Wednesday, February 04, 2009

Welcome Tom! Please Prove Me Wrong

Welcome Tom Cable! Please prove me wrong.
I am on the record as not being overjoyed with Cable as the choice for head coach, especially in light of the fact that very few qualified head coaching candidates were explored over the past five weeks.
Tom Cable’s resume is rather incomplete at this point. In that context, I believe that more stones should have been turned during the head coaching search, if only to confirm that Cable was better than the rest.
With Turner, Shell and Kiffin, I fell into the party line. I figured that the Raiders knew something I didn’t about these guys. I assumed that the Raiders had discovered some untapped quality in Turner. I thought that Shell would be a great motivator. I accepted Kiffin as the Boy Wonder. In other words, I trusted that the Raiders did their due diligence with those hires.
So here I am, aching to be excited once again, but recent history has tempered my trust. My trust can’t be restored overnight. It will have to be earned back. I hope Tom Cable is up to the task. 
I will consider anything less than eight victories this year a huge disappointment. No more excuses. A .500 record shouldn’t be considered some epic achievement, not in the seventh consecutive year of trying. 
It’s time for me to get it wrong, and for the Raiders to get it right. I hope Tom Cable represents a firm step in that direction.

1201 Comments:

Blogger nyraider said...

Unfortunately, the limits of Davis' "exploration" didn't stop at the HC slot, but trickled down through the ranks.

I truly hope Tom Cable is satisfied with the staff that Davis has assembled for him.

9:21 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

The "happy to be wrong" mantra now... and before the pressor even begins.

Hoo ya!!

9:23 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Happy to be wrong: I hope I am later this year.

Unhappy to be right: What I've been for the past three years regarding the state of the franchise.

Unhappy to be wrong: What I would have been for the past three years if I'd bought Gary's ongoing excuses while the Raiders continued to prove him wrong week after week.

9:37 AM  
Anonymous Raided Nate 75 said...

RT, does this count as "significant change" you were looking for to renew your seats?

What? It doesn't? YOU'RE A LIAR, IAAFer, and a RAIDER HATER! GO ROOT FOR SOME OTHER TEAM, YOU SOUND LIKE A 9er FAN. IF YOU WANT THE TEAM TO BE RAN LIKE THE PATRIOTS, THEN ROOT FOR THE PATRIOTS, BLAH-BLAH-BLAH-BLAH!

I'm with you on this. Cable is the Art Shell pick of a few years ago. Noboday else wanted to interview for the spot. Good job Al. The ship continues to sink with the Captain. Prove me wrong.

9:38 AM  
Blogger H said...

Nate,

Take a deep breath, turn the Caps Lock off on your key board, we hear you.

One thing about Ol' Norv. Remember he came highly recommended by Jimmy Johnson. Johnson even called Al up and asked him to interview the guy. Thanks Jimmy. Can you really deflect a 9mm with that hair?

I think of all the hires, his was the most wrong. His led to Shell II. We've had three bad hires in a row. I give Callahan a bit of a pass since we did go to the SB under him.

By the way Take, I don't know how this will turn out, but I hope you are wrong too.

H

10:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
H, H. Stop it. Please stop blaming the players and coaches. Turner, White, Bugel, Shell, blah, blah blah... this person was a bad choice, this person couldn't Qb etc etc. Stop it. Who knows how any player or coach would have done had Al not insisted they use his dusty 1976 playbook. There have only been two coaches in the last 20 years at OAkland that tried to do their own thing: Gruden & Kiffin. Both were shown the door.
I'm sure poor Cable is sitting right now in Al's living room, being forced to watch the "Ghost to the Post" game, while be regaled with stories of how it was he, Al, that suggested a key pointer to Jimmy Johnson before the Cowboys one the superbowl against the Bills. After that, they'll go over a list of track/CB guys from small schools that are really, really fast.
I'm like RT & NY, I want to be positive, I want to be wrong.. but man, how mnay times do we have to get suckered into the same old joke.

10:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Actually I am somewhat optimistic about Cable. Given the circumstances who else would take the job or interview for the job other than retreads or extremely green assistants.

What worries me is the staff. We have old retreads that even Blanda or Gary would struggle to call successful.

Roy

10:40 AM  
Blogger H said...

Bama,

Wake up and smell the coffee. I wasn't blaming coaches or players. I said:

"We've had three bad hires in a row. I give Callahan a bit of a pass since we did go to the SB under him."

The person responsible for any hire is the person doing the hiring. I have always said that. I just don't get my colon all in a knot over it. I am blaming Ol' JJ for selling Al a bill of goods. Look what's happening in SD. Worse record each succeding year. The ultimate person responsible is always the top guy.

You will not find any place where I have intimated anything differently. I have been critical of players and coaches and said it was a mistake for Al to bring in Moss and Hall. The fact that I don't seem to line up for his beheading (figuratively not literally) seems to bother you.

I have said I don't know if this is the right move, but it does feel right. You have already tried and convicted Cable before he can even be indicted.

By the way, is it just me or is everyone already tired of the "Cable Guy" jokes and references.

H

10:50 AM  
Anonymous Raided Nate 75 said...

H,
I used the caps as a way to over dramatize the insanity on this board sometimes. Get a sense of humor.

11:11 AM  
Anonymous sirrastusbear said...

I'm with your previous post, RT. I've been a season ticket holder since the Raiders returned to Oakland, and while I can (barely) stomach the losing, I can't stomach management undermining coaches, making poor personnel decisions, and not providing the team with tools to win. I feel like I've been very "loyal" to the team over the past 14 seasons, attending more than 130 games, but it all stops with 2008. Until I see some significant upgrades in management (a real GM that has hiring power over the HC, a HC that has control over his players, etc.), I can't justify the $900/year expenditure. Cable has already proven one thing to me, and that he's not a great game-day coach (see the KC game for one that if we play straight-up with no trickery, we win that game easily, or the Atlanta, New England, and New Orleans games where he had no clue). He may be a favorite of the players, but we've all seen where that has gotten coaches in the past.

I'll continue to root for the team from the comfort of my couch, watch the games and listen to them, perhaps buy some merchandise, but no longer can I provide the major financial backing to a team that refuses to change.

11:46 AM  
Blogger H said...

Nate,

It was sarcasm, as in you are hurting our ears, no need to yell.

I'm actually the one with the sense of humor. A lot of folks on both sides of the fence are going to wind up with ulcers over this. I just want the Maalox franchise rights for all this.

H

11:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well that was an interesting press conference. I am not sure what to think. Watching Al reminds me a lot of watching Favre this year.

Roy

1:50 PM  
Anonymous Raided Nate 75 said...

www.tinyurl.http://www.kron.com/WatchtheOaklandRaidersNewsConferenceLive/tabid/360/Default.aspx

The conference is still going with Q&A's

1:58 PM  
Anonymous Raided Nate 75 said...

http://www.tinyurl.kron.com/WatchtheOaklandRaidersNewsConferenceLive/tabid/360/Default.aspx

Let me try again

1:58 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Roy....

I don't get the coverage...What was said at the press conferance...

2:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

PR,
Basically Al said that Tom picked his all of his own coaches, and that Tom was competing with one other coach. But it is still going on so if you go to KRON's website you can still follow along.

Roy

2:04 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Well...That's nice but the urls Raider00 left doen't work....

2:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm not sure about the rest of you, but I like the idea of sharing a stadium with the 9ers. It seems like that will be the only way we will ever get a new stadium and be able to compete financially.

Roy

2:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No it doesn't just go to KRON.

Roy

2:09 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Wow, Mr. Davis was extremely cagey when asked if the Raiders might move after the Coliseum lease is up.

2:14 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

RT...

Why wouldn't he be...It's smart politics-n-business to keep your "Ace in da Hole"....Would you expect him to give it up and not have a wedge to drive home his proposal...

PantyRaider...Clasic Al!!!/_

2:19 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"Do you like the hire of Cable as Raiders "HC"...


78% YES....

Don't just sit there...Go Vote...

http://www.insidebayarea.com/raider
s/ci_11621703

PantyRaider....Yes Vote!!!/_

2:43 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

When available, can somebody please post a link to the video? I wasn't able to catch the Cable show live... and I'm guessing nothing was announced in terms of executive help, and probably no detailed explanation....

In other news, KC was given permission by AZ to interview Todd Haley for HC.

3:16 PM  
Blogger H said...

I only saw about 15 minutes of it before NFL Network brok away.

But, who was the mystery guy in the running? My guess is Gilbride.

Al said all the coaching decisions were Cable's. I know there are many who don't believe it, but until proven different I'll take the man at his word on this one.

He also pointed out that one of the things he liked was Cable's use us the younger players toward the end of the season and got them to perform at a high level.

Cable doesn't strike me as a "Yes" man. But, I do believe he will listen to others for input, including Davis and players. As he listened to McFadden.

My guess is Cable will still call the plays. That was one of the things I liked in comparison to Kiffin. He was more agressive.

One of the delays was, in fact, the death of Cable's father as we discussed here. I still believe Hackett is the better QB coach as the reason he stays in that position. Russell needs a lot of attention, and Hackett was involved with the team last year and already has a grasp of the system.

Wikipedia has already updated it's page on John Marshall stating he is the DC for the Raiders.

Movement is happening, good or bad is yet to be determined.

H

3:34 PM  
Anonymous tinfoil said...

I'm actually ok with Cable as HC.

I thought he took a team that was in total disarray and had them playing well at the end of the year.

Kiffin simply had to be trying to get fired - the way he botched the clock management in both the Bills game and the Chargers game. And that 76 yard field goal was surreal.

I thought Cable worked well with Russell, and at the end of the season, Russell looked pretty darned good on his reads and throws.

Cable integrated young players into the game - receivers, corner, OL and DL. The emergence of Higgins, Schillens and to some extent Watkins, was great to see.

And Zack Miller is our best TE since Ethan Horton in the early 90's. The guy is a stud who is going and give our opponents matchup problems all year long. He reminds me of the Broncos Scheffler.

But, mainly, I liked the way we run the ball. With a near-zero passing game, the Raiders still were one of the most effective run games in the league. I don't want to loose that edge. If we can run the ball like we did v Bucs at the end of that game, we are going to be a whole lot more dangerous.

And I don't mind Cable's wild side. The fake field goal was a disaster, but trick plays (fake punt and an unexpected onside kick) helped us beat the Jets and Bucs - so 2 out of 3 is ok with me.

If I have one hope, its that we somehow end up with a top 12 defense to, just once, stop the other team with the game on the line.

4:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Regarding "The other guy":

I think Lofton was the other guy.
The timing of "he's not WR coach, but still with the team" seems about right for that.

And Al said the other guy didn't have the desire/love for footballl like Cable does. Can't remember exactly how he worded it. But that seems to jive with Lofton.
And since Al brought him in to put some heat on Kiff, makes sense.

-moshbucket

4:58 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Yipy!..Yipy!...Halabalooooo!....
"DramaQueens" crying Booo...Hooo...Hooo!!!

We are winning...We are winning...

Raider KoolAid drinkers "78"...
"Mutinious Dogs" "22"...

HooRaY! for our side RaiderFans with glasses 3/4 full soon to be "Runneth Over"....

The Raiders have the Play-Offs within their grasp....We got's Continuity babies....

Con-ti-freakin-nu-i-ty.....Oh! Ya! Babies....Play-Off Bound "09"....

CoachCables' da Man....

Thanks "MGP"....Way to go Big Al...

Al loves me...He gave me what I wanted again....And now he a gona goes out's anda bring's in da bacon..."FA"s galore!!!....

"DL"...

Julius Peppers, UFA, Carolina Panthers

Albert Haynesworth, UFA, Tennessee Titans

Bertrand Berry, UFA, Arizona Cardinals

"LB"s...

Ray Lewis, UFA, Baltimore Ravens

Terrell Suggs, UFA, Baltimore Ravens

Karlos Dansby, UFA, Arizona Cardinals

"S"s...

Brian Dawkins, UFA, Philadelphia Eagles

Dawan Landry, RFA, Baltimore Ravens

"OT"s...

Matt Birk, UFA, Minnesota Vikings

Mike Goff, UFA, San Diego Chargers

Jordan Gross, UFA, Carolina Panthers

"WR"s...

T.J. Houshmandzadeh, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals

Also 2 top "WR"s from "AZ" available...Boldin will give you "Fitz"...

Terrell Owens???...

PantyRaider...Take Your Pick!!!/_

5:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Al not only said he let Tom pick the whole staff, but he also said he let Lance and Art choose thier entire staff.

Just throwing that out there to see the melee ensue

-moshbucket

5:07 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

-moshbucket...

Things got quiet as the "DramaQueens" are drowning in tears and trying to re-group for their next series of negative attacks...

But they are losing on the score-board..."78-22"....

Go Vote....

PantyRaider...Got da Ha! Ha!ssssss..

5:22 PM  
Blogger H said...

Rumor central Larry Johnson and Tony Gonzalez want out of the Chefs.

But, that's on the BSPN site so take it for what it's worth.

H

5:34 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Larry Johnson for sure...I saw that after an interview he gave saying he will NOT return...

Now the "TE" would be interesting...

Could you see a 2-"TE" set in OakTown with 2 of the top receiving "TE"s in the league....Wow!!!...What could the "Cable Guy" do with that....

Pantyraider...Sweet Dreams!!!/_

5:40 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

I've said my peace.

I am disappointed that a serious football executive wasn't hired to be a part of this process, and I'm disappointed that more head coaching candidates weren't thoroughly explored. Both of those things should have happened, and didn't.

If you say these things SHOULDN'T have happened, then please explain why. Otherwise, if you agree that they SHOULD have happened, then I'm sure you won't be acting like I'm not entitled to be disappointed.

Now Cable's our guy, which makes him my guy, too. I hope it works out.

Nothing stands out to me as major tangible change at this point. I won't be renewing my season ticket package. But I'll still be rooting for Cable and the Raiders, that's for damn sure.

P.S. Another reason Gary hates Al Davis: "Davis said the only assistant the Raiders would have liked to retain was running backs coach Tom Rathman, who wanted to return to San Francisco."

5:45 PM  
Anonymous memdf said...

Here is the link to the after pc banter with the reports.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com//kawakami/

A must read...

6:14 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

memdf - thanks for the link. Not sure what to make of it all.

I just don't feel as though we are in good hands with regard to management. I like Tom Cable, but I'm afraid he's going to have to steer this ship by himself. Perhaps he can, but, as J-Mac said, the odds are against him.

6:52 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

-Q: Cable was talking about making the playoffs. Do you expect a playoff run this year?

-DAVIS: No.

Interesting. Eight wins won the AFC West last year. Turner is sliding backward, the Broncos are retooling. And yet...

6:58 PM  
Anonymous Raided Nate 75 said...

I liked how Davis was cagey with the question (paraphrasing the question): "If Tom was able to hire all the assistants he wanted; some of them were hired while still interviewing he and the other Head Coach candidate. Were they also names the other candidate brought in?"

Al's answer: "Yes, he agreed that he would like these guys on the staff."

RT, I also found it curious how he was cagey and deflected the question about moving to LA. That question came after he asked the media, "Who is going to have a new stadium ready by 2010/2011?" He looked as if somebody called his bluff when that question was asked.

One of the things that scare me about this move is no Offensive Coordinator and Cable will still do the Offensive play calling. Not sure I like that.

Overall, I still feel ho-hum about the whole thing.

7:05 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

I think the vast majority of posters on this site as well as the Raider Nation at large wanted Cable to be Head Coach.

The disappointment voiced by myself and a few others centers on a few legitimate concerns;

* How the staff was assembled to include a lack of multiple qualified candidates for each vacancy.

I sincerely believe Cable was the right choice under the current circumstances. I only wish that a few other candidates were vetted and given the chance to compete.

Competition at all levels of the organization is GOOD and should be openly encouraged. This is how you unearth the next hotshot coach, player, and executive.

Any and all chances to upgrade the coaching ranks and personnel is the key to moving up the performance ladder. Each and every member of the organization needs to be evaluated on performance.

* The lack of urgency in filling the GM/Executive role at a critical stage in the offseason.

Let's face it. Cable and Davis both need the executive support that is required in a ultra competitive, 24/7/365 business. An executive is another set of ears and eyes, another resource, provider of input, and an important sounding board for assembling the 53 man roster.

It is my hope that Cable, through his will, determination, and leadership abilities can be a capable steward to moving the franchise forward into a competitive, playoff caliber team.

I only caught a few minutes of the PC but to paraphrase what Cable said ... I REALLY appreciated Cable acknowledging the Raider fans and that the fans deserve a better product on the field and a team they can believe in. I think it is great that he has a singular focus on returning the team to the playoffs. It is nice to hear a HC unequivocally set the bar high for the future.

For those of you who namecall, call posters IAAF, or drama queens ... just remember that Raider fans come in all shapes, sizes, stripes, etc. Some of you act like if a fan voices disappointment with a certain aspect of the organization that the same fan doesn't support the team or want the team to succeed. Nothing could be further from the truth. Once a Raider coach is hired, a player signed, a player named a starter, etc, it all about supporting DA RAIIIIIIIIIIDERS!

7:35 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

RT, you bring up an intersting point. Davis says that he doesn't expect a playoff run this year.

Only a couple of years ago, Davis was of the opinion that this team was ready to win - right now. And we've actually improved on personnel since that time.

One of the things that I've been thinking about is that it seemed to me that Cable was THE coach over the last six years who actually communicated with Davis.

I think that's right. And I think that Cable has informed Davis about the lack of depth and winning attitude on this team, when no other predisessor has.

Also, when asked about an executive, Davis said that he could lie to us and say one has been hired, but he doesn't have one yet. He said, "I'm not ready."

I think that means that he still has someone in mind, who hasn't become available, so he's not ready to pull the trigger on a hire.

I'm not sure really what any of that means. But I do get the impression that FA will be played somewhat seriously this year.

8:15 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Seems odd to me. Three teams that had five wins or less in 2007 made the playoffs in 2008. We're in a weak division. And yet...

8:51 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

"And I think that Cable has informed Davis about the lack of depth and winning attitude on this team, when no other predisessor has."

That was a revelation? Maybe I am qualified to be GM after all!

9:44 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

CalicoJack....

"Sense-o-Humor"....Don't wake up without one...

"Barbossa-n-Mutinous Dogs" is...As I see it...Rather a hilarious way of presenting the "Dissension" among you...Even to this point you still can't let go of that..."I Want a GM" crying Bull-Shit...

We have a "MGP" and that point had already been reached in the discussion so NO need to continue to beat a "Dead-Horse" to death with that "Negative Campagne" anymore...Just stop walking across that "Wet Paint" and leaving all those "Foot Prints" for me to see and expose....Or would you rather I borrow Gary's "Scissors" and re-post it again and again...

Let it go....It will be over....As long as you continue to hold onto your rediculas absurdities regarding the "Structure" of the organization constructed by a "Maverick" someone here will continue to beat you over the head with it..."Negative Begets Negative"....You want to viciously attack the "GodFather" and a man I have admired sense childhood as a Raider I will in fact continue to attack you....How else can I express it...I you feel your feeling have been hurt multiply that by "10" and you may come to understand the extent which your (As a Group) constant "Negative Campagne" has had on me the past month...

I'm fully ready to "Self Delete" from this blog and never return if that shit continues...NO JOKES!!!!/_

As I have stated in the past...Al Bashing is something I will NOT be a party to nor be tolerant of...Respectful Constructive Criticism is quiet different and Al may deserve some of that but that's NOT what has been Propagated here the past weeks...It's been an All-Out Assault...Nothing more than a "Cheap Shot" on an old man who by his mere presence has earned and deserves our total respect...

Here...Cheer yourselves up...

http://captainbarbossa.moonfruit.com/

PantyRaider....Finger On The Red Button!!!/_

11:47 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Correction to an earlier post....

"AZ" players NOT "FA"s....

"WR"s Bouldin-n-"Fitz"....

Team has $40 mil under the Cap so it will be difficult to strip their players away...

PantyRaider...Scratch From WishList!!!/_

12:11 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Davis made comment about adding "some power" to the O-line.

By doing so, I hope we don't compromise a zone blocking system that has been one of the few bright spots over the last couple years.

As for a GM, I think to a large extent, Cable will have to work extra hard to help Davis fulfill this role.

Clearly a huge gap in the organization will remain until this critical position is filled.

5:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
I'm late getting around to the press conference, but Cable "picked" the DC? Followed by an announcement that the ever-present Willie Brown will be on that defensive staff, as well as Lionel Washinton? Give me a break. Wasn't Lionel Washington known as Lionel "Toast" Washington when he played for us?
Cable has no authority other than holding a whistle in his mouth, picking up a check, helping with the play-calling and working the OL. That's it. He is a very likeable guy and I hope he does well, but I agree with RT, I see no changes whatsoever in how our franchise is run. We were in dire need of a GM, a new front office, but we have the same old guy running everything. We have what Detroit had before they canned Millen, but we can't get free of our guy.

6:03 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>
I'm like RT & NY, I want to be positive, I want to be wrong.. but man, how mnay times do we have to get suckered into the same old joke.
>>>

Ok, I can call bullshit on this I think. I pointed it out in my last post in the last notestream... if someone can read a article about the Raiders and repost every single negative point while ignoring some just as interesting positive points... how is this "wanting to be positive?"

I think Bame and NY "want to be positive" its only in a "I want to have voluntary tooth extraction" sort of way.

You're pissed, you're frustrated, you're at your wits end, you blame Al for all of it... but thats not good enough for you. You also want every single one of us to be EXACTLY the same.

Thats what I think you are.

6:13 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

Ok, on to some news you can use... as I mentioned before, I think the most important hire was DC (considering Cable looked like he already had the HC job) so I went to the Seattle "newsgroup" and asked fans there for thoughts of John Marshall and his style(keep in mind they just came off a dismal season ranked nearly last in defense.)

Here are some of the more thoughtful comments, with the most positive first:

...quote...


You're probably going to get nothing but bad reports about Marshall from this group, only because the Seahawks defense had a very bad season last season with all 11 supposedly great starters returning, yet still being Swiss cheese.

People have apparently forgotten the unexpectedly great season they had in '05 under Marshall (with the defense doing much of the work to get the team to the Superbowl) and the pretty good years they had in 06 and 07. Did Marshall suddenly become senile last season, resulting in the
decline of the defense? Doubtful. The word is that the star players just didn't show up last season for some reason. Who knows what the real story is?

The main problem the Seahawks defense had all along was being weak on the road and strong at home. They just crumbled in the playoffs against GB in the snow at the end of the '07 season, giving up a 14 point lead and then getting blown out. Again, is Marshall to blame? Probably not.
What are the chances *he* was the one doing something different on the road than he did at home? Slim to none.

I would say that Marshall is a big question mark. When he started as DC here, he was helped out a great deal by Rhodes. Since he really took the reins he has had mixed success, as I described above. Depending upon his personnel and the constraints put upon him from above, he could do a great job for you, or not. I'd wish you luck, but I hate the Raiders like death so I'll just say that it will be interesting to watch from here.

Stephen

...end quote....

More positive:

...quote....

> Could you give me any insights into his style, impressions in general,
> etc?

General impressions - tends to be conservative.

That might have been a function of his involvement with
our head-coach - no way to really be sure.

He can sometimes be brilliant. The job he did against Dallas a couple years ago in the playoffs with a defensive backfield full of guys who were parking lot attendants the week before
is still legendary (in my household.)

The complete stoning he put on Steve Smith and the Carolina
Panthers during the 2005/6 playoffs was absofantastic.

He's got a ton of experience, and has seen the game at
the highest level. He may not be the best or youngest,
but he's probably what the Raiders need right now.


...end quote...

And now the negatives to keep NY, and Bama happy:

...quote...

>>>
If not the stealers*, I'm thrilled you guys got him. Enjoy having a swiss-cheese _efense.
>>>

Now now...he did improve Ray Rhodes' "play 5 yards off the receiver"
scheme by having the defender play 4.5 yards off the receiver. ;)

..end quote...


And the knife to the throat synopsis to give Bama and NY woodies:

...quote...

He's a pretty good coordinator the final 40 minutes of a game.
Trouble is, you're down by three scores after the first twenty.

But in all seriousness my primary criticism would be his bizarre
proclivity to stick with things that very, very, VERY obviously aren't working. The best example from last season would be the Thanksgiving Day game in Dallas. Without a healthy Patrick Kerney the Seahawks had
nobody in the front four who was capable of consistently rushing the
passer, so Marshall decided that a vanilla pass rush and soft zone
that hadn't stopped anybody all year was the game plan that would keep the game close. Unsurprisingly, the Cowboys met zero resistance on their way to 24 points in the first 23 minutes, after which Marshall finally mixed in a few blitz packages that confused the easily rattled
Romo. The Cowboys were held to 10 points over the final 37 minutes,
but needless to say the 'Hawks couldn't climb out of that huge hole.

I could point to a number of other strange decisions, like allowing
Kelly Jennings to EVER be in man coverage, or bringing the safeties up
close to the LOS even though they're consistently getting torched deep, but I don't want to pile on.

Looking at the bigger picture, the Seahawk defense was neither as good
as what they showed in 2007 nor as bad as they showed in 2008. As
luck would have it in 2007 a series of incompetent and injury-riddled
offenses visited Qwest Field and the Seahawk defense looked good. In
2008 the Seahawk offense couldn't sustain drives, so the defense
wasn't quite as bad as it looked. In reality I think you're getting a
middling DC, all things considered.


...end quote...

6:41 AM  
Anonymous Raided Nate 75 said...

BR said, "One of the things that I've been thinking about is that it seemed to me that Cable was THE coach over the last six years who actually communicated with Davis."

Interesting thought, especially since this will be his 3rd season with us.

RT said, "-Q: Cable was talking about making the playoffs. Do you expect a playoff run this year?

-DAVIS: No."

Liar! Where's your source? :D
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who heard that.

BR said, "Also, when asked about an executive, Davis said that he could lie to us and say one has been hired, but he doesn't have one yet. He said, "I'm not ready."

I think that means that he still has someone in mind, who hasn't become available, so he's not ready to pull the trigger on a hire."

You fail to mention that he then goes on to talk about how difficult it is to talk money and budget with the coaches in that same answer. That tells me that he is not ready to step aside and let someone else do the number crunching, while he approves/disapproves. Then later he talks about his son, Mark, not ready to "take over" yet. So I think the "local guy" is his son.

6:48 AM  
Anonymous Raided Nate 75 said...

Hey Gary, I agree with the comment you got on Marshall, and not getting any positive feedback from Seattle. The one thing I found humorous was his take that the "stars on defense for some reason just didn't show up." But he didn't know why.
Seattle came into this season with Holmgren saying it would be his last, and he had an heir to his coaching throne. I think that's the reason why the team "disappeared". Their HC cared less about what they did, and it showed. He wasn't leading them, he wasn't pushing them, he was counting down the days. It was a situation much like Kiffin this season, but the Front guys in Seattle never let him go.

6:54 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

Meanwhile, the new "genius" over at KC has not one but BOTH of his two star players wanting out of KC, and PFT sez this:



"As the Kansas City Chiefs continue to engage in one of the most secretive job searches in NFL history,"

Hmmmmmm...

8:49 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Gary - How is this gem a counter to anything I've posted on this blog, ever?

"I think Bame and NY "want to be positive" its only in a "I want to have voluntary tooth extraction" sort of way."

Have you and PantyRaider suddenly become RT blog police, responsible for censoring all posts? I don't remember getting that memo.

9:12 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

I kept hearing that I had no right to be disappointed. For weeks, that's all I heard from certain corners.

Yet as I was saying all along, no executive was hired or consulted to assist with the coaching search, and only two head coaching candidates were seriously considered. These are facts.

And I have no right to be disappointed by these facts, when poor coaching hires and a lack of competent executive input have been the main source of our woes for years?

9:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
Gary, in response to the the Iliad you posted above as to the new DC:
You still don't get it do you? It doesn't matter what the guy did in his prior job. It doesn't matter what any player or coach does before they come to Al's International House of 1977 Pancakes. It's a different game here. It's a time warp. You lose your identity and are forced to play a role from the past when you come to Al's playhouse.
Watch and see.. what Rob Ryan does in cleveland will look nothing like what he did for us. The scheme will look different. Watch.
Take Alabama as an example. For years the tide tried to re-live the glory days of the Bear.. Perkins, Dubose, Mike Shula... always trying to recreate the past. Then they said, FU(* it, we want to be relevant again. So they went out and hired one of the best coaches out there... that was also a great recruiter (Saban).Put their football destiny in competent hands. Now look at them. They aren't a joke anymore. They are a contender.
That's all most of us are saying, Gary, is that our organization no longer works. Yet it seems to piss you off to no end, Gary. I don't even understand what you are arguing about anymore.
Do you really like how things have been going for the S&B and really think Al has a great processs in place?

10:45 AM  
Blogger H said...

Calico,

As to the IAAF, I did use that term a few times last year, but only after folks like me, Blanda and Panty were informed we were Kool-Aid drinkers even though we had posted items where we disagreed with Al. I haven’t used the term in quite a while and have no plans to. We have differences of opinions, which is why I went off on the use of the word liar. It has no place here.

-----------------------------
Bama,

“Cable has no authority other than holding a whistle in his mouth, picking up a check, helping with the play-calling and working the OL. That's it.”

Am I missing something? Is your clairvoyance that good? You know with 100% certainty that Cable has no responsibility whatsoever? Or, were you that fly on the wall at all the meetings? I’m just trying to figure out what your source is for a statement made with such absolute conviction and vitriol.
---------------------------------

As for vetting candidates, the Brownies practically fired and hired their coach in the same breath. Everyone else seems to be out for the hot coordinator du jour who only has one good year under his belt. Haley from the Red Chickens is the latest. They were the Dolts of the NFC, won their division with an 8-8 record. Yeah, they got to the Super Bowl, but so did at least three other coaches who were fired in the last two years.

I agree some of your best coaches worked their way up through the ranks. But, it’s still a crapshoot. Cable actually has a body of work as HC, albeit small.

But, from the transcript I picked these few tidbits:

On ending the season: “I felt we were becoming a team that went to work for each other and that realized that its not all about stressing over winning or losing and that when you go to work every day and know when you leave every day that you gave your best.” Translation, play for the guy next to you and leave nothing on the field. Believe me, that’s what the good teams do.

Sundays: “When we go into the locker room on Sunday it's all of us against whoever they put out there.” Once again team concept. The old Raiders against the world attitude. I wonder if he is including the refs.

On the team: “I love this team. You ask why? It's because I believe in this team, that’s why.” Remember how Kiffin talked about how the team sucked (my interpretation of what he said in public).

His attitude on defense: “Defensively, this team is very talented on defense. Not to put pressure on anyone, but it is. I’ve been around them for two years. I want to get back to what I used to see and I see it on NFL Films all the time. Raiders knocking off helmets and knocking them down and beating them down on defense.” I actually saw some of that in the last two games.

And he actually apologized to Raider Fans for the last six years, not just the last two he was a part of.

The words were right. They were spoken with force and conviction, at least the parts that I saw. I hope he comes out firing from both barrels and sticks it in the eye of all the nay sayers in the press and other media outlets.

Take, you have every right to be disapointed. I think that's like the 12th Amendment (just a joke folks).

Lane Kiffin update: His first recruiting class was mediocre, average at best. 17th nationally gets you 7th in the SEC. Three teams in his division and his main rival Alabama all out recruited him. And he claimed Urban Myer at Florida was cheating because he called a recruit when he was visiting Tennessee. Just wait until Florida plays Tennessee next fall. At this rate I give him three years.

H

11:08 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Regarding the firing of Kiffin:

DAVIS: "If I had made the move at the start of the season I’m not sure I would have had cause."

JERRY MAC: "In other words, much of the season was lost over the amount of money a coach Davis didn’t want was to be paid."

I wonder where I got that crazy idea that winning was no longer the top priority in Oakland? I wonder why I might be disappointed about where my season ticket money went last year?

12:01 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

RT:

Didn't you get the latest memo from the RT Blog Thought Police?

'Complaining,disappointment, and critical analysis is strictly forbidden. Lolipops and Sugar Plums are allowed on the premises.'

12:10 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Marshall was elevated to the defensive coordinator position prior to the 2005 season. His defense led the NFL with 50 sacks, allowed only one 100-yard rusher, finished second in the NFL in red zone defense (40.4%) and rushing touchdowns allowed (5) en route to a berth in Super Bowl XL.

Now that's a whole hell of alot more than we ever got out of "SOB"...Not even close...

Coupled with what "H" just reported I like this hire...

CoachCable...Overall in my opinion...

Talk like a "MAN" not some young punk out to make a name for himself...Speaks about commitment from player to player and than goes out and shows commitment coach to coach as he asks the elder coaches who he hired and Al Davis...

"Teach me what you know"....

Now in my book that's huge...Damn Huge....Not an egomaniac but a coach who surrounds himself with a great deal of experience and than is willing to draw upon that experience....That Brothers speaks very loud to me and I think to the players as well....Now I understand why our players started to perform at the end of the season with nothing to gain or play for except the game itself...Love of the Game and Raider luv for each other as a team...That's something we have not had for a long long time...

Cable's "O"....

Quick timing routs and deep timing routs that Air Coreal was known for and he brings in his understudy as his "Passing Game Coordinator" both to teach this to the players and to him as "HC"...He realizes his limitations...

"OL-ZBS" that's strong in the running game but may be somewhat suspect in pass protehtion...However...With quick timing routs and deep timing routs the "OL" does not need to hold their blocks as long...

By the time the "WR" makes his cut the ball is already in the air..."DB"s are still playing the man and have little play on the ball as they react to the cut not to the ball...When they see the cut they want to check the "QB"...That split-second that they take a eye of the "WR" gives separation as the "WR" already has possession and is turning up-field....

Power-n-Speed rushing as is characteristic of the "ZBS"...Incorporate "Play-Action" to stall the rush...Pump the ball to an unintended "WR" to distract the "DB"s....

Cable desires to be unpredictable and so his team will have many faces along with his trade-mark "Razle-Dazle" trickery....

I'm loving what I see here brothers...It's about time...

PantyRaider...BlogSite Police Chief!!!/_

Thanks For The Promotion NYRaider....

12:12 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

'Complaining,disappointment, and critical analysis is strictly forbidden

Oh! My!....

"critical analysis"....Is that like constantly complaining that the Raiders don't have a "GM" when they have a "MGP" which you signed off on in an earlier post when you agreed that NOT all teams have a "GM"....Some have a....

Gary....Can I please borrow your scissors...

Than after you painted yourself in that corner you walked across all that "Wet Paint" to continue your assault on the Raiders for NOT having a "GM"...

Now...Is that what you call..."critical analysis"....

Myself I could sum up what was posted over and over again for weeks in just these few words...

Wa!...Wa!...Fucking Wa!....

Al Davis wears all the hats...

But now it's reported Cable hired these coaches just as in the case of Art and Lance...Now...Had there been an attempt to say something like....

"Well....We guess we were all misinformed by the "MEDIOT"s and should NOT have believed everything we read...

Than...In all likelihood a reply would result saying....

"Told Ya So"....

NO...Strike That....

That's OK...It happens to all of us at times when we are blinded by our disappointments in life....

But NO!!!!...Now is time to assault the ones who "Told Ya So"....

So please continue with your bitch....

PantyRaider...Your Turn Losers!!!

Score....78-22...

12:33 PM  
Blogger H said...

Take,

Like it or not, and I don't necessarily like it because I had a similar reaction, sometimes the financial sheet will drive decisions. Doing it the way he did saved the team 3-5 million dollars. Hopefully that can now be utilized in some more constructive way.

Under the circumstances I would have prefered cutting the cord before the season to avoid all the tumult.

I haven't heard of any decision coming down from the NFL on any grievence yet.

H

12:40 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

That was my point, really, that dollars, not winning, drove the decision. Dollars were the top priority.

Meanwhile, we wasted five times that amount on Hall and Walker.

We put considerably more financial emphasis on a cornerback with known character issues (when cornerback was the least of our worries) than on the HEAD COACHING position.

Oddly, this strikes some folks as dandy.

1:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Panty,
You seem to have it twisted. Al has SINGLE HANDEDLY destroyed this once proud franchise and lots of us fans are pissed off!

You keep referencing 78-22 like that is an affirmation of something. We had no choice but to hire Cable. Given the circumstances that was the right choice. What pisses me off is how we came to be in these circumstances. Most notably that we have an ego maniac running our team like some sort of third world dictator.

Roy

1:22 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

RT...

I don't believe anyone liked the situation nor how it was handled but the Law is the Law...

A player can be cut as per NFL rules and clauses in his contract...

A coach may be handled differently sense that does not come under the NFLPA...I don't know all the legal issues but I assume that money comes out of a different pocket than the salary cap for players...Perhaps it is counted differently as to how it can be wrote off on the teams expenses...taxes...etc...

I don't know but I don't believe it was just a money issue...Al stated he would not have had "Cause"...Week 5 he had cause...Other coaches were fired early this year...What happened with them...Anyone bother to look...SadFran for instance...Was that with "Cause"...What was in his contract...What was in Lance's contract...

PantyRaider...Hazardous Clause!!!!

1:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Panty,
You are missing the point. It is not about the law. It is about priorities. Al admitted that he tanked our season, just so he could get out of paying Kiff. Yet he blows money on stupid free agents (Hall & Walker) and on current players (Kelley). Winning is not the number 1 priority to Al anymore. If it was he wouldn't have waited for cause, he would have fired him at the end of the season.

Roy

1:37 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

ROY....

That "third world dictator" is running "Our Team"....

Surprisingly I was under the impression it was "HIS" team and he is legally the "MGP"....Until one of us fans have enough $$$cash to buy even a small interest in "HIS" team I will continue to view it as "HIS"...

"third world dictator"....Was that a reference to George "Whacker" Bush....

PantyRaider...Twist-n-Shout..Come On Babies...Shake It On Out!!!!/_

78-22....Fan Vote Was Positive....Overwhelmly Positive and so am I....

1:39 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
Raider Take said...

I kept hearing that I had no right to be disappointed.
>>>


Who said that?

I think you have the right to do anything you want. I also have the right to criticize you if I so wish. Most of us agreed with you that you did the right thing in deciding not to renew your season tickets... and yet you seem to still be on some sort of quest to prove to the world that the decision was justified.

We believe you RT.

1:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
H, you ask how do I know Cable's power will be limited? You're kidding right? You're like a guy that walks outside every morning, sees the sun come up and then asks someone ten years later, "How do you know the sun will come up every day... did you speak to the sun?"
I'm going to start calling you Helen Keller.
As for Tennessee... I've read numerous articles that say Kiff and company did a great job recruiting considering their staff was assembled late in the game. They are saying that Kiff has put together one hell of a recruiting staff there and has up'd the already ridiculous ante on coaching salaries in the SEC by brining in so many top notch asst caoches (one of those being one of Saban's best recruiters, right?). I bet you Tennessee is in the SEC mix again soon. Kiff is doing fine so far. The only sin he comitted with Al was he dared to do what needed to be done... stand up to the old man.

1:41 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

ROY...

WOE! Woe! Woe!....

Show me that quote where Al admitted he "Tanked Our Season"...

There ya go again with that "OUR" word....

PantyRaider...Twist It In...Twist It Out....Shake It All About!!!/_

Any idea what "It" is....Ha! Ha!...

1:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Panty:
DAVIS: "If I had made the move at the start of the season I’m not sure I would have had cause."

JERRY MAC: "In other words, much of the season was lost over the amount of money a coach Davis didn’t want was to be paid."

Take already posted this quote. And yes, I use the word "our" because I am attached to the team and I view it as MY team. And for the record Al swindled the team, he did not buy it.

Roy

1:50 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>
I’m just trying to figure out what your source is for a statement made with such absolute conviction and vitriol.
>>>>


The "source" is the unwritten IAAFer bible.

It's in the verse right after Al is responsible for all things Raider since the 1990's (except for all the GOOD things Raider... which are the responsibility of Gruden and Allen.)

These things are supposed to go unquestioned... like Al controls the entire defense (we are just supposed to ignore the last two games when Cable took more control of all-things-Raider.)

And if the new DC is blitz-happy.. then suddenly we will not see anyone mention this part of the IAAFer bible verse again. These are "cafeteria IAAFers."

And Panty... you can't have my scissors dammitall! I just got it sharpened.

1:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gary, Please tell me whose fault it is? If not Al, whom?

Roy

1:54 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

I seem to remember everyone up in arms in the thought that Al would fire Kiffin in the offseason (yes, myself included) and now suddenly everyone is up in arms because Al didn't fire Kiffin in the off-season... and using it as ammunition in he was undermining the operation??

What was Al supposed to know at the time?

That Kiffin would purposely try to get himself fired?

Sure, in 20/20 hindsight, he SHOULD have fired him... but only with the caveat that he hired Cable at the time.

I don't like relying on 20/20 hindsight.

It makes one appear as if their argument is weak.

2:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gary, I repeat, whose fault is it?

Roy

2:03 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

You said it, in so many words, Gary. You said I was panicking, lying, making things up, etc. as if there were no basis to my expressions of disappointment.

You have been yelling at me for weeks for observing following, yet it's all confirmed to be true:

-No competent executives were hired to help with the assembly of the coaching staff. Check.

-The pool of head coaching candidates was unnecessarily slim. Check.

-Poor head coaching hires and a lack of competent executive input are the root of our current woes, so to proceed in this process without fresh executive input and without exploring more head coaching candidates is reckless, given where this approach has gotten us over the past several years. Check.

-Winning is no longer the top priority. Check (see Mr. Davis's comments about choosing dollars over coaching with regard to firing Lane Kiffin).

-Tom Rathman is a good coach. Check (see Mr. Davis's comments).

At this point, I know you'll want to take out the scissors and start yammering about the Chiefs or about how I said that Mr. Davis was hiring all of the assistants (which, by the way, I never said).

Yawn.

2:04 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

Roy... as I said before, in the last 9 years, Al is mostly responsible for 6 of the crappy years. He is also MOSTLY responsible for the three good years. A 33 percent championship percentage isn't bad in todays NFL.

Hell, I'd bet half the teams in the NFL would take that!

Now watch as the IAAFers try to discount that Al was responsible for the good years... you all know you want to!!! JUST DO IT!! You can't stop yourself. Admit it!!

2:05 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

ROY....

That was NOT Al Davis making that statment...It was a freaking "Mediot"...Can't you tell the differance...

Al only spoke about "Cause"...

Warning! Warning! Warning!...

Don't make false acusations or asumptions...Or Quoats...

SHhhhhh!..Someone might use that 4 letter word....And post it's....
...."Lies"....

PantyRaider...Twisten On Down!!!/_

2:05 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

i ask myself, why are the steelers SB champs ? do they have the greatest talent ? no.
but they do have great toughness and direction.

i believe tom cable can bring the toughness and direction to the raiders.

however, john marshall as DC ? very, very underwhelming.
could have, should have done much better.

2:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Panty, that quote came from AL.Not a mediot.

Gary,
what about the 13 years of crap before the three good years. Al's percentage over the past 18 years is horrible. It is not just 6 years. But yes, Al does deserve credit when we win because he is in charge.

Roy

2:10 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

RT...

Did you hear this from Al or one of your damn "Mediot"s...

-Winning is no longer the top priority. Check (see Mr. Davis's comments about choosing dollars over coaching with regard to firing Lane Kiffin).

I can't freaking believe it...Now what ever the "Mediot"s report is suddenly the gods honest truth...Sense when did you become so damn loyal to a "Mediot" that you will turn on the organization...

FACT...According to Al's coments the "Mediot"s are reporting....."LIES"....

Now there...You made me use that "4" letter word....

PantyRaider...."Mediot" LIAR (plural form)!!!!/_

I didn't want to add the "s" as that would not have been a "4" letter word...

2:15 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

RT... in all of that, where did I say you had no RIGHT to say what you said?

You take me to task for saying inaccurate statements (hence the running with scissors) so it seems hypocritical to say this.

Hell, I AGREE with some of what you are saying. IIRC, I just wanted to know how you knew that Al wasn't going to hire a GM-type person?

You seem to take exception to me taking exception to people fabricating "facts."

That seems like a YOU problem more than anything.

And I think you are becoming desperate in trying to prove Al isn't committed to winning.

It's VERY uncommon for a owner to fire a coach not in a bye week.

Football is a complicated game... ja know?

2:16 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

ROY...

It Did NOT...Al mentioned "Cause"...This is frm a "Mediot" LIAR...

JERRY MAC: "In other words, much of the season was lost over the amount of money a coach Davis didn’t want was to be paid."

You quoated it as from Al and it most certainly is NOT...

PantyRaider...Losing Tract???/_

2:19 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
what about the 13 years of crap before the three good years. Al's percentage over the past 18 years is horrible.
>>>

How far back do you want to go Roy? Let me guess, you want to stop at 1985???

I am simply applying NFL terms of success to THIS DECADE. I don't think that is unreasonable... JFC.

Why would YOU think it is?

2:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Panty:
Here is Al's words: DAVIS: "If I had made the move at the start of the season I’m not sure I would have had cause."

He is saying he waited to fire him because he wanted to wait for "Cause". Meaning he chose money over winning.

Roy

2:24 PM  
Anonymous Gary said...

>>>
-Tom Rathman is a good coach. Check (see Mr. Davis's comments).
>>>>

My main point was that I thought our RB's underachieved more than anything.. and that most of our improvements were due to the o-line and the new ZBS... not Rathman.

I still think those are VALID points. If you are not keen on having valid points brought up here RT (its irrelevant HOW the points are brought up) then that again is a YOU problem.

2:29 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Gary, so you've been yelling at me and calling me IAAF when you agree with much of what I've been saying all along? That's pretty weird, dude.

Based on what I just said above, outlining my specific points of disappointment, where do we disagree?

When folks are yelling at you, calling you IAAF, liar, panicker, etc., it's easy to conclude that they think you have no right (not in the 1st Amendment sense, but in the conversational sense) to the opinions in question.

You ask: "I just wanted to know how you knew that Al wasn't going to hire a GM-type person?"

Honestly, Gary. I said he HADN'T hired a GM type, not that he WON'T. As of today, he still HASN'T, but he MIGHT (someday...).

My disappointment was based on facts, not conjecture.

2:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gary,
Of course I want to go back 18 years. The NFL is does not measure in decades. It measures in what have you done for me now. Al Davis has done a horrible job for the past 18 years, except 2000-2002, but that is the exception that proves the rule. If his name was John Smith you and Panty would both be calling for his head.

Roy

2:32 PM  
Anonymous Gary said...

>>>

He is saying he waited to fire him because he wanted to wait for "Cause". Meaning he chose money over winning.
>>>>


And if he had fired him right away, you all would bash him just as hard for not being committed to winning because he didn't even wait until the bye week (like most owners do when firing mid-season).

Admit it.

2:32 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Regarding Rathman, my opinion that he was a good coach (not a "mediocre" one, as you said) is equally valid. So we argued about it. Now Mr. Davis himself says that he regrets losing Rathman. So either Rathman is a good coach, or Mr. Davis regrets losing a mediocre coach. So what's your point?

2:34 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
The NFL is does not measure in decades. It measures in what have you done for me now.
>>>>

LOLOLOL!!! This is getting NUTS!

I am the one that wants to measure what we are doing "now"... like in just the last 9 years.

You want to go back further.

That's what your argument was... here it is again:

>>>>
what about the 13 years of crap before the three good years. Al's percentage over the past 18 years is horrible.
>>>

Jeesh. Kids these days.

2:39 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Gary, you need to do your homework (again). The question about Kiffin's firing wasn't about when to fire him during the season, but about firing him BEFORE the season started:

"When asked if he regretted not firing Kiffin before the season started, Davis said, “I tried to reason with the guy. I thought we could get something out of him and I wanted to push it through to see if I could push it through.

2:39 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

RT... uhh, my point is I disagreed somewhat with you, and now Mr. Davis?

Do I need to ask you permission to do this?

You sure seem to be sensitive to everything RT.

I will stop calling you an IAAFer in a general way. Does that make you happy?

2:43 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>
RT moving the goalposts:

"When asked if he regretted not firing Kiffin before the season started, Davis said, “I tried to reason with the guy. I thought we could get something out of him and I wanted to push it through to see if I could push it through.
>>>>


Whats wrong with this RT? This seems perfectly reasonable. I thought your argument was that he fired him to save money?

What IS your argument?

2:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gary, you are so full of shit. Any GM in the league would be fired for setting the record of most consecutive seasons of 11 losses or more.

You said: I am the one that wants to measure what we are doing "now"... like in just the last 9 years.

Now is not the last 9 years.

Roy

2:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gary, it is simple. Again you are making shit up about a bye week. Plain and simple Al did not fire kiff before the season because he wanted to wait for cause. So he tanked the season intentionally. Period. All your double speak is nothing but BS.

Roy

2:56 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Gary, as I have already noted, Mr. Davis also answered that same question with:

DAVIS: "If I had made the move at the start of the season I’m not sure I would have had cause."

Now, put down the scissors, focus, and please respond to each of the points I made in my previous four comments, which I courteously extended in response to you.

3:02 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"Sensitive Issues"...

Now it appears that if you are "Miss Quoted" here that is a "Felony" punishable by being "Keel Hauled"....

However....If it's Al Davis who is miss-quoted than that's just fine...And you can take a piece of what he said and "Lace" it with a pasted comment from a "Liar" "Mediot" and now proclaim it right from Al's Big Mouth...Interesting...

To be called names is just not right here but to refer to Al Davis in derogatory fashion is completely acceptable...Slandering his "Age"...Lack of Mobility...Commitment to running his own organization...Etc..Etc...Etc...

Here is the "Commitment To Be Proven Correct" at all cost and damn anything that comes up to the contrary as long as it can be slanted in your favor...

Well Folks...NOT very Manly...

Al Davis is a "MAN"....He speaks like a "MAN"...He "MANs-UP" and admits to making mistakes...He "MANs-UP" and admits he needs help...He "MANs-UP" and apologises to the Fans....In case you forgot it's an "80" year old owner of a billion dollar NFL franchise that's doing that....

CoachCable is a "MAN"...Just like Al he admits to making mistakes and had a learning curve...He says where we are going and shows the commitment to get us there...He asks elder coaches who work for him to teach him what they know....That folks is "MAN-TALK"...

Now I know "BR"...Gary...-n-...Myself...Have admitted to being wrong...We have corrected our own statements...Sounds kinda like "MAN-TALK" to me from where I sit...

Now folks...Have you heard one single god damn lying "Mediot" come out and "MAN-TALK" to you...To Al Davis...To anybody...

Nope...Nope...And you wont because they are paid "Hack-Men"...That's their job...To say or write what ever sparks a nervous twitch in all the "Drama Queens" so they can stir up a reaction that sells their dirty "Rags" or Radio/TV Time...

The question is are you willing to "MAN-UP"...That's a huge question...

Al has been misquoted here constantly and lies have been posted about him and what he does without a single "MAN-LIKE" retraction....

Point #1...I believe he said he hated to let Rathman go...Now did he say why...The god damn "Mediot"s said why but did Al himself say why...

In the past he has complained because he lost a friend when someone departed...Were they an irreplaceable coach that would cause the team great detriment to lose from it's staff...Or someone Al respected and liked and enjoyed having in his employment...

Why did Rathman leave...Reported by Al because he wanted to return to "SadFran"...But Oh! My!....How the "DramaQueens" read into everything...As long as the speculation is negative against Al Davis that's just find and dandy...Right!!!!...

PantyRaider....MAN-TALK!!!!/_

3:34 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Reading today’s posts is like sifting through wreckage.

Gary - What is so difficult about understanding the quote that's posted above (about six times)?

Davis waited to establish cause. It wasn't about winning, he would have said that. It was about establishing cause. Get it!?

And there's no hindsight needed to suggest that Al should have fired Kiffin. Most of us so-called IAAFers were getting pretty sick of the charade by the time the Combine unfolded.

3:36 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

ROY....

Your take is "BS"...Your assumption is a negative view that Al Davis would "Tank" a whole season to save money on a coach....How foolish and childish...There has been alot of that here of late...And you want to call Al Davis "Childish"...Ha!...

He said he was trying to get something out of him...He thought he could...Now you read that as being $$$$cash....How stupid is that...The man has $$Billions...He love his team...He desires to win more than you ever could...You have absolutely nothing invested in "His" franchise and no time in it...What the fuck did you lose...He lost a whole hell of alot...Just look at all that $$$cash he paid those players...And you actually believe he would "Tank" the season just to save a $$$buck....

PantyRaider....Absolutely Hopeless!!!/_

3:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Panty, Are you literate? Can you read Al's own words?

DAVIS: "If I had made the move at the start of the season I’m not sure I would have had cause."

Emphasize the start of the season. Everyone knows Al and Kiff began feuding at the end of last season when kiff wanted to fire SOB.

I have tens of thousands of dollars invested in the form of season tickets for 10 years, gear, memorabilia, etc. I have more than 20 years invested in this franchise. I have been following them religiously since I was 10.

And for the record I never called Al childish. Incompetent, yes. Egomaniac, yes. Third world dictator, yes.

But you are right, it is HIS team. That is why he and he alone is responsible for the crap and garbage. He is destroying his legacy. It will be forever tarnished.

Roy...Speaking truth.

3:52 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Fletcher Christian...

Barbossa...

Mutinous Dogs...

DramaQweens...

Earned every one and than some!!!/_

3:52 PM  
Blogger TheFreakingPope said...

Well, if we are going on the record...

I believe in this decision. I believe Al when he says that the staff in Tom's.

To quote Mr. Davis, "He did do well".

3:52 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Roy...

You got something for every fucking $$dollar you spent...Right...You did not invest a damn dime in the organization and neither have I....It's NOT a public company and it's stock does not trade on the stock exchange...You did not donate a damn penny to the team with nothing in return did you???/_

Al Davis extended to you an opportunity to live threw his team and you are dissatisfied with the life you have...That's just your personal baggage....No promises were made except we try to win...Now you evidently think that was a lie too...

PantyRaider...Sad Case of Dejection!!!/_

3:59 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Yippy! Yippy!....

I got's "100"...

PantyRaider....Sorry!!!/_

4:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Again you get it twisted Panty. I am not dissatisfied with my life, only with the incompetent, old bastard running my favorite football team into the ground.

Roy

4:09 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

So..By deduction...Roy is "30"...

"20" years compared to my "36"...

Speaking truth I have zero investment in "36" years as an attender...suporter...BoosterClub member...Tattoo wearing hardcore RaiderFan who has been drunk on Raider-Koolaid sense I was "12" and still drinking...

Just a note of reality while you ignore half of Al's statement about how he thought he could get something out of him as in perhaps getting him to do his job but by week 5 it became perfectly clear that that was not going to happen so with "Cause" he exterminated the "Punk-Ass"...But that would take a huge leap of faith for you to come to a logical positive conclusion such as that so I wont expect it from you...

PantyRaider...Drunken Bastard!!!/_

4:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Actually I am 34, in about 2 weeks. And I am a Raider tattoo sporting, (also a drunken bastard =)die hard who has been addicted since I was 10.

And yes, I stopped giving Al the benefit of the doubt years ago.

Roy

4:22 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Gary, I'm still awaiting your responses to all of the following points, which were courteously and specifically extended to you in response to your own points:
___________

You said I was panicking, lying, making things up, etc. as if there were no basis to my expressions of disappointment.

You have been yelling at me for weeks for observing following, yet it's all confirmed to be true:

-No competent executives were hired to help with the assembly of the coaching staff. Check.

-The pool of head coaching candidates was unnecessarily slim. Check.

-Poor head coaching hires and a lack of competent executive input are the root of our current woes, so to proceed in this process without fresh executive input and without exploring more head coaching candidates is reckless, given where this approach has gotten us over the past several years. Check.

-Winning is no longer the top priority. Check (see Mr. Davis's comments about choosing dollars over coaching with regard to firing Lane Kiffin).

-Tom Rathman is a good coach. Check (see Mr. Davis's comments).
__________

Gary, so you've been yelling at me and calling me IAAF when you agree with much of what I've been saying all along? That's pretty weird, dude.

Based on what I just said above, outlining my specific points of disappointment, where do we disagree?

When folks are yelling at you, calling you IAAF, liar, panicker, etc., it's easy to conclude that they think you have no right (not in the 1st Amendment sense, but in the conversational sense) to the opinions in question.

You ask: "I just wanted to know how you knew that Al wasn't going to hire a GM-type person?"

Honestly, Gary. I said he HADN'T hired a GM type, not that he WON'T. As of today, he still HASN'T, but he MIGHT (someday...).

My disappointment was based on facts, not conjecture.
____________

Regarding Rathman, my opinion that he was a good coach (not a "mediocre" one, as you said) is equally valid. So we argued about it. Now Mr. Davis himself says that he regrets losing Rathman. So either Rathman is a good coach, or Mr. Davis regrets losing a mediocre coach. So what's your point?

4:24 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>
You said I was panicking, lying, making things up, etc. as if there were no basis to my expressions of disappointment.
>>>

I think I was saying that in GENERAL of IAAFers RT.

Are you an IAAFer?

I am not sure myself... you have a little better BALANCE than most of the people that I would consider an IAAFer.

Are you this paranoid in real life?

4:41 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Not paranoid, still waiting...

4:45 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

The blind faith here blows me away. It's really quite sad, but Al Davis is at best a shell of his former self (a football legend and HOFer).

The evidence is there for all of us to see, yet some choose to look away like this is some kind of a fairly tale.

In a very short time frame, we have all witnessed an unbroken pattern of losing, bad free agent decisions, indecision regarding in-season roster moves, unprecedented HC turnovers, destructive coach and player scholarships, and bizarre behavior (namely, the Kiffin saga), to name a few.

Clearly, his heart is all Raiders (always will be) and he wants to continue in the same capacity he has for years; but can’t we agree he simply doesn’t have the energy to perform at the same level he has in the past... let along compete with other fully-charged organizations?

Sure, we liked to give him a pat on the back and say, go for it Al, it will be ok, but when will enough be enough? Do we really have to wait until he's too ill or dead to see the kind of retrofit we need to compete long-term.

IMO, Davis should want to shepherd such an historic transition. Sadly, he will probably never know if and when it happens.

I like Tom Cable and support him as HC 1000%. But, without a full-time, energized front office, Cable will have to perform at a significant disadvantage.

Yeah, I’m disappointed it turned out this way. You can be sure, I’ll be rooting for Coach Cable.

4:52 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>
And there's no hindsight needed to suggest that Al should have fired Kiffin. Most of us so-called IAAFers were getting pretty sick of the charade by the time the Combine unfolded.
>>>>


Ohhh... so I guess I was on an alternate universe Raider Take when everyone was so pissed at the thought of Kiffin being fired? That Al should just make things work because changing coaches every year never works. I do believe the posts are still here, NY.

Care to make some kind of wager that I can find over a dozen of them here NY???

Tell you what, $20 per post... you find all the posts demanding Al fire Kiffin before the season started, and I find the ones where Al should KEEP him.

Are you on???

I am sick of all the fucking lies and revisionist history here.

4:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How about you give me $20 for everyone who said the rumors were nothing but media lies.

I for one did NOT want Kiff fired,and said as much. I believe we should have given him 3 years. We should have allowed him to fire SOB. We definitely should have allowed him to hire his dad.

However if him and Al were going to put their petty feuds above the interest of the team then one of them had to go. This was the case therefore Al should have done it before the season.

You are sick of lies? You are the master of double speak and revisionist history.

Roy

4:59 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>
Raider Take said...

Not paranoid, still waiting...
>>>

What are you waiting for?

I can hardly get through your posts if the first thing you do is claim something applies to you that doesn't.

Do you want PROOF that I think Rathman is "average"?

How do you want me to prove my OPINION RT?

I am not sure where you are going with this Al firing Kiffin crap because it changes every post... and my recollection of the GM thing is you couldn't understand where I was going in asking for Al's bald faced lies. He said he was bringing in a GM. That may still happen.. so which one of us is right on that?

Is this a war of attrition RT?

5:01 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>
You are sick of lies? You are the master of double speak and revisionist history.
>>>


Oh really now?

When have I told a whopper like "most of us wanted Kiffin fired before the Combine?"

I don't even recall ANYONE wanting Kiffin fired until after the season started.

5:05 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Gary - mine is the second "guest take" down, below Raiderrealist's.

http://tinyurl.com/det4tr

Thanks to RT, I made my position quite public back in Feb 2008, and there is an entire thread of agreement to can Kiffin or mend all differences.

When can I expect the money, smart ass. You're all talk and no walk.

5:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You said people called Al a bald faced liar?

And this last quote "most of us wanted "Kiffin fired before the combine"
This is also a lie, or rather a distortion. This is NOT what NY Raider wrote. He wrote "most of us were getting pretty sick of the charade." You twist a few words to completely change the meaning and then act as if you didn't. And then demand to know why people said what they didn't.

If you go back and look at old posts people here were pissed off and tired of the BS. The only people that weren't upset were the Al apologists.

Roy

5:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

*crickets*

Roy

5:43 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

So NY, you yourself said he should fire Kiffin... That is ONE post.

I scrolled down a bit and didn't see anyone else jumping in with this. Sure there were plenty of people blaming Al... but I didn't see ONE other person say YEA... AL SHOULD FIRE KIFFIN!!! How far do you want me to scroll?

OTOH, I am sure I can find a coupla dozen of people screaming that we should KEEP Kiffin when the rumor first got started.

Are you sure you want to go here?

And Roy... let me get this straight... you just got done pounding your fists in saying Al meant something he didn't actually say, so I do the same thing (NY MEANT that he should be fired before the Combine, duh) could you PLEASE make up your mind here?

Which is it? Are we going by what someone exactly SAID, or what they meant?

You can't switch back and forth at your whim.

5:45 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

Halfway through the notestream NY, and the only other person that has even HINTED that he should be fired at that time was CJ, and that was with the caveat that if Al isn't going to publicly back his coach, he should "cut bait". So even with this, we are at two.

How far do you want me to scroll down NY?

6:01 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

Well NY, I went through that entire notestream and found just your original post calling for Kiffin to be fired, and Calico kinda saying it.

Most of the rest of the talk was on if the rumors at the time were true, people pissed because SOB wasn't fired, and discussions almost eerily akin to the current discussions about IAAFers and people pissed because they don't like to be called gloom and doomers... lol. Looks like things don't change much in Take-land!!!

The same gloom and doomers are still finding it hard for hope anywhere, and the same glass-fullers are embracing hope.

What a difference a few more wins a year would make!

7:11 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Gary - I read numerous posts on that thread that were in agreement with my take, and at least one or two outright “fire Kiffin.”

I also read this gem from you:

“And what kind of moron would think that Al wouldn't have ALREADY fired Kiffin's ass the second he was sick of him?”

I guess the answer to that question is quite obvious now. (Gary, that’s your cue to raise your hand.)

You are quickly losing credibility. It's time for you to stop calling out others and make your case for why you think Al Davis is doing such a wonderful job and, at age 80 with his failing health, can continue to perform all the functions for which he refuses to hire his own replacements.

For all the abuse you shovel on the rest of us, I think we deserve at least some effort on your part to state your case.

7:22 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Notice how Gary still won't respond.

7:26 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

He's probably still surfing that thread to find some damning evidence (in his mind). Then, he’ll come back here and post a half dozen obscure passages from it to prove his point (in his mind).

I guess simple observation and rationalization take on many forms.

Like you often point out RT, we live in a world where 2+2 doesn’t always equal 4.

7:45 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

I haven't really had time to keep up with the posts.

I notice some discussion about whether Davis should have fired Kiffin. I agree with Kiffin's firing, and I said so right after the opening game of the season. It appeared to me that Kiffin did not even come close to preparing his team to play - ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL. Then Kiffin came out and blamed SOB and Davis, and I had enough.

Should Kiffin have been fired in the off season? Probably he should have been, but I think there was more to Al's decision than just insuring that the firing was "for cause." I think that Al, too, realizes that the team needs continuity (one of the reasons he made Cable permanent). I believe him when he said that he felt that he might get Kiffin to rise to the occasion, but Kiffin seemed intent on getting fired. Once Kiffin was determined to get fired, what choice did Al have? And, yes, I understand that Kiffin was Al's hire in the first place. Everybody has regrets.

As for whether Al should have fired SOB and hired Kiffin's dad. Davis couldn't even talk to Kiffin, Sr. until this off season. To do otherwise would be to tamper, which carries stiff fines and penalties. As I said before, if Kiffin had said to Davis something other than "I want my daddy!" Davis might have gone along.

As for keeping Rathman, there isn't much you can do if someone doesn't want to stay. Davis said very clearly that Rathman was asked to stay, but he wanted to return to the team where he found his greatness. Say for instance that Jim Plunkett turned into a great QB coach - employed by the 49ers. Would you not understand if Plunkett told the 9ers that Oakland has an opening and he'd like to go there? I think we give both Davis and Rathman a pass on that one.

7:49 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Oh, and as for Davis repeatedly calling Kiffin a liar, I'd say that is primarily (but not entirely) directed at Kiffin's claim that he was not courting Arkansas right after being hired by the Raiders.

The word is that Davis got the information that Kiffin was courting Arkansas on good authority. He was told by Jerry Jones, who is Arkansas alumni AND on the athletics board for that school. He would have been directly notified of Kiffin's interest. Kiffin seemed to forget that Davis has more friends in the football universe than Kiffin does - both college and the pros.

7:56 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Blanda, the whole Rathman thing is understandable for all involved.

What I don't get is Gary savaging me for suggesting that Rathman was good coach who would be missed. Go back and look at the comments. You'd have thought I'd suggested re-hiring Tom Walsh. How could I possibly lament losing such a mediocre underachiever?

So now when Mr. Davis himself says that he would have liked to keep Rathman, it becomes relevant to this board.

7:58 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

RT... you guys are going to have to stop challenging me to look for things, because gosh durn it, I'm just anal enough to go do it.

Here is EXACTLY how I "savaged" poor old RT about Rathman:


...quote...
RT... what is it about Rathman that you are so convinced he is a great coach?

Maybe he's the dude making our offense revolve around FARGAS the last two years? I dunno... if we are losing a guy that had our RB's over achieving, I'd buy it... but our RB's have looked pretty ordinary to me at best, and UNDERachieving at worst.


So unless you see something I am missing, it appears you are simply whining about something that you are inventing as evidence that Al is making horrible mistakes right now. Losing the ST'd coach is MUCH better evidence, because he did a great job... but explain to me why you are so upset about losing Rathman. I'm very curious.


...end quote...


I feel so SAVAGE! That was quite the brow beating!!

8:56 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

Oh, and I closed the tab with the thread, but RT tried to use losing Rathman as evidence that CABLE wasn't up to the job.. which might have been what set me off a bit... I don't remember.

I will gladly go get the quote RT, if you want to call me on it.

Blanda, the assertion is that many people here thought that Kiffin should have been fired BEFORE the season was even close to beginning. I think most of us here agreed that he should be fired after the season started.

9:06 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>
Raider Take said...

Notice how Gary still won't respond.
>>>

JFC. what are you guys? 13 years old? I don't sit here hitting refresh all fucking night... I DO have a few better things to do with my life occasionally folks.

Jesus.

I was actually in the other room doing some airbrush painting, if you gots to know.

9:10 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
nyraider said...

Gary - I read numerous posts on that thread that were in agreement with my take, and at least one or two outright “fire Kiffin.”
>>>>


I noticed that you didn't post them though.

You highlight the words, and right click and push "copy"... etc.

And here's you assertion:

...quote...

Most of us so-called IAAFers were getting pretty sick of the charade by the time the Combine unfolded.


...end quote...




So now its one or two? I thought you said "most"?

Or are we going back to what was meant to be said, not what actually was said now? Its hard to follow along what the rules are.

9:18 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Still waiting...

9:20 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>
You are quickly losing credibility. It's time for you to stop calling out others and make your case for why you think Al Davis is doing such a wonderful job [...]
>>>


Speaking of credibility, where have I suggested this lately. I am as upset as anyone as the blunders Al made this last season... I even documented them today in the Seattle NG because someone there asked my opinion of Al.

Hell, even RT noticed I have been bagging on him too.

Get your ducks in a row just a bit every once in awhile NY.

And FWIW, the IAAFers were mostly correct last year about the rumors and such... I was wrong. Al was a complete grease fire, but still a year later... all is not lost. At least not in my mind... gawd that pisses you off, doesn't it NY???

9:25 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>
Raider Take said...

Still waiting...
>>>


I didn't realize I was dealing with a 7th grader that started a Raider website during his study halls.

What EXACTLY are you waiting for, Little Boy?

The Rathman thing only makes you look like a petulant girl, so what are you waiting for?

9:29 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Tick, tock...

I repeat:

Gary, I'm still awaiting your responses to all of the following points, which were courteously and specifically extended to you in response to your own points:
___________

You said I was panicking, lying, making things up, etc. as if there were no basis to my expressions of disappointment.

You have been yelling at me for weeks for observing following, yet it's all confirmed to be true:

-No competent executives were hired to help with the assembly of the coaching staff. Check.

-The pool of head coaching candidates was unnecessarily slim. Check.

-Poor head coaching hires and a lack of competent executive input are the root of our current woes, so to proceed in this process without fresh executive input and without exploring more head coaching candidates is reckless, given where this approach has gotten us over the past several years. Check.

-Winning is no longer the top priority. Check (see Mr. Davis's comments about choosing dollars over coaching with regard to firing Lane Kiffin).

-Tom Rathman is a good coach. Check (see Mr. Davis's comments).
__________

Gary, so you've been yelling at me and calling me IAAF when you agree with much of what I've been saying all along? That's pretty weird, dude.

Based on what I just said above, outlining my specific points of disappointment, where do we disagree?

When folks are yelling at you, calling you IAAF, liar, panicker, etc., it's easy to conclude that they think you have no right (not in the 1st Amendment sense, but in the conversational sense) to the opinions in question.

You ask: "I just wanted to know how you knew that Al wasn't going to hire a GM-type person?"

Honestly, Gary. I said he HADN'T hired a GM type, not that he WON'T. As of today, he still HASN'T, but he MIGHT (someday...).

My disappointment was based on facts, not conjecture.
____________

Regarding Rathman, my opinion that he was a good coach (not a "mediocre" one, as you said) is equally valid. So we argued about it. Now Mr. Davis himself says that he regrets losing Rathman. So either Rathman is a good coach, or Mr. Davis regrets losing a mediocre coach. So what's your point?

9:36 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

i thought one of al davis' stranger comments during the pc, was, he is not concerned over jamarcus russell's lack of work ethic.

davis pointed out that, back in the 70's, of course, ken stabler did not work hard away from field, but was a winner none the less.

but it seems to me that, back in the day, most players showed up to camp out of shape.
football was not a 24/7, 365 day thing back in the 1970's.

things are very different today. and russell, by not keeping pace, puts himself, and the team, at a disadvantage.

again, another example where davis applies 1970's thinking to today's vastly different NfL environment.

9:37 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Oh, and to keep the record straight, my Rathman question was in direct response to your comments, Gary:

________

My main point was that I thought our RB's underachieved more than anything.. and that most of our improvements were due to the o-line and the new ZBS... not Rathman.

I still think those are VALID points. If you are not keen on having valid points brought up here RT (its irrelevant HOW the points are brought up) then that again is a YOU problem.
___________

Talk about crying!

9:41 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

Ok... this is silly season again.

RT apparently has some burr up his ass about something he thinks I am ignoring... which I guess shouldn't surprise me considering he thought it was "savage" to suggest he was inventing reasons to blame Al.

I am leaving now RT. You and your little buddies can type "crickets" and stuff until morning but it doesn't mean I am ignoring it.. I simply went to bed.

Is that ok, my instant-gratification friend?

9:41 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Wow, so you're quitting?

You pepper me with comments and questions, I respond specifically to those comments and questions seven hours ago...And, well, you're right...

Crickets.

9:45 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

What most of the heated debates boils down to is whether or not a Raider fans have genuine, legitimate opinions to back up their displeasure and disappointment for the historical six year slide of ineptitude.

Why is hostility directed towards fans who have justifyable complaints about certain aspects of the organization?

Why is there so much sensitivity, enabling, and defensive postures taken whenever someone points out areas of concern specifically that involve Davis?

Why resort to namecalling when someone has a differing opinion?

Does anyone on this site honestly think that Davis (today, not 10 years ago) is capable of handling the dual roles of GM and owner? If so, I would love to hear your reasoning.

It is almost as if a realistic perspective is intolerable, unfathomable, and illegitimate to the folks who prefer to stick their head in the sand.

Thanks but no thanks. I like my coffee brewed strong, my eyes wide open, and grounded in reality instead of being comfortably numb and content with my favorite team buried in 2,4,and 5 win seasons.

10:08 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

RT:

If you haven't already figured it out yet ... let me clue you in to a little secret.

Gary won't respond to your specific questions or points of contention. Why won't he? The reasons are two fold.

#1 If he actually takes the time to read your points and responds he realizes that he would agree with most if not all of your specific points which paints him into a corner.

#2 It is far easier for him to run around and get off topic, hurl insults, name call than to actually offer legititmate counter points.

[crickets ... tick tock til' the end of time]

Finally, it must really agitate Gary that folks like myself, you, Raider00, NYRaider actually love, support, and root for the Raiders in spite of the dysfunction and crappy results the past six years.

10:29 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

What a shame...

With all the positive and constructive things that can be discussed this board is preoccupied with this total irevelent "Crap"...

New Name Suggestions...

"Raider Crap"...

"Daily Smear"...

"Support your "Mediot"..."Bash Al" Day...

"He Said -n- I Said"...

"All Is Lost"..."Abandon Ship"...

"Sensitive Issues"...

Don't Miss-Quote Me....

And a few someones here accuse Al of being "Childish"....This has got to be the definition of "Childishness"...

"Thank god and GrayHound I'm gone"...

Well...Ok...I miss quoted...It's really Amtrak-n-EVA Air....Gone none the less...

What a blessing it is not to understand the entire language and not to understand the pitiful little "Squibble Squabbles" that are being voiced around me...."Oh! But Wait!...They have a culture of respect...

Gosh golly whiz...They don't bash the elderly do they...So there's hope after all...I may not be "Bashed" in my old age by young punks that ain't worthy to wash my fucking jock....

Did anyone think to break-down the new coaches and what they bring to the table...Well I started it but got NO follow-up so here it comes again....

"Football Talk 101"....



Marshall was elevated to the defensive coordinator position prior to the 2005 season. His defense led the NFL with 50 sacks, allowed only one 100-yard rusher, finished second in the NFL in red zone defense (40.4%) and rushing touchdowns allowed (5) en route to a berth in Super Bowl XL.

Now that's a whole hell of alot more than we ever got out of "SOB"...Not even close...

Coupled with what "H" just reported I like this hire...

CoachCable...Overall in my opinion...

Talk like a "MAN" not some young punk out to make a name for himself...Speaks about commitment from player to player and than goes out and shows commitment coach to coach as he asks the elder coaches who he hired and Al Davis...

"Teach me what you know"....

Now in my book that's huge...Damn Huge....Not an egomaniac but a coach who surrounds himself with a great deal of experience and than is willing to draw upon that experience....That Brothers speaks very loud to me and I think to the players as well....Now I understand why our players started to perform at the end of the season with nothing to gain or play for except the game itself...Love of the Game and Raider luv for each other as a team...That's something we have not had for a long long time...

Cable's "O"....

Quick timing routs and deep timing routs that Air Coreal was known for and he brings in his understudy as his "Passing Game Coordinator" both to teach this to the players and to him as "HC"...He realizes his limitations...

"OL-ZBS" that's strong in the running game but may be somewhat suspect in pass protehtion...However...With quick timing routs and deep timing routs the "OL" does not need to hold their blocks as long...

By the time the "WR" makes his cut the ball is already in the air..."DB"s are still playing the man and have little play on the ball as they react to the cut not to the ball...When they see the cut they want to check the "QB"...That split-second that they take a eye of the "WR" gives separation as the "WR" already has possession and is turning up-field....

Power-n-Speed rushing as is characteristic of the "ZBS"...Incorporate "Play-Action" to stall the rush...Pump the ball to an unintended "WR" to distract the "DB"s....

Cable desires to be unpredictable and so his team will have many faces along with his trade-mark "Razle-Dazle" trickery....

I'm loving what I see here brothers...It's about time...

PantyRaider...BlogSite Police Chief!!!/_

Thanks For The Promotion NYRaider....

12:12 PM

PantyRaider...Follow-Up Please!!!/_

10:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Calico Jack

Your right on the MONEY with the fan banter. We are ALL Raider Nation and have different views of the same Drama. The TRUTH is plain and simple, The Raiders do NOT have good management! The losses for the last 6 seasons lie in the lap of DAVIS himself. I love the Raiders and Wish "Basic Cable" the best and that he makes the changes that put us on top. I hope Im wrong with all this but...." The proof is in the Puddin"
We shall see.....As far as being a fan......Anyone on a site like this or others that Represent is a Raider Fan.......Enough is Enough!
Raider Greg

10:35 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

CalicoJack...

You said and I agree two fold...

Why is there so much sensitivity, enabling, and defensive postures taken whenever someone points out areas of concern specifically that involve Davis?

OR...Openly support Al Davis with respect despite a few mistakes that he may have made on his own or with outside help....

A huge problem here is that you somehow expect Al Davis to be some sort of "god" or something...Able to control the minds-n-actions of others...But if he uses those powers "god damn him"....

Where is the reasoning ability to note that despite Al's attempts to get Lance to do his job he refused to comply...Where is the reasoning ability to realize that at a time of almost certain death in his family Al was dependant upon the front office and "HC" to work together for the betterment of the team but to his dismay they entered the holy "Mole-War" and caused a total melt-down...

Al took the necessary actions did he not...He fired their damn dumb asses...What the fuck did you expect...He could crawl up inside their heads and see it coming...He should have been able to "Hoke-Poky" and make them work together...

Totally fucking un-real...So now should I borrow Gary's scissors and go back and copy-post every time someone called me names as a result of my continued support of the "Old Man"...Not a chance...I don't have those "Sensitive Issues"...You do...But as I have stated repeatedly...

I will not be a part of this total disrespectful Al Davis "Bashing-Party"....

CalicoJack said...

Does anyone on this site honestly think that Davis (today, not 10 years ago) is capable of handling the dual roles of GM and owner? If so, I would love to hear your reasoning.


YES...

Look the fuck around...He's doing it isn't he...

He made a good signing of Gibril Wilson and drafting of "McFab" did he not...I don't have time to list his achievements at this time but I guess I will now have to...right...Because you can't view anything from a positive position when it comes to Al Davis as "Owner/MGP"....

PantyRaider....What a Totally Screwed=Up Perspective!!!/_

10:55 PM  
Blogger H said...

Blanda,

You haven’t missed much, just your basic pissing contest.

Bama,

So, you are saying Al Davis’ decision making process and Cable’s authority are subject to the Laws of Physics. According to your wording you were making a statement of FACT. You did not say it in a way that could be interpreted as your opinion. I just wanted to know who your source was or were you actually at the meetings. And you are wrong, I see the sun coming up and I say “Another day in paradise”.

As for Helen Keller, thanks for the compliment she is one of the great people in history. Read her full bio sometime. She was blind, deaf and mute (only to the extent her deafness didn’t allow her to properly learn how to talk) and overcame more obstacles in her life than most of us would encounter in three lifetimes, and without the aid of some federal government program. She knew the sun came up because she could feel it on her face. She could probably tell if a .45 was loaded by the weight.

-------------------------
Al Davis stated in the news conference that Cable made all the hires. He also stated he didn’t agree with all of them, but he thinks it to be a hell of a staff. If he didn’t agree with some of them how did they get hired? Because, as we all know Davis does all the interviewing and all the hiring and no one has input. How do we resolve this dichotomy?

And, Kiffin is still shooting his mouth off with the press. He basically accused Urban Myer of cheating. He has since been required to retract the statement and apologize because the NCAA rule he referenced DOES NOT EXIST. And late? I think he was hired in December. Nick Saban was hired late (January) and pulled in a top ten class. Urban Meyer came in and won a championship with someone else’s recruits, then one with his own. If Kiffin thinks coaching for Al Davis was tough, just wait until he is 7-5 in his second or third season, especially after what Saban and Meyer have done and what Huston Nutt did at Ole Miss this season. Oh yeah, he was out recruited by South Carolina too.

With respect to the waiting to fire Kiffin until after the season started. The statements quoted on this site are from Jerry MacDonald, one of our favorites here. One thing no one is mentioning is Al Davis actually gave MacDonald a complement in the after press conference mingling. Alluded to actually reading his blog and said maybe we should bring this Jerry guy in. And Jerry is not always complementary to Big Al. So, evidently Al can take criticism.

I’ve assisted on a couple of firings for “cause”. In today’s litigious society, and we all know Al will go to court at the drop of a hat, you have to have proper documentation. Conduct detrimental to the team is fairly ambiguous, hence the letter to cease and desist. When he didn’t Al had cause. Now, you can say Al set him up, but when you believe someone is leaking information against orders or acting in a manner that is not in compliance with company policy, then you have to first warn them in writing with a witness. After that if they continue to act in the same way, you have “cause”. Kiffin continues to run off at the mouth with the press and I’m not sure the administration at UT is very happy about the Urban Meyer cheating comment.

Roy, dull scissors hurt more you shouldn’t have sharpened them.

H

6:12 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

I'm not sure why the notion that "Al Davis didn't hire the whole staff" is such a hot topic.

Personally, I never suggested that Al Davis hired the staff. I suggested the opposite.

My stated concern was with Cable's ability to find a top-flight staff from top to bottom. That's still a concern, but maybe this staff will work out, we'll see.

6:59 AM  
Blogger H said...

Take,

The statement was not pointed to you. But, it has been insinuated both here and in the press that that is the case. Just way too many to name individually.

H

7:08 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

I hear you. You just reminded me that I needed to clarify, because that point is coming up a lot, and I don't want to get stabbed by any scissors.

7:12 AM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

PR:

We have a different opinion about whether or not Al Davis is capable of handling the dual roles of both GM and Owner. No biggie.

To further clarify my opinion ...

I know he is "doing" the jobs of both GM and Owner. The real questions are these:

1. Is he doing a good job?

Based on the past six years, No.

2. At 79 going on 80, is it realistic, sane, or plausible that Davis has the energy, time, focus required to handle BOTH demanding roles?

No. No one in the NFL is able to handle the dual roles of GM/Owner and quite frankly, I don't get why all the posters making excuses for Al should take issue with this point.

Honestly, what is so wrong with Davis getting the executive support he needs and deserves to achieve success once again?

7:36 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

"Al Davis stated in the news conference that Cable made all the hires."

Maybe, but I find it difficult to believe that Cable would make such an obscure contact as former Raider Lionel Washington (in GB).

I certainly can’t say for sure, but Davis also choked on those words when asked what input the other HC candidate had in coaching hires while the HC job was still a two-horse race.

A brilliant follow-up question I might add.

7:56 AM  
Anonymous Raided Nate 75 said...

CJ, to put it in more perspective, let's name all the NFL owners who take on the dual role of Owner/GM outside of Al Davis:

Jerry Jones-Dallas Cowboys
Mike Brown-Cincinnati Bengals
Dan Snyder-Washington Redskins
Ralph Wilson Jr-Buffalo Bills

7:56 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Nate - those owners are under tremendous pressures, just like Davis.

Jones and Davis, though, are like peas in a pod. These guys have some of the strongest branding in the NFL, and they're both watching their storied teams go down the tubes while each is at the helm, respectively. My guess is their strong branding is about all that keeps them afloat.

8:35 AM  
Blogger H said...

Health tip when running with scissors. Be sure to sterilize them first. If there’s no isopropyl alcohol available bourbon or rum (especially 150 proof) will do. In case of an accident you don’t want to get an infection on top of an open wound.

H

8:37 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Is Cable capable of putting together his own staff? He's been around the league several years, so I think he knows who the players and coaches are, and what their talents are. He at least knows as much as Kiffin when Kiffin joined the NFL. Also, Cable was at the Senior Bowl where coaches go, looking for contracts. I would imagine that Cable spoke to many people, and the ones we heard about were the ones sent back to Oakland to interview with Al.

I also imagine that Davis received suggestions from Gilbride, since Gilbride was apparently being considered up until the last couple of weeks. Remember that Al said he was ready to name Cable last week but didn't want to interfer with the Super Bowl. The NFL itself made the pronouncement that no team is to distract from Super Bowl week. Also note, that the coaching staff hires, Tollner and Marshall, weren't made until Cable had the job.

As for Kiffin, right now, the big thing that I heard was Kiffin was flapping his gums, bragging that Tennessee has spent more money this season on its coaching staff than any team in the conference. That kind of statement doesn't go over too well when the economy is causing most universities to struggle. As a result, many in Tennessee are refering to Kiffin as a "spoiled brat."

Kiffin will go down as Al Davis' biggest mistake, and I think he'd acknowledge that.

9:01 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

Rt, I think I answered your questions, and your still acting like I didn't. What do you want me to do, go through line by line and type something after everyone of them?

Here, let me answer it again, so you can ignore it again and type "crickets" like a 13 year old.

I don't even consider you to be a IAAFer, so once again... I don't know why you are taking it so personally when I talk generally of IAAFers. I agree with you that Al needs a GM. Happy about that now? I thought we already went through this like ten times... what do you want me to say RT? I have no idea what you want me to say more about Rathman... we disagree. And Al thought he was a good coach... but obviously he couldn't keep him. So will the team fall apart because we lost a RB's coach? What do you want me to say RT?

If I am ignoring something... put it into something SPECIFIC I can reply to instead of a 300 word post.

I don't see you demand that anyone else respond line by line to anything here, so why are you doing it with me? Hell, I am the only on this site that even attempts to quote anything I am replying to... but replying line by line to 30 lines would take me 30 minutes of my time. Sorry... not going to happen, my friend.

And now Calico is following your lead and acting like everything I said in general about IAAFers applies specifically to him... Yippee!!

9:08 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
Senator McCarthy, er I mean, Gary... As a twenty year, card-carrying member of the IAAF crowd I must attest that RT has never been at one meeting. Nor has anyone else on this board. We have extended a membership to Roy who we think a decent fellow, but he has yet to accept our offer. Same for Calico & NY.
And Blanda, you wrote:
"It appeared to me that Kiffin did not even come close to preparing his team to play - ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL. Then Kiffin came out and blamed SOB and Davis, and I had enough"
I think trying to fire SOB was an attempt at preparing the team, no? Kiff wanted to fire SOB, plain and simple because SOB would not be his own man and run the D in a modern fashion. So Kiffin stood up to Al and it got ugly.
Kiffin had two choices: 1) allow Davis to keep running the antiquated systems and then get fired, or (2) roll the dice, stand up to him in a big way, and then get fired.
It was a hopeless sitaution, but at least we got to see one coach get fired for TRYING to change things as oppose to yet another coach getting fired because Al doesn't understand the game anymore. Personally, the "yes man" firings of Bugel, Shell & Turner were getting really boring.

9:28 AM  
Blogger H said...

This just in:

Todd Haley Is Chefs New Coach.

Now, someone please list me all the other hot qualified candidates that were brought in for interviews?

Because I haven't been able to find a single one.

H

9:32 AM  
Blogger H said...

Bama,

Al Davis is ultimately responsible for the last six years. I have always said that.

Now, the ultimate responsibility for preparing the team to play on Sunday rest with the head coach. Always has, always will.

Shanarat kept his job several years longer by blaming then firing coordinators. After several iterations of this process the owner said enough. Especially after the way Cable kicked his butt in that last Gelding game.

You still haven't named your source for your previous statement of fact. Do you still stand by it as fact?

H

9:44 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

I don't understand all of these comparisons with Pioli and the Chiefs.

Pioli has been money for years. He's money until he's not.

He could have hired a monkey over Haley for all I care. He's earned the benefit of the doubt.

Why should he change his approach when it has worked so well?

Why shouldn't we change our approach when it has failed so miserably?

9:50 AM  
Blogger H said...

Take,

My point is there has been a call for Al Davis to interview more candidates. I haven't even seen where the Chefs satisfied the Rooney rule. I have heard of zero other candidates.

If there is a list out there lets at least make sure one of our division rivals is in compliance with league rules. And Pioli jumped on a guy from a team that is 16-16 the last two years. They got hot in the playoffs after winning a very weak division with an 8-8 record. Plus, it was their defense that did most of the heavy lifting in the playoffs yet their OC gets the gig and he didn't do all the play calling this season.

Just doing due diligence.

H

10:25 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Bama- thanks for the invite. I've never been so on the fence as I've been these last couple years. I'll keep yopu posted.

H- Even if Pioli only interviewed one "A" list coach, that's one more than the Raiders. I agree with Take, Pioli is money until he proves otherwise.

10:26 AM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

an exerpt from nancy gay's article directly from the mouth of the devil himself. don't say i didn't tell you so BLANDA!

"Davis hemmed and hawed about ever sitting down with 49ers president Jed York and did everything but announce he will not renew the franchise's lease at the Oakland Coliseum when it expires after the 2010 season.

Davis was then asked pointedly where the Raiders will play in 2011.

"Well, I can't tell you that. That wouldn't be fair. Is somebody going to have a new stadium ready by then?" he responded."

THIS GUYS IS A F-ING A$$HOLE WHO'S GOING TO MOVE THIS TEAM AGAIN. YOU AL DAVIS APOLOGISTS OR WHATEVER YOU CALL YOURSELVES WHO KNEEL AND KISS HIS RING ARE CLUELESS!

10:36 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Well, I hope Pioli is screwing things up in KC, that's for sure.

I wouldn't put my $$ on it, though.

10:37 AM  
Blogger H said...

Wait a minute, I've got it now. Pioli interviewd Herm, then fired him. Genius, pure genius.

I wonder if that's the loop hole in the rule.

By the way, I'm not dinging anyone here. I just can't bring myself to say anything good about the Chefs.

Man, if you guys keep using all caps I'm going to have to take my hearing aids out before reading anything.

H

10:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

H,
Why are you comparing us to KC? I mean really is that the best you can come up with? KC hasn't sniffed a Super Bowl in more than 30 years. What's next a comparison with Detroit. This is a Raider blog, not a Chiefs blog. If it were we would have plenty of ammo for the way that franchise has been run into the ground.

Roy

10:42 AM  
Blogger H said...

Al holds the power in the stadium negotiations. He's not going to publicly state anything.

If the Yorkies want a stadium and the local government is pushing a joint venue, then York needs Al more than Al needs York.

But, I don't live out there so I don't have a dog in the fight. My preference is for them to stay in or very close to Oakland. It just sounds better "Oakland Raiders".

Hell, neither New York team plays in New York, Dallas doesn't play in Dallas and I think Washington doesn't play in DC anymore.

At least the Raiders played in Los Angeles, the Nutered Sheep played in Orange County.

Roy,

I didn't start the comparison. Some were talking about the hiring of Pioli as some great coup. I just used it as a chance to rag on the Chefs. If you can't say anything bad about your rival, well you know. I still don't know if they satisfied the Rooney Rule or not.

H

11:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

H, Yes they satisfied the Rooney rule, according to ESPN. It seems like it is time to retire the Rooney rule, IMHO.

Roy

11:42 AM  
Blogger H said...

Maybe, but I want to know who. Just who was in the running and was it tokenism?

Like I said, you have to rag on your rivals.

H

11:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

LOL!
Kiff already stepped on his own dick.

12:04 PM  
Blogger H said...

Quick comment on Lechler staying or going.

Let him go and draft the Florida State kicker in the fourth round. He handled KO, EP, FG and punts. He can start off punting and back up Jano. Plus he would probably come cheaper than Lechler.

H

12:19 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

what al davis said was, tom cable hired the staff, but davis also interviewed them to talk about money, and philosophy.

is this how we ended up with yet another vanilla DC, in john marshall ?

personally, i don't care about some minor asst. coaches.
quick, name the RB coach of the steelers ? have to look it up, right ?

i can also live with tom cable as HC, but i thought the key hire would be our DC.
and i think they blew it with marshall.

12:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My biggest problem with the coaching staff is Marshall and Tollner. These retreads really disappoint me. I believe in the philosophy that every coach on the staff should have head coach aspirations. These coordinators are career assistants without any real achievements save for 1 good year from Marshall.

I can already see our man coverage, four man rush (pressure not included) and no blitzing.

Roy

12:30 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Scorpio, you should know by now that context is not one of Nancy's strengths. Don't forget, Nancy is the one who announced that Kiffin was going to release every player on the Raiders roster who was older than he was. That's who you always choose as a source. Why do you do that?

Why don't you go and read the transcript of the press conference (widely available) and come to your own conclusions. Davis said, very clearly, the one to talk to about stadium issues is Amy Trask. Davis said he hasn't been following it, and that he's happy with where they play now.

The Raiders lease runs out in 2010. And you expect Davis to say exactly what he's going to do before hand. In other words, you want him to walk into negotiations with his pants down. Very bright, Scorpio. I'm in awe.

1:13 PM  
Blogger H said...

Roy,

A retread named Dick LeBeau just picked up a ring as DC for the Squelers. A retread named Bill Bilichick coaches the Patsies. A retread named Wade Philips ran the Dolts defense when they were 14-2 and a top ten defense.

Sometimes the best coordinators are the ones who have been around a bit. They've seen it all.

Is Marshall one of those? We shall see. I prefer to see what the results are. Remember two years ago his defense led the league in sacks.

H

2:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

H,
Are you serious? You are comparing Tollner and Marshall to Belichick and Dick LeBeau? The plot thickens.

OK, lets view your comparison.

Ted Tollners Career as a OC.
1989 OC SD rank 23rd
1990 OC SD rank 17th
1991 OC SD rank 21st
2004 OC SF rank 30th
2005 OC Detroit rank 28th

Mighty impressive! Now lets take a look at Marshall

1999 DC Car rank 26th
2000 DC Car rank 27th
2001 DC Car rank 31st
2006 DC Seat rank 19th
2007 DC Seat rank 15th
2008 DC Seat rank 30th

That's going to be tough to beat.

Let's see how LeBeau compares.

2004 DC Pitt rank 1st
2005 DC Pitt rank 4th
2006 DC Pitt rank 9th
2007 DC Pitt rank 1st
2008 DC Pitt rank 1st

This might be too close to call H. I am beginning to think you may be right...hmm just for shits and giggles lets examine Belichick. Now he hasn't been a coordinator since 1990 so we are going back awhile.

1985 DC Giants rank 2nd
1986 DC Giants rank 2nd
1987 DC Giants rank 7th
1988 DC Giants rank 11th
1989 DC Giants rank 5th
1990 DC Giants rank 2nd

Since then he has been either an assistant head coach or a head coach. Wow you may be right H, the similarities are striking!

Roy

2:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

H,
Let's not overlook the fact that Belichick and Lebeau have both been NFL head coaches. To be considered for an NFL head coach you have to be a dynamic coordinator. Now correct me if I am wrong but Tollner has never been a head coach college or pros. I believe the same could be said of Marshall although I am not sure about the college part with him.

Roy

2:56 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

CalicoJack...

What is the issue with waiting until Mr Davis is ready to hire that help...That's your problem...Your totally unable to wait...

The question was NOT if I believed help would be benificial it was if the "Old Man" can do it alone and the answer has to be...."YES"....Just open the eyes and look around and you will see he has and is...Now that's a "FACT" and the rest is just speculation and opinion....

Right Bro...

You don't have to like it...But what is up with all the negative energy wraped up in something that ain't changing instead of putting some positive energy into looking forward to the up-n-comming season...That's also your problem...

Right Bro...

I just hope the hell in "20" more years I can do as much at age "78" as what Al is doing now...That should be the focas now...Admiration for his ability to continue dispite the physical infermities....Kinda like that athelete who continues to play or fight beyound his prime...Something to be admired not something to "Bash"...

Did you also bash Ali...Forman...Karien Abdual Jabar...Alzado...Plunket...Gannon...Rice-n-Brown....

Just wondering...

Roy...

We don't have an "OC" we have a "Passing Game C"...Now can you see the differance...And the other guy is a "QBC" not an "OC" so how do you work so hard to compair "Fruits to Vegies"...

Regarding hiring "HC"s...Who else did "MuleHigh" interview...And he was hired without a "GM" by the owner...

Regarding the posible "GM" position for the Raiders it sound like Al wants to have it in the family and his son is not yet ready...Now is that so bad...

Is he presantly working with the team in the front office...

Well...I believe he is...

So could it be he is in fact helping old dad already...

Well...That certainly seams posible...

So than what the fuck is the big gripe....

Well....We just like to have something to cry about...

Oh!...Now I understand...

Is there anyone here who has a "Son" and would dream of having him take over for dad later in life...I think that's something natural in all us old dads...I know I would love it but my son has too much of a mind of his own at age 35 so like Al I will just have to wait...He is just not ready...

PantyRaider...Old Men Rule!!!/_

3:03 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Here is something worth considering at this point in time...A quick look lets us know Baltimore has several top-notch "D" players available as "FA"s and will not be able to retain them all...Which one should we go after 1st...2nd....3rd...


http://gnb.scout.com/a.z?s=61&p=9
&c=12&yr=2009&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16

PantyRaider...Help's On The Way!!!/_

3:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Panty,
Fret not. I believe when you are 78 you will probably be terrible at your job too. =)

Roy

3:15 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

PantyRaider- you want Al to keep doing the work of ten men because why exactly? And I believe Al said himself that Mark doesn't understand the football operation. So what exactly should we expect from Mark?

Maybe you're ok with a wing and prayer, but some of us are more than a little concerned that Tom Cable will be coaching at a severe disadvantage - without a fully staffed and charged front office.

From what I've read, you offer no reasoning beyond, well, he's Al Davis. Actually, that might have worked for me a couple years ago.

Also, I wouldn't start shopping free agents. The Raiders have serious cap issues.

3:27 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Let's be clear about what we heard at the press conference regarding Tollner and Marshall. As Cable said, "I hired the coaches that I thought would help us get to the playoffs at every position. The timeline isn't the issue, folks. The issue is, we did the right thing for the Oakland Raiders to move forward, to be a playoff team and to find that success that we all deserve."

It was also said that these people were brought aboard for their ability to TEACH. Just the kind of thing you need from a very young team. We don't have a lot of stars willing to take youngsters under their wing to teach them the ropes here.

That's been one of our problems since Shell II. Cable himself was more successful than Shell and Kiffin because of HIS ability to teach. More established coaches in set systems would not necessarily be right for this team. That is, of course, unless they have a desire to get back into teaching.

Can you look at our players over the last two seasons and say that these guys have nothing to learn?

I don't know if Cable will get these guys to a Super Bowl, but he'll get them off the floor, I guarantee it.

3:46 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

BlandaRocked,

i agree with you that it is important for coaches to teach young players.
i think that is very true for our offense.

but on defense, most of the players have been around a few years already.

and wouldn't it be nice to have an aggressive DC for a change to teach a new attacking style of defense to the raiders players.

instead it's ol' vanilla john marshall, with the same old, tired defense philosophy that has been a flopping failure in oakland for years now.

3:58 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

How nice would it have been to just swap Ryans?

Even just inviting Rex Ryan for an interview would have given a different taste to this off-season. Was Marshall actually the only DC candidate the Raiders interviewed?

4:26 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

NYRaider....

"Ten Men"...Maybe 10 boys but way off with the 10 men shit...

I'm "58" and most likely understand the effects of growing older much better than a "30" something...I can garentee you there are several "70-80" year olds who will totally kick your young ass with what they have had time to learn...

Your problem is you have a very poor inpression of the "Old"...

Oh! Ya!...I forgot where I put my scizzors...Oh!..There they are...While a slight amout of drule slides down my chin...

Ha! Ha!....By the way...My wife turned "17" Nov 10th "09"...All 4' 9" of her...And I have NO problem keeping up....

PantyRaider...Going Home!!!/_

4:40 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Nov 10th "08"

4:41 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

It's very interesting that folks have been saying that Davis should let the HC find his own assistants, but nobody likes Cable's picks. So I guess the idea is "anybody but Al or Cable."

Maybe we here should make the selections?

The word on Marshall is that he knows all of the defenses, and knows them well. He was brought in to add a few wrinkles. Also, don't forget that Cable has been a defensive coach as well, and there were Cable induced changes to SOB's defense. For starters, dumping Hall!

I think I'll reserve my final opinions until I see what these guys can do as a unit. Don't forget that is very much a part of a successful team - how the coaches work with each other as an overall unit. Isn't that why people were saying that the HC should make his own picks?

5:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blanda,
We are pissed because the only type of coaches who are willing to work in Oakland are the Ted Tollner's and John Marshall's.

This is because they know Al is going to be micro-managing them, and no good coach wants that. This is a very unimpressive start to Cables regime. That being said, I want Cable to win and I like Cable. When Kiff hire him I was pumped up because I knew we would be able to run the ball.

Roy

5:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Roy,
Please define what you mean by "type of coach".

-moshbucket

6:06 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Roy, how can you speak for the coaches in the NFL? I haven't heard from a single coach that they wouldn't coach in Oakland because of Al. I've heard that from a few in the media who hate Al with a passion, but nowhere else. It's never been backed up by a coach (that I know of).

You didn't see a parade of coaches run through Alemeda because Cable talked to a lot of them at the Senior Bowl. And specifically Cable was looking for coaches who can teach. There are some dynamite coaches in the NFL who don't have to teach because their rosters are full of seasoned veterans with a good understanding of a system in place. If you put them in a position where they have to teach, their teams don't progress or improve.

Shell's big problem was bringing in Hall of Fame players who didn't have any ability to teach. That's why we all thought Gallery was a bust. Cable taught him, and now, at least according to JMac, he'd likely be a Pro Bowl consideration if the Raiders were winning.

Don't underestimate the people who Cable has brought in just because they haven't been in winning programs. It seems to me that Cable had very specific ideas on what he wanted, and went out and got it. He didn't just accept the ones who were willing to waste their careers in Oakland while waiting for Al to die. That's media spin, and not really facts.

I think we owe it Cable to give him the chance to show that he's right.

6:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

By type of coach I mean coaches with no record of achievement. No head coaching experience, no head coaching options and coaches with records like this:

Ted Tollners Career as a OC.
1989 OC SD rank 23rd
1990 OC SD rank 17th
1991 OC SD rank 21st
2004 OC SF rank 30th
2005 OC Detroit rank 28th

John Marshall
1999 DC Car rank 26th
2000 DC Car rank 27th
2001 DC Car rank 31st
2006 DC Seat rank 19th
2007 DC Seat rank 15th
2008 DC Seat rank 30th

Hope that clarifies!

Roy

6:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Surely you jest Blanda!

Roy

6:14 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

PantyRaider- that's it? We're supposed to believe that just being "older" makes someone wiser? That's your explanation?

And there's no need to generalize what you think my impression is of old people. We're speaking specifically about one man that continues to do the jobs of several.

My central question is when is enough, enough? Your answer seems to be, whenever he says it's enough. Unfortunately, that answer, while sadly true, has nothing to do with winning football games.

6:40 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

"I haven't heard from a single coach that they wouldn't coach in Oakland because of Al."

What, suddenly the cone of silence has been lifted and we are all knowing?

Come on fellas. Let's not pretend that Davis is everyone's first choice. I seem to remember at least a couple recent snubs by the likes of Ken Wisenhunt, Bobby Petrino, as well as others before them. Clearly, you can add Mike Shanahan, Lane Kiffin and probably Jon Gruden to that list... whether you like those choices or not.

6:50 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Oh yeah, Steve Sarkisian and Jason Garrett come to mind. I'm sure we could keep adding to this list.

6:56 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

RaiderNate said:

"CJ, to put it in more perspective, let's name all the NFL owners who take on the dual role of Owner/GM outside of Al Davis:

Jerry Jones-Dallas Cowboys
Mike Brown-Cincinnati Bengals
Dan Snyder-Washington Redskins
Ralph Wilson Jr-Buffalo Bills"

True and false.

True in that the examples of teams above don't have a separate "GM".

False in that these teams have significant executives playing key roles.

Cincinnati:
* Owner/President: Mike Brown
* Sr. VP of Player Personnel: Pete Brown
* VP of Player Personnel: Paul Brown
* Director of Football Operations: Jim Lippincott
* Director of Player Personnel: Duke Tobin

Washington:
* Owner/CEO: Daniel Snyder
* Executive VP of Football Ops: Vinny Cerato
* VP of Football Admin: Eric Shaffer
* Director of Player Personnel: Scott Campbell
* Director of Pro Personnel: Mirocco Brown

Buffalo:
* Owner/President: Ralph Wilson
* VP of Pro Personnel: John Guy
* VP of College Scouting: Tom Modrak
* Sr. VP of Football Admin: Jim Querrorf

Dallas:
* Owner/President: Jerry Jones
* Executive VP/COO: Stephen Jones
* Director of College and Pro Scouting: Tom Ciskowski
* Asst. Director of Pro Scouting: Judd Garrett

As for the Raiders;
* Managing General Partner: Al Davis (read as Owner/GM)
* Sr. Personnel Executive: Rich Snead (Have you ever heard of this guy...heard this guy speak?)
* Director of College Scouting: Jon Kingdon

That is it. The entire point that many of us have been trying to make is that the Raiders need to bolster their front office to meet the demands of the ultra competitive NFL.

It doesn't really matter what the job title is ... whether it is "GM", "VP of Player Personnel", "Director of Football Operations", "VP of Football Admin" etc.

What matters is that the team needs another 'football executive' to help with the assembling of a coaching staff, aiding the evaluations of free agents, helping to provide input for the draft.

PR:

For the record, I sincerely admire Al Davis for many reasons. He is a big reason I became a Raider fan in the early 70's. Here are just a few reasons that I admire Davis:

* He is largely responsible for 3SB championships and 5SB appearances

* I admire his passion for professional football, his HOF career, his achievements as a scout, coach, head coach, GM, commissioner

* His pioneering spirit in scouting small black colleges, hiring the 1st African American HC, 1st Latino HC, 1st female CEO in major sports.

* I admire his football knowledge.

* I admire his role in secruing the last CBA

* I admire all the nice things he has done to help former Raiders who have fallen on hard times.

Fast forward to the present:

* I'm disappointed in Davis for not having the foresight and leadership to put our house back in order.

* I'm disappointed in Davis because it is ridiculous to think that any man 79 years old is capable of handling the VERY demanding roles of GM and Owner.

* I'm disappointed in Davis for allowing his legacy to be tarnished by the previous six years.

* I'm disappointed in Davis for not having the ability to adapt and change to fit the current circumstances of the NFL.

7:23 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

look, the raiders HC search was a very simple process.

it came down to cable, or gilbride.
moss was interviewed to satisfy the rooney rule, and al was prolly doing an ex raider a favor.

so for all the "silence" and time taken, this was not an extensive search at all.

as for vanilla john marshall, as roy points out, the man has quite a long history as a Dc in the league.
it is very underwhelming.

should we ignore this ? is marshall suddenly going to change ?

we can hope, but given the raiders recent history of playing same passive defense, no matter who HC is, it don't look good.

7:32 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>

John Marshall
1999 DC Car rank 26th
2000 DC Car rank 27th
2001 DC Car rank 31st
2006 DC Seat rank 19th
2007 DC Seat rank 15th
2008 DC Seat rank 30th
>>>


Interesting that anyone would leave off 2005, when his defense was one of the best in the NFL and he came a few plays from winning a SB ring.

Could you be more disingenuous?

8:04 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>

Let him go and draft the Florida State kicker in the fourth round. He handled KO, EP, FG and punts. He can start off punting and back up Jano. Plus he would probably come cheaper than Lechler.
>>>

Now THIS is finally something constructive.

We had one of the best punters in the NFL for the entire time we were the WORST team in the NFL.

Conclusion: Punters are not very important in regards to W/L's.

Al would be better off spending money elsewhere.

8:18 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

Gary,

i actually agree with you on this.

no one has done more to hurt the hall of fame chances of ray guy than shane lechler.

lechler proves you can have a great punter, but still be a terrible team, so, how important can the punter be ?

about marshall though. one great season in a very long career.
why should this excite us ?

8:44 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Gary, Marshall was not DC for the Seahawks during the 2005 season.

You have a habit of this.

According to the Seahawks site: "John Marshall joined the Seahawks’ defensive coaching staff on February 12, 2003, as linebackers coach, while taking over coordinating duties before the 2006 season."

He did fill in for Ray Rhodes briefly in 2005 after Rhodes had a stroke. He didn't replace Rhodes as DC until 2006.

Please remember before you call people disingenuous, liar, etc.:

Google.com.

9:17 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Gary:

We all want Cable, Marshall, and Tollner to succeed.

I think the reason that some of us are more skeptical than others is based on the 3 primary coaches body of work.

It doesn't mean that each won't be successful individually or collectively. It just means that their past record of performance in their respective coaching areas (HC, OC, DC) has been less than scintillating.

This is a legitimate concern.

10:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gary,
As RT stated Marshall was not the DC in 2005. I am only counting his semi-recent coordinating career. Not how the coordinators he worked for did.

Roy

10:44 PM  
Blogger CutThroat said...

Nobody wants #200...So to get it out of the way...


Zap!...

12:43 AM  

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