Thursday, April 25, 2019

2019 Draft Thread

Thanks for keeping the lights on, amigos. Now it's time for the 2019 draft. 

Lots of speculation and head scratching about the Raiders these days. Let's face it, we'll find out soon enough if Gruden is just plain crazy--or crazy like a fox. 

One thing is for sure: he and Mayock need to hit on this draft. No excuses. You break it, you own it. We paid a price for stockpiling all of these picks, so there needs to be serious ROI on that. We have needs galore, gotta hit on these picks.

Obviously, the most intriguing aspect of tonight we be finding out where Derek Carr stands with regard to the makeup of this team going forward. Is he still a cornerstone, or will Gruden send up a flare that he's going to move on?

I should have trademarked "The Gruden Show." You heard it here first before the start of last season. We saw the prelude last year. Now the curtain is rising on the first act. Grab yo' popcorn, it's going to be a wild ride! 


Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

I have no worries about Carr. All of this talk about Carr has come after the Scouts were removed from the facilities; and nobody really knows what Gruden and Mayock are thinking. Gruden and Mayock master Al Davis' organizational mystique, and this drives the media crazy.
This whole first round is going to be wild, and I'm not sure anyone really knows what is going to happen. A lot of "experts" have Cardinals taking Murray on something Kingsbury said before he was an NFL coach. Rumblings are that the Cardinals/Kingsbury love Rosen. I don't really know what is going to happen, I have my opinion like everyone else, but I think this is going to be one of the best drafts in a long time.

10:32 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Take, you own "The Gruden Show" as far as I'm concerned. You could not have been more clear, and I fully believe that to be true, even with Mayock replacing McKenzie. Sure, there may have been a little tug of war while McKenzie was still here, but the dismantling of McKenzie's legacy draft picks speaks for itself.

For the most part, only Carr is left. And, yes, we will find out if Gruden is crazy like a fox or just crazy. Personally, I will be severely upset if we take a QB with any of our top 4 picks. We have too many needs, and QB isn't one of them... nor is chasing a dream.

If the Raiders trade back, I hope it's only a few slots. Otherwise, I prefer they use the #4 pick and select from the amazing talent at the top of this draft... best available on defense!

To the point, quantity isn't necessarily better than quality. Remember, somehow the Raiders have the daunting task of replacing Mack. While there's almost no chance to do that with the Bears pick at #24, the Raiders have the opportunity to have a really good draft with 4 picks in the top 35, plus use the Bears pick next year.

Note to Gruden: Please! PLEASE! Don't screw this up!

(Please be crazy like a fox!)

3:17 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

With the first pick of the 2019 Draft, the Cardinals select Kyler Murray. So disappointed

5:24 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

49ers select Nick Bosa

5:31 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Jets select Quinnen Williams, Raiders on the clock

5:40 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...


5:49 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

It's a safe pick and, most importantly, he's not a QB!

I'm a little disappointed the Raiders were unable to trade back a couple picks. They could have still drafted Ferrell.

But I'm happy with the pick. Key will get better with more talent on the line.

Would love to see Gary or Sweat fall to the Raiders.

Raiders might be turning to offense next, RB or TE... both positions of need.

5:58 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

I think Key should be an after thought after this draft. He overpursues, and is constantly out of position. I do not like Key. I'm happy with Ferrell, I don't think he was out of Top 10 among scouts. Yes, he had a terrible combine, but his private workouts were good.

Now I am hoping for Rock Ya-Sin and maybe Chris Lindstrom, and then a RB in the 2nd. I was really hoping we would trade down and get back to the 3rd Round, but I am happy with this, but it changes my picks. Chris Lindstrom moves up with the last pick of the first, and we draft a RB at #35, either Miles Sanders or Darrell Henderson.

6:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Okay so now is my turn to be somewhat negative.

I am totally fine with Clelin and think he will be a solid pro. However, it seems shocking they would not trade back and get him. Most had him going in the teens?

I am hoping for TE and DB with the remaining two


6:08 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

I agree Sandy, but maybe they knew something we didn't. That is what I always look at. I think the Packers were looking to take Ferrell, and maybe we couldn't get a trade before the Packers. Dolphins select Christian Wilkins, that is a totally Reggie move too.
Mock "experts" are giving it to the Raiders for the selection, but I said it a week ago that I thought Ferrell had the talent to be taken at #4 and not to fall asleep on him. Granted, I think Oliver was better, but I am happy with Ferrell.
I think the Giants selection of Daniel Jones (QB, Duke) was the most questionable pick of the draft so far, but the mediots are not even talking about the controversy.

6:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


I have been booing you a bit on the Ferguson thing, but credit where credit is due you did have Ferrell to the Raiders 45 posts or so back.

Don't get me wrong I think he will be as productive as Josh Allen, in fact I prefer Ferrell over Allen. That being said, I posted a few days ago that if Williams was not there they should trade out of 4.

Perhaps as you say they could not find a suitable trade and down and did not want to fall out of the first.

NY you got your wish a safe pick a little high at 4 but safe.

Okay who do you guys predict for their nex two?


6:54 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

I still am hoping for Rock Ya-Sin (CB, Temple) at #24. With Ferrell taken, I no longer think Ferguson will be #27. I was hoping for Chris Lindstrom, but he is off the board. I do not want Josh Jacobs, and hope he is taken off the board. I am hoping for Cody Ford (OG, Oklahoma), Connor McGovern (OG, Penn St), or Irv Smith (TE, Bama).

7:10 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Texans pick is in, Raiders on the clock

7:48 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Josh Jacobs, crap! Not happy with this pick because Saban abuses his RBs. Name the last Saban RB to do well in the NFL. Anyone???

7:58 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Raiders last pick in the first is Jonathan Abram (S, Mississippi St)

8:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Derrick Henry has done well. Check the number of carries on Jacobs he has had only one year of real carries no tread on those tires.

Solid pick for the 20s


8:29 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

After hearing Josh Jacobs' story on ABC after his pick, I am amazed! I am sold. I wasn't before the draft, but after hearing his story, sold! Great pick by the Raiders there.

I like this too. Josh Jacobs said that Jonathan Abrams (S, Miss St) is "a Thumper". Jonathan Abrams said Jacobs, "runs the ball extremely hard. He's always out there looking for contact, he runs through tacklers, can catch out of the backfield. I feel like he was the most complete back in this draft."

After dogging the Raiders all night for the Clelin Ferrell pick at #4, ESPN commentators on ABC gave them the best 1st Round of the night. I couldn't believe it. They had an amazing first round, now the players have to prove, no paper champions in this league. We will see what happens tomorrow and the rest of the draft. Amazing! JUST WON, BABY!

9:08 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Indeed, Ferrell should be a safe pick for the Raiders. I think what made Ferrell more attractive to the Raiders than Josh Allen was size and strength. Although, Allen and White (who was also available) are freakish talents which were more deserving of the #4 pick. Put it this way, it's hard to say the Raiders made the best choice by passing up on a guy who had 17.5 sacks in one season.

Would have been interesting if Sweat was still on the board when the Raiders picked 27. Sweat was selected the pick before. That was a big disappointment.

My hope today at #35 is guard or another edge player.

Nate, I hear what you're saying about Key, but he was consistently around the QB. He shouldn't be an every down player, which the Raiders were forced to do part of last year. He's a situational pass rusher. He'll get better.

3:47 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Here are some of the best options for the Raiders in Rd 2. PFT mock has them picking QB Drew Lock.

I'm hoping Edge (maybe Ferguson) or a guard. Maybe Pratt at LB.

Cody Ford, OL, Oklahoma.
Greedy Williams, CB, LSU.
Jaylon Ferguson, EDGE, Louisiana Tech.
Byron Murphy, CB, Washington.
Erik McCoy, OG, Texas A&M.
Lonnie Johnson, CB, Kentucky.
Dolphins: Mack Wilson, LB, Alabama.
Rock Ya Sin, CB, Temple.
Dalton Risner, G, Kansas State.
Jachai Polite, EDGE, Florida.
Elgton Jenkins, OL, Mississippi State.
Joejuan Williams, CB, Vanderbilt.
Germaine Pratt, LB, North Carolina State

8:45 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

The reason why I think they went with Ferrell over an EDGE player is simple. The problem with EDGE players, is they are built more for OLB, and work better in a 3-4 defense. Guenther loves guys who can play anywhere on the line, and Ferrell and Oliver are those kind of players. I thought Ferrell and Ed Oliver were the same kind of player, but there are a lot of scouts that grade Ferrell better. I thought Oliver was better because Clemson had a stout defense, and Oliver did not. Oliver was a lot like Mack, he had no supporting cast around him. But like Mack too, it didn't make him a leader who made others around him better. Ferrell is a leader, and was the leader of the Clemson defense.
At this point, if they go with an EDGE player, I would love them to pick Winovich. Ferguson is a straight up DE too. I am not sure they go defense here though. Losing Osemele and Feliciano this off-season puts us in a position to find a guard. Unless, they are thinking about moving Parker inside to Guard, and Miller to RT. Then my guess is CB, DE/EDGE, LB. If they go with an OG, I'd rather see Ford or McGovern over Risner. Going to be interesting and fun. I just wish we had a 3rd Rounder.

10:32 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I'm not a fan of strictly playing scheme. IMO, Guenther doesn't have that luxury because the Raiders aren't good enough. There's no way the Raiders can only rush their base four and still get to the QB with any regularity. Some say Mack couldn't change that, so there's no way Ferrell can.

This is why it might have been smarter to keep Mack.

Today I would select a guard at #35. Safe to say, Brandon Parker can't play guard. He can't play tackle, his natural position. In fact, we don't know yet if Kolton Miller can line up at right tackle and be better than Parker.

Still more questions than answers.

Day 2 wish same as Day 1..., PLEASE don't draft a QB. Too many "real" needs to address. Raiders may only have one more shot to draft a legit plug n play starter in 2019.

12:17 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Raiders traded twice and moved only five picks while picking up two mid-round picks. Meanwhile, the field of second round talent is still wide open.


Let's make a good pick. Best Available!


Lots of options!

4:44 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Treyvon Mullen? This is why they have scouts. Mullen was not 2nd round talent on some boards.

Again, this is why they have scouts. Hopefully, they know more than the Internet.

5:01 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Raiders becoming the new Clemson West.

5:05 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

They went with Mullen because Indy traded up and took Rock Ya-Sin, whom the Raiders were targeting. After he and Murphy went one-two, they went with Mullen who is a better CB than Greedy Williams. Williams can cover, but can't tackle. Great move to stay away from him by the Raiders. Clearly not their first choice, but a good choice given their hand.

7:14 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Patriots picked Winovich in the third. Great steal there.
I give the Raiders draft so far an A-. Josh Jacobs and Jonathan Abrams have stolen this draft. I really do love Clelin Ferrell at #4 too, despite what "Mock" Experts say. He was consistent, and THE leader on the #1 defense in college football for 3 years.
Can't wait for tomorrow. JUST WIN, BABY!

7:16 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Raiders could really use a guard, but need help at LB.

You can say TE is a need too, but nobody drafted now is better than Waller, who proved by the end of last year that he deserves a chance to be the Raiders top receiving TE.

I'm narrowing my wish list to LB/Edge and guard.

I notice ESPN depth chart has Trent Green playing RT and Miller staying at LT. Raiders didn't pay Brown record money to play RT. Miller is getting tossed to the other side. Right?

5:29 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Raiders have the 4th and 7th picks to start today...

9:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NY time will tell if the players are good but you have to be happy with the way Raiders have approached the draft from a needs perspective. Lots of DBs, a starting RB and a true DE and Maxx is a decent edge prospect you were hoping for today.

The best place for Raiders news is the Athletic and Vic Tafur has solidy maintained that Brown will be the RT.

The importance of LT over RT has diminished the last few years. If you look in AFC West Vonn Miller and Bosa line up over right tackle. I am concerned about Kolton and of course wish they would have taken Derwin James or not lost the coin flip to 49ers and gotten McGlinchey. That being said check out the stats on Miller pre-injury he was playing well in pass pro. let's give him another year before calling him a bust.

Have a good weekend

10:34 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

LT is critically important to cover the QB's blind side. Raiders made Brown the highest paid lineman in the league, so it seems a natural fit. I think the only way that doesn't happen is if Miller is incapable of making the switch. Just my opinion.

The draft has been a bit ho-hum. Seems like some safe picks but, to your point, mostly need... which is good! Have to rely on scouts to make the most of draft picks. Never heard of most of these players before yesterday.

I would have felt better about Ferrell if the Raiders could have traded back. Otherwise, I think I would have been more excited to get a freakish player at #4. That probably means Allen, or maybe White.

And what a big disappointment to miss Sweat by one pick later in the first round. Raiders could have passed on Jacobs and really stacked the DE position. That would have made more sense to me after a season with 13 sacks as a team.

Raiders made some nice trades in the 4th round, adding picks. But at the same time, there were good players available and they seemed uninterested. Honestly, what's the worth in adding 230th pick in the 7th round? Why trade back for that??

All and all, looks like the Raiders improved as a team. I'm excited to see what these guys bring. Let's hope there's at least 2-3 starters in the group... presumably, all of the first rounders.

11:18 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

CSNBayArea reports this on Maxx Crosby:
"Position: Defensive end
College: Eastern Michigan
Height: 6-foot-5
Weight: 247 pounds
Selection: Fourth round (No. 106 overall)
Scouting report

Crosby is a crafty edge rusher who needs some time to gain strength and mass. He has good hand use but doesn’t always translate speed to power and can’t push people around like some others at his position. He was a team captain and motivates easily.

Crosby was a productive small-school player, with 20 sacks and 41 tackles for loss in three college seasons, though most of his damage was done in the last two years. He ran a 4.66-second 40-yard dash, with other solid individual scores."

His weight is going to be an issue if they have him on the DLine, so I think he may be playing OLB, and with his speed, help put pressure on blitz packages. If the Raiders go with a late round DE that is still available, I'd go with either Michael Dogbe (DE, Temple. Dogbe is 6'3", 284 lbs. scouting has this on him:
"Dogbe was the 2013 Newark Star-Ledger Player of the Year as a senior at Parsippany Hills High School after racking up 145 tackles, 40 for loss, and 22 sacks. He played in four games as a freshman for Temple (making three tackles), but redshirted the season. Dogbe played in 12 games as a backup the following year (14 tackles) before getting the starting nod in nine of 13 games as a sophomore (43 tackles, five for loss, 1.5 sacks). His production dropped a bit in 2017 (26 tackles, two for loss) as he only started six of 12 games played. Dogbe bounced back in a big way during his senior campaign, receiving a first-team All-American Athletic Conference nod from league coaches after accumulating 72 stops and leading the Owls with 12.5 tackles for loss, seven sacks, and three forced fumbles."

I was looking at Jonathan Ledbetter (DE, Georgia) too as a potential pick, but reading his scouting report made me turn the page. A surprise to me is that Tyree Jackson (QB, Buffalo) is still on the board. It wouldn't surprise me if Gruden picked him last, or even sign him as an undrafted FA. Others still available that surprise me are:
Beau Benzschawel (OG, Wisconsin), Shaq Calhoun (OG, Miss St), Kris Boyd (CB, Texas), Corey Ballentine (CB, Washburn), Te'von Coney (LB, Notre Dame). Keesean Johnson was just picked by the Cardinals in the 6th round. Sheesh, the WR's got the shaft this draft.

12:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Looks like Mayock has a big part in the Grudenshow. Gruden may get paid the most, but we can see this is more than just Gruden. Once Mayock has the scouts in place that he wants, the Gruden show has some co stars.

I like what Mark has done as an owner, he got this thing on a high level now and will be a top franchise in Vegas. Raiders were as low as a franchise could get when Big Al left this place. Nobody wanted to touch the Raiders with a 10 foot pole.

Watching the team this off season and through the draft, the Raiders will be a contender soon. Just in time for Vegas. That Vegas hockey team sure is a success story, I would bet the Raiders will be one as well.

No more tears kids, Raiders got themselves a rock and roll's a free for all baby.

Raider fan

1:26 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...


Welcome to the Clemson Raiders!

Actually, my sleeper pick is Clemson WR Hunter Renfrow. What I've read is he's a sneaky slot receiver with good hands. A possession receiver that comes back to the ball and keeps the play alive.

Raiders had two of these guys last year (was really impressed that Gruden picked them up), then the Raiders cut them both.

And let me say this now, I hope Gruden doesn't push Chris Warren III out again this year. CWIII should be given every chance to be the Raiders' change-of-pace back. Big dude who can run down hill.

How many years do we need Richard and Washington on the same roster? Neither is starter capable. Let's keep one and give CWIII his shot.

Jacobs was not a full-time starter in college. He will need help!

1:49 PM  
Anonymous Wizard said...

Quinton Bell seems too small (light) for defensive end, any chance they want to switch him to linebacker, or even tight end?

9:34 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Overall, I give the Raiders an A-/B+ in this draft. Only the Colts, Titans, Patriots, and Cardinals had a higher grade in my book.

The Packers, Panthers, 9ers, Giants, Doncos, and Seahawks had the worst draft. If I was a fan of these teams, I'd be writing in some nasty notes. The Giants did get Corey Ballentine (CB, Washburn), but he was injured last night in a shooting that killed a Washburn teammate.

This draft was so weird, in the sense that every team went defense heavy. The WRs got the shaft in a major way this year. I think there were some potential HoF WRs that didn't go until the 3rd/4th round. Some of the QBs too.

As far as Quinton Bell, he will be a project. He's only played one year of football. It will be interesting to see what this Draft class does, along with the UDFA's we have signed so far. The Raiders have signed the following UDFA's:
Te'von Coney (LB, Notre Dame)
Ronald Ollie (DT, Nicholls St)
Andre James (OL, UCLA)
Dylan Mabin (CB, Fordham)
Alec Ingold (FB, Wisconsin)
Keelan Doss (WR, UC Davis)
Nick Coleman (S, Notre Dame)
Lester Cotton Sr (OL, Bama)

I think Coney, Mabin, Doss, Coleman, and Cotton make the team, maybe as Special Teamers. Overall, I am excited about the draft. I thought we had the best draft in years, and the first time we have made higher than a B grade, since I can't remember when (Remember, "Experts" gave the Raiders a "B" grade with the Mack/Carr/Gabe Jackson draft). Now they have to prove they are more than paper champions. JUST WIN, BABY!!!

12:40 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I think the Raiders drafted okay. Only time will tell, but I have a feeling it went much better than last year.

I liked them trading back in the fourth for more picks. My biggest criticism is that they did not draft a guard, though they had many opportunities. Taking a blocking TE in the 4th instead of a guard made no sense, IMO. After the top 2-3 TEs were off the board, the position had no meat left on the bone. Decent guards were there for the taking.

Unfortunately, same with LBs. Only a few standouts worth drafting. The drop off after that was significant. I watched the "best of the rest" LB from Alabama for 2 days, and nobody was biting.

1:45 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

This from Peter King is awesome:
"Thursday night. Round one. Pick 22 on the clock. Baltimore up, then Houston at 23, Oakland at 24, Philadelphia at 25. Two more picks for the Raiders to sweat out before they choose a player at 24 they’d targeted right here for the last three months.

'There’s been a trade,' someone in the Raiders’ draft room calls out. 'Philadelphia’s got 22 now. Eagles on the clock.'


The rookie GM running his first draft, Mike Mayock, froze. 'I’m like, ‘Sh–!’ Moment of panic. THE EAGLES JUMPED US FOR OUR GUY.' ... 'There goes our running back,' Gruden said. Coach and GM knew the Eagles loved the same player they did, Alabama running back Josh Jacobs, and now, moving up from 25 in trade, the Eagles would be in position to steal the guy Gruden had his heart set on making one of the three cornerstone players in his offense.

Thirty seconds passed, maybe. Mayock studied terms of the trade, and while he did, defensive coordinator Paul Guenther called out, 'Wait—the Eagles traded ahead of Houston too.'

That’s right, Mayock thought. The Eagles didn’t just jump us. They jumped Houston too. They went ahead of Houston to Baltimore.

'Wait a minute, Jon,' Mayock said to Gruden. 'I think this is about the tackle. They’re not going up for the running back.' ... Word on the NFL street was that Houston’s number one tackle was Washington State’s Andre Dillard. So the Eagles had to be angling for Dillard.

They were, as it turned out. Dillard to the Eagles at 22. We’re home free, Mayock thought. Tytus Howard to Houston at 23. And now …

'Can I call him?' said Gruden, suddenly a Golden Retriever, all bouncy and eager. 'Can I call?'

'Hang on,' Mayock said. The NFL had asked teams to please not choose till at least five minutes of their 10-minute first-round time limit had passed, so the league could do the TV-presentation stuff and not get the picks all backed up. With five minutes left in the period, Mayock said go ahead, call Josh Jacobs.

One cliché to consider right here is, There’s a new sheriff in town.

6:41 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Plenty of speculation out there that the Raiders could have waited until 27 to draft Jacobs, and that another D player or TE would have been smarter at 24.

Gruden is an offense guy, so it's no surprise he was anxious to make the pick.

11:28 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

I have a bold prediction, Te'von Coney will be a starting LB. I cannnot believe that he was not drafted, and I am excited the Raiders signed him as an UDFA.
I am still laughing at all these "Draft Experts" who continue to bash the Raiders for taking Clelin Ferrell at #4. They say that they picked him too early and could have traded down, but picked up a heck of a player. This from the same group of knuckleheads that had him all over the draft board, from as high as #4, to as low as #27. They couldn't even make up their own minds where to pick him at.

I have several opinions about this from reading numerous articles about the draft, Ferrell, and the situation at hand. #1-Packers admitted they were targeting Ferrell at #12. I still don't think the Raiders could find a trade partner between #5-11, and they wouldn't have had as much value left for swapping spots. Secondly, there are rumblings that the Jaguars (#7), Bills (#9), and Bengals (#11) were also targeting Ferrell. Third, if the Raiders did trade down, who's to say the Packers wouldn't make an attempt to trade up and shaft the Raiders; or one of the other 3 teams trump them both? Raiders were in the driver's seat at #4 to pick Ferrell, whom they clearly wanted, and got him. I wanted Ed Oliver Jr, but after the draft, I read ProFootballFocus article that Ferrell was graded higher than Oliver. The two are essentially the same player. Each one can play anywhere on the line, and the Raiders felt that Ferrell was not only a better fit, but a stronger leader (and so do some of the articles I read).

The only thing these "Experts" can really find to knock Ferrell being picked at #4 is that Clemson had an excellent Defensive Line (and the Raiders do not), and Oliver did not, so that made Oliver a better player. But listening to Dabo, and Ferrell's team mates, they all said Ferrell was the leader of the DLine, and the entire defense rose and fell on Ferrell's leadership.

These "Experts'" knock on the Raiders' DLine is not completely without merit, but it is also not a completely fair assessment either. What was the one thing the Raiders lacked last season on their DLine? A DEFENSIVE END!!!! Mo Hurst and Jonathan Hankins created a lot of great pressure up the middle that would help create a sack for a DE, if the Raiders had one. Arden Key would overpursue, and miss those opportunities, and I am not sure anyone played DE on the right side of the line. With Ferrell, hopefully Key and Crosby will be able to get it together, and revive the Defensive Line.

Bottom line, this was one of the most absurd draft's in recent history. It seemed like teams went for 3-4th round players in the first round, and 1-2 round players in the later rounds, while guys like Te'von Coney (LB, Notre Dame), Malik Reed (DE, NV), Jabril Frazier (DE, Boise St), and Keelan Doss (WR, UCDavis) went undrafted. It was truly surprising, and showed how much "smokescreen" these teams gave these "Experts" that left them baffled. Great times.

7:07 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

NFL Network commentary has been tempered by the fact that Mayock, their former colleague, scouted Ferrell. My take is that Mayock and Gruden may have placed too emphasis on Clemson because of their championships and on the Senior Bowl because they coached the North squad. By appearances, their scouting lacks depth.

The Raiders got (and I think deserved) a "B" grade for this draft.

I don't fault the Raiders for taking Ferrell, their guy, at #4. No trade partner, so trading down just didn't work out. The Giants might have have been their best chance but they were obviously okay with the risk of losing their QB pick (Giant fans were pissed off enough! Imagine if they traded up?).

My issue with the Raiders draft was overemphasis on the secondary (3 DBs), and completely ignoring G and LB. (Would love for Coney to be good enough to start but that's a reach.)

Suddenly, the Raiders secondary is too crowded (decent players will need to be cut) and LB and G are thin, at best, and more likely weak and lacking depth. Also, the Raiders had opportunity to draft a more proficient pass-catching TE. They are banking on Waller, who was signed off the Packers practice squad late last year.

Also, if you're compelled to keep three rookie DBs from your draft class, your final roster will lack experienced depth. It sometimes takes years for a good DB to develop. Maybe the Raiders can hide 1-2 players on their Practice Squad, but they have been burned doing that in the past.

If you haven't already, look up Jacobs' highlight package. Raiders haven't had a dual threat like this kid in a long time. Darren McFadden had flashes but injuries ruled his career.

11:14 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Pro Football Focus said this about Coney before the draft:
"Coney’s 90.5 coverage grade and 91.7 run-defense grade last season both ranked top-10 among all linebackers in college football." They also ranked him #3 Off-The-Ball LB pre-draft, behind Devin White and Devin Bush.

In fact, Devin White's overall PFF grade was a 90, and Te'von Coney's overall PFF grade was a 91.8, so even though PFF had D White and Bush ahead of Coney, Coney had the best overall grade, run grade, tackling grade, and passer rating grade out of all OLB's that PFF graded. Yet he went undrafted?

I know he didn't impress at the Senior Bowl or Combine, but even after the Combine, most scouts projected him to be taken as high as the mid-2nd Round, and as low as the high 4th Round. It is almost like teams forgot about him. I think he was overlooked because he is not an EDGE/LB hybrid like Allen, Winovich, Sweat, etc. He is a true OLB that can cover (like Phil Villapiano). What he lacks in size, he makes up with speed, intelligent reads, and athleticism. This is a terrific UDFA signing, one that I was hoping we'd make. Jim Nagy (ESPN Analyst) says the Raiders have signed 3 UDFA's that should make the 53 man roster: Te'von Coney (LB, Notre Dame), Keelon Doss (WR, UCDavis), and Alec Ingold (FB, Wisconsin).

I agree, the lack of depth at Guard is concerning. Stefen Wisniewski is still available, maybe we can make a run for him again. He did terrific in Philly, and was terrific for us the first time round. Mike Remmers (Vikings) would also be a good pick up.

Don't forget the Raiders signed Brandon Marshall and Vontaze Burfict. I have seen a lot of local writers (Vic Tafur, Scott Bair, Jerry McDonald) say Trent Brown will be our Right Tackle, Miller our LT, and from the pictures of the OTA's it looks to be the case too. I am also hearing rumblings of Brandon Parker moving inside to Right Guard, and Gabe Jackson to left. But you cannot forget about Chaz Green who stepped in for Osemele and Feliciano when they went down too. He did a fabulous job, and was HUGE for us.

I am finally a little excited about the Gruden Show. JUST WIN, BABY!

1:06 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

The Gruden Show Haiku:
Gruden broke my heart
Could not see his master plan
Now I have a clue.

1:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Guys I think Chaz Green will be the starting RG. Per Nate he has the size and played well last year. Depth could be Kirkland, team can nto tie up too much at guard given the money Jackson makes same goes for LB.

What do you guys know about Quiton Bell, I know 7th rounders usually dont make the team but this guy is a fascinating story, a former WR he has size and runs like the wind.


2:42 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Wasn't it Danzelle Good that filled in for Osemele? Green may have filled in for Jackson... I believe. The guys playing OL at the end of the season all deserve medals. Some played through injury. That was the best line play we saw from the Raiders all year.

Jackson was a left guard in college, and only moved to RG to make room for Osemele after he was signed. Moving back to LG should be an easy transition for Jackson.

For what it's worth, I still find it a bit odd that the Raiders would draft Parker in the 3rd round to play RT but when that failed, pay the next guy the highest salary ever for an offensive lineman. IMO, if Brown ends up at RT it's only because Miller can't switch sides. I'm sure it's difficult, foot work, etc. Penn couldn't do it.

4:41 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Crowell out for season with achilles injury. Very unfortunate but opens the door for Chris Warren III. Also, Raiders should immediately re-sign Bulter.

7:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who is Bulter

2:16 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Marshawn Lynch says he'd play for Raiders if asked.

ball security
pass blocking

too one-dimensional (lacks speed to the edge and poor receiver out of the backfield)
he can be reckless in terms of attitude and actions

IMO, it's time to roll the dice on young talent, which the Raiders clearly have at the position.

2:26 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

"Butler" was a practice squad player for the Raiders who they just cut to make room for undrafted free agents. Of course there are other RB options but, at a minimum, the Raiders will need camp and pre-season RBs to keep from overplaying Chris Warren III again. Last year, Gruden left him on the field thru 1st, 2nd and 3rd teams... to the point of injury. Then he went on IR.

4:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Similar to you be impressed by Keon butler, I think you need to take a large grain of salt with how a player performs in pre-season re Chris Warren.

To me Warren is one-dimensional, downhill power runner. He lacks, hands, blocking ability, speed to the outside. There is a reason he went undrafted and barely played during college.

The Raiders would be much better off with Doug Martin as the back up to Jacobs now that Crowell is out. I dont see him or Washington making the team given neither plays special teams.

As usual you overlook Lynch's excellent leadership qualities in your list.


5:21 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...


Re: Butler. I only said the Raiders need bodies for camp and pre-season. I never even implied Butler is someone the Raiders can rely on.

Re: Warren. So you don't want to give him a chance? Gruden's biggest criticism of Warren has been his pass blocking and chipping defenders. He also needs work finding lanes and pass catching. But when he has the ball, he's been lights out. That's worth a look! No?

Re: Lynch. Clearly, we disagree on this point. I don't think getting thrown out of a game and being suspended for conduct demonstrates good leadership. Good leadership is knowing when and where to draw the line.

Fortunately, these are relatively small issues that the Raiders will likely vet.

9:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Sure I would be open to giving him a chance to fill a Zack Crockett type role, if he could play special teams as well..


2:21 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Raiders resigned Doug Martin. Martin is ok, and tell the truth, Richard played better than Martin. Martin is a quiet leader though, and overall good dude to have around. He's not vocal like Gannon was, but his work ethic is comparable to Gannon. He is someone who fits the "leadership" mold that Mayock and Gruden like. I'm ok with that.

As far as Lynch, I don't know. He is such a talent, but has become one-dimensional himself. Everyone knew he would get the ball, and didn't have hands out of the backfield. That showed on quite a few plays last season. Also, Donald Penn was on earlier talking about Marshawn, and how he and Marshawn were jawing and poking fun at each other. Marshawn told him, "Better watch out. Next play Ima run yo ass over." The next play, Lynch appeared to step through a major hole for a big gain, only to juke out of it just to run over Donald Penn for a 3 yard gain. Donald Penn laughed about it on air, and said "Marshawn was always like that, clowning around during games with his teammates, it is what made the games fun."

Lynch took away a potential TD run, just to run over Penn? Those are the kind of plays that hurt the Raiders the last few seasons. From Penn's statement too, Lynch did stuff like that all the time. Good runner, future HoF, but doesn't give a rip about anyone but himself. Not sure I want him back.

7:38 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I don't think Lynch left Seattle on good terms. Sounds like some folks there had had enough of him. Then he kinda showed us why in Oakland... at least in flashes.

I have more admiration for Martin after putting up decent numbers last year. He's a fairly well-rounded RB.

That said, he fumbled at the worst possible times, i.e., when ball security should have been a top priority. That's a lack of awareness, IMO.

I don't like this move. Another preseason for Martin to sit in a glass bubble on the sideline and expose other guys to injury who should be viewed (or vetted) more effectively for the Raiders long-term plans.

Assuming the Raiders are trying to rebuild and 2019 is an important transitional year, why bring back the same tired players?

10:09 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...


The fact that Martin was signed and not Lynch, who stated he wanted to return if the Raiders wanted him, speaks volumes... the Raiders didn't want him.

Maybe that goes to the issues discussed above.

10:10 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Raiders signed undrafted wide receiver Keelan Doss, who played at UC-Davis and had 118 catches for 1,334 yards last year and 115 catches for 1,499 during the 2017 season.


How does this guy go undrafted? 233 catches for almost 3k yards in two seasons is no accident. I don't care where he played, he's a receiving machine and worth a close look.


It's kids like this the Raiders should be looking at closely, and not re-signing Doug Martin and others that had their moment (chance) in the NFL.

Time to move on!

2:49 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Keelon Doss was overlooked because of the depth at WR market. We got lucky that he's home-grown and wanted to be a Raider. Just as exciting is Te'von Coney (LB, Notre Dame). I'm not sure how he went undrafted, but we signed him. Those 2 could definitely be starters on this team.
It's official, Gruden announced that Trent Brown will be at RT, and Miller will stay at LT. Also, Gabe Jackson will remain on the right side at Guard, and the battle for LG has begun. Mayock said Good is in line for it, but wanted to see the competition before penning him in. It appears that he may be looking at FA to bring another Guard in (Stefan Wiz?). Gruden said Parker will be the "swing" Tackle.

8:11 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Good news, Raiders have stacked WR and secondary positions. I know the roster can't be redone top to bottom in one year but I can't helped but be concerned that not enough was done to protect Derek Carr.

Wrt starters, acquiring Trent Brown was great, however, we also lost a pro bowl LG. I know Brown has played RT but he was a LT on a championship team. He belongs protecting Carr's blind side, and may well end up there if Miller plays like he did last year, i.e., getting torched by a plethora of edge rushers in the division.

But if that happens, Raiders have nobody to play RT. Parker is way over his head. Miller and Parker were possibly the worst tackle duo in the history of the NFL, combining for 30+ sacks last year.

What ever happened to "the game is won and lost in the trenches?"

IMO, in their haste to stack other positions (WR and DB), Gruden and Mayock may have neglected the most important position(s) on the O-line.

They could have done themselves a huge favor and retained Feliciano, whom the Raiders drafted and is more than ready to be a starter.

Signing Wiz might be a smart move at this point.

4:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


How can you say they have neglected the OL when they sign the best T out there in FA for record money. The right side with Brown and Jackson will destroy people in the run game.

Feliciano does not play tackle so how would tht help? There are at least two guys (Good and Devey on the roster who are his equal at guard and potentially better and make combined about 1/3 of what Feliciano made. Osemele at 10mm loved the guy but no thanks

LOL serioulsy you are scraping the bottom of the barrel when you bring up Feliciano 2-3 on this blog. Find something better to complain about he probably wont even start for the Lions.

Try being positive look at Coney he could be a real find at a position you have been dying about a lack of talent for 3 years---MLB.


8:34 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...


Not sure why you continue to be so quick to attack me personally for my opinions. Thought we got past that.

My central point is that the Raiders are in somewhat of a zero-sum game by losing a pro bowl guard and signing, as you say, the best tackle in FA.

Signing Brown was great but losing Osemele just opens another hole. The Raiders swapped one need for another.

You continue to criticize me to discussing "fringe" players, but these guys make up the Raiders roster and depth. Without them, the team will go nowhere.

Feliciano was drafted by the Raiders and he's played about every position along the Raiders line. He was also the first man chosen to fill-in for Osemele and he proved he could be the starter at LG before he was injured.

Enter Good and Green. Good was drafted in the 7th round by the Colts, who waived him late last season. The Raiders grabbed him because they were desperate.

Green is no more impressive, drafted in the 3rd round by the Cowboys but was released by the Cowboys as part of their pre-season cuts, then wasn't signed until late Oct 2018 by the Saints, who released him a month later. Again, the Raiders were desperate.

So substituting either of these guys for Feliciano is a step backwards.

Feliciano was signed by the Bills, not the Lions, and he's currently listed on depth charts as the starting LG.

Raiders lost a good player.

Now they have a "competition" for LG that may or may not get filled competently. Only time will tell.

7:53 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Raiders are clearly trying to find a LG outside their current roster. Gruden has said as much, and now reports are they are looking at Richie Incognito. Ironically, he played for the Bills, where Feliciano now has his LG position.

Incognito is 35.

The sky isn't falling but the solution was immediately available to the Raiders, i.e., before it wasn't.

9:49 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Oh God, I hope they don't sign Incognito. The dude has a bad history with the NFL, from racial slurs, to PED suspensions, to excessive penalties. I get why they let Osemele go, we went from a Power line, to a ZBS, and Osemele does not fit a ZBS.
He struggled last season and you could tell. I was hoping to retain Feliciano, but he signed with the Bills.

Good fit well with the Raiders because of the ZBS, and was let go by the Colts who run a Power. I don't remember much about Green. Cowboys run a Power, and Saints run a ZBS; so I don't know what to think about him being cut by both.

We also have Denver Kirkland, who filled in nicely at both spot. He took over at Guard intially when Feliciano went down. He jumped to Tackle when Penn went down, and Parker wasn't cutting it and the Raiders signed Green and Good. Don't forget, we signed UDFA Lester Cotton Sr from Bama too. He is a force, and could be one of 3 UDFA's that make the starting roster (he, Coney, and Doss). I think we are fine, but Stefan Wiz would be nice, but he may be wanting too much $$.

10:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Devey is solid at guard as good as Feliciano same with Good.

NY you are a complete downer who finds obscure bs to criticize about. On occasion I will continue to call you out when I feel you are being a "Chiefs fan" and criticizing non-issues for the sake of negativity and hateful vitriol to Gruden

If you think a G is as important as a T (zero sum) you know very little about the NFL. Osemele is no longer a pro bowler and certainly not worth 10mm. Again, spending dollars on more important positions good move by management. Maybe they can get Keon Hatcher or Warren III to play guard---lol. Sorry practice squad players or the bottom 10% of the roster will not make or break the roster.


12:40 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...


Excuse me for having a modicum of concern after 15 years of losing and the complete dismantling that occurred last year.

Discussing holes in the roster and fringe players makes the most sense to me because these are the players and positions that the Raiders need to make the hardest, and smartest decisions.

I guess I didn't realize you were so sensitive.

I'm okay with swapping Brown for Osemele on the roster but I don't know if the Raiders did enough, and certainly they don't know who can play LG. They had a LG and let him go.

Feliciano signed a two-year deal with the Bills (not Lions) at an avg salary of about $3.6M. That's fair, unless you think the Raiders couldn't afford it. (ala Mack).

Feliciano would have been MY first choice to replace Osemele. Sorry if my opinion on this topic is too much for you.

3:42 PM  
Anonymous Raider00 said...

I liked the draft the Raiders had. Not surprising, the draft was heavy on defense. Taking a RB late in first round was wise, as a good running game always helps the defense.

Surprised the Raiders did not take any offensive linemen in draft. Depth issues on O-line already emerging.

5:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anyone notice that Quinton Bell is the the son of Nick Bell?


5:39 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Word is, Raiders still have $20M to spend after rookie pool funds.

IMO, signing Wiz to a short-term contract to secure a stop-gap reliable starting guard should be a no-brainer. Right? Let's take the guesswork out of the Raiders O-line.

I didn't know Bell was a legacy? Interesting.

12:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Sorry I meant is Nick's nephew. Hopefully his career is more productive than Uncle Nick.

I am not sure Wiz is such a great solution or the Eagles would have retained him. I dont think he is any better than Good or Devey at this point. I would rather give Cotton a chance too. Someone like Wiz can always be brought in during training camp if necessary.

What about Jordan Mills? At least he could play tackle if one of the starters dont work out.


5:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In thinking further about it I would prefer Incognito. Before you guys say I am crazy, think of him the same as Vontaze a one year stop gap till the teams moves to Vegas and can draft or acquire young talent at the position.

IF you are worried about a hole at G and yeah I hear you Good, etc. does not scream all pro wouldn't it be better to bring in an actual Pro Bowler vs. a mediocre Wiz?

Yeah he is crazy but not crazy like Tyreek hill and he is a very good player.


7:35 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Wiz brings experience that Good and Green and other roster hopefuls don't have. Maybe he has fallen off a bit, or maybe the Eagles just went younger and/or less expensive at the position. I don't know... but I hope Gruden/Mayock do know.

Raiders brought in a lot of bodies to compete at guard, including some tackles. But, strangely, many are power blockers with little or no experience in zone blocking. Not sure what that will yield the Raiders. Sounds like they want their cake and eat it too.

My thoughts are mixed on Incognito. His problem is that he doesn't learn from his mistakes. His bad behavior seems to follow him. However, media reported he was in "great" shape when he visited Oakland. Stop-gap yes, but can't take him to Vegas.

5:45 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

My problem with Incognito is that he is bi-polar and is not only a danger to other players, but a danger to himself (ala Barrett Robbins). He needs to stay out of football and get mental help, something he has not yet done. I am not on board with Incognito for that reason alone. It looks like the NFL may even suspend him if he decides to come back to the League too. The Raiders have not signed him as of yet due to this as well. I am fine with giving Good and Green a shot, but a back up plan would be nice too.

2:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NY I hear you on Wiz at the right price it could be good insurance not only a t G but at center as well in case Hudson god forbid gets injured. I think Wiz can do zone blocking as well?

Nate, I know its a little selfish wanting Incognito to play given his mental health issues. I think football destroy's these guys i sometimes feel guilty watching the nfl given all the CTE issues. I often say to myself after watching a big hit---this guy will brain damaged at 50.

I believe Incognito did get some help for the past 6 months for his mental health issues. But yes he has been in trouble going back like ten years all the way to the Rams. He is an awesome player though.


3:31 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

He is also looking at a suspension from the NFL if/when he joins a team from an fighting incident from a few months ago. He may have got help, but it seems that he is not utilizing that help. I think it is not CTE, I think he is bi-polar, and is refusing to accept that diagnosis and take medication to help his thinking.
I don't think that playing football is the best choice he can make for himself right now, and teams like the Raiders just need to say thanks, but no thanks.
He can be a great player, but at some point you have to look beyond that at health and character. Incognito is not a leader, and not a man of character; whom the Raiders said are the kind of players that they want. I don't like Burfict, but he has more quality characteristics than Incognito; and that says a ton.

5:32 PM  
Blogger TheFreakingPope said...

I'm really excited by the way we have handled the off season, the draft, and UDFA.

Say what you want, but the Cowboys over paid for Coop, and as great as Mack is at both positions, even he can only play one of them at a time.

Can't wait for camp news to start rolling in!

11:51 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Hey Pope!
First, I hope you are well man. It's been awhile. I am excited too. I loved our draft. A lot of people are banging Josh Jacobs' drum about being the best pick for the Raiders in this draft, but you cannot exclude Clelin Ferrell or Hunter Renfrow either. Those 2, imo, will have just as big an impact with the Raiders this season. The same with our UDFA's. PFF did a comparison of Devin White, Devin Bush, and Te'von Coney; and I still don't understand how Te'von went undrafted.

I haven't seen where the Cowboys have signed Cooper. Cooper still hasn't reported to anything with the Cowboys. The rumor is they are not in the same area code of negotiations, and the Cowboys are appalled at his price tag. I doubt he will be with the Cowboys this season. Glad the Raiders were able to find a trade partner last season for him.

I can't wait for the season to start, because that is where we will see if our draft, UDFA's, and FA pickups were worth it. JUST WIN, BABY!

2:05 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Kelechi Osemele rips Gruden, Cable, and some of the new coaches for being dishonest and totally dismantling the Raiders last season for no reason. He also talks about the rumored locker room disgruntledness from the Washington game a few seasons ago. Overall, epic interview that you can watch here, or on youtube:

6:54 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Richard finished school and graduated from So Miss. That shows a lot of character when so many others come out of school early only for the money.

Richard struggled as a punt returner but shows his toughness as a runner. His strongest asset may be as a receiver out of the backfield.

He will battle mostly with DeAndre Washington, who is Richard's clone on the field. IMO, only one of these guys should make the 53-man roster. They are too similar. Richard may be the more durable of the two.

In terms of RB corp, Keith Smith has been a wasted roster spot. He may be a good blocker but his value as a runner and/or receiver is zero. Smith worked well for the Cowboys, who had Elliot. Meanwhile, the Raiders had a decent FB who could run and catch but Gruden cut him for Smith, who can do neither. 2019 would be a good time to right that wrong.

5:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Thanks for sending the link. Osemele is intelligent and well spoken.

I would not say he ripped them especially Cable, who he said dealt with him honestly. The point of the matter was they could not pay two guards 10mm each, when they were not competing for a superbowl and had finished 6-10. So they kept the younger one--Jackson.

As far as Cooper apparently he is looking for more than 16 mm per year from the Cowboys. Thankfully that is no longer the Raiders problem. Also if the Cowboys give Dak 30mm a year Carr is a downright bargain.

I am hopeful that between Crosby and Key they can total 12 sacks combined.


8:42 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Somebody in the media - or on blog - transposed the sack numbers from last year to the upcoming season, adding college players (assuming a guy like Ferrell can log about 7 sacks) and all they could come up with for the Raiders in 2019 was about 20 sacks (calling it an improvement but still 10 sacks behind the next second worst team from last year).

Raiders had 13 sacks last year. The next team had 30.

Key had 1
Hurst had like 4-5
Everyone else was waived, cut or traded.

There's no question the Raiders can't go through another season like last year. Even if Key, Hurst, Ferrell, et al step up, the Raiders don't have the talent to only rush their base four. Raiders will have to blitz. It's not rocket science.

11:03 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

I read a report (a link I clicked on twitter) that talked about Arden Key, and the reason he was having issues last season was due to ineffective weight. I do think that is part of the problem, but he also over pursues when he does get by defenders.
The article said the Raiders were still waiting for him to gain the weight they had asked him to gain. I have 2 issues with this:
#1-When you start putting more weight on your joints and ligaments that what is natural to your body, you start tearing those joints and ligaments. This is why steroids, muscle supplements, etc are a problem.
#2-The Raiders are asking the same from Max Crosby (DE that was drafted). He is under weight for a true DE too, and is supposed to bring DLine help to Ferrell. Key and Crosby were OLB in college who blitzed the Edge because they were too slow to cover as a true OLB; but too small to line up on the DLine. If the Raiders ran a 3-4 defense, this wouldn't really be a problem. But since they don't, it is a problem. I don't know if Key or Crosby get the pressure needed to help Ferrell. I think our DT's alleviate that pressure, and Key and Crosby will, and should be, used as spies on the QB on the DLine. Let Ferrell and the DT's flush the QB their way, and get a cheap sack (should be an assist). I doubt that either will get a lot of pressure on the QB off the line.

1:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wouldn't sleep on Crosby or Key they both can bend the edge and are built like Aldon Smith. If they cant rush the passer there is no room for them on the team because they cant play the run. You need speed from the outside to rush the passer. They are not Vonn Miller or Mack but hopefully these two combine for 12 sacks.

On another note, take a look at this article, I was surprised but please to learn this.


6:25 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I feel confident Key will be better as a situational pass rusher, lined up next to better talent than the Raiders fielded last year. Raiders line took a huge hit with the loss of Mack, and never recovered. Even if only by a little, Key should be bigger, stronger and smarter than last year.

My take on Crosby is that he's a project. No way to tell if he can compete at the NFL level. But if he's as tenacious and determined as he seems, he will find some success.

IMO, if the Raiders don't nail at least 3-4 starters from this draft, then they have failed. Ferrell and Jacobs are practically locks. Right? To me, that means one or two of the remaining drafted and undrafted players need to be huge contributors, if not outright starters.

Seems like there are some good prospects to fill voids in the roster.

8:10 AM  
Blogger TheFreakingPope said...

I'm good, Nate. Glad to be back on the boards!
Its funny. I live in Dallas and somehow still got my godson/nephew on the right path. We had a great chat on trade value: Cooper vs Antonio Brown. 😂 He in turn was more than happy to have market value conversations with his middle school classmates.

Can't wait for the pads to go on!

5:42 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Pope, I am south of you in Austin. I've got my son on the right path as well, and he was telling his class mates the same about the Cowboys pain of trying to sign Cooper, telling them that Cooper and Mack had the same agent looking for big $$, and the Raiders saw the writing on the wall. Mack, I believe, was worth it. Cooper, not so much.

6:43 AM  
Blogger TheFreakingPope said...

Nate, you have done fine work, indeed.

The reality with Cooper is that he was no longer a good fit for our offense. I think he fits nicely into Dallas offense, and honestly, say what they might, I think Jerry will pay him.

9:23 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

I'm not sure, he didn't pay Dez Bryant, who I think is the better WR between he and Cooper. I've made this argument with "devout" Cowboys' fans, and they seem to agree. Not sure Jerry will pay high dollar for a second rate WR. I'd be surprised if they pay that kind of money he's asking.

7:33 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Jones is in a tough spot because he gave up a 1st round pick for Cooper. He'll have to overpay Cooper to save face and mitigate the loss of his top draft pick.

At least the Bears had enough sense to negotiate a contract before completing their trade.

Interestingly, Mack only counts for about $12M against the Bears cap this year. That's less than his rookie salary scale from last year. Granted, it goes way up in subsequent years... but it shows there are many ways to skin a cat.

5:17 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

#Raiders hired Jim Abrams as dir of college scouting, Dwayne Joseph as dir of pro personnel, DuJuan Daniels as asst dir of player personnel, Walter Juliff as senior advisor to the GM, Jack Gilmore as scouting coord, John Hill as a pro scout, Adam Maxie as a pro scouting asst

Veteran OT Jared Veldheer has informed the Patriots that he plans to retire, per a source.

LT - Dawkins, Waddle
LG - Long, Teller
RG - Spain, Feliciano
RT - Nsekhe, Ford

We’ll see how they line up once they get into team drills. This is preliminary. #Bills

9:33 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

I'd take Gerald McCoy and dump a few of our overstocked DT's (Ronald Ollie, Vanderdoes, PJ Hall, Gabe Wright). Let our starters be McCoy and Hurst with Ellis and Hankins subbing in and out.

Jimmy Durkin reported today that Gruden says Brandon Parker “may end up being the left guard.” Said they’ll give him opportunities to get on the field.

1:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


you were so bullish on PJ. What gives?

Raiders need a TE badly


6:19 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

I'd sacrifice a player like PJ for Gerald McCoy. PJ has potential, and I am still big on him, but to get a player like McCoy that can come in immediately and make a difference, yes, I'd be willing to make that move.

We don't need a TE with Waller and Carrier, who stepped up last season. I think the position belongs to either of those 2. Raiders need an OG pretty bad, and maybe a LT more than they need a TE. If we sign McCoy, and release a few of the DT Clog on the roster, we could afford to go after those positions as well.

11:18 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


No way they are signing another front line tackle. Miller is going to be given every shot to play LT. If he cant it would be Parker or Sharpe which yes is scary. At best I could see a vet signed for low money to serve as insurance.

You are counting on Waller and Carrier to play TE? Both guys have never been starters before and have very limited experience. We need a reliable vet at that position. I dont see Carrier making the team. The mere fact people are talking up Waller shows you how desperate the Raiders are at that position. Luke Wilson is the only guy with experience.


4:36 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Looks like Raiders will mostly employ TE in blocking. They lack a proven receiver at the position. Or they have an incredible amount of faith in Waller.

2:08 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Raiders signed Incognito to a one year deal, not sure I like this move. Dude is in need of some mental help. Threatened to shoot and kill funeral home directors last year because he wanted to cut off his dad's head and donate it to science.

10:20 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

If true, why would the Raiders sign him? That's not even a close call.

3:30 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Okay, so it is true. And the Raiders released Green to make room. Seems like a dumb move because it's so high risk. If Incognito doesn't flame out on his own, he could be suspended for off-field incidents since his last absence from football, or he might not be in shape, or all of the above.

IMO, the move shows how desperate the Raiders are at guard, and that they don't believe they had viable options on their roster.

They might not still.

3:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is a low risk move. He is making the NFL vet minimum with incentives. No guaranteed money, etc. If he does not perform on field or off they can cut him with no repercussions. Where is the risk? BTW by all accounts he is in phenomenal shape. Its not desperate it is signing the best available player at the position.

You guys were complaining they needed a G in the worst way, well they went out and got one who for the previous four years he played was a pro-bowl beast. Stop whining

If you want to whine ask yourself how come a guy with a checkered past like Richie can get hired but they can keep a guy like Kapernick out of the league who has done nothing wrong off the field and was protesting peacefully.

Then again I just read Mark Gastanaue has a gofundme page set up to pay for his cancer treatments because the NFL does not provide lifetime health insurance to ex players.

NFL is one very screwed up league run by a bunch of rich assholes

Raider O-line looking much improved over last year.


4:23 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Sandy, you said Chaz Green would be the starter. He's the guy they dumped. This move proves how desperate the Raiders are at the G position. What a shame because they had Feliciano on their roster and let him go.

The risk I referred to is not money. Incognito is facing suspension for his off-field stupidity. His behavior suggests he is not stable. If he flames out, the Raiders will still have a big hole at the position.

Funny how the Raiders spent the entire off-season preaching about player character, only to sign this guy.

If nothing else, it's bad PR.

3:31 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


I meant Denzelle Good who I think has potential based on his size and the way he played last year.

Feliciano we have covered this, he is making like 4mm a year and right now he is not even a starter on the Bills depth chart. You talk about him like the Raiders gave up Mike Munchack.

The entire roster was turned over, they can not fill every position with quality out of the gate. That being said don't you think the OL is better than last year? i do by a wide margin. Let's start with that. Incognito is a stop gap for a year or two. He brings some toughness that left with Osemele. Except he probably costs 9 mm less than Osemele. Sure its bad PR I agree. Talent wise it is a good stop gap even if he is suspended for the first few games.

Take a look at the team it is better than del Rio's final year---glass half full my friend



5:00 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Feliciano would be the unquestioned starter in Oakland. The Raiders drafted him and he was the first guy up when Osemele went down and was better than Osemele at ZB.

I'm not worried about salaries and, obviously, neither are the Raiders. They paid record salaries to at least two players on their way to spending over $60M this year.

Gabe Jackson makes like $7.0M. Plus, the Raiders have plenty of cap space remaining. This deep into the off-season is no time to go bargain shopping!

IMO, the Raiders line has improved, but they whiffed badly at LG by passing on Feliciano, not drafting a guard, then signing Incognito, who has real issues. Now it may be a matter of time before the news about his suspension. That would be a real shame... in which case I'd rather have Chaz Green back.

This guy is not Barrett Robbins, but appears to suffer from the same issue.

10:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Feliciano wouldn't be good enough, it's not a case of bargain shopping, it's a case of the talent not being there. Incognito is the best of the rest if he plays up to the 2017 standard. By all accounts, he looks to physically able to do it. Contract is a show me contract, if he screws up, he is cut. If they get a good season out of him, would nyr say it's a dumb move? I would have to say it would be 50-50.

Who cares about PR, it's about winning, right?

nyr gets the whiner of the year award and the season hasn't even started.


2:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


If you want to complain about bringing on a head case like Incongnito have at. But sorry making Feliciano out to be the second coming of John Hannah or Steve Wisnewski for that matter is ridiculous.

He is a back up at best, I googled Bills depth chart and he is second or third team on most sites. In terms of talent he can not carry Richie's jock. You act like not resigning him is some tragic mistake get real.

Guard is not a priority position, I sense you complaining for the sake of. Go back to missing Bowman it made more sense.


3:59 PM  
Blogger hipdogg said...



5:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If only it was your team.

Everyone always trying to be Mr. Do-good, sit down and let them play football without all the judgements heaped on them by self righteous idiots who probably have worse skeletons in their closets.

If the Raiders see fit to employ him and he conducts himself accordingly to team rules, then he gets an opportunity to make a living. We all make mistakes, even you dogg. Really wonder how clean of a living you have led and the things you did from 20-35 ?

Electric dog collar

8:06 PM  
Blogger hipdogg said...

openly racist is certainly not in my closet full of skeletons. I also have never bullied someone to consider suicide because they were gay. i hope that the dude is helping get his mind right but i don't want him on my fucking team. i have tried to make right with my own self (with all of the troubles with the NFL) that the Raiders are an organization that have tried to be on the right side of history. this does not sit well with me and i do believe that Al Davis would have never signed this guy.


9:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Al Davis would have not signed him? Do not agree. Look at all the troubled players he took on, I'm sure many were racist by today's standards. It's the woman beaters that Al didn't like, if you were a team guy and played hard, he didn't care.

Not all of us are so accepting of others. Just the way it is, all you on your high horses, acting like you are a saint....what a crock.

Stop Barking

9:14 PM  
Blogger hipdogg said...

go ahead and google or wiki Al Davis and civil rights... one of the many things that we should be proud of the man.

9:32 PM  
Blogger hipdogg said...


9:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hipdogg this is a fair criticism. I too have mixed emotions given the man's character. Yes you need some psycho on the team---Romanowski, Tatum, etc. However, I pointed out that it is ludicrious that guys like Tyreek Hill or Incognito are getting to play in the NFL but Kap is not.

My debate with NY is strictly based on football terms. Last seen he is an elite player and way better than the raiders other options including Feliciano.


7:49 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...


You have become a straw man machine. Where did I compare Feliciano with any other player? All I said was that the Raiders have foregone many viable options at LG, not the least of which was re-signing Feliciano, who came on the last couple years as a solid OL.

Raiders also neglected to draft at the position, though they had many opportunities.

Incognito has been out of football but may have some gas left in his tank, but he also comes with a lot of baggage. Sounds like he may have outstanding criminal actions (or at least behavior that the NFL is or will be reviewing), and he has a history of being a locker room cancer.

Safe to say Incognito doesn't exactly provide leadership, or even stability to the team or his position.

IMO, the Raiders have not solved LG. That's my take.

This may be Derek Carr's last chance to show he can be an elite QB, capable of making the playoffs and beyond. Lots of chatter about how much Gruden loved Murray. Drafting a top QB may soon become a reality for Gruden. So as far as DC is concerned, LG should be extremely important.

9:42 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Incognito just pleaded guilty to a second criminal charge where he threatened his grandmother, after trying to cut his dad's head off at his dad's funeral; and then came back with guns to go after the funeral home directors. Clearly this guy is not in his right mind, and his troubles are worse than that of Barrett Robbins.
This dude should not be playing football, but should be sitting in a mental institution to get his head right (I think he is showing signs of paranoid-schizophrenia).

At this point, I agree with Colin Cowherd, with this signing and Burfict, Gruden clearly has no plan on defense. Cowherd throws in Antonio Bryant into this fray, but I disagree with him there that AB is a head case, AB is a prima donna like Terrell Owens, Michael Irvin, Deion Sanders, and Chad Ochocinco Johnson. Most WRs and CBs have a little bit of that going on nowadays, and it's nothing new. But AB is not a head case like Burfict and Incognito. This is a bad signing, and bad move by Gruden and Mayock.

I agree with Hipdogg that I don't want this clown on our roster. I think Lester Cotton Sr (UDFA) should have the shot to start. Dude is a beast! Lester Cotton Sr, Keelan Doss, and Te'von Coney are UDFA's that I think will not only make the roster, but will start in some capacity.

10:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I guess some just need something to bitch about. Look back at the old Raiders, even the last time Gruden was HC. Romanowski had the same problems, maybe he didn't call someone a nigger or a chink, but he had mental issues. Barrett Robbins was another. Go back in Raiders history, many had mental issues, it's FOOTBALL, of course there will be some who have mental problems.

Wonder how many times a black player has put down a cracker because he is white? But never reaches the media because usually when a black person gives it to a white guy, it's ok. This is all part of that white guilt crap being forced on society. The Raiders did their homework, if this guy starts creating a problem.....guess what, he is gone.

He was a pro bowl player and is being given one more chance, if he screws it up, he is gone, no harm, no foul. But don't let that stop you from playing the race card and crying about the Raiders being stupid.

All the do-gooders who can't wait to stand up on their soap box and point the finger and say HE is the bad one. Shut up, sit down and eat some candy. Nothing perfect in this world.....yes, even you, gasp.

Kick in the nads

10:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow, do you people know the history of the Raiders? The once home to misfits and broken toys? WOW, Matusak, Alzado, Tatum, Atkinson, Hendricks etc.... the team prided itself on the rest of the league thinking they were the 'criminal element'. Stop being wimps, this is football, this is the Raiders.

Gruden knows the Raiders always had a cast of rebels/misfits and isn't afraid of them. He is turning back the clock a bit and is embracing some of these types. IT's FOOTBALL, you need some crazy's to keep the mood right. Now, those of you who are whining, go back to your politically correct lives and pretend like you are the perfect person and should keep throwing judgement on others because he has done some bad things.....

A Misfit

10:35 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I have no issue with "misfits", hard hitters, etc. Of course, historically, that's the Raiders bread and butter. For me, it's not about remarks he's made in the past, as tasteless as they may be. My concern about Incognito is strictly football related. It has to do with his possible (probable) suspension, and that he could flame out at any minute. I don't believe the Raiders should invest in this guy. Roster spots should be about players who are meaningful to the future of this team. Didn't Incognito already try to resurrect his career in Miami?

2:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Roster spots are also for players who can help win right now.

You should be happy with the signing then, one year, prove it contract for min wage. Contract is written that, if he becomes a problem, he is gone. So football wise, it's a good try to fill a position of need right now. But the politically correct crowd feels it's not right to hire racists, if that was the case with every one, not just pro athletes, then there would be a lot of unemployed people. This world isn't perfect and neither is any one person. Raiders have given him another chance, maybe he gets it right and the team will look good for doing it? Maybe he doesn't and he is let go......what is the big deal? Cause he is racist? He was mad when his Dad died? What has happened to Raider fans? We have always been the most unpolitically correct fanbase in the world...... now fans are crying about players who aren't politically correct....this world has gone to crap.


3:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


You said Feliciano would be the unquestioned starter and you seem to have preferred him over anyone else? Do I have that wrong. I am telling you he is a marginal player who probably wont crack the starting group with the Bills, and does not compare to Incognito.

If people are pissed cause Richie is a goof that is legit. But no one on here can deny he is not extremely talented. Better than Osemele at this point.

Don't be calling me a straw man for pointing out your complaints often have little to do with football facts and instead are just you complaining for the sake of.

Case in point you for the past 3 years you constantly bemoan letting go fringe players (Hatcher, Bowman, Feliciano) and use that as some indictment of management that if they only kept them the team would be so much better. Constantly reverting to the negative in even when it is nonsensical makes me wonder.


4:39 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...


Incognito better than Osemele? You're joking, right?

As for the straw man, when I say the Raiders could better use their resources by retaining a good player they drafted (first man up after Osemele went down), you respond that I'm...

"...making Feliciano out to be the second coming of John Hannah or Steve Wisnewski...."

The mere fact the Raiders would sign Incognito shows their desperation at LG which, IMO, was avoidable. Again, by retaining Feliciano and/or drafting a guard and allowing the entire group to compete would have been infinitely smarter than signing a player who is probably destined for suspension.

Is this is a repeat of last year when you told us how great Derrick Johnson was going to be. Raiders released him by October.

3:57 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


The last 3 years they both payed Incognito has been the superior player to Osemele in terms of PFF rankings and pro bowls---that is fact. Osemele was mediocre last year and costs 10mm per year.

Having Feliciano as the starting guard would be a desperate situation as well based on the fact he can not crack the starting lineup with the Bills.

Now your putting words in my mouth about Johnson. Using low cost veterans as a stop gap till you can identify young inexpensive talent is not a bad way to go. That is how I felt about Johnson and now Incognito from a football standpoint.If it proves to be wrong the repercussions are minimal at best in terms of cap.

Your entire hypothesis is based on Feliciano being a good player--he is not.

Have a good weekend

7:15 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Hardly accurate. Osemele was injured last year. He is a proven pro bowl talent with a team first attitude. He's also age 29 compared to Incognito was is 35. I agree his salary was too high, which made him expendable, provided the Raiders had a plan for his replacement... which they did not.

If Feliciano is so bad, why did the Bills pay him starter money? Just because he is listed back on their depth chart in May, you think he definitively won't start? At worst, he's an outstanding utility player.

I never anointed Feliciano the starter, but I am convinced he was the Raiders best option. As it stands, Good is probably now their best chance at LG, and he has less experience as a starter than Feliciano. Chaz Green, the next best option, was cut.

If you don't think LG is important, you haven't been paying attention. Kolton Miller was horrific last year.

It will take a small miracle for Incognito to be the Raiders full-time starter for 16 games. If he can avoid suspension, stay clean and not cause problems in the Raiders locker room, great! He's our guy.

Personally, I don't like the odds.

11:41 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

His salary wasn't the reason why they cut Osemele. The reason he was cut was due to lack of understanding ZBS. He is not a Zone-Block guy, he is a power, nasty hitter, and did not fit with Gruden/Cable's system. I've moved on and wish him the best with the Jets.

Feliciano could have done well for us, but the Bills offered more than the Raiders, and I have turned that page as well.

There are a few UDFA's that I think will not only make the roster, but start in some capacity: Te'von Coney (LB), Lester Cotton Sr (OG), and Keelan Doss (WR). A lot of buzz from the local media about these guys; which is a good thing.

Reports coming out of Buffalo that they had to raise security when Incognito planned on retiring because of threats to the personnel, coaches, players, and office brass that he made. In fact, he was barred from the facility and had to announce his retirement somewhere else. This dude is not playing with a full deck and needs mental help. His issue is beyond the game, and somebody is going to die at his hands. It is unfortunate that the Raiders signed him. I don't even think the Raiders of yester-decades would sign this guy. Fans have given the Chiefs and other teams grief over Tyreek Hill and others recently, and rightfully so; but Incognito is more dangerous, not just to women, but to anyone he comes in contact with; and could happen at the drop of a hat. This is beyond crazy; I compare it to idiots who kiss rattlesnakes crazy.

3:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You never anointed Feliciano the starter?

Feliciano would be the unquestioned starter in Oakland.

That's your quote from two days ago. This is why it is hard to look at your comments as more than just criticism for the sake of.


5:39 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

My apologizes for confusing you. I am bouncing around trying to counter your straw man posts, including the one that has me elevating Feliciano to HOF lineman. Allow me to regather my thoughts.

It's been my opinion all along that Gruden has unnecessarily taken a blowtorch to everything McKenzie did, some of which seemed like reasonable building blocks. I think it kills Gruden that he has to stick with Derek Carr, and he would have much rather had Kyler Murray with the #4 pick but couldn't justify the ransom he would have paid to get Murray at #1.

So I kinda think Carr is on borrowed time. He was badly injured two years ago and played scared last year.

In order for Carr to play well, he needs protection. Enter Trent Brown, and excellent FA grab but at a record-setting price (safe to say, overpaying for players is not an issue for the Raiders - who still have Mack's cap money to spend).

Looks like Brown will replace Parker, who absolutely sucked at RT. Meanwhile Kolton Miller also sucks, but he will be back at LT, so there's nobody on the left side to provide stability. Understandably, that's probably why Incognito was signed. He's a proven vet. But Incognito has too many issues to be viable, IMO (have the Raiders read the news on this guy??).

So far, I think the Raiders have whiffed on the left side of the O-line, and it's too important to Carr and Raiders not to get it right. Miller will get better at LT, but even if he's twice as good as he was last year, he's probably still at the bottom of the league in terms of sacks and hurries.

Feliciano was never the only option (but a good player to have... he was the backup center). I have stated repeatedly that the Raiders should have drafted a guard. For example, Raiders had plenty of depth at CB but managed to draft two more. One of those probably should have been a guard.

Carr needs more help but there's still time for the Raiders to sign a FA left guard. I don't believe they re-signed Good to start. Signing Incognito proves that.


5:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for clarifying, let me see if I get it now. Feliciano was valuable as a back up center? And the Raider problems at guard could have been solved with an unknown draft pick they should have taken. Sounds realistic.

Okay got it now so Gruden has not completely fixed the team in 12 months. I prefer to look at the positives WR much improved, DB much improved, LB much improved, RT much improved, RB youth infusion, coaching much improved. Age of team much improved. Let's see how his DL choices and the OL reshuffle looks at the end of this year.


7:20 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I this your "new" spin? Your version of virtue signaling, and I shouldn't dare question anything. The positives outweigh the negatives, so we shouldn't discuss any unforced errors. Just be happy so many other things have been addressed and keep quiet.

Is that your take now?

2:19 PM  
Anonymous Berdj Joseph Rassam said...

I'm hoping that he's crazy like a fox, and that this game hasn't passed him by like some people are saying. Time will tell.

7:40 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...


Gruden is a wildcard at this point. We really don't know what we have, and last year certainly didn't provide any insight as to what success he might bring to the Raiders... only that it will take time.

Do we get the Gruden who found success in his first stint in Oakland and his early days in Tampa, or do we end up with the Gruden who, after some early success, flamed out in Tampa?

Mike Mayock seems like a stabilizing force, so that's encouraging.

3:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I have a lot of respect when a man can get up, dust himself given another opportunity. That's what Incognitos doing, that's what Worley's doing and that's what Raiders are here to help them do.' -- Jon Gruden

2:11 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Much of what Jon Gruden has stated to the media has not been completely honest. In some cases, that's being polite. Incognito has been given multiple chances already, so giving him another probably speaks more about the Raiders than it does Incognito, and not necessarily in a generous light.

Wonder where the NFL stands with review of his conduct...?

7:43 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Raiders were officially chosen for Hard Knocks! That should be interesting!!

7:46 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

5:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“I’ve spent a lot of time talking with Richie, and this is not a far-fetched comeback that he’s trying to make,” Gruden said. “This is something he has thought a lot about. He walked away from the game for very good reasons; I’m not going to get into that. We like where he is. We like what he’s done and the potential of what he can do for us.”

5:48 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Jon Gruden trying to rationalize the Raiders signing Incognito doesn't make it right/true. If he's Bi-polar, by definition, it means there's another side to the story (person).

4:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NY, We had a debate about RT being as important as LT re Trent Brown. You said it was not the case I said it was. Saw this article and thought of you


How do you know someone doesn’t really know what they’re talking about when it comes to the NFL these days?

When they talk about the difference between left tackles and right tackles or describe an offensive lineman as a “right tackle only,” that’s how.

The truth is, anybody who has been paying close attention to the league the last few years realizes (or at least should) that there is no longer a distinction between the two positions on the edges of a team’s offensive line. If your team’s front office hasn’t figured that out yet, and there are still a few I’m not convinced have, you’ve got major problems.

That’s why I’m not surprised the Raiders are lining up at mandatory minicamp this week with their marquee free agent signing, Trent Brown, who played left tackle with the Patriots, at right tackle. Or that the Eagles drafted Washington State offensive tackle Andre Dillard in the first round to be the heir apparent to longtime stalwart Jason Peters at left tackle despite years of speculation that the team would just slide stud right tackle Lane Johnson over to left once Peters finally called it a career.

The Raiders and the Eagles have both identified the increased importance of the right tackle position and have allocated assets there accordingly. Not all other NFL teams have followed suit and some of them have really struggled as a result.

To understand where we are now one must understand first how we got here. Teams figured out in the 1980s that it made sense to put their fastest and best pass rushers over the offense’s left tackle because that was typically the quarterback’s blind side and that would give them the best opportunity to get a game-changing strip sack. Think Lawrence Taylor and Derrick Thomas.

To combat that, NFL teams realized they needed their best and most athletic offensive lineman to play left tackle. Think Anthony Munoz, Jonathan Ogden, Tony Boselli, Orlando Pace, Walter Jones, etc.

More recently, a lot of defenses decided to counter that offensive tendency by putting their best rusher over the opponent’s right tackle. Think Von Miller, Khalil Mack, DeMarcus Lawrence, Joey Bosa, Justin Houston, etc.

There are really three main reasons for this. The biggest one is that in a matchup league it makes sense to move your rusher to a spot where he will typically get a more favorable matchup, and that is over the right tackle for most teams in the NFL.

The other two are a little more technical.

“I think part of it is a reaction to teams doing so much shotgun and getting rid of the ball so quickly,” said former NFL lineman Geoff Schwartz, who not only got time at both spots during his career but is also the brother of Mitchell Schwartz, one of the best right tackles in the NFL for the Kansas City Chiefs.

That’s an important distinction as often one side of the line is comprised of two one on one battles and the other side, to which the center slides, is more of a “three on two” situation. It’s a huge difference and while teams are trying to get more balanced in their protection calls they aren’t there yet.

What does it all mean?

It means you better have a right tackle who can pass protect and not play like a slower-footed ogre like some teams have put out there. Look at the teams that went far in the playoffs last year and you quickly realize they all had very good right tackle play. It’s become a premium position in a passing league focused on affecting the quarterback even if the salaries haven’t all caught up to that reality yet.

It also means that if you hear someone continuing to make a distinction between left and right tackle you should probably stop listening to them because their thinking is outdated.

At best.

(Photo by Jim McIsaac/Getty Images)

8:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jon Gruden is right there, he see's the guy every day. You on the other hand, are just making assumptions. Are we supposed to take your word for it? You supposedly are from NY? And you know better than Gruden? That is some ego you have there.

You THINK you know, but as history on this blog has shown us, anything you say as fact, is probably fake news.

I would bet that you aren't even a Raider.

I am a Raider

1:19 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

So Chris Simms is making a to 40 QB rankings list. He has Derek Carr at #18. He hasn't released them all yet, but it's horrible. He ranks Baker Mayfield and Kirk Cousins ahead of DC. Not sure that I buy that. So that got me thinking, who is my top 10 NFL QBs going into the 2019 season, and in backward order, here they are:

10. Andrew Luck - His ole trusty side arm looked to be in good form last season, can he get protection and a running game this season? We will see.
9. Nick Foles - I think he is going to do great things in Jacksonville, but we will see.
8. Kirk Cousins - He got a lot of grief in Minnesota last season, but seeing how it was a new scheme for him to get used to, I expected a down year. Now that he has a season under his belt, I expect a good year from him.
7. Derek Carr - He has had the same Offensive Coordinator for more than 1 season once in his career. That year, the Raiders went 12-4. This is his second season with Gruden, and I expect him to be lights out, and see him rise up as this season goes.
6. Russell Wilson - I liked him coming out of Wisconsin, and couldn't figure out why he wasn't drafted higher. He has taken a beating as well the last few years, we will see how he can hold up.
5. Patrick Mahomes - He is a good QB, and I was surprised how he played this year. I'm still not sold on the hype, but we will see how his sophomore year in the league goes. Now that the League has seen him, will they figure out how to beat him?
4. Aaron Rodgers - He is getting old, like Favre, and I am wondering how much longer Green Bay is going to stick with him. Hey Rodgers, your wear-n-tear is showing.
3. Phillip Rivers - If there is anyone in the AFC West that I would like to see win a Super Bowl other than the Raiders, it's Rivers. I like his competitiveness, and I think he is underrated as a QB.
2. Drew Brees - When I look at the numbers, Brees is certainly one of the greats that we will talk about for years. I am wanting to see a Brees/Brady Super Bowl, just to see if the Saints can knock out the Patriots. I would hate it that Dennis Allen would beat them, but hey. Until that happens, Brees is behind Brady.
1. Tom Brady - I hate him, but nobody can beat him right now. If we are talking all-time QBs in History, I have Joe Montana and Bart Starr ahead of him. But for 2019 season, he's the top QB.

2:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I love Carr but no way he is top ten based on his last two years. I would remove Carr, Cousins and Foles and add in Roethslberger, Newton and Matt Ryan. 11 is Stafford


5:08 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Let's see. The most obvious measure of RT becoming "more important" in the NFL is salary. The Raiders proved that by signing Brown to a record contract. Yet the Raiders had mega cap space and they couldn't afford not to sign Brown. Hence a record contract within minutes of the start of free agency.

Plus, we don't know if Miller can hold up at LT, so Brown (who also plays LT) is a much needed insurance policy for Miller.

I agree that edge rushers attacking both sides of the line have helped make RT more important. But you can't change the simple fact that the left side is the blind side for a right-handed QB. Paying RTs higher salary won't change that.

Another obvious fact is that the two positions are not interchangeable. Penn was a career LT who couldn't play right tackle. Raiders have tried many other players at RT who played other OL positions, and almost always failed with those projects.

Just stating the obvious.

4:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Its not about salary its about how the NFL works and that there as many dangerous pash rushers on the right as the left. I liked the following line from the article

"How do you know someone doesn’t really know what they’re talking about when it comes to the NFL these days?"

In other words be pleased with the acquisition of Brown he is worth the money no matter what side he plays on. Its not a Raider issue its about Mayock and Gruden building the best OL line they can.


10:47 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Are you trying to convince me that water seeks its level and that edge rushers found a weakness on some NFL lines and have exploited it? Really?

The Raiders have undermanned the RT position for years. Brown, if he stays on the right side (assuming Miller can actually play LT), will hopefully solidify the position.

Listen, the off-season is a great time for wishful thinking but it also lends to a lot of speculation.

It sounds righteous to say "its about Mayock and Gruden building the best line they can," but how does that work in conjunction with the scheme Gruden wants to run? Will it work for ZBS? Will it be better for a hybrid of zone and power?

Just saying they are doing a great job is pretty lame, IMHO.


5:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was not trying to be righteous, lame or whatever else you are calling me. I just wanted to tell you when I saw the sentence

"How do you know someone doesn’t really know what they’re talking about when it comes to the NFL these days?"

it made me think of you

3:57 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

As I said, off-season is great for wishful thinkers. That's when you do your best work.

11:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey based on 20 years of ineptitude save one year, why the hell not. NY you should try it sometime optimism can be uplifting at least during the off season lol.

Seriously though I would be interested in you giving me your top 5 positive moves you think Gruden has made since taking over and if you cant get to 5 give me at least three please. If you do that for me I will give you my 5 dumb moves he made---is that fair?


2:42 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I appreciate the invite.

Actually, five good moves is easy. Granted, five bad moves is probably easier, but here goes.

1). Trading Cooper to the Cowboys was great timing by the Raiders. The only uncertainty is the success of Abram, whom they drafted with the Cowboys #1 pick.

2). Despite paying a record salary, I can hardly complain about trading for Antonio Brown. For all the bad trades the Raiders have made (including last year's trade with the Steelers for Bryant), this one made perfect sense. Compensation to the Steelers was minimal and provided great value to the Raiders.

3). Signing Trent Brown happened so quickly at the start of the FA period that it looked like tampering. I thought Brown would play LT (he may still), but he's a good get regardless.

4). Josh Jacobs. Can't help but be excited about this kid. The highlight package I viewed showed him running downfield out of a spread formation and catching a ball over his head. If he runs as good as he can catch, the Raiders have a serious offensive weapon. IMO, either Richard or Washington need to go to make room for Chris Warren III (change of pace downhill RB).

5). Tyrell Williams. He's no Antonio Brown but he's big and he will catch contested passes, something past Raiders receivers couldn't do with any regularity.

Honorable mentions:

-Burfict might surprise at MLB. He has the talent.
-the secondary is definitely improved. Starter options and depth.
-re-signing Dwayne Harris... best returner and smartest ST player in the league.

Plenty of mistakes IMO, but it will be interesting to read your version of those before I open my mouth.


2:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Okay NY---right back at you. Here goes in no particular order:

1) A 3rd rounder for Bryant. Even if you take out the fact that he had addiction issues and a suspension pending---was Gruden and McKenzie not aware of that? A 3rd seems to be a serious over-payment especially given what they got Brown for.

2) Taking Miller instead of Derwin James. Unless Miller becomes a pro bowler this is a serious set back and missed opportunity to fill a hole that has been a problem for awhile. James looks like a star already

3) Hiring Cable, lets start with an itch you often scratch, zone blocking vs power and not adjusting to personnel. Who fits the ZBS---Brown doubtful? Jackson no, Incognito no. Hudson I guess

4) Taking his tear down too far. An example would be his rush to clean house and use veterans short term, may have led to jettisoning some decent DL talent such as Autry and possibly even Ward.

and the big one

5) Trading Mack. We can argue about salary cap issues forever point being the two or three players we will get for him in the draft and the money used on FA might provide grater depth and the same amount of wins that Mack brought but it is still hard to give up a generational hall of fame player at one of football's most important positions. The decision seemed rushed, Unless Mark and Jon were 100% sure that Mack would have refused to report this could have played out differently.

Honorable mention, the misinformation and what seems like a fire aim ready approach threw every fan for a loop and really created a downer of a season.

BTW, I was surprised you included Brown in your list, I know you are happy to see a quality tackle in the fold as you have correctly worried about RT for a number of years. However I was under the impression you thought they way overpaid for him. Why did you not include firing Reggie in your list? joking sort of

All the best

8:48 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Lol. Seems as though we are of the same mind on most issues.

The thing that stands out above individual players is scheme. Will Gruden, Cable et al continue to try and fit a square peg in a round hole, or will they adjust to the obvious talent on this team? I am not a fan of ZBS, if for no other reason than it doesn't seem to ever work in Oakland. And retooling the O-line every time a change is desired or needed is excessive, costly and time consuming.

Raiders have potential for a vertical passing game. If Gruden calls more dink and dunk offense again this year, he will have more than the fans to answer to. Brown and Williams, and Carr may take exception as well.

11:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does anyone in the world think Gruden will run a dink and dunk O this year? Gruden brings in players to fit his system, it's not the other way round. A GM doesn't get players that the coach has to adapt to, no, the GM gets players THAT FIT THE SYSTEM, duh.

Dink and dunk was because of the situation that was last year. If one hasn't noticed, the Raiders have completely upgraded the team and have a Hall of Fame WR now. They have a very good #2 Wr, with some exciting young talent behind that.

The O-line has been redone in 1 year, I think Gruden and his O is going to be around for a few years, so maybe the O-line is getting to what they want now? A hot young RB, what is there to bitch about?

Obviously Gruden knew the team had to be changed and last year was another tear it down to rebuild year. After one year, it is looking very good and as fans, it is all we can ask for....or is it?


1:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You see NY I may harass you sometimes when I feel you are being to neg but I read and appreciate ya.


5:06 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Here's a decent assessment of the guard position. As I mentioned before, Incognito is not a risk due to salary but a considerable risk that the Raiders might rely on him to start the season. This article goes a step further and suggests Jackson may not be well-suited for Cable's zone system. Where do the Raiders draw the line? IMO, it's not that Jackson isn't good enough, it's that Cable isn't good enough. Period!

12:00 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Incognito suspended first two games of the season. That's actually better than I anticipated but it still leaves the Raiders without a legit starting guard for two critical games, particularly, if the plan is to win now.

This was the risk I referred before... not money!

But Incognito has other baggage (and risk) too. So far it seems he's been on his best behavior. That worked well for Barrett Robbins too, until it didn't. And Robbins didn't have a rap sheet of stupidity that Incognito has. Robbins AWOL was his first craziness, at least that I remember.

Hope everyone is enjoying their summer!

Cheers from poolside in NY!

1:40 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Incognito has been suspended 2 games, and could be more. I bet he doesn't make the team. We will see.
Tom Cable has failed as an O-Line coach in Seattle, and is now showing he is past his game here in Oakland. Time to cut our losses with him.
The O-Line is not a major concern for me headed into this offseason, but the O-Line coach is, so much is dependent on him to get things right for our season to do well.
As far as players/positions, the Defensive Line is still top priority. Did the Raiders do enough this offseason to disrupt the passing game? Did they do enough to generate the ability to bring pressure and knock the QB down? That is going to determine how well the defense does this offseason. I don't know the answer to these questions, but what I do know is Paul Guenther is more than thrilled with his defense this season. That's a good sign I think? Much love to everyone, hope you have had a terrific summer.

1:43 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Raiders waived Chris Warren III. I don't know the reason but this really bugs me. CWIII was overworked last pre-season, to the point of injury, but he showed he can run the ball. Clearly, he is inexperienced but demonstrated insane potential as a downhill runner.

It was toward the end of camp that Gruden acknowledged he could not in good conscience waive CWIII or Keon Hatcher, then Warren went to IR and Hatcher was waived.

I'm not saying either of these guys can make the 53-man roster, but they both showed enough talent to be given every opportunity. Yet they are both gone.

With the Raiders recent explosion of talent at WR, Hatcher was expendable. I have no complaint. But RB is not so stacked. Raiders don't even know if they have a legit starter in Jacobs, and neither Richard nor Washington are starters in the NFL.

I'm a big fan of CWIII and this is a really disappointing move... but one that is consistent with so many other moves. Seemingly haphazard and without its due deliberation.

It's a real shame for fans who were hoping to see Warren put up another big preseason in a run to make the roster.

11:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


You really think the coaches are missing something with Warren. The he guy was not drafted, is slow, played tough in meaningless games against mostly third stringers. But that is it. He is not Jim Brown.

Lets see if he is in the nfl 24 months from now or even this season for that matter.

Now on guard you are right Incognito being suspended two games makes things look scary early at that position.


9:15 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...


Not sure if they're missing something. Here's my opinion (and only my opinion). I think Gruden is too emotional in his decision-making (which, btw, I believe led to trading Mack).

The oversimplified explanation was that Warren showed up overweight and dropped a pass out of the backfield on the first or second day of camp. So he was cut.

Everyone on the planet knows Warren is green and needs to be coached up. If that's the standard, then Keith Smith should have been cut last year. Instead Gruden keeps passing him the ball, and Smith keeps dropping it.

Warren is a fan-favorite. Gruden could have challenged Warren for a couple weeks, and perhaps done a better job convincing the paying fans that he didn't deserve a shot to play RB on a team with no clear starter, nor depth chart at the position. Cutting him the second day of camp doesn't do that.

Granted, losing Warren isn't as bad as losing Isaiah Crowell, but Raiders appear dangerously thin at the RB position. Don't forget, Jacobs has never been a featured back.

Meanwhile, Doug "fumble at the most critical time" Martin is back and once again Gruden's pet.

You know I am a fan of the younger players getting a shot. Wasn't always my position, but has been since the entire roster was blown up. If we're rebuilding, then let's rebuild.

Guard is a real problem. Incognito suspended. Goode out indefinitely following surgery. Sure would be nice to have a "fringe" utility lineman like Jon Feliciano right now... who also plays backup center.

Have a great day!

4:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Don't get me wrong I always fall in love with one or two camp guys as well. FYI, Warren was not claimed on waivers. RB the top 4 is Jacobs, Ricard, Martin and Washington----let's see.

On a brighter note the Raiders for the first time in a long time look stacked at safery. Joyner, Abrhams, Joseph, Harris.

Take care

8:26 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

RIP Cliff Branch. Played on all three Raiders SB wins, and led the league wrt post season WR stats upon his retirement but somehow was never inducted into the HOF.

One of my personal favorite all-time Raider greats!

9:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hear you ny. Branch was awesome I'm grateful that I got to watch his career. It's ludicrous that he's not in the Hall of Fame any guy who has 3 rings and played an instrumental part of that team deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.


5:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

3:09 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Hard Knocks was really cool and a little disappointing at the same time. The Autumn Wind poem at the onset gave me chills. But seeing Greg Olsen and Tom Cable in a coaches meeting topped my disappointment. The sad truth is, the offense will have to somehow exceed these two guys' coaching abilities to be successive.

I found it interesting they showed mostly rookies, including a segment trying create drama around cutting an unmotivated undrafted rookie free agent. Big deal!

They also showed Richie Incognito clowning around with Gruden. He spoke like a veteran leader. Let's hope!

4:40 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

I'm saddened by the passing of Cliff Branch. Had a chance to meet him, Freddie B, and Stabler (yes, I have all 3 autographs on one picture too) several years back, he was a great dude. Always smiling and laughing as he shared memories. Sad that he will not see his induction, like Stabler.
I don't have HBO, so haven't (and won't) see Hard Knocks. Greg Olsen and Tom Cable should be shown the door this season if the o-line and offense sputters like it did last season. Viewing the tweets about Raiders/Rams joint practice, it appears the Rams d is taking it to the Raiders O-line. First pass of practice, Carr picked off by Talib. :/

11:27 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Gabe Jackson went down in joint practice with Rams today. Sounds like he was undercut and rolled on by a defender. Wonder if that led to the brawl, or was the result of the brawl?

1:57 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Raiders cannot afford to lose Jackson. They are thin on the line as it is. I'm still annoyed they didn't draft a lineman when they had many opportunities... not that a rookie can replace Jackson but they need better depth.

Meanwhile, media reported Kolton Miller got schooled by the Rams pass rushers in joint scrimmages. That's not a good sign for any of us who thought Miller's injuries last year were the primary reason he struggled. IMO, still a chance Trent Brown gets moved to the left side. Sure, the right side is important - as Brown's record contract suggests - but the left is the blind side. Miller could get Carr killed, again!

Been watching and reading when I can. My early observation is that the Raiders have talent at skill positions but lack talent and depth in the trenches... where it really matters. Even if they double their sack total from last year, it will still be dead last in the league. I don't think enough attention was paid to this glaring deficiency.

4:47 PM  

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