Wednesday, May 05, 2021

Aaron Rodgers...

How many future top draft picks would you give up to get Aaron Rodgers?

Let me rephrase that: Would you trade Alex Leatherwood, Henry Ruggs and Clelin Ferrel (our top first round picks over the past three years) for Aaron Rodgers? I sure as hell would. I'm not saying that's a viable trade scenario, it just goes to show the supposed future value of picks presents a different psychology than the actual value of realized picks. We often see future picks as gold we need to hoard, even when we continually see that gold turned into silver or bronze. 

It very likely that Rodgers to the Raiders ain't going to happen, but it's fun to discuss. Word is that he'd like to head west, and there are few teams in the west that aren't set at quarterback.

The one that jumps out is the Broncos. That's something to consider as well as a Raiders fan. If Rodgers goes to Denver, we're suddenly in a division with Mahomes, Rodgers and Herbert, which would create a hell of a mountain to climb for the next three years or so until Rodgers tapers off. 

What would you give up to avoid that situation while adding a talent like Rodgers to the helm of our offense? 

Is that something you'd entertain, or do you feel it would be a fool's errand to even consider it? 

Bring your takes!


Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Posted this in the last one about the draft after the new take came up. Will reply to this take next.
Sandy and NY,
I think a lot of people under estimate the Zay Jones signing at WR, this is the most under-rated signing of the offseason. I'm super excited about that one. The Casey Hayward and Yannick signings were huge too. Don't rule out Tanner Muse at LB either. He was injured last year and didn't get on the field, but he was a steal in the draft. I think he is going to be a play maker for that group.

Amik Robertson struggled last year with the playbook, because of other players being out of position. He has spent the offseason with the new DC, Addison Lynch, and the playbook, and I think he is still one of the top young CB's from the draft last year. He is a solid guy who struggled last season due to lack of coaching and accountability of other players.

As far as Leatherwood, the reviews have really been mixed. At the time of the pick, I was disappointed mainly because of who was left on the board. I still have mixed feelings about it, but it is a lot similar to the Kolton Miller pick. Miller was stellar his rookie season, and struggled because he was playing through an injury. If Leatherwood turns out to be similar, then the Raiders struck gold. So, that is the scenario I am hoping for.
I can be disappointed all I want, but it's the Gruden show, and he hasn't really given us much trust with his decisions. IMO, I'd still rather us have Barmore, and thought Dillon Radunz and Spencer Brown were better Tackle prospects than Leatherwood. Both are from smaller schools, have more to lose, and will fight harder than a 'Bama player coming into the NFL. Again, only my opinion.
Can't wait to see what the Raiders do this season, as the ol' saying goes, "winning cures everything." We fans, are in need of some curing. JUST WIN, BABY!

9:11 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

As far as Aaron Rodgers goes, not sure I would "break the bank" here to get what, one to three years?
For sure Derek Carr would have to be part of the trade, and then you would have to look at one or two future 1st rounders and another player, but would also have to bring in a few 2nd or 3rd rounders from them.
So here is what I think a reasonable trade would be:
Green Bay sends Aaron Rodgers and future 2nd round pick to Raiders
Raiders sends Derek Carr, Foster Moreau, and a future 1st round pick to Green Bay.

Now, I am ok with Derek Carr, and do not think we need Aaron Rodgers. A better trade scenario I would like to see is this:
Green Bay trades Davante Smith and 2nd or 3rd Round pick to Raiders
Raiders send Foster Moreau, Brandon Parker, Corey Littleton and 1st Round pick (same year as GB pick sent to us) to Green Bay.

9:27 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

That's a good one, RT.

On its face, I don't think I would trade the picks but when you say, would you trade Leatherwood, Ruggs and Ferrell for Rodgers, I have to admit the answer gets really blurry.

Rodgers is clearly and elite QB and, on a better team, could possibly pull off a Tom Brady-like run.

But I don't see that happening on the Raiders. They have too many holes and are mostly in a reset on defense and with their new offensive line. TB gave Brady a top flight defense and they gave him weapons of his choosing in Gronk and Brown.

Raiders have nothing close to offer, especially, on defense.

I can't deny that Rodgers would be fun to watch in a Raiders uniform. But the timing never works well for the Raiders. IMO, they are not ready for an elite QB with 1-3 years left in the tank.

Besides, didn't the Raiders nearly set franchise record scoring last year and still fall flat?

The Raiders problem isn't at QB.

1:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nate who is Davante Smith?


2:40 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I still carry the image of Gruden celebrating the Raiders season-ending win over the Broncos. That win sent the Raiders to 8-8 and averted another losing season for Gruden. It was a feel good moment for sure but with consequences. Sure, Gruden gave Broncos a chance to stop the Raiders 2-pt conversion but why would they.

Raiders and Broncos would have basically swapped draft slots.

Broncos drafted Patrick Surtain II, consensus best DB in the 2021 draft.

In a game of what-if, Raiders lose that game, draft Surtain in first and Leatherwood is still there in the second round. If not, oh well! There are still FA vet tackles available.

That's the kind of thinking I've been hoping for... Just like, everybody but the Raiders knew Cee Dee Lamb was better than Ruggs in last year's draft. Lamb is a legit #1.

Raiders have been their own worst enemy in terms of draft and free agency. Okay, maybe this year is different - we'll see. If it's not, something needs to change at the brass level.

3:14 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

My brain said "Davante Adams," I typed "Davante Smith." That is the level of stupidity my thinking is right now.

7:51 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Let the conspiracy theories fly. From PFT:

"Gruden has had no pre-draft press conference, no in-draft press conference, no post-draft press conference, no press conferences at all, no press conference during the current rookie minicamp, no interviews, no anything."

Last time we saw a HC disappearing act like this was Lane Kiffin... but for different reason. This time, Gruden's the boss.

"Meanwhile, G.M. Mike Mayock has been front and center, on multiple occasions.... Some believed that Mayock could be made a scapegoat after the 2020 season. Arguably, Mayock was saved by the fact that Gruden would have had a hard time finding someone as good or better, especially since he holds final say over the draft and all other personnel decisions."

Gruden channeling Al Davis?

Here's the article.

Watch the video too. Media has not been kind to the Raiders 2021 draft. The point made is that the Raiders can't keep reaching for players in the first round and missing.


Abram was another 1st round pick but he was regarded 1st round talent. "Why" is yet to be determined.

You can argue each one of these guys is a position of need, or that they are (or will be) productive but reaching is still reaching. Better players (of need) were available when the Raiders made these selections, so the overall value to the team is diminished.

It's the Raiders version of paying sticker price for a Corvette and getting a Chevette.

Consider this: In Gruden's three years back with the Raiders, prior to this year, he's had six 1st round picks, and 13 picks in the first three rounds. Add four more in 2021.

Maybe 2021 is the year it all pays off, but that's more draft capital than most teams (maybe all teams) over the same span.

Something has to give (in a meaningful way).
Either we see results of those efforts, or
There's accountability where it truly resides, or
The Raiders change the way they approach the draft....

Football is a war, and hope is not a strategy.

6:40 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Florio is a total douche and Raider Hater this article is literally creating a story where there is none.

Why would you ever even mention it. Do you enjoy it

7:56 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Obviously, Florio is not a Raiders fan but don't blame him for the Raiders being so bad in the draft. Raiders have burned through a lot of draft picks without much to show.

I get the media frustration with the Raiders. They'd like to ask Gruden why he continues to reach for players. I'd like to know that answer, but wouldn't expect Gruden to be candid and admit he's made mistakes.

Pro sports is a unique business, and the NFL in particularly, where organizations can make the same mistakes over and over and fail miserably for years with little or no consequence.

The Raiders supercharged this trait by having the fewest winning seasons in the league over the last 18 years while getting a state-of-art stadium practically gifted to them and having their organizational value more than double.

That's a special talent all by itself, and one that could never survive in another private industry.

At least for now, the bar remains low, and Gruden quietly squeaking out fair to middling seasons appears to be good enough.

5:26 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Club seating is cool (link below). Not sure what options are available throughout the stadium but if you only go to a game every few years, like I do, it's worth spending a little extra for the right seats.

Club level at Giants stadium is really cool. You get a ticket in the stands (mid-field area) and access to open indoor space with glass wall view of the stadium, TVs, seating areas, full-service bar, food venders, etc. Best steak sandwich I've had in a long time.

I can't wait to go to Vegas to see a game.

2:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NY, I found that soft and cheesy, I am not sure how would feel about couches, bottle service and a DJ in the end zone. Whatever happened to the black hole.


5:03 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Lol. True. That's why I suggested other options and pointed out the Meadowlands. They do it right. It's not so exclusive (with u-shape couch sections), and the ticket prices aren't all that much higher. I would hope Vegas has something similar.

3:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah the prices look crazy throughout the stadium. I think that club in the end zone has caused us to go from the balck hole to a bunch of a-holes.

On another note NY, have you seen the early info on the schedule? Monday night home against Baltimore to start the season and Raiders at Cowboys for Thanksgiving. Somewhat disheartened to see the raiders as 6 point underdogs at home to the Ravens.


9:31 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Florio and Chris Sims at PFT both hate the Raiders. Sims despises Gruden too, so he has a double grudge. When they report on the Raiders it is through their hatred. I started reading them a few years ago, and after the articles on the Raiders continued to spew hatred, I quit. If they cannot report objectively on the Raiders, then they cannot report objectively on any team, so their "news" is click bait opinions. All of it. They are worse than the ESPN homers.
With that said, Gruden has always struggled with drafting, even in Tampa. He has struggled more so than McKenzie did. Let's look at why though. He drafts and builds a roster based on his system, rather than the strengths/weaknesses of the player. But the view of the "Raiders reaching for this pick" is kinda tongue in cheek. Alex Leatherwood was not a sexy name pick of the list. The "draft experts" go by best available talent, not need, not best fit for the team (necessarily), from what they speculate and perceive, and definitely not from pre-draft interviews.
So when you read their reasoning of grading the pick low, it is mainly because they viewed him going in the second round; but look at some of their statements too:
"Leatherwood has experience at both guard and tackle against the top competition ..." Luke Easterling who graded the pick a C-
"GM Mike Mayock has shown a strong preference for players from blue-blood programs, and Leatherwood's track record at Alabama certainly quailifies." Rob Rang from Fox Sports who graded the pick a C.
"To be fair, Leatherwood is the reigning Outland Trophy winner and has guard and tackle versatility." Brent Sobleski from Bleacher Report who graded the pick a F.
All of the criticism from these armchair draft experts are sour because they had "him going in the second round." Nothing is said about the kid's talent as being the reason. The Outland Trophy is the award given in the NCAA to the athlete that is determined to be the best interior lineman. Think about it, it is the MVP Award for interior lineman in the NCAA, and Leatherwood won it this last year! With that said, the reason why I feel Dillon Radunz and Spencer Brown were better prospects is because they were from smaller universities who have outshined some of these guys from "bigger" universities, and they never had a shot at rewards like the Outland Trophy (think Gene Upshaw effect). I did look at the #17 pick as the best athlete on the board, and still think that Barmore would have been the better pick there.
After looking more at Leatherwood, however, I think he deserved to have his name mentioned there. He has played Left Tackle, but has also played Guard on both sides of the ball in his college career, and played them above average! So, he is extremely gifted as a lineman, and Cable can work with that. Another thing these "experts" consistently say is "he will have to prove the doubters wrong" yet he has every tool to do just that. I think these guys are going to eat their words. I'm already eating mine after watching film and doing a little more research on him. Welcome to the Nation Leatherwood, and JUST WIN, BABY!

10:02 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Thanksgiving in Dallas is a rare treat for the Raiders. I'll be glued to that one, at home with all the fixings!

1:34 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Based on Win-Loss records from last year, the Raiders are reported to have the toughest schedule in the NFL for 2021.

How does this happen to the Raiders so often, because it seems like they recently had the same issue? This is a team which can't break the 8-8 barrier. I thought the NFL has some formula to prevent this from happening to bad teams... another attempt to create parity in the NFL which the Raiders continue to defy.

9:04 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Quite honestly, I think the Raiders ask for it. I think they want to play the best. In order to be the best, you must beat the best. Another part has to do with the strength of the AFC West too. So I wouldn't look too much into that, and I really wouldn't have it any other way either.
On a different note, I don't know if you have been following, but MLB came out and recommended that the A's look to relocate out of Oakland. Oakland now stands to lose all 3 of it's sports teams. First, the GS Warriors, then the Raiders, and now the A's. I have some very strong feelings against the A's at this point because of how they maneuvered with the Raiders' negotiations with the city/county. The Raiders had 5 different proposals for stadiums/shopping complexes in the area where the A's are trying to build, and funded all by private companies asking the city/county for tax breaks; much like the A's are doing now; and the A's blocked the move by signing a 10 year lease with Oakland/Alameda for the current stadium. Now they are getting a taste of their own medicine. I hope the city sticks it to the A's the way they did the Raiders and Warriors. I also hope they try to relocate to Vegas and the Raiders block the move. The A's thought they could get the Oakland market to themselves, but are now getting the same shaft that the city's politicians gave the Warriors and Raiders. In the end, however, it is a lose-lose-lose for the people of Oakland.

9:49 AM  
Anonymous Ghost Ship said...

just wanted to comment on the original topic.

i would give less for Aaron Rogers, then Raiders gave for Carson Palmer.

Hows that!

5:27 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Didn't Hue Jackson orchestrate the Palmer deal and overpay out of desperation?

Trading for Rodgers only makes sense if he can play defense too.

7:00 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

RPT: "Gruden is ranked at 10-1 to be the first NFL coach to be fired. It’s the fourth lowest (best bet) behind Mike McCarthy of the Dallas Cowboys (15/2), Vic Fangio of the Denver Broncos (8-1), and Matt Nagy of the Chicago Bears (17-2)."

That's absolutely ridiculous and completely uninformed. The Raiders just began another reset on defense with the hire of Gus Bradley. He gets at least one year to "reimagine" the D with absolute impunity.

I'm floored by the stupidity of any assumption that Gruden could be fired.

I'll give 10-1 odds myself... all day long!

2:26 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

He can blame the defense all he wants, but his offense took a dive last season too. The running game disappeared, and his play calling had no creativity (almost like Olsen was calling plays). He has plenty of blame, and there is the possibility, especially if the defense steps up big this season and the offense struggles. But like you, I will take the 10-1 odds too. Mark Davis will not fire him

12:23 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

"On Sunday, May 23 at 10:10 local time, former wide receiver for the Los Angeles Raiders, Mark Pattison, successfully reached the summit of Mount Everest and became the first NFL player to complete the Seven Summits of the world."

Geez! What an amazing accomplishment, but no thanks!

That might be bigger than his football career. Really remarkable.

4:10 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

That's an awesome accomplishment.
I'm ready for the season to start. Disappointed a little about Julio Jones going to Tennessee, but I heard he is wanting a new contract, when he signed one last season. The last 3 seasons, he has wanted to re-work his contract for more $$. I am keeping my eye on that.
Hope everyone is well. Just Win, Baby!

7:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Raiders and maybe a few others, haven't looked at HBCU players. Now, its' good to be pumped up about the job Mayock has done but I don't think the Raiders are in KCs' level yet and Denver looks very good on D.

There is one HBCU guy whose been out of college for three years. He had to go play in the AFL because no NFL team even gave him a tryout.

Carlo Thomas is a player with the Charolette Thunder. He should be in the NFL.

Yea, I know college stats don't mean a guy can play in the NFL. But Thomas is 6'2" and had 22 career picks at Johnson C. Smith U.

He then had to sign with the AFL if you wanted to play pro football. He was an ALL-Star his first year in the AFL.

The Raiders will sign guys who missed lots of time in college and didn't get to start a few years. They need help and giving Thomas a tryout could be a huge move.

8:36 PM  

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