Monday, January 26, 2009

Explanations and Expectations

From today's news, regarding the current approach to assembling a coaching staff, which includes hiring assistants and interviewing coordinators without a head coach under contract: 

"We have very specific reasons for doing it this way," said senior executive John Herrera.

"When it's all done, there will be a very detailed explanation as to why we are moving the way we are. We're connecting the dots and we're doing things the right way.

"This is a very well-thought-out, reasoned game plan."

Well, I do look forward to the detailed explanation. I would consider it progress. I expect Herrera to keep his word. 

I was once told that to expect explanations from the Raiders was wrong and nasty and pointless, yet here they are, promising me an explanation. Guess it doesn't hurt to ask after all.

413 Comments:

Blogger nyraider said...

"We have very specific reasons for doing it this way."

That's easy to translate; it's Al Davis' way.

However, I will try to reserve further judgement until this amazing revelation takes place. I hope it's soon. The suspense is killing me.

The logic behind assembling your team from the waterboy up has got to be fascinating.

8:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Take,

I feel a little better hearing the statements from Herrera
Sure he's like Al's version of Baghdad Bob. But this statment is a bit more soothing than the standard denials.

I think Al is considering everyone he contacts for assistant positions for HC if they show any interest. i.e., open tryouts for HC, as Al stated.

Obviously Al is waiting until after the SB to interview a few folks.

I also think that Cable is totally onboard. Al has promised him a position (probably line coach, possibley OC?), but still has him as frontrunner as HC (JMHO)

Cable understands that it is due-dilligance to turn over the other stones before anointing anyone, and would rather be a line coach or coordinater than HC if Al can find someone for HC that Cable agrees is better qualified/fit for the position. Cable might even get 'assistant head coach' status.

-moshbucket

PS: This is in no way a endorsement of Al, so please spare the 400 line essay about how Al needs to go.

8:47 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

I'm with you Moshbucket, the promise of getting a reason to the rhyme is a positive sign.

8:51 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Well, Take, apparently the Raiders agree with you that their current method looks "suspect." Otherwise they would not bother with an explanation.

I'm almost prepared to believe that more has been offered Tom Cable than just HC. Remember that Cable said that HC of the Raiders is his "dream job." What Cable showed in his 12 games is the ability to cut through BS, and find ground to communicate with both his players and the owner, while maintaining credibility with both.

And that's really been the key, hasn't it. We haven't found an HC who can bridge that gap. And while Cable certainly showed "rust," for lack of a better word, at game planning and play calling, he certainly showed the ability to learn from his mistakes. He also showed the ability to recognize effort and improvement from key players and getting them to play together.

I don't think there is an agreement that if Cable isn't HC he'll be the O-Line coach again. I think he may well have been offered something more (which would cause him to work his ass off without a contract). It may be a "coach for a couple of years, and then move upstairs" approach.

11:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Madden is being brought in as a GM and Cable will be named Head Coach. Al Davis hasn't named him head coach yet since it allows him to interview OC and DCs for the HC position without needing permission from thier current teams.

11:47 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

I'd like to add that I've always been of the opinion that the best HCs should probably come from O-Line coaches. The reason for that is that an O-Line coach's job is not just to coach individuals and make them better, but get five to six men acting in complete coordination and unity.

11:49 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Very, very asstute observation regarding bringing coaches to interview for HC (a promotion) so they don't need permission from their team, Anno. That's the kind of drive by I like to see.

Who was that masked man? I forgot to thank him.

11:52 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Anon, I don't know about Madden, but the other part would be crazy like a fox, eh?

As for Herrera's promise of communication and explanation, it's about time the Raiders listened to me, eh!?

;)

11:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Communication from the Raiders is in the same catergory as Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. I'll believe it when I see it.

BTW love Raider Take, keep up the good work!

12:00 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Tooth fairy? Anon is on fire today. Same anon?

Thanks for your feedback, much appreciated.

12:01 PM  
Anonymous Raided Nate 75 said...

I wouldn't hold my breath for that "explanation". The only way I see us getting a "detailed" explanation after the fact, would be if there is a GM in place that has been giving "counsel" to Al, but is not under contract with the Raiders, and could compromise his/her current position.

Otherwise, I look forward to it being, "our hiring process is what it is, and this is the road we chose to go down from the beginning" smoke we've heard in the recent past.

Right now I'm taking it as, "Everything is fine here in Raider land, even though we've been bombshelled, the bombing is intentional, and we will explain after all hazardous material have been cleaned."

12:03 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Herrera wouldn't let me down, would he? He's a man of his word, right?

Call me a tooth fairy believer, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and look forward to the details. I've got an itch to be optimistic today.

12:06 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Doesn't seem like Herrera would offer a regognition that things don't look right while actually preparing to say nothing addressing that situation. Why simply create more criticism?

If there is going to be an explanation that is forthcoming, we are most likely to see it JMac's or Jones' column. Keep an eye out. However, I wouldn't expect to hear anything until after a team is in place.

12:18 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I'd also like to be optimistic “today.” However, the Raiders’ explanation will almost have to be off the charts to at least point us in a direction other than "business as usual."

I think we've pretty much accepted the fact that Cable will have a significant role, so his appointment as HC will be pretty anticlimactic at this juncture.

Blanda - I have to agree with you that Cable helps close the gap of communication, but this gap should have never existed - and wouldn't have with a competent GM in place.

12:30 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

You mean there's no tooth fairy? Wahhh!

12:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No way on Madden. That said, I said no way on Moss also, but that's a different scenario.

John's heart couldn't take it.
He quit coaching for health reasons. Now he's been eating Tur-Duck-in's for years.....

But you never know. With medical advancements, we might see Darth Madden still on the sidelines decades from now, on his 4th artificial heart, with Al the Emperor still up in the Booth, bionic legs and all, with a clone of Jim Otto in the seat infront of him.

You no, it just dawned on me that Otto wasn't in the box this year :-(

-Moshbucket

12:43 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

What Ano has said makes a lot of sense. According to David White, two sources on the Raiders said that as far as they can tell, Cable is the choice, but they don't really know why no announcement has been made other than Al wants to interview everyone on his list first.

Apparently only a few are in on the secret. That would be Al, Herrera and Cable.

If you can put yourself in a position where you've already interviewed your latteral hires, you don't have to be part of the herd interviewing them when their contract is expiring and their current team is giving them permission to talk to others. All you have to do is schedule them to come in for the job offer and press conference. That is certainly a way of hitting the ground running. That would actually put the Raiders ahead of the pack rather than behind it. I mean, talk about due dilligence.

And Ano isn't as crazy as he sounds regarding Madden. Madden has said, I think around the time that Shell II was hired, that he would consider coming back to work for the Raiders in the front office once he left the broadcast booth. He said at the time that he had no use for permanent retirement.

Consider, also, that Davis didn't specifically say a GM. He said a football guy from the Bay Area who he couldn't currently discuss because of contractual commitments.

Also consider that Madden talks to Davis all the time, and might be talking to him now. I don't think Davis would name Madden GM because Madden doesn't have that backgound, but a position that would put him in charge of personnel and scouting I can absolutely see. One of the problems with Madden is that he doesn't fly, but he loves that bus. I can see him having an office on the bus and traveling around the country on scouting assignments.

I'm not saying it's going to happen, and I kind to tend to doubt it, but the suggestion is not as far out as it sounds on the surface.

1:06 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Here's another thought regarding the Madden theory. I backs up a lot of us here, even those who disagree.

1. I've said that Davis DOES respect an HC's desire for individual player personnel. So it is reasonable to believe that Madden was responsible for the majority of the players brought in while he was HC.

2. Scorpio has maintained that the beginning of the Raider demise was the middle of the 1980s. That's when the last of the Madden nucleus retired.

3. Many have maintained that Davis has lost his touch in terms of aquiring the kinds of players we had in the 1970s. Maybe he never had the touch. Maybe it was Madden's. Davis has always been great at recognizing talent, but Madden has always been better at identifying attitude.

There's a lot more if you think about it that this would explain.

2:48 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Wow...What a transformation....Do I detect "Positive Energy" around "RT" now-a-dazs....

BlandaRocked...

You are tickling my ears and they like that...Keep it coming Bro...

CalicoJack....

Regarding (1):

So you don't believe Davis needs any help as far as the responsibilities of GM? Really?

The question was about firing the "GM" not whether he could use some help...That was discussed in another question and I left it up to the "GM" to determine what help and when....

So now am I to understand that we can put away the endless flogging of the Raiders for not conforming to the accepted structure of most other NFL teams....If so that will greatly narrow our differences...

I have heard no one state that Al never made mistakes or that having help would not benefit him...The only gap is as to what extent the help is needed...Where...When....

That makes it much easier to develop a conversation of constructive criticism that is not just more "Bash Al day" celebrations...

Progress has been made...Evidently...

Anno....

Interesting....A few weeks ago I posted my desire for a "GM" as John Madden...Saying could we posibly do any better and that every player Vet-or-Rookie would be willing to sit down and talk with the man and that would also include almost all coaching candidates...

Is there another football man out there who is as well informed as Madden..."Tuna"....Davis....I think that pretty much tops any known list....All of them "OLD" men by the way....

Davis....1929...Earth Snake...
Madden...1936...Fire Rat......
"Tuna"...1941...Metal Snake...

PantyRaider....The Circle of Elders!!!!

Look Out...They Bite!!!!

4:13 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Read the following and see if anything could or should be applied to Al Davis-n-"Tuna"...It's amazing...

People born in the year of the snake are considered mysterious, grant, wise and enchanting. He or she can become an Ambassador, a Mediator or a talented musician. Such a person is a thinker who also likes to live well; affluence. The Snake person loves books, music, clothes, fine food and wine; but with all their fondness for the finer things in life, their innate grace and elegance gives them a dislike for frivolities, small minds and foolish talk.

Some Snakes may have a slow or lazy way of speaking but this does not reflect in any way their speed of deduction or action. It's just that they like to ponder things, to assess and formulate their views properly. Generally speaking, Snakes tend to be very careful about what they say.

Snake people like communicating, particularly interesting and challenging conversations; if the conversation becomes repetitive their attention may soon wander. It is almost impossible to fix their attention for long talking about mundane everyday habits as they prefer to focus on new, interesting and evolutionary ideas in general. The Snake needs mental exercise. And yet at the same time, they view their associates with a certain distrust. They will never forgive anyone who breaks a promise. They are also prone to being neurotic, even paranoid, where pet fears and suspicions are concerned. Once offended, however, Snakes will always seek revenge.

These people have a special talent that enables them to judge situations correctly. They are alert to new possibilities: when they have an idea of what to do and how to do it, they will pursue it persistently and energetically. The Snake is at home in any social situation, able to adapt and converse on all levels. In Chinese astrology it is believed that they are self-confident, driven, intelligent, headstrong, focused and willing to listen to someone else's opinion, but not necessarily willing take it 'on board'. They treasure their their ability to look at a problem from a variety of angles is extremely useful. When faced with a dilemma, Snake people, as a rule, act with speed and conviction, since they believe intensely in what they are doing and rarely waste time or energy on projects lacking in good potential.

PantyRaider...Iron Tiger!!!/_

4:20 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

Crazy thought I am just going to toss out here:

Cable as GM, and someone else as HC.

4:27 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_(zodiac)

Funny how it fits me to a tee...

PantyRaider....Iron Tiger!!!/_

4:28 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Blanda = Water Snake

4:28 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

And thanx all for more positive energy!!!

4:28 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

One more Madden thought...

Madden has always said that if he were in deep, deep trouble and all he was given was one phone call to make, that phone call would be to Al Davis.

Maybe Al feels the same way.

4:40 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

4:46 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

BlandaRocked....Water Snake...

Was that about you or George Blanda..1927...Fire Rabit...

4:52 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Panty, I'm the Water Snake.

Here's another thought about Madden, and it fits in with Davis' apparent slow movement.

Madden is under contract with NBC until at least after Super Bowl week. If there were any announcement about Madden now, if one were coming, that would discredit Madden from football commentary regarding the NFL. His point of view would obviously be biased, even though the Raiders aren't participating in the post season. Davis couldn't make any announcement until after Sunday at least.

If you suppose that Davis has made his "one phone call" to Madden, it could very possibly be that Madden has said, "hold off on hiring your OC or DC until after the Super Bowl, because I have some ideas of my own."

This a lot of fun to think about. I have to think of a way to avoid disappointment if it doesn't happen, because I don't think it will. Nothing is ever that sweet.

5:12 PM  
Anonymous memdf said...

Madden?
So let me get this straight, a perpetually meddling 79 year old, power mad owner who can't get around anymore, and who's last six plans have gotten his team 11 losses per year, hires a GM who is
73, will only travel by bus and was last on a football field in 1978.

As for the secret plan, Nixon also had a secret plan to end the Vietnam war and was re-elected so anything is possible.

RT sorry, no one is buying your tickets.....

5:45 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

memdf, thanks for the daily dose of negativity. I was worried we wouldn't get one today.

6:08 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Art Shell for head coach to complete the trifecta!

6:16 PM  
Blogger H said...

The Madden thing may not be overly far fetched. It is rumored that he is considering retirement. His permanent home is in the bay area which would fit with the news conference comments.

Madden is also well respected throughout the NFL and every player knows him. He understands current offenses, defenses and can still breakdown film.

The intrigue continues. Stay tuned for the next chapter.

H

6:18 PM  
Anonymous Arkansan Raider said...

Oh, RT STOP!

You know Art can't be HC again. Shoot no, Al's hiring him to be the press officer.

Heh. ;^)


---Jeff

6:22 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Plus, there is one last aspect. I figure that the cone of silence would come down hardest on any information regarding Madden re-joining the team. If that sort of thing got out before names were on a contract, and then it didn't happen - ouch!

And it does seem to me that the cone of silence this year is far more impenetrable than in the past.

6:28 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

I would absolutely love Madden rejoining the Raiders as an executive. Now there's a guy who Al trusts 100%, would be a tremendous asset, ambassador, communicator, partner, and bridge to building a team with true SB aspirations!

It really isn't that far fetched but I don't want to get my hopes up too high prior to the "cone of silence" being lifted.

[I just love the term "cone of silence" ... it sounds like an espionage term! :)]

More daydreaming ... this is my "dream team"

Executive: Madden

HC: Cable (in many ways, Cable's personality reminds me of Madden)

OC: Trestman (Saunders offense seems too complex for our group of kiddies ... 700 page playbook that Mark Brunnell had a difficult time absorbing)

DC: Dave McGinnis (love his passion and aggressive defensive philosophies)

QB: Jim Fassell (itching to get back on the field, coach, mentor, and work with his son John)

If/When the Raiders make a "detailed annoncement for what's going on in Alameda" it will be worth the price of admission. As T.O. would say "Get yer popcorn out"

The sheer intrigue, drama, suspense, comedy, tragedy possibilities are endless!

Calico Jack aka "The Wood Dragon circa Feb 1964"

7:29 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

I just hope that the Cone of Silence isn't later revealed to be just a Cornucopia of Confusion or a Load of Crap.

Raider Take, a.k.a The Golden Ferret

7:33 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

RaiderTake,

art shell for HC ??? hell, he's way to young.

it will have to be blanda.

that's george blanda, not blandarocked.

7:51 PM  
Anonymous memdf said...

Blanda-

You want negative - how's this?
2008 5 11
2007 4 12
2006 2 14
2005 4 12
2004 5 11
2003 4 12

Everyone set their watches to herrara time for the unveiling of the secret HC and THE PLAN that will, I am sure, send shivers down the spine of all afc west opponents and beyond...

7:52 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Dreams...Dreams....Dreams....

Wonderful aren't they...And with this rumor comes almost eternal hope...

"Raiders of the Lost Covenant"
Episode....
"John Madden and the Lost Connection"

Coming soon to a press conference near you....

PantyRaider....Pure Excitement!!!/_

8:36 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

BREAKING NEWS...

i know the secret plan.

even as we speak, al davis & john madden are searching for the fountain of youth.

once they find it, they will drink from it, and turn back the clock to 1970, and dominate the league again.

ponce de leon will be named raiders new GM.

see, al has a plan.

9:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

yea, the scenile potential is through the roof.

Madden also called Al his best friend.

It would be John and Al's bucket list.

-moshbucket

9:41 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

CJ... I really like that list.

And Madden does kinda make sense based on what Al said... plus he really wouldn't have to do any traveling if he didn't want to.

Are there REALLY Raider fans that would be against Madden being GM?

I'm sorry, but I really don't even know how to address such a thing.

That's just friggin messed up.

11:23 PM  
Blogger H said...

Calico,

Cone of Silence is an espionage term. Old TV show Get Smart. Way ahead of its time. They had cellular communications way before Star Trek. Agent 86 of Control.

With all the hoopla around the Super Bowl, now is not the time to make any announcments. Especially if it is Madden.

NBC is broadcasting the game. If you are going to retire from broadcasting, the Super Bowl would be the pinnacle from which to say good bye. Making a premature announcment would take away from the game and Madden, I believe, would not want anything to distract from the game on the field. However, if some enterprising reporter is monitoring this site, he may start asking some pointed questions. Keep your eyes and ears open boys and girls. The next installment of As the Eye Patch Turns, coming to a computer screen near you.

All blue sky conjucture but, it could be the reason for the delay.

Just my not so humble stinking opinion (JMNSHSO).

H

4:40 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Davis obviously instructed Herrera to make a statement that big plans will soon be announced, because Herrera can't go to the can without a hall pass.

I don't see John Madden coming back to the Raiders in any capacity. Why would he invite such a headache for himself?

Also, I don't see Al Davis sharing his ego with anyone. If bringing in Madden actually worked after six horrendous seasons since the SB, then Madden would get the credit, and Davis couldn't stomach that.

It's possible that Tom Cable will have some authority beyond HC, and maybe that's the big announcement. Maybe Davis is still searching for a HC because Cable will be his boss (not as GM, but executive assistant to the managing general partner - in other words, he’ll need a hall pass too).

4:41 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>

I don't see John Madden coming back to the Raiders in any capacity.
>>>>>


Well knock me over with a feather!

7:30 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Bring back Lester Hayes!

7:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hear you on Lester! Did he ever get his SB ring back? I thought someone found it and returned it?

I don't think Madden would ever do something like that during the superbowl. He would NEVER want to detract or draw atention away from the game itself.

I mean, he was near tears when he thanked Caughlin for playing the game instead of resting his guys against the Patsies the end of last year.

If he does retire after the SB, I would expect it earliest the next day.

As far as the cable delay, maybe Al wants some time to pass so Cable doesn't forever tie the passing of his father to getting the HC job? Al is definately a softy once you get inside.

-moshbucket

8:10 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

I was just prowling around the Raider website. They are very slow to update.

One of the things that stood out to me was the injured reserve list.

Our projected #2 WR never took the field during the regular season. After some issues during training camp, Kiffin used our projected #1 as little as possible, until he, too, made the IR list. Then the guy we picked up to replace our #2 wound up on the IR list as well. And with injuries, on and off, to McFadden and Fargas, and not having either our #1 or #2 FB for the entire season, we still won 3 of our last six.

We also lost McQ who was projected as a guard or RT. We lost Tyvon Branch, who I think might have had the talent to unseat Huff, or even play nickle. It will be interesting to see what both Miller and Branch bring to the table next season.

One thing I didn't know is that Cable has experience on both sides of the ball. He has been both an O-Line and a D-Line coach. That might just be why the Raider pass rush got better toward the end of the season.

It's good to remember these things as we go into next season. With all of the controversies it became a lost news story that the team was completely decimated by injuries.

9:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
Madden? At some point the raiders, and some fans, have to leave behind the seventies obsession... the player/coaches from that era, the player/scouts from that era, the freakin playbook from that era, the executives that started working for us back then and have hung on ever since, etc etc.
It's insanity to sit here and try to guess Al. Only fact we know for sure is:
No elite coach will come here under the current mgt.
That's it.
Can't wait to hear the great revelation... the future coach had best have his attorneys drawning up a fail-safe contract guaranteeing payment.

9:29 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Bama7, I don't quite understand why you think that anything that happened more than 10 years ago is irrelevant. The game has stayed pretty similar over the years, and everything old is new again. Some teams have even adopted a modified single wing on occasion. Strategies go back and forth as teams adjust.

The primary difference between the game now and the game then is the money involved, and how that money has changed the mind set of the players and coaches. It is that latter with which Davis has the most trouble. He is locked in to an era where players played primarily for the love of the game. Now it's "show me the money!" Most players attempt to earn it, but many don't.

I think to a large degree the Raider scouting department has the same problem. Most of the Raider scouting department are former players from the 70s and 80s.

However, you don't have that problem with Madden. He still talkes to players all over the league and understands what makes them tick. He certainly understands the influence of money, because he has plenty of his own at this point. This is why I think Madden would be such a valuable asset to player personnel and scouting.

I have heard it said many times that part of the disconnect between players and coaches (offered as an argument for paying coaches top dollar) is, on the players part, "why should I listen to this guy who makes one tenth of what I make?"

9:54 AM  
Blogger H said...

Don't dismiss the Madden thing too quickly. If Madden is tired of the travel, and he is serious about retiring I, for one, wouldn't be surprised.

And, Bama, unlike running a B&B Madden has stayed in football. He rose to the top of his profession by staying current. He understands the so called new offenses and defenses. He didn't sit in a studio catching a few plays from each game for the halftime show. He had to analyze an entire game live.

Madden and Davis are part of a mutual admiration society of two. They have great respect for each other.

Plus, Madden certainly won't need the pay. He could do it for fun.

And, here's something that is rarely reported. I used to get the Raider's media guide. Back in the day you could write to HQ and they would send you one free of charge. In those media guides they would always list front office personnel. For as long as I got them Madden was listed with a title of "Special Projects".

I'm sure, at first, Madden took a pay cut to get into broadcasting. Al probably kept him on the payroll as a reward for all that winning.

So don't discount the Madden thing. Remember, anything is possible except skiing through a revolving door.

H

9:55 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Backing you up, H. Madden made his fame as a coach by teaching iconoclast players how to play winning football together. He made his national fame teaching America how winning football is played. I would hazard to guess that much, if not most, of the football knowledge on this board was picked up by watching games where John Madden analyzed the game.

I think he likely has something to bring to the table.

10:15 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I’m starting to really believe in the “cone of silence” theory because there is no other explanation for the apparent inactivity.

From outside the cone of silence looking in, a month has gone by since the season ended and no GM nor football exec help has surfaced, and only two marginal candidates for HC (aside from Cable who has to be a lock for the job based on his competition) have been interviewed. The only activity includes random hiring of position coaches and assistants.

This 2006 look-a-like off-season can’t be for real, can it? Raider fans are just getting “punked,” right?

12:02 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

The funny thing about the cone of silence from the old "Get Smart" series, was that everyone outside of the cone knew exactly what was being said. The two spies talking underneath the cone couldn't hear each other at all.

We'll find out soon enough if life immitates art, or art immitates life.

12:25 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

If there was ever a theme for the Raiders in 2009, it's definitely "Get Smart."

1:41 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

BlandaRocked....

Regarding the "IR" list...

I may be wrong but it appeared to me that players were put on the list with injuries which could have made them available a little later in the season...I supposed it to be Kiffin totally screwing Al and the team on his way out the door or some of the little things he used to provoke being fired....

Also when the #1 "WR" Walker had been in trouble and talked about returning it was Kiffin who talked him out of it saying he would have to give back all the signing bonus....Now why was that done...It would have been better to let him retire and get that money back in Al's pocket would it not....

Anno....

I think you are referring to Jim Plunkett's "SB" ring....It was stolen from his car in a "Booty-Bag" and not seen for some 15-20 years....Than a construction worker found the bag in some bushes and returned it to the Raiders who identified it as Plunkett's ring...Worth alot of $$$-Cash but it was just given back...Nice Guys do exist....

PantyRaider....Pimping Madden!!!/_

2:51 PM  
Blogger H said...

I’m going to couch the Madden thing by saying it’s my wild assed guess. But, it does fulfill some of the parameter Al Davis let out in the news conference.

He stated they had some bay area connections; that certainly fits.

He also said he couldn’t name names because they were under contract. If he really had a specific person in mind, one could reasonably assume there had been some very preliminary discussions, yet no decision. If you add that to the equation it couldn’t be any exec currently under contract with any NFL team. Otherwise it would raise the whole specter of tampering.

Madden is under contract, but not with a team. He’s under contract with NBC. Had his name been leaked at that conference, teams could have refused to allow him to do the pre game interviews with players and coaches. That would have been embarrassing to the network and the league and would have been the major topic every Sunday night. Not what a guy like Madden would want.

Imagine, if you will, a single news conference introducing Tom Cable as head coach and John Madden as Vice President of Football Operations (GM) as a team.

One could also say this set of parameters could also fit Mike Holmgren. But, he would have been announced by now since he has retired as head coach. However, when he was handling the GM duties at the Seahags he wasn’t doing such a hot job.

I don’t think he is waiting for anyone under contract to the Red Chickens since this is the best season they have had since the 40’s and then there’s that Immaculate Deception thing with the Squealers.

H

2:57 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

One of the things presented to argue against Madden is that, in his 70s, he wouldn't be looking for a job that requires that much energy.

However Madden has said that he is uninterested in retirement. He said when he retired as HC his thought was that he'd be able to spend time with is family. The problem was that the kids had grown and his family no longer had time for him.

But I don't think that even if Madden became Vice President of Football Operations that he'd take the job alone. He likely knows some good young exectutives throughout the league that he'd bring in to learn those ropes, and just manage the position.

3:15 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

BlandaRocked...

One thing about it...There should be plenty of young executives who would love to learn the ropes from a men like Madden and Davis...No matter what is said by the "Mediot"s most players are eager to get a chance to sit down and talk football with Al Davis and the ones who got the opportunity come away speaking very well about it...Even DeAngelo Hall...

Also this might be a way in for some young executive that sees the future after Al has passed away...

PantyRaider...Futures For Sell!!!/_

3:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is this a joke? Madden? I'm with memdf on this one. I don't know the average age of the posters here, but I am guessing it is a littler older than I previously thought. I mean Madden? Really?

This is not the 1970's and football is completely different. Completely. Please no!

Roy

3:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

About Madden he was a coach more than 30 years ago and he has been a play by play guy since. Yes, he is calling plays for football but it stops there.

Can he work the salary cap?
Can he negotiate contracts?
Can he manage the exploding personalities of Al and super star players?
Does he have the energy to run a franchise?

How about focusing on someone NOT in their 70's?

Roy

3:49 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Here's a couple interesting comments (on topic) from a live chat posted on J-Mac's blog.

Qu: Jerry, What are the chances of Madden coming to Oaktown??

Ans: As anything other than a ceremonial job, I'd say not much. He's not going to be a GM, doing salary cap or evaluating players. He's in his 70s and isn't going to be working a GM's hours . . .

Qu: Why does Al Davis do things backwards,,, Names the head coach last, while picking all the assistants now,, Why doesn't the Raiders head coach have in put?

Ans: If Cable is the coach, he has had some input. He's been involved interviewing and giving suggestions. If Cable is not the coach, it's, well, it's ridiculous way to do things.

3:50 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Roy...

It's not the the game has passed the old timers buy...It's that the young have not caught up...

That's why we have so many more problem now than in the past...Youth is no-longer willing to listen and learn....They want everything now without having to pay their dues and earn it the way the old players did...."Show me the Money"...

So that's the only draw-back to bringing in a "Fossil" like Madden...But he has been good enough at communicating over the years to be able to work beyond that limitation so I say...."YES"...

Some fail like Ditka because they can't communicate with the youth...Others succeed like "Tuna"-n-Vermeil because they don't loose touch and have learned how to motivate the non-attentive....

PantyRaider...Just a Pup at "58"!!!/_

4:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No way Panty!
The coaches these days are getting younger every season. The hours these young guys put in are outrageous. They pay their dues in hours spent in the building. Coaching is 24/7 365 days a year, same with GMing.

Roy

4:04 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Roy....

It's not a situation of having to completely run the franchise....It's about helping Al Davis run it....

2 "70"s > 1....Or...We have a "151" Vacuum....

PantyRaider...Waisted on the Fumes!!!/_

4:06 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

If all the young coaches were paying dividends that would be worth quoting...But I don't believe they are...

4:09 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

To the kids, I mean people that wouldn't want Madden as GM... what exactly do you think his job would be? Going out during practice and helping with tackling drills or something? Drawing up plays?

The job of GM now would prolly be very similar to what is was 40 years ago... dealing with players, coaches, media, and the owner; giving input on football decisions.

Madden is one of the most well known faces in the NFL, and also one of the most respected. Why in the hell would anyone think he wouldn't be qualified to be GM???

This is unbelievable.

4:36 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

44-year-old Whisenhunt 1st yr "HC"..."AZ"...

Mike Tomlin 35 2nd yr "HC"...."Pitts"...

Now in the "SB"....

John Harbaugh 45 1st yr "HC" Ravens...

Jim Caldwell 53 1st yr "HC" Indy...
Tony Dungy was also older...

Tony Sparano 47 1st yr "HC" Miami...

Norv Turner "SD" Old and retread...

Jeff Fisher "50" Tenn....

John Fox old Carolina...

Brad Childress "52" Minnesota...

Tom Coughlin "62" Giants...

Andy Reid "50" Philly...

12 Play-Off coaches....Only one young "HC"...

What was your point....I missed it...

PantyRaider...Old Guys Rule!!!/_

4:39 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>
Some fail like Ditka because they can't communicate with the youth...
>>>>


These kids today grew up with Madden though, not just through his broadcasting, but his video game... prolly since they were old enough to hold a controller.

If Madden talked to these kids, I guarantee they would listen.


We are talking about one of the most well-known personalities in the NFL here folks... if you don't want him as GM.. WHO THE HELL DO YOU WANT????????

Crazy.

4:41 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Gary...

Evidently we are just the "Old" pimping the "Old"...

PantyRaider...."Old" Guys Rule!!!/_

4:46 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

Panty.. I could see this if we were pimping for Madden to be the HC or something. That would be crazy talk... but GM????


I couldn't think of a more perfect fit.. he has respect, he knows the media, Al trusts him, players would love him, the coaches would respect him, he's a straight shooter, he's already dealt with Al so he would know what he is getting into.

Seriously the down side is kids don't think he knows modern football? I think H or someone pointed it out... whats winning today is the exact same thing that was winning 40 years ago. Great QBing a great defenses.

I think Madden understands that.

5:04 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

BlandaRocked,

you don't think the game has changed much since the 1970's ?

take a look sunday. bill bidwell is in the super bowl, and al davis is a bottom feeder.

yeah, the game has changed. it's just that al davis and his inner circle of apologist havn't figure it out yet.

5:23 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Raider00....

"AZ" is in the "SB" with a "44" year old coach...Now what is he doing that is so different than what was done say "7" years ago when the Raiders-n-"TB" were in the "SB"....

He would have been "37" at the time and "TE" coach under Cohwer before becoming "OC" after 3 seasons....

Now "Pitt"s is also in the "SB"....What are they doing different and how different are the two teams...."AZ" has become "Pit"s NFCW....

I don't think you get it...You make statements but list nothing as evidence...Break down the teams "O"-n-"D" and show how they are so different than the teams of the past "SB"s if you want someone to listen....Otherwise it's just more "Anti" Raider Negativity....

PantyRaider....Talk Xs-n-Os!!!!/_

6:04 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Raider00, the game is always changing - back and forth!

A lot of the formations and the plays that are being touted as "brilliant new thinking" are simply rehashed from much earlier days.

My memory has failed, but what's the name of that "special" play that they have McFadden in at the QB spot? Well guess what... It's not new. It's a rehash from before you were born. It's the fing single wing (which my high school team was the last in the nation to run). McFadden doesn't line up as QB, he lines up at the position that used to be referred to as Tail Back. The center can direct snap to either the "Tail Back" or the "Running Back" (Half Back). Sometimes even the "blocking back," now known as the Full Back.

Get your head out your rear end. Everything good wasn't just invented in your lifetime.

6:16 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

Don't get me wrong.. I do think the game is much more complicated than it used to be, but I just can't figure out what that has to do with a GM.

I don't want Madden to be HC, DC, OC... just a GM. I think he'd do better at it than Tim Brown, who I also liked to help Al out... and what is TB, 35 years younger than Madden?

I can imagine the excitement of a possible draft pick or FA... "uhh, you are not going to believe this, but JOHN MADDEN is on the phone.. he wants you to be a Raider!!"

There is hardly a bigger name in football... ya don't think that carries clout?

6:28 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

For those worried that Madden wouldn't understand cap issues...

Don't worry. THERE IS NO CAP AFTER NEXT YEAR!!!

6:36 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Yes...1965/66 I played "HB" which would today be "RB"...

We played out of the "I" formation or the "T"...Not out of the "Y" or "Wish Bone"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formation_
(American_football)

PantyRaider....Old Times!!!/_

The "Wild Hog" is new as far as I can tell and even a few NFL teams tried it this year...Now of course the Raiders get "Bashed" because Coach Cable tried something creative and it failed....Right....But the ones who Bash are the same ones who complain the our game plan is "Ark-ache" or "Unimaginative"...

6:37 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Archaic....Spelling Corection...

6:49 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Panty, the Wild Hog is the one I'm talking about. That's the old Single Wing formation.

Tbis, my friends, is your brilliant new "Wild Hog" foration!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-wing

It's older than Rockne.

7:03 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

BlandaRocked,

oh, where to begin.

here is just one key area where the game is vastly different then the 1970's.

the size of players. art shell played his career at 275 lbs. not too many 0-linemen playing at that weight these days. across the board, 0-linemen are bigger, faster, and stronger.

that is why a 4 man rush is so hard to pull off anymore.
that is why so many teams apply pressure on the Qb by blitzing, and blitzing alot.

check out the super bowl sunday and you will see a team that has moved on from the 1970's, the steelers.

remember blanda, when the steelers had a great 4 man steel curtain ?
remember, greene, holmes, white and greenwood ?
great for it's time, but you just can't do this anymore.

so the steelers have moved into modern times instead.
they are a defense built on speed, and heavy doses of blitzing, and it is working great for them.

they could have stayed stuck in the past with you and al davis, but why do that when there are championships to be won.

so blanda, i'll make deal with you. i'll get my head out of my rear end, if you will get yours out of al davis'.

7:26 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

The job description and requirements for being the Raiders GM/executive:

(1) Be able to recruit personnel and coaches.

Madden: Check.

Madden is probably the most well known and loved football person in the universe. Who wouldn't pick up his calls and listen to what he has to say.

(2) Be able to work in harmony with Al Davis.

Madden: Check.

Madden has Davis complete trust which is a rare commodity to possess. Madden knows the Raiders culture. Madden knows what makes Al tick.

(3) Football knowledge

Madden: Check.

Madden has been immersed in football for 50 years or his entire adult life. It is a singular passion. To act like the game has passed him by is rather foolish.

(4) Knowledge of the league's players, coaches, and executives.

Madden: Check.

This guy has connections and personal relationships with the entire NFL.

(5) Be a line of communication/buffer/advisor between the coaching staff & players with Al.

Madden: Check.

I can't think of a single person whose personality is more suited to take on this very important role. Madden can crack a joke to lighten the mood or be a hardliner when necessary. He is a fair, reasonable man. The people he works with and for understand that about Madden. The mutual respect factor is big for Madden.

(6) Be the "face" and ambassador for the team as necessary.

Madden: Check.

The added bonus of a guy like Madden would be the improved media and fan relations. Who would you rather have representing the Raiders at a press conference or during Q & A's ... Madden or John "Bagdhad Bob" Herrera?

All the nitpicking about Madden's age, negotiating contracts, cap managment is irrelevant IMO. At age 71 he should have at least 5 solid years he could devote to putting the franchise in a better place.

7:46 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Raider 00:

I agree. The game has changed quite a bit from the 70's. It is more complex. Schemes are more varied and sophisticated. The players are bigger, faster, stronger, and more money hungry. Loyalty to the team has diminished with free agency. The game has become a 24/7/365 endeavor.

However to imply that a guy like Madden doesn't understand these changes falls on deaf ears. The basic core of the game remains the same. Stop the run, run the ball, create sacks, create turnovers, protect your QB, identify players with good charcter, work ethic who genuinely love the game not just the money, etc.

7:56 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

Calico,

john madden is a raider hero.

i would hate to see madden tarnish his image in a way that joe gibbs did, with an ill fated act 2.

al davis has done tremendous damage to his legacy, with all his half assed plans, and short sighted moves.

i am hoping that madden does not plan on following davis into the abyss.

because make no mistake, when you work for al davis these days, your job is to follow him down, down, down.

it's the very reason al davis cannot attracted the top coaching talent available today.

the reason why he is left to look backwards, while the rest of the league moves ahead.

hell, if the past is so great, why did parcell's hire saparano instead of bringing back don shula ?

8:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Read the Madden article. Having Madden come in would help elevate this franchise and be respected once again, even by the Meidiots……as Panty would say.

Madden has dinner with Al Davis at least once a week during the off season in Alameda. I know a local Sales Rep who's a Raiders’ fan. He’s told me that he’s seen Madden at this particular restaurant that Al loves. Al's there with his wife and Jon. So the ties that Madden has runs deep with Al and the Raiders. But who knows?

A few side notes: the Raiders are looking at vet. assist. DC John Marshall and vet. assist. LB C Mike Haluchak. Both guys have very, very extensive knowledge and experience. Don’t mind that at all.

With John Herrera promising some sort of stylized explanation for Al’s hiring process is not generating a pulse here with me. Seeing is believing. And the only thing I believe in is God.

As for the Raiders, I love them. But I am with Take on the one. I want to see some real progress. I don’t want published reports or Herrera blown’ smoke, or this……or even that. I want the TRUTH, before I start believing in Raiders.

Mr. Duva

8:41 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

CJ... your 7:46 post I found outstanding. You said what I wanted to say but twenty times better.

See, we don't always disagree... lol

Madden may not be the GM in a million years, but if he does become it, I think we will be now only a playoff team in two years, but a STRONG championship-caliber team (unless JRuss is a bust).


Look at how someone with Parcels clout turned a franchise around so quickly.

9:15 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

Gary,

yes, parcell's turned around miami quick, but he was not a slave to the narrow, "al davis/raider way".

john madden may have some new thoughts about football since the 1970's, but i doubt he would get to use them.

as soon as madden walks in the building, al will throw his walker aside, and jump right on the mans back.

9:26 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

I don't see how the Raiders with all the media hits in the last few years could afford to be telling any blatant lies right now. I DO expect some surprises soon. And I do expect them to make sense.

I am not religious at all... but I am hoping it has to do with Madden.


If its "Hey, we hired Cable, and oh BTW, Al is not hiring a GM" who are they going to have left in their corner?

No business can tell blatant premeditated bald-faced lies to their already panicking customers and get away with it.

Al didn't build a business worth nearly a half a billion dollars without having any business sense.

And sorry... he is not senile and crazy.

Al has SOMETHING up his sleeve here.

9:28 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

Raider OO.. I assume you not in yet on the positive energy bandwagon yet?

lol


Jesus dude... give Your ADDS a rest every once in awhile.

9:31 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>
I assume you not in yet on the positive energy bandwagon yet?
>>>


Holy crap, did I just type that? lol

9:32 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

remember the twilight zone episode with billy mumy ?

mumy controls the whole town, and everyone must think only "happy thoughts", or else mumy wishes them into the corn field.

one poor guy just wanted to play his perry como album, but mumy didn't go for it, and turns him into a jack-in-the box.

i feel like that every time i say something about al davis on this blog.

al davis, the man who in 6 years, has taken raiders from 2 wins to 5 wins...oops, i'm sorry gary..."think happy thoughts".

9:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kind of a collation on the past 90 or so comments:

1.) Rehash of what's been said before, but I agree with Blanda's comment about injuries decimating our year (coupled with the Lance Kiffin drama). Johnnie Lee Higgins was what, our fourth receiver during the preason(depending on where you put Curry.)

2.) Madden: I don't see Madden as being our GM. Frankly, I just don't think Madden has the stomach for such a labor intensive position at his age. However, I think it is possible that he may be involved in the front office in someway. Just without the title of GM. Head of personnel or something.

3.) Singlewing/Wild Hog: Didn't we run something similar with Marcus back in '84? I was only five, but I remember watching him throw the ball a few times.

4.) Optimism: I'm actually optimistic about the Raiders in '09. Give JRuss some stability, people to whom he can throw, and a solidified offensive line, and I'd like to see something happen. Frankly, I can't tell about the defense. I see sparks of talent, and I think somebody like Marshall could bring them together nicely in a post-SOB era (thank god Ryan's gone). Take - I'd buy your tickets. But I live in St. Louis.

Jolly Roger

10:42 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Raider00...

I guess I was always confused...I thought the "Steel Curtain" was the "OL" that protected Bradshaw...So much for thinking...

It was the "Curtain" that stopped anyone from getting to the "QB" not a curtain that got to the "QB"....But it was involved with the "QB" so that's half right...

All this talk about how the Raiders are in the "Dark Ages" and have not transformed....Then why were we AFCW champs for the 1st 3 seasons in this century and played in a "SB" "03"....Oh!...Now I understand...The "Dark Ages" were prior to "2004"...Only the past 6 seasons qualify as the "New Era" of NFL Football....

PantyRaider....New Era Inside-Out!!!/_

11:07 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Start preparing your Wish-List...

http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=
127&p=9&c=12&nid=83&lnid=83&yr=2009

Baltimore is set to lose big...

PantyRaider...."FA" Help Is On The Way!!!/_

11:46 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"WR" "FA"s are thin so look for the Raiders to go that way early in this draft....Position of need and position hard to fill will warrant it...

"D" is heavy this year so we should be able to find help...Also the list is fairly deep at "OT"...

PantyRaider....Go Madden!!!/_

11:52 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Blanda - no cap in 2010. So we should just set aside all fiscal responsibility and assume that another agreement will not get placed?

Gary said: "Al didn't build a business worth nearly a half a billion dollars without having any business sense."

I agree with the first part of that statement, however, increasing franchise values are inherent to the NFL and its popularity (TV contracts, advertising, etc), i.e., outside the immediate influences of the great Al Davis. The Lions are now worth more too.

Gary said: "And sorry... he is not senile and crazy." "Al has SOMETHING up his sleeve here."

Man, if I ever made a statement as hollow as that you guys would be all over me.

Stepping away from speculation and conjecture, the only thing we can be sure Al has "up his sleeve" is his arm.

4:32 AM  
Blogger H said...

Roy,

Madden is NOT the play by play. He is the color analyst. Michales calls the play. Madden tells you what happened, why it happened, why it worked or didn't work. Where the breakdowns occured. And, he has to keep up with all the top players. Ask youself this, why are many players clamoring more to be on the All Madden team than they are the Pro Bowl.

Also, Remember Super Bowl XV (1981). Dick Vermile coach of the loser Eagles left coaching to do COLLEGE football on TV. Was off the sidelines for about 17 years, came back to lead the Nutered Sheep to a win in Super Bowl XXXIV (2000).

I'll do the math, that's 19 years. Joe Gibbs actually got the Redskins back to the playoffs.

If Madden comes back to the Raiders, it won't be as coach. But, he will still be a wealth of knowledge on both strategy and personnel. He can bring in someone to do the cap crap for him.

And, yes the Wildcat/Wild Hog is a version of the old Single Wing. And no, we didn't run it with Marcus. He did throw some half back passes, but he did not get a direct snap. Back then a Raider QB never lined up in the shotgun.

One more yes, I'm an old guy. Al was still coach when I started watching them.

H

5:10 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

This is the kind of stuff I'd prefer to remember Al Davis for... and not for running his franchise into the ground.

http://tinyurl.com/b2b5sb

5:59 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>
Gary said: "And sorry... he is not senile and crazy." "Al has SOMETHING up his sleeve here."

Man, if I ever made a statement as hollow as that you guys would be all over me.
>>>>


Point to another instance where Al has a history of premeditated bald-faced lies... and saying a coach is not fired, and having him fired a few weeks later is not a lie.

Step it up for once NY... just ONCE back one of your tantrums up with something besides conjecture or wild guesses.

This I'd like to see... what premeditated bald-faced lie has Al told to the media.

7:48 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>
Frankly, I just don't think Madden has the stomach for such a labor intensive position at his age. However, I think it is possible that he may be involved in the front office in someway.
>>>>


I don't expect ANYONE to be hired as a "hard GM" until Al is willing to step away completely... so I agree. Madden would only help out with the things he would be good at... as a go-between player/coaches/owner, personnel/draft decisions, FA decisions... etc.

I'd assume the same people that have been doing the nuts and bolts duties such as capologist and contract negotiations since Lombardi was fired, would continue to do it.

7:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

100, Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Psycho

8:04 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

Raider 00... The records of a team from 2000 to 2006:

2000: 3-13
7-9
5-11
4-12
6-10
5-11
5-11


The team? Arizona Cardinals.

In case you haven't been paying attention considering your daily tantrums here, they are playing in this years SB after seasons of 8-8 and 9-7 since 2006.

Now tell me again that 6+ years of futility in the NFL is a guaranteed predictor of future futility, bubs.

8:06 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Gary, I'm not understanding your response to NYRaider. You reference a statement by him, but your rebuttal doesn't seem to match that statement. Just curious.

8:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

H,
Correct me if I am wrong, but the All Madden Team died out years ago.

Yes, correct Madden is the color guy but that does not translate into a GM.

The whole Madden drama seems to me that the Al crowd wants to double down on the 70's.

Panty,
Don't mistake my words, I am counting guys in there 50's as young. I am opposed to have 2 guys over 70 who had their heyday more than 30 years ago run our team. However, the Tuna who I would love, is a damn good GM and he is approaching 70.

Roy

8:43 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

I based my statement on the assumption that Al has never made such a premeditated bald-faced lie to the media... so I asked NY Raider to take time from his temper tantrums to point out where Al HAS made premeditated bald-faced lies to the media. I can't think of any besides broad generalizations things like "we will be back."

Sorry I wasn't clear.

And now for something that IS clear that all is lost.. we should all just give up!!!


In six years the Oakland Raiders have won 24 out of 96 games for a 25% winning percentage. An average of exactly 4 wins per season.

Before seasons of 8-8, and this years 9-7, the Arizona Cardinals won 35 games out of 112 in 7 seasons for a 31% winning percentage. An average of exactly 5 wins per season.

If only we had won one more game a year there would be a chance!!!

8:48 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
The whole Madden drama seems to me that the Al crowd wants to double down on the 70's.
>>>


No.. actually many of us have developed very long and detailed logic trails of why he would be PERFECT for the job, and the only response we get in return is "Gee, he is old."

8:52 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

The big piece of evidence I keep getting is that the game has changed so much because the players are bigger and faster. So what?

They are bigger and faster on all sides of the ball. Football strategy is still football strategy. Formations come and go in popularity, but they are the same formations, just named differently.

The game has NOT become more complex. In fact, it has become less so, and you have greater number of people making decisions on what plays to call and when.

Case in point. There used to be 10 more yards between the hash marks in the center of the field. No days, they are only as wide as the goal posts which make it far easier for a kicker to line up his kicks. In the old configuration, the offense had a distict advantage on the long side of the field because there was more territory. On the short side, the defense had the advantage with the aid of the sideline.

Part of the game's strategy in those days was to engineer field position to set up your advantage for a particular play at a particular moment. Plays were not only designed to go north and south, but also east to west so that you could create an advantage for north and south.

In the older days, the cross bar on the goal posts was directly over the goal line. This left the stand for the goal posts right in the middle of the end zone. Plays were designed to take advantage of that.

H, throw a few more in here. These kids are way lacking in their history lessons.

9:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OK, moving on from the he is old argument to substance. Here goes my objections.

1) Be able to recruit personnel and coaches.

Madden: Not likely

To pretend like bringing in Madden is suddenly going to put the Raiders at the top of elite coaches wish list is naïve at best. The elite coaches want to bring in their own front office personnel and won’t be fooled into thinking that just because Madden is the GM that Al will stop meddling. No elite coach wants to coach for a team that has his entire staff hired for him, even if Madden is the GM.

(2) Be able to work in harmony with Al Davis.

Madden: Check.

Yes, Madden and Al are great friends and I believe they would continue to be great friends. However, this has no bearing on winning, only on being able to coexist.

(3) Football knowledge

Madden: Not sure.

Madden has basic football knowledge, run the ball, pressure the QB and protect the QB. However, the way this is done now is completely different than when Madden (and Al) were in the game. And no, providing color does not work. If it did we would see successful franchises recruiting TV guys. Does he know what talent works best with a zone blitz D? Or does he come from the Al Davis school of man-to-man and absolutely no blitzing what so ever?

(4) Knowledge of the league's players, coaches, and executives.

Madden: Check.

This guy has connections and personal relationships with the entire NFL. Has no bearing on being a successful GM

(5) Be a line of communication/buffer/advisor between the coaching staff & players with Al.

Madden: Not sure.

Madden from everything we have seen over the last 20 years is a great guy and everybody loves him. How he will do when he has to play the bad guy? This we don’t know. How would he have handled the Kiffin saga? We don’t know. There is nothing that Madden has done over the past 20 years to even make this assumption, save for wishful thinking.

(6) Be the "face" and ambassador for the team as necessary.

Madden: Not sure.

Madden is a personable guy, but how will he deal with stonewalling the media? The Raiders aren’t going to suddenly morph into an open organization. Madden will have to be Herrera. He will have to tow the company line. This is much different from being everyones

Now look at the other responsibilities of a GM
Problem solving: No freaking idea, the guy has been in TV for more than 20 years.

Conflict resolution: Again no freaking idea. Anyone working with the Raiders better be able to do this. And just because he is a nice guy and Al and him are pals does not mean he is skilled at conflict resolution. He seems to be a person that wants everyone to like him and that he does not enjoy conflict, but again who knows.

Contract negotiation: No freaking idea, and this is a very important part of the job. The cap will be always be a factor. If the uncapped year goes ahead there will be a lockout.

Roy

9:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blanda,
Stop while your ahead. If you think the game is less complex now then that says more about you than it does about the game. Perhaps you like to kick back on the old recliner kicking back cold ones, not having to pay too close of attention to schemes and strategy. (For the record, I love kicking back cold ones on the couch watching football)It is a fact that the game has evolved into a much more difficult and complex game. To say other wise is just insane.

Roy

9:13 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Oh, and pointing out that Shell was 275 in his day. Where have you been? We are returning to lighter, faster O-Linemen to fit the zone blocking scheme.

Shanarat never had any trouble beating us until recently. He did it with lighter, faster linemen to suit his ZB system. Over the last couple of years he got away from that - and we started beating him!

Time to wake up and smell the coffee. As long as the game is played 11 on 11, the size of the field is the same, and the rules are relatively the same, it's the same game it always was. It doesn't matter that the WRs can run their routs faster, because the DBs can cover those routs faster as well.

9:19 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Roy, the biggest change ever undertaken by American style football was the forward pass. That happened well before anybody on this board was ever born.

The biggest change to occur in my lifetime is the reduction of time between plays. But that doesn't make the coaches have to think faster. Now they pre script several plays ahead, which reduces the complication - but it also has the effect of taking the team rythem out of a specific situation because the play on the field is no longer called by the QB to face that situation.

Yes, QB can audible, but audible rules have always been there, and the QB now audibles away from the play given by the coach to fit the situation. Name me ONE QB in this era, other than Payton Manning, who could successfully call an entire offensive game plan.

9:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blanda,
You said "Time to wake up and smell the coffee. As long as the game is played 11 on 11, the size of the field is the same, and the rules are relatively the same, it's the same game it always was."

That is the same Al Davis thinking that got us into this position.

Roy

9:30 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

No, Roy. The Al Davis position that got us into this was changing coaches four times in the last six years, and a failure (because of physical limitations) to keep his finger on the practice field and the locker room. That can happen in ANY era.

9:39 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>
The elite coaches want to bring in their own front office personnel and won’t be fooled into thinking that just because Madden is the GM that Al will stop meddling.
>>>>


And yet the St. Grudenites keep telling me that he took control away from Al, and that is the only reason they were good during the three year championship stretch.

What did Gruden/Allen have that Madden wouldn't?

9:43 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

Blanda, I think the consensus with most experts that I hear is that the game is much more complicated today... things like zone blocking, cover 2, zone blitzes.. I think we saw this with our struggles with Art Shell. He depended on every player to win 1 on 1 matchups, but we were playing against defenses that were designed to exploit 1 on 1 matchups.

That said, I still don't understand what that would have to do with the duties that Madden would be asked to do. I don't think he would be brought in to bring back his offensive schemes... if anyone thinks that, I dunno...

9:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well according to you Blanda the coaching doesn't matter. Football is only 11 on 11 and anyone who understands that can coach.

Roy

9:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
Blanda, Roy is right. Watch Al football the last 15 years and what you see is a caveman approach, pardon the pun. Al's theory has been, as you say Blanda, that "football hasn't changed... I'll line up superior athletes and play my old schemes against your zone blitzes, cover 2's and west coast offenses and every other new trick... and I'll still beat you becuase scheme is second to raw talent."
Well Blanda, Al is not winning. In fact we have been losing a lot of games in some of the ugliest fashion ever seen in the nfl. Who can forget the Shell part 2 season? That was what Roy was talking about. The entire year we went with a belief that our OL was stronger than the other team. We'll point to a spot where we want to run and dammnit, there we will gain yardage whether the defense likes it or not. We'll send our fleet WR's deep while our QB poses like Lamonica, 7 yards deep in the pocket, waiting an eternity for a cliff branch flashback TD. It never happened.
It's been like the horse cavalry versus tanks.
Football has changed.

9:57 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gary,
It is not just the game that has changed but the players and their egos and personalities. Can Madden navigate and manage these over inflated egos? Nothing he has done in the past 20 years says that he can.

Can he scout talent for a particular coaches scheme? Again an unknown. The schemes are completely different than we he coached therefore the scouting is different.

10:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

oops meant to sign Roy on previous post.

Roy

10:11 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Gary - perhaps you should go back and read my posts. I never called anyone a bald-faced liar. You're way off base.

As for backing up tantrums with something besides conjecture or wild guesses, maybe you should do, as PantyRaider says, a self-examination.

You want the facts, but you can't handle the facts.

Fact: the Raiders have the worst cumulative W-L record in the NFL since the beginning of 2003 (and that includes the Lions 0-16 run this year). So comparing them to anyone else is moot.

Fact: the Raiders now hold an NFL record for consecutive 11+ loss seasons (and counting).

Fact: five head coaches in six years.

Fact: the same inept DC for five years.

These and many other “facts” are just symptomatic of a much broader problem that you just don’t get.

What amazes me is that you believe the Raiders last six year run is just a string of bad luck or something.

Whatever. Perhaps in your random ranting posts you could extend me the courtesy of not making up shit that you think I wrote.

10:28 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Gary, Shell didn't lose because of his system. He lost because he hired coaches who couldn't coach. The whole O-Line coaching staff, to be precise.

We heard from Gallery that he had three coaches for the O-Line, and each one told him something different. All Gallery achieved during that year was confusion. Since we've had Cable, he's been fine.

10:41 AM  
Anonymous Raided Nate 75 said...

Panty said, "'WR' 'FAs' are thin so look for the Raiders to go that way early in this draft....Position of need and position hard to fill will warrant it..."

Panty, I think the only way we draft a WR is if Crabtree is available. By all indications, Seattle is going to take him. Maclin is a fraud, I would not waste the #7 pick on him; especially when there will be a better receiver available in the later rounds....Jarett Dillard (Rice).

Bama, you're dead on about the changes of the game and why we are where we are. Blanda, the basic schemes and strategy you speak of are still in place, yes; but they are the foundation to some of the schemes used today (zone blocking, screen passing, cover 2, blitzing schemes, audibles) to disguise the hot receiver route, or defensive coverage.

The change is that the 1-on-1 matchups are not known by the offense until the play develops. It is disguised with the zone formations, blitz packages, knowing the field and where your assignment lines up. The Offensive schemes (West Coast schemes, and even the hard-nosed running game develops the pass schemes) have changed to counter that.

Offensive schemes/plays are now designed to disguise the "hot route". The overall change in the game is that it has become more of a "Read-and-react" situation as the play unfolds. Where 15-20 years ago it was, we know the hot route, we know how defender will respond, and the counter was simplistic. Now, the basic offensive formation is called with basic routes in the huddle; and when the offense lines up (and as the QB calls out the play), specific codes are called out by the O-line Captain to signify specific assignments and blocking scheme. The QB then calls out the "codes" that define specific receiver routes, where the running game is going, etc. An audible is a reaction to the defense and what they do prior to the snap; and an audible usually is "we are going to counter with the basic play".

After the snap, the QB is reading how the play unfolds (which is why a lot of defenders read the QBs eyes), and he and the receivers know, if defender does this; the reaction is this. And he's watching the defender because he is going to have 5 or 6 options on that one receiver depending on the reaction of the defense.

That is something that wasn't around 15-20 years ago; and that is where Al's philosophy has killed us. He still drafts for one-on-one matchups; but he does not disguise those matchups.

We are seeing though, that the "spread" offense is a good attack against some of these defensive schemes because it puts 2+ offensive players in a certain zone; and the play is made on which one the defender goes after. This is what makes the Colts and the Cardinals offense effective.

A lot of modern offensive planning is "We will take what you give us." Whereas Al's philosophy is, "We will take what we want." Al wants to win the "lotto"; while the game has changed to a "Small change adds up" philosophy. Sure he'll get lucky, but he's not playing the odds, and he'll lose more in the end.

10:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blanda, What Cable brought was a NEW scheme. Shell failed miserably because he brought nothing but old ass 1970's schemes.

10:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

oops sorry meant to sign Roy...

10:53 AM  
Blogger H said...

Roy,

Yes, Madden did stop with the All Madden team. Two reasons. He only put players on it that he saw play. When he went to Monday then Sunday Night, the number of teams he saw went down. The All Madden Team has been replaced by the video game and players want to impress him so they can get on it. It's considerd an honor.

Blanda,

The driving force with all the supposed changes in the game are driven by rules changes. The movement of the hash marks and goal post were to help the offense and try to force more TD's. In fact, almost every rule change is designed to help offensive output.

The old halfback is now the tailback in an I formation because he is on the tail end of the I.

Kickoffs, because of folks like Jano have been moved back from the 40 to the thirty. I think at one time it was the 45.

You still have two tackles, two guards and a center with occasional two tight end formations.

For the last 35-40 years defensive formations have primarily been 3-4 or 4-3. Coverage is man or zone. The hot Tampa cover 2 is just a variation of the standard zone. It requires help over the top.

To me the biggest change is fullbacks don't carry the ball. Jim Brown was a fullback. Jim Taylor year in and year out had led the Cheezers in rushing with Paul Hourning his team mate. The other major change is kickers and punters are no longer position players.

These aren't real major changes.

Hell, one of the hot new offenses in college is run by Paul Johnson at Georgia Tech. It's just a variation of the wishbone which was just and inverted T formation.

The West Coast is just a variation of what Ken Stabler ran. We didn't go vertical that much because Fred Biletnikoff was the slowest starting wide out in the league and Stabler prefered to dink and dunk. Said it drove the defenses crazy when they couldn't stop it. When they came up close he went to Branch.

The Raiders have run both the 4-3 and the 3-4 with success.

There's an old addage, the more things change, the more they remain the same.

The main problem with coaches is they get locked in on just one of these variations and don't want to do anything else. The don't adjust.

H

10:55 AM  
Blogger H said...

By the way, glad to see you back Psycho. Figured you were lurking out there somewhere.

H

10:56 AM  
Blogger H said...

Nate,
---------
A lot of modern offensive planning is "We will take what you give us." Whereas Al's philosophy is, "We will take what we want."
--------

This is one of the basic myths about Raider football. See my prior comment on Stabler/Biletnikoff.

During his starting years Plunkett's primary receiver was Todd Christensen.

The one place where Al is the most stuborn is man coverage. He is absolutely enamored with corners that can play tight man coverage. To a fault.

H

11:08 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Roy....

What "HC" hires his own front office personnel...They my get their coaching staff but "Front Office"....The Front Office is who hires the coach....

NYRaider...

So we are the worst in history so we can't be compared to any other team in the NFL....What a conclusion...

So why can't you break away from your "6" year vision and make it a "10" year or "One Decade"....Probably because that wouldn't support your "HateTrip" for Al Davis...

"99".....8-8..
"2000"...13-6...Play-Offs...
"01".....11-7...Play-Offs...
"02".....13-6..."SB"....
"03".....4-12...
"04".....5-11...
"05".....4-12...
"06".....2-14...
"07".....4-12...
"08".....5-11...

65-99...66% winning record...

But please take any "Decade" with Al Davis and post the "#s...We are far from as bad as you desire to paint us...And by the way....If you look we went down slowly and bottomed out in "06" and are now slowly coming back up....

Play-Offs "09" Baby....

http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/
nfl/oakland/raiders.html

PantyRaider...Positive Movement!!!/_

11:22 AM  
Anonymous Raided Nate 75 said...

H said, "The Raiders have run both the 4-3 and the 3-4 with success."

They were forced to run the 3-4 the year we won the Super Bowl due to injury, and no backup to fill that spot.

H also said, "The main problem with coaches is they get locked in on just one of these variations and don't want to do anything else. The don't adjust."

That is true with guys like Gruden, Callahan, Kubiak, Marriucci, and St Louis. The majority of coaches (Whisenhunt, Payton, Josh McDaniels, Brad Childress, Brian Schottenheimer, John Harbaugh, Jack Del Rio, Mike Tomlin, Jeff Fisher, etc) is they use a lot of simplistic plays from a variety of schemes; and they're pretty d@mn successful! The good coaches understand that the best scheme is to use a variety of simplistic formations/philosophies to disguise.

With what you said about coaches being on a one track mind on their philosophies and not willing to adjust is the same thing that can be said against Al Davis; and why the Raiders are where they are.

Roy said, "Blanda, What Cable brought was a NEW scheme. Shell failed miserably because he brought nothing but old ass 1970's schemes."

I don't think Cable brought anything new to this team "scheme" wise. The only thing he brought that continued to improve, was communication with the players. He was willing to do and try different things to get on the board and give the Raiders a chance to win. He's not a "schemer", nor did he display (to me anyway) any type of game-planning ability. I hope to God if he is Head Coach, that they get a terrific Offensive Coordinator to play call. That is a HUGE lack that Cable brings to the table.

Art Shell's problem was being out of the game, and not knowing how to adjust to the change of philosophies. His 2nd tenure (to me), is the clearest picture of Al's philosophy vs the rest of the League.

11:22 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

40%....

Sorry my math took a dive...I noticed it when I reread it...

40%...40%....40%....

11:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Raider Nate,
Cable instituted the zone blocking scheme. I am speaking only about the O line here because Blanda referenced the o line.

Roy

11:35 AM  
Anonymous Raided Nate 75 said...

H said, "This is one of the basic myths about Raider football." in commenting on my comment of "Whereas Al's philosophy is, 'We will take what we want.'"

H, it's not a myth when that statement came from the horse's mouth (the horse being Al). He has said it numerous time, and it is the driving force and theme of "The Autumn Wind" that is played in Oakland. He says it year in and year out; the way he wants to get the Raiders' back to "glory" is by taking what he wants, and doing it his way. His argument is that we have the talent (now) to take what we want, and there is no excuse for our losing.

"During his starting years Plunkett's primary receiver was Todd Christensen."

What does this have to do with anything? Are you stating that Christensen was a dump off pattern? Christensen's routes is what a lot of offenses do with their TE today; up the middle seam 15+ yards; and it was used to open up the WR in a long pass by keeping the safety home.

Panty said, "65-99...66% winning record..."

Your math is wrong. 65/99 is yes 66%, but that is not our winning percentage. The winning percentage is calculated by the total of games played (65+99=164), then taking your number of wins and dividing it by number of games played. So in this case, our percentage is figured by the equation:
65/164 = 39.6% in 10 years.

Its funny how you guys keep talking how we are the "Team of the decades" in a sport that is measured by "what have you done for me lately."

11:37 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

RaiderNate75...

I disagree...

Art's problem was not with the scream it was with his childishness and that of the players like Porter...With execution the plays could have worked but the team was so disrupted and uncoroperative that nothing that was called was going to work...

Even when they changed the Play-Caller there was no improvement...Total turmoil from the front office to the field is what destroyed that season right from the start....And that's the season that Al was least involved with his team as he was caring for his sickly wife and left things up to his trusted friends who broke out in the worst childish display the NFL has ever seen...

da "Mole"....And it was played along by the "Mediot"s so it would continue to disrupt...

PantyRaider..."Mediot" Hate-Wars!!!/_

11:40 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Panty with out the benefit of time to research, I can name a few coaches off the top of my head that chose GM's. Gruden when he took Allen to TB, I believe Mangini just brought in a GM to Cleveland, I know Cowher has his GM he will bring.

Roy

11:41 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

RaiderNate75....

Your too late with your correction...It was already posted...

39.63414 would round up to a 40% Winning Record but just for you it can be viewed as a 60% losing Record...

The point was being made that we were the worst in history and had a 25% record which is not realistic sense we are the "Team of the Decades" and everything has been measured with the Raiders according to "Decades" in the past...

As far as "Take What We Want"....

Did it lay out a specific way that we would take control of the other teams...Did that statement leave room for adjustments in how we would attack the other team as we take what we want....Why do you try to make us so one dimensional...From "HC" to "HC" we have changed how we attack on "O" and "D"...Please remove the blinders....They blur your vision...

"The "QB" must go down and he must go down hard"...

"We will attack deep and we will attack often"....

"We will pummel you into submission"...

How do these philosophies NOT fit the NFL game-plan today...

PantyRaider....Back to Practice!!!/_

11:53 AM  
Anonymous Raided Nate 75 said...

Panty, lack of execution in football = failed scheme. The failed "scheme" was not setting up the long ball with running plays, screens and dump offs, quick slants, outs, etc. Art Shell's scheme was "We will take what we want" because that is the way Al Davis wanted it.

Because of that, and multiple personalities telling players their assignments without communicating with each other(mostly the O-Line stooges)is when players like Moss, Jordan, and others quit on the team. Some of those guys are still on our team. I believe Derrick Burgess is one of them.

11:57 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Roy...

OK...I can now see that possibility...But is that not a very bad practice as has been pointed out here several times...

"The Cart Before the Horse"...

If an owner hires a "HC" before he has a "GM"....Now Now Now...That's a Big-Bad No-No!!!!/...

PantyRaider....Slanted Version!!!/_

11:59 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

RaiderNate75....

"Take What We Want" is NOT a scene it's an attitude and those players could not buy into it...

There is huge differences between "Attitudes" and Schemes...Most of the Raider Slogans are "Attitude" adjusters and when the players like Burgess play with that attitude the game works...

That was Burgess' best year by the way so Ya...He's still on the team....And the "D" is the only squad that started to buy into the Attitude that Art Shell was trying to coach....#3 "D"...

PantyRaider...Have a Positive Attitude!!!/_

12:06 PM  
Anonymous Raided Nate 75 said...

Panty said, "'The 'QB' must go down and he must go down hard'"...

'We will attack deep and we will attack often'....

'We will pummel you into submission'...

How do these philosophies NOT fit the NFL game-plan today..."

They don't fit in the NFL game-plan today because:

1. They are not Disguised. The argument is that the NFL game has changed from disguising where the 1-on-1 coverage is, and has become more "Read-and-React" as the play unfolds, rather than the "Here's the play, let's go execute it" mentality of the quotes above.

2. They are not set up. Yes, these are still effective goals to reach in the NFL; but the problem is that the Raiders game plan the last 6 seasons, starts and ends with those statements. There is no process to acheive those goals; it's a "Go out there and do it" mentality.

Other teams, yes, have this philosophy, but they reach these goals by setting it up. It is the end result, not the only means to reach it.

12:09 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Nate, disquising your plays and formations are new? You need to rent a movie called, "Nute Rockne, All American."

12:12 PM  
Anonymous Raided Nate 75 said...

Panty said, ""Take What We Want" is NOT a scene it's an attitude and those players could not buy into it...

There is huge differences between "Attitudes" and Schemes...Most of the Raider Slogans are "Attitude" adjusters and when the players like Burgess play with that attitude the game works..."

Panty that is my whole argument!!! The take what you want is not the "attitude" in Oakland, it is the "scheme" that Al Davis wants to use to acheive a "return to glory". This is the "scheme" the Raiders have lived and died on. It is like planning your entire success on winning the lottery! Yes, you may win and get lucky; but more than naught, you're losing in the big picture. This is where the Raiders are in the recent decade! LOSING THE BIG PICTURE. 10 YEARS AND A .396 WINNING PERCENTAGE!!!
UNACCEPTABLE!!!!

Again, stop banking on the "We are the team of the decades" when talking about a sport that is measured by "what have you done for me lately?" Because it's mute. It holds value when you're relevant in the present.

12:15 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

PantyRaider - "If you look we went down slowly and bottomed out in "06" and are now slowly coming back up...."

Going from 13-6 to 4-12 (as you point out) is not exactly a slow decline; more like falling off a cliff.

And I'm not sure I get why you think we're coming back? 5-11 off of a 4-12 season isn't exactly progress. Not only did last year show us some of the worst football in this six-year run, but we are in the midst of an entire coaching staff transition, and we have no idea what direction or form it will take.

As far as limiting my comments to the last six years, ok, how about the last 26 years? That's how long it's been since we won the Super Bowl. That's a long time for a "team of the decades." I’m actually ok with that, it’s really just the last six years of repeating the same mistakes that’s got me baffled.

12:17 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Here's the money quote, from the hero of the 2002 SB, Simeon Rice regading St. Gruden.

"You look at what he did when Chris (Simms) damn near died on the field he wanted to release him right when he got injured," Rice said. "I get hurt, my shoulder's torn off the bone. This dude releases me. You know what I mean? I'm your guy. The list goes on. Keenan McCardell, that situation was a debacle. Keyshawn Johnson, another situation [that] was a debacle. Joey Galloway, which was his man, was in the dog house all year because he got injured, broke his ankle or whatever. Brad Johnson, that situation was bad. Brings Jeff Garcia in here, oh, he's going to change things. I helped recruit him [and he] released me, kept Jeff and then put him in the dog house. Gets rid of Brian Greise, brings him, starts a controversy. It was chaotic. I'm giving you facts."

TB gave Gruden enough control to hire his own GM. Now what do you think of Davis' decision not to give Gruden that kind of control?

12:21 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

RaiderNate75...

I'm not sure what you just said or what you are trying to argue...

If the plays are set up properly these Attitude Philosophies could work????...Because they aren't set up there no good anymore in the NFL???...

It's true the Raiders have failed to play with with these attitudes of late but several other teams are very good at maintaining those attitudes...

Pitts-n-Baltimore knock the holly shit out of your "QB"...Pummel you into submission...

"AZ" attacks deep and attacks often...

Those Attitude Philosophies were sold to the other NFL teams by Al Davis as we stomped their ass with it...Now we fail to have the attitude while several of them display it...Our slogans no longer appear ours but are now theirs...That's why those slogans appear hollow in OakTown....

We fail to play the game with an attitude..."Culture of Losing"...

PantyRaider....Get That Attitude Back!!!/_

12:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blanda said "TB gave Gruden enough control to hire his own GM. Now what do you think of Davis' decision not to give Gruden that kind of control?"

I think it was pretty stupid because it single handedly cost us a Super Bowl.

Roy

12:26 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Nate, your explanation of the differnce between attitude and scheme is excellent. And it what I maintain is the big difference between football in the 70s and now.

Shell was horrible because he had no clue regarding the attitude changes of player in this era. He expected his team to have the same ethics and motivations as they had in the 70s, but they don't.

12:28 PM  
Anonymous Raided Nate 75 said...

BR said, "Nate, disquising your plays and formations are new? You need to rent a movie called, 'Nute Rockne, All American.'"

No Blanda, I never said that, and you're putting words in my mouth and creating a straw-man argument.
THE WAY YOU DISGUISE your play/formation/coverage has changed. In your time, the plays were disguised by how you lined up, and you knew your situations before the ball snapped; you knew how the opponent was going to respond/react BEFORE THE SNAP! Adjustments and the way you disguised the play was done at the line of scrimmage. Example, the defender lines up on the inside, the WR runs an out. The defender plays tight coverage, straight up (or to the outside), the WR sprints 3 yards and slants inside. This was determined BEFORE THE SNAP!

In modern times, the plays are disguised while the play is in progress (AFTER the snap), and is more of a reaction. A is dependent on B. Example, the Z WR will look for the ball on the outside if the defender takes the inside route away. It is the WR's responsibility to adjust his route while the play is in progress; and it is the QB's responsibility to read and know that adjustment.

12:29 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

BlandaRocked...

Excellent Points....

How do we get to a point that "Slogans" are viewed as "Schemes"....I just don't understand...I guess I will have to go look up the definition of "Scheme" so I can get a clearer picture....

I was always of the thought that those "Slogans" denoted the "Attitude" that the Raiders played with and that "Schemes" were developed to that allowed the team to perform best with those attitudes....

"Pride-n-Poise"....

PantyRaider...Off To The Book!!!/_

12:31 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Roy, you didn't read Adam Treu's article, did you. He says that the Raiders should have won that game, but Callahan faild to adjust to the reality that Gruden wrote our playbook. He said he could hear the TB LBs calling out our playbook before the snap.

We didn't lose that game because Davis let Gruden go. We lost that game because Callahan failed to do his job by making a gross miscalculation.

12:31 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Nate, I'm amazed that you think that stuff is new! Part of the reason that the Raiders were great in the 70s was their ability to improvise and adjust DURING the play. The Holy Roller play is an offshoot of that. Take a look at that "mistake" on film sometime and realize how many players had to be in sync with what they were doing.

12:36 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Almost everyone I've ever heard say that the game is dramatically different than 30 years ago are people who were not alive then. Those who were, say the opposite.

For those who like the Madden idea, but believe football has changed dramatically, I hate to disappoint you because Madden is someone who agrees with me. He said so when Davis hired Shell II, and he has also attributed Shell's failure, not to the changes in the game, but attitude changes from the players.

12:40 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

A double team scheme to prevent a certain receiver

A-11 puts the quarterback in the shotgun formation—seven yards behind the line of scrimmage—and replaces linemen with receivers. What does all this mean? Essentially, the scheme makes all 11 members of the team potential, eligible receivers

football scheme - the combination of defensive formation and defensive strategy put into action;

A term used to describe offensive and defensive formations and the overall strategy for using such a formation

12:44 PM  
Blogger H said...

OK guys, just when you thought the media couldn't get any dumber, they do. A quote from Ross Tucker at SI.com Inside the NFL.

---------
In fact, there are players for teams like the Cleveland Browns, Detroit Lions, Oakland Raiders and Arizona Cardinals for whom the Super Bowl is like a forbidden fruit that they feel is virtually unattainable. (Oops: Scratch the Cardinals from that list. Bad habit.)
---------------

I'm sorry was I hallucinating when I was watching Super Bowls 2, 11, 15, 18 and 37. That's more appearences than the vast majority of the league.

This guy is a true idiot and we should let him know.

H

12:45 PM  
Anonymous Raided Nate 75 said...

Panty, what's so hard to understand? In order to get the end result, you have to have a plan to get there. The end result is not the means in itself. The Raiders' philosophies you stated (and I post them below as well) are not only the end result, but the means to achieve the end result.

Example: Take the economy. The goal that the leaders of our nation face is bringing the housing markets, banking markets, and stock markets off the rapid decline it is on before it crashes. You have short-term actions to help reach that goal(the bailout, tax breaks, cutting interest rates, etc). But they also need the short-term actions in place to acheive a long-term actions (a plan to help individuals get out of debt, a plan to help those less fortunate find an equal playing field to succeed, a plan to keep companies honest/accountable in their reporting, etc).

There are different philosophies on how to reach those long-term solutions; but the goal is to turn the economy around. Turning the economy around doesn't happen on it's own.

The same here:
"The 'QB' must go down and he must go down hard"...
"We will attack deep and we will attack often"....
"We will pummel you into submission"...

These are all good goals to reach in a game/season, but they don't happen on their own. There are short-term and long-term actions that a team must take to reach these goals. You don't drop back every play and chuck the ball down the field; you don't blitz the QB and get a sack every play; and the opponent is not beat into submission in the first offensive/defensive drive.

Each action sets up the next. A zone coverage helps disguise where a blitz is coming from. The end result of the blitz is for the QB to throw the ball sooner than he wants, because it creates mistakes. Man coverage keeps the offense honest; but also causes the QB to hold the ball longer than he wants, and that helps create a sack.

The running game, screens, and short/quick slants keeps the defense honest; and causes them to "creap up" on the line of scrimmage; and then you cut their heart out with a long pass.

You pummel the opponent to submission with how you execute and game plan (or scheme) for 4 Quarters. The end results:
(The QB must go down, and must go down hard; We will attack deep, and we will attack often; and We will pummell our opponent into submission) happens 10 yards at a time.

When the action is failing during the game, you adjust it accordingly; you don't continue that course of action.
This is the problem of Al Davis and the Raiders.

12:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blanda, there you go again. I have been watching football religiously for 23 years. The game has changed significantly since I started watching. You are making an insane argument and you and Al will bet the farm on this outdated notion.

Yes the TB players were calling our plays. Why did they have them you ask? Because Al's ego was too big and he had to show he was boss by shipping out Gruden. If we had kept him one more year we would have won that SB.

Roy

12:57 PM  
Anonymous Raided Nate 75 said...

Panty said, "A-11 puts the quarterback in the shotgun formation—seven yards behind the line of scrimmage—and replaces linemen with receivers. What does all this mean? Essentially, the scheme makes all 11 members of the team potential, eligible receivers."

No it doesn't, that becomes a formation violation according to the rules of the NFL. But let's say that it is not a violation. They are all not eligible WRs. They maybe WRs, but when they are "substituted" in the places of lineman positions; they become lineman; not WRs.

1:01 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

RaiderNate75....

I did NOT say that...I "Copy-Posted" it from articles talking about "Schemes" so you would get beyond your misuse of the word...

Now it appears you are talking about "GamePlans" and ways of getting to a "Goal"...Nice adjustment...

By the way...That was a "HS" football Scheme and I'm not sure how it works but it will be used 60% of the time....Here is the url...

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?
id=football-offensive-math

So...Now we understand that Raider "Philosophies" denoted by "Slogans" are "Attitudes" that the team needs to play with and NOT "Schemes" as a "Scheme" sets out formations and Strategies or "Game Plans" on how to achieve success in the game...

PantyRaider...Making Progress!!!/_

1:29 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Whether or not the game has changed (it has) is dwarfed next to the misguided notion that Al Davis at 80 years of age can still continue to micro-manage this football organization while wearing multiple hats of Owner, General Manager, Director of Player Personnel, and defensive coach de facto.

Something will have to give in Al's universe before the Raiders can start a long-term recovery.

He may also want to rethink sending Herrera as his press secretary... the man lacks credibility after the Kawakami incident.

1:45 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

Gary,

and so your point is that over the last 6 years, even bill bidwell has out maneuvered al davis ?

is there really anything more to say ?

the fact is that al davis, operating as GM of the raiders, has moved them from 2 wins to 5 wins, over the last six seasons.

i know, i know, it's all someone elses fault.

BlandaRocked,

where have i been ? i don't know. why don't you list all the 0-linemen on the raiders weighing under 300 lbs.

our guards weigh more today, then our tackles did in the 70's.

...is that coffee i smell ?

again, the steelers have moved on from 1970's thinking. cowboys moved on. everyone has moved on except al davis.

maybe he should hire george jefferson as HC.
at least then, we'd be a movin on up.

1:47 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"If you are making random choices, it's harder to respond," Ayres explains. "A-11 offers a kind of controlled randomness."

The closer a team gets to total randomness, says Ayres, the harder they are to beat. "Any coach would be much better off using a cheap [Microsoft] Excel random number generator to make their decisions."

1:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well said NY Raider, well said.

Roy

1:52 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

A statement was made that Cable does not appear to have a game plan and just calls plays without a clear plan....Maybe he studied this California "Scheme"....the A-11....Sounds interesting and may actually be something new....

Bland...Check this out and explain it...Has photos and such...Sounds entriguing....

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?
id=football-offensive-math

1:55 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Roy, no. We wouldn't have gotten there because Gruden HATES to pass. "When you throw the ball, three things can happen, and two of them are bad." That's a direct quote from Gruden. The Raiders made the Super Bowl because Callahan went pass happy. I thought you said you were watching.

Here's my way of thinking. The Raiders have NEVER had a better defense than the 1983 SB team. They incorporated all of the elements that Davis likes, and uses as the SIGNATURE of the Raiders. We had D-Linemen who could penetrate without regularly blitzing, and the best man coverage corner tandum in the history of the NFL.

This team was successful because of the players who opperated in it. As I've always maintained, those players were aquired by the consultations of the staff and ownership. There has NOT been that kind of communication between staff and ownership since Flores (with the exception of Gruden and Allen).

This is why I'm in for Cable. Cable knows players, he knows attitudes and he knows how to change attitudes. He has the added benefit of liking to communicate with Al Davis. If we get one more good mind in there, we might finally move forward.

2:14 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

BlandaRocked...

I second the positive energy...

Please take a look at that "Crazy" A-11 Offensive Scheme...Has Xs-n-Os "Chalk Talk"....Probably would never work in the NFL but maybe an inversion would be possible...

PantyRaider....Something New???/_

2:26 PM  
Anonymous Raided Nate 75 said...

BR said, "Here's my way of thinking. The Raiders have NEVER had a better defense than the 1983 SB team. They incorporated all of the elements that Davis likes, and uses as the SIGNATURE of the Raiders. We had D-Linemen who could penetrate without regularly blitzing, and the best man coverage corner tandum in the history of the NFL."

Now tell me a team (other than the Raiders) that play to this philosophy in the YEAR 2008-09???? You can't. Why? Because the philosphy and game planning of football has changed and progressed since 1983. Coaches have IMPROVED upon those schemes, and how the game is played.

2:31 PM  
Anonymous Raided Nate 75 said...

Panty, who cares about the A-11? This isn't High School football we're talking about. We're talking about the Raiders! If it is so fabulous, then why'd they lose in the playoffs?

They can get away with that in High School, but it wouldn't work in the College or Pro level because of different rules that brings more limitations on how you game plan, scheme, etc.

2:38 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

RaiderNate75....

One thing has definitely changed and that's your ability to go out and get the top quality players for your schemes and keep them long enough to stay competitive...

"32" teams dilute the pool of players and the "Cap" retires several quality players early...

If we could work in the "83" structure and acquire the players for the type of football that the Raiders played back than but play it now I believe the game plan would still work...But having 4 "DL" Pro-Bowlers would break the bank and there would be no money left for the top cover "CB"s-n-hard hitting "S"s...Not to mention those "LB"s who played for us...

So in that sense I will agree that "Raider Football" as we knew it has passed us by...But what will happen in a "No-Cap" environment when Al Davis is more than willing to spend his last dollar to get back to the "SB" before the "Silver-n-Black Chariot" takes him away....

PantyRaider...Glory Days!!!/_

2:49 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

RaderNate75....

Now Now don't turn the nose up before the possibilities are evaluated...After all...Isn't that what you have been posting about...How Al Davis and the Raiders have stayed in the "Dark Ages" and not progressed with the rest of the NFL....

They lost in the play-off true...But that was the 1st year in the scheme and they made the play-offs for the 1st time with it...Not yet perfected but intriguing...

Now as to the NFL which is slow to adopt but in time has taken on college rules as in 2 pt conversions and such...Even the "Red Flag" form the USFL...So do you believe no one would ever take a look at what some under-populated "HS" program did to become competitive...Now what could it do for a highly populated program with a greater athletic pool...

PantyRaider....Questions To Be Answered!!!/_

2:58 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

I disagree again, Nate. In 83 it didn't work because it was "state of the art." In 83 it worked because we had the right players for it. The Raiders have always adjusted to their personnel - always. But in 83 they had the perfect fit for the system they prefer. Other teams don't run it because it takes a couple of shut down corners and savage d-linemen.

The Steelers haven't done anything dramatically different from the 70s and 80s. The difference is that the Steelers have had a very slow turn over of coaching staffs, allowing signature Steeler philosophy to remain consistent through the years. They have always brought in, and continue to bring in, Steeler types.

The Raiders have broken up the through-line because of lack of consistency.

3:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

WTF are you talking about Blanda? The Steelers gave the NFL one of the best changes to D, a little thing called the zone blitz. This was in the 1990's.

Roy

3:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ESPN is reporting Cable is head coach.

Roy

3:52 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

BlandaRocked,

you say the steelers aren't that different from the 1970's & 80's ?

wow, you mean they still are running george perles' defense from the 1970's ??

i'm sure that would be news to them.

and when they blitz on like, every freakin down, they were doing that in the 1970 's ?

i don't remember that.

you've got to be kiddin everyone.

the truth is, yes the steelers, stayed the same in the 1980's. that is when they had their down turn.

it wasn't until they changed, under bill cowher, and entered the modern age, that they started this run they're currently on.

way to revise history, blanda.

4:16 PM  
Blogger H said...

BSPN is reporting, but not from Chris Mortnesen. Herrera said it's not decided yet. I read that as I's and T's to be finalized, so there is still room to fall apart.

I think he's the guy though.

Roy,

Another correction. Leaving for Tampa was Gruden's call. Davis called him and asked point blank if he wanted to stay or go. He said he wanted to be closer to his family in Tampa. Al then pulled the trigger on the deal knowing Gruden wouldn't re-sign.

Now, Al Davis believes you take what you want, but you have to set it up first. That's what Biletnikof, Chandler, Casper, Christensen and all those running backs were for. In order to go vertical you must first draw the corners and safeties in.

H

4:28 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Raider00, I haven't got a clue why you think blitzing is a brand new thing. We ran blitzes in my sophmore year in HS in 1968!

4:40 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

BlandaRocked,

and how do you know what worked in 1983, would work today ?

how many teams feature a "john riggins" type, as their lead runner today ??

oh yeah, i forgot, nothing has changed about football.

4:43 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

BlandaRocked,

you should at least read my posts before you try to respond to them.

let's try again.

you said steelers are no different then 1970's and 1980"s.(3:17pm)

i pointed out how they are a heavy bltzing team today, while back in the 1970's, they, like most teams of that era, did not blitz that much.

the point being, steelers/football, has changed. al davis/raiders, have not.

and congrats on your high school team discovering the blitz.
maybe someday, al davis will find out about it as well.

4:49 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Regarding news that Cable was named HC:

“The decision has not been made,” John Herrera of the Raiders told Smith. “That’s not correct. At some point here we will have a head coach, but as of now that decision has not been made. We are assembling a staff as you know, but a decision on the head man has not been made.”

Could the Raiders disrespect Tom Cable any more than to wait a month after the season ended and still deny he is going to be named HC if in fact he is?

I particularly like the admission that a staff is being assembled without a HC in place. That's priceless.

4:55 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

NYRaider...

I agree..."That's Priceless"...But in what aspect...

Are the Raiders doing a masterful job of "Jerking" the Media...Or keeping in the "Lime-Lite"...Or waiting for the secret "GM" to be on-board so he can name Cable his coach....Or just confused....

It's "SB" week and we all know how much Al loves to be on everyone mind....

Raider00...

Ron Dayne-n-Natrone Means types...How many are in the NFL and not being used....Like Jerome Felton in the last draft....6' 0" 246lb hard ass hitter from college has 2 carries for Detroit this year and a 5yd catch....

So how do we judge what would work if it's not tried...But you can believe that the moment that new coach puts him in the game for 25+ carries and hammers away at the "D" and wins with it every other team in the NFL will run out and look for a "CopyCat" toy of their own....

NFL is hard to judge when everyone tries the same thing...If the Patts are winning everyone goes out and copies what they did...Now they are going to copy the Steelers because "AZ" made it to the "SB" by doing so...

I liken it to fishing....I was commercial in Hawaii and Oregon...For ages the word is don't fish on the full moon....And typically the catch #s during the full moon cycle are way down...But sense I like to research things I put the #s to calculation....What did I discover....

On the full moon there are far less boats out fishing but the catch rate per vessel is in fact up as compared to the rest of the lunar cycle....So what action did I take....Well...

I took my boat out at every freaking full moon and I made my money....However...With the full moon I had to slightly change my style of fishing because there was already too much light on the water so attracting fish by light was not practical...Adjusted game Plans....But the fish are still hungry and need to eat...Go figure that one out...

Oh...By the way...I fished tuna which needs to consume 1/2 their body weight per day....So now was I to believe that they would go hungry for several days during the lunar cycle....NOT a Chance....

PantyRaider....Gone Fishing!!!!/_

5:33 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Wow, BSPN gives their sources. Someone who knows someone who knows one of the candidates, and someome with knowledge of the Raiders (Mike Lombardi). What could be more certain than that?

5:37 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Just for fun I went back and read some of my post and others from "06" as Art was making his comeback....So many questions were un-answered....

Lot's of water under the bridge sense than...But I recognise my post even though it was as Anno...

PantyRaider...Foward Hind-Sight!!!

6:43 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

PantyRaider,

does al davis really believe he can upstage the super bowl by naming tom cable HC in next few days ?

come on, he can't be that out of it....can he ??

and yes, there are still some bruising backs in the league. raiders look to have one of their own in michael bush.
but they are not featured backs anymore.

gone are the days of csonka, riggins, banaszak, etc.

8:28 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Roy wrote the following in reference to Madden:

"OK, moving on from the he is old argument to substance. Here goes my objections.

1) Be able to recruit personnel and coaches.

Madden: Not likely

To pretend like bringing in Madden is suddenly going to put the Raiders at the top of elite coaches wish list is naïve at best. The elite coaches want to bring in their own front office personnel and won’t be fooled into thinking that just because Madden is the GM that Al will stop meddling. No elite coach wants to coach for a team that has his entire staff hired for him, even if Madden is the GM."

CJ: I never said that Madden necessarily would be able to recruit elite coaches. My main point was that if Madden is in the Raiders front office that a coach or player would be more willing to take his call and hear what opportunity he is selling. In recruiting, half the battle is getting the chance to speak with someone about an opportunity. Name brand, name recognition goes a long ways to getting this chance. Of course, if Madden can't pitch what he is selling, then he won't land the target. "Coffee is for closers"
===================================
(2) Be able to work in harmony with Al Davis.

Madden: Check.

"Yes, Madden and Al are great friends and I believe they would continue to be great friends. However, this has no bearing on winning, only on being able to coexist."

CJ: So their working relationship of 10+ years should be discounted? Bottom Line: When Madden was HC, he worked directly for Davis. They had their arguments and differnces but the working relationship never suffered. What binded them together in the past and today, if Madden is brought into the front office, is the singular goal of working together to put a winning, SB caliber team on the playing field.
==================================
(3) Football knowledge

Madden: Not sure.

"Madden has basic football knowledge, run the ball, pressure the QB and protect the QB. However, the way this is done now is completely different than when Madden (and Al) were in the game. And no, providing color does not work. If it did we would see successful franchises recruiting TV guys. Does he know what talent works best with a zone blitz D? Or does he come from the Al Davis school of man-to-man and absolutely no blitzing what so ever?"

CJ: First off, saying Madden has "basic football knowledge" is completely asinine and quite frankly very disrespectful of a HOF inductee. Madden knows more about football than 99.9% of the entire world's population. You would seriously be hard pressed to find 1000 men who know more about the game than Madden. Madden has been knee deep in football his entire adult, working life.

Secondly, as a front office executive, Madden would not be responsible for desiging schemes, playcalling, etc.

As a front office executive his primary role would be an advisor to Davis. Would Madden be able to identify what coaches, free agents, draftees could be successful? IMO, yes.
==================================
(4) Knowledge of the league's players, coaches, and executives.

Madden: Check.

"This guy has connections and personal relationships with the entire NFL. Has no bearing on being a successful GM"

CJ: Excuse me, Roy? Connections and personal relationships is probably one of the most important traits for a GM/executive. For example, how do think GMs form an opinion about a player, coach, and draftee? I'll tell you how. They use their ability to network and get unsolicited opinions about certain subjects. For example, do you think it would help Madden if he knew the man who coach WR Jones? Sorry but if I have to explain the importance of connections and personal relationships to you, you are a lost cause.
==================================
(5) Be a line of communication/buffer/advisor between the coaching staff & players with Al.

Madden: Not sure.

"Madden from everything we have seen over the last 20 years is a great guy and everybody loves him. How he will do when he has to play the bad guy? This we don’t know. How would he have handled the Kiffin saga? We don’t know. There is nothing that Madden has done over the past 20 years to even make this assumption, save for wishful thinking."

CJ: The basis of assuming Madden would be good as a line of communication/buffer/advisor between the coaching staff & players with Al is self evident. It is self evident in a very key area; a long standing relationship both personal and professional that is built on mutual trust and respect.

=================================
(6) Be the "face" and ambassador for the team as necessary.

Madden: Not sure.

"Madden is a personable guy, but how will he deal with stonewalling the media? The Raiders aren’t going to suddenly morph into an open organization. Madden will have to be Herrera. He will have to tow the company line. This is much different from being everyones"

CJ: Madden is one of the greatest communicators in modern football history. He was an excellent communicator as a HC and football analyst. This is not even debatable. Would a guy who is known for being a great communicator be able to handle press conferences, liason with the media, and PR/Marketing related functions? Of course he would. Does this ability to communicate one on one or to the masses suddenly evaporate? Please.
==================================
"Now look at the other responsibilities of a GM
Problem solving: No freaking idea, the guy has been in TV for more than 20 years."

CJ: Here we go again with the "20 years" nonsense. You can discount his HOF success as a HC all you want but to get to the top of just about any profession, especially coaching, you need to have the ability to solve problems.
==================================
"Conflict resolution: Again no freaking idea. Anyone working with the Raiders better be able to do this. And just because he is a nice guy and Al and him are pals does not mean he is skilled at conflict resolution. He seems to be a person that wants everyone to like him and that he does not enjoy conflict, but again who knows."

CJ: You have no clue. How do you suppose that a guy like Madden reached the absolute pinnacle in 2,3,4 career areas without OUTSTANDING people skills.

Career 1: HC > HOF
Career 2: TV
Career 3: Video Games
Career 4: Advertising pitchman

That is 4 fields where you can easily make the argument that he reached the very top of the field of endeavor.

You continually act like these achievements were done in a vacuum like Madden's people skills, knowledge, communication skills, leaderhip skills, etc had nothing to do with it.
==================================
"Contract negotiation: No freaking idea, and this is a very important part of the job. The cap will be always be a factor. If the uncapped year goes ahead there will be a lockout."

CJ: Who knows if Madden would be directly involved in contract negotiations and the cap? No one on this board seems to imply that Madden is going to be hired to be a "traditional" GM in the first place.
=================================
If Madden is hired as a front office executive, there are many unknowns such as his specific role, how much time he devotes to the role, and whether he would be able to maximize his skill set to make a tangible differnce. My point is that whatever role he serves it would be a plus to the organization.

8:32 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

Calico,

the last guy of any substance plucked out of the broadcast booth was dick vermail, and he seemed to know what he was doing.

then again, he didn't have al davis poking him with a cane all day.

9:14 PM  
OpenID ionnes said...

Raider Salvation

Broncos sterile trying to be virile
Raider Nation salvation in peril
Scare no one with five wins
Pigskins don't fake Janikowski
House keys in a bowl hire
Cable desires disconnected douse
Mickey mouse picked like a louse
Sick of it, but there will always be hope
At least we ain't smokin' the Lion's dope
Dirty logos can be cleaned with soap
True Raider fans wont need to cope
Traitorous plans will impede the advance
We've got to give this guy a chance
_________________
I wrote this for Patrick from thoughts from the darkside to give him some hope. I thought i would share.
RAI-DERS!!!

John Vitti

10:34 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

John Madden...

If you view the "History of the Raiders" DVD you will see Madden for who he was....A tough hard-nosed coach who said...And this is my favorite line....

"Ya were dirty...So what are you going to do about it"....

His was a damn tough team..."O"-n-"D"...And he paced the sidelines and got right up in the "Zebra"s face when he didn't like a call...He was never weak-assed about his approach to the game...Infact...I wouldn't be a bit surprised to learn that several of the Raiders "Attitude Slogans" came straight from him....

He dealt continually with the "Mediot"s and would get straight with them in a hurry...That is why he's NOT like them when he addresses other teams and players....He does NOT treat people the "Way-o-da-Mediot"...He is very much his own man and has been as long as I can remember....

So this nonsense about him not being able to handle these damn "Mediot"s around the Bay area is ludichrist to say the least...He is a "Mediot" for crying out loud...He knows and understands their occupation inside-out...They can't pull anything on that guy...Not anything....

Beside he probably knows enough "Horror" about them that they will be afraid to even try...

NO better "PR" man than that....An insider turned back to the outside...

PantyRaider....Pimping Madden!!!!/_

10:53 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>

and so your point is that over the last 6 years, even bill bidwell has out maneuvered al davis ?
>>>>


Not that I am surprised you didn't understand the point but no... things change quickly in the NFL "OO."

Arizona was the laughing stock of the NFL not just because of 7 years of crappy teams, but DECADES of crappy teams. Them and SD.

Oh, and before that, NE.


Is this your first time following the NFL?

10:54 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
Because Al's ego was too big and he had to show he was boss by shipping out Gruden. If we had kept him one more year we would have won that SB.
>>>>


Uhhh, no. Tenn that year had the number two defense in the NFL against the rush, and 25th vs the pass.

Which means St. Gruden would have tried to RUN THE BALL DOWN THEIR THROATS.

Where do I get this idea???

I dunno... maybe thats how he pissed a ring away against Balt a few years earlier???

11:05 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Raider00...

Can't believe how well you completely miss any point...Is that intentional avoidance...

My point was that those big "RB"s do still exist but how can we judge their effectiveness in today's game if they aren't utilized...But the moment an Earl Campbell is used again as he was back when and a team wins with it the whole damn NFL will go out and try to find one again...

That was the point about the "Fishing" gig....If you believe it wont work and don't try it than of course the stats will represent it as not productive....

PantyRaider...Wow....Get a Clue!!!/_

11:13 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>
nyraider said...

Gary - perhaps you should go back and read my posts. I never called anyone a bald-faced liar. You're way off base.
>>>


I never said you did. I asked you to document when Al has told such bald-faced lies to the media.

This is now the FOURTH time I have asked this... I know I don't always proofread my posts here.. but this seems like simple English.

What bald-faced lies has Al told to the media?

What bald-faced lies has Al told to the media.... thats 6 times now.



My point was that Al has never told bald-faced lies to the media, thus he deserves the benefit of the doubt when he said he is going to hire a GM, and there is a plan here.


If you want to dispute this... point out what bald-faced lies he has told to the media.

Do you need to hear it again?

If you can't dispute this, stop having temper tantrums about it.

11:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

>>>

Could the Raiders disrespect Tom Cable any more than to wait a month after the season ended and still deny he is going to be named HC if in fact he is?
>>>>


Yes, if I were an owner, and I hadn't decided to name Cable as HC yet, the first thing I'd do if the media said he is hired, is say that he is coach, even if I might have other idea's.

IS this what this has become????


NY wants the fucking MEDIA to dictate what our owner does in running this team now?

Why not have an internet fan poll... maybe you think that is how he should run the team now NY????

Or better yet... maybe Al should just call YOU and ask your opinion.. maybe THAT would make you happy? (Although I wouldn't hold my breath.. you prolly castigate him for listening to you.)

11:27 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Gary said "I asked you to document when Al has told such bald-faced lies to the media."

And I repeat, I never called Al Davis a bald-faced liar. So, what is it exactly that you;re referencing or think I should comment on? WTF?

Anon 11:27 - if you're going to call me out, at least identify yourself.

"Problem is, until Cable signs a contract which says he is the coach, then he isn’t the coach. Which means that if Al Davis is struck by a sudden inspiration that someone else should be the coach, he can act upon that impulse." (Jerry McDonald)

Sorry, but that's disrespectful. Even Herrera stated that Cable is not the coach.

5:00 AM  
Blogger H said...

Calico,

We may disagree on some things but kudos. Well said.

As for John Riggins and blitzing. Lendel White is a bit faster but he is more of a power back. North and south runner much like Riggins and Collins is a prototype pocket passer. Also, the Flaiming Thumbtacks ran a straight 4-3 with very little blitzing. Let's see, you can't have success doing all that old fashion stuff.

I think they were 13-3 with the number 7 defense in the league, 6 against the rush and 9 against the pass. Also they were the number 7 rushing team. Now, they did have Chris Johnson. He was the speed guy, but aside from him this was a team playing in the 60's and 70's.

But as we all know football has changed so dramatically this is impossible.

-------
Could the Raiders disrespect Tom Cable any more than to wait a month after the season ended and still deny he is going to be named HC if in fact he is?
--------

It is appearent from his actions that whatever is going on at the moment Cable is involved. One report stated that when Cable was contacted for comment he said he had not been told.

He has interviewed position coaches and represented the Raiders at the Senior Bowl. How are you being shown disrespect if you are hip deep in the process?

H

7:14 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Gary, I'm with NYRaider, what, exactly, are you referencing with this "bald-faced lie" business?

Why are you asking him to document something that you admit he never suggested?

Even though you never kicked your dog, Gary, tell me: Why did you kick your dog? Why!?

7:19 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

H - I think J-Mac states it pretty well in the quote I posted above.

Many think that Cable has been given HC authority, including me, yet the Raiders go out of their way to deny he is the HC. What gives?

IMO, the Raiders' process remains highly suspect until proven otherwise. We've seen this or some variation of this quirky behavior for the past several years, and the result speak for itself.

7:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Case against Madden

Here is the way I see it. Madden was raised in the Al Davis school of football. Hiring Madden is doubling down on the past 20 years of poorly run Al Davis teams.

I want vision for the future and a new way of doing business. I want Al Davis to stop running the team. I have ZERO confidence in him. I will always have a spot in my heart for Al, he is the ultimate Raider.

But like a prize fighter who doesn’t know when to hang up the gloves, Al Davis has stayed too long and the game has passed him by. I believe Madden working for Al will only embolden Al and force us to endure shitty free agents, micro managed teams and back ass wards way of operating an NFL franchise. No amount of likability or communication skills is going to radically change Al Davis’s philosophy of football. In fact, I am willing to bet that Madden and Davis agree more than they disagree on football issues.

I want a new way forward. I want change. I grew up in the 80’s and have endured crap and mediocrity my entire life—I feel like I am in some sort of sports hell—save for 4-5 seasons. I don't want to double down on the 70's.

Roy

8:42 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

My take on why Cable has not been announced. It's really pretty simple. They are still negotiating the contract. One side or the other is trying to get some specific language in the contract, and they are hammering it out. We don't know whether the language is a deal breaker or not. We also don't know which side is creating the hill to be climbed.

But Tom Cable is not a stupid man, and as HC he's likely going to require a few things.

NEITHER SIDE will make an announcement until all issues have been resolved and signatures are on, if not the contract, the working agreement. YOU DON'T announce the hire until then, because if the negotiations fail, that makes everybody look bad.

As for Cable being shown disrespect. That's pure BS! Even if Cable is not the HC, say he's only the O-Line coach (he must be something because he's not looking for another job), then this is the first time I've seen an O-line coach help select his head coach.

Also, as long as the HC position remains officially unfilled, and if Herrera and Davis can convince the world that the job is still open, it's a lot easier to get people from the SB teams here to interview immediately after Sunday.

In that Herrera said there is a method to the madness, and all will be explained, there is a possibility that the Raiders want one big announcement instead of a bunch of little ones. In other words, they want a news splash to raise interest in the 2009 Raiders. It could be they want to couple it with the announcement of filling a new front office position. That last is only a possibility.

8:56 AM  
Anonymous Raided Nate 75 said...

H said, "Now, Al Davis believes you take what you want, but you have to set it up first. That's what Biletnikof, Chandler, Casper, Christensen and all those running backs were for. In order to go vertical you must first draw the corners and safeties in."

Okay, again big picture. That is the problem, he has never MODIFIED how to set that up; like the rest of the league.

Blanda, Al is saying we have the perfect roster now to do things his way and win it all. I agree with half of that statement. We have the perfect roster to do it his way, but our record reflects "his way" in the modern era.

Then you bring up the Steelers. They haven't changed philosophy of game planning, I agree. There is not much to change in football philosophy since it's inception. But the CHANGE is in MODIFYING how you accomplish that philosophy. The Steelers have always done it with great defense and running. Always. But their game-planning and game-management on that philosophy has CHANGED.

Again, Al hasn't changed football philosophy or goals, and I agree that he shouldn't have to. My beef with him, is he hasn't changed how he wants to accomplish
this philosophy and goals. He is trying to use the same management skills, game-planning skills, and same tired way of running his organization!

Blanda, I also think you are misunderstanding some things. Nobody is saying that "blitzing" is new. What we are saying is how a team utilizes the blitz has CHANGED! How they disguise the blitz has CHANGED! Zone Defense is fairly new (even in Basketball); and that caused more CHANGES to how the game was played. Offensively, passing the ball 10 yards or less is fairly new (started with Bill Walsh in SF) to counter the "Zone Defense". That has CHANGED the game!

Here's what will really blow your mind. The way these schemes/formations/plays (whatever you want to call them) are done today, have been MODIFIED from how they were initially; and guess what? It CHANGED the way the game was played.

Recap, Football philosophy and goals rarely changes, if at all. But the way to accomplish those goals, and fulfill the philosophy constantly change.

Panty said, "Now as to the NFL which is slow to adopt but in time has taken on college rules as in 2 pt conversions and such...Even the "Red Flag" form the USFL...So do you believe no one would ever take a look at what some under-populated "HS" program did to become competitive...Now what could it do for a highly populated program with a greater athletic pool..."

I never said that, quit putting words in my mouth. All I said was the A-11 would be a violation of current NFL rules, sense I was speaking of being current with how the game is managed and played today in the NFL!

9:08 AM  
Blogger H said...

Wake up Psycho, it's getting close.

H

9:11 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
Gary, I'm with NYRaider, what, exactly, are you referencing with this "bald-faced lie" business?

Why are you asking him to document something that you admit he never suggested?
>>>


So if you both now finally admit that Al is not a bald-faced liar, why disbelieve him when he sez they are going to bring in front office help, and that all of this is going to make sense once it is done?

That is what I was getting after...

9:24 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>

Blanda, Al is saying we have the perfect roster now to do things his way and win it all.
>>>


I musta missed this. Cite please.

9:26 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>
I don't want to double down on the 70's.
>>>


What makes you think the Raiders are doing this?

I feel like I am in a twilight Zone episode... where any semblance of reality has been replaced completely with falsehoods and make-believe scenario's... And people that need facts are treated like the village idiots.

Crazy stuff man... but I do admit its kinda fascinating. I can't wait to see what fairy tale will be made up next to make Al is nuts and all is lost!!!

9:36 AM  

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