Monday, October 11, 2010

Belated Postgame Take

Well, well, well...Welcome back to Oakland, Norv.

I actually didn't see most of the game. I was traveling, but was able to tune into the final 12 minutes. It was kind of cool, in a way. I didn't know what had happened to the point. I didn't know why Jason Campbell was throwing the ball. Nothing to that point had colored my view. I felt like true spectator.

As such, I was thrilled to discover a real, honest-to-goodness football game in progress. Normally, I would have sensed how it would end. You know, the familiar flirtation with winning until the final minutes, when we'd either commit some stupid turnover or employ a soft prevent defense as a gift to the last-second victor.

But I didn't sense that this time. It wasn't my normal viewing experience, and there was something abnormal about what I was seeing as well: determination, resilience, aggression. Instead of being fated to lose, we seemed fated to win.

We were, as Tom Cable promised, finally manning up.

Oh, sure, there were some soft moments. But they were rendered irrelevant by the hard ones. Seeing Jason Campbell direct a potent offense with the game on the line was thrilling. Watching Philip Rivers so thoroughly harrassed in the final minutes was a joy to behold. Confirming that the San Diego curse had finally been snapped was priceless.

I still don't quite know what to think of this team. So far this season, the Raiders have demonstrated multiple personalities. But I am encouraged and excited by what transpired on Sunday.

So I hope that, in retrospect, it's not just a fleeting tease (it wouldn't be the first time), but rather the flashpoint of something meaningful and lasting. Consider me bullish on the latter.

93 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Raiders are back, if only for a week!

11:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Raiders are back, if only for a week!

11:02 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

Not sure I agree with the "multiple personalities" comment... the Raiders have been pretty consistent in 4 of 5 games... they've all gone down to the last series of downs.


This weeks game is going to be interesting to see if we actually have turned the corner.

How many Raiders teams of the past 7 years have laid an egg after a big win vs an opponent we should easily handle? Nearly every time?

This is a chance to prove that this team is DIFFERENT! Time to squash a team that is very vulnerable, and capitalize on the momentum gained from such a season changing win.

It hasn't happened in 8 years.

Time for this team to separate itself from the past!

A blow out this Sunday could be just as important as last weeks win. A sloppy squeaky ass win I would take, but wouldn't accomplish much. This should be a STATEMENT game.

Obviously a loss would put us back to square one... same ol same ol.

11:11 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

I think this Raiders team showed that you don't need great stats.

Over 500 yards yielded, but still can win with big plays.

What you need is grit, toughness, heart, effort, hustle, passion, and a healthy mean streak too.

And you have to keep it revved up for 60 full minutes.

When you see a team like the Steelers, the thing you notice is they try so hard for the whole game.

They are not a team filled with star players, but they win because they compete so hard.

The Raiders seem to have captured this spirit on Sunday. Now they have to hold on to it.

They have to learn, when they make a mistake, don't hang your head, but play even harder.

That is why the blitz is so important.

It sets a tone that the Raiders are coming after it. They are going to attack.

Not to sit back in a sleepy, passive defensive scheme that lulls their whole team into a zombie state.

Just keep attacking, playing hard for 60 mintutes, and good things will happen.

This may sound over simple to some, but I believe it is the key for this Raider team.

11:21 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Watched some of the Jets/Vikes game last night and saw Jets playing a lot of man coverage with a single-deep safety. The difference for them is, pressure is the rule, not the exception.

4:59 AM  
Blogger Doobie said...

Not sold. Don't get me wrong, I'll cherish any win and especially one that comes at the expense of the Chargers and Norval Turner. But, lets face it, you take away those two blocked punts at the beginning of the game and the nine points that resulted from them and the Raiders lose 27-26. The Raiders defense was porous and especially in the air (415 yards). Thankfully, they stepped it up when they needed to but it bothers me that they still couldn't stop a team on both the ground and in the air at the same time.

Bottom line is that it's nice to have the special teams defense come through for you but you really can't rely on that part of your game to consistently help you win. I'll be sold once I see this team dominating on both sides of the ball again...consistently engineering TD drives and providing shut-down defense. Hell, I'll get optimistic if I can see that on just ONE side of the ball.

5:41 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>
But, lets face it, you take away those two blocked punts at the beginning of the game and the nine points that resulted from them and the Raiders lose 27-26.
>>>>

You can say the same about some of the Rivers bombs... its all part of the game that don't happen very often. Doesn't mean a blocked punt is any more or less legitimate than a QB heaving up a bomb.

1:08 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Doobie:

I would agree that you should never count on blocked punts to "win" a game but I look at the Raiders victory differently.

All 3 units picked each other up during different times in the game when it was needed. All 3 units made game altering plays.

The offense struggled but ... put together 2 long TD drives in the 2nd half. The 97 yard drive, IMO, was epic since it was the pivotal time in the game. We were down by 9 backed up on our 3 yard line. We go 3 and out and we're toast looking at a possible 16 point deficit with SD having ALL the momentum.

The secondary got torched but ... the run D was solid AND created 3 takeaways that included 2 red zone opportunities by SD negated and a game clinching TD.

The Special Teams played a near flawless game; 2 blocked punts, safety, TD, 2-2 FGs, big punt return by Miller, excellent Kick and punt coverage.

Without an outstanding overall performance by the Special Teams, we probably would have loss by double digits.

Personally, I think it was the perfect storm against our pass defense and I expect this unit to tighten things up vs. Niners and be solid against MOST teams. What really F'D up our secondary was our safeties paying TOO much attention and over-committing to Gates and losing sight of the WRs. SD also has the most prolific passing offense in the NFL.

I also view this game as a step in learning to play a spirited brand of football for the full 60:00 to overcome any setbacks and find a way to win. I also hope that the aggressive play continues in terms of taking chances and laying it on the line to include blitzing.

Quite frankly, when the Chargers were down 28-27 with 1-10 on our 34 yard line, my first thought was "Oh, no. Here we go again with a valiant effort in another close loss." It was nice to see the team rewarded for their efforts.

6:39 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Gary...

Like Cable said the past does not define us and that's finally beginning to show some light...I think we are for real...Not an elite team by any means just yet...But a team that is for real and has a chance to compete on both sides of the ball....

"CJ"...

Every unit had it's moments..."ST" screwed up the "KO" and muffed it to the ground only to recover it deep in our own territory....But as yuo said that "O" took over at that point and made up the difference to our surprise...

The "ST" also had a few run-backs that would have been better served to just take a knee in the end-zone...That said they accounted for 15 pts in the 1st quarter and that was huge...Coverage was good and kicks were mostly deep...

The "O" was non-existent early on..."GradSki" was infective even before the hits took him out...They were facing the #1 "D" and it showed...But they were determined and although I was angry because they continued to run on every 1st dn it all paid off in the end when we were able to just push them off the live and move those chains..."JC" proved he can run this "O" and we now have a 2-headed monster and that's a damn good thing....

That "D" was stupid in the 2nd -n- 3rd quarters playing some form of "Too-Loose" Zone....Their #1 "O" just picked us apart...Finally the adjustments were made and we played "M-M" with pressure and that's the element that took this game...Rivers was frustrated....Anxious...And made the mistakes....

Damn I hope we learned something and keep this up...

Re: "SF"....

They may be desperate but they just ain't got's it Baby but we do...We got's that feeling and I don't believe we are willing to let it go for some "BloodRed" pansies from across the bay...

"Smashin Of The Gold" is the theme this week and I'm going to stay right here in So-Cal where it ain't Blacked-Out...Just hope my bar can get their Wi-Fi up to speed by game-time....

"RT"....

Welcome back!!!...Finally starting to sound like the old you....Maybe some of that "Minty-Freshness" has finally returned so order up a long forgotten friend...That "Raider KoolAid"....And enjoy a brew on me...

PantyRaider....My Cup Runnith Over!!!!/_

9:10 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Thanks, PR. That was some minty fresh Kool Aid they served up on Sunday.

9:15 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Raiders -vs- "49 Tears"..."O"-vs-"D"

"O"-#14..........."D"-#17
Pass-#20..........#21
Rush-#7...........#18
Scoring-#11.......#27
"OL"-#28..........Sacks-#13
..................Int's-#17 Tie

"D"-#23 Tie......."O"-#23
Pass-#10..........#11
Rush-#31..........#30
Scoring-#28.......#27
Sacks-#13........."OL"-#18
Int's-#28 Tie

Our "D" is a very even match to their "O" according to the stats but ours are against top "O" competition -w- a 2-3 record compared to their weaker schedule and 0-5 record...They have not stayed in their games...I give us a huge edge here...We can stop them...Bring that heat Baby!!!...

Run wild and throw downfield is my gameplan for this one...Time to get those "WR"s more involved in the game but still utilize our main weapons....Dumping off to the "RB"s-n-"TE"...Damn "OL" do your jobs and we got's this one...

PantyRaider...We Win 2 In A Row...."500" Baby!!!!/_

"KC" @ Hou....Loss...3-2
SD @ StL......Win....3-3
NYJ @ Den.....Loss...2-4

9:40 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Yes...It damn sure was and I'm real damn thirsty again so keep'em comin.....

PLEASE!!!!....

9:42 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Believe it or not, I had a better feeling about last week's game than I do this week.

Please throw ALL stats out the window. They are meaningless.

This week the Raiders and 49ers appear to be going in opposite directions. That's the rub. Appearances can be like stats. Worthless (See Chargers game!)

Did Frank Gore get injured or cut? This guy is primed to torch the Raiders run D. Also, the Raiders have a terrible recent history of let down after a big win.

Eagles game last year, Raiders blitz to victory, then crawl back into passive D and get spanked by the Jets (38-0).

This article pretty well sums it up.

http://tinyurl.com/28khjmh

It will be up to the coaches (and Davis) to keep the blitz alive. And it will be up to the players to bring the same 60-minute determination that brought them to victory last week.

Sunday's game against the 49ers is gut check, Part II.

5:38 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

NO Respect....

"SF" is favored by 6 1/2 freakin pts....Now how the hell does that happen...Must be that cloud of "Doom-n-Gloom" that keeps hangin overhead like that damn Marine Layer that just wont let the sun shine threw...Y'all so use to losing it's in the blood so just expect it Babies...

Well don't expect me to be down on this game...Epic re-run is in the making...

"49 Tears -n- The Smash'in of de Gold"...

Just like old times Baby!!!...

This from the local Rag here in "SD"...

Raiders -vs- "49 Tears" "O"-vs-"D"

Ave Yds/Rush/Pass per game....

"O" 339/134/205...."D" 339/111/228
"D" 345/147/198...."O" 311/78/234

So let's put that in perspective...

Oak-13 vs Ten-38....SF-6 vs Sea-31
StL-14 vs Oak-16....NO-25 vs SF-22
Oak-23 vs AZ-24.....SF-10 vs KC-31
Hou-31 vs Oak-24....SF-14 vs ATL-16
SD-27 vs OAK-35.....PHI-27 vs SF-24

Raider Opponent record vs "49 Tears"

3-2.........2-2
2-3.........3-2
3-2.........3-1
3-2.........4-1
2-3.........3-2

12-12.......15-8

But Hay!!...That's only because they got's to play the winless "49 Tears"....And they play in that weakass NFCW too...So there...

Ha! Ha!....But we be "500" Sunday Baby!!!....

PantyRaider...This Team Gained Confidence -n- So Did I!!!!/_

1:05 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Alex Smith 118/190 1229yds 62.1% 6 TD 9 Int's 10 Sck 71.6 Rate

Frank Gore
91/322yds 3.5ave 1 TD
33/284yds 8.6ave 2 TDs

He -n- Vernon Davis 24/313 13ave 2 TDs are basically the extent of their "O"....Leading rusher -n- leading receivers...

Michael Crabtree 20/244 12.2ave 1 TD
Josh Morgan 15/155 10.3ave 1 TD

Not allot of weapons to concentrate on this week...Pressure Smith into his usual mistakes...Focus on the "RB"-n-"TE"....Put Nmamdi on "CrapSpree"....


PantyRaider....Sounds Simple Enough!!!/_

1:32 PM  
Blogger Doobie said...

@NYRaider, I agree...this week is going to be tough because at 0-5 the Niners are going to be playing plenty angry. They're a better team than what their record indicates (not MUCH better, but better) and it's going to even out soon for them and, yes, this would be a perfect scenario for a let-down loss for the Raiders.

3:46 PM  
Blogger Doobie said...

Just in case you guys haven't seen this, we're apparently making young Chargers fans cry. LOL

5:25 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Doobie...

I'm here in Carlsbad just 30 miles No of "SD" and I can tell you it's not only the little people crying....Well maybe on second thought it is little people who shed so many tears...

"For-ty-ni-tears -n- de Smash-in of de Gold"

"49-Tears -n- de Smash'in of de Gold" coming to a "Freak-Out" center near you....Ha! Ha!....

PantyRaider...Gotta Luv It baby!!!/_

6:54 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Campkowski -n- Miren McBush....

I have been pimping both these combinations and now it seems "J-Mac" has joined in with some circumstantial evidence that Cable may be leaning in that direction as well...

http://www.ibabuzz.com/oaklandraiders/2010/10/13/qb-answer-could-be-campkowski/

But remember this is just some hypothetical tripe from a damn "Mediot" -n- by NO means substantiated probability...

But sense I said it you can take it to the bank...Ha! Ha! Ha!...

As I posted before I would play "JC" in the 1st half -n- "GradSki" in the 2nd thus making adjustments more difficult and keeping both "QB"s fresh...I think "JC" is better with scripted plays while "Grad" is better at making something out of nothing...In the 2nd half we need that fire to take us to the "V" and keep everyone fired up on "D" as well as "ST"s while early on we need to a gameplan that can be followed and productive...

PantyRaider...Double 2-Headed Monsters!!!!/_

8:36 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

NFL net-Work Eastern Time

9:15 PM NFL REPLAY: SD vs. OAK

http://www.firstrow.net/sports/american-football.html

I can't get it to come up...Maybe that's over...

2:15 AM NFL REPLAY: SD vs. OAK

That would be 11:15pm Pacific....Now can I find an Wi-Fi open that late here...

There's always tomorrow...

2:15 PM NFL REPLAY: SD vs. OAK

PantyRaider...Search -n- Enjoy!!!/_

8:56 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

What I want to see on Sunday from the opening kick...

the Raiders being the aggressor,
dictating the tempo, playing with passion and purpose, putting Smith on his back, win the trench battles, and executing the game plan.

Put the foot on the Niners throat from start to finish.

I expect nothing short of a convincing win if this team is going to truly turn the corner.

9:38 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Congrats to Michael Huff for being named AFC defensive player of the week.

Although sometimes I am critical of Huff, I've always been a fan, and I was pleased when the Raiders drafted him.

Despite the occassional bad angle or missed arm tackle, all indications are that Huff is a pro in the way he carries himself and how he approaches the game.

After listening to Rob Ryan and others, and watching years of Raiders football, I truly believe Huff's position is too demanding, i.e., the way the Raiders play it. Too many responsibilities.

As could be said for many Raiders players, you have to wonder where his career would be right now if he was playing in a different scheme.

Maybe the Raiders should play Huff closer to the LOS and see what happens.

Also, it's time to give Nick Miller a chance. DHB has one reception in the last two games. Miller was a standout in pre-season the last two years in a row.

Are the Raiders going to play their best players or is that just talk? Cable had the balls to replace Campbell. Now it's time to replace DHB. Maybe DHB would have more success at slot WR... better matchups.

Let's face it, Schilens can not be counted on... something I've said from Day 1 but some here mocked me for it. There's still no timetable for his return. Even if he can play this year, it's not likely he'll come back in mid-season form.

9:37 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

2:15 PM NFL REPLAY: SD vs. OAK

That will be 11:15 Pac-Time...

Last chance to watch it here...

http://www.firstrow.net/sports/american-football.html

Click on NFL Network and click on Link #1....

PantyRaider....Worth Watching Twice!!!!/_

10:20 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

What I expect in this game...

The Raiders to have a noticeable edge coming off a very emotional "V" and playing another very emotional game for dominance of the Bay and in retaliation for the "SmackDown" pimping "49 Tears" as 6 1/2 pt favorites...That's "BS" -n- NO respect...

The Raiders are a team coming together -n- maturing while "49 Tears" are coming apart under their tyrant Mike "Capt Bligh" Sigiltary....It just ain't working babies....

I expect to see "JC" have his best game as a Raider while Smith is pummeled and spiked into the turf...Frustrated and incompetent...

I expect our "WR"s to come alive this week while "CrapSpree" is held in check as are their "RB"-n-"TE"....No huge gains and less than 200yds for the game....

I expect to be able to run down their throats consistently and dump-off to the "RB"s -n- "TE"s regularly while their running game is held in check...Less than 100 total yds on the day by Gore Pass-n-Run...

I expect our "ST"s to play well again...

I expect to make a few mistakes but be able to dominate regardless...

PantyRaider....I expect a dominate "V"!!!/_....

10:51 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

I had a moment to drop in for a drive by.

This team doesn't remind me of the 1980 team, it reminds me more of Jon Gruden's 1999 team that went 8-8 before turning the corner to win the division the following year.

There aren't multiple personalities. It is the personality of a team that finally realizes what it really takes to win in the NFL. For a while they will continue to play close games with make or break final minutes. Then they'll go through a period where they are winning most games, but just barely. They will be fully on the move after they blow somebody out.

The questions are then, how long will this process last, and will it be Tom Cable that finishes it?

As for Sunday, it was a true Raider win. The stats don't matter, you do what you need to do to win.

11:06 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Coach Tom Cable has brought continuity to Raiders

I'm amazed....That bitch "CockRam" writes something decent about my team....Not without a little smear here -n- there but overall Pos....What the hell is this world com'in to...

Game started time to go...

11:17 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>

Let's face it, Schilens can not be counted on... something I've said from Day 1 but some here mocked me for it.
>>>>

No. You got mocked for suggesting we simply stick him on the IR.

Even if we only get 3-4 games out of him, we might really need an athletic, 6'4" receiver with good hands down the stretch.

To suggest putting him on the IR because he has had injury problems in the past was knee-jerk at best, and moronic at worst.

2:54 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

A Week-by-Week Look Ahead...

Bronkos
"O"-#4........"D"-#19
Pass-#2......Pass-#13
Rush-#32....Rush-#25

Seahawks
"O"-#28......."D"-#26
Pass-#23.....Pass-#31
Rush-#29.....Rush-#2

Chiefs
"O"-#24......."D"-#16
Pass-#27.....Pass-#25
Rush-#3.......Rush-#6

Bye Week........

Steelers
"O"-#29........"D"-#4
Pass-#31......Pass-#20
Rush-#8…..Rush-#1

Dolphins
"O"-#13........"D"-#7
Pass-#12......Pass-#4
Rush-#15 Tie..Rush-#21

Chargers
"O"-#1.........."D"-#2
Pass-#1.......Pass-#3
Rush-#12.....Rush-#7

Jaguars
"O"-#22........"D"-#30
Pass-#26.....Pass-#29
Rush-#4.......Rush-#13

Bronkos
"O"-#4........."D"-#19
Pass-#2......Pass-#13
Rush-#32....Rush-#25

Colts
"O"-#3........."D"-#23
Pass-#4......Pass-#13
Rush-#28....Rush-#29

Chiefs
"O"-#24......."D"-#16
Pass-#27.....Pass-#25
Rush-#3......Rush-#6

PantyRaider....The Remaining Schedule Looks Winable!!!/_

4:47 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Gary -

What’s up with your man crush on Chaz Schilens?

He's a 7th round draft pick with approx 50 career receptions who spends all of his time injured on the sideline. Just because he's probably the Raiders best WR (when healthy) doesn't make him great. Average, maybe. Injury-prone, definitely.

The Raiders have some bizarre obsession with having the weakest WR corp in the NFL. How else can they explain their neglect at the position?

Waiting (second year in a row) for this guy to heal in time to play 3-4 games makes zero sense, and certainly no business sense. What are the chances he stays healthy enough to even play 3-4 games?

Raiders need help now, not at the end of the season. Perhaps they should first try and secure the players they need to win this Sunday.

The Raiders had no problem waiving Jay Richardson due to injury. Now they are now thin at DE.

Schilens made a handful of good catches between injuries and he's suddenly irreplaceable, and it's moronic to think otherwise?

Get over your man crush, fella.

5:39 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

I personally would treat the game this Sunday as a "must" win game if the Raiders intend to compete for the playoffs.

With that in mind, I would rather see Miller lined up for more snaps at WR than DHB.

DHB has had 1 good game and 4 crappy games in 5. I'm 100% convinced that if you gave Miller the same # of snaps as DHB, he would out produce DHB.

Miller's acceleration is equal to DHB. His quickness, ability to get in and out of his cut, get open, and catch the ball is superior from what I've seen to date.

6:16 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>
What’s up with your man crush on Chaz Schilens?
>>>>


This has nothing at all to do with Chaz (although I admit I am a fan of his (in the same way I was of a guy by the name of Mike Siani (look it up)))...

>>>>
The Raiders have some bizarre obsession with having the weakest WR corp in the NFL. How else can they explain their neglect at the position?
>>>>


You complain about the depth at WR and then demand we put one of the better ones on the IR?

Call me crazy for calling you crazy.

>>>>
Waiting (second year in a row) for this guy to heal in time to play 3-4 games makes zero sense, and certainly no business sense.
>>>>

I hope you don't have anything to do with business besides greeting people at Walmart.

The guy has some unlucky breaks (that has absolutely nothign to do with performance) and you want to terminate him for an entire year. What employee would want to work for YOU?


>>>>
What are the chances he stays healthy enough to even play 3-4 games?
>>>>


From what I have been reading, 100%. I used 4 games as a worst case scenario. I suspect he will be on the field by week 8.

6:30 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>
Miller's acceleration is equal to DHB. His quickness, ability to get in and out of his cut, get open, and catch the ball is superior from what I've seen to date.
>>>

I'd like to see this in non-practice games... indeed.

There are a ton of WRs (and QBs) that look amazing in preseason CJ.

For whatever reason, our QB's seem to struggle getting balls to our WR's. Whether it is... timing, confidence, or whatever... I dunno. Not sure a person without an NFL catch will help but I agree I'd like to see.

Both Grads and Campbell throw perfect passes to Miller, but clankers to our WRs. Not sure I am willing to blame the WRs yet.

6:36 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Gary:

I agree that we don't know what we've got in WR Miller because he hasn't received the opportunity (yet). This is my point.

In the case of DHB, he has had the opportunity to start 16 NFL games in his career to date and produced a WHOPPING total of 20 catches.

Just so we are clear, I'm not suggesting WR Miller gets EVERY rep. over DHB. What I am suggesting is to rotate Miller in for DHB and let performance dictate who stays on the field longer, who gets more reps., starts games etc.

I have watched WR Miller enough to know he has all the tools to be a productive WR. For all we know, Miller might be better than DHB at creating separation (getting open).

All I want is for him to get a chance. Of course, if DHB was producing, if Shillens wasn't hurt, if we signed a veteran WR, I don't think Miller would be anything more than a ST player and depth at WR.

7:19 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Gary-n-"CJ"...

What's wrong with Miller getting some of "JLH"s reps...He hasn't done much as far as production either...

3/40yds 13.3yd ave

Right now "DHB" is 4th among all receivers...

Catches/Yards-Ave...

Zach Miller 28/340 12.1 3 TDs
Louis Murphy 18/304 16.9 1 TD
Darren McFadden 16/162 10.1 1 TD
Darrius Heyward-Bey 11/142 12.9
Marcel Reece 7/43 6.1 1 TD
Michael Bush 5/47 9.4
Johnnie Lee Higgins 3/40 13.4
Brandon Myers 3/21 7.0
Yamon Figurs 2/17 8.5
Michael Bennett 2/9 4.5
Rock Cartwright 1/10 10.0

What do I see here....

2 "TE"s....31 rec/361 yds...
4 "WR"s....34/765...Yamon cut
5 "RB"s....31/251...

Now that's spreading that ball around pretty well don't you think and the "WR"s are the big yd gainers as should be expected...But our passing game is far from dominate and that shows in the stats...So that's a work in progress and has less to do with the "WR"s and more to do with the "QB"s -n- "OC" in my opinion...

As I posted prior to this season we will be a running "O" that dumps off to the "RB"s-n-"TE"s and that exactly what you are seeing here now...I expect evolution will eventually get our "WR"s more involved...Or at least I certainly hope that's the case...But until our passing attack becomes a more dominate part of our game I'm not going to worry too much about who's got the low/high stats...

There are other parts of their play that are also important to this "O"...Downfild blocking on run plays...Drawing coverages deep and away from "TE"s-n-"RB"s...So I suspect with "DHB"s size/speed/athletic ability he is viewed as better suited to playing time than Miller in the eyes of the "HC"-n-"OC"...So I suspect when Miller is ready he will get his reps too...Not to mention when one of the other 3 goes down to injury...But than there is also Ford...What does he have in that tank???...

Take a look at this game coming up..."49-Tears" appear to be built in the same image as far as their passing game is concerned but with far fewer weapons...I posted that info just a few clicks up this thread...@ 1:32pm...

PantyRaider....

8:18 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Correction: I posted their players with 15 or more recs....Here is the complete list of all 10 players that have been involved...

http://www.nfl.com/teams/statistics?team=SF

Still not a whole lot of difference in how they spread the ball around...

3 "RB"s...38 recs/305 yds
3 "TE"s...31 recs/338 yds
4 "WR"s...51 recs/591 yds

Now "CrapSpree" is their leading "WR" -w- 20 recs/244 yds....

I think allot is being made of very little...We and they aren't efficient in the passing game yet and it shows across the board...

PantyRaider...We Are The #14 "O" So Be Happy About Something!!!!/_

8:39 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
PR:
As I posted prior to this season we will be a running "O" that dumps off to the "RB"s-n-"TE"s and that exactly what you are seeing here now
>>>>>


I also mentioned something similar, and looked at the offense we ran with Todd Christiansen in the 80's.

It seems to me the offense seems very comfortable throwing to RBs and TE's and posit that its prolly what the emphasize in practice... establishing a bread and butter.

I mean its almost glaringly obvious the difference... WR passes seem desperate and forced, TE and RB passes seem practiced and flowing.

Not sure if ANY WR would help if they don't emphasize WR passes in the game plan.

9:18 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

Oh and also... it shouldn't be much of a surprise that Campbell isn't throwing downfield to the WRs this year... his entire career he has been conservative (why Al wanted him kinda throws the "HE CALLS ALL THE SHOTS" theorists for a loop... but JMAC mentions is all the time.

He got criticized in Wash for being conservative, we shouldn't be expecting a gunslinger all of a sudden here.

I predict we will see much the same this weekend... TE passes and dumpoffs to the RBs.

9:27 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

PR & Gary - I have no problem with utilizing the TEs and RBs in the passing game. However, the TEs and RBs should be a supplement to the WRs production and not the other way around. As far as DHB not being targeted for attempts;

(1) not true especially with Ski
(2) could be partly true with Campbell BUT it could be a lack of confidence in DHB AND DHB not creating a viable, open target.

Bottom Line: The WRs should always be a primary weapon in ANY passing attack. The fact that we have productive TEs and RBs in the passing game DOES NOT change that fact.

For our passing attack to truly flourish and become a serious threat, the WRs need to be FAR more productive.

The measuring stick on DHB is pretty clear. He has not started 16 full NFL games which is the equivalent of 1 complete season. If you think 20 receptions and 1 TD is acceptable than your bar is way too low.

9:45 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

So we have a conservative QB throwing to backs and TEs in an offensive scheme that was built to throw the ball down field... but can't.

Suggesting we remain one-dimensional in our passing game so we can accommodate our self-inflicted deficiencies is just as pathetic as it sounds.

It's like the Raiders prefer NOT to have a balanced attack, and many of you are right on board with that.

I hope Schilens proves me wrong and has a productive second half of the season. Even if that happens, the Raiders have grossly mismanaged the WR position.

5:00 AM  
Blogger Raider Nate 75 said...

The way you stop a young corp of WR (like the Raiders have), is to physically press them. The way a young corp of WRs excel is with a vet WR helping them learn how to beat the press.
We don't have that leadership. I've said it the last 2 seasons! We need a vet WR who will help teach these guys, and lead.

6:06 AM  
Blogger H said...

OK, let me get this straight.

We have a passing game this season that is on pace for between 3,700 and 4,000 yards, with a total offense between 5,500 and 6,000 yards. Last season that would have put us in the top ten.

We have a tight end on pace for near 90 receptions and a 1,000 yards and a wide receiver looking at a possible 900 yards with 55-60 catches with an outside shot at 1,000 yards himself.

We have the #11 ranked offense in the league (7 rush 17 pass). I do believe that last season we were dead last in pass offense at this point.

Our red zone performance is on the uptick with a field goal, a TD pass and a TD run in three trips last week.

We are 2-3 and are one field goal away from being 3-2.

If I didn’t know better, from reading things here I would think we were the 0-6 team going into the game this weekend.

Absolutely, we should approach the rest of the season with guarded optimism, and all the above is no guarantee of a win this weekend. But, I really like our chances. Especially when the players get a look at us being a TD underdog to a 0-6 team. Hell, the only BSPN “expert” analyst to pick us in the game was Eric Allen, but he is a loyal soldier Raider. I would love for him to be gloating Sunday night.

Also, don’t get too exorcised over the defense just yet. We just went back to back with the number one (Dolts) and number five (Texicans) offenses in the league. Room for improvement, you bet, but we are getting better.

We have also forced 8 turnovers which puts us in the top ten in that category. The differential of zero places us at #13.

Yes, these are just stats, but they point out a trend. And, to all those who say enough with the stats, the first thing you point to about DHB are his stats.

Now, my nomination for play of the game last Sunday. Third and seven, Campbell is hit and fumbles the ball. Daniel Loper falls on the ball and has the presence of mind to start rolling. His play sets up a fourth and less than one that we convert. Only a field goal out of that drive, but it kind of set a tone for play on the offense the rest of the game.

For Sunday we need to come out hard and fast on offense and defense. We’ve proven we can come back, now we need to step on the accelerator.

Just peering through my rose colored glasses for some positive optimistic spin.

H

6:59 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
CJ: Bottom Line: The WRs should always be a primary weapon in ANY passing attack.
>>>>


Why??? Thats like saying rushing always sets up the pass. Except our 2001 offense set records doing it the other way around.

What a ridiculously blockheaded statement.

>>>>
The fact that we have productive TEs and RBs in the passing game DOES NOT change that fact.
>>>>>

You are just never happy are you?

>>>>>
NYR:
Suggesting we remain one-dimensional in our passing game so we can accommodate our self-inflicted deficiencies is just as pathetic as it sounds.
>>>>


You know... its not like the precedence for this hasn't been set.

The 1985 Raider team went 12-4 with their top WR (Dokie Williams) catching 48 balls. Christensen had 82 and Allen caught 67.

Maybe you have never heard of those two players or something?

I've pointed it out before and you and CJ quickly compartmentalized it so you can whine about our less than stellar WR corps some more.

The "Whine Brothers"... pass me some cheese.

8:00 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
We have the #11 ranked offense in the league (7 rush 17 pass). I do believe that last season we were dead last in pass offense at this point.
>>>>

Also we have to remember how horribly the QB play was to start the season. The QB play is improving rapidly.

>>>>
Yes, these are just stats, but they point out a trend. And, to all those who say enough with the stats, the first thing you point to about DHB are his stats.
>>>>


Good point!

8:06 AM  
Blogger Raider Steve in Seattle said...

What a fuckin' W last week.. Flew down from Seattle for this one, only game I'll attend this year, but those bastards in Silver and Black made it all worthwhile.. The noise in the Coli was unreal, especially on Branch's return, and then even moreso when the replay was upheld and we knew it was all over..

I was at game #1 of this damn streak vs SD (season finale in SD in '03 when I still lived in SoCal) and it was KILLER to be there to see it end.. Chanting RAAAAAAIIDERRRRSSS on the way out and through the parking lot was the best feeling ever leaving that stadium.. NO ONE gave us chance, and I could give two shits HOW we got it done, just that we did..

As for this week? Whinerth are gonna be hyped the fuck up, dudes are still NFL players and none of 'em wanna be part of an 0-6 team, so they're gonna be ready.. I hope like hell Cable has our guys ready, 'cause his penchant for sucking the week after a W pisses me the fuck off.. We need to knock these bastards in the mouth and destroy 'em, no mercy, no quarter, just bury 'em into oblivion.. A W anyway we can get it will do, 'cause we CANNOT lose to them, but a nice blowout would not suck.. Haven't had one of those in awhile..

Either way...

GO RAIDERS

FUCK THE WHINERTH..

9:19 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Come on, H and Gary! A trend of one game?

The Raiders had a total of five takeaways (only three on defense) coming into the SD game.

It's wonderful that they managed to double that total in one game, but it's hardly a trend... more like feast or famine.

This discussion (at least my part in it) started when I suggested Nick Miller should get some time at WR.

There's no question the passing game has improved over last year... how could it not. But the Raiders' QBs have been given only about three viable options in Z Miller, Murphy and McFadden or Bush.

IMO, DHB is not a reliable WR, and should not be marched out there for 4 qtrs as a top WR. Whether it's his routes, superior coverage, QB confidence or whatever, he simply isn't getting it done.

I strongly feel the Raiders should stop pretending he's a #1 WR and give some of his playing time to Nick Miller, or even Ford and JLH. All these guys are lightning fast and capable of stretching the field and blocking (two of DHB's redeeming qualities on this board).

So what may sound like complaining to some, seems painfully obvious to others.

Let's not act like all our problems are solved. I mean, we did give up 440 and 530 +- yards in consective weeks, and some here are calling it noticable improvement by our defense.???

Imagine the ruckus when we get back down into the high 300s?

I think we can be fans and still remain objective here.

9:30 AM  
Blogger H said...

Ok, NY please stop mentioning DHB's stats then.

These ARE trends. Last season this time we were 1-4 last in the league in a whole host of categories and had scored a total of 49 points.

This season we are 11 in total offense and have scored 111 total points.

The team is better in virtually every measurable category.

And so what if two of the take aways were fumbles on punts. When you look up giveaway/takeaway it dosen't make the distinction.

Most seasons are based on feast or famine. Find me a team does exactly three takeaways a game. A 96 catch receiver that catches exactly 6 a game, no more no less.

A team that leads the league in takeaways will probably have a game or two where they takaway zero.

And, quite frankly, why should we give a rats ass who is the leading receiver as long as we are scoring TD's and moving the ball? Which we are doing.

Last season after five games we had a total of four TD's, so far this season we have 9 on offense, 1 on special teams and 1 on defense.

I would surmise that we are improved and trending upward.

Just where would you rather be at this time of the season, #11 on offense with room to improve or #31, which is where we were last year with nowhere to go but up?

Might just be me, but I'll take this year over last.

H

11:06 AM  
Blogger H said...

By the way, I got no problme with Nick Miller getting a shot. If he starts performing well, then Murphy et al will only get better.

H

11:26 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

I am happy with our evident progress, especially on offense.

However, I also believe in the goal of continuous improvement. You never rest on any laurels in the NFL.

That said, DHB has had 16 games to prove that he is a #1 receiver. It would be hard to do worse with the amount of snaps he has taken. Therefore, I advocate rotating him out of that slot and seeing if someone can do better.

That doesn't mean I'm disappointed with us gaining yards on other fronts. It does mean that I'm not content with starting roles that don't make sense, and that can hinder continuous improvement.

11:31 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

"Just where would you rather be at this time of the season, #11 on offense with room to improve or #31, which is where we were last year with nowhere to go but up?"

I'd rather be 5-0.

Given the Raiders are 2-3, there must be room for improvement. I'd liked to see the Raiders make a run for the division.

The Raiders are 1-0 in the division. That's what I care about right now. But they will really need to dial it up the next few games to pace themselves with the AFC West pack.

IMO, to do so, they can hardly aford to sacrifice production from ANY position on the field... such as they continue to do with the #1 WR spot.

Forget DHB's stats. I've watched him. He looks tentative at best. Just like Campbell claims to have benefitted from watching on the sideline, so too could DHB benefit from watching for a while.

I mean, we're not talking about replacing the GM here. This should be a slam dunk. But, obviously, it's not.

12:03 PM  
Blogger H said...

Take,

“I am happy with our evident progress, especially on offense.

However, I also believe in the goal of continuous improvement. You never rest on any laurels in the NFL.”

100% agreed. I’m somewhat surprised that the offense is performing ahead of the defense, but I’ll take it. Especially since SD was a very high ranked (top three I think) defense going into the game.

We just went toe to toe with two top five offenses back to back and were still in each game late and won one. Would have liked to have won both, but we appear to be moving I the right direction.

NYRaider,

“I'd rather be 5-0.”

Me too, but that wasn’t one of the options in the question.

As for Nick Miller getting snaps, he still had some physical problems at the start of camp and saw his first regular season action on ST. That may be part of the plan, to ease him in. We shall see.

If Gallery is good enough to play, I would move Loper to RG. He’s gotten a little better each week. But, he may not have had any snaps over there.

Personally, I’m not comfortable with this game this weekend. The most dangerous teams in the NFL are winless teams.

H

12:48 PM  
Blogger H said...

One more thing.

On Sunday I wouldn't look for huge games from the wide receivers. If that happens so much the better.

But, the Whiners have been extremely susceptible to screens and other plays to backs and tight ends in the passing game.

Could be big days for Bush, Reese and Zach.

It could also mean their linebackers need to stay home more often, and they are the strength of the Whiner defense.

H

1:01 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"RT"...

In your summation of "DHB" did you take into account his other duties or are you looking for a totally one-dimensional high-stats 2nd "WR" that fits your expectations...

Enlighten me here a little...How is Miller at downfield blocking in the run game....

How does Miller's size...5'9" #180 translate into a dominate blocker or cause mismatches with the big "S"s that he would be facing...

What is there about Miller besides his speed that would draw the coverage away from other targets deep...

Just a few things that I think you and some fail to consider but are very pertinent to this game...

"CJ"....

Give me the rule your quoting that stats a "WR" must lead your team in recs or your passing attack is deficient...

As Gary-n-"H" pointed out those teams with Todd -n- Allen playing "TE"-n-"RB" and leading us in recs were far from inadequate in the passing game...As I posted our "WR"s are leading in yds -w-765 and lead by 3 in recs over the "TE"-n-"RB" so now what the hell is your complaint here...Doesn't make any sense to me...

Another point as far as leadership at the "WR" position...That ended the moment Freddy-B retired...We have not replaced him with a viable coach who has been able to continually produce talent sense...And don't think that hasn't played a role in our failures at the position...I say it damn well has...

Just like all that "BS" about Gruden choosing his own coaches but had he NOT had Freddy-B coaching those units the likelihood of him producing as well on "O" are nil....Just look at what he got out of his personnel in "TB" when he had his own hand picked staff...

PantyRaider....Just Killing Another Damn Re-Saddled "DeadHorse"!!!!/_

1:07 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"H"...

Loper seemed to play well at RG in the game I saw him in...He was one of the few who didn't fail or draw the flag...

I'm hoping that "Vald" will play well with Gallery inside....He hasn't had that opportunity yet and I'm hoping he takes the position..."Stupid Mario" has about done it with me...He might be salvageable at another position on the "OL" but I would rather see what Campbell has in him than waste time dealing with a noted vet failure...

If I'm not mistaken it was "Stupid Mario" who gave up the sack that got "GradSki" blindsided and injured...Least that could have happened is to shout out a warning to your "QB" that you failed and he's about to get murdered by the bastard that he let go...Hell in construction we always haler "HeadAche" as loud as possible so a man will turn and look for the danger and have a possibility to escape it...Haven't played this game in a # of yrs but would imagine that would still be legal/viable...

PantyRaider...."LookOut" I'm Getting You Killed!!!/_

1:22 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Darren McFadden was suited up and chances are Cable will say it’s a game time decision later this afternoon.


– Quarterback Bruce Gradkowski did not practice, with the Raiders essentially waiting to see if there’s a miraculous recovery Friday before going ahead with the obvious _ Jason Campbell will start, Kyle Boller will be the backup.



“You already know what they’re going to do,’’ Kelly said. “They’ve got a real simple game plan. They’re going to run the ball, try to chew up the clock and take shots downfield.

“We stop the running game and hopefully we can put some pressure on Alex Smith. He’s had a little trouble throwing it to the other team this year with his picks so hopefully we can put some pressure on him and cause a couple of turnovers.’’



More from "Stupid Mario" in reply to...

– When the Raiders faced the 49ers in the preseason, Mario Henderson failed to get to the outside and slow down blitzing linebacker Travis LaBoy, who flattened Campbell and left him with a stinger and injured right wrist.

LaBoy is a reserve. Henderson, along with Jared Veldheer, the other left tackle who alternates by series, will get a heavy dose of Justin Smith, the right end in a 3-4, as well as Parys Harelson, who is swifter coming from the outside than LaBoy.

“I’m not going to let that determine how I play,’’ Henderson said. “I look into that matchup and know I’ve got to do better, but I’ve got to take it play by play.’’


Now damn!!...That weak-ass lazy bastard could cost us this game...

PantyRaider..."Valds" Time Is Now!!!/_

1:43 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

NYR said: “I'd rather be 5-0.”

H said: "Me too, but that wasn’t one of the options in the question."

I don't care about overall stats and rankings. It's cool to talk about sometimes, particularly when it makes sense.

H said: "Personally, I’m not comfortable with this game this weekend. The most dangerous teams in the NFL are winless teams."

You and I agree on this. Not just because of the 49ers, but also because of the Raiders and their tendency to self-destruct after a big win.

2:13 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

The Rest of the story that some don't want to acknowledge...



“I mean, every receiver wants the ball, but it’s an offense. You’ve got to play within that offense,” Heyward-Bey said. “You’ve got to do your job and it’s not catching the ball all the time. You’ve got to block downfield, you’ve got to be a decoy, you’ve got to do a lot of different things.”

Heyward-Bey said he isn’t above lobbying with a quarterback for a play or telling him he’s open, but says in a matter-of-fact fashion, “I mean, you’ve just got to play. You’ve always got to think the ball is coming your way, and if it doesn’t you’ve got to block when somebody else catches it.”

The company line on Heyward-Bey is his mere presence opens things up for others, and indeed, tight Zach Miller’s 11-catch, 122-yard game against Houston came with some big production on flat routes which were cleared out by deeper routes run by Heyward-Bey.

The 49ers receiver Heyward-Bey will acknowledge didn’t exactly get off to a great start himself. Vernon Davis had 20 receptions as a rookie, then 52, then 31 in his first three series. He was criticized for dropped passes and being headstrong and hard to coach.

Three years in, Vernon Davis blossomed into one of the league’s best tight ends, with 78 receptions, 965 yards and 13 touchdowns last season, and 24 catches, 313 yards and two scores through five games this season.

“At Maryland, we’ve got a lot of talented guys,” Heyward-Bey said. “It might take longer for us to blow up and show the world what we can do. Vernon’s a great example of that. He’s a Pro Bowler.”


So Ya!...I mean bench the kid and stop all hope of his development while he's your #4 receiver on the field....Ya!...Like that really makes allot of damn sense...So while your at it replace him with a totally unproven little product like Miller because....Well because he looked good in camp catching a ball...

I gotta laugh at that crap...Miller at 5'9" 180#s is going to do so much more in the scheme of this "O"...Ya!...I can just see him level a big "S" downfield to free Zack or Murphy...Or trip-up that "LB" who has a bead on "Miren McBush"....

PantyRaider...What About Jecoby Ford!!!/_

He's 5#'s heavier and faster...

4:48 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Gary:

If you don't understand that WRs add a critical, dynamic element to the potency of an offense, that is your problem not mine.

My earlier comments were simply to point out that I would like to see Nick Miller be given a bigger opportunity at WR.

Getting solid production from the WR spot should be a given not the exception. The baseline for decent production for a starting WR is 50 receptions in a 16 game season.

As always, I want to see the coaching staff continue to develop our young players but also divvy up snaps based on merit not scholarship.

If an established QB like Campbell can be yanked after 6 quarters, certainly DHB can have his snaps minimized after a 16 game body of work that consists of 20 receptions and 1 TD.

By comparison, Crabtree has 68 catches and 3 TDs in 16 NFL starts.

5:29 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Well now those are some real sweet stats "CJ" that you use to publish that Neg about "DHB"...But let's look at in it a different light shall we...Let's look at it as a team this season sense we don't play half seasons in the NFL nor do we keep half stats...

2010...Leading "WR"s Raider-vs-"49-Tears"

Raiders 1st-n-2nd "WR"s...

Louis Murphy 18/304 16.9ave 1 TD
Darrius Heyward-Bey 11/142 12.9ave

"49-Tears" 1st-n-2nd "WR"s...

Michael Crabtree 20/244 12.2ave 1 TD
Josh Morgan 15/155 10.3ave 1 TD

Now just what were you bitchin about again...Oh!Ya!...You expect "DHB" to play a position for which he was not drafted...Possession "WR"...How dare our 1st rd pick play second fiddle to our 4th rd pick...Right...And for that we should take away his reps to give them to one of the little men on our roster who is yet totally unproven...Right!...I get's it now for sure...

"GAMEPLAN"/"SCHEME"....Do those words mean anything to you...Just as was declared by Hugh and reaffirmed by "DHB" it's all part of the design regardless of what a player wants it to be...They have more than a one dimensional set of duties to perform and we have our best talent on the field to carry out those duties...

I'm still waiting to hear how little 5'9" 180# Miller is suppose to supplant the 6'2" 210# "DHB" and do his job better against the big "S"s we are facing...Any word on that one "CJ"....

I fully understand the value of a "WR"....After all I played "CB" at a much lower level...But I also understand that schemes-n-gameplans effect that value accordingly and ya can't just put a blanket value on anything...

PantyRaider...This Scheme Is Working Now And It Worked For Us Before!!!!/_

Please take note of one issue that no doubt influences their decisions here...Our #1 "WR" Chaz is not yet in the game so we do what needs to be done to supplement what we have and thus the modified scheme/gameplan...Be patient...It may improve very shortly...

7:31 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
If you don't understand that WRs add a critical, dynamic element to the potency of an offense, that is your problem not mine.
>>>>

CRITICAL? CRITICAL???

Christ... when was the last time a top receiver won a ring?

Harrison with Manning, I'd guess.

Everyone else has done it more by platoon.

You are on crack on this issue.

Pass me the cheese Whine Brother.

7:33 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

10 yrs of SB winning teams leading receivers:

2009: Colston: 70 rec
2008: Ward: 81
2007: Burress: 70
2006: Harrison: 95
2005: Ward: 69
2004: Givens: 56
2003: Branch: 53
2002: Johnson: 76
2001: Brown: 101
2000: Sharpe (TE) 67

Average: 73.8

The current leading WR for the Raiders has 18 receptions (considering childishly ignoring our TE with 28) our WR will end up with 57.6 receptions.


Uhh... less than one catch a game difference? Miller would end up with 89... the third highest on the list?

Whine on brothers!

QB's win titles... WR's are clogs in the machine....

8:29 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Gary:

I'm quite certain if I looked up the WRs production on the SB teams that it would equate to 150+ receptions. This would include the #1, #2, and #3 WRs. Our WR production drops off a steep cliff AFTER our #1 WR (Murphy).

Our top 3 WRs are on a pace for a collective 102 receptions.

The top 3 WRs for the last SB victors (Saints) top 3 WRs had 166 receptions (70, 51, 45).

Last season our top 3 WRs produced 34, 29, 19 receptions or 82 total.

The #1 WRs production you listed is what you would expect BECAUSE their #2 and #3 WRs produced.

8:45 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"CJ"...

Ya!...So that's why you picked the "49-Tears" to compare our "WR"s too...And than you tried to justify spiting that comparison between 2 half seasons noting that our "DHB" was injured by the time "JeFat" was replaced so didn't have a chance to benefit from any moderately improved play at "QB"...That strategy fails so now your all about comparing us to the recent "SB" winning teams....Man-0-man you do like to dig for that Neg don't you...

Than you bashed us for talkin in the past but that's all you want to do noting how miserable our team was last season instead of embracing the vast improvements that have transpired this season...Talk about having 2 worlds...

We now have a solid #14 "O" after 5 weeks of play...About 1/3 season...But you continue to paint us "Bleak" instead of "Back"...."09" we were #31....Are you still so proud of that losing that you can't/won't let it go....

OK...Let's revisit it again just for you...

Raiders "09" -vs- "10"...

"O"-#31...........#14
Pass-#29..........#20
Rush-#21..........#7
Scoring-#31.......#11
"OL"-#30..........#28

The only thing that hasn't improved noticeably is that damn "OL"....

Our "O" is 55% better than it was last season according to team rankings...Our passing game has shown a 31% improvement over last season....There has been a whooping 66% improvement in our running game so far this season and an equally impressive 65% improvement in our ability to score points which translate to possible "V"s....

Now granted we're not an elite team yet but with such vast improvement on the "O" how can you still be beating that damn "Doom-n-Gloom" out of that drum of yours...

If anything there is reason for concern regarding our "D"...

"D"-#26...........#23
Pass-#7...........#10
Rush-#29..........#31
Scoring-#23.......#28
Sacks-#11 Tie.....#13
Int's-#31 Tie.....#28 Tie

We all know we are better but it doesn't translate that way in the stats yet...Prolley because with the improvement in our "O" we are forcing teams to go at us just that much harder instead of laying back and protecting a lead.....

PantyRaider...Find A Positive Vein Bro Please!!!/_

11:00 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Wow! What's wrong with limiting a player that doesn't produce and replacing him (at least part-time) with some other options to see what combination of players make the most sense?

Is this concept really THAT difficult to crasp?

Scholarships have become a way of life not just for the Raiders, but for the fans too. Amazing!

5:26 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Is "crasp" a word? I meant grasp. You get the idea.

We should all stand behind getting players on the field who give the Raiders the best opportunity to win games. I don't get defending an unproductive player with the notion that somebody else at another position will pick up his slack.

7:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A write up on Peter Richmond's book

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Raiders+played+hard+partied+harder/3680529/story.html

8:24 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

I asked before -n- I ask again...

How are Miller/Ford going to match-up against the big "S"s they would face playing in "DHB"s shoes...How are they at 5'9" 180-185#s going to produce as downfield blockers in our run game...How are they going to draw coverage away from other targets as in "Decoy"...

So basically how are they going to pick up the slack in all the other facets of this game if "DHB" ain't in there...Too difficult to answer so it's just dismissed....Right!!!...

Maybe you should at least pear into the "DepthChart" and let it revel to you that Miller backs up Murphy on the right on the "LOS" while Higgins/Ford are listed back-ups to "DHB" slotted...But whom ever made up that "Depth Chart" is just stupid and doesn't know anything about the game of football....Right!!!!...And by the way Murphy is back-up to Chaz...So now your asking to move the 3rd "WR" from right to left and he should start...Ya!...Now that makes allot of damn sense doesn't it...

Point long forgotten or never understood...

We did NOT draft "DHB" as a Freddy-B/Timmy Brown type "WR"....He was drafted as a Branch/Jet type "WR"...The "Crab" is not the same type of player...So why are you all demanding that "DHB" is transformed into what he is not and compared to what he is not...Do you demand that we compare Marcel Reece to "D-Mac" -n- Bush...There all backs...Why the damn hell are all "WR"s treated = on this board....

PantyRaider....This "DeadHorse" Shouldn't Be Allowed To Keep Galloping Along!!!/_

11:42 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Oh!..And by the way...

"JLH" is 5'11" 185#s and has some experience which neither Miller/Ford have...

11:47 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Interesting to note:

The teams we lost to are all 3-2 -n- top or top tied in their divisions...

The teams we beat are all 2-3 like us and playing 2nd place in their divisions...

Prior to the start of the season I picked the games I expected to lose..."AZ" was on that list as was "Tenn"...But here it is again for comparison on how we get to 10-n-6...

Tenn......Loss
StL.......Win
AZ........Loss
Hou.......Win
SD........Loss
SF........Win
Den.......Win
Sea.......Win
KC........Win
Bye...............
Pits......Loss
Mia.......Loss
SD........Win
Jac.......Win
Den.......Win
Indy......Loss
KC........Win

So we're right on schedule for how I predicted -w- SD-n-Hou swapped...But I had us at 3-3 playing 500 by week #6 against SF...6-n-3 at the Bye...Finish with 4-n-3 in the last 7...10-n-6 and in the "PO" hunt -n- competing for the AFCW...Now those 3 Loss games at the end of our schedule don't appear as tough to win but not easy either...

We now need to finish a 5 game win steak that started last Sunday against SD...Now that's a definite challenge for a team who hasn't posted many back-to-back wins the last half of this decade...

PantyRaider....We Need To Take It With Force!!!/_

12:51 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

"How are Miller/Ford going to match-up against the big "S"s they would face playing in "DHB"s shoes...How are they at 5'9" 180-185#s going to produce as downfield blockers in our run game...How are they going to draw coverage away from other targets as in "Decoy"..."

Let me take these one by one ...

The WRs are mostly matched up with CBs not safeties. In pass defense, Safeties are used to take away the deep strikes and roll coverage to bracket WRs. As you probably know, the vast majority of CBs in the league are relatively small.

Bottom Line:
The size of the WR doesn't correlate directly with productivity. 3 of the top 5 WRs in the NFL in receptions this season are relatively small. #1 Wayne, #2 Austin Collie, #5 Danny Amendola. Other top WRs in the league such as Wes Welker, Santana Moss, Steve Smith, Eddie Royal, Donald Driver are well under 6'0".

As far as being able to block ... a smaller blocker has to compensate for a lack of size with grit, technique, and positioning. Most of the time it is only a matter of engaging and staying in front of the opponent. Downfield blocking is important but it pales in comparison to receptions, YAC, TDs.

Acting as a "decoy" ... another highly over-rated skill for a WR. A true decoy works when the opponent is genuinely worried about stopping the WR by rolling coverage his way. If you want to get real about the "decoy", both Ford and Miller possess the speed to run clear out routes. As a matter of fact, Ford is faster than DHB if you want to send him deep as a decoy.

A starting WR in the NFL is on the field to primarily produce in terms of making receptions that lead to 1st down conversions, loosening up the D to aid the rushing attack, picking up big chunks of yards, and generating TDs.

1:19 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"CJ"...

Nice thoughts and I appreciate the effort...But here are a few more things to consider...

Most teams play some form of Zone which translates to a "CB" releasing his deep threat to the "S" or giving under coverage while the "S" gives top coverage in which case 2 "DB"s are being occupied by the one "WR"..."DHB" plays the part of the deep threat and thus would be treated in this fashion the majority of time...

"CB"s are usually smaller -n- faster but not as small as 5'9" 180#s at the pro level...Miller/Ford with their size -n- speed would do better as underneath type "WR"s who drive their man deep and cut off their routs on comebacks/hooks/slants than to engage the "S"s on deep patters where they would be outmatched in height...They may also do better at yds after the catch on short timing routs...

"DHB" 13yd ave..

As you posted...

Wayne 6'0" 198#s -n- 13yd ave...

Austin Collie 6'0" 200#s 14yd ave...

Danny Amendola 5'11" 186#s 9yd ave...

Santana Moss 5'10" 205#s 14yd ave...

Steve Smith 5'11" 195# 10yd ave...

Donald Driver 6'0" 194#s 11yd ave...

Only 2 players you posted fit the description of Miller/Ford...

Wes Welker 5'9" 185#s 8yd ave...
Highest in recs but not yards and lowest in ave...Tate-n-Hernandez are 6'1" -n- about 13yd ave...
Moss is 6'4" 15yd ave while at NE...


Eddie Royal 5'10" 180#s 11yd ave...
3rd "WR" -n- the others are 6'+ -w- Loyd showing a 19yd ave as their deep threat...

Obviously underneath receivers and not the deep threats...Neither of these guys are running down the field matched up against the big "S"s...Most of their yds are prolley yds after the catch...

Nice try but you just posted conclusive evidence that Miller/Ford don't fit the position that "DHB" was drafted to fill...Big deep target -w- speed who draws attention away from the other "WR"s/"TE"s/"RB"s....

Your description of the starting "WR" may apply in most cases but how do you explain both the Raiders-n-"49-Tears" who showcase the "TE"s-n-"RB"s as the primary receivers instead of the "WR"s who play 3rd fiddle but gain the most yds...Or how do you explain our old teams that showcased Todd/Marcus as the primary receivers while the "WR" was 3rd...

1981-to-1987 was led by the "RB"s-n-"TE"s until 1988 when Timmy Brown came on to lead that team in recs...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rai/1988.htm

Now I don't much care about all the other teams in the NFL...this is and has been the Raider way and that's totally kool with me...I luv seeing it work and suspect to see it produce well again tomorrow...

PantyRaider...Kill That Damn "DeadHorse" -n- Stop The Galloping Across This Board!!!!/_

4:05 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

Again to comparing today to 198whatever? You can't win consistently without using WR's as a primary weapon. You handcuff the team. Having a Tim Brown or 2 at WR would add a HUGE dimension to the Offense. Murphy is a good target, DHB isn't.

DHB is still in there because of Al Davis.

DECOYS have to be effective FIRST BEFORE they can be a decoy. If the WR is no threat, then he ISN'T A DECOY. DHB isn't a threat, he holds back potential for a more diverse Offense.

CJ is right about WR blocking, they don't have to be a pulling guard to be effective. Using blocking / WR as an important attribute is like saying a LB's hands are as important as stuffing the run. ELITE WR's are decoys, WR's who haven't done a damn thing in the league are not, case closed.

This game on Sunday is HUGE for the franchise. If the Raiders can do it, it will do great things for the team. This is going to be the game of the year for the Raiders. Watching the S.D. game brought back some pride that I haven't felt for a long while. If it continues.....I'll be the first to eat my words.

JONES

5:41 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

I don't have a dog in this hunt. I don't care if DHB is a first rounder or sixth rounder.

The dude has one touchdown in 16 games, and one reception for two yards in his last two games. That's called lack of production.

WR is a production position. If he's a blocking superstar, I wasn't aware of that. I'm not sure how a player can be considered a consistent downfield threat when his primary contribution is blocking.

Murphy has more than double the yards of DHB this year, and outclassed him last year as well. So if DHB is a victim of the scheme, then what's to explain Murphy more than doubling his production?

If anyone is a decoy in this offense, it's the guy who has actually proved himself a threat: Murphy.

I really doubt that DHB is keeping defensive coordinators up at night.

In the consistent absence of production, and in the pursuit of continual improvement, I would change things up on DHB's side of the ball to see if we can boost production on that side of the ball.

6:48 PM  
Blogger x said...

DECOYS have to be effective FIRST BEFORE they can be a decoy. If the WR is no threat, then he ISN'T A DECOY. DHB isn't a threat, he holds back potential for a more diverse Offense.

Spot on.

I think if you asked any DC or DB about the "DHB as decoy" argument, they'd chuckle. You have to DO SOMETHING first.

This is such a ridiculous argument.

Look, I'd like the kid to succeed as much as the next Raider fan, but facts are facts, and any non-Koolaid drinking fan knows that picking him at #7 was a massive reach. Crabtree is so much more refined as a football player - he plucks the ball out of the air like he has stickum, DHB fights it. Looks to be better after the catch too.

I hope Heyward-Bey does develop to be at least a decent WR someday, but not really confident. Right now though, he's taking up a starting slot that he should maybe at least share with someone else.

7:08 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"X"-n-"RT"...

You make statements but where's the facts...Have you seen at least one "DC" ignore "DHB" as a viable threat...Have you seen at least one "DB" treat "DHB" as a non-factor in any game this season...

Last Sunday he was thrown to twice and he had tight coverage on both plays...Why??..If he's such a non-factor than why does he get so much attention...Have you noticed that virtually every "D" we have faced this tear is playing some sort of deep zone...Why would they do that if there isn't any threat...

I posted the comments from your own "J-mac" on this thread but maybe you missed it or just don't want to consider it...Look again because he reaffirmed exactly what I'm posting about that your all trying to sweep under the table...
----------------------------------
The company line on Heyward-Bey is his mere presence opens things up for others, and indeed, tight Zach Miller’s 11-catch, 122-yard game against Houston came with some big production on flat routes which were cleared out by deeper routes run by Heyward-Bey.

“I mean, every receiver wants the ball, but it’s an offense. You’ve got to play within that offense,” Heyward-Bey said. “You’ve got to do your job and it’s not catching the ball all the time. You’ve got to block downfield, you’ve got to be a decoy, you’ve got to do a lot of different things.”

Heyward-Bey said he isn’t above lobbying with a quarterback for a play or telling him he’s open, but says in a matter-of-fact fashion, “I mean, you’ve just got to play. You’ve always got to think the ball is coming your way, and if it doesn’t you’ve got to block when somebody else catches it.”
---------------------------------
Now y'all do a nice job of posting gibberish but when/where is any damn evidence to support anything you argue...Oh! ya!...A single stat of "DHB"s receptions counting the 1st half of "09" and 1st 1/4 of "10"...Real impressive shit there folks...

Now do yourselves a favor tomorrow and pay attention to the game...

#1...How many 8-man boxes do our "RB"s face...

#2...How often at least one "DB" is NOT playing deep...

#3...At least one play where "DHB" is wide open...un-covered...Ignored...

#4...How many times you don't see him engaging a defender downfield in a run or pass play in his area...

#5...How many times our #1 "WR" Murphy is singled-up in coverage...

#6...How many times Zack is singled-up in coverage...

#7...If what you post was true Zack-n-Murphy will draw the double frequently tomorrow while "DHB" is singled-up and no "S" has deep protection...Prove it...Show it because I just don't see it happening Baby!!!...

I have seen Zack draw the double -w- "S"/"LB" coverage while Murphy is one-on-one -w- a "CB" or in the zone -n- "DHB" has the "CB" tight and the "S" is deep center....5 men in coverage translates into 6 in the box...Or did I miscount...

Than on single "RB" 3 "WR" sets -w- "JLH" in pattern "DHB" continues to draw a "CB" -n- the "S" continues to ply deep...All of which testifies that your takes are wrong...

Now as a result our "RB"s have been freed-up in coverage and consistently done damage in this "O"...Now prove that ain't so...

PantyRaider...The Evidence Is Staggering!!!/_

8:01 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Okay, you got me.

DHB should have a lock on the vast majority of snaps as long as he can maintain his current production level, which puts him on pace for about 35 catches and no touchdowns.

If he can maintain that level of production, he should have a lock on the starting role for many years to come, because he is allegedly blocking well and opening things up underneath.

Is that what we're aiming for here? The middle of the pack?

Personally, I want all of our personnel producing and scoring touchdowns: TE, RB and WR.

9:10 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"RT"...

I recently posted our improvements over last season -w- the note that other improvements should be forth coming along with the note that when Chaz is back on the field we may start to see some marked improvement in the general play of the "WR"s as a group....Now how is that posting contentment with low production...

Your arguments were that Miller should get his reps and that's what I'm arguing/posting against not whether we should desire improvement....

My how y'all like to change the stance when your "DeadHorses" die before your eyes...

PantyRaider...Just Put Another Saddle On The Horsey!!!/_

9:26 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Point taken. I don't think I ever mentioned Miller. I did say that I think it's time to shake things up on DHB's side of the ball in the pursuit of more production, if only because it would be hard to produce less.

Surely we can be creative here and change things up with the personnel at hand? Or are we so thin at WR that no matter how low DHB's production, he must maintain his current snap count?

If that's the case, then we're right back to the old debate about why we are so consistently lacking depth at WR.

9:37 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Why anyone wants DHB to start AND get the vast majority of offensive snaps is truly a mystery.

Objectively speaking, his lack of production is holding back our passing game from reaching it's full potential.

Let DHB develop in a more natural, merit based fashion by giving him 25 snaps vice 60. I don't care if DHB "starts" the game but rotate him with other WRs during the course of the game.

Why shouldn't the Raiders use a WR by committee approach for the #2 WR paired up with Murphy?

What is the downside of giving Miller and JLH a chunk of DHB's snaps?

He isn't a decoy. He is a decent block. And? He has produced less than 2 receptions per game in 16 games started.

DHB is the poster child for a scholarship player.

9:37 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

____"Last Sunday he was thrown to twice and he had tight coverage on both plays...Why??..If he's such a non-factor than why does he get so much attention...Have you noticed that virtually every "D" we have faced this tear is playing some sort of deep zone...Why would they do that if there isn't any threat..."____

It's these kind of comments that you just can't reason with.

He was thrown to twice?... Yeah, so..., it means not much is coming his way.

He had tight coverage on both plays?.... Doesn't that mean he ISN'T open, shouldn't he be open?

Virtually every team played a deep zone,hmmmm...Virtually? I would say with complete confidence that ALL teams at one point or another in the game plays a deep zone more than once. It's like saying " virtually ever team has thrown a hook route", it has no meaning. Blanket statements that have no meaning. Waste, you sure waste a lot of space on here. It's like William Shatner trying to be Robert DeNiro, it just doesn't work, stick to stats.

JONES

10:46 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"CJ"...

You have an obvious "HateTrip" with the player...I don't and I can't help you there...

My question is why your so dissed about the same thing that was from 81-87 with our team...Did those squads depress you so much too...Ya know we did make and win "PO"s that way...And the "SB"...

Oh! But that was before and it can't work today...Ya!...Right!...Like the game has changes so much....And lookie here other "D"s are having trouble stopping what we do with our "RB"s-n-"TE"s even though the "WR"s may not be 1st consideration weapons...

And lookie here your worried about playing "SF" who do the exact same thing...

But don't let reality fool you...It's all done with mirrors...

"RT"...

You may not have mentioned Miller but he is the subject of replacement on this board...As I posted when Chaz returns to the field things may get better..."JLH" will return to the bench and Chaz/Murphy will prolley be starters along with "DHB" and we may use the 2 back set less often...So there you get a partial change-up...

PantyRaider...See What Happens Tomorrow!!!/_

11:17 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Man I just don't get it...

The Raiders have returned to their roots and been productive with it and some are so discombobulated by it that they fill this board with tears...

A draft pick is not given time to develop...

A working system needs to be abolished...

50% improvement in one off-season is intolerable...

PantyRaider...I'm Lookin Excited My Team Tomorrow Sorry You Can't Enjoy That!!!/_

11:25 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"My Team Is Looking Exciting Tomorrow Sorry You Can't Enjoy That"

11:26 PM  
Blogger onandonandon said...

Having attended a game this season, I can say with certainty that DBH is still one of the more clueless starting receivers I've ever see in uniform. He's improved slightly this season, but let's face it, the only team in the NFL he would ever be a starter on is the Raiders. Now, if I was a defensive coordinator, I'd play the Raiders deep myself. Our receivers aren't very good route runners and are pretty easy to read as far as underneath routes go. I really though Jackson was going to bring more twists and turns to our offense, but maybe our personnel on offense isn't as talented as some Raiders fans may believe. DBH is the worst of them of course. As far as his speed: gotta say; he doesn't stand out as the fastest guy on the field. Maybe it has to do with his tentativeness running routes. But I suspect that some track guys just don't have the same leg drive in pads.

My 0.02. I'm sure it'll rub some people the wrong way, but I gotta call it as I see it. Coaches love to say how route running is teachable. Yes, to an extent. But you either have the instincts for it or you don't. And there's nothing you can do about hands the size of a baby's.

Agreed about Murphy BTW; he's got the best hands on the team and runs the best routes. He's still a bit undisciplined on his routes, but at least there's something there to work with.

3:06 AM  
Blogger onandonandon said...

Just a note about Timmy Brown: he came into the league as a speed receiver. After he blew out his knee, he changed his game. Dude was an incredible athlete, but more importantly, he was an intelligent receiver, who knew how to read defenses and find open spots on the field. He and Jerry Rice were the two best route runners of their time IMO.

3:12 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

It’s an open and shut case. It has become almost as indefensible to start DHB as it was to start Russell.

What happened to earning playing time? What happened to starting your best players? This guy was given a starting slot and has held it without cause.

There are no stats or comparisons that can be made to suggest DHB is a good WR. DHB remains well behind his draft class, and he is behind this year’s draft class. At what point should we expect him to catch up the rookie class?

I agree completely with “x” on this statement:

“Crabtree is so much more refined as a football player - he plucks the ball out of the air like he has stickum, DHB fights it.”

It’s Game Day! GO RAIDERS!!

GO DHB! Prove me wrong!!!!!

6:03 AM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

PR -

You couldn't be further from the truth. I have no "hate" trip with DHB. Quite the contrary. I like DHB as a person (works hard and seems humble and team oriented) and want him to do well.

However, unlike you, I am an objective Raider fan. The team's success is my focus. DHB has been a major disappointment in terms of producing what any fan would expect out of a WR who starts and gets 60+ snaps per game.

At this point in time, I'm pointing the finger at the Raiders coaching staff for not being more creative with the personnel at hand to squeeze out as much production out of the WR position.

It's very simple:

* Playing time based on merit.
* Team success.
* Individual performance accountability.
* No scholarships allowed.

10:16 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Well "CJ" at this point they be squeezing the "TE"s-n-"RB"s pretty damn hard and to tell the truth I'm so damn please with seeing the progress that I'm more than willing to cut them some slack this early in "Hue's 1st season as "OC" with this team...He has already worked wonders having us at #14 from #31...Now when we have all the tools on the field healthy at the same time maybe he can get us down to #10 and that would be "Glory" in my very sore eyes...

PantyRaider...Go Hou/StL/Jets -n- GO RAIDERS!!!!/_

Look at what StL is doing to SD...Up 10-0 and driving again...

10:53 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

onandonandon....

Your sight and that of others seems to have some deficiencies...I listen to the radio broadcast and hear something entirely different...I also see other posting of fans at games and see something entirely different...

Now I plan on making the "SeaChicken" game in 2 weeks and maybe the KC game after so will get an opportunity to see for myself...

But go back a few weeks ago...Weeks #2-n-#3...His production was up but now teams are focusing on shutting him down...So what games are you at specifically and what coverages were they running...

That info gives me some comparative material to use to appraise the value of what your posting...

I'm not at the game yet so only get a TV view which is very limited and the radio view which is slightly slanted...

"StL" Scores again...Up 17-0 on "SD"....What a beautiful sight...Also of note they were NOT as weak of a team as their past records suggest...That was my opinion when we played them too...At 2-3 they could move up to "500" in a race with "AZ" who also aren't as bad as projected...

PantyRaider....The Whole NFL Is Upside Down!!!/_

"KC" goes up 14-7...

11:23 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Poked my head in the bar to make sure the Raider/"49-Tears" game will be on...The Charger fans are already crying and the guy who was jeering with me last week wouldn't even look up when I waved at him...Too freakin funny...He left in the 3rd saying he would finish watching at home but I knew he was wilting and couldn't take me in his face when they imploded...Too freakin funny....

Damn "Squaws" up 21-10 and pushing the Texans all over the field...Not good if they make 4-n-1....

Rams 17-3 and driving so hope "SD" falls to 2-n-4...

PantyRaider...Lots Tp Ponder!!!!/_

11:54 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Damn!...
KC" is up 24-14 and already have 180yds rushing against a good run "D" in Houston...Running wild...

"SD" coming back...10-17 on the "Lambs"...

12:12 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

"Your sight and that of others seems to have some deficiencies...I listen to the radio broadcast and hear something entirely different..."

Yeah, don't believe your lying eyes. Take the word of others.

12:23 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Stick your childish crap up your ass boy...Nothing is posted in your direction now shut the fuck up...

Time to head into the bar...Back after the game...

12:32 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Game thread is open.

12:57 PM  

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