Sunday, October 20, 2019

Packers Gameday Thread

Raiders looking legit through one quarter. Make it happen, keep heat on the Chiefs, win the West! GO RAIDERS!


Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Carr drops the ball out of the endzone like he did against the Cowboys. The Packers go downfield for a TD to put them up 21-10. Come on Carr, duct tape that ball to your hands bro.

Overall, a great game, but bad officiating. Anyone knows if these are the same officials that did the Lions/Packers game last Monday night? Come on Raiders, JUST WIN, BABY!

11:42 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Nate, "a great game?" Raiders got torched. They surrendered the ball three times at or inside the packers goal line. The defense was horrible. They couldn't buy a stop. Rodgers had five passing TDs and one running. Packers receivers were wide open all day long.

Carr's fumble through the end zone was demoralizing. He obviously didn't learn his lesson last year. Raiders probably don't win that game anyway but Derek Carr has to be smarter than that.

So the Raiders are 3-3. Three grind-it-out wins and three blowout losses.

1:22 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

I was talking more about the first half, when the Raiders were in it. After the fumble at the goal line by Carr, and the Packers starting the 2nd half with a TD, it got away quickly from the Raiders. It started good, ended not so good.

But there was a lot of good in this game. Still with no #1 WR, Carr took the Raiders down the field a lot like a great QB should; but a lot of mental errors prevented this from being a closer game than the score indicated. 3 turnovers in the Red Zone for DC didn't help, one was a lob to Waller who was double teamed. If Carr had thrown a bullet, TD for sure. This should tell Gruden, even after a hard victory before the Bye Week, the Raiders should not get a Week off until they prove they can earn it with consistent wins. So there was "great" things in this game, but the Raiders couldn't capitalize on those things. When your defense made a few great stops, and the offense turns it over, it is demoralizing for the whole team. Packers took advantage of all 3 turnovers with 3 TDs. That was the difference. Texans are next, and they lost to the Colts today. JUST WIN, BABY!

1:52 PM  
Anonymous Raider00 said...

Aaron Rogers is an elite Qb. Just can't make so many mistakes against him. He makes you pay for it.

Derek Carr is a very good Qb. He did the best he could with his limited abilities.

Defense needs a lot of help on front seven. Nothing can be done about this until the off season.

Hey, the Raiders have a rare road game next

4:26 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Jerry McDonald tweeted yesterday, "Bears discovering this year what #Raiders learned. Just because you've got a great passer rusher doesn't mean you've got a great team. Or even a good one."

I responded, "Gruden discovering that just because you have a great offense doesn't mean you've got a great team. Or even a good one."

Definitely need help on the defensive front. I would love to see what our DT's could do with a good DE who disrupts and gets double-teamed. Our DT's are strong, and they are the one's being double teamed now because we have weak DE's. Serious question here, is this the end of Paul Guenther era in Oakland? The defense looks better than last year, but they are giving up too many big plays. Conley, Worley, LaMarcus Joyner, and Joseph look lost in the Tampa 2; a defensive scheme worse than the Prevent-You-From-Winning Defense. Nothing makes me angry like sloppy football play, and sloppy football scheming. This is what we saw on the Raiders defense yesterday, sloppy. Again, offense did not do so bad, just 3 big turnovers in the Red Zone. Raiders score on those 3, it is a 45-42 win, or the way our defense played, a 49-45 loss. Time to do something drastic Gruden. Commit to Excellence or get out of the way.

I may be in Houston this next weekend on the sidelines with my son. I will be wearing my Carr jersey. Hopefully will get to interview Mark Davis, DC, and Gruden. I will know more definitively Wednesday or Thursday. I will keep you posted if it happens, super excited about if I will get to try my hand at Sports Radio. It is all dependent on the "higher ups" who make the call at my buddy's station. Even though they like my conceptual idea of what I am wanting to do, they are debating on if they want to use someone who already has radio experience. I've got my fingers crossed. JUST WIN, BABY!

7:19 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Raiders trade Conley to Texans for 3rd round pick (so figure mid- to late rounder).

Sure Conley has been burned badly at times this year but this is a bit surprising considering the Raiders lack of depth at CB. Who's better on the Raiders' bench? They couldn't just coach the kid a little longer? After all, he was a 1st round pick. CB is about the toughest position to acclimate in the NFL. Nnamdi Asomugha took several years to really make his mark, and he ended up being one of the Raiders best. Conley has only played a couple seasons, and was injured part of that.

And it's curious why the Raiders were so desperate to trade Conley to a team they play this week. Are they trying to lose the Texans game?

IMO, this move didn't make the Raiders a better team. By this standard, the next move will be Derek Carr... whose 2nd career fumble reaching a ball into the end zone was as boneheaded as it gets.

12:58 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

I am ok with this move. I don't think Conley will be anything like Asomugha. He is still on the Raiders' official Depth Chart, but I will be excited to see Keisean Nixon get a chance on the outside. He tore it up in pre-season. Reports are that Trayvon Mullen will replace him, but I think he will stay in the slot, Nick Nelson may also take the spot; but I hope it is Nixon. Rumor is the Raiders are looking to make a trade to add some players. This was a good trade to get draft value and open a spot on the roster. We will see. I don't like that we traded him to a team we are playing this weekend. Not like he could stop DC anyway....

1:20 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

"Not like he could stop DC anyway...."

Hope that's not a jinx. Carr is no Rodgers, who had like 4 passes over 20 yards before the half.

One thing for certain, Gruden has no patience and is quick to pull the trigger on a player. Look no further than Mack, and all three of the Raiders starting WRs who Gruden traded for or signed this past off-season.

2:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Nick Nelson did not make the 53 man roster. Are you thinking of Nevin Lawson FA signing this year from Detroit. He probably steps up in place of Conley


3:35 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Word is Mullen steps in. Nixon plays aggressively and seems to have skills to play man coverage but he's 4-5 inches shorter than Mullen who was Gruden's 2nd rd pick. So he's next man up.

3:41 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Yes, I am thinking of Nevin Lawson.
Nixon is a man guy, and we need a tough man guy on the outside. I can also see that working in the slot, or on the TE in a nickel situation. Just get Nixon out there to make some plays, and get a spark on defense.

6:13 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

The 2013 #3 overall pick, Dion Jordan (DE), is coming off a suspension for Adderall. He's been to rehab and is sober, is a free agent looking to sign with a team. Could be a player that the Raiders sign, especially with Arden Key being out. I'd give him a shot.

6:46 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

RIP Willie Brown

12:08 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

You guys see the Raiders lost Rush off the practice squad? Would rather have Rush than Liuget on the roster. If we're going young, let's do it and focus on getting better for next year. Even if the Raiders can make a playoff run this year, they proved they cannot compete at a level with Chiefs, Vikings and Packers after those three blowout losses.

12:22 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Sad day! Willie Brown was a great player and a class act.

12:27 PM  
Anonymous Raider00 said...

I've been watching college/nfl, football since early 1970's. This is the worst coverage by db's I can recall.

The db's today never turn their heads around to see the play. It looks like they are coached from college, to wait for receiver to make a catching gesture, and then react. But by then, it's too late.

They have their backs to the Qb all the time.

Just thought to mention this today as the great Willie Brown passes away at age 78. Old man Willie, he's going all the way.

12:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

RIP Willie Brown. A great player, a true Raider and as NY pointed out a classy guy.

The first superbowl I ever watched was Raiders Vikings in Jan 77. I was 8 years old and that was the catalyst for me becoming a Raider fan and 42 year and counting love affair. I still get chills when I see Old Man Willie taking it the other way on NFL films. Sad to see him go at a relatively young age but at least he did not suffer health issues in his middle age like so many other NFL players.

Its sad that all the great Raiders are dying.

NY, I concur on Rush he looked like a monster in the preseason--though that may not count for much. I would rather have used a roster spot on him than Kizer.

On a more positive note the turnovers in the red zone aside the offense looked amazing against a legit top 5 defense. The Raiders moved the ball at will for the second game in a row. If they get a WR or two they could be unstoppable. Defense is another story.


1:40 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

After a month of saying he was not on the trade list, the Doncos traded Sanders to the 49ers. This has me interested in seeing what they are going to do with Von Miller; who is also said to not be on the trade list. I don't think they would ever trade Miller to the Raiders, not without a hefty price, but if I were Mayock, I am at least having a conversation about it.

Other players I am keeping my eye on is DeVante Parker (WR, Dolphins), Shaquil Barrett (DE, Tampa), Terrell Suggs (DE/OLB, Arizona), Josh Norman (CB, Washington), Janoris Jenkins (CB, NYGiants), and Patrick Peterson (CB, Arizona). Out of this list, I am really interested in DeVante Parker and Shaquil Barrett. Although, I wouldn't mind Josh Norman either.

As far as the Raiders trading players, we know Conley is gone, and Rush was picked off the Practice Squad. There are rumblings that if the Raiders were thinking about releasing Derek Carr, now would be the time to make a trade, and get a few high round draft picks for him. I personally do not think this will happen, but I felt the same way about Mack; and Gruden surprised the crap out of everyone with that. It is also well known that Gruden likes Glennon and Peterman; and probably has his eyes on drafting Clemson's QB. So if Gruden and the Raiders were ever thinking about letting Carr loose, it would be now while his trade value is high.

7:03 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Trade value is relative because draft positions are unknown. There can be a huge difference between picking 5th and picking 25th. Although, Gruden didn't seem to care about that when he traded Mack.

Carr may not be on a short leash yet but the season is long from over. Suffice to say the Raiders don't have a viable QB option in front of them at the moment. Yet, based on his play so far this year, Carr's prospects for return next year are anybody's guess.

10:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


It must be hump day cause you are particularly negative. Based on his play this year. What do you mean? Carr has been well above average and a times elite. Compare Carr to Mariotta and Winston and thanks our lucky stars. There are only a handful of elite qbs. Below that we are lucky to have someone above average on a very reasonable contract. Would you rather have Goff and his 10 mm per year more contract than Carr, I say no way.

How can you blame Gruden for where the Bears finished? Like you or anyone else were predicting them to win their division vs. a San Fran losing their QB and being terrible. Get over the Mack trade already. Why not recognize some of the great things Gruden has done. His offensive play calling and game planning has been brilliant, how about Darren Waller, Gruden found him, Jacobs, Trent Brown, Moreau etc. He and Carr are working magic without a number 1 or 2 WR. When you argue otherwise it is intellectually dishonest. I much prefer the NY post Bear win, you almost seemed happy for about 48 hours---lol.

Nate, Josh Norman he is on steep decline and way overpaid for his play. Parker is intriguing, Barrett is probably not being traded and is FA next year.


12:06 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Sandy, if you're only looking at Carr's stats, perhaps he looks above average to you. But Carr has been in three blowout games which his stats were padded in junk time, and he is at the bottom of all NFL QBs with passes thrown over 15-20 yards (despite having good protection!). Rodgers had as many long passes in one game than Carr has all year. And Carr's bonehead play (for the 2nd time) fumbling the ball into the end zone was inexcusable. Even Carr would agree.

And where did I say I blame Gruden for the Bears record? Nate mentioned rumblings of a trade involving Carr implying now would be the time to trade. I made an obvious point that trade value based on draft picks this early in the season is unknown... just like it was unknown when Gruden traded Mack before last season. IMO, unless some team gets desperate and overpays for Carr, the Raiders are better off waiting out the season and making a trade that makes sense relative to some plan to replace Carr... not trade now on a whim.

Sorry, the Raiders are 3-3. Good things have come in batches but I'm not seeing the brilliance of it just yet. I'll keep rooting for the magic to happen.

12:46 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

NY-Trade value at this point is looking at rounds, not numbered selection; even when the Raiders shipped Mack. Sandy-I'd take Josh Norman over Worley any day. Barrett is a possible candidate because he's a Free Agent, and the Bucs want to get value.

As far as DC goes, he has had his best season so far as a starting QB. He is about to place himself in the top 10 QBR (of QB's with over 100 attempts) in the League for the first time in his career. He is in the middle of the field with yards, TD's, and is tied with Brady at #13 in fewest INTs (again of QBs with 100+ attempts). He is ranked at #19 in TD passes with 8, averages about 235 passing yards per game, and that is without a #1 WR. He is having a career year, but the wins aren't there, so he's being overlooked. Put him on a team like the Rams or Bears, and they are undefeated, and he'd be a candidate for MVP. Just for comparison, he has more yards, TD passes, a better QBR, and less Interceptions than Jimmy Garrapolo (who's team is undefeated); and everyone is raving about Garrapolo having a terrific year. So don't let the Raiders' record speak for DC's play. Yes, he makes some bone-headed plays; but he is back to his old form, and you can see that competitive spark back in his eye; and the attitude of "I'm-going-to-do-anything-it-takes-to-win" back. I will take that over Baker Mayfield, Mariota, and Winston any day. It's not just the stats, it is his understanding of his position and the responsibilities of making the right calls for protection, routes, and passing reads. He is not passing the ball long because he doesn't have a true #1 WR who can stretch the field. But he is an above average QB in this league.

1:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Well said on Carr especially he aint Rogers he aint Wilson but he has zero true starting caliber WRs and the ones he does have change every week. All that and we are 3-3 with a brutal schedule two wins against playoff caliber teams where the Raiders were huge underdogs.


The Raiders have a smash mouth playoff caliber offense that will only get better, accept, embrace it, love it


2:56 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Nate, your key words, "at this point." My point, exactly. Why make another big trade for the uncertain? A top 5 pick is not valued the same as a bottom 5 pick during the draft. So, speaking to the Raiders, why disregard that now?

Regarding Carr, I know you guys are watching the same games I am, so I'm a bit confused why both of you grading Carr on stats. Half of three blowout games (~25% of Carr's snaps) were garbage time when defenses were giving him underneath passes at will.

Carr's woes are Gruden's woes and vice versa. As I said before, good things have come in batches, but there are plenty of failures too. Playcalling has been pedestrian at times.

The first example I gave was Carr's lack of down field throws.. which doesn't always need a completion (PI is a good result too). I'll give you another example. Raiders have one of the best running games in recent memory. Jacobs is a stud and has been running over defenses.

So where's the play action?

Raiders have among the best rushing offenses in the league and probably use play action less than any team.

How do you make sense of that? Seems so obvious!

3:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Your comments dont make sense to me.

How come every writer over the past few weeks and every broadcaster has been singing Gruden's praises that he has been developing Carr, masterful at game planning and play calling all while doing it with a short deck (no Williams, no Antonio Brown etc.) and you a hard core fan are booing him.

I dont get it. Its too upsetting to read your negativity especially when it is nit picking or intellectually dishonest (pedestrian play calling--wtf---he is doing things with TEs that no one else is). Enjoy the ride, embrace the journey, look at things with a little more nuance its not zero sum. Gruden has made great progress this year in many ways. What do you like about what is going on with the team be specific? How do you feel about Waller, that is all Gruden he gave a guy suffering real human problems a second chance and unearthed the best TE in the NFL possibly--that does not move the needle for you?


4:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


I think we'd all concede that the first two losses (KC and Min) were blowout losses and classic examples of Carr stat-padding.

But a key distinction here for me that needs to be recognized is what has happened since... Gruden and the offense have completely established a new identity. As Sandy accurately pointed out, this is now a mostly 3 TE set, downhill, punch you in the face offense. Set up to play to Carr's strengths vs. asking him to put the whole game on his shoulders and sling it all over the place.

I don't quite know why we waited 3 games to bring this bully out of the closet but by all indications its real.

There is no denying that Indy, Chi, and GB have upper tier defenses... and we ran through all 3 of them like shit through a tin horn. None of them stopped us... we only stopped ourselves with crazy self induced fumbles.

I think its inaccurate to bundle the latest GB loss in with Carr's other losses as stat padding. We put up 240 yards at half and probably should have been ahead by 3 or just down 4 at the worst. The only time they stopped us was the result of the bullshit Offensive PI call on Davis that nullified the big gain.

Then we took our first two possessions of the second half and shoved it down their throats some more for 150+ yards, one TD and then the nail in the coffin turnover on downs at the 1.

Up until that point we were in the game and completely unstoppable. Yes I know he inexcusably bungled the fumble. But make no mistake... the GB defense knew they hand their hands completely full.

Far cry from the KC/MIN debacles.

So with that being said, this is a bit of a tale of two seasons to this point. There is the "same old Raiders" from the first 3 weeks and then this new look bully who is out of the closet and ready to deliver a very physical brand of football. Complemented by some very creative uses of our TE's in both the running and passing game.

I have been down on Carr more than most anyone in the Nation, but I think he can be reasonably successful in this new look offense. Not sure he'll ever be the gritty all-in winner I've been looking for since Gannon. But I do think he will be more serviceable then ever before in this scheme.

Im not sure if we have the defense to make too much of a stir down the stretch against top tier QB's in a playoff setting. But with the schedule we have in front of us turning in our favor I think you're gonna see a very competitive team out there week in and week out. We'll probably be favored in 7 of the last 8 games we play and probably take a few of those teams to the woodshed.

This happened in Grudens last go around too. Nobody gave us much credit going into that 2000 season... but we finally found an identity that year which was eerily similar to this one. We rushed for 150 and passed for 220 in a lot of games that year. It was probably our most well balanced team from that playoff run.

I'm with Sandy. I'm liking what I'm seeing. Lets see how this thing plays out.


7:02 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Indeed, I like the 3 TE sets and think the TE trio has been great. I could go on about Jacobs and the Raiders O-line as well. I am not down on the entire offense nor the progress that's been made. Kudos!

But what's missing is worth pointing out, and should not be ignored for the sake of a little progress. Gruden is a QB coach and Carr is a 6-year vet. Throwing downfield opens the offense and occasionally draws valuable penalties - which the Raiders give away far more often than they receive. And play action seems so obvious when you have among the league's best running games. Yet the Raiders rarely do either.

Sorry to be redundant but these are not small issues. Other teams do these things against the Raiders with great success. Some QBs live on misdirection.

These things should come naturally to Gruden and Carr... but they don't.

Sure, it's very satisfying that the Raiders can line up in a power formation and gain a yard at will. Imagine how good the Raiders could be right now if they brought more nuance and misdirection to the rest of their offense?

In all fairness, Gruden has been talking about throwing more down field since training camp but has been stymied by attrition, injuries and lack of depth.

But watching Carr fake a hand-off is sometimes like watching a plane fake a landing.

Remember, Carr had good stats last year. Where did that get us?

So is Carr an elite QB based on his stats, or is he potentially trade bait?

Ironic how this conversation started with the notion Gruden is becoming impatient with Carr and might consider trading him before the deadline... which I don't believe will happen but I certainly won't dismiss the idea of Gruden trading Carr in the off-season.

Have a good day, gents!

4:56 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

"But what's missing is worth pointing out, and should not be ignored for the sake of a little progress. Gruden is a QB coach and Carr is a 6-year vet. Throwing downfield opens the offense and occasionally draws valuable penalties - which the Raiders give away far more often than they receive. And play action seems so obvious when you have among the league's best running games."

Again, with what speedy WR? The Raiders do not have a WR that can get downfield with ease for Carr to make that throw. As good as the O-Line is, they cannot block defenders off for 7 seconds or more for a WR to run downfield and try to get open. Now granted, if the AB situation had worked out in our favor, and he was still on the team and the Raiders were not going downfield, I'd be in agreement with you; but name a Raiders WR on the current roster who can run a 4.4 40? You might say Tyrell Williams here, but he hasn't played, and was limited in practice yesterday as he makes "steps in the right direction".

Play-action buys you a second, and would be good for a quick post, but again, we don't have a speedy WR on the roster right now that would make it work. Sorry to be redundant with this answer, but it is vital to the plays you want to see. Which is why I think the Raiders should be looking at Devante Parker; a speedy WR who can make plays to help open the offense up in this area. This is the reason they traded for AB, only to have it blow up in their face. This is better than signing DE Kasim Edebali (who?), who last played for the Bengals, has a career high of 5 sacks in a season (2016 with the Saints), and 8 in his career (since 2014). Raiders need a spark on offense and one on defense. Devante Parker gives the right spark on offense, and Shaquil Barrett would be a great one on defense. If they want to help out the young CB's the way to do it is with a pass rush (which is hard to find, according to Gruden after he traded our pass rush), which is what they are lacking. Get those two players, and the Raiders have a different team all together. The only other pass rush I'd try for is with the Doncos (Von Miller), who I don't think would trade to the Raiders.

6:47 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

By the way, don't know if you are keeping up with former Raider Keleche Osemele situation with the NY Jets or not. He injured his shoulder early in the season, the team docs told him he was fine. He went, got a second opinion and had surgery on his shoulder. The Jets have fined him around $597k per game he has missed as he recovers from surgery. This is why nobody wants to play for the Jets. I hope he and the NFLPA takes the ownership to the woodshed.

7:57 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The5er you write what I am feeling far more eloquently than I do, well said. Please join us more often, I need all the help I can get against my relentless buddy NY---lol.

NY, misdirection, I cant give you the specifics but there has been more than a few misdirection off of the zone blocks. Do you remember in the Bear game they had the entire line go right and then off o play action Carr threw a short dump completely to the left to Moreau or Carrier that went for 20 plus. I am sure Gruden will implement some screens etc with Jacobs when he is ready. Per Nate when your TE is your deep threat its hard to run PA to the deep post. It is a better bet to control down and distance and let Carr get the ball out quick rather than asking him to sit back there letting a play develop that we dont have the speed to run.


8:15 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

NYR being the devil's advocate here... but are you guys really suggesting the Raiders shouldn't bother with a fundamental tool like play-action?

And Nate, are you suggesting the Raiders can't throw downfield because of the difference between 4.4 and 4.6 speed? (Old man Jordy Nelson was their #1 last year!) You said yourself play-action buys you a second. That's all it takes. Done correctly (with the Raiders potent run game), it can cause LBs and/or safeties to hesitate or even take a step forward instead of following in coverage. That's huge. Suddenly, a "tall" Raiders' WR with less than ideal speed becomes single-covered or even wide open.

Plenty of CBs are 6' or less. Raiders have (and/or had) WRs who are 6-2 to 6-4. If these guys can't catch contested passes they shouldn't be on the team. Let's vet that out instead of making excuses, or just conceding it's not even possible. I'd like to see them at least try! I'll take a PI.

But even more globally than our discussion, when has Carr ever used play-action with any consistency? It's not like he's going to start using it once a speedy WR shows up.

My take is that Carr played 99.9% of his college snaps out of shotgun. He was once a gunslinger. But it doesn't appear anyone has ever pulled him aside and explained this fundamental QB tool. Because he sucks at it. I would hope that Gruden would at least see this flaw and correct it.

Sandy, Raiders have blocked well for run and pass. I am not suggesting otherwise. In fact, more reason the ball should be thrown down the field. Regarding the Bears (their terrible backup QB aside), that was easily the most satisfying game I've watched over the last couple years (for several reasons including and especially because the Raiders kept Mack out of the backfield). Unfortunately, it was followed by Aaron Rodgers torching the Raiders defense and Derek Carr giving us a repeat of his infamous end-zone fumble.

Curious, which team are you predicting shows up for the Texans game?

Cheers, guys!

1:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Haha you got it Sandy. Long time follower so I drop in a lot and read up on you boys - just don't always have the time to dive into the foray.

Yo RT, hope you are all brother. Tried to send you an email about a possible guest take... but it kicked back undeliverable.

You sill live on that address?

Let me know pal

The 5er

2:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Derek Carr on play-action this season for #Raiders per @sportradar: 24 for 28 250 yards, 1 TD, 0 INTs, 115.8 rating

6:40 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Thank you!

That simple stat line has more meat to it than all my posts combined on this topic.

Only 28x has Carr used play-action and he's lights out when he does. Funny thing is, he's not very good at it. Some QBs are so much better at hiding the ball at their side, ducking their head, turning away from the action and otherwise acting the part.

Sure, there's an element of surprise built into play-action. You can't do it all the time because it loses the effect.

But through six games Raiders have only run play-action less than 5x a game.

IMO, even when Carr hands off the ball he should pretend to still have it and continue to drop back like he's passing. D players focus on movement and little things like that trigger their reaction. Almost every player on D is watching the QB to see what he's going to do.

This should be elementary for a QB coach like Gruden.

Put it this way, no defense could defend an offense led by David Blaine at QB.

4:42 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Lol! Crickets on that play-action stat line?

Still no play-action needed?

Funny, when Aaron Rodgers loses his top WR but manages to throw 5 TDs and run for another, he says "I think there’s just such a young energy about this team.” But when Derek Carr struggles to find a WR more than 5 yards downfield the Raiders youth becomes an excuse.

You can say the Raiders have had some bad luck at WR but Gruden made his luck. He's the one who traded for Brown and signed Grant and Nelson. He hand picked these guys. He was 1-out-of-4 out of the gate with in his WR choices... Williams was the only smart choice at WR but, unfortunately, he's been injured.

But take another look at some of the young talent on the Raiders and ask yourself why they can't get the ball.

Keelan Doss and Hunter Renfrow were workhorses in college. Doss ended his college career with 115 and 118 receptions in each of his last two years. Renfrow averaged a more pedestrian +/-50 catches in each of his four seasons at Clemson but was known as a possession WR (a third-down guy). Gruden traded for Davis and Jones. Jones was another standout college player, and an early 2nd round pick of the Bills.

It's time all these ALL guys show up!

Last week, Carr started the game by overthrowing and otherwise missing WRs. That can't happen today and expect to win.

On the other side of the ball, Raiders secondary was a joke last week. They face another huge challenge this week. Watson is a downfield passer and he can run the ball... he has 5 rushing TDs this year!

So which Raiders team shows up today?

On paper Texans look like a mismatch for the Raiders, with their spread offense and a highly mobile QB. Their defense is tough up front but vulnerable in the secondary. Perfect, right?

Looks like another shoot-out... like last week was supposed to be but wasn't.

Maybe this week!


8:17 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I didn't know we were having a debate about the merits of play action in the passing game? Don't think any reasonable person here is (or has been) disputing that point? And I promise you, Gruden understands it as well.

I picked up the conversation where were pointing out that the Raiders were 3-3 but you aren't seeing any brilliance or magic yet... and that while Carr was showing solid statistical numbers, he was mostly stat padding in the blowout losses.

My point is that since the Indy game, this team has or is developing a new identity right in front of us... and with the difficulty of our schedule lately, I think its overshadowed our progress.

Indy, Chi, and GB all possess top tier Defenses. And we played all three on the road in tough environments.

The "Season 1" (pre bully) Raiders would have probably gone 0-3 in this stretch. Too reliant on Carr to carry us on his own. He just isn't that guy... especially against good defenses on the road.

But starting in Indy, Gruden put together this new identity, led by our boys up front, and started punching people in the mouth... where Carr can be more of a complimentary performer.

Everyone said maybe that was a fluke. That the Colts were without 2 key defenders and maybe we caught them off guard.
Surely we couldn't do that against the Mack show now that we had put that identity out there on tape. No more surprises. Then you know what? We did it again. We punched them in the face too. Against what was arguably the best front 7 in the NFL.

The Green Bay game was a bit of a setback you could argue. Yes some of those yards were put up after the game had slipped out of reach. But if you really look close at the first 3 quarters when the game was in the balance, we put up almost 400 yards and ran through and over them at will.

Point in all of this is to stay looking at the big picture of where we're headed.

Offensively we are really coming together nicely. Today will be our first game with all 5 intended starting linemen! With this balanced attack we can be a threat to any defense - anywhere. We have one of the best play callers and game plan designers in the game. No - none of this has passed him by. We are finally becoming who he wants to be. He will continue to expand and mold the plan each week to exploit their unique weaknesses. We have a very serviceable QB when you don't ask him to do too much by himself.

Lastly and most importantly, the schedule is about to turn in our favor. Do not underestimate the gauntlet we have been going through. Basically 5 consecutive games - against playoff teams - on the road. Its unprecedented in NFL history.

Like I said last post, we are likely to be favored in 7 or 8 (depending on Det game) out of the last 9 games on the schedule. And we finally get to start playing some home games in the coliseum, on our turf. If our defense can even be remotely decent... like force just a couple punts once in awhile... we will dominate some of these weaker opponents.

So.... Regardless of the outcome of today. I think we are going to be playing meaningful games the rest of the season. And that should be what matters most to all of us.

The 5er

10:04 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Some fair points.

Paraphrasing, I was told play-action wasn't that important. Yet, as you point out, it's a fundamentally important part of the game, and especially now that the Raiders actually have a running game.

So why would the Raiders use it less than 5x a game? Is that on Carr or Gruden?

As for stats, three games were over by the second half. That's approx. six quarters (up to 25%) of the Raiders snaps in garbage time with teams allowing underneath passes. My point, and I think it's a fair one, is that Carr's stats are padded... perhaps heavily. So my opinions are based more on what I'm seeing than what I'm reading.

I hope the remaining games are meaningful, as you say. But I have to wonder if Carr is really Gruden's guy (after Gruden jettisoning virtually all other pre-era players with a vengeance). If Gruden is calling play-action and Carr is not doing it, or if Gruden is calling downfield passing (which I believe he is) and Carr is not throwing downfield, this could be a long rest of the season until Gruden makes a change at QB... then another start-over process.

Still more questions than answers.

Let's hope today sheds some light.


11:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Go Raiders, playing well so far. Mack loses again LMAO.

2:31 PM  

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