Sunday, September 16, 2018

Three Postgame Takes

1. There was just that sense of inevitability in the last few minutes when the Raiders couldn't move the ball, and when the Broncos carved the defense up to march downfield for the winning field goal. It felt like Groundhog Day. I've seen it happen so many times, it's like a Raiders signature.


2. It was a better effort overall, and Carr and Cooper showed some chemistry finally. Beast Mode was evident. Carr's completion percentage was out of sight. But in the end, only two touchdowns were scored. Rarely will that ever be enough, and it wasn't today.


3. THE GRUDEN SHOW is off to a rocky start. There wasn't much of a pass rush there at the end. He hasn't been able to get the offense really going. The playcalling seems uninspired at times. Steam is coming out of his ears--and ours.

44 Comments:

Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

How different would our record be with Mack? Do the Raiders win today, pressuring Keenum, and getting more turnovers? I think we are 1-1. They way Carr played last week, there was no way we win that game, but with Mack, it would have been a lot closer.
The momentum shifted on the missed 4th and 1 play action to FB Smith. Great call, wrong target. Doncos drove down the field on a tired Defense and scored. Kick the field goal there, put 3 on the board, and keep the pressure on the Doncos. Game is won if we kick the field goal there.
First drive, Carr rolls out of the pocket with no pressure, and dumps it to Lynch who loses 4 yards. Carr, had he stayed in the pocket, would have seen Cooper wide open in the end zone. Stupid play call, stupid read by Carr. Carr did however, play better, but still has not thrown the ball deep down field, and still looks uncomfortable in the pocket.
Defense looks better, but without a pass rush, they look like they did when Dennis Allen took over. Good defensively, but no pressure on the QB who eventually carves them up. If they can get pressure, they can create more turnovers. Conley looks amazing at CB, made some BIG plays on throws his way. Raiders have to figure out pass rush, it is not rocket science. Who knew that trading Mack would deplete our pass rush as a team? Everyone but Gruden, that's who.

5:17 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

My take boils down to one play as the difference in this game. Potentially, a 10- to 14-point swing resulted.

4th and 1 at the Broncos +/-35 yard line. It's a play you want all your "good hands" players at skill positions. So why is Keith Smith sent to the flat to catch a pass? So there's no confusion, Smith came to the Raiders with 8 career receptions. He almost doubled that today with as nearly as many targets.

Why?

That call (and the game) is on Gruden, IMO. Smith shouldn't have even been on the field during that play.

As I said in my last post, Gruden will explain to the media that the Raiders need to finish better. Every Raiders HC says that, and they're mostly correct.

But after watching the first two games, it's more like Gruden needs to do a better job of coaching the 2nd half of games.

This one stings!

5:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How can you criticize Carr. He was frigging amazing. Three in-completions of which two were dropped balls. No down field? Did you miss the laser to Roberts?

Sandy

6:37 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I didn't criticize Carr but I'm also not ready to say he was amazing. Granted, he was on a mission to redeem himself for last week, which, for the most part, he did. But the Raiders have a total of 7 points in the second half of two games this year. That's awful.

Somebody has to be accountable for the Raiders inability to score. Last week it was mostly on Carr. This week, I believe it's on Gruden and his play calling, e.g., throwing to Keith Smith on a critical 4th down play.

Meanwhile, if you're watching NFL highlights, you see Patrick Mahomes throwing lasers all over the field and lighting up the Chief's scoreboard. The kid has played two games as a pro, vs Carr who is a 5-year vet acting like a deer caught in the headlights. Maybe Mahomes just needs to break a bone to bring him back to earth, but he's been lights out.

So if you're counting moral victories, then give this one to Carr. But that tells me you're already looking to next year... or maybe the year after the Raiders get to use their magic draft picks from the Mack trade.

4:12 AM  
Anonymous Raider00 said...


NATE...you seem to be blaming the Mack trade on Gruden.

But last I checked, Mark Davis is the one writing the paychecks. If MD wanted to pay Mack, he would have paid him.

And last I checked, Reggie McKenzie still holds the title of GM. Unless he only sharpens the pencils, and gets the coffee, wasn't Reggie the one involved in direct negotiations with Macks agent ?

If Gruden is the HC/GM, the Raiders should say so publicly right now.

5:57 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

00 - I would guess that McKenzie IS fetching Gruden's coffee. Make no mistake, the guy who gets paid $100 million makes all the decisions. That's what he was hired to do.

btw, when have the Raiders ever said-so publicly about anything?

6:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was shouting out to Nate who trashed Carr in his post.

All on Gruden. That is ridiculous. The play call to Smith was unconventional but the guy totally dropped a wide open pass. I guess it was Grudens fault that two guys whiffed on the last catch by the Broncos, tackled in bounds the clock runs out. I guess it was Gruden who made Cook false start or Penn miss a block on the pt.

The Raiders missed about 10 different plays that if they make they win and then NY would be talking about what a great coach Gruden is and getting the most out of Carr etc.

Ad nauseum we are all disappointed that Mack was traded which kick started the rebuild. But time will show what that means. We were not winning the super bowl with Mack and there is no one on this blog that would say differently.

I prefer to look to the future, with a franchise QB and a great coach we are half way there.

Sandy

6:37 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

00
MD has left the roster calls to both Gruden and Reggie. Reggie said all last year that the Raiders had the money to do a big deal with Mack (similar to Von Miller). At the press conference after the trade, Gruden said HIMSELF that HE DID NOT WANT TO PAY THAT KIND OF MONEY TO A DEFENSIVE GUY! That statement alone proves it was all Gruden on that call.

Sandy,
Carr was better yesterday, no doubt. Is he like he was before his injuries? No. The laser to Roberts was a 20 yard pass. He threw 2 passes that were longer, 1 to Amari Cooper for 30 yards, the other 23 yards to Jordy Nelson. Down field is 30-40 yard passes. When was the last time you saw him make that throw? Not since before he got hurt. He has no confidence in the O-line right now, and is looking to escape before there is a sign of pressure. He has always had a 1.5 second release of the ball, but now he is having to get comfortable holding the ball a little more so the play can develop. He doesn't like it, it makes him nervous. He did well today because it seems like they adjusted the game plan to get him comfortable; but when it came time to make a bigger play, he crumbled. If the Raiders are going to figure this out, they need a balance of Cooper, Nelson, and Cook in the passing game.

The other thing I am sick of with this offense is our running game. When was the last time we had a 100 yard rusher? The Jets game last season? If Carr is going to be successful, we need more of a running game. We had it going in the first half, and that allowed the Raiders to utilize the play action (which was amazing to see again). It shows up, and then disappears in the crucial moments of the game. Have to be consistent in the running game.

The bottom line, I hate losing to the Doncos, especially close games where the game was ours. 4th and 1 play swayed momentum. Defense had no gas left and the D-Line got overpowered by an underwhelming offensive line. I could have sworn I saw Tommy Kelly, Desmond Bryant, and Kamerion Wimbley playing out there yesterday. I cannot help but think how different it would have been with Mack. Until they show they can make stops, and pick up wins on defense, it is going to be a sore spot.

7:01 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

How about the Raiders not let Case Keenum and the Broncos march all the way down the field in the last minute for an easy chip shot to win? Is that too much to ask?

8:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Gruden made mistakes, players made mistakes and in the end, the Raiders have victory snatched away from them.

When they were trying to run out the clock, Carr didn't let the clock run down, he was snapping the ball with plenty of time still on the play clock. Gruden needs to understand that keeping it close and shutting down at the end of the game is not how the game is played anymore. Have to keep pushing for scores, sitting back and shutting er down doesn't work, the League is too wide open now.

Bruce Irvin is next to be booted from the roster. He has the wrong attitude and I saw him give up on plays and takes really dumb penalties. While the play was going, Irvin was seen getting in a ref's face and yelling at him, instant 15 yrds, thanks Bruce.

This team is still trying to find itself, lots of player turnover and new systems on both sides of the ball. It seems to never end, player turnover, new coaches, new systems, hard to win when this is happening on a regular basis. Sure would be nice to see some stability for once.

Oh yeah, the mile high air really got to the Defense in the 4th qrtr. Something the Raiders coaches did not take into account, IMO. Coaching is finding it's footing, players are still trying to find each other, doesn't happen overnight, that is for sure.

John Wayne

9:06 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Sandy, when you're playing the percentages, do you pick the worst possible option, then wonder what happened when the outcome doesn't work in your favor?

That's what Gruden did. Sure, you can find a dozen plays that didn't go the Raiders way, but no other 4th down plays that factored directly to the outcome of the game. Raiders were in Mile-High field goal range, and instead turned over the ball and let the Broncos score a TD. That's a 10-point swing in a 2-point game.

Stats don't lie. Smith is slow and he can't catch. Those are facts. Because, if he could catch, he'd have more than 8 receptions in his 4-year NFL career as a FB.

I understand it falls on the defense to secure the game at the end, but why put them in that position? It's the thin air of Mile High Stadium. Clearly, the Raiders D was tired from the Broncos playing hurry-up offense. Plus, the Raiders have a depleted D-line which includes two players signed just this week. Why would Gruden put the game in their hands?

Yet, on a critical 4th down play to maintain possession and run out the clock, there it was; a rock to Keith Smith, the absolute worst option on the team. Carr threw Smith an perfect strike and he still dropped it. But somehow that's not Gruden's fault? Do you want me to name the players who were better suited to catch that ball, starting with Donald Penn?

11:54 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Sorry, but that was a major let down for the team and the fans. Gruden has to be better. He wanted to come back and coach, and got paid insane money to do so. Just like any player or professional who gets paid at the top of their field, there's no margin for error when you're making that much.

I was disappointed when Gruden cut Olawali, but I understood his reasoning; that Smith would be a road grader for his smash mouth run game. That's what Smith did in Dallas. Difference is, the Cowboys weren't dumb enough to throw Smith the ball.

12:07 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

On the Gruden wanted to come back and coach point too, NY; where I am bent is the fact that a major overhaul to the roster (like we are seeing), wasn't necessary. We needed help in the Defensive Back group, the Linebackers, and Right Tackle. We got help in the DB and LB group. Donald Penn at RT has been stellar, and so has Kolton Miller at LT, but both had help from Lee Smith to chip away at Von Miller. Osemele, for whatever reason, hasn't played as well, he has given up the most pressures this season.
All of that to say that I hate how Gruden couldn't work with the talent he had when he was hired. I get cutting Crabtree for quitting on the team last season. I don' get trading Mack instead of building around him. I don't get cutting Chris Warren instead of Martin. I don't get trading Olawali when we retained Lee Smith (who could do what Keith Smith does, and catch the ball). I'm not sure that Gruden's roster choices equate to anything better that Reggie has done since he's been here, and this is his first year. Reggie's role has changed from Roster, salary GM; to just managing the Salary Cap. He now has very little say in the roster. If this roster demolishing continues, Raiders are going to be hurting for awhile.

1:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nate. NY you are ignoring the truth. The Raiders were unlikely to make the playoffs this year even with Mack.

Do you guys really think otherwise? Sorry to say it but if the answer is yes then you are more of a delusional Raider fan than I am---and I once held out home for Todd Marinovich, Schoerder, Marc Wilson etc lol.


Nate, glad to see you are appreciating the Miller draft pick. NY you have done a lot of complaining about not signing Bowman---not even it the league now. Seriously guys some realism please. Who did we have that was even remotely competent on D? Autry, Hamilton, McDonald, Smith,James, Hester--I could go on.

This year has the potential to be a great draft, Gruden deserves credit if that happens.

I think Gruden at some point in training camp looked at the team and knew they were light years away from a Super Bowl. He decided to do a full rebuild which is hard to swallow after so many years of crap.

You want to criticize his mistakes go for it he has made a few, but trying to look at it as he destroyed a great team is nonsense.

Already he has Carr playing better which is the most important thing.

Sandy

3:39 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Nate, you and I are on the same page. The roster moves were overkill. This team did not need the total dismantling that was proven necessary when McKenzie took over and the salary cap was dire. Osawali out and Keith Smith in is a perfect example, compounded by calling his number yesterday to do what he was not signed to do; catch the ball.

I must say, Kolton Miller has outperformed my expectations for the first two games.

Osemele was reported to have intentionally lost weight. Might not seem like a big deal but that could be a factor in his getting pushed around.

Sandy, you know me as the eternal optimist. Right? Honestly, to even suggest the Raiders would not have made the playoffs, why bother watching the games? You've already packed it in and stamped your ticket for Vegas.

Don't tell Lynch and some others who are playing their last season in the NFL, if only for one more shot. They had Derek Carr and Khalil Mack so, hey, why believe in the team?

IMO, the Raiders chances at making the playoffs diminished with moves made by Gruden, the most obvious being the Mack trade.

I didn't mention Bowman but you keep bringing us back to him. Do you know why Gruden signed Derrick Johnson and not Bowman? If so, I'm all ears. Bowman is younger and ranked higher by PFF. If you watched the games last year, you know the Raiders defense improved when he started in Week 5-6, and then he led the team in tackles for the entire season. So I'm not sure why you think Bowman is so bad. My guess (and that's all it is) is that he wanted too much money, and decided not to play if he didn't get paid. That happens, and he certainly wouldn't be the first.

Yes, Carr looked much better Week 2. But, for whatever reason, he wasn't prepared to play the first game. It's a long off-season, so that's a headscratcher, and cost the Raiders a game.

Suffice to say, the Raiders were competitive in both games, and possibly should have won both. So, yes, my expectation (delusional as it may be) was for the Raiders to make a run for the playoffs.

We had Gruden calling plays instead of Downing, Guenther running the defense, Carr, Mack, a top ranked O-line, improved defensive secondary, loaded WR corp, etc.

Not sure how you can even suggest we weren't a potential playoff team.

Anyone notice that it was former Raider OC Bill Musgrave calling plays and beating the Raiders in the 2nd half yesterday?

Suddenly, Case Keenam and Patrick Mahomes are the superstars of AFC West, and nobody knows what to make of Derek Carr. Think maybe Gruden told Carr wait til next year, and Carr stamped his Vegas ticket too.

6:09 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Mack had another strip sack last night, and helped the Bears D finish with six sacks and an INT.

Oh yeah, that's right; the Raiders defense wasn't that good with Mack. Somehow that's Mack's fault, instead of Ken Norton Jr. and Jack Del Rio and Reggie McKenzie.

Looks like the "Monsters of the Midway" are back, courtesy of Jon Gruden.

3:52 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

This analysis and video clips (link below) of a few key plays leaves no doubt that the defense was incapable of finishing the game. Watch the D-linemen just standing around. Irving was too tired to get set before the play.

https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2018/9/17/17868194/raiders-week-two-report-card-vs-broncos

Time of possession in the 2nd half was almost 2-1 in favor of the Broncos, and that's with them running hurry up offense the entire half.

In the end, bad playcalling and poor execution on offense left the game in the defense's hands in the second half.

6:54 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

With the Defensive players that Gruden drafted this year (Hall, Key, Hurst, and the DBs (Melvin, Gilchrist, Hall) and LBs (Whitehead, DJ, Wilmur) he brought in via Free agency, and Guenther as DC; if he had Mack in this line up; I can guarantee the Raiders would have made a playoff run. GUARANTEE IT! Why? Opposing teams would not be able to double/triple team Mack! It would free up PJ Hall, Irvin, and Hurst; and this defense would be comparable with the Rams consistent QB pressure! This would have been a Top 10 defense with Mack.

Without Mack, Irvin has been double teamed along with Hall, and now Hurst. Hurst has shown he cannot handle double teams in college and now the pro level. Irvin is tiring out before the end of the 3rd Quarter and has no gas left in the tank. Key is still trying to feel out his oats. Carradine and Rucker (who replaced Mack) haven't even made an impact. Between the 2 in 2 games, Carradine has 1 tackle and Rucker has 3 tackles. Hence why the Raiders re-sign Calhoun off the practice squad today. Irvin and Hurst lead the team in sacks with 1 a piece, Whitehead leads the team in tackles with 11, Gilchrist (a safety) with 10, and DJ with 9. Melvin has the lone interception. You cannot tell me that these numbers would not increase with Mack on the team. Mack has made the entire Bears defense better just with his presence in the last 2 games.
Hell yes I had playoff expectations this season with Mack on the roster. I still have playoff expectations, but they better figure out how to pressure the QB on the D-Line. They better figure out how to balance the running game and passing game between the players. It is the 3rd game of the season, and I expect the Raiders to beat the Dolphins. Anything less makes me more angry.

2:27 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I think the Raiders made huge coaching upgrades, despite my disagreement with some decisions Gruden has made. Even without QB pressure, the Raiders D remains competitive, which speaks to coaching and the upgrades made in the secondary.

But clearly Mack is a game-changer. He has as many strip sacks as the Raiders have total sacks. Pretty sad for the Raiders.

Watching Irving and crew late in Sunday's game says it all. This is not a competent group without its star player. Rookies will get better with good coaching, but vets are shooting blanks.

4:05 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

A little early in the season to be rolling out stats but I had to check.

Bears lead the NFL with 10 sacks.
Raiders are second worst in the league with 2 sacks. The only team worse is the Giants, with 1.

I don't expect the numbers to change much. It's not like the Raiders have a player that can register 5 sacks in one game. They don't!

4:20 PM  
Anonymous Raider00 said...


I think you guys are just dead wrong about Gruden being all powerful and making all decisions.

Maybe Gruden did say he wouldn't pay a defensive player big money, but so what. Mark Davis is still the owner. if MD says he wants Mack to stay, Mack stays, and Mark Davis sings his big paychecks. End of story.

And I'm suppose to believe Reggie Mckenzie earns a GM salary, but does not have the GM responsibilities ? You mean MDavis, out of the kindness of his heart, pays Reggie a GM salary...NOT TO BE THE GM!!!!!!! This makes no sense to me. Reggie does not have a guaranteed contract. MDavis could fire him tomorrow and not have to pay him, not to be the GM.

I think Gruden is only now starting to realize, Raiders have weak ownership, weak GM, weak roster, and Gruden is in way over his head.

9:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


IMO, the Raiders are still recovering from being broken down to the worst run franchise in the NFL. Yes, this goes back to Al Davis, believe it or not. It was so broken, that the coaches hired to this point, have been the bottom of the barrel. Gruden is/was supposed to be a big step up from Del Rio who should never be a HC. Dennis Allen was all that could be hired at the time because the franchise was a hot dumpster fire.Little by little, it's slowly being repaired, hopefully.

Reggie has been trying to work with his HC's at draft time to pick players the HC wants. Reggie wants to work with the HC and draft the kind of players the HC wants to have on the roster. Blaming Reggie for it all, is wrong. Blaming Mark, is wrong. Reggie has had to deal with new HC's and changes in philosophy.

It's still a work in progress and we can only hope that one day, it will get there. Some stability would be huge for this team, the turmoil and instability is hard on the players. Hopefully, Gruden will finally get this thing moving where it should be, obviously Gruden was not impressed with Del Rio's roster and it has been derooted again. Time, it's all us Raiders have and can bank on to hopefully get this thing turned around.

The Duke

9:40 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

"Dennis Allen was all that could be hired at the time because the franchise was a hot dumpster fire.Little by little, it's slowly being repaired, hopefully."
As opposed to keeping Hue Jackson who took a talentless roster to an 8-8 record the season before?

Del Rio was an upgrade from Dennis Allen, and brought camaraderie to the Raiders locker room, only to lose it after letting Musgrave go, and kept Norton. I will believe the Del Rio was the only coach who could have been hired at the time, but not DA. Hue Jackson could have been a great coach for us.

Reggie is now in charge of Football Operations/scouting. Gruden is in charge of the football team, including roster. Mark Davis have given Reggie some of his responsibilities dealing with day-to-day Football Operations. Mark Davis will trust Gruden's word over any roster moves, much like he did with Reggie. He doesn't care who he signs a check for, as long as Gruden wants him on the team.

Go back and look at CSN Bay Area Raiders, look at the archive of articles toward the end of last season. Reggie made it clear that the way Carr's contract was structured, it would leave room for Mack and Cooper down the road. Near the end of the season, he implicated that the Raiders and Mack had a verbal agreement similar to what Von Miller has; and they were getting ready to work the details. Gruden comes in, and all of a sudden, everything with Mack changes. Gruden, himself, admitted at the PC that he wasn't willing to pay Mack that much. Mark Davis made it clear that he wanted to keep Mack at whatever cost, but deferred to Gruden's decision. The ENTIRE roster falls squarely on Gruden's shoulders, including the Mack trade to the Bears. You can read it all in print; and then read all the current BS about not having the money.

10:09 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

The Duke, I admire your patience. Yours is better than mine.

Gruden will be fielding questions about Mack the entire season, maybe the rest of his coaching career. He brought that on himself. Mack will be Mack on any team he plays for. He's the best in the league. You don't trade the best. Gruden will look even more foolish if Mack is named MVP again..., and nobody should doubt that possibility.

Nate, that's exactly why Carr's cap figure goes down every year. It was front-loaded to make room for Mack.

Last week I would have said let Cooper go next year, but let's see if he can put up #1 WR numbers every week, or at least more than once every 6-7 games.

10:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...



Still hitting the Hue Jackson fable? Hue is doing wonders in Cleveland. Hue had to go, he wasn't what the Raiders were looking for at that time. Mark was taking over and I don't think Hue was his fav guy.

That is the problem when the franchise has to be rebuilt, there are many stages to it and as we can see, it takes a long time. We as Raiders, all hope for the best for the team and want a winner as soon as possible. Wanting and getting are 2 different things.

The decision was made by all involved to trade Mack. None of us will ever know what went on between the team and Mack in trying to sign him. Mack wasn't budging and he wasn't listening to the Raiders management telling him that there needs to be compromise to get a fair deal for both sides. Mack wouldn't and wanted to be the highest paid. Mark didn't want to throw 90 mill guaranteed at Mack, it is what it is. We as Raiders, need to get over the Mack deal. Yeah the press is having a field day with the trade and have elevated Mack to a new level of stardom that he would of never gotten in Oakland. We as Raiders, have to let it go and back the team. If you don't want to back the team and want to tear them down at every opportunity, then you are no better than the media who love bashing the Raiders.

So are you a Raider, or not?

Pilgrim

11:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well said Pilgrim.

Especially bashing Carr he is an awesome QB and a quality teammate.

Regards,
Sandy

3:49 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Sorry, Pilgrim, you say none of us will ever know..., then you fill in all the blanks with conjecture.

Joel Segal is Mack's agent. It's pretty clear Segal was negotiating on his client's behalf while also working in his own best interest for a huge payday $$.

It's likely that Mack was not involved until a decision was made on his trade.

The players and coaches (Guenther!) were all caught by surprise. Mack's two best friends on the team, Irving and Carr, tweeted only after the media reported the trade. These guys spoke with Mack every day and they had no clue. My theory is Gruden had a thorn in his side that Mack never participated with the team. He said as much in a news conference. And, make no mistake, Gruden is the only one making personnel decisions. If not, why would McKenzie allow Gruden to dismantle his entire team?

The Raiders traded Mack for future draft picks. To simply say, forget about it and move on is nonsensical. This trade doesn't end until it ends. That's when the Raiders make good on future draft picks and those picks are measured against what Mack puts down on paper over the next several years.

I'm rooting for the Raiders to make the trade work to their benefit, but you could draw from a pool of entire NLF rosters and not find Mack's equal. Raiders should not have traded him. To say so doesn't make anyone less of a Raiders fan.

5:06 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Pilgrim,
Just saying that Hue was a better choice at Head Coach at the time, than Dennis Allen. Mack wasn't budging on taking less than the verbal agreement (similar to Von Miller's contract) at Gruden's suggestion of taking less. I don't blame him.
Now Gruden wants us to feel sorry for him and his lame trade by saying, "A good DE is hard to find." NO KIDDING! SO WHY DID YOU TRADE ONE? This will haunt his return until he finds consistency in QB Pressure and sacks. Mack didn't want to be the highest paid DE, the rumble is he/Raiders verbally agreed to $65 million guaranteed with the rest of the contract details being negotiated. Gruden came in and suggested $30 million guaranteed. Would you take that after being offered $65 million? I think not.
"If you don't want to back the team and want to tear them down at every opportunity, then you are no better than the media who love bashing the Raiders."
I will always root and cheer for the Raiders. I DON'T ALWAYS have to back the team's decisions, especially when they are stupid ones that are detrimental to the team. It's called being an objective fan. JUST WIN, BABY!

6:39 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

This is all just discussion, and nobody should be offended by the opinion of others. It's clear we differ on Mack's trade.

Money can not be the issue when the Raiders had Mack under contract and didn't have to do a thing. You can say, well, Mack wouldn't have shown up. Well, neither did the rest of the D-line.

But if Mack didn't show up, then this season wouldn't count on his contract, and it starts over next year. Raiders then had 2 years to tag him at below market value. Sucks, but that's the business end of it, as agreed to by the players and owners in the CBA.

On a personal note, my fanaticism with the Raiders has always been about defense. Otis Sistrunk, Ted Hendricks, Hayes and Haynes, Atkinson and Tatum, Greg Townsend, Charles, Woodson, Howie Long... the list is endless.

Mack embodies all those former Raider greats, and he's arguably better than any of them. Watching him leave the team was a gut punch that's not something I can just "get over it." The last time a player of this magnitude was let go, Marcus Allen was wearing a Chiefs uniform... and I'm not forgetting Woodson. This is bigger than that. Like Allen, Mack was the face of the Raiders.

Honestly, I can't believe how some folks can be so cavalier about losing Mack. How is losing the best player on your team, in the prime of his career, part of any rebuilding process? Again, please don't insult any of us by saying it's about the money. That's not how the CBA works, and the Raiders didn't trade Mack with his best interest in mind.

4:18 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

You hit the nail on the head NY, and I absolutely agree with this statement:
"my fanaticism with the Raiders has always been about defense. Otis Sistrunk, Ted Hendricks, Hayes and Haynes, Atkinson and Tatum, Greg Townsend, Charles, Woodson, Howie Long... the list is endless.

Mack embodies all those former Raider greats, and he's arguably better than any of them. Watching him leave the team was a gut punch that's not something I can just 'get over it.'" To suggest this is just as absurd as the trade itself.

The great Raiders' teams of the decades were built on a balance of great, hard hitting defense and a steady dose of run and air. Like Al Davis said, "I wanted to build a team that was known for power like the Yankees, and speed like the Brooklyn Dodgers." His "power like the Yankees" came on the defensive side of the ball. His "speed like the Brooklyn Dodgers" came on the offensive side of the ball. We saw a glimpse of that same team with Mack and Carr in 2016. We all had hopes coming into this season that Gruden would utilize those 2 to bring it back. He imploded it! That's a hard pill to swallow, because like it or not, the Raiders are bigger than Jon Gruden's ego; which is exactly what the Mack trade was all about.

6:14 AM  
Anonymous Raider00 said...

Show me a sports team that's a perennial loser, and I'll show you a bad owner.

If it's true that Gruden wears the head coach hat, the GM hat, and I guess, if he makes all final decisions, even the owners hat. It is only because Mark Davis allows this to happen.

If Mark Davis is paying "GM" Reggie Mckenzie, to NOT be the GM. If he is allowing Gruden to run the entire organization from top to bottom, than Mark Davis has created a structure that is doomed for failure.

You can blame Gruden for everything all you want. But my question is, where is the owner ?

7:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...



Well, you can cry till the cows do come home and keep saying after every loss that they would have won with Mack. The deal is done, it's over, he isn't coming back. You can either get over it, or keep crying, that is up to you.

If Mack wanted 60 mill guaranteed, why did he get 90? The way you and the press play up Mack like he was the best ever and who ever pays him, will be instant winners. You also forget to mention that Mack wasn't going to play out his initial contract.He wasn't going to play for 13 million peanuts. Mack wanted to be the highest paid non qb and now he is, for a little while.

It sounds like you don't even like the Raiders, why don't you be a Bears fan?

Mom's apple pie

8:33 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

00-

Of course Mark Davis allowed it to happen. Davis started his ownership tenure by telling us publicly that he didn't have a clue. Until Gruden arrived, McKenzie was the man. Now McKenzie job is equivalent to head of scouting and reports directly to Gruden.

Mom's Apple Pie - let's just call you Jones-

You're not listening. Mack had no choice. Contracts are binding agreements. Sure Mack could have held out, then he would have to redo the final year of his rookie contract all over again.

If Mack held out, the Raiders would be no worse off along their D-line as they are right now and Mack's market value would be the same. Only, next off-season, the Raiders could negotiate a trade with a team which they actually know the compensation, i.e., draft order.

Meanwhile, the more games the Bears win, the worse the trade deal becomes.

If you don't believe this process bears (pun intended) watching as it unfolds right in front of our eyes, that's your choice.

9:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Why don't we just call you asshole and leave it at that. You spew on here as if you are an authority on all things Raiders. When in reality, you don't know a fucking thing.

Mack could of held out till the last 6 games, came in then and would not have to do a redo. Mack could of caused holy shit and you would of rather had that go down? He could of stayed held out and caused a worse media circus than now. Then what do you do? You have a disaster of a scenario and teams would not have given 2 1st rounders at that point.

Mack had the gun to their heads and he wasn't budging.

Everyone is watching the process, some see what they are doing and some just panic and bitch (you) trying to pretend you know what it is. Once again, you are the lonely fool on this site and you seem to think you have a huge platform and people are reading it. How dumb are you? Keep on with your bitching and being an outright asshole, as you can see, you aren't attracting very many posters, ever wonder why?

The anti asshole

11:40 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Holdout or not, Mack's market value doesn't change just because you say so. Raiders traded for unknown value. it would have been infinitely smarter to trade right before last year's draft or before next year's draft.

Re: this site. The sad truth is, Jones, you chased most everyone from this site with your constant diatribe, attacking anyone and everyone who doesn't agree with you.

So there's no delusion of any platform at all. Just a few of us left who like to talk Raiders without all the insults and bashing that you seem to enjoy so much.

1:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


You aren't talking Raiders, you are bashing and you couldn't care less what any one else has to write, you have an agenda and you purposely skip/deflect valid points. You are pushing an anti Raider agenda and you don't really care what other points are made. It's not a discussion to find the truth with you, it's pretty much the same point of view as mainstream media repeated ad nausea-um.

Troll away silly boy.

1:27 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Lol, Jones, you've been patting yourself on your back for as long as you've posted here... how many years now? You haven't been right about a single thing. Here we are and the Raiders are still stepping on their toes.

But hey, who's counting.

2:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DntsC5SUYAEPPUs.jpg

11:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NY,

I don't follow your logic you say that one can not say Mack's trade value would not go down, how can you say otherwise is 100%. I for sure would say his trade value would not go up. The number of times a team got two 1st rounders for a player you can count on one hand.

No one is happy Mack has been traded but the negativity on this site is overwhelming. I also find it bizarre that anyone here thought the Raiders were a contender this year. I think we all overvalued their talent except for apparently Gruden.

Regards
Sandy

1:40 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Sandy, I agree Mack's value wouldn't go up. If he doesn't play, that's pretty much a given. But consider too that we don't know what we traded for. Future draft picks have no defined value expect to say what round it is. That's huge. There are published point values for draft slots, and those values can be extremely different from the top to bottom of any round.

With that in mind, we might have been better off with one first round pick from a team that will pick in the top 1-5 slots, than two picks from a team in the bottom half of the first round in each year we gain their pick.

Raiders also gave up a second round pick, so two 1st rounders isn't as rosy as it sounds.

And if you're reading news and blogs, you know there were a lot of teams interested. And some of those teams could be drafting high. We don't know. And that's the point.

The trade apparently means a lot more to me than it does you and some others. I plan to follow it, starting with rooting for the Bears to lose. If the Bears end up with a top five pick in 2019, that will be a good start.

2:36 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Everyone keeps talking about 2 first rounders for Mack. Not true, Raiders gave up a 2nd Rounder as well. Not a good trade by Raiders, gave up too much in this trade for a premiere DE.

Sandy, how could any Raider fan be happy with the Mack trade? It is equivalent to the Raiders trading Derek Carr right now for 2 first rounders and giving up a 2nd Round, and having no one to replace Carr at QB. That is essentially what Gruden has done to our defense.

I'm trying not to be negative about it, but Gruden has yet to prove that this was the best move for the Raiders. The way Bruce Irvin gave up on the Doncos last drive last week shows the "leadership" on our defense. If he cuts Irvin, who replaces him? He called him out for it, but I can tell Bruce Irvin is not happy to be on this team right now. Go check his twitter feed too.

NY, I'm rooting for the Bears to lose as well. But it is not only where the Raiders pick, it is who the Raiders pick at these spots. Ed Oliver Jr (DT, Houston) would be an amazing pick this next draft. Everyone is riding Nick Bosa's jock, but the Bosa brothers can't seem to stay healthy (Nick Bosa's out for the season). Ed is listed as a DT, but is built like a DE and would do some serious damage. Zach Allen (DE, Boston College) would be another game changer.

Our second pick should be a Right Tackle or Running Back, depending on how Brandon Parker does. Greg Little of Ole Miss would fit the bill at RT, but not much in either department in the draft for RB or OT. Something to keep an eye on.

7:11 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

"I also find it bizarre that anyone here thought the Raiders were a contender this year."

The Raiders are one year removed from a 12-4 season in which Carr was a candidate for league MVP, under lesser coaching than what's in place now. Right?

Coaching upgrades were made top to bottom. The core players pretty much remained (Carr, Mack, Cooper, middle of the O-line, etc). And upgrades made to the secondary through free agency and Conley's return.

Why wouldn't we expect the Raiders to be contenders? Why wouldn't you?

Sandy, if the Raiders are hitting the reset button, which clearly they are, how many more years do you expect before they contend?

Are you talking 3-4 years, after the acquired draft picks have a chance to get acclimated?

What's a reasonable time line?

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