-reggie-mckenzie-raiders-draft-picks

3:44 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

...it looks like the picks of Hall, Hurst and Key more [than] balance out losing that 3rd.

That's kinda lame. Throwing away 3rd round draft picks should never be excused.

As demonstrated, Raider draft picks have a very short shelf life. If Raiders are going to field a winning team, there's no room for being stupid in the draft. EVERY pick counts!

3:47 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Raiders claim two OTs off waivers. That screams to the lack of confidence they have in their draft picks, including this year's OT duo of Miller and Parker.

What are the odds for my earlier prediction Penn will be playing LT by Week 3, and Miller will be on the bench? Parker won't play unless every other tackle on the team can't go.

Tough to find good talent in the draft, especially when you reach too high for marginal players.

Meanwhile, 2018 Raiders' roster was just anointed the oldest 53-man roster ever assembled in the NFL... since this stat became available.

If you're reading the tea leaves, Gruden is dismantling McKenzie's team, and 2018 is nothing more than a step toward rebuilding... which will start next year after the geriatric wing closes.

Cheers, fellas!

4:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm going to try and make it real simple for you. Yes the Raiders take a step back this year yes losing Mac is awful as a fans perspective. However you nor anyone else on this blog can say with 100% confidence that you thought the Raiders were going to make the playoffs this year and no way in hell were they making a deep playoff run.

Giving two players almost 1/3 of the salary cap would be courting disaster.

Now they have four first-round draft picks in the next 2 years and a ton of cap space. Combined with a very talented quarterback and a fantastic offense line that'll be together for at least the next three to four years puts them in a position to build something serious for the long run. I can't ever remember the Raiders being in this position since the early 80s.

When you get a couple of days to let your emotions cool down I think you'll see this was a logical move that unfortunately hurts bad at the moment.

Let's see where the team is in two years and and hopefully for many years after.

Not that it'll bring you much solace and perhaps it would be an easier decision to make with a few Super Bowl titles under your belt but you know this is a move that Belichick makes all day everyday.

Regards Sandy

6:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Okay forget all this back and forth and all of us moping. Lets have a simple Poll of the people who write in:

Question: Mack apparently was going to sit out games. So would you have paid Mack the 141 the Bears did yesterday? Yes or no answers only. On that note I am looking forward to Monday opening night.


Regards

Sandy: NO
NY:
Raider Nate:
00:
RT:
Raider:

7:25 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Sandy, if keeping it simple for me is writing off this season, no thanks. Gruden is being paid $100mm to win. Not just after Year 4, when the supposed miracle of Mack compensation kicks in, but for 10 years.

I'll keep it simple too, with one simple fact that all Raiders fans know. The Raiders defense is not as good as it was two days ago. That should be the #1 priority of every Raiders fan.

It's not just about Mack being the superstar he clearly is, he was the leader of the defense who would have supercharged a new rookie class. Mack stated in the Bears presser that his job is to play 100% (maybe he said 110%) and he expects the same from the players around him. There's an intangible in that statement which you can't translate into draft picks. And you won't get that from Bruce Irving or anyone else... save maybe Derek Carr.

If fans feel they need to get into the business side of this, it has been spelled out a hundred different ways how the Raiders could have kept Mack without the sky falling on the salary cap.

First off, Mack's cap hit didn't change for 2018. That's how the Bears structured their deal. And as S&B points out, Carr's cap figure goes down every year. Meanwhile the salary cap itself goes up every year. Also, the Raiders are still $8mm under the cap for 2018, so they could have front-loaded some cap space on Mack's new deal.

I'm astonished at the incredible concern about salary cap over retaining the best defensive player in football.

To suggest that a couple future draft picks is compensation for Mack is a joke. One of those first round picks was offset by the Raiders sending the Bears a 2nd round pick. Depending on where these teams end their seasons, that could result in one 1st round pick and some pocket change for the Raiders. As you have conceded the 2018 season, the Bears 2nd round pick from the Raiders might be slotted as a top 10 pick.

Considering the Raiders propensity to downright fail in the draft, giving up their best player for draft picks shouldn't sit well with any Raiders fan. And after witnessing some of the sloppy moves made since Gruden arrived, it gives me even more concern.

To jog your memory, Gruden thought the Raiders should have drafted Johnny Manzel when they drafted Khalil Mack. That's been repeated all over the Internet.

5:35 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

To repeat, the Raiders DID NOT have a salary cap problem. This article debunks that talking point.

https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2018/9/3/17814232/the-raiders-dont-have-a-cap-problem-they-have-a-balance-problem

As I said above, Bears did not have to surrender a penny of cap space this year in order to sign Mack to a long-term deal. Raiders had Mack under contract, plus they had plenty of cap this year to lessen the burden in future years, if they decided to work out a deal.

But the Raiders didn't have to do anything. Mack was going to play. He had no choice, or forfeit a year of FA eligibility.

So salary cap is just an excuse; and a bad one at that.

Khalil Mack was the one player worth keeping. Nobody else on the Raiders roster has proven their worth, including Derek Carr.

There are players that you just don't trade. Mack in his prime is definitely that player.

12:32 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

To answer your simple question Sandy, yes I would have paid Mack. No it wouldn't have hurt, because I would have structured it similar to Carr, and it wouldn't have hit this cap year accept any signing bonuses or anything like that.
Mack's comments of just feeling wanted was major shade at Gruden. He felt like Gruden didn't want him there from the start, and threw shade back at him for the "Our defense wasn't very good with Mack." Now our defense just got WORST!
I can 100% guarantee this: Mo Hurst will not be a force on the D-Line because he cannot shake a double team. PJ Hall will be a force. I'm not sold on Key, who was wishy-washy in pre-season like Mo Hurst. Bruce Irvin is going to struggle without Mack. Who else on our current roster is going to boost the defense like Mack would have? NOBODY! With Mack, and the current defensive roster, we have possibly a top 5 defense this year. Without Mack, we don't break the top 20.
This trade had NOTHING to do with paying/not paying Mack, and everything to do with Gruden, who feels a defensive player shouldn't make that kind of money. This is the consequence we have to deal with due to him being out of the game a decade. We lost not only our best player, but the best defensive player to get us to the playoffs this season. Yes, with Mack, I did believe we had a shot at making the playoffs this year because of Guenther. Now, I don't believe we will get double digit sacks as a team, and we will be lucky to finish 8-8. All because of Gruden's ego.
If he felt $90 million guaranteed was too much for a defensive player, then he needs to answer the $100 million guaranteed he is getting as a non-player.

2:47 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

New take is up: WHAT IT ALL MEANS.

Thanks to everyone for bringing it!

2:52 PM  
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