Saturday, April 25, 2009

And The Raiders Select...

I've decided that I'm not too keen on taking a wide receiver with our first pick today. Crabtree is starting to sound like a diva-in-training. I like Maclin, but not this early in the draft. 

I think it's easy to overvalue the wide receiver position, and our track record in that arena isn't very good lately. Randy (Alligator Arms) Moss, Jerry (Can't Find A Job) Porter, Alvis (Old Man) Whitted, Javon (Vegas) Walker, Ashley Lelie...Think about those names for a second. Honestly, I don't trust us to make the right choice if we go after a wide receiver in the first round. 
If I'm hell bent on upgrading our receiving corps, I'd rather throw the Cardinals a pick or two for a proven commodity like Anquan Boldin. Sure, he's become a bit of a complainer in Arizona, but I think it's circumstantial rather than chronic. The dude is tough as nails and his effort is unquestioned. 
If not that, then look for a diamond in the rough in the later rounds. We found Higgins in the third round. He's not only a great return man, but he's become a solid long-ball and quick-strike threat as well. 
Which brings me to our first pick today. It's time to test the tackle waters again, on either the offensive or defensive side. I can't say who it should or will be, except that it should be the best available player at either of those positions once we're on the clock. 
Put down the scissors and back away from the receivers, safteties and cornerbacks. Let's tighten up and toughen up our lines and get back to establishing hard-nosed fronts that will allow our skill positions to truly shine. 

251 Comments:

Blogger nyraider said...

There are also many veteran WRs to look at after the draft, so there should be no 1st-round urgency to pick a WR.

9:57 AM  
Anonymous LK said...

Agree, Take. I've been on Robiskie in Rd2 forever. Love to see Monroe at 7, and I'm coming around to Andre Smith [even though I keep seeing those big floppin' titties from his pro day]

10:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hell yeah RT, where is the beef?

I'd also like to see us take one of the top 3 Centers with our 2nd pick, assuming we don't trade it for Boldin and there is not great value at WR when the time comes. A draft like this is rare with 3 very good Centers.

These NFL Network bastards tricked me. It looked like the draft started at 8:00 but it's actually 1:00, and the picking won't start until 1:30. AAAghhhhh!

Psycho

11:12 AM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Matt Jones, Drew Bennett, Amani Toomer, Anquin Boldin (if a reasonable contract can be worked out), 2nd round (Hicks, Robiskie), 3rd round or later (Ramses Barden) ... there are ample opportunities to upgrade the WR spot.

Yes, put down the scissors and realize that the success of an NFL team relies largely on the LARGE men in the trenches.

I would be thrilled to sign Andre Smith, Michael Oher, BJ Raji, or trade down.

Would I endorse Crabtree. No

Would I support Crabtree. Absolutely.

There is 1 very intriguing possibility in this year's 1st round. If Sanchez is still available at #7, how about swinging a trade with the Skins or Jets for picks and 1 proven player?

The Skins or Jets would be getting who I think is the best QB in the draft. The Raiders get multiple picks and another key cog to the team.

Please Al and Tom. Pick up the phone a few minutes before your pick and speed dial the Jets and Skins. Work 1 team's interest against the others and get the best deal possible for your OAKLAND RAAAAAAAAAAAAIDERS!

11:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I thought we should've gone after Torry Holt.

Psycho

12:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brain Fart!
The big development today is teams like the Jets & Skins are playing cat & mouse to leap-frog into a spot for QB Sanchez.

There are talks of going as far up as #2 but my opinion is that would be just too much. Why #2 when you could just wait for him to drop a few & hope SEA doesn't take him, which they probably won't.

The key is JAX at #8, they want to jump down because they don't like the value they're looking at.

So I'm the Raiders sitting in a prime spot to command big $ for a team desperate to jump just ONE more spot and ensure they get their man. The Jets are the most desperate, but the Skins have damn near burned a bridge with their current QB and would be wise to actually get another one.

If I'm Al I seriously consider taking the vast booty and sailing off into the sunset, hoping to still pick up a good player at #13 or #17. And I think Maclin will still be there for either pick so no more "reaching". Plus one of the top 4 OT's might still slip to #13, the only thing is the Skins don't have a 2nd round pick to give. Maybe they'd give up a good player. LaRon Landry? Santana Moss? Some OT or a WR I don't know about?

Psycho

1:05 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Psycho....

I fell for the false crap also...Started at 0-800 pm here which was 0-600 am OakTown time just to find out it was later...0-300 am as in about NOW...

"AZ" claims the rumors about Boldin are false and they have NOT lowered their draft valuation at all....But they also claim they never posted any draft value for the player and are planning to keep him....Sounds like smoke from "Waki-Tabacki" to me....

"WR" @ #7....

I can endorse it completely...Am I disappointed if we get Andra Smith....NOT in the least...But for the value of the pick the "Crab" is the very best player on the board...

Am I disappointed if we get "Raj" at "DT"....Yes....I don't believe he merits that high of a pick for what he brings....He is less-than Darrell Russell of "07" which was the last time we spent a 1st rd pick on the "DL"...

"RT"...

Put some of those names up regarding our "DL" and tell me you completely trust us to make the right decision on one now with the #7 pick...Look at the big money we threw at these players who don't produce and tell me your happy with it...

"OL"....

Galery was the last one and he failed at the drafted position...Made the team by moving to "G"....Now look at out track record lately at those positions and tell me your completely satisfied with our selection of "FA"s and recent draft picks...."McQUinston"....Need I say more....Remember how ya'll jumped on him as the second coming of "Wiz"....

PantyRaider....Best Player Available!!!/_

1:10 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

So now after all the hype from NFL.com I am getting absolutely "Squat" from their live feed....NO sound and the clock just ran out on the "Lambs"...

Oh!..Wait...There it is...."OT" goes off the board...NO trade...Al will NOT select the 2nd best player this high in the draft so scratch off that position....

Unless he has "AS" rated as the top pick at "OT" as I think he might...That's where he was rated before all the bad "Pub" sent him down the board....

"KC"....5 min and counting...

1:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Panty,
I hope you don't get your wish on Crabtree. I think I might hate the guy. I guess we'll find out VERY soon!

Chefs got Jackson? That came from left field.

Psycho

1:28 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

Where are the cries of "Reach!" I'm interested in a Caterpillar this year...Raji or Andre Smith at this point. I'm not wild about a WR with the first pick either.

1:31 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

So...

The "Squaws" up-set the MOCKs and take the "DE"...

Now we can scratch that position off...Al will NOT be drafting a "DE" at #7...

The "OLB" remains....Where does he fall...Could he possible fall to #7....If so that totally screws-up all my predictions....He is a higher rated player than the "Crab"...

Please Help....

Is the draft being covered on the radio...If so please send me the station name and call letters so I can search for it....I'm going nuts from the silence....

PantyRaider....Can't Hear a Damn Thing!!!!/_

1:31 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

I wish we could swing a trade to get another second round pick. I would target Alex Mack @ C and Brian Robiskie with those picks. Question is, what would we have to give up to get that extra pick?

1:34 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"OLB" falls...Scratch that off the big board....NO "OLB" @ #7....

1:34 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"Jets" make the trade so here goes the second "QB"...

1:41 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

OK....Thank You BSPN....I now have a live radio feed....NO longer is "Hells Silent Abyss"....I'm Feed and can hear it....

http://sports.espn.go.com/stations/player?station=espn

PantyRaider....Draft Fanatic!!!/_

1:45 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

3 of the big 4 OL's are still available! if not crabtree, take monroe if cincy doesn't take him.

1:48 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Tyson Jackson at #3? Can you say ... REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEACH?

This guy is a mid first rounder.

Stafford, Smith, Jackson, Curry, Sanchez ... after Cincy takes Andre Smith we will have our pick amongst Monroe, Oher, Crabtree. My pick is Monroe who I didn't think would be available.

Without 1 doubt in my mind, Monroe is:

The most polished LT and
the absolute BEST LT fit for ZBS.

Having said that I'm convinced we will take Crabtree.

1:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kenyon Coleman was part of the big trade. Remember that guy?

I'm liking out OT options right about now.

Psycho

1:49 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

B.J. Raji!(clap, clap, clap, clap, clap)

1:51 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"OT"..."AS" is now gone so I'm officially off the "OT" desire list at #7...

1:52 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

Six years of being one of the worst run defenses in the league. Stop the bleeding. Raji is there for the taking. Take him! He's ours!

1:53 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

The Oakland Raiders select....

Micheal the "Crab"...."WR"....

Horay!...Horay!....

I picked it 3 years in a row....

PantyRaider....Lovin Ya Al!!!/_

1:55 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

WHAT THE F$%&*()())

1:57 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Say what? Don't you trade down if you're going to make that pick?

1:57 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

Try Darrius Heyward-Bey. Welcome to the family. I hope he's not James Jett II.

1:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Horrible pick. We could've gone down to about #20 and still get this guy. WTF Al? You got your new James Jett, congratulations.

Psycho

1:58 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

al davis is f-ing CRAZY!

1:58 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

That just fucking "SUCKS"....

Can you say "REACH"....

FUCKED-UP.....

PantyRaider....Deep Depression!!!/_

1:58 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

We just proved Michael Lombardi right. Damn.

1:58 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Al Davis pick!!!!!

WTF? They could have traded down 10 picks and got this guy.

1:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Panty,
Just so you know, the NFL Network footage of Crabtree's response confirmed my beliefs. He was extremely happy NOT going to the Raiders. He was laughing histerically with the guy next to him. Rightfully so IMO.

Psycho

2:01 PM  
Blogger AvantGrape said...

Good friggin God! The curse of Al Davis strikes yet again. WTF?? You pass on Crabtree for a receiver who can't run routes. Haven't we seen this shit before. It's so unpredictably predictable.

2:01 PM  
Blogger wtdavid said...

I guess the Raiders will be picking in the top 10 again next year.

2:02 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

At least he looked excited to get picked. From the rumblings I've been hearing Crabtree wasn't too interested in being a Raider. I don't drink but I feel like I need one.

2:02 PM  
Blogger wtdavid said...

And Monroe was sitting there. WTF happened to one of those "Cadillac" tackles?

2:03 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

incredible! this is a big time wasted pick!

THANKS AL!

season tickets anyone?

2:04 PM  
Blogger AvantGrape said...

Please, let's not hear Al's merry band of jockers make excuses for this one. Speed kills all right!

Anyone who's seen HB play in college can testify to the fact that this kid ain't a top 10 quality pick. Hey Al, you fucking asshole. Route running and hands are far more important than how fast you run the 40 you stupid DIPSHIT!

2:05 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

So this must be the "Vid" that sold Al on this guy....

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f88190

Can't help it...This just "SUCKS"...I hope I'm proven totally wrong....BUT....The "Crab" is going to totally out-shine this speedster from....Where....

Pantyraider...NOT a Cable Pick!!!/_

2:06 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

wtdavid - we're talking about the al davis factor here. what did you expect? this is ANOTHER al davis fuck-up!

2:06 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Davis' obession with speed is beyond comprehension. He'll probably pick the fastest DB with the 2nd pick.

2:07 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

Maybe not NYR, this year's class of DBs were rather slow.

2:09 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

DHB makes no sense whatsoever. Can a guy who can run fly patterns help a team that has lost 11 or more games the past six seasons?

Sorry but this pick has taken all the air out of my balloon. The guy I really feel sorry for is Tom Cable. I'm sure he will be a good soldier about it and say all the "right things" about DHB but to pass on Eugene Monroe is pure lunacy.

Looking forward to BlandaRocks spin. Al Davis love for the stop watch is destroying this team. Ughh. Time to get a beer.

2:09 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

In 12 games last year, Bey had 42 catches.

A full eleven of those catches came in a rout against lowly Wake Forest.

In the two preceding games against Virginia and Clemson, he had ZERO catches.

Crabtree had 97 receptions.

2:11 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Meanwhile the "Crab" continues to fall...Maybe all the way to #31..."AZ"....

Why the fuck would you do this....Just give that pick to "AZ" and get Boldin a proven warrior who can catch-n-run....

The only way we get bailed out of this is if somehow we end up with Boldin and have a new double threat at the "WR" position....Otherwise...We just got totally screwed by our fearless leader...

PantyRaider...Please tell Me "It's a Joke"!!!/_

2:12 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

Hey Take,

Are you going to take DHB with your first pick in The Long Bombs League?

2:14 PM  
Blogger AvantGrape said...

God help us if the Niners take Crabtree. We'll never live that down.

2:16 PM  
Anonymous BlackBagonia said...

Disappointment Haiku:

Heyward-Bey at sev,
Crabtree, OT, DT, ney.
WTF is that???

2:17 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I would have said there is no way the Raiders could not improve their team with the #7 pick. This became more evident as the first 6 picks were made. Now, I'm scratching my head.

2:18 PM  
Blogger AvantGrape said...

The Raiders essentially have no one who is an above-average route-runner at the WR receiver position. How can you run a zone-blocking, WCO with this crap?

2:18 PM  
Blogger Toni said...

Who? I know I haven't followed college ball much, but who??? I know Mack would have been a stretch at 7, but good god, the fastest wideout in the draft?

Really?

Hasn't Davis learned anything?I mean it will be fabulous to see DHB flying down the field, but unfortunately JRuss is going to be on his ass picking grass out of his face guard.

Oh well. When the rumors started about Crabtree I felt for sure the Raiders would stay clear and draft a linesmen, either offensive or defense.

Fuck me, my fault for starting to believe in the turn around so many folks seemed to think was right around the corner.

2:18 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Well...I hate to be right when it hurts the team...

"QB"-"OT"-"OLB"-"DE" were all off the board at #7 and NOT going to get picked by Al "Take the Speed" Davis...

The position was correct but the player...NO FUCKING WAY....

PantyRaider....Ceniale!!!/_

2:18 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

Well, what did you expect? Does AD still have it? What more proof do you need? Watch the big 3 go real quiet....shhhhhh, you might wake up AD. Is it time? Do you feel the need for change? How can the Raiders win with this leadership? Another slap in the face from AD, will all the enablers FINALLY admit to themselves that Raiders have a wacky Admiral leading the ship?

JONES

2:20 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Time will prove the 49ers just made the Raiders look like fools!

2:22 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

Nancy Gay must be as happy as a hog in slop right now. The 49ers just took Crabtree.

2:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So I guess a whole gallon of gas has been thrown onto the 49er Vs. Raiders fire.

It's sad because I think we will lose this one badly.

And there is only one person on earth who doesn't see this...

Psycho (No not him)

2:25 PM  
Blogger TheFreakingPope said...

Here's my take.

Al Davis has already stated that he wants Bush & McFadden on the field at the same time. You throw Miller, Walker, and Higgins into the mix, and suddenly having someone tear down the field might not result in catches, but it will pull defenders. If it doesn't, it's a wide open pass.

Not my favorite pick, but I won't write it off just yet.

2:27 PM  
Blogger AvantGrape said...

More proof to me that Cable is just another Al jocker for a coach. Art Shell Part III.

2:27 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Well, the pick guarantees one thing: no one had a chance to win the Stick'Em Pick'Em draft challenge, because no one saw that coming.

It's worth noting that Sam Farmer of the LA Times had the Raiders picking Bey, citing Mr. Davis's fascination with speed.

2:27 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

I don't think being disappointed in the pick means that you think Bey is going to be a total bust. It just means you think it wasn't the best pick at that point in the draft.

2:29 PM  
Blogger AvantGrape said...

FreakingPope, that kind of logic just doesn't apply. Skill, not speed is what counts in this league. Always has and always will.

For the record, Crabtree is hardly slow, but his skill set and strength are without question. No doubt in my mind he was the top receiver in the draft, and the fact that Al has made it so I have to watch the other team across the bay make fools of us riles me to no end.

2:29 PM  
Blogger Toni said...

DHB:

Analysis: A major reach here as the Raiders take the fastest wideout in the draft. Heyward-Bey is an explosive vertical threat; however, he is very raw as a route-runner, lacks great hands and might end up being one of the worst values in the 2009 draft.

Crabtree:

Crabtree's stock has fallen in recent days because of character concerns. However, he is one of the draft's true "elite" prospects and gives the 49ers the type of No. 1-caliber wideout they need. He should instantly upgrade the San Francisco receiving core.

Sorry for my swearing in my earlier post, blame disappointment.

:)

Anyway, I guess time will tell which team made the right pick. Unfortunately I have a feeling I know who did.

2:33 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Well....Micheal "Diva" Crab now goes to SadFran....OK....At least he does not hurt us in the AFCW so I guess that's a small (+)...Think how bad we would feel if he went to the "Donko"s....

We would be better off to have gotten "TO" with the #7 pick....

OK-OK-OK!!!...Get over....This is how our team now looks...

"QB"...."JRus"-Garcia
"RB"...."McFab"-Bush
"TE"....Miller
"WR"....Walker-Higgins-n-Just "Cry" Bey...

No doubt were now the fastest team in the NFL...Maybe we can enter the Olympics...I sure hope we have a great teacher at "RB"s Coach....We sure need one now to get this guy up to speed....(Pun)

Well...Now is there any chance we trade for Boldin...Certainly there must be something that bails us out of the hole we have dug...Get "DogMan" Vick..."GunShot" Plaxico...

PantyRaider....4:30am Time to Get DRUNK!!!!/_

2:35 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Davis must have been the only one on the planet that had Bey as a top ten pick.

Obviously, I hope he's our guy, but does he improve us at WR?

2:36 PM  
Blogger TheFreakingPope said...

Avant,

I didn't say speed would be enough long term. In the near term, his speed alone may help.

It's up to coach Lal to make this kid into something.

I like Crabtree, but I will say that he has shown his ass a bit this last few weeks. I for one am tired of that sort of sh*t out of our receivers.

2:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

THEORY:
Al Davis for 6 years now has owned massive Qty of stocks in Jack Daniels, Anheiser Bush, and Miller Brewing Co. He is literally making us drink ourselves retarded for his own profits.

Psycho

2:40 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

Maybe Crabtree will be the next Mike Williams. One of the greatest WRs to play the college game but a total bust in the NFL. That's about the only saving grace I see right now. Maybe we'll put the speed set out there against SD on opening night. DHB and Higgins at wideout. Mcfadden at slot. Zack Miller at TE. Jamarcus at QB with Bush the solo back. I'll try that out on Madden 2010.

2:42 PM  
Anonymous ButteryPat said...

You guys are acting like a bunch of fucking babies. I think you'd have to be a shitty coach not to think you can train somebody to run routes better. Darrius Heyward-Bey was the most impressive physical specimen at wide receiver this year. I'll remember this bullshit when this pick pans out. Why football fans hate taking risks so much is beyond me. Don't just listen to what Mel Kiper tells you. Fucking think for yourselves. And don't even act like you're not. All I'm hearing is the exact same shit I just heard all those draft bozos go on about.

As for "reaching", who really gives a shit? You like a player, draft him. And hey, I'm sorry for the litany of swearing too, but I'm also disappointed...in Raider fans.

2:43 PM  
Blogger AvantGrape said...

Yeah, but check out the film on HB. He's fast, but his hands and route running ability are extremely suspect. I just don't get this one, even for Al. I have my doubts that this kid would have even been drafted in the first round if not for Al. Just an insane pick that will not make the Raiders better in any way.

Yeah, I hope I'm wrong, but there's just no way I can see this kid instantly being able to run routes against elite NFL secondaries. Crabtree's combination of speed, hands, power and route running trumps this pick in every way. And I have to watch that on the Niners!?!?! Just pour gasoline on me already and get it over with.

2:43 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

Texans on the clock now. Imagine if SD takes Maualuga at 14. Ugh.

2:44 PM  
Anonymous BlackBagonia said...

I don't watch film on these guys, and admittedly base my opinion largely on what I hear in the media. That said, DHB likely could have been had in the bottom of the first round. Obviously, there was something the Raiders didn't like in Crabtree - how fast is he really? He was running like 3 or 4 total routes in college, is this going to translate - especially without the speed to back it up? (maybe, or probably, but I honestly have no idea)...

Anyway, would have preferred to see us trade down to take this pick, but no one other than the Jets seemed to have any intention of trading up this year with the concensus best portion of the draft coming in the middle to late first round.

Further, we don't really know what agreement the Raiders may be able to come to with DHB. If it's mid round money at a high round pick after no one was willing to trade, maybe it's not that bad.

As the pope says, I hope at a minimum that this guy can spread the opposing defense. Really hope he can also catch the football.

Nnamdi was also a stretch. It took him four years to pan out and now he is arguably the best CB in the league.

Can't help but be a little (maybe a lot) disappointed looking at the talent available, but looking forward to see what this kid might be able to do.

Welcome aboard DHB... You're a Raider now. Please don't be James Jett.......

2:45 PM  
Blogger AvantGrape said...

Pat, I don't listen to anyone. I've watched both receivers play numerous times. This is a no-brainer. No question who the better receiver is, and it's not even close.

2:45 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

FreakingPope...

ThankYou....

Needed to hear a positive take....

Yes...he has speed and can play the "Decoy" position...Does NOT need to learn to run routs...Only needs to know how to run the "Fly" pattern....Straight down field and drag as many defenders as possible away from the designed play....

Thus "McFab" is now open underneath coming out of the backfield...Bush has room to run because the "D"s can't crowd the box to stop our running game...Walker will get 2-3 catches this year as the "D" totally ignores him...Higgins will run to the opposite side of the field and be thrown to occasionally...Miller will again be our #1 receiver with 50+ receptions....

PantyRaider....Play Ball!!!/_

2:47 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

Whew.

2:52 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

ButteryPat....

Point well taken...But that's a normal reaction when "Shit" slaps ya across the face...

Now it's time to deal with it so I'm turning to the next page...Try to have a sense of humor and find a positive...The fact is we won't know anything until the pre-season and we get to see the kid play....

As I said....I hope the hell I'm totally wrong...I will love it if I'm wrong and SadFran got the next "MW"-NO-Moss type....Bu I'm afraid that's not the way it will play out....

PantyRaider....Stay Positive Bro!!!/_

2:54 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Do you want to know what is really sad about the DHB pick at #7?

Because he was taken so high by Davis, it means that to justify this pick, DHB will play more than he has earned or even if he isn't ready.

Really now, what is the difference between DHB and JLH?

The difference is JLH has 2 years of experience, better hands, a smaller contract and at worst maybe .1 of a second slower. DHB = 4.3 / JLH = 4.4.

This lack of common sense by Davis is driving me insane.

If the goal was to find a WR who can stretch the field, just stick JLH on the field and draft Monroe to protect Russell. Good god. It is a sad day when an arm chair fan like myself feels like a genius in comparison to a HOF guy like Davis.

2:56 PM  
Blogger x said...

I am so disappointed in the DHB pick, I can't say. Just horrible!

A sign that things truly haven't changed in Oakland. Speed over football skills and production.

How do you pick a guy that was shut out two games in a row in college against mediocre teams? A guy you could have picked up later?

How do you pass up Crabtree and Maclin?

My hopes for next season are now really tempered. Damn, this just pisses me off!

2:56 PM  
Anonymous BlackBagonia said...

Let us not forget Heyward-Bey was on a pretty shitty team in college. You can't really compare to Crabtree and the Red Raiders.

I'm all for taking chances, but can't help but admit this one was shocking... Not like Jano, who had real potential to be THE BEST EVER.

anyway, 4 or 5 weeks ago DHB was less of a stretch. The sports media has a tendency to change prospects ranking exponentially only based on what the media is saying. If Davis and the Raiders don't listen to Kiper, perhaps they are better off. He seems pissed about having competition on "his" network anyway. Talk about a diva.

2:57 PM  
Anonymous BlackBagonia said...

Kiper that is....

2:58 PM  
Blogger TheFreakingPope said...

Another point on Crabtree.

There have been rumors he wasn't keen on coming to Oakland. If you look at Cable's comments this off season, he wants players to love the Raiders he does...the way we do. It's about the team, not individual stats or fame.

Hell, I can almost see him calling the kid, with that O Line candor, "Do you f*cking want this job, or not? If not, I don't want you and sure as f*ck won't pick you".

J

3:00 PM  
Anonymous BlackBagonia said...

Hey AvantGrape -

Where is the "film" you're checking. I'd love to have access. Cause all I seem to find is highlights on YouTube...

maybe you can kick a link to some "real film"....

3:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'll be double-pissed if we don't start trying to trade up for Oher or Mack. Unless we think a Center will slip. Oher seems to be slipping pretty far and Al can get some respect back if he gets us a goddamn LT who doesn't suck.

Psycho

3:02 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Sorry Pat but you lost all credibility with your last post. Being a Raider fan does not mean losing all sense of objectivity.

You obviously know next to nothing about the value of picks. To take a guy who is rated a late 1st round pick at #7 is complete idiocy ... even if you love the guy, you trade down to get him.

As I mentioned earlier, JLH is virtually a carbon copy of DHB.
Why waste your only 1st round pick on a guy was not productive in college? Why waste your only 1st round pick on a guy who is known as having bad hands?

Sorry Pat but you put down the kool aid and use some common sense.

Of course ALL Raider fans having nothing against DHB. Of course we want him to succeed. Of course we will support him. This doesn't mean we can't give our opinions about the draft or direction of the team. It is called realistic objectivity not myopia.

3:05 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

BlackBagonia...

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f88190

This is the "Vid" from NFL.com....Looks good but I don't know why we pick him this high...

3:06 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

When AD fires Cable, he will say " I had to fire him, after that pick he chose at WR, that Bey guy, I knew he wasn't the guy, that I wanted to run my team".

Fans, when will you learn that AD is crazy? Every year, you fans think the Raiders are going to be run like a pro team......then AD does it again and you blame everyone else and believe the BS that comes from Alameda. How much will it take for mutiny?

Already have some going straight to denial mode. It was a poor pick, it is up to AD to know where the guy will go in the draft. If he can be had later, TRADE DOWN, GET MORE PICKS AND/or PLAYERS. A waste of an asset, but, let's look at the positives * crickets *.

You know what is worse than an owner who makes all decisions and screws them up?........A fan that will just eat and tell those who oppose it to shut up and trust him.

3:07 PM  
Anonymous ButteryPat said...

AvantGrape, I was mostly referring to the fellow whose "analysis" of the pick was almost word-for-word what I just got done reading on NFL.com, so it wasn't really to you precisely. Anyway, I've already calmed down, so no more grouchiness or accusations from me today. :) But let's talk more about this pick.

Heyward-Bey isn't just fast, he's big and fast. And isn't that what you really want? I don't think Michael Crabtree has the upside Heyward-Bey has, and Maclin is both shorter and slower. Make no mistake, this is definitely about as risky a pick as it gets, not just in and of itself, but also in that it included passing over somebody who a lot of folks think will be an impact player. I respect that position. But don't write this pick off yet. I'm really quite confident it will pan out. I especially like Heyward-Bey's experience in the backfield. He's almost like a bigger, badder, faster version of Percy Harvin, somebody who I watched and loved as a longtime Gators fan.

I just think that raw talent should be the most important factor in the draft. You can teach a player to have almost every one of the skills Michael Crabtree has, if you're good enough. But you can't teach being 6'2", 212 and running a 4.30 40.

Do you honestly believe that Michael Crabtree is going to be the one player who seamlessly adjusts to the NFL? The learning curve isn't unique to Heyward-Bey. Michael Crabtree may be the superior route runner now at least, but he'll have to learn how to play pro ball just like everybody else.

By the way, it's funny how around here Michael Crabtree garnered "meh" responses when it looked like the Raiders were taking him, and somewhere between the 7th and 10th picks he suddenly morphed into UNDENIABLY THE GREATEST FOOTBALL PLAYER WHO EVER LIVED!!!!

3:09 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

blackbegoina,
there's a difference between nnamdi being picked very late in the 1st round and bey picked at #7 overall. bey is getting #7 money and is expected to produce like RIGHT NOW! defenses know he won't be a threat so they'll ignore him. is that what we get for a #7 overall pick? there is no agreement for mid-round money. this guy's gonna get no. 7 money. he's gonna cash in. with regards to nnamdi, no one was expecting that pick to be any good so that was good value because he's producing now. yes it took 4 years but it worked out and it didn't cost much initially. IF the bey pick pans out in 3 or 4 years that still won't be good value because we will have lost 3 or 4 years of production from a high draft choice. so the way i see it, it's like we didn't have a 1st round pick because it was wasted.

3:10 PM  
Anonymous BlackBagonia said...

Panty -

thanks for the link... based on that, I'm sold.... for real...

"similar skills to Crabtree"

"fluidity - good hands"

as fast as Tenessee's Chris Johnson...

This kid is going to be awesome.

3:13 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Bey had three games last year with five or more receptions.

He had one game of more than five receptions. That game, against Wake Forest, was the only time he racked up 100+ yards (101).

He had two games with zero receptions.

He scored five touchdowns total on a team that went 7-5.

Those are the facts, view them as you'd like.

3:23 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

you want smart AL? lok what the browns have done per espn - they started with 5 picks and now they have 10.

and they just picked up mack frm Cal.

3:25 PM  
Anonymous BlackBagonia said...

Scorpio -
no wideout is realistically expected to produce NOW. It just doesn't happen. Even Calvin Johnson had problems his first year.

Regarding the Browns. Absolutely agree. They played this thing smart. If the Raiders had the chance to do that, we don't know. But I would love to believe they tried...

3:34 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

BlackBagonia....

The 3rd "WR" fell all the way to #19....Does that speak very loud about his talent...The "Crab" fell to #10....That means 8 other teams besides the Raiders passed on him and did not consider him worth their pick....Does that speak loud about his possible problems in the transition to the NFL....

My comments about the "Crab" were that he is the best "WR" as far as talent and experience and production but he gets drug down from behind...

Now put that in proper perspective...He played against weak talent and in the big games he was shut down and only gained short yardage on 5-8 passes...If he gets caught from behind in college how will he play in the pros where there is alot more speed in the "DB"s....How will he get separation...So those must be the questions the Raiders and other teams asked...Now I'm speculating but there is a reason for him falling....

Darrius Heyward-Bey was moving up the board late...Not to the top of the 1st rd but never the less he was moving up...So the Raiders wanted him and felt he would not be there later...The Raiders NEVER trade down in the 1st rd...Just as in the case of taking "Jano" too high...Nnamdi too high...

So that's the reality of our team so now we get to learn again how to deal with it...Get past the initial shock and go on with supporting our team....

I appreciate seeing the positive notes even in an adverse situation...OK...I get worked up like anyone else...But in the end I'm a Raider and "Hopelessly Devoted"....And supportive....

PantyRaider....NO JO-JO JONES!!!!/_

3:36 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

OK...

Here is something basically positive about our pick...And there seemed to be other reaches in the 1st rd this season so who the hell knows...


Overview
By far the fastest player in school history, Heyward-Bey set the Terps record with a 4.23 clocking in the 40-yard dash during 2006 preseason drills. Always known for his blazing speed, he added a new wrinkle to his game the last two seasons, proving to be a dangerous threat on the reverse or when operating out of the backfield as a slot back.



Even though Maryland struggled at the quarterback position and failed to find another big-play receiver to prevent Heyward-Bey from receiving the constant double coverage he experienced throughout his career, he left his mark in the school record books in only three seasons. Even though he never returned a kick or punt, his 2,403 all-purpose yards rank 17th in school annals.



Heyward-Bey's 138 receptions rank third on Maryland's career record chart. His 2,089 yards receiving placed him second in school annals. He also tied for third on the all-time list with 13 touchdown grabs and is tied for sixth with four 100-yard receiving games. The team's third-leading rusher as a junior, he would amass 314 yards with a pair of scores on 25 carries, averaging 12.56 yards per rushing attempt and 14.74 yards on the 163 times he touched the ball. Proving to be the team's money receiver, he generated 228 receiving yards in three bowl appearances.


PantyRaider...Analyze What We Have...NOT What We Missed!!!/_

3:44 PM  
Anonymous ButteryPat said...

"Sorry Pat but you lost all credibility with your last post. Being a Raider fan does not mean losing all sense of objectivity."

Bite me. What is objective about any of this? Do you realize that none of these players have played in the NFL? That every single one of them has the potential to be a colossal failure? How many receivers were taken before Jerry Rice? I bet he would've been quite the "reach" at number 7, too. When people like you try to instantly assess the value of a drafted player, that's not objectivity at all. It's bullshit.


"You obviously know next to nothing about the value of picks. To take a guy who is rated a late 1st round pick at #7 is complete idiocy ... even if you love the guy, you trade down to get him."

What the hell does it matter what he's "rated"? If he's good enough, he's good enough. Why are you suddenly forgetting that players aren't always valued at what the sports media thinks they are? Besides which, do you think there's at least a slim possibility that somebody else would've grabbed the most physically impressive wide receiver in this draft? And anyway, who would we have traded back with? Obviously the only team who wanted in the top 10 was the Jets, and they got theirs from Cleveland.


"As I mentioned earlier, JLH is virtually a carbon copy of DHB.
Why waste your only 1st round pick on a guy was not productive in college? Why waste your only 1st round pick on a guy who is known as having bad hands?"

That's a ridiculous point. Watch some football, and don't just look at the stat line. Higgins isn't as big, isn't as fast, doesn't have the college pedigree, and besides which, he was our most productive wideout last year, so I don't even know why the hell you would think that's a bad thing. And again, if you really think your coaching staff is worth a shit, you should think you can make a guy catch the ball better.



"Sorry Pat but you put down the kool aid and use some common sense."

Bite me even more. Your version of common sense tells you that Tony Mandarich is a number one pick. You're sitting here acting like everything pans out exactly like Mel fucking Kiper says it does. I say the pick is risky, but the player has a lot of upside and is physically the most impressive in the draft. You say that we can objectively prove the player's worth who has never played a down in the NFL. I'm sorry but I'm pissed again. What a self-righteous asshole you're being.

"Of course ALL Raider fans having nothing against DHB. Of course we want him to succeed. Of course we will support him. This doesn't mean we can't give our opinions about the draft or direction of the team. It is called realistic objectivity not myopia."

Of course, like anybody without an argument you've resorted to insinuating that I'm trying to stamp out your independent thought. Telling you you're acting like a fucking baby is not at all telling you that you can't express your opinion. The same goes to the JONES douchebag that insinuated I told anybody to shut up. I didn't. This is a place to talk football, and that's what we're all doing. So I don't have any complaints about that, nor am I questioning anybody's standing as a fan of the Raiders. I think you're all being ridiculous. That doesn't mean that you can't express your ridiculous thought. And here you go again, misusing the word "objectivity". Writing a player off before he's played a down is about as far from objective as you can reasonably be.

3:49 PM  
Anonymous BlackBagonia said...

Panty -
Thanks for the positivity.

-BB

P.S. DHB has to be better than that fool the Vikings drafted to replace Moss...

3:52 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

panty,
but with suspect hands and route running, he's still a project. not what we want from a #7 pick! because of his salary we want immediate production from that spot. if the pick was crabtree or any of the OL's, raji or curry that's what we could have had. now we all have to wait 3 or 4 years until this guy pans out IF he pans out at all!

3:53 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

The question is...

If Darrius Heyward-Bey played at a different school with better talent around him what would his production have been...The other guys who we rank higher also had much better teams and talent supporting their "WR"....Like a "QB" who could get them the ball and a second "WR" to take the heat off...

He comes into a very good situation with the Raiders....His supporting cast is young and extremely talented and have tremendous speed...He won't be able to out run the "QB"s range...He wont get the double team because there are too many weapons and too much speed...

"Stretch "O" now lives in "OakTown" -w- a tremendous threat coming out of the back-field as well -n- at "TE"...What will we look like....

Now at #27...#40 is fast approaching....Who is on the board...

PantyRaider...Sincerely Hoping I Was Wrong!!!/_

3:57 PM  
Anonymous BlackBagonia said...

ButteryPat,

nice buttery takes right up to the point you said -

"I think you're all being ridiculous."

To that I will quote a famous RT board member and say -

"bite me"

;-)

3:57 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

Hey Buttercup:

Need a tissue? You sound like a chick.

Here is the issue , you dope.

WASTED ASSET : this guy could have been taken later in the draft. .....SOOOOOO, if this " is the guy" , then get more picks or players for that pick, UNDERSTAND.


Nobody knows how he will turn out, could be a great pick. But as of today, we could have gotten more from that pick. Could have picked up a vet or more picks, how much more clear can that be to you?

4:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So 2 of the 3 Centers are gone. So is Oher.

WTF Al?

Psycho

4:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

100 yep.

Psycho

4:07 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Jo-JO...

Obviously has NO knowledge of the Raiders Draft History...

Set The Record Straight...."Quote"...

THE OAKLAND RAIDERS NEVER AND I REPEAT NEVER HAVE AND WILL NOT TRADE DOWN IN THE 1st RD....

So any discussion to the contrary is just total "Bull Shit"...NOthing gets more rediculas than that....

"Get Back JO-JO"...."Get Back To Where You Once Belonged"....

PantyRaider...Positive Outlook -w- Despair!!!/_

4:09 PM  
Anonymous ButteryPat said...

ButteryPat,

nice buttery takes right up to the point you said -

"I think you're all being ridiculous."

To that I will quote a famous RT board member and say -

"bite me"

;-)

3:57 PM

Word? I didn't mean you, I hope you know. ;)

4:10 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Well...What do you think about the "Midgets"...They won a "SB" lately...Did they not...

Now it appears that "DHB" was their man but now they settle for Nicks at "WR"...So why were they so high on our new "WR" to replace Plaxico...To replace their #1 "WR"...What were they looking at...

I know...I know he was a reach at the #7 pick...So the hell with the draft valuation "Crap"....The only thing that matters now is what we have on board...(+) or (-)....

PantyRaider....#40 Who!!!!/_

4:18 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

6 "WR"s have now fallen in the 1st 30...We will have plenty to evaluate our pick by as the season plays out....

PantyRaider...Future Looks!!!/_

4:22 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Just another point as stated prior to the draft...

The "Cable Guy" said he was looking for Positive players...The lunch-pail types who are the Value of the draft...The Sleepers who get over looked...So did we take one with the #7 pick...Did we get to see something in this guy that several others failed to see...

"AZ" takes the "RB" so the thought of trading Fargas to them is now NOT likely...They did NOT draft to replace Boldin...They will now NOT get a 1st rd pick in this years draft for Boldin...Will they take a pick next year for him...Do they want Walters...

We now enter the 2nd rd....Who is on the board at #40....

PantyRaider....What Do We Have!!!/_

4:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

WOW just woke up--in Korea and don't have the stamina of Panty--and I have to say that this sucks! As I a few weeks ago everything has been going so different that I was beginning to get sucked in, but I couldn't shake that feeling of Charlie Brown racing to kick the ball...Well fucking Al pulled it away again.

Roy

4:36 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

mauluga is still there. maybe we can at least do something about our sorry ass run defense and make this draft at least sound productive. laurinitis just got picked by st. louis

4:40 PM  
Anonymous ButteryPat said...

"Q: Was there a time when you thought you might have to trade up to get him?

Cable: There was. There was some time the last two days; in particular, last night it got a little bit nervous because there was some teams that tried to move ahead to get him. So, you really start worrying about all that."

God I love being vindicated. So there we go, "trade-backers". There was quite a bit of interest in him after all, just like I said.

4:42 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

1st rd....

"O"-19

"WR"-6
"OT"-4
"RB"-3
"QB"-3
"C"-2
"TE"-1

"D"-13

"DE"-4
"DT"-3
"OLB"-3
"CB"-2
"ILB"-1

4:43 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

scorpio..

I'm with ya...USC "LB" at #40...

4:46 PM  
Anonymous ButteryPat said...

I can't believe Mauluaga might be available. Man I'm stoked.

4:47 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

The "Donkos" just traded up...For the "LB" NO Doubt...

4:48 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

NO..."Donko"s take "CB"...

Come-On "LB"....Keep falling...

4:52 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

panty, they just got a CB so we still have a chance

4:53 PM  
Blogger Roy said...

Come on Mauluaga...

Roy

4:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

C'mon #40 now THAT would be value!

Psycho

4:54 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Tell me why...
The "Donko" Mule-Heads just traded away next years #1 to move up and get an under-sized "CB" in the 2nd rd...Why...Was he about to be taken by the Raiders...Now that's a freakin "Head Scratcher"...

Come-On "ILB"...

4:55 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

CRAP! mauluga just got picked! damn.

4:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

damn...

Roy

4:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bastard CIN sons of...

OK to Center Unger or CB Butler (value pick)?

Psycho

4:59 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

seems espn's draft tracker is a few seconds faster than the announcements on tv

4:59 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Now who is on the board...


#40 Who....Trade it for Boldin???

5:00 PM  
Anonymous ButteryPat said...

Dammit. I had a feeling the Bengals'd do it. So who now?

5:00 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Well...At least when we play the "Donko"s a 5'9" "CB" who runs a 4.5 will be trying to cover our new "WR" going deep....Guess he will have to start 20yds deep...


Raiders on the clock....#40 who...

5:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

They ALWAYS have to have freakin' commercials every time we pick. Seems like every year. Now we got it in both rounds so far.

Psycho

5:06 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Trade down to "NE"...

5:06 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

they just traded the pick to the gaytriots?????

5:06 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

that's it? we don't have any pick in the 2nd?

5:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

so what was the trade?

Roy

5:08 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

How far down did we trade...

41-47-58...

5:09 PM  
Anonymous ButteryPat said...

Does anybody know what we got for that trade yet? More picks? Players?

5:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Down 7 eh? OK so why the hell didn't we do the same thing in the FIRST ROUND?

Psycho

5:10 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Nothing posted at Raiders.com

Where do we pick...

5:11 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

down to 47 and we gst a couple more picks in the later rounds

5:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry, we moved down 7 spots for a 4th and a sixth.

Psycho

5:12 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Raiders pick at #47

5:13 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

24 (124) Raiders (From Patriots)

26 (199) Raiders (From Patriots)

5:16 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

So...Our player was off the board and we traded down...Was our player the USC "ILB"...This what we now haqve as picks...

15 (47) Raiders (From Chargers through Patriots)

7 (71) Raiders

24 (124) Raiders (From Patriots)

26 (126) Raiders (From Dolphins)

26 (199) Raiders (From Patriots)

26 (199) Raiders (From Patriots)

5:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have a hunger for Unger.

Psycho

5:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We traded with the Donkos!!!!

Psycho

5:34 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

here we go - we're on the clock

5:34 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Well...The "Midgets" just took the guy I was projecting as a good pick by the Raiders...

Clint Sintim (OLB)

#40 Who....

Raiders on the clock...

5:35 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

mike mitchell

5:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh sorry, once again NFL Network has tricked me. We drafted Safety Mike Mitchell from Ohio.

Psycho

5:37 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

we needed this guy but i didn't think he would be picked until the later rounds, maybe the 3rd? oh well, at least we addressed a need

5:38 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

So there it is...We were looking for the "DB"...

So who the heel is the guy....There are no stats posted...No size no nothing...Another Reach???

5:39 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

A columnist on the Bleacher Report predicted Mitchell to the Raiders, saying yesterday:

Michael went on to explain that since that day he wanted to play the safety position as Jack Tatum played the position with the Oakland Raiders.

From watching this young man play I can say he would make Jack Tatum proud.

5:40 PM  
Blogger wtdavid said...

Well, I think they just took the fastest DB in the draft. You've got to be kidding me.

5:40 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Link to Mitchell highlights:

http://tinyurl.com/d9jgg2

5:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

walterfootball.com (who I've used for years) had Mitchell going in the 7th or becoming a Rookie FA. He's their 22nd ranked SAFETY and didn't even have comments posted on pros/cons.

But he ran a fast 40 time.... Mike Mayock said he never heard of him until he ran a fast 40 at the combine....... Good job Al.

Psycho

5:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

WOW...Ladies and Gentlemen your 2009 Oakland Raiders!

Roy

5:44 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

OK...Here is a "Vid" of our 2nd rd pick at "S"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8KF2-_OXoA

5:47 PM  
Blogger x said...

Mitchell?

This is absolutely mind boggling.

This guy is on no one's charts and it's hard to find any info on him....he was expected to be a rookie free agent...but he ran a fast 40 time and his hero is Jack Tatum....perfect...so that makes him a 2nd round draft pick of the Raiders.

cookoo...cookoo...

And who really believes that tripe about the Raiders worrying they'd have to move UP to get DHB? That's hilarious.

5:48 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

"Once considered an undrafted free agent by NFL scouts, Mitchell's draft stock is on the rise and now has a legitimate shot of hearing his name called on Day 2 of the draft..."

Uh...Make that Round 2, not Day 2. I like the way the guy plays football. But remember, this is Ohio University, not Ohio State. His hits are coming against Kent State and Bowling Green.

Why not grab the guy later?

Why are we REACHING like this?

5:53 PM  
Blogger RaiderCat said...

"Cable: There was. There was some time the last two days; in particular, last night it got a little bit nervous because there was some teams that tried to move ahead to get him. So, you really start worrying about all that." ~ButteryPat

Where did you find this quote, 'Pat? One of the things I remember reading (somewhere) was Cable saying that no matter where your guy is, if you really like him, you pull the trigger. Well... BANG!!!"Michael went on to explain that since that day he wanted to play the safety position as Jack Tatum played the position with the Oakland Raiders.

From watching this young man play I can say he would make Jack Tatum proud"
~'Take

This is encouraging.

~'Cat

5:57 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Just to clarify, that "proud" quote came from the Bleacher Report, not me. I hope they're right. But it looks like he could have made us proud in the third or fourth round.

6:01 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

Dear punty

"THE OAKLAND RAIDERS NEVER AND I REPEAT NEVER HAVE AND WILL NOT TRADE DOWN IN THE 1st RD...."

You write with such pride that AD won't trade down in the 1st rnd.

Oh isn't that smart, don't trade down and pick a 2nd rounder because someone else might pick him in the 2nd. Do you understand logic? or are you just a dope with pomp pomps? Maybe you and AD should think about that one.

6:01 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"RT"....

I don't know...Ka-No...

He looks very fast on film and every other player looks slow...He is strong against the run and deep "S" blitz...He's a Ball Hawk and Sack happy "S"...

So as said...We were looking at lunch-box players with unknown talent....NOT on the radar...Do a damn good job of it....

At Raiders.com they have posted info about the "WR"...Only the name is up for the "S"....Maybe they can't get the film away from Al....Oh! NO!...He drooled all over it....

PantyRaider...Sense-o-Humor....Got One!!!/_

Definitely time to get drunk...But look at the bright side....We moved down and have more opportunities to "Reach"....

6:04 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Sure, Mitchell looks solid in the highlights. But we likely could have gotten him later. Why are we reaching like this?

6:11 PM  
Blogger RaiderCat said...

"He looks very fast on film and every other player looks slow...He is strong against the run and deep 'S' blitz...He's a Ball Hawk and Sack happy 'S'" ~PantyRaider

You're right, Panty. His closing speed is outrageous! I can't wait to see these picks to pan out... (he says, with fingers crossed...)

~'Cat

6:12 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"RT"....

Take a closer look at my posts...You are failing to see all the tears...I can't find a real positive here so while crying in my beer I am making with the humor to appease the pain...

And then there was "JO-JO"...Brain-Dead Im-Poster....

PantyRaider....#71 How Far Can We Reach!!!/_

6:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm a 6'0" 160 lb weakling with no football exp.

But I think I'll still enter next years draft. All I have to do is say I want to play the DE position like Howie Long and Al will draft me in the 2nd round. Sweet deal.

Oh wait, I'd probably run the 40 in 6 seconds flat so I guess I'm not an Al Davis guy. Damn.

Psycho

6:13 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"CJ"....

How many Singhas are necessary to get freakin drunk...

PantyRaider...Cheap Thai Intoxication!!!/_

6:16 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Psycho....

I'm a 5'10" 190 lb "Buffed" Hard-Body @ "58" who still has some speed and experience at "CB"-n-"HB"...But I think I will skip next years draft...Need to conserve the energy for my 17 year old wife...

She sleeps while I drink myself into a stupor...8:20am...

PantyRaider...#71 13 picks away!!!/_

6:23 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Oh! Great!....

Now Mel Creeper is going to talk about 1st rd reaches...Do you suppose we will be center stage in that speech....

Thanks BSPN for the audio but please shut the fuck up....

6:27 PM  
Anonymous ButteryPat said...

"And who really believes that tripe about the Raiders worrying they'd have to move UP to get DHB? That's hilarious."

Yep, that's the Raider Nation for you. Believing in some ridiculous conspiracy theory where Tom Cable lies about his concerns? Common sense. Believing what is right in front of your face? KOOKY!

Just like how our common sense tells us that Al Davis autonomously made this pick over Tom Cable's loud objections, even though he said this was his pick from the beginning. That bit about "the one player who can improve everybody" that he said in a cloaked reference to Heyward-Bey? Well, that was just another part of the conspiracy to conceal that it was all Al's pick! You know, because he knew from the beginning it's a bad pick and just made it to lose on purpose because...I don't know. Maybe something about the Protocols Of The Elders Of Zion.

Raidercat, I got that quote from Jerry Mac's blog. The full interview is here: http://www.ibabuzz.com/raidersblog/2009/04/25/cable-on-heyward-bey/#more-4816

I don't know why you'd want to read it, though. As I was just informed, Tom Cable doesn't really believe any of these very nice things he says about Heyward-Bey. What a great liar he is, though. He even manages to pull off a whopper about being impressed with him at his workout, and how his concerns about his hands were alleviated when he caught everything in front of him.

6:31 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Pick Analysis: The Raiders continue to place a premium on speed and athleticism over playing ability. Although Mitchell was lightly regarded in most war rooms, the Raiders nab the workout warrior with their second-round pick.

Overview
Mitchell wasn't invited to the NFL Scouting Combine and wasn't mentioned as a player of note in the Ohio Pro Day report. He says he can play either safety position, though he's listed as a strong safety.


Well...I like the guy already...He loves exercise and loves to hit...Has great speed...Makes a whole heck of alot of money...Gets alot of attention and keeps the Raider front page....I wonder if he will buy the beer...

#71 only 9 picks away....

PantyRaider...Cheap Drunk!!!/_

Sorry...But as bad as it is to say...This must be a "CableMan" Draft...Al never reaches twice like this does he....Tell me I'm dreamin...

6:38 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Excuse Me...

What the fuck in going on now...They say the 3rd rd is tomorrow...Ya mean I traveled 200 kilometers and paid for 2 days in a hotel to watch this fuckin shit on line....

Damn....Get me another fucking beer please....

6:44 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

Look at Punty already blaming Cable for this draft, how freakin hilarious.

Punty, go up to my post on what AD will say at the CABLE GET'S FIRED press conference.

You are one dumb dope, anything you write is just as insane as AD, no wonder you lick his balls. Ever thought your disease is from licking his balls? Who is Blunda posting as tonight, must be buttercup. You 2 can try and make wine from shit, doesn't change reality. Reality, Punty, have you EVER dealt in reality?

6:51 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

The Raiders selected Ohio safety Michael Mitchell (34) in the second round of the 2009 NFL Draft.
Getty Images

The Oakland Raiders executed a trade with the New England Patriots, slid back seven spots and gained a 4th and a 6th round pick and landed hard-hitting defensive back Michael Mithell from Ohio University.
In 2008, he played in 11 of a possible 12 games and logged 62 total tackles (36 solo) three interceptions and five passes defensed. He also forced two fumbles and chalked up a quarterback sack.



WoW....What a bargain in the 2nd rd...I love this guy...Just look at all those stats....OH! Ya....Every play he has made the past 3 years was in his "Vid"....3 year high-lite real....Supper...

Where the hell is my damn beer....

Hallow....Am I the only one still out there....Anyone else still listening...NO...NOT YOU "JO-JO"....I DON'T WANT TO LISTEN TO YOUR CRAP.....

PantyRaider....So It's Over For The Day!!!!/_

6:54 PM  
Blogger x said...

Pat-
It's not so much a conspiracy theory as total cluelessness. I can't wait to hear the details on which teams were hoping to jump ahead to get DHB before the Raider pick. The more likely scenario was that other teams knew the Raiders love speed and numbers over football performance/skills and floated a rumor that they loved DHB and the Raiders bit. Maybe teams, like the 49ers that were hoping Crabtree or Maclin would fall to them.

Catching everything in front of you in a workout vs dropping easy passes and disappearing in real games. hmmmmm....which should you place more weight on?

A #7 should be working out well AND performing/have the numbers to show on the field. Period.

And this BS about him being the "the one player who can improve everybody". That didn't happen with his 7-5 team in college. Why would it happen in the NFL?

Don't get me wrong, I hope he ends up being a star, but he could have been gotten much lower. Same with Mitchell, the safety (much lower).

6:58 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

Poor Punty, no one to read his insane ramblings. Face it Punty, you and your 2 buddies, Blunda and Garby, shot your mouths off again and again you look as dumb as they come. Drown in your beer and think about what a tool you are. I think "your wife,17???" is too mature for you. A person who has lived more than a few years would know you are too much of an idiot to even smell.

7:06 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Cable has now been quoted as saying that they didn't ever consider trading down to get Bey...But they did consider trading up to get him, as they were nervous someone else might get him first.

8:08 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

well, so far, this draft reminds me of many other recent raider drafts.

we will go into next season still with that big gapping hole in the middle of our D-line. so no run stopping.

and once again, it will be an adventure protecting our Qb's blind side.

instead it's another speed Wr and yet another useless safety.

when will this nonsense end ??

8:42 PM  
Anonymous ButteryPat said...

X - I'm talking about the band X and not the brand X, the X-Man Nightcrawler and Colossus:

I wasn't really using those quotes in an attempt at proving the value of Heyward-Bey, what I was doing was attempting to squash this idea that the pick was all Al's and that Cable secretly doesn't like it or something. If you think this is a bad pick, that's just fine.

But the idea that Al Davis autonomously chose Heyward-Bey because he ran a quick 40 is misguided. It's pretty clear that this was Cable's guy. That he was genuinely impressed, that he thinks the stats are misleading, and that his hands are better than advertised. He also was worried about teams trading up. Six wideouts were taken in the first round, so any of those teams were possibilities, particularly the Giants who were said to really really like him. Hakeem Nicks was an consolation pick for them, which is funny because people are trying to argue that Nicks is a better wideout. (Just to be clear, none of this is directed at you, as far as I know. Just a general explanation of my thoughts)

Now that that's out of the way, let's continue arguing the merits of the player himself.

Heyward-Bey played in a pro-style offense, he averaged 15 yards a catch and he did it all in constant double coverage without a decent team. You really believe Maryland going 7-5 is a knock against him? Are we drafting the Maryland Terrapins? Do you agree that sometimes excellent players play for crummy teams and that that can mask their true potential? It doesn't matter at all what his college team's record was. Stick him at Tech and see what he does.

He is the most impressive physical specimen this year at wideout, and since I've repeated that several times without anybody disputing it, I'll assume you're all in agreement with me. So that should mean he has more potential than everybody else, right? Not to mention, he has a great attitude and I'm sure will be grateful to Oakland for sticking their necks out for him. I think the Raiders found the real best wideout prospect in this draft, and that the media and fans were fooled by insignificant numbers.

This draft has gone exactly the way Tom Cable said: emphasis on guys who are maybe off the radar, and character guys. You all pretty much acted like that's what you wanted. Everybody seems to hate these "diva" receivers so much, so we got a guy who's as far from a diva as you can get. Besides his college production, which again, I'm sure will be agreed has nothing to do with his future pro production, there isn't a single knock on this guy. Oh, except that he ran a fast 40, and Al Davis likes guys who run fast 40s, therefore guys who run fast 40s suck, right?

By the way, I felt further vindication today when I saw the level of disappointment in Michael Crabtree's face that the Raiders didn't take him. Remember how everybody pissed and moaned about him "dissing" the Raiders, I said that he didn't and once again was informed that I was crazy and that the only objective way to look at it was that Crabtree hates the Raiders and would never play for us. I felt really bad for him, though, and I had to watch until the Niners took him to feel better again.

10:10 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Scenario...

OK....We have our "WR"...Not a #1 but maybe he will grow into that position with time...

Are we done at the position or will we now add to it with a Vet..."AZ" failed to get even a #2 for Boldin...And now he will know that if a team is willing to trade for him he needs to come off any thoughts of breaking the bank with his contract...Plaxico is still without a team and replaced by the Giants who wanted our guy...

"S"...Did we draft him to team with Huff or to replace him if he is traded...I'm hopping he will team with Huff and give us excellent speed and run stopping in the secondary...Now if only the "DC" can put them in position to make plays...

But if Huff is to be traded for a player like Boldin than so be it...I will welcome the new tandem of "WR"s with excitement...But I suspect we are trying to create a "Shut-Down" secondary and cause the "QB"s to hold the ball a little longer and give the front 7 time to get it done...

2nd Day Picks....5+

3rd rd #7...#71 overall
4th rd #24..#124
4th rd #26..#126
6th rd #26..#199
7th rd #7...#216

Possible trades for Walter -n- Fargas...

In all fairness I have to post a draft grade at this point of C-....It was NOT a D- based purely on speculation that the players have a huge Up-Side and are physically gifted....That is to say a physical gift besides the huge money they are about to get...

Present Situation...

NOT hopeless but NOT very encouraging either...At a point of "Wait-n-See"....

PantyRaider....Past The Initial Shock!!!/_

10:15 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

ButteryPat....

Keep up the positive attitude and don't let anyone rob you of it...In the end we may be the ones who are vindicated along with Al -n- Cable....Or...We go down in a ball-o-fire together with the team...Either way I'm a Raider and will never be caught betraying or standing against our team....

PantyRaider...FUCK WORTHLESS PRICKS LIKE JO-JO!!!!/_

10:25 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

from mike mitchell via jerry mac's q & a: "I’m not gonna sit here and lie to you guys and say I was a huge Oakland Raider fan when I was growing up."

at least he's a raider fan. whether he plays like the two former raiders he was talking about (tatum and lott) is a different story....

10:32 PM  
Anonymous ButteryPat said...

Gotta say, I just read the Mike Mitchell interview and I think I'm in love. Obviously, I'd never heard of him before today, so I'm speaking from a position of ignorance, but this guy looks like a real hit (and a real hitter). Also interesting to hear how he thought the Bears were going to take him until the Raiders swiped him up. I don't know why it's being argued that this draft has been similar to our previous drafts. Every other year we seemed to be taking the biggest name available. This year I think we've done the exact opposite.

Panty, thanks for the kind words. You're the man, man. Hmm, I wonder what our ol' pal H thinks of all this? Hopefully we hear from him soon. Welp, there's still a couple hours of the day left, I think I'm gonna go party. Catch y'all later.

10:36 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Well...

This is a fairly positive article and I enjoyed reading it...Seems to be a very objective and honest post...

Maybe the draft grade will climb on day two....

PantyRaider....Realizing How Much We Don't Know!!!/_

10:37 PM  
Blogger Raider Raza said...

Bey is an excellent fit for the Raiders!!

Bey will stretch the field, get behind defenses, make some leaping catches, and be dangerous with ball..

Russell’s not going to pick a defense apart on a consistent basis..nor do we run a calculated, creative passing offense.. Don’t forget our line is below average in Pass Protection…So, we going to Run it down your throat..if you flinch we going to go deep..TE Miller will probably lead the team in grabs…not Bev..

Reaching 15th in pass offense would be huge accomplishment in 2009..
Run DMC & Bush will lead a top 5 ground attack.

This is Raider football for better or worse…we going to run the ball and when you least expect it we going to take shots deep…We don’t run a complicated offense; never have..exception is Chucky’s years…this is who we are..

Bey is going to be a good fit for Russell

Bey’s college resume isn’t as attractive as crabs, BUT crab had a much better QB..and and offense that featured the pass..

Crab is solid with the exception of elite speed..injury prevented him running…attitude is suspect …won Biletnikof Award 2X..will be productive in NFL,but not like he was at Texas Tech because of better competition..

Bolding doesn’t stretch the field instead is a YAC type receiver…wants insane money…poor attitude..doesn’t fit Russells strengths..nor would be as productive in our offense as he was last year in Wisenhunts & Warners well run, creative clever offense; thus not worth it.

If you look at the bigger picture its not an insane pick..it’s a very sensible calculated pick…

Oakland’s Offense Stars: Run DMC, Bush, Miller, Bev, Russell

Russell and Bey = Aerial Attacks!!!

11:29 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Pat: Here are my thoughts on one of your previous posts.

"Bite me. What is objective about any of this? Do you realize that none of these players have played in the NFL?"

Yes. I fully understand the concept of college players having not played a single down in the NFL. And your point?

"That every single one of them has the potential to be a colossal failure?"

True. But the draft, and the 1st round in particular, is the time to minimize your risk by selecting the most polished, productive, NFL ready player. For example, who has a more reasonable chance to be a bust ... DHB or Eugene Monore?

"How many receivers were taken before Jerry Rice? I bet he would've been quite the "reach" at number 7, too. When people like you try to instantly assess the value of a drafted player, that's not objectivity at all. It's bullshit."

This is a ridiculous comparison. Jerry Rice was one of the most productive WRs in college football. Jerry Rice, bar none, was the most polished route runner with sure hands. Jerry Rice was NOT selected in the Top 10. A better comparison to Jerry Rice would be 2nd round selection Robiskie. Both of these guys were advanced in their football acumen coming out of college.

"What the hell does it matter what he's "rated"? If he's good enough, he's good enough. Why are you suddenly forgetting that players aren't always valued at what the sports media thinks they are? Besides which, do you think there's at least a slim possibility that somebody else would've grabbed the most physically impressive wide receiver in this draft? And anyway, who would we have traded back with? Obviously the only team who wanted in the top 10 was the Jets, and they got theirs from Cleveland."

I'm not saying the Raiders had a willing trading partner. What I am saying is that DHB was a MAJOR reach at #7. You can discount draft experts from all the major media all you want. Is it an accident or misguided when ALL (not some) of these analysts had DHB valued at the bottom of the 1st round? What most of the true draft analysts base their opinions on is game film and productivity. What a guy accomplishes at the combine is meaningless in the grand scheme of things. What the player has done on the actual football field is what counts. 42 receptions in 12 games for the 1st WR taken in the draft? Are you F'N kidding me. Go over the draft history for the past 40 years and please show me 1 single WR taken in the 1st round, let alone the Top 10, who had less than 50 receptions. << crickets >>

"That's a ridiculous point. Watch some football, and don't just look at the stat line. Higgins isn't as big, isn't as fast, doesn't have the college pedigree, and besides which, he was our most productive wideout last year, so I don't even know why the hell you would think that's a bad thing. And again, if you really think your coaching staff is worth a shit, you should think you can make a guy catch the ball better."

JLH is .1 seconds slower than DHB. For all we know, JLH is faster than DHB in terms of football speed instead of speed timed in your underwear. The point being that to be blinded by DHB's stop watch speed is silly. We are drafting football players not track stars. Besides speed, the key areas when evaluating WRs is hands, route running, toughness, and productivity.

"Bite me even more. Your version of common sense tells you that Tony Mandarich is a number one pick. You're sitting here acting like everything pans out exactly like Mel fucking Kiper says it does. I say the pick is risky, but the player has a lot of upside and is physically the most impressive in the draft. You say that we can objectively prove the player's worth who has never played a down in the NFL. I'm sorry but I'm pissed again. What a self-righteous asshole you're being."

Upside, potential, risky are not the words that I want associated with describing our #7 pick. This is fine in the latter stages of the draft when you can take a few chances. For your only 1st round pick you want the words "solid, proven, productive, high value, low risk".

"Of course, like anybody without an argument you've resorted to insinuating that I'm trying to stamp out your independent thought. Telling you you're acting like a fucking baby is not at all telling you that you can't express your opinion. The same goes to the JONES douchebag that insinuated I told anybody to shut up. I didn't. This is a place to talk football, and that's what we're all doing. So I don't have any complaints about that, nor am I questioning anybody's standing as a fan of the Raiders. I think you're all being ridiculous. That doesn't mean that you can't express your ridiculous thought. And here you go again, misusing the word "objectivity". Writing a player off before he's played a down is about as far from objective as you can reasonably be."

I don't have an argument? Get real. My argument is quite simple. For your only 1st round pick you do NOT want to take a player who is considered a project. You want to take a player in the 1st round who has the best possible chance to make an immediate impact from day 1.

I seriously hope I'm wrong about DHB and that the coaching staff fine tunes and polishes him into a productive NFL WR sooner rather than later.

12:33 AM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

I hate to be so down on the 1st day of the draft. DHB was a total shock to go so high. Mike Mitchell was an even bigger shock to go in the 2nd round.

The common denominators for these picks are that both guys had noteworthy combines. Both have blazing speed. Both played at marginal colleges. Both picks were major reaches by any reasonable standard. This standard includes how high they were ranked amongst their positional peers, their evaluations by football analysts, their accomplishments on the field.

By all accounts, DHB was at best the 4th rated WR and a projected #30 pick. Instead he was the 1st WR off the board and selected #7.

By all accounts, Mitchell was a late round pick and not even in the top 25 rated safeties. Instead he was taken in the 2nd round and I believe the 3rd safety taken in the draft.

I certainly hope that both DHB and Mitchell pan out to be solid contributors to our team. It is what you would expect from a 1st and 2nd rounder. The 1st and 2nd round choices are the building blocks to any good NFL team. What scares the shit out of me is that both could be total busts.

12:48 AM  
Anonymous ButteryPat said...

Hregh. Well, I'm completely funking bonkered right now. Made the mistake of checking this site out before bed, a big ol' pile of excrement from Calico Jack awaited me. Well, I'll be up for a while now, so let's sift through this, shall we?

"Yes. I fully understand the concept of college players having not played a single down in the NFL. And your point?"

Apparently you don't. Considering that your "objective" position here is that Heyward-Bey is a bad pick and I must be drinking kool-aid to possibly believe he may have been a better choice than Michael Crabtree because of his attitude and undeniable physical assets. Your only way of refuting this is to tell me, once again, that Michael Crabtree put up better numbers in college than Heyward-Bey.

"True. But the draft, and the 1st round in particular, is the time to minimize your risk by selecting the most polished, productive, NFL ready player. For example, who has a more reasonable chance to be a bust ... DHB or Eugene Monore?"

Which player has more of a reasonable chance to change how defenses play the Raiders? Which player has more of a chance to be a scoring threat? The Raiders need touchdowns. What's funny here is that your description of a prototype first-rounder lacked a very key word: talent. Don't you think that might be more important? You can polish something with a rag and some spit, if you know what I mean.

"This is a ridiculous comparison. Jerry Rice was one of the most productive WRs in college football. Jerry Rice, bar none, was the most polished route runner with sure hands. Jerry Rice was NOT selected in the Top 10. A better comparison to Jerry Rice would be 2nd round selection Robiskie. Both of these guys were advanced in their football acumen coming out of college."

WHIFF...is the sound of the point going directly over your head. No, I'm not comparing them as players, doofus. Bestowing upon Heyward-Bey the abilities of Jerry Rice at this point would be almost as stupid as trying to argue that this pick is undeniably terrible. Nice try with the strawman though. A running theme for you. I'm trying to get you to think outside of your ESPN-centric box and realize that "common sense" will lead you astray in many cases. I don't think you can deny that you would've thought Jerry Rice at #7 was a "reach", especially if you thought Mike Mitchell was another reach because of his small school, just like your idols over at ESPN. Yeah, Rice was damn productive, just like Mitchell, only most people ignored that because of where he played.

"JLH is .1 seconds slower than DHB. For all we know, JLH is faster than DHB in terms of football speed instead of speed timed in your underwear. The point being that to be blinded by DHB's stop watch speed is silly. We are drafting football players not track stars. Besides speed, the key areas when evaluating WRs is hands, route running, toughness, and productivity."

He also ran a 4.23. Is that "faster" enough for you? He's bigger and tougher too, points I raised that you ignored. Stop with the Higgins comparisons. It's showing that you don't know what you're talking about. The outcome of the draft shows he was a first-round pick regardless of the Raiders, so either there's a whole lot of NFL teams that could use your wisdom and insight, or your point is stupid. Hey, does anybody know if the Giants were interested in making Johnnie Lee Higgins their new replacement for Plaxico?

"Upside, potential, risky are not the words that I want associated with describing our #7 pick. This is fine in the latter stages of the draft when you can take a few chances. For your only 1st round pick you want the words "solid, proven, productive, high value, low risk."

Well that's you. I like words like "most impressive physical specimen in the entire draft", "warp speed", "heart", "great attitude" and "Randy Moss". The words you used were applied in equal force to such notable players as Dave Klingler, Trent Dilfer, Andre Ware, Vinny Testaverde, the aforementioned Tony Mandarich, or how about our own Robert Gallery, who I do love as a player, but undeniably the pick in that draft was Fitzgerald.

"I'm not saying the Raiders had a willing trading partner. What I am saying is that DHB was a MAJOR reach at #7."

Right, way to move the goalposts. You said "even if you love the guy, you trade down to get him".

So your argument was that the pick was bad because even if they thought he was the guy they should have traded down. I responded with the fact that it was unlikely they could find somebody to take the pick, and you changed your argument. If you can't trade down, and the player you want more than any other is on the board, what do you do? The Calico Jack plan, of course, which is to not take that player because Mel Kiper says that the rules of football mean that you don't draft that player at #7.

"You can discount draft experts from all the major media all you want. Is it an accident or misguided when ALL (not some) of these analysts had DHB valued at the bottom of the 1st round?"

It absolutely is not an accident. It's because they get all of their information from the same places, and are victim to the same groupthink mentality most football fans have bought into. I'll turn the tables on you here, though: is it an accident that as these analysts and scouts saw more of Heyward-Bey, his buzz and draft placement only increased?

"What most of the true draft analysts base their opinions on is game film and productivity."

Right, which is why Tom Brady went #199 and Andre Ware went #1. WHAT THEY DID IN COLLEGE DOESN'T MATTER!!!!! You said you understood that.

"What a guy accomplishes at the combine is meaningless in the grand scheme of things. What the player has done on the actual football field is what counts."

NO. WAY. Again, you're claiming to understand the basic idea that college and the pros are different while forming an argument based entirely on disregarding that. What a player does on the field is due to many things: his team, his opponents, his system, his coaches, and yes, his ability. The combine allows for a removal of all of those variables, so you can see more easily what kind of raw talent you're talking about. What they did on the field in college is noteworthy, but it's also important to know what a player's raw skill set is. Again, you really ought to get in contact with GM's and owners and inform them of what a waste of time and presumably money the Combine is, I'm sure they could benefit from the knowledge.

"42 receptions in 12 games for the 1st WR taken in the draft? Are you F'N kidding me. Go over the draft history for the past 40 years and please show me 1 single WR taken in the 1st round, let alone the Top 10, who had less than 50 receptions. << crickets >>"

This was my personal favorite part: the patented Calico Jack "go do hours of painstaking research on my sweeping proclamation" thing. I'm stoked, I've always wanted to be on the receiving end of one of these. You make some stupid pronouncement backed up by zero research and tell me to prove you wrong. That's the definition of poor debating skills. And I think you might want to temper that. Do you really think no wide receiver taken in the first round ever had less than 50 catches? You realize that if I can find a single good to excellent player that had less than 50 receptions that your entire argument is blown? And that the only thing keeping me from doing that is that I can't find a place to find college football statistics from 40 years ago?

3:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ButteryPat,
If I may be so bold as to jump into this debate midstream. The problem for me is not so much that we reached in consecutive rounds--ok, that is sort of a problem for me--but that there has been a pattern of favoring speed and size over on field production.

Both lines need help, we can't stop the run going on year 7 and we get a boom or bust WR. Frankly I would love to say I am shocked, but the problem is that I am not shocked at all.

Again this is a pattern, not an isolated incident.

Roy

4:22 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I was joking when I said Davis would pick speed in rd 2, then I was proven right. I guess it should be expected since Davis still lives in a world where speed trumps all other skills. Somebody remind me, are the Raiders a football team or a track team?

Unfortunately, we are seeing the product of not having a fully staffed scouting department, and one in which priorities regarding player skill sets are being misdirected.

We could have taken Monroe in Rd 1 and maybe still had DH-Bey in Rd 2, and certainly Mitchell in Rd 3, or later.

Hell, the Pats taking DT Brace with the Raiders’ pick in Rd 2 was singularly better than the Raiders entire first day.

Are the Raiders unconventional, or just stupid?

5:35 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

CJ....

Well....I guess I will join in...

Small school "DE" became a "HOF"er for the "Silver-n-Black" and went on to the have a very good TV career after retirement...Then his son entered the draft and was taken at #2 in the 1st rd...

Now how much was predicted about that "PB" player coming out of college...Was he projected as a top talent in the NFL...

NFL Draft: 1981 / Round: 2 / Pick: 48
College: Villanova

was selected to play in the Blue-Gray game and was named the MVP in 1980.

If NOT for that Bowl appearance he may have gone un-noticed and fallen into the later rds...

Now our 2nd rd pick #47 played on a very poor football team and did not get an opportunity to show himself in a bowl game...But evidently our scouts are doing their jobs...And as Cable said before the draft ever started....

We expect to take players who are NOT on everyone's "Radar"....NOT the big names but players with high talent and good attitudes...Players who fit the physical criteria which evidently has to do with rediculas things like Size-Speed-Strength-n-Physical Aggression which both of these player seem to fit very damn well...

Now is the time to Wait-n-See...I won't jump all over the guy with gushing love before he has a single snap in the NFL the way many of you posters did for Paul McQuistan just a few drafts ago...And now please tell me what the hell has he done lately and yet he was anointed the second coming of the "Wiz" just based on what...His work-out as I recall and Hair-Cut...NOT what he did on the football field....Pick #69...

Quote...

Paul McQuistan became a cult hero among members of the Raider Nation almost instantly after pictures of him with a scowl and flaming red mullet began circulating around Internet message boards. He started the first few games of his rookie season at right guard, before being benched. His second season he started the last few games at right tackle.

But alas...He was anointed by the same posters here who are now almost ready to crucify this years 2nd rd pick...And based on what exactly...That we failed to find a replacement for that player who was anointed back in "06" but has failed to live up to the hype...

PantyRaider....History Lessons When We Don't Forget!!!/_

Point of interest....

What were the comments when the Raiders selected Nnamdi at the end of the 1st and Tyler just after still in the 1st....

Oh! Ya!....Tyler will be a great player but Nnamdi was a reach and we should have traded down if we wanted him...

6:06 AM  
Blogger H said...

Everyone's been busy since my last visit I see. Not enough time to read them all. I don't have a problem with Darrius except I think we could have traded down and still picked him up.

He's big, 6'2", and fast. Sometimes inconsistant with the hands, but a hard worker and a team guy according to what I read.

If Al had taken Oher, the talking heads would have said with all the tackles signed during the off season he should have taken a wide out. Al can't win with the media and I don't think he cares.

A local radio guy said Gruden left because Al Davis never let him have any input on draft day. I don't think anyone can find that quote anywhere.

Darrius is already labled a bust by the experts. First, a draft class can only truly judged in year three. He might be a bust, but if he comes in with a chip in his shoulder and works his ass off, he could be a pro bowler in year three. Crabtree comes in with his diva attitude could fall on his face.


What I've heard is along with his 40 time, the fact that he was Maryland's only weapon on offense meant the was doubled all the time and his interview with the team went a long way toward making this pick.

I wanted Oher, didn't get him. Time to move on to day two.

H

6:07 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Point of Clarification....

In order to evaluate the value of that 2nd rd pick it will become necessary to view picks...

#47....
#124...
#199...

Because that's the total of what that #40 pick becomes worth to the team...

PantyRaider....NO Sell Outs!!!/_

6:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I didn't read all almost 200 posts, just scanned.

Observations:
JOnes, leave panty alone. Everyone knows your doomsday theory, and that Al has screwed everything for years to come and we're screwed until he dies. If you want to call other teams funny names, that's cool. But don't dog on someone who has thier own writing style and has had many years of intelegent, if not quirky input and debate.

H, as always, the best attitude in the room. Must be the fresh brew.

Now, why everyone needs to take a chill pill: Nobody has touched on what these two picks also do for our special teams. Three phases people, three phases.

On the trade with the pats, good move. I would have enjoyed picking up brace, but are two turdells better than one? I think we might snag michael johnson (DE)at 47. Not sure what centers are left, but Caldwell might be a stretch that early (but hey, if anything, we're plenty limber from all the stretching yesterday!).

It is true though that people dogged all for picking Namdi, and look at him now.

-moshbucket

6:56 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

PantyRaider said...

Well....Now several "Mock"s have the "WR"s -n- "OT" Andrade Smith falling to us at #7....Problem is most have us taking Maclin or a reach for another speed "WR"...

NOT likely as I see it....Why the hell would we reach with Boldin on a platter and Smith available....Now that would be pure stupidity and NOT something "MrD" will do....He has never been that damn "Brain Dead"...

PantyRaider...NO Screws Loose!!!/_
2:24 AM

Just thought I would re-post my take from the previous thread just so I go on record as being totally wrong....That reach "WR" was the one we took...

PantyRaider...Stand Corrected!!!/_

7:13 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

3rd rd...@#71...The Raiders select....

Chris Baker (Junior) - "DT-DE" Hampton (HT: 6'2" | WT: 300)

Strengths:
-versatile, capable of playing as either a 4-3 DT or 3-4 DE (played DE in Hampton's 3-4)
-best suited to use his quickness and great first step as a one-gap DT
-is very stout at the point of attack
-can be disruptive in the passing game, has the power and explosion to make plays
-creates havoc in the backfield, productive college career
-was Penn State's most productive DT when he played there before the transfer

This is the player I projected earlier so now I will stick with it...

PantyRaider....3 Picks Away...

7:22 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

This is a player I projected for the 2nd rd and is still on thye board...

Michael Johnson - "DE" Georgia Tech (HT: 6'7" | WT: 260)

Strengths:
-so athletic, great first step and is an excellent pass rusher, very explosive and good burst off the line
-great size, has the frame to even add more weight without it affecting his speed
-good quickness and agility, has the speed to close and finish plays
-changes direction well upfield
-strong upper body and can extend his arms when locked on
-can deliver the big hit
-his long arms make him a threat to tip passes when he can't get to the quarterback
-his athleticism and speed could even allow him to play in a 3-4 defense

PantyRaider...Almost Ready!!!/_

7:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am just hoping for someone on the OL or DL...

Roy

7:29 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Here's what Cable said about the notion of trading down in the first round:

On maybe trading down to take DHB later: "No, that was never the plan. We knew what we wanted to do the whole time. This was the choice that we thought we had to have to move this team to the next step."

Looks like they didn't consider it.

7:31 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Micheal Johnson is gone one pick before we get a shot...Striped Cats again....

7:34 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Shaughnessy, Matt "DE"

Don't know so now I have to look him up....

7:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Panty,
I'm with you on Michael Johnson. I like the pick. Although at one point I had us taking him with our #7 because I'm know we're retarded that way.

Psycho

7:41 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

Reading the posts here kinda reminds me of the reactions of everyone when we drafted some unknown CB named Asumughwa in the first round.

Glad to see "NFL expert" Avant Grape shitting up this forum now too.

Someone pass me a gun.

7:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

200 yep

Psycho

7:44 AM  

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