Monday, November 08, 2010

One Postgame Take - Above .500 Edition

Well, that was one hell of a Sunday. Inching through gridlock at 9 a.m, eating half-cooked meat in the mud, then filing into the Coliseum amid the revived chant: RAIII-DERRS! RAIII-DERRS.

The old Raider Nation mojo was back, big time. That was evident. Would the Raiders respond?

Not initially. The rain returned as the Raiders failed to score in the first half. But then the clouds parted ever so slightly, and so did the Chiefs as Jacoby Ford torched them to start the second half. Blast off. You know the rest of the story.

Now, Raider Take regulars know that I'm not fond of so-called moral victories. For example, when we laid that egg in Arizona, I didn't want to hear, well, if only Janikowski makes that kick, blah, blah, blah. The fact is he didn't, we sucked, and we didn't win, and if "ifs and buts" were candy and nuts, then every day would be Christmas.

But it cuts both ways. I'm not into immoral losses, either (to coin a phrase). Did the Raiders offense look ugly for a lot of the day? Yes. Was some of the playcalling questionable? Sure. Were there too many penalties (not counting the phantom ones called by that miserable crew of zebras)? Yeah. Were too many passes dropped? Absolutely. Should Cable has saved one of those challenges? Of course. Did we make it too close? Certainly.

But you know what? We won. Period.

Not only that, we won a game that we otherwise always lose. You know, that game--the close contest that always ends in tears, with some asinine prevent scheme, or a missed kick, or ill-timed penalty, or a ball dropped, or a turnover, all amid a hail of whining about the officials.

This time, the defense avoided the breakdown, and brought the beatdown. This time, one of our receivers (hello, Mr. Ford) literally ripped a victory out of the hands of the opponent. Once again, McFadden delivered in the end.

And Jason Campbell, even while looking like a cure for insomnia at times, just keeps delivering victories. I'll tell you what, it sure was nice to see a true professional running that two-minute offense. He looked totally comfortable and in command of the clock and the situation. I've waited years to see competence in such situations. Thank you, Jason.

This ultimately looked and tasted like a cultural shift. It felt like a mature performance. The team has become something, something we haven't seen for ages: a winner.

154 Comments:

Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Very nicely said, Take. There is something else I've noticed. Winning makes us all brothers (and sisters) again.

I don't want to jinx any of this because over the last seven years I've seen how quickly things can crash. But the lesson the team has learned (from Cable) is that they all play for each other. CJ, Panty and H will all know that the same is true in war as it is on the football field. On the battle field, the most important thing on Earth is the man next you.

You don't have to even like each other. You just have to know each other. You have to especially know that the others have your back. You have to know that they know you have theirs.

This inspires confidence in rookies and makes leaders of veterans.

And nobody seemed to understand that more than Cable. During his tenure he has completely rebuilt this team (17 new starters). I don't know who did the fantastic job of evaluating talent for '10 draft. But whomever it was, they were as good at evaluating heart as talent.

Cable is going to have some difficult decisions in front of him. The first will be to decide how to handle the QB situation. I agree with H that he will likely stick to his word. Not just because it's his word, but because he believes it's the right decision to make.

I don't believe that inserting Gradkowski will hurt this team in the slightest. Gradkowski is every bit a part of the team as Campbell. Also teams used to switch QBs all the time. It's only recently that it has become considered an insult to the starter.

Lamonica was constantly replaced by Blanda at the end of games because Blanda was far better at the two minute drill.

Cable has built this team from the ground up. In it's regard, I trust ANY decision he makes.

8:51 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

It is refreshing to see a team where one unit picks up the other and the team fights til the clock hits 00:00.

The offense flounders in the 1st half but the defense miraculously holds it down to a manageable 0-10 deficit.

The special teams gets off to a roaring start to start the 2nd half and breathes life into the stadium and juices the offense & D with momentum and energy.

A bogus penalty or inopportune penalty ... no problem. Move on to the next play make something happen.

The best attribute the Raiders demonstrated on Sunday was RESILIENCY. This, my friends, is the definition of a "will to win". This can only be captured by players that genuinely care about each other and fight for each other.

I hope we heal up over the bye week and continue this journey onwards and upwards.

9:49 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

oh cable please PLEASE, pretty PLEASE go back to grad!

look guys, we never know what we'll get with campbell. this dude is jekyll and hyde! one week we get the guy who beat SD, the next week we get the guy who laid a big turd at candlestick. this last game he laid a turd in the 1st half, then ford bailed his ass out in the 2nd and OT.

yeah, yeah we won BUT we need consistency at the most important position on the field. this guy isn't cutting it. he looks lost most of the time and his long passes are floating butterflies that receivers have to wait on.

the team reacts better with grad under center. i just think he should be the man.

10:05 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Ford really did save Campbell and the Raiders Sunday. Does anyone here think DHB (0-5 Sunday) would have gone over the defender to take away an INT, or lay out for the long ball? Perhaps. But I have yet to see this quality (or ability) in him.

It's unlikely Ford is going to put on that show every week. Remember, his day didn't start off too well, and he would not have been in there if not for injuries.

And until Campbell and Ford started connecting, the Raiders had penalty yards that more than doubled their passing yards.

Honestly, 2+/- first downs in an entire half is cause for concern, and should give Cable (and Davis) pause when selecting his starter.

I won't be upset if Campbell starts, but I hope Cable stays ready with the hook if Campbell looks like he did in the first half of the Chiefs game (QB rating under 9).

Let’s not be fooled that the Chiefs play D on the Steelers level.

Gradkowski is quicker to make decisions and get rid of the ball. That could be valuable against an aggressive D that the Steelers are sure to bring.

5:02 AM  
Blogger H said...

Good take, Take. Glad to see you are back at the game. Commute is a little tough for me. That 36 hour drive would wear me down for the game.

Nicely said Blanda.

On Cable and the QB. He has a bye week and has some time to evaluate the situation. Separated throwing shoulder is nothing to play around with. Also, by being non committal it keeps the other team a little in the dark from a preparation standpoint. Not sure it makes a huge difference. But, at least he’s not doing a Shannarat and saying his QB was injured in warm-ups when he wasn’t.

Calico,

On your "Cut it loose" statement on Cable.

He started saying that last year. Except he was saying, that at some point you are going t make a mistake. So, if you are going to make a mistake make it at 100 miles per hour.

They started the season making some mistakes at 100 miles per hour, made adjustments and are now executing properly at 100 miles per hour.

There will still be mistakes, but with all this aggression and flying to the ball, and executing your role in the play 100%, there is usually someone to back you up. Or, be in the right place at the right time. Bush with a 30 yard deflection, Branch with an interception on a deflection.

John Lynch in the Seattle game talked about the Raiders' luck in those instances. He said he believed you made your own luck.

Sunday was a game where they didn’t play their collective best and still won. In the 1980 America’s Game, Matt Millen talked about they knew they had “arrived” when they walked off the field after a win and knew they could have played better. It’s premature to say this team has "arrived”, but I believe they are en route.

H

5:08 AM  
Blogger H said...

OK, for all you Jarheads out there.

A quote from Ricky Brown

"Brown said of his stepping in for McClain, “It was great, you know, I mean, with the linebackers its kind of like the Marine Corps. If a guy goes down, you're gonna pick up his rifle and go fight.""

H

5:50 AM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

Blanda said,



"There is something else I've noticed. Winning makes us all brothers (and sisters)"
**********************************


Hey Gary, ya hear that ? Your our sister.


Get us something nice for Xmas.

6:20 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>

Hey Gary, ya hear that ? Your our sister.


Get us something nice for Xmas.
>>>>

How old ARE you anyway?

7:34 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

One thing I know. No one will work harder to be a part of the Pit game than Gradkowski. He'll want to show his hometown fans what he showed them last year.

My issue with Campbell is that he seems to latch on to one WR per game, with the inability to connect with any other. One week it's Murphy, then DHB, then Ford. Grad manages to find them all.


That said, I leave the decision to Cable. In case anyone hasn't noticed, Cable is very in tune with his players. He'll make the BEST decision at the time he makes it.

8:41 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

In Campbell's defense, DHB was pretty dismal on Sunday, dropping at least two catchable balls and not getting open. Can't blame Campbell for looking elsewhere.

8:46 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Without writing him off, I believe DHB still has a lot to learn. He doesn't appear to be the instinctive player that is somewhat requisite of his position. Hard work will only take you so far. It's really frustrating that the Raiders have placed so much reliance on him the past two seasons. Ideally, he would be watching (and learning from) someone else performing his job at a higher level.

9:04 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Posting this per request from frkyraider:

YE OLE BANDWAGON COMING BY!!! thought maybe i'd swing it on by Raider Take and see who might be jumping on after, what is it now, all of 3 straight wins? yes yes we know..."but things have changed now." pfft, yeah things have changed , we're winning!! thats whats changed. but .....i...thought it couldn't happen with Al still at the helm?... wrong again. this has all been done the "Raider Way". pisses some people off, thrills the rest of us.

Blanda hit the nail on the head long ago when he said the tickets will sell just as soon as the wins start coming. bingo!! 3 wins in a row...sellout!! the house was rockin!! cough*cough*they did have to have a two fer one sale but uh*cough *cough. hellova marketing plan i say!!! win a few in a row!! amazing marketing!!!

now as far as the kid Ford goes... holy crap did i read this right?

"Ford was okay enough. His route running was decent at times, but he dropped as many balls as he caught. I have to give him credit for not giving up though. But he needs to play better than that." -onanon

wow, let me start by saying i think maybe you might be holding this young man to a fairly lofty standard sir.

this young man in his first stint of actual meaningful playing time put up a game of, dare i say, Gale Sayers type digits!! ....he was o.k.

Rookie Jacoby Ford caught six passes for 148 yards. The last Raider with more yardage was Jerry Rice, who had 159 vs. Green Bay on Dec. 22, 2003. Jerry Porter also had 148, against Tennessee on Dec. 19, 2004.........yeah, he was o.k.

now haven't there been a few pretty good games mixed in there since? i could think of a few. but thats not it!!!

Ford became the first NFL player since 1963 to have 140 receiving yards and 150 return yards in a game (he had 158 on kickoff returns). The last was Gary Ballman of Pittsburgh in on Nov. 17, 1963, with 161 yards receiving and 159 yards on returns........he was just o.k.

that is 300 freaking yards that Man covered while holding the football.!!!! he was o.k. 300 yards, go run that, now do it with people trying to kill you. he did it in his first extended playing time wearing my teams Silver and Black colors!!! he was FREAKIN BRILLIANT!!!! geez, whatdaya gotta do to please some people. we're fans...we're supposed to be going nuts for guys doing things the likes of what this young man did. have some respect for the game. he's got to be better? i'll take 300 all purpose yards, a huge spark of a TD and repeated clutch catches when we needed them every single time. he was o.k.

frkyraider

9:04 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>
My issue with Campbell is that he seems to latch on to one WR per game, with the inability to connect with any other. One week it's Murphy, then DHB, then Ford. Grad manages to find them all.
>>>>

Not to mention that it almost appeared he just closed his eyes and winged it... especially on the pass that should have been intercepted to end the game in regulation.

Campbell NEEDS the running game to be excelling to play well, IMO.

Grads can play well either way... although neither is a blue-chip QB.

If the Raiders win the AFCW it will be done with the worst of the 4 starting QB's. The playoffs might be an option because of our defense, and McFadden this year... whoddathunkit?

I'm getting really anxious to see Schilens back on the field... I think a tall, possession receiver is a perfect mix with the speedsters we are trying to rely on now.

9:13 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Schilens status is still uncertain. If he is healthy Week 10, it will likely take a couple more weeks of practice before he is game-ready (something J-Mac alluded to that I happen to agree with). That's Week 13, at best.

This guy always provides a well-thought analysis after each game. It's a good read, and really details some of the good and bad of the game.

http://tinyurl.com/26xnzqa

9:33 AM  
Blogger H said...

A quick mea culpa. I previously posted we would be playing the Squealers after they were coming off a Monday night road game. I misread the schedule. Their Monday night road game was last night.

They will, however be playing a Sunday night game against the Patsies at home. This after the Patsies had the butts handed to them by the Brownies.

Now, under the hot hand theory, how about leaving Jacoby Ford in the lineup? Murphy and Ford, let DHB be the number 3 guy for a few weeks.

Ok, just why do reporters do this. Steve Corkran wrote an article with the headline, “Oakland Raiders coach Tom Cable changes tune, says Jason Campbell will remain the starting quarterback.” Cable said no such thing.

He said he’s considering it and would make a definitive decision next Monday.

Welcome back FrkyRaider. Your “Crew” shirt and mug for your grog are in the mail.

NYRaider,

I agree, but that kind of goes without saying. Coming back from the knee you just can’t step onto the field. My only real question is, were the doctors wrong with their prognosis? Besides, we got Khalif TD Barnes now.

H

10:09 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

My concern about Schilens is not that he's injury prone, but that he's a slow healer. Both last season and this one he went down and was only expected to be out a certain amount of time. Both times took about twice as long as expected.

The key for DHB (and Gradkowski seems to understand this) is that the QB has to take advantage of his size. He's tall, and he can leap. If you throw the ball high, he's the one that will come down with it.

10:20 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Also with DHB, if you throw the ball to him high, he's forced to use his hands and not his body to make the catch.

10:23 AM  
Anonymous JONES said...

"Also with DHB, if you throw the ball to him high, he's forced to use his hands and not his body to make the catch"

This is where DHB runs into problems, when he uses his hands, he can't catch. DHB likes to stomach the ball and trap it with his hands. When catching with his hands, he looks awkward and uncomfortable. Catching can not be a problem in the NFL, if you can't catch, you won't last.

JONES

11:21 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

The only pass I recall DHB dropping Sunday was the one where Campbell was rolling out and lazered a pass high and in front of him when he was WIDE OPEN. Not sure Jerry Rice woulda made that catch... I mean Campbell coulda lobbed it with both handss to him he was that wide open... and people blame DHB for it???

That was a HORRIBLE decision by Campbell... he deserves the criticism... not DHB for failing to make a spectacular catch.

11:31 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Below is a good critique of DHB from the same site I posted above.

DHB had five balls thrown his way, and two clear drops by most accounts I've read.
______________

"The only positive thing DHB did all game was bat down a ball that would have likely been intercepted when Jason Campbell forced a ball to him in triple coverage. But since he isn't on this team to bat balls down, that just isn't enough. He is also not paid to be a decoy so getting extra attention from the Chiefs isn't enough either. Plenty of receivers are keyed upon by the defense and still manage to get open. He had his chance in this game to make a play and he blew it. Campbell escaped the pocket and put a ball right on his hands in the endzone and he dropped it. That was inexcusable. Then on the Raiders final drive, he dropped another pass. It was a little high but very catchable... for most receivers. But DHB has proven incapable of pulling in a high pass. The ball just grazes his fingertips or simply goes right through his hands. So after a great week of catching the football, he is back to earth with another sad zero catch, two drop performance."

12:04 PM  
Blogger onandonandon said...

Thank God Cable got a clue. My faith is renewed! I don't know if Al sent word down or what, but keeping our most talented and most proven QB in the starting line-up was a no-brainer move from the get-go.

12:12 PM  
Blogger onandonandon said...

Scorpio, WTF are you talking about? How many games have you actually watched JCamp play. He's actually one of the most consistent QB's in the NFL and he's improved each and every season. The Redskins offense is worse with McNabb than it was last season. You want to talk about inconsistent: that's been the very nature of Ski's career. Drink some Tang brother, cause that Kool-Aid smells funny.

http://www.nfl.com/player/jasoncampbell/careerstats?id=CAM375235

12:15 PM  
Blogger H said...

Interesting item from Cables press conference..

Each week he sends a package of video to the league on the officiating. For example, he states the league agreed that Stevie Brown was not down by contact and should have gotten a touchdown against Seattle.

So he is sending his “largest” package to the league office of the year. One of the complaints was the ruling on Nick Miller’s fumble. He would elaborate no further.

Since it was brought up in questioning by the media representatives, I can only conclude they noticed it too.

H

12:20 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

It's weird, in some quarters, DHB seems above criticism. No matter how dismal his play. I don't get it.

I watched at least two balls go right through his hands on Sunday. He has 9 catches over the past six games.

Whenever our QBs or RBs or Oline register equivalent non-performances, they are criticized by all.

But DHB...He seems to be on some sort of Fan Scholarship.

12:23 PM  
Blogger onandonandon said...

Throwing balls up high so DHB can catch them with his hands??? DHB's tiny hands are his biggest obstacle to being even a worthy second-string NFL receiver; and we already know the kid can rarely beat out single coverage. Frankly, DHB should have been benched long ago.

No more experiments! No more politics. Put the best damn players on the field Al. I sense ol' Al is starting to get it, and its my hope that he doesn't go back to letting his ego get in the way.

12:24 PM  
Blogger H said...

Onandon,

It ain’t set in stone. Read the transcript of his news conference. He included in his hint that Gradkowski still isn’t where he wants him to be. And, he would not have a definitive answer until next Monday.

So, you can hold off on your celebration on Cable getting a clue. He’s had a clue for quite some time. It’s taken a bit for all the changes, and there have been many, to come to fruition.

H

12:27 PM  
Blogger H said...

By the way, I'm definitely in favor of sitting DHB in favor of Ford at the moment.

He's running decent routes, but still needs some work. His biggest asset is he never gives up on the ball.

For a shorter guy he's got a hell of a vertical. Watch the replay on that last catch in regulation.

H

12:40 PM  
Blogger onandonandon said...

Hey H; this isn't politics we're talking about and I'm more than capable of reading in between the lines. Key points are this:

1. Jason is a proven NFL starter and was brought in by Al Davis and Hue Jackson to run the new offense.
2. Jason started off very slowly; unlike Ski, Jason played in the same scheme for his entire career; therefore, the adjustment period was a little tougher than it would be for a QB used to being moved around from team to team
3. Al spent big bucks for Campbell; there's no way he's not going to see what his investment is capable of bringing to the team
4. Fact: Ski was never and never will be anything other than a GOOD back-up NFL QB. Unlike Campbell, he doesn't have the ability be a 5-year NFL starter, and the facts bear that out
5. Lastly, Cable is no longer saying that Ski is the starter. If that's not a significant change in rhetoric, I don't know what is.

I'm now 100% certain that Campbell is our starting QB for the Pitt game and beyond if he continues to play as he has both recently and as a Redskin for his 5 seasons as an NFL starter. I encourage the Raiders to continue to look for a better NFL QB, but Ski is not that guy. Don't say I didn't tell ya.

12:40 PM  
Blogger onandonandon said...

Agreed H on Ford. What I liked is that when he dropped a ball, it never caused a drop in his confidence. But more than that, Ford displays a natural instinct for the game; H-bey just doesn't have that.

12:42 PM  
Blogger H said...

One quick thing I meant to put in the last post. According to the announcers on Sunday, the Raiders lead the league in Time of Possession in the 4th quarter with over 9 minutes TOP.

H

12:43 PM  
Blogger H said...

Onanon,

All that is true, but as any intelligent guy in his position should do, he's keeping his options open. He's just leaning in a particular direction for now.

H

12:46 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Campbell has his moments. He seems to shine when he has time, and his running game is working.

But there is enough cause for concern when you consider the 49ers game and the first half of the Chiefs game, during which Campbell couldn't even tie his shoe.

I don't pretend to know who will be better next Sunday, but I have my concerns. Plus, I believe Ski can play with same intangible against the Steelers that started this QB controversy.

12:57 PM  
Blogger onandonandon said...

Another thing about Ford: he's an example of a raw talent who doesn't have all the fundamentals down, but who can still excel based on his natural football instincts. You can work your ass of all you want. Even when H-bey makes a good play, it seems awkward and accidental. This kid just doesn't have it. I don't even know why some are debating it. The only reason he's playing is because Al desperately want to get a return on his investment. But I'm guessing that Al will give up soon enough.

12:58 PM  
Blogger onandonandon said...

Yeah, well, the Steelers team Ski played against was pretty depleted on the defensive side of the ball (injuries to several starters) and they and a losing record if I'm not mistaken. So this isn't the same team. That Steeler team was a wreck.

Beyond that, having watched both QB's on other teams, I'm confident that Campbell gives us our best shot to win each and every week. I don't believe you can judge a QB on one or two games. Looking at their career trajectory is most important. Also key is how well we're playing right now. No QB has guided us to 3 games of this level of offensive outsput since Rich Gannon. That's nothing to scoff at.


There are little things that Jason does really well too: one example is how well he performs ball fakes and disguising hand-offs. That's important stuff and it helps the running game considerably. I hate to be hyping the guy, because I think he has a few glaring weaknesses: he's prone to be too conservative, can hold on to the ball too long, and at times won't move out of the pocket even though he has the athletic ability to do so. But his upside overcomes most of that, at least in terms of the QB's we have on our roster now. Ski is a good back-up. But he's not going to be an effective starter game in and game out.

1:08 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

All good points. I just remember Ski showing us all the traits of a well-oiled QB against the Steelers, some of which you point out as Campbell's weaknesses... he's prone to be too conservative, can hold on to the ball too long, and at times won't move out of the pocket even though he has the athletic ability to do so.

These are things that will hurt us the most against an aggressive D like the Steelers.

I'm not saying Ski should be the Raiders future, or even the everyday QB. But I wouldn't mind platooning these guys to play to their strengths. In that regard, I start Ski this week.

Side note: The Raiders are better now too. It should be interesting.

2:03 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
JC:
This kid just doesn't have it. I don't even know why some are debating it.
>>>>


Because many of us said the exact same thing about McF (myself included) and if not for missing a coupla games, he might possibly be leading the league in rushing right now.

I'll give skill position players three full years before deciding anything at all about them for now on.

3:44 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
Frankly, DHB should have been benched long ago.
>>>>

For which player?

Higgins? Miller? Not upgrades by any stretch of the imagination.

It seems everyone is throwing DHB under the bus because he isn't making enough spectacular miracle catches.

I'm sorry... but no NFL team relies on their WRs to consistently make spectacular catches... they usually look at the QB as the problem. I think the Raiders are doing the same thing.

If DHB had some game killing easy drops like against KC I'd be more concerned... so far the only WR with a game-killing drop is St. Ford vs. Houston.

Are we sure this debate isn't more about draft position than skill level?

3:55 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>>

If DHB had some game killing easy drops like against KC...
>>>>


I meant the horrendous KC game LAST season.

And yes, I threw him under the bus at the time.

3:57 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>

But DHB...He seems to be on some sort of Fan Scholarship.
>>>>>

Well if "fan scholarship" is what allowed McF to have his break out year after looking like a complete bust for two years... sign me up for the DHB fan scholarship!

4:04 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

McFadden was a runner up in the Heisman Trophy for crying out loud.

His skill set has always been 10x that of DHB. McFadden is a far better receiver.

And who would replace DHB? Just because we may not have a suitable replacement doesn't make it right. It's been discussed here many times.

That said, I put Ford in to replace DHB. That's a no-brainer.

If I'm an opposing DC, I'd be looking at the game film from the Chiefs game to see what I have to do to stop this kid. He is lightning fast, he can catch and run with the ball in open space. He's potentially a very dangerous weapon. And all for the price of a 4th round pick. Amazing how that works.

Kudos to the Raiders. It's part of this year's sensible draft I keep talking about.

4:29 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

St. Gruden talk bye week talk: I heard an NFL analyst today go on and on about how hands on Jerry Jones is, and how he will never change that... and then a few seconds later they asked him who he thought would be the Dallas coach next year... "Jon Gruden."

I'm like, either you don't know a thing about Gruden, or you are a complete moron. No way in hell he goes to Dallas.

I see Minnesota as a better fit if they guarantee him no Farve. No way does he put up with a gun-slinging QB that thinks he can call his own shots.

OTOH... AP would be his ideal player to build a conservative WC offense around.

Actually next years Oakland team would be pretty ideal too... if McF finishes the season like he started... Campbell would be a perfect conservative WC QB... he's just pretty clueless what to do right now with Jacksons offense... especially if the ground game isn't working.

As the KC game proved, he has the arm to throw down field, but I think he'd rather have a root canal than do it very often.

5:04 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
That said, I put Ford in to replace DHB. That's a no-brainer.
>>>>


Ford looks more like a slot receiver... even though he's so short.

I doubt DHB will ever be asked to be a slot... two different positions.


>>>
If I'm an opposing DC, I'd be looking at the game film from the Chiefs game to see what I have to do to stop this kid.
>>>


Or if he looked at DHB's Seattle tape.

Your chin must be bruised from all the knee jerking you do.


>>>>
He is lightning fast, he can catch and run with the ball in open space. He's potentially a very dangerous weapon. And all for the price of a 4th round pick. Amazing how that works.
>>>>

Ja theres lotsa future WRs that were drafted in the 4th round or later (Murphy, Ford, Schillens (if he can stay healthy)... one would think all the late round picks would equalize out a 1st rounder.

Funny it never happens. Everyone just keeps dwelling on the first rounders...

BTW... if Veldheer becomes a pro-bowler, doesn't that soften the blow on DHB? An o-tackle is what we passed up on.

5:12 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

BTW... kinda interesting how the IAAFers are now all focusing in on DHB!

Why???

- The coaching staff seems wonderful... and AL hired all of them.

- McF is our 1st half MVP even with missing 2 games. Al-guy.

- Seymour is the defensive MVP. Al-guy.

-Mitchell is prolly 2nd in our most improved player after McF... Al-guy.

-Tommy Kelly is having a standout year. Al-guy.

-Almost all this years draft picks are contributing!

Whats left for the Al-haters to whine about? Almost all of the former whipping boys are now having stand out years...

DHB is the last man standing.

Amazing.

5:23 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Gary -

You're not happy unless you can bitch about somebody else's opinion.

I responded to your assessment that DHB is the next Darren McFadden.

That alone tells me you have your head so far up your ass, you don't know which direction to walk.

McFadden actually came here with a resume.

And no matter where you want to play Ford, he goes after the ball. That's a quality I don't see in DHB.

DHB was 0-5 this week, and worthy of discussion here, of all places, on a Raiders blog.

5:48 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

I'm not focusing on DHB at all. I'm just rubbernecking the persistent defense of persistent mediocrity.

How come it's okay to call Campbell and other Raiders out for their shortcomings in real time, but not DHB?

If he wasn't a first-round pick, would you be defending him like this? Really?

5:51 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Gary:

I don't have a problem at all with giving DHB a chance to develop within 3 years.

However, I do think his snaps need to be reduced substantially when Murphy returns and Shillens gets back to 100% health and form.

Week 11 vs. Pittsburgh
* Murphy & Ford - primary WRs
* DHB - 3rd WR sets and to rotate in for both Murphy and Ford
* Shillens (if active)- 20 to 25 reps. to shake off the rust.

If and when Shillens returns to top form, the primary WRs should be Shillens and Murph. Ford should be the 3rd WR and DHB the 4th WR rotated into the game depending on the game circumstances.

The WRs playing time should be in real time on a performance basis.

Q: When was the last time DHB caught a deep ball?

Everyone talks about his ability to stretch the field, be a decoy, and his blazing speed. Guess what, Ford is faster and showed in 1 game he is a more credible deep threat. In 1 game alone he got behind the D for 3 deep strikes.

The BIG differences between DHB and Ford are instinct and improv. skills. Ford seems better at coming back for the ball and adjusting his body and hands to the ball.

As far as the "QB Choice" ... I don't see how it makes any sense to switch Ski in for Campbell after 3 consecutive wins.

Last 5 games
Campbell comes into Charger game in 2nd half and plays brilliantly. Down 24-15, Campbell marched the Raiders to a game defining 97 yard drive TD. (117.6 QB rating;, 13-18; 72%; 159 yards; 0 Ints; 1 TD; Win)

He then laid an egg in the loss to SF.

Excellent game vs. Denver (127.9 QB rating; 12-20; 60%, 204 yards; 0 Ints; 2 TDs; Win)

Excellent game vs. Seattle (120.9 QB rating; 15-27; 56%, 310 yards, 0 Ints; 2 TDs; Win)

Good 2nd half vs. Chefs (2nd half stats; 109.1 QB rating; 15-23, 65%; 211 yards; 0 Ints; 1 TD; Win)

In 9 halves of football (4.5 games played), Campbell has played well in 6 halves.

6:19 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

DHB is the last man standing.

True very true...Just sneaking in to let ya know the game is on...

http://www.firstrow.net/watch/31606/1/watch-nfl-network.html

Again tomorrow on NFL NetWork...


RT...Good Post...

PantyRaider...Watching Raider Football!!!/_

6:22 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>

However, I do think his snaps need to be reduced substantially when Murphy returns and Shillens gets back to 100% health and form.
>>>

I couldn't agree more.

Look... the guy still has a long way to go, obviously... but I think if our WORST problem is a guy that has already proven he is capable of torching a pretty decent NFL team (Seattle)... this is like tip-toeing through the tulips compared to previous years problems.

We have two lines that look capable of DOMINATION at times... I couldn't care less that our high draft pick WR might not pan out.

We are in the rest of the games this year if our lines stay healthy and playing this well... and thats including any playoff games too.

6:42 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
As far as the "QB Choice" ... I don't see how it makes any sense to switch Ski in for Campbell after 3 consecutive wins.
>>>>

I agree here too. I am FAR from being sold on him, but JMAC made a fascinating observation today... he actually _IS_ a little like Plunkett.

He looks awkward and lost at times... but in the end just finds a way to win.

I can handle that!

6:46 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

The fact that we are debating the merits of 2 QBs who are capable and how many snaps DHB deserves shows you how far we've come.

I do think that when you get to this point of fine tuning, cleaning up mistakes, and ultimately gaining a competitive advantage, it is vital the playing time is distributed.

If DHB is taking away too many of Ford (or Murphy) snaps, it does matter.

The happy medium is to find a way to put the best players on the field as much as possible while giving other rotational players an opportunity to play and contribute.

6:56 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Wednesday: NFL NetWork Eastern Time

2:15 AM NFL REPLAY: KC vs. OAK

2:15 PM NFL REPLAY: KC vs. OAK

Watch It Here:

http://www.firstrow.net/sports/american-football.html


Pay attention to how far off the throws are to "DHB" while how close they are to Ford...Absolutely no comparison so it's on the "QB" NOT the "WR"...

Pay attention to how far off "JC" was most of the day...We should have lost if not for their "DB"s being unable to catch piss poor balls thrown right at them and our "WR"s coming up with great catches...

PantyRaider...My Bye Is Great Watching It All Again -n- Again!!!/_

7:40 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Vote Ford Rookie Of The Week Here:

http://www.nfl.com/partner?partnerType=rookies&module=HP_headlines

7:52 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

The point about DHB is a vital one because having a weak link at WR can hamper an Offense. Do all the fans want the best players on the field? PROBABLY. This is 'whining'? It's not whining, it's another big piece of the puzzle that Jacoby Ford showed us all on Sunday.

Jacoby and Murphy sounds a whole lot better than DHB and Murphy. It gives the Qb more options. That's a big part of the Offense. Just because the "crew" whines about it being mentioned, doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed.

Pittsburgh will need a ton of blitzing to stuff the run and force Ben to cough it up.

JONES

8:02 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Oakland Raiders Stats: Bye Report

"O"-#9
Pass-#22
Rush-#2
Scoring-#2
"OL"-#30

"ST"s
Kicking-#2
"FG"s-#1
Punting-#11


"D"-#7
Pass-#3
Rush-#26
Scoring-#21
Sacks-#2
INT's-#26 Tie

During the Bye our "D" stats may improve..."O" may fall while we are ital...

PantyRaider...Back To My Bye -w- NO Debates!!!/_

How Nice!!!...

8:08 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

I saw balls go right through DHB's hands. That's not on Campbell.

If Campbell gets rapped for missing DHB, why can't DHB get rapped for not making catches that hit his hands?

Trust me, I really don't want to talk about DHB. I'm just sort of fascinated by the urgency to defend and even celebrate his mediocrity.

8:17 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

McFadden has become a MAN, it reminds me of Todd Christensen describing Marcus Allen ..."He was a MAN, I mean a real Man"..that's the way McFadden is running now. He is busting them up, running around them, he is making them look like High School players. Saw a good run here and there from him in the past, but now he has become a MAN.

Give the O-line Kudos for the holes, I never thought this group could play this well. It looks like a well oiled unit. The Defense is COMING and playing very inspired ball. Seymour, all of a sudden he is playing All World, where has that been? Jacoby was by far the star of the game, Cable in the Locker room is HILARIOUS.

JONES

8:17 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

In 13 starts in 2006, in the worst offense imaginable, Alvis Whitted caught 27 passes for 299 yards for the Raiders.

In nine starts this year, DHB has 19 catches for 266 yards.

In other words, in a much better offense, DHB is putting up numbers comparable to Old Man Whitted's swan song, when people were laughing at the notion of Whitted being a starter.

Yet I can't ask for better? Really?

8:27 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
Trust me, I really don't want to talk about DHB.
>>>

No, I don't trust you.


>>>>
I'm just sort of fascinated by the urgency to defend and even celebrate his mediocrity.
>>>>


Translation... THANK GAWD I STILL HAVE SOMETHING TO PROVE AL IS AT LEAST PARTIALLY INCOMPETENT!!

Keep clutching the DHB crutch IAAFers.

Its all you have left!

8:46 PM  
Blogger x said...

The ball needs to be thrown high to DHB?

Are you kidding me!

The kids weakness is catching with his hands.

And the balls were thrown closer to Ford than DHB v KC?

Ford had to rip a pass out of a DB's hands. He went after that OT throw and dove to catch it - Campbell even commented to that affect after the game. Meanwhile, the Raiders continue to try to get DHB involved early and he let's the first pass of the game bounce off his chest.

I don't mean to dump (or focus) on the kid. He works hard and has a good attitude. I want him to succeed. I just think he should sit some snaps, especially now that Ford looks to have emerged.

And comparing him with McFadden is a bit lame. McFadden was oft injured his first couple of years and he also shared carries with Bush, while DHB has been getting virtually every snap at WR. McF also deserved a long look because of his pedigree from college. DHB wasn't even named an All-American in his conference.

I just don't get the fan scholarship. I guess some fans just bought that pre-season memo about DHB being the next great Raider WR hook-line-sinker.

In summary, I'm rooting for him to improve and succeed. Just think he should sit some snaps.

9:00 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Gary, of all the things available to celebrate about the Raiders today, must I also celebrate the mediocrity of DHB?

If it was simply a matter of ripping Al Davis, then I'd join others here in ripping Al's big quarterback acquisition, Jason Campbell, right?

I keep hearing that DHB's shortcomings are Campbell's fault. Both are Al Davis picks.

So please untie that knot for me.

9:00 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

DHB Worship Syndrome:

Shouting down anyone who says prior to the start of the season that we need to acquire more talent at wide receiver, then saying later that you can't ask for DHB to take a seat because we don't have sufficient talent at wide receiver; and then calling anyone who criticizes DHB an Al Davis Hater because he's an Al Davis pick, while blaming Jason Campbell, an Al Davis pick, for DHB's shortcomings.

Wonderful.

9:12 PM  
Blogger x said...

I just don't get the Al-love.

I respect his history, and he's one of the reasons I became a Raider fan 35 years ago, but as RT has stated....one has to also blame him for the team's failures if you're going to give him credit for its success.

But then again, a 7 year rebuilding plan is perfectly acceptable in the parity-driven NFL, right?

Even if within that 7 years, records have been being broken for unprecedented levels of mediocrity.

I wish I had as short a memory as those blindly loyal fans of Al.

9:20 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

Well, there was 7 years of torture before this, there is still that to say Al Has lost it. Things are different this year than in those past 7 years, wonder what it is? Must have been the overhead projector? I think that's when the corner started to turn.

JONES

9:22 PM  
Blogger x said...

Speaking of not having sufficient talent at WR, Terrell Owens would look pretty good in silver and black right about now. He looked like he could still ball v Pittsburgh last night.

NFL Network just had a nice piece on the KC game and Ford looked mighty good on a couple of comeback routes. Flowers was absolutely terrified of his speed.

And Raiders held KC on five 3rd and 1 plays - brilliant!

9:28 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Al gets a lot of credit from me right now; for the same reason, as X says, that I held him accountable for our record-setting streak of futility.

I wasn't the one trying to convince everyone that Al Davis didn't have his fingers in the football pie and wasn't in control of the draft, free agency, etc.

That wasn't me.

Therefore, I am in a perfect position to give him credit for our mounting success.

9:32 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

Who was saying Al wasn't involved in those bad years? I remember them saying Art Shell was responsible for drafting Huff. That Gruden was at fault for many years after himself because he screwed the Raiders with all his lousy personel moves. Kiffin was at fault for being given too much control. Up is down, back is front. It was the master plan all along.

JONES

9:49 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Review the film, guys. And review the post. When DHB catches the ball it's almost always with his hands away from his body, either reaching up or reaching out. It's when he tries to catch it with is body that he winds up losing it. Um, which is why players are coached not to use their bodies to catch the ball.

DHB has had two 100 yard games this season. I admit I'd expect more from a number one draft choice. But both of those games he showed what he was capable of doing.

DHB DOES have small hands. But they don't keep him from catching the ball, they keep him from fighting for it. Something you have to do more in the NFL than in college.

I don't think DHB could take the ball away from the defender as Ford did. The DHB option would have been to simply knock the ball away.

I can now hear you say, "Well, you just admitted that Ford is better, so you contradicted yourself!"

Well, you'd only say that if you were an idiot. Because I didn't say who SHOULD start. I simply said how I think they should play the guy the WILL start.

But I will say this. Saying that DHB plays because Al Davis demands it is really, really stupid. Cable has dumped JaMarcus Russell, dumped at least two highly paid free agent acquisitions, and demoted Jason Campbell. I have to say that Cable has proven beyond reasonable doubt that he makes the decisions as head coach. It's no longer a mystery folks. Tom Cable is not Al Davis' puppet on a string.

If DHB is playing, it's because Tom Cable (and likely Hue Jackson) WANT him to. If you want to know why, ask him. Or ask JMac to ask him.

9:52 PM  
Blogger H said...

I’m in the Calico Jack camp on DHB for now. Not ready to give up on him. But, let’s back off on him starting for now. Rotate him in for the three wide sets. Shillens though, I would keep to 10-12 reps at first. 20-25 reps get him close to 40% of the plays. That’s a little heavy for first time out.

Heck, I say put Barnes in the slot. He’s shown he has good hands.

Gruden to Dallas. Interesting. Jason Garrett has been the “Coach in Waiting” for a few years, so he is probably the betting favorite. But, Gruden could work. Dallas is just the type of team he seems to coach best. Fairly veteran team like he built in Oakland and inherited in Tampa. Pretty mobile quarterback with good running backs. Yep, it could work.

But, their defense is a shambles this season. In the last seven games the LOWEST point total they’ve given up is 24 and for four of those the low was 34.

H

4:43 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

H - Barnes is scary as a receiver. Was I the only one holding his breath on the TD?

I think we have to stay objective about DHB.

In simple terms, Ford goes after the ball, while DHB waits for the ball to come to him.

To me, that's a substantial difference between these two guys and the reason Ford stays on the field.

Sure, he may be prone to making rookie mistakes, but it's not like the Raiders are carrying experienced veteran WRs to play in his stead.

Play your best players, period!

Just like I'm ok with starting Campbell if he's the best option at QB.

With Campbell, I can appreciate his terrific play in 2.5 games since replacing Ski, but it's the 1.5 games during which he was clearly asleep at the wheel that concerns me (and remember too why Ski replaced him to begin with).

It's nice to have options, and even better when you know how to use them.

4:54 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>
But, Gruden could work. Dallas is just the type of team he seems to coach best. Fairly veteran team like he built in Oakland and inherited in Tampa
>>>>>

Uhhh... he thought Al was too controlling so he'd go to a Jerry Jones team???

When pigs fly.

The Vikings are 3 million times more likely:

-Hands off owner
-Better overall team
-Leagues best RB to build a conservative offense around.
-Better defense


The Cowboys are a horrible fit at best, the Vikings a nearly perfect fit.

It'll be the Vikings, or the booth for St. Gruden next year, IMO.

6:35 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
Raider Take said...

Gary, of all the things available to celebrate about the Raiders today, must I also celebrate the mediocrity of DHB?
>>>>

Funny I didn't see that after the Seattle game.

But if it makes you feel better (because you were wrong about just everything else)... you are right about DHB!!

This team is dead in the water because of DHB's mediocrity... and our moronic owners insistence of relying on inexperienced WRs.

THE SEASONS OVER BECAUSE DHB DROPS SOME FOOTBALLS SOMETIMES!!

Happy now?

6:59 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Nice try, but being fascinated by DHB Worship Syndrome has nothing to do with thinking that the season is over or that the world is coming to an end.

Try this on...

"If it makes you feel better, you're right about Jason Campbell, he's to blame for DHB! The team is dead because of our owner's moronic insistence on using ineffective quarterbacks! The season's over because Campbell throws errant balls to DHB!"

You can criticize Campbell, but I can't criticize DHB. Both are Al's guys.

The Raiders change, but the double standards remain the same.

One rule...

7:08 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>
Shouting down anyone who says prior to the start of the season that we need to acquire more talent at wide receiver,
>>>>

I agreed that veteran help would be nice... but unlike you, didn't pound my hands on the ground when they decided not to.

The coaching staff obviously decided it was necessary. Considering they have been right about everything else this season, not sure why you are so convinced they are completely wrong here.

Maybe you are watching the practices and know more than the coaches or something.

Not like you havent got everything else wrong about the Raiders lately or something.




>>>
then saying later that you can't ask for DHB to take a seat because we don't have sufficient talent at wide receiver;
>>>>


Lie number 2. I've already said his role should be diminished if he isn't more consistent... especially if ScHillens and Murphy come back.

>>>
and then calling anyone who criticizes DHB an Al Davis Hater because he's an Al Davis pick, while blaming Jason Campbell, an Al Davis pick, for DHB's shortcomings.
>>>>>


Hey... I just pointed out its interesting how all you IAAFers are dwelling so much on DHB... and pointed to evidence of all the other whipping-biys you used to whine about are now key players for the team.

I guess it pissed you off.

I guess I don't blame you.

Wonderful.

7:12 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
You can criticize Campbell, but I can't criticize DHB. Both are Al's guys.
>>>>

Hint:

QB's are a little more important than WRs in the NFL, RT.

I've criticized GANNON while in his prime before (just ask JC)... its a position I focus in on like a LAZOR BEAM. Who brought him in (or where a person is drafted) is immaterial to me.

WRs... just a small cog in the machine.

Now explain why you are so focused on DHB?

It couldn't be because Al picked him in the first round or anything?

Be honest... Little Baby Jesus is watching how you answer this.

7:18 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

The answer is simple: We want to get better.

My observation that DHB is a point of weakness has nothing to do with his draft status.

It's persistently defending his mediocrity that has something to do with his draft status.

You're tied up in a knot.

I'm on Al's side, because I support his pick, Campbell, at what you say is by far the most important position, quarterback, as not responsible for DHB's mediocrity.

By blaming Campbell for DHB, you are saying that Al screwed up at the most critical position on the team.

Yet I'm the Al Hater. Nice try.

7:49 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Funny how even the slightest criticism draws the dreaded "The Season's Over!" label from Gary.

Gary said: "Considering (the coaches) have been right about everything else this season, not sure why you are so convinced they are completely wrong here.
________

This statement coming on the heels of another statement in which Gary called for the firing of coaches after the 49ers game.

And since when do coaches make personnel moves for the Raiders?

8:16 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

To an extent, I agree with H. Frankly, I think we should be rotating ALL of our healthy WRs. We have sufficient speed everywhere you turn to stretch the field.

Also, if you watch tape, DHB DOES clear out areas of the field for Miller and others. Apparently to other teams he's the most terrifying non-terrifying WR in the league. Consistently I've argued that DHB is going to have to give a reason to be terrified of him in order for him to provide what the system asks of him. But they seem to be afraid of him without proof of life.

We're about to have a full blown media inspired QB controversy. It's now reported that Davis wants Campbell. And if that's what Davis wants, everyone is going to have knee jerk and say they want Gradkowski.

Let's see now. Who are really poor draft picks (granted there has been ONE pure bust).

1. Nnamdi - Why does Al feel compelled to draft a speedy DB in EVERY draft?

2. Gallery - Several of us argued that Gallery's wingspan was too short to play outside. Inside he's a Pro Bowler.

3. DMC - Should have picked some other guy, I guess.

Over the last three seasons our drafts have been stellar. It's true that JRuss was a bust, but he was the right call at the time. The Raiders are not responsible for Russell's personal issues.

But other than that, our first rounders have taken some time to develop. Are you horribly disappointed in how Nnamdi developed? Gallery? DMC?

Three out four slow developers, each turning into one of the best at their position I'll take any day of the week.

DHB is now in his second year. 9 catches last year. So far this year there are two 100 yard games.

RT, your basis for criticizing those of us who have patience for DHB is off base - totally unjustified. Whether or not DHB was an "Al Davis pick," the pattern suggests we be patient with DHB.

8:25 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

There's a difference between patience and defending mediocrity and blaming Jason Campbell for it, and telling me that the WR position is just a negligible cog in the offense, and that I didn't see DHB dropping catchable balls with my own eyes on Sunday, etc.

Truly, there is.

It's the same old bait and switch. People try to sell me these ridiculous concepts, and when I don't buy them, I'm suddenly cast an Al Hater, DHB Hater, etc.

It's not effective or logical. Give it a rest.

8:57 AM  
Anonymous JONES said...

"Who brought him in (or where a person is drafted) is immaterial to me."

What a crock...you keep jumping to both sides of the fence. NY is right, you just want to argue and beat your chest like drunk teenager. Then you have the nerve to call others 'child'. The "crew" is nuts, there is no sense even trying to reason with them. They will jump on both sides of arguments and make false statements to try and make themselves the 'guru'. No sense, can't reason with in....

JONES

9:08 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Take, give what a rest? I haven't accused you of anything. "Thou dost protest too much." The Shakespearean meaning, of course, is that perhaps your fear of what folks might possibly accuse you of might have some validity.

Sure, you're just attacking mediocrity. First, mediocrity in Gallery, mediocrity in Nnamdi, mediocrity in Run DMC. Now mediocrity in DHB.

By now, the complaints are becoming mediocre.

9:13 AM  
Anonymous JONES said...

Balanda says......"But I will say this. Saying that DHB plays because Al Davis demands it is really, really stupid."...

Then Balanda says.....
"We're about to have a full blown media inspired QB controversy. It's now reported that Davis wants Campbell. And if that's what Davis wants, everyone is going to have knee jerk and say they want Gradkowski."...

HUH?!!!which is it? Flip flop over the argument fence....how can you begin to reason with these people(?)?

JONES

9:17 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Blanda, you're the one who said "those of us." Therefore, I was responding to "those of you," not just you. Read the threads.

9:18 AM  
Anonymous JONES said...

"Sure, you're just attacking mediocrity. First, mediocrity in Gallery, mediocrity in Nnamdi, mediocrity in Run DMC. Now mediocrity in DHB."

All kinds of ammo today....Yes, all these players were very mediocre, Dmac just became good, up to this point, he wasn't much. Gallery, drafted to be a stud LT, he was poor his first couple years, he was injured most of last yr, he is coming into his own at G, Nnamdi was a project, was at safety, took a while to grow into a corner. Don't make out like these players lit it up when they began their careers.

Is there some kind of manual you guys read from about 'arguing'? You all use the same tactics. You all act like you have never been wrong when in fact you have all been wrong in many areas. It's like the past 7 years has been wiped off the reality train, like it never happened. INSANE.

JONES

9:25 AM  
Blogger H said...

Gary,

The Tuna spent a few years working with Jones to fairly good success. Besides, I was talking about the team’s personnel. That’s the fit. Working with ownership is something he would have to decide on if approached.

As for DHB, there is a pattern that appears to be developing. But, before I get to that I would say he has improved and the changes at quarterback have certainly helped ALL the receivers. One of the reasons we are running better is better quarterback play. You don’t see seven and eight in the box as much as we did last year.

The pattern I see is that if DHB has success early in the game, he performs well (Seattle). If he starts poorly the rest of the game goes the same (the Chefs). He seems to suffer from Long Term Memory Syndrome. In the heat of the game his earlier mistakes stick with him. This causes him to revert to old habits that have nothing to do with the size of his hands. I’m sure at 6’ 2” his hands are plenty big enough.

He’s probably lighting it up in practice now and needs to let it go and just “cut it loose” like Cable has been preaching. Also, he’s a speed guy, but he is also pretty good size, so he could learn to be a lot more physical with the DB’s off the line and fight for the ball. He blocks pretty well and should use some of that mentality in catching passes. Cliff Branch was a speed guy, but he didn’t let Mel Blount intimidate him. He gave as good as he got.

Interesting stat on the penalty front. While we are tops in the league in penalties per game, we are sixth in the league in opponents penalties. Our opponents are committing almost eight per game. I believe part of that is we are much more physical on offense and defense this season. If you subtract their penalties from ours the net is about four.

Just making observations.

JMNLHSO

H

9:42 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

-Nnamdi worked his way to greatness, and clearly is one of the best Raider picks ever.

-Gallery has descended to G (albeit a good one), but check his frequency of false starts this year.

-McFadden mostly battled injury early on. But he was a star in college and is now finding that level as a pro.

-DHB has no resume to speak. He has been anointed a Day 1 starter role based on draft position, which was grossly overstated to begin with. Forget last year's draft class. I think you would find DHB pretty low against even this year's draft class (particularly based on reps).

Of course we were all happy to see DHB play so well against Seattle, but he's done nothing outside that game to warrant the extensive playing time he is still being awarded. It's time to redirect his position to a merit-based selection process.

Besides, after the Chiefs game, it would be insane to not give Ford more reps.

Right now, the Raiders two best WRs are both 4th round draft picks. It is what is. Go with it!

10:37 AM  
Blogger onandonandon said...

Blanda, you are truly a classic. Nothing that has annoyed me more over the years than the Al jockers who defend Al's every move after losing a significant percentage of games in the last 20 years. But that aside, I have ALWAYS given Al credit when he deserves it, and even though he's notoriously slow at adapting to the progress of the game, there are periods where he snaps out of it - unfortunately this is often followed by jealously of those who get more credit for the team's success than Al himself.

Look, I stated that Cable is Al's lap dog and I'll state it again. I stated that Hue Jackson and Al agreed on bringing Campbell on-board to lead Hue's offense and I'll state it again. I stated that H-Bey is an Al pick and he therefore wants to see a return on his investment: Al even admitted in his last press conference that he can be too patient with some of the guys he likes. So yeah, I'm not a black and white guy. I praise Al for seeing that Ski doesn't have the skill set to lead this offense. I praise Al for hiring Hue Jackson (he should be our head coach IMO) and taking away control of the offense from Cable, who was abysmal last season. I scoff at him for keeping one of his worst draft choices of all time in the starting line-up, despite his lack of production (stretching the field?? LOL). I scoff at him for overestimating the value of speed vs. other intangibles, such as route running, hand-eye coordination, ability to catch the ball in traffic, lateral speed and intelligence when it comes to the WR possition. H-Bey wouldn't be in the starting line-up on 99% of the teams out there for shit's sake.

The other thing I don't get is why the Al jockers need to continue attacking Raider fans. You have to be an absolute moron if you think anyone here doesn't want to see the Raiders win just so they can say that Al is doing a shitty job. People who come to this group are hard-core fans; all of us! So give this line of bullshit up please.

11:02 AM  
Blogger H said...

No Onandon, it is you who are classic.

From the time Cable took over two years ago until now we have 17 new starters. Our drafting has improved. Our free agent acquisitions have been specifically targeted to improve the team and now make a big superstar splash.

Our defense is playing the type of defense we have all called for and the one Marshall and Cable have wanted. Several of Al's favorites are gone (Russell, Hall, etc).

And all you can say is "Al's lap dog". If that were the case and it's all Al all the time, then there should be no difference in this team from the previous six before Cable took over.

You can't have it both ways. It can't be Al's lap dog when were loosing AND Al's lap dog when we are winning.

H

11:21 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

I personally think that Al Davis might be righting the ship.

I've always believed that he has a lot of fingers in the pie, is the trigger puller in the draft and free agency, and has a strong influence on the roster and, at times, the depth chart.

For years, I was told that these beliefs were wrong and unfounded.

But without those beliefs, I wouldn't be able to give him what I believe he has earned for the first half of this season: the bulk of the credit.

Go Al Davis! Go! Keep it up. Don't stop now. Don't listen to the folks here who say this is no time to be critical of our weak spots. When you see weakness, fix it. Aim high. Play your best players. Go for it. Win the division, baby. Go Al!

11:31 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

"Several of Al's favorites are gone (Russell, Hall, etc)."

You forgot Moss.

Russell was proven lazy and taking drugs, and Hall dissed Davis with his comment about taking Al's money (and with his horrible play). IMO, the HC had little or nothing to do with either move.

In 1997, Marcus Allen made it clear to the world that all personnel decisions are made and/or cleared through Al Davis.

IMO, the only difference between then and now is that Davis is no longer physically capable of overseeing practices, so the day-to-day coaching is left to the coaches (as it should be).

Davis simply isn't physically capable of the level of oversight he once demanded. But, at the end of the day, decisions are still made by or through Al Davis. Been that way since the beginning of time.

Like RT said:

"Go Al Davis! Go!"

12:09 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
Besides, after the Chiefs game, it would be insane to not give Ford more reps.
>>>>


Ok... you are now the 2nd or third person to say this as if people are arguing against it.

If I see numerous people relying on the exact same strawman argument... all it does is exemplify herd mentality.

Yes... by all means rely less on DHB... but he still needs to be included in the mix unless you don't wish to see if he can continue to improve.

I still don't understand all this focus on our number three receiver statistically. We are a FG away from having the most wins in the NFL... and by reading this thread one would think we are in last place.

12:14 PM  
Blogger H said...

NYRaider,

Moss was part of the "etc", but he was gone before Cable took over. Primarily I was refering to the timeframe after he was named interim head coach.

The first move after Cable took over was kicking Hall off the team.

So, now Al's a genius after all the folks that wanted his head on the proverbial silver platter?

So, Cable has zero to do with all this?

H

12:18 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
H-Bey wouldn't be in the starting line-up on 99% of the teams out there for shit's sake.
>>>>


Complete and unmitigated BULLSHIT.

There are some very fine teams that are having injury problems that would be all over someone like DHB... Indy comes to mind. I think they might be playing people from the CFL soon if they keep losing WRs.

This is the "pro-bowlers at every position" mentality that drives me insane.

All NFL teams lack depth at WR, particularly after injuries.

JFC... the IAAFer herd is back!

12:21 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

There are decisions being made that aren't the classic Al moves. The team has taken on a different personality like it did when Gruden was HC. Al Davis' fingers don't seem to be in every pie as it was in the 7 years before it. Personel decisions seem to be more of a collective scheme than one man dominating. The game plans seem more diverse and aggressive.

If it is because Al has changed his belief of what works in the NFL, then kudos. Going back decades of watching Al Davis and knowing how he likes to run the football team, it would seem odd that he would turn on a dime at this age. So I am inclined to say that Al has finally loosened his grip. Al has let go of his way or the highway, he is listening to the players and coaches, not just dictating. If this is the case, good for Al either way.

JONES

12:41 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
My observation that DHB is a point of weakness has nothing to do with his draft status.
>>>>

Holy shit.. I shoulda put on hip waders before I started reading this thread this afternoon. It couldn't get any deeper in BS.

If DHB was a 4th rounder like Ford and Murphy, nobody would be whining about him... because I don't see anyone whining about Murphy, or Ford... and they both have had bad games too.

How stupid do you think I am, RT?

12:45 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>

It's the same old bait and switch. People try to sell me these ridiculous concepts, and when I don't buy them, I'm suddenly cast an Al Hater, DHB Hater, etc.
>>>>>

The only person trying to sell anything is you pretending your whining about DHB isn't based completely on his draft status.

DHB currently has 19 receptions for 266, 1 TD in six games.

Murphy has 21 for 337, 1 TD in SEVEN games.

How come you aren't whining about him?

12:54 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

If DHB wasn't drafted in the first round, there's no way he'd have maintained his starting role (nor would your defense of his mediocrity be so strident), so your point is moot.

Murphy has less starts and double the catches of DHB since they both entered the NFL.

If these performances were reversed, and if Murphy was putting up DHB-like numbers, then I would be calling him the point of weakness at WR.

But I bet you wouldn't be defending him like you are DHB.

In fact, there's no other explanation for the excuses made on DHB's behalf other than his draft status.

My analysis is production based. Yours is the one that's draft based.

12:55 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Regarding this year, Murphy does deserve a critical eye.

And if you start blaming Campbell for his shortcomings, and telling me that he's not dropping balls that go right through is hands, and generally trying to convince me that he's been great when he hasn't, then you'll hear about it.

But you're not doing those things, because he wasn't drafted in the first round.

So I have no need to point it out.

I'll start "whining" about Murphy when your excuses for him reach the same irrational pitch as they have for DHB.

12:59 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

H - "So, Cable has zero to do with all this?"

I think you can read in my post that I'm implying that the coaches may be more involved in the daily coaching than ever before (or at least since Gruden - Kiffin tried).

That may also be a matter of trust. I think it's understood that if the coaches are successful, Davis allows them more space.

But when it comes to personnel, and certain players seeing the field, Davis appears still to be heavily involved (at least that's how I see it).

When discussing this year's draft, coaches like Jackson state (or infer) that Davis directed it. Did the coaches and scouts have input? Of course!

Listen, I will accept just about any theory that gets us to the promise land. It's all about winning! Always has been. It became very difficult when the winning stopped, and even more difficult when priorities shifted.

Now, we seem very much back on track!

1:41 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

the following headline appears on SJ Merc Sprts:

Steelers LT Starks out for season with neck injury

now BOTH atarting OT's are OUT! i'll bet our D linemen are drooling by now!

1:53 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

I think the key tho the Raiders offense, is their ballance.


Do they have the greatest WR's in the league ? No.

But the Raiders can beat you on the ground, and spread the ball around with the passing game enough to keep defenses back on their heels.

Think about it. A defense might think it has everything covered, and BAM, Marcel Reese, the FB, explodes for a big play.

Defenses cannnot key in on any one guy. One week Mcfadden might beat you. The next, It's Miller time.

It could be Reese, it could be Ford, and as DHB flashed against Seattle, even he has to paid attention to.

It looks to me like the Raiders have a lot of weapons on offense right now.

3:31 PM  
Blogger onandonandon said...

I know why I don't complain about Murphy: unlike H-bey, he shows some of the most potential out of any receiver we have on our roster. Now, I'm not going to claim that he's a future Pro Bowler, but I see some upside there when he's healthy. Even the two decent games I've seen H-Bey play, he looked awkward catching the ball. He just doesn't look like a pro level receiver; and as I've pointed out, he was a fairly average college receiver, who played in a weak conference and showed an inability to get in the end zone. He also doesn't look nearly as fast in pads.

4:11 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
Even the two decent games I've seen H-Bey play, he looked awkward catching the ball.
>>>>

Oh really now?

JC after the Seattle game:


...quote...
Apparently he's working his tail off, both in route running and catching the ball. Hard to dis him for that.

...end quote....


Make up your minds guys...

4:19 PM  
Blogger onandonandon said...

H, Al is RUNNING this team right now. If that's not clear, I don't know what is. Cable just stated multiple times that Ski is the starting QB no matter what; now he's changing his tune. Yeah, he's a damn lapdog, but in this case, I support Al. Furthermore, the success started with Hue coming on board, period. None of our draft picks have turned out to be consistent NFL performers YET. The potential is there for McFadden; but then, the potential for him to not make it through the season again is there too. Coaching. Al found the right guy, FINALLY. Now he just needs a good excuse to move Cable out, and that WILL happen sooner or later. No way Al is going to let Hue skate to another team in favor of keeping Cable, who has shown nothing. Al runs the draft. Cable's primary role is organizing team meetings and practices, and having strong input into the offensive line. Nothing there has impressed me. Now if you disagree with what I THINK, fine. But I'm not going to pretend that I think Cable is a major player.

4:19 PM  
Blogger onandonandon said...

You gotta love how the Al jockers gotta stir up shit. Give it a rest. We can all disagree on who does what and enjoy the wins nonetheless.

4:23 PM  
Blogger onandonandon said...

Ummm Gary, complimenting H-Bey for working hard in no way is in dispute with my point - one that I've hammered consistently - that H-Bey doesn't have the instincts or natural-born skill-set to be a top flight NFL receiver; beyond that, I don't think he'll be in the league beyond a few more years. Just on psychology and game intelligence alone, the kid doesn't have it. I commend him for working wrong, and I'd love for him to prove me wrong and make a contribution, but there's no way he'll ever be a starting-level WR in this league. Only on the Raiders, could a kid like this be an NFL starter. Now that's one mess I hope Al cleans up quick, cause him being on the field has nothing to do with 'lapdog Cable.'

4:29 PM  
Blogger onandonandon said...

...working "hard" that is

4:31 PM  
Blogger onandonandon said...

The offense is succeeding because of two primary factor IMO.

1. Hue Jackson's scheme and ability to build confidence in his players (don't tell me Cable did this, please; he does not run the offense at all). But even more important than all of that is Jackson's ability to make adjustments quickly when things aren't working; that's a true sign of a great coach in the making IMO. This may be Al's best find since Gruden and I have little doubt that Al is going to lok for a way to make him the head coach.

2. Consistency and veteran leadership at the QB position - yes, McFadden is making strides, but his success depends on the offense being in good rhythm and having a successful game plan.

4:35 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
and generally trying to convince me that he's been great when he hasn't,
>>>>

He's had flashes of brilliance.

And I wouldn't try to convince you of anything about him if you and all the rest of your IAAFer herd weren't so constantly whining about him.

And I am still not convinced that the reason you keep whining about him is because Asum, Gallery, Huff, McFadden, and McClain are all now key players.

Thats 5 out of 7 first round picks... with DHB still an unknown.

What ever would an IAAFer whine about if not for the DRAFT.. especially with the team playing well?

Old habits die hard it seems.

4:36 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
onandonandon said...

H, Al is RUNNING this team right now. If that's not clear, I don't know what is.
>>>>


Logically that would mean the reason we lost before Cable took over was because Al didn't have ANY control.

Guess thats the first time I've seen anyone say this!

I'm getting dizzy from the spin!

4:38 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
This may be Al's best find since Gruden and I have little doubt that Al is going to lok for a way to make him the head coach.
>>>>

He might have to because he is going to be a hot commodity as a HC elsewhere... if the offense keeps playing this well.

Al does have an interesting decision to make this off-season.

4:41 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
onandonandon said...

Ummm Gary, complimenting H-Bey for working hard in no way is in dispute with my point
>>>>


You said he's always looked awkward catching the ball, but before that you said he's obviously worked hard at catching the ball???

Could someone provide me an IAAFer interpreter?

4:47 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Ok, here's our answer from Tom Cable:

“This organization, regardless of what’s written or what’s said, or what some unnamed source, or whatever that is, says, is run by the owner and it’s coached by the coach,” Cable said Wednesday after the team’s last bye week practice.

“As it pertains to this football team, the decisions that go on with players, they’re going to be made by me. I made that clear since Day One. And that’s the way we do business. And, obviously, it’s working.”
________

I believe Cable is a stand up guy. And I don't think anyone can criticize Cable for the way he handles the media... which is very well. His responses are measured and never incriminating.

He acknowledges that Davis is in charge, but I would expect that from any GM (that's how it's supposed to work). Whatever they're doing is working, even if only now showing the results.

Onandon - I wouldn’t underestimate what Cable has contributed. He claimed the other day to send in a defensive play that didn’t work. The point is not that it didn’t work, but he has final say during the game. If that’s true, I have to respect that.

Besides, who else would have called that bonehead fake punt? That had Cable written all over it.

4:50 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Works hard but still looks awkward? That makes perfect sense. I couldn't agree more.

Things come easy to some people, while others work their tail off and still can't get it right.

4:53 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>
Raider Take said...

If DHB wasn't drafted in the first round, there's no way he'd have maintained his starting role (nor would your defense of his mediocrity be so strident), so your point is moot.
>>>




Ahhhh the famous IAAFer "inside information" again. What proof of this could you possibly have?

4:55 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

back to the point made by Cable that the team is "coached by the coach".

I'm still confused because why did Jackson call Davis "Coach Davis?"

It's all very confusing!

Really, why should we care so much? ... now that it's working.

4:57 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
nyraider said...

Works hard but still looks awkward? That makes perfect sense. I couldn't agree more.

Things come easy to some people, while others work their tail off and still can't get it right.
>>>

If you read his quote in context you could tell after the Seattle game he was pretty impressed.

I simply don't think its fair to now suddenly act like he's never been impressed with him.

And to his point that its us stirring shit up... who started all the incessant whining about him in the first place?

Were 6th in scoring this season... gosh.. if only DHB would pull his head out!!!

4:59 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>

Really, why should we care so much? ... now that it's working.
>>>

WORKS FOR ME!

I gotta runs folks....

5:00 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Gary -

It’s absolutely hysterical that you complain we harp on DHB, yet that’s all you talk about.

Your entire argument is predicated on potential, which is simply conjecture on your part. He’s had two decent games in 19 starts. He has no body of work from college or the pros which you can provide us with any information to truly counter the opposition to your argument.

Give it up, man!

5:03 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

“Coach will sit us down and talk to us. He tells it like it is,” Gradkowski said. “He’ll be straight up with us. That’s what we respect about him."

That's very good to hear. Like I said, Cable seems like a standup guy.

He doesn't need to be great at playcalling on either side of the ball to be a good HC. He just needs to do the things he does to earn the respect of his players and coaches, and make sound game time decisions. He's got the first part, and he will get better at the second part.

5:08 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Mount absurd defenses for DHB's lack of production.

Wait for people react and point out the absurdity.

Accuse people of focusing on DHB when they are simply responding to the absurdity.

Again, nice try.

5:22 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"RT"....

"I've always believed that he has a lot of fingers in the pie, is the trigger puller in the draft and free agency, and has a strong influence on the roster and, at times, the depth chart."

Now that I wouldn't argue with...It's all "MGP" duties associated -w- player acquisition and coach acquisitions...It's the crap that he wears all the hats and doesn't let his coaches coach that I bicker about...That he draws up the game plans or sends plays/schemes down to the field via his under the blanket "PS3" controller because the "OHP" wont show up from such distances in bright daylight....


Raider00...Beautifully Stated -n- True!!!...

"Defenses cannnot key in on any one guy. One week Mcfadden might beat you. The next, It's Miller time. It could be Reese, it could be Ford, and as DHB flashed against Seattle, even he has to paid attention to."

Just go back to a time that the Raiders didn't have the great young "WR"s on the roster but we had the "TE"s-n-"RB"s to make up for it...1976 till Timmy Brown became the leading receiver on the team in 1988....That was NOT just a season or two...It spanned over a decade and by design..."78" was the only year that Branch led as a "WR" in receptions by "ONE" -w- 59 while "TE"s had 57-n-58 -n- "FB" had 51....Hardly a "WR" take-over by any means...

We have returned to our roots -n- by design...


So now I ask...Would you have bitched because Freddy B -n- Branch only had 33 receptions each like in "77"...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rai/1977.htm


NYRaider...I like your takes???..

I'm still confused because why did Jackson call Davis "Coach Davis?"

That's just an expression of respect -n- acknowledgment because he was the coach who started the Raiders on a winning track...Several players also refer to him this way...


PantyRaider...OK! OK! I Know I'm On The Bye But So Much So Good To Discuss BUT NO ADVERSE DEBATES!!!/_

6:25 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

"Also, if you watch tape, DHB DOES clear out areas of the field for Miller and others."

Which WR would you rather have "clear out areas of the field" ... DHB who hasn't caught one single deep ball or Ford who is faster than DHB and caught 3 deep balls in the 1st game he ever started?

The "decoy" "good blocker" "hard worker" argument is lame for starting a WR who is unproductive AND when you have another WR is a BETTER, TRUE threat.

6:42 PM  
Blogger onandonandon said...

Contrary to your paradigm Gary, I've never felt the need to do anything but place blame and give credit where it belongs. Al's poor record of running the team and adjusting to the game's innovations the last 20 plus years is a matter of record. But that doesn't mean that he hasn't made a few great moves in between after an avalanche of bad ones. It's not like Al doesn't know the game after all. It's that his ego and old ways have gotten the best of him since he became trapped in the glory of the 70's and early 80's.

What amuses me about the 'cult of Al Davis' is that it's folks like YOU who are offended and make a big issue when he's criticized. It's sort of like dealing with a rabid political ideologue. There's no talking sense; it's either recognize Al's absolute greatness or you're a disloyal fan. Add to that your paranoia that I and others are somehow fixated on spinning this or that. WTF are you talking about. Al's record of miscue over the last several decades is clear. His poor draft choices over the year are a matter of record. Yes, he has made some good decisions in between, but not enough to keep us from being one of the bottom five franchises the last 20 plus years. Why is reality so hard to swallow with you anyway? Good grief. Done.

6:45 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

onandonandon....

Just a note on the past...

"BR" -n- I have been speculating that Cable may be moving into the front office while Hue may have been acquired to take over as "HC" and is in training this season so the transition will be smooth....

Cable seems better suited in a "Player Personnel"/"Coach Personnel" role than as a "HC"...Maybe something along the lines of "Football Operations"...He has asked Mr Davis to teach him the ropes so we wait-n-see....

PantyRaider...Just Speculation But Similar To You Assertion That Hue Should Become "HC"!!!!/_

6:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't know if anyone caught Trotter's piece on si about Seymour:

http://tinyurl.com/2azq4po

His production this year has started to make the trade look good; but it's his influence on everyone else that's really paying dividends.

H.O.D.

6:49 PM  
Blogger onandonandon said...

RaiderTake, I understand that Cable is the head coach and is able to get a play called here and there throughout the game. But make no mistake: Al put him on a leash after last season. IMO, Hue is playing the proper political role in maintaining a certain level of respect for Cable's authority. But it seems from afar that Hue has Al's ear right now more than Cable does. Let's not forget: Cable was only allowed to pull JaMarcus when Davis gave him permission to. Russell was allowed to remain the starter through some horrific play after all.

As far as rhetoric, I've never liked where Cable is coming from; I see a very average offensive line coach talking empty words. His knowledge of X's and O's has never been on display as far as I'm concerned, and we were a joke until Hue Jackson came on board this season, which was a move I highly supported in the off-season: Hue was one of the more respected offensive coaches in football before coming on board, and Al pulled a rabbit out of the hat to get him here. Al gets nothing but kudos from me for that. I suspect that Al told him that the HC position was a possibility in Hue's future. The success we're now having has nothing to do with Cable IMO. He was friggin' atrocious last season.

6:55 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Gary said, "Yes... by all means rely less on DHB... but he still needs to be included in the mix unless you don't wish to see if he can continue to improve."

I agree 100%. My argument has always been it isn't black or white, all or nothing, when it comes to the the WRs playing time. It should be based on production, opponent, and competitive advantage.

Successful passing teams typically use 3-4 WRs on a regular basis. There is absolutely no reason we can't utilize Shillens, Murphy, Ford, DHB, and yes Higgins into an offensive game plan.

With 60+ offensive snaps per game, the key is how the reps. are distributed amongst the WRs. It should be altered in real time on performance, injury issues, etc.

6:56 PM  
Blogger onandonandon said...

I saw that Panty, but I'm not so sure. Al pretty much has handled the draft from what I've seen, and I'm sensing that Cable and Al will drift apart over the course of the season: if true that Al is forcing Cable's hand on the starting QB issue, I think the tension will continue to increase between them. That's just my opinion on the matter. Time will tell. Whatever the outcome, I would like to see Hue as our head coach. He's a great motivator and seems to have a good grasp on X's and O's. His influence on Campbell and the halftime adjustments he's made are pretty remarkable.

6:59 PM  
Blogger onandonandon said...

The problem with H-bey is that when all our guys are healthy, he's not even our 4th best receiver.

7:00 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Gary said,

"If DHB was a 4th rounder like Ford and Murphy, nobody would be whining about him... because I don't see anyone whining about Murphy, or Ford... and they both have had bad games too"

This statement holds no water.

First off, if DHB was drafted in the 4th round, he would considered a long term project and wouldn't not have been named the starter Day 1.

All WRs have bad games. This has absolutely no bearing on the argument. The argument is about productivity.

DHB has started 2x as many games as Murphy yet Murphy has outproduced DHB by a MILE in every statistical category.

TDs - 5 to 2
Receptions - 55 to 28
Yards - 858 to 390

Keep in mind that during a big chunk of the 2009 season, DHB was the reason Murphy was on the sideline. The disparity in numbers would be even larger if DHB was the starter the 1st 11 games of 2009.

As far as Ford, are you for real. Ford has only started 1 game and he lit the world on fire.

7:07 PM  
Blogger onandonandon said...

In the games I've attended, I haven't seen H-bey clear out defenders any more than any other receiver would. There's no doubt that defenses don't see him as a threat and therefore give him a pretty big cushion. He can't catch the ball in the middle of the field after all. The theory that his skill set would open up the field for others in any significant way is pure fantasy. The only WR in the league you could make that claim for, on account of his low reception total, is Randy Moss, who looks faster in pads at his age than the so-called speedy H-bey.

7:08 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

onandonandon....

One small note:

Some of the objection here is not so much that Al Davis is criticized as much as how it takes place and the total disdain -n- total disrespect it is administered with...Outright attacks on the man...

We are old timers and don't hold to that crap...That man has made mistakes Yes and so has everyone ever connected with sports but he has also earned our respect and it should continue to be shown regardless of how perturbed one becomes with a recent decision that we may view as a mistake...

Also just a little reality that non of us really knows squat...Non of us have ever been in "The Room"...We know only what little leaks out beneath the "Cone-0-Silence" or what we think we see on that football field which is subject to our own limited view and understanding of the game and disrupted by the "Mediot" crap that we may digest...

You played and I played yes but on such a monumentally lower level it hardly counts in the big picture of things....We view things with the limited eye of discernment that each one possesses which is why there is such a wide spread gap in what one poster sees in a game as opposed to another...

For instance...I watched this game 3 times from the tube..."RT" sees it once from the stands...I played "CB" so have my perception of good "WR" play as opposed to quality "QB" play...."RT" sees
"WR"s dropping passes while I see passes thrown too late and off target with some spectacular receptions by Ford to take up the slack...

Who is right...

PantyRaider...The Eye Of The Beholder!!!/_

7:09 PM  
Blogger x said...

"Also, if you watch tape, DHB DOES clear out areas of the field for Miller and others."

So does Blanda have access to the team's wide angle game tape or something? How else can he say this?

The bits and pieces I see in replays and NFL Network Playbook segments, I see nothing of the sort. Yeah, if he runs deep, the DB will go with him but he almost never pulls a double team from what I can tell.

Regardless, CJ is spot on when he says that Ford has shown he can both clear and actually catch the ball. Heck, after last week, he might even draw the double team.

7:15 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Has anyone seen how Cable was running on the sideline giving Hue a "Thumbs-Up" when big plays were made...That showed up on the NFL NetWork's re-broadcast...He did this repeatedly to Hue giving him excited credit for the calls...I think they are working very well together and Cable doesn't let his personal ego get in the way...So if Hue has Al's ear that ain't a bad thing with Cable from what I see....

PantyRaider....NO Coaching Controversy!!!!/_

7:20 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

X...

Please go view this...

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights#team:2520

Click on the Chief's game -n- the Sea game...

What you will see:

Ford is in single coverage until late in the game when he makes a great ply in triple coverage...

Now where do you suppose all the "DB"s are if Ford is singled up...You will see the "S" come over late from the opposite side of the field when Ford makes his spectacular catch slowing down and going to the ground...Why??...Because the "S" was cheating too far over to "DHB"s side of the filed and out of position to make a play....

No Zack -n- No Murphy so the Chiefs went after "DHB" to take him out of the game...

Seattle game you will see "DHB" make the play in double coverage...

Granted we don't get to see everything but a Little football savvy can go a long way toward understand what has happened...

PantyRaider...The Ability To Use Discernment!!!/_

7:45 PM  
Blogger x said...

Check out this photo of Ford's OT catch:
http://goo.gl/4hSAn

It appears he was being interfered with on the catch.

Even more impressive!

7:47 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

X...

YES...He was being held and #47 was late getting there...Why??...Where was he coming from??

#47 Jon McGraw FS

Could it be he was preoccupied with "DHB" and taken out of that play???

PantyRaider..."DHB"s Total Value Is Not Being Recognized Here!!!/_

8:01 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"5-Man Front Big-Nickle" "D" Formation...

http://www.suite101.com/content/oakland-raiders-2010--winning-record-in-afc-west-a263545

Not sure when this photo was taken but Johnston was still playing...I didn't remember seeing this formation with the Raiders before but here it is...Or something like it -w- all 5 -w- hands down and not standing up like blitzing "DB"s...Can't see where the 11th player is so must be playing deep "S"....Can't tell if this in a nickle or 3 "LB"s...

PantyRaider...Interesting so I posted it for review!!!/_...

8:32 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

"YES...He was being held and #47 was late getting there...Why??...Where was he coming from??

#47 Jon McGraw FS

Could it be he was preoccupied with "DHB" and taken out of that play???"
================================

He was held by DB Flowers not McGraw.

Sorry PR but McGraw was hardly occupied by DHB. McGraw was on the complete other side of the field (McGraw on the right hand side of the field while DHB was on the left hand side.)

Go to 4:24 on this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHTaEjIGSPE

10:03 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

"Sorry PR but McGraw was hardly occupied by DHB."

DHB was doing a 10 yrd curl on the sideline, on the other side of the field. Obviously the strong safety bit on short coverage or the run. Jacoby just took off and it was pure speed along with Football IQ, reading the safety biting and turning on the jets. Good throw by Campbell.

JONES

10:22 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

Right now, I would compare DHB to James Jett.

Great speed. The ability to make an eye popping big play. But will disappear for long stretches.

The good news is, DHB is young, can still develop, and does not have to remain a grounded Jett.

I think for DHB, it's all about confidence.

Against Seattle, DHB did not fight the ball. To me, he looked smooth, & fluid, and his hands were fine.

But yeah, there are times when he will go MIA, and not look very comfortable during the game.

Let's just hope these are the typical ups and downs of a young player.

We should know a lot more about DHB, this time next year.

10:53 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Q: How do you see Jacoby’s role, given the way he played Sunday?

Cable: I think it has to continue to grow. This is a prove-it league, and certainly he’s proving it.

Q: How encouraging was it to see – speed is obviously Jacoby’s big calling call – but he ripped the ball away from a guy. He showed a little bit more than just speed . . .

Cable: I think the elite players in this league at that position, that’s what they do. They go get the ball.

Q: How do you get that to happen? Is that something you can work on with guys or is it something that they have?

Cable: I think it’s a little bit of both, and I think it’s a lot more of they have.
__________

Well, those responses make sense, but it begs the question; why is DHB the starter?

Sounds like the decision to start DHB is coming from a higher authority.

4:33 AM  
Blogger H said...

Only got time for one visit today, so Happy Veterans Day to all the Ground Pounders, Squids, Jarheads, Flyboys and Coasties out there.

H

4:37 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Here's the list of DHB excuses I've heard so far:
______

Jason Campell threw the ball too hard.

You need to throw it in his gut.

You need to throw it away from his gut.

He didn't drop those balls that went through his hands.

He's really a decoy and the most feared guy with less than 30 career catches to ever play the game.

The WR is just a minor cog in the offense (right after Jacoby Ford got the game ball)
______

Am I missing anything?

Stop the excuses. This team has grown beyond that. The coddling era is over.

My "focus" on DHB is directly proportional to the weird excuses made on his behalf.

Without the boster-club excuses, he's just a guy on the field who isn't getting it done, and who should lose snaps to someone else until he does. That's it.

I don't care about the name on the back, the draft position, etc. Which is why I'm not going to make excuses.

I care about putting the best players out there and winning.

7:14 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
and who should lose snaps to someone else until he does. That's it.
>>>

Haven't we all AGREED on this, like 40 posts ago?

WHich person here is saying he should be the center of our offense?

We have the 6th ranked scoring offense and all anyone does here is whine about one of our WR's... this is one of the weirdest debates in the history of Raider Take, and thats saying something.

7:31 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>
Yes, he has made some good decisions in between, but not enough to keep us from being one of the bottom five franchises the last 20 plus years.
>>>>

According to whose criteria? If regular season games is the only meaningfull part of the NFL, I'd agree... we've lost a ton of regular season games.

OTOH... he single handedly put a team together and coached it (and threw TD passes) to 4 playoff wins and a SB appearance in the last 20 years. There's prolly less than 10 teams that can say that.

Oh wait... he had nothing to do with that team... it was all St. Gruden.

Never mind.

7:44 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

The reason it's weird is because of the persistent litany of weird excuses made on his behalf, as I just documented.

To date, he's just another mediocre player who should lose snaps until he performs better. That's all he is.

But DHB, and DHB alone, is the only such mediocre player with a Fan Club ready to mount absurd excuses on his behalf at the first sign of criticism.

That's what the debate is about here. It's not about DHB.

It's about this lingering coddling behavior that, thankfully, is diminishing among the fan base.

The team has grown beyond the coddling of the recent past. DHB is probably the last remnant of it. Soon, even he will be held to an objective standard, and the coddling mentality will be, at last, fully purged. I can't wait.

8:02 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
Soon, even he will be held to an objective standard, and the coddling mentality will be, at last, fully purged. I can't wait.
>>>>


This "coddling" of Al also led us to McFadden, Asum. Gallery, Huff, Routt, Mitchell, Kelly, and Jani being productive and vital players for the current Raider team.

If someone like YOU were in charge, every single one of the above players would have been CUT the first sign of struggles... and boy-howdee did ALL of the above struggle.

Your chin is bloody from all the knee-jerking over the years... so pardon me if I discount your opinion of DHB.

8:58 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Wrong, not true, nice try.

None of those players, when they were underperforming, enjoyed a Fan Club that mounted such absurd excuses on their behalf. Not even close.

9:09 AM  
Blogger H said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

9:13 AM  
Blogger H said...

NYRaider,

“I'm still confused because why did Jackson call Davis "Coach Davis?"”

Because for the last 50 years folks in the NFL have referred to him many times as “Coach Davis” because he was a coach. It’s a title of respect, along with Mr. Davis. Mal Moore is AD at Alabama and hasn’t coached in over ten years. Nick Saban refers to him as Coach Moore.

When George Halas stopped coaching the Bears in the 50’s and stuck with ownership he was still called Coach Halas.

Mike Ditka is an analyst on TV, they call him Coach Ditka. Parcells is still called Coach, even after he has taken over the front office of the Fish, and I’m sure he has made a suggestion or two to Sparano. Once a coach, always a coach, especially if you are successful at it.

Does that clear the fog a little?

We are now parsing every word looking for that Freudian Slip that will spill the beans as to what is really going on. We are reading way too much into some of these statements. Like Tommy Kelly saying they’ve run the same defense since the first day of camp. Some wanted to insinuate he meant first day of camp five or six years ago.

Like Cable said, Al Davis is the owner and runs the team, he (Cable) coaches the team and makes the decisions on the players.

Jones,

“The team has taken on a different personality like it did when Gruden was HC. Al Davis' fingers don't seem to be in every pie as it was in the 7 years before it. Personel decisions seem to be more of a collective scheme than one man dominating. The game plans seem more diverse and aggressive.”

About two years ago after the Atlanta debacle, Cable said, “I know how to fix this.” It’s evident now he was talking about the team as a whole and not just the game plan for the next Sunday. It is also evident that the “fix” was going to take more than one offseason and we ain’t all the way there yet, but we are getting closer.

It’s something I’ve been putting out there for well over a year, but I was told I was nuts. Now, my sanity might be questionable, but Cable has stayed firm and the results show.

H

9:13 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

New take us up.

9:56 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Damn!!..Why can't I just keep my mouth shut on this BYE!!!...NO Intestinal Fortitude!!!...

11/09/2010 Released WR Damola Adeniji

"CJ"...

Nice clip...

I don't know where "DHB" was on the plays and he may not have been in the game on the deep post to Ford...Ford lined up in "DHB"s position -n- he is listed as depth behind "DHB"...2 "WR" set so can't tell but I think it was "JLH" on the other side...

http://www.raiders.com/team/depth-chart.html

Maybe you got's what you wanted and "DHB" is splitting time...On most of these plays Ford was in single coverage in their zone...I know when I watched the replay of the game "DHB" had the double often...

No one will fail to cove this kid again and that will really help when we get our guys healthy...



"RT"....

Here is another one for you:

The coaches are bringing this team along on a sensible schedule...They said Ford had impressed and they would work him into the line-up...So following a superb game from "DHB"...

6 touches 135yds against Sea...

The coaches insert Ford and he goes wild against a "D" that was happy not to be facing Zack or Murphy so thought all they had to do is contain "DHB" -n- "D-Mac" and they win...

The coaches are right...

IT WORKED!!!..But all you can do is CRY about that...My gad!...What will it take to get those tears out of your eyes...

Oh! Ya!...I forgot...It was the rain drops Right!!!....


Gary was right...It doesn't matter if we're a "PO" team the "Board-o-Tears" will still find a reason to cry...You have proven that the last 2 weeks for sure...It's now a certainty...

#1...Cry that "DHB" is playing...

#2...Cry for Cable's head on a platter...

#3...Cry because Al Davis made us win by forcing Cable to use "JC"...

#4...Cry because our rookie sensation wasn't ready out the gate...

#5...Cry because we won't join you in your "Crying Session"...

Did I forget any of your "Tear"s...


Well...Props to "NYR" for his very positive takes...I really didn't know he had it in him but this is not just some phony pat on the back...It's for real but it's also a shame no one listened...Guess they just don't want to here it...But Please!!!...If you have more of that in you don't hesitate to bring it out...A pleasure to read for a change...

PantyRaider...I Lied Again DAMMIT!!!!/_

10:26 AM  
Anonymous JONES said...

"About two years ago after the Atlanta debacle, Cable said, “I know how to fix this.” It’s evident now he was talking about the team as a whole and not just the game plan for the next Sunday.


The team as a whole includes scheme's, maybe you don't think so, doesn't mean you are right.

JONES

1:06 PM  

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