Emergency Take: A.B. Edition
I didn't think I got HBO, but when the premiere of Hard Knocks approached, I was about to give in...Then I discovered that I've been getting HBO all along. Will wonders never cease?
(Side note: I've enjoyed my offseason absence and appreciate y'all keeping the lights on as always. I've been at this for 15 years or so now, so perhaps you can forgive me for losing a bit of steam lately)
I enjoyed the first episode of Hard Knocks. One of my main takes from it: Abram better be ready to back up his bluster. Cheeky is one thing, disrespectful is another. He's walking a fine line and he better be ready for his Welcome to The NFL moment once the games count.
But that's not the real story, nor did Hard Knocks give us the real story on Antonio Brown. Oh, we got a lot of references to "foot problems," but no insight into what they were or how they happened. Now we know, of course. But even crazier is this whole "helmet" issue and "radio silence" news that's breaking today, look it up if you haven't seen it.
I don't know if it's all true, but there's too much smoke there for there not to be a pretty big fire.
Honestly, I've been bracing myself for something here. Not just only because it's Antonio Brown, but also because it's the Raiders. Randy Moss, Javon Walker, etc. Our history with big splash WR signings is littered with clown show material, and so here we are again.
That said, if these reports are true, it's gotten nuttier much faster than even the most jaded observer could have expected.
Let's hope all the nonsense is confined to camp and that A.B. hits the ground running once the season starts, because if he doesn't, it could get real ugly.
(Side note: I've enjoyed my offseason absence and appreciate y'all keeping the lights on as always. I've been at this for 15 years or so now, so perhaps you can forgive me for losing a bit of steam lately)
I enjoyed the first episode of Hard Knocks. One of my main takes from it: Abram better be ready to back up his bluster. Cheeky is one thing, disrespectful is another. He's walking a fine line and he better be ready for his Welcome to The NFL moment once the games count.
But that's not the real story, nor did Hard Knocks give us the real story on Antonio Brown. Oh, we got a lot of references to "foot problems," but no insight into what they were or how they happened. Now we know, of course. But even crazier is this whole "helmet" issue and "radio silence" news that's breaking today, look it up if you haven't seen it.
I don't know if it's all true, but there's too much smoke there for there not to be a pretty big fire.
Honestly, I've been bracing myself for something here. Not just only because it's Antonio Brown, but also because it's the Raiders. Randy Moss, Javon Walker, etc. Our history with big splash WR signings is littered with clown show material, and so here we are again.
That said, if these reports are true, it's gotten nuttier much faster than even the most jaded observer could have expected.
Let's hope all the nonsense is confined to camp and that A.B. hits the ground running once the season starts, because if he doesn't, it could get real ugly.
posted by Raider Take at 1:58 PM
111 Comments:
RT,
Glad to hear you're having a good summer. The AB situation is depressing. He is taking Diva to a whole new level. That being said I'm sure he'll be there when the lights come on and he needs his game check. I sure hope so because he thoug me he might be a big distraction man oh man that one practice he played he absolutely torched the Raiders secondary he could not be covered, he truly is on another level athletically compared to your average NFL player, it was stunning to watch him in action.
On another note the thing that has impressed me about Hard Knocks is Richie Incognito the man is a beast.
Regards
Sandy
15 years is a long time, RT, made longer by the fact the Raiders have sucked during that period (except for a brief moment). So, Cheers!
The AB thing is so absurd, I can't really give it much credence. If his diva is so big this gains more traction than he will confirm it was a mistake to sign him.
Your are spot on about Abram. His bluster is borderline disrespectful. He better have some chops to back that up. Gruden is definitely working with a lot of personalities.
I was impressed by Incognito's exchanges on Hard Knocks, but also concerned about reports he got burned by the Rams pass rush in scrimmages. This is part of what I feared about the guy; he plays when he wants to... but he might also be out of shape.
It's still very early to be making judgments... but observations are fair game.
Thanks for the new post!
GO RAIDERS!!
I finally saw the episode online. Good episode, Abram is definitely a character that is funny. He better back it up, because he is putting a big target on his back. Not much is being said about Clelin Ferrell, especially on Hard Knocks. I know Gruden has authority to say what is and what is not allowable on the show, and I think he purposely kept Ferrell on the down low. A lot of rookies were profiled, but not Clelin, except on a horse.
I am worried about Jackson, no reports anywhere, or updates on what happened. That is bothersome to me. The O-Line is my biggest concern coming into the season. I have no confidence in Tom Cable as the O-Line coach. My other concern is Chucky himself, who is now more of a TV celebrity than a head coach. That was shown with the banter between he and Abram about hitting players without pads. Abram was clowning Gruden like "You're just a TV Guy, and you're not a real coach" attitude.
He may have this attitude, because he probably watched Gruden on ESPN his whole life growing up. I'm still not sold on Gruden as our HC. This is a HUGE prove it year for the Raiders to me. A lot of the same ol' talk about how we are developing a tough team, and the Raiders are explosive and going to have a good year. They have to prove it.
Now the rumor about AB not wanting to play because the NFL banned his helmet style is concerning, but a lot of local media has said this is old news from OTA's. The reports that he keeps trying to bring in his old helmet on the field, in my opinion, is his way of clowning the staff. I think the silence on the team has to do more with the frost bite on his feet. My theory is he has had to have surgery on his feet, and the Raiders want to keep a tight lip on it. They expect him back before the season starts, and a guy like him who works hard probably already knows the playbook and doesn't need the risk of further injury in training camp. I am concerned that the frost bite is worse than first reported.
AB is a lot of things, but he is not a quitter. I don't see him "quitting" football because of a helmet. I think it is absurd, and I think the Raiders leaked that to take the focus off his feet and what is going on. One thing is for sure, the shroud of mystery is in full fog mode once again in Oakland.
Jackson has an MCL injury and is expected to be out two months. That probably means three months because he's a big dude and will need to get back into shape after the injury heals. He could be headed to IR.
Raiders will probably need to pick up someone off the waiver wire when cuts start, just to have enough competent bodies on O-line to start the season.
And as hard working as AB might be, he and Carr need reps.
Raiders finally have WRs who can make contested catches... including my preseason favorite from last year, Keon Hatcher. No way Hatcher makes the roster this year with the talent Raiders have at WR.
Brandon Parker is a bust! Raiders reached in desperation to draft him, and took two LTs at the top of the draft - because they understandably lacked confidence in Kolton Miller - instead of drafting another position of need. If he makes the roster it will again be out of desperation.
Turns out, decent backup QBs are hard to find. Even the Rams QBs sucked. Wasn't Blake Bortles drafted ahead of Derek Carr?
Raiders had some pass pass. Arden Key is quick around the edge. Good sign that he can beat Rams backups, but can he do that against starters?
Marquel Lee was everywhere. Dude took Mack's #52 jersey and became super-human. Burffict will be the starter but Lee should probably be on the field.
Lastly, dumping Chris Warren III in favor of Butler was a mistake, if for no other reason than keeping the mop-up sessions of preseason games interesting. The chip on Gruden's shoulder gets the best of him sometimes.
It's football season!
Parker, a 3rd rd pick and a back up, is a bust after 1 season?
Yes, on almost every team, when the 1st string QB goes down, so does the season?
Marquel Lee was terrible last night, what were you watching?
Chris Warren? You don't keep a young, out of shape player around to mop up pre season games?
The chip on your shoulder makes you stupid?
All this drama around AB is the push to sell Hard Knocks, all the hell hounds are circling AB because he does things his way. The helmet issue happened in OTA's but the hell hounds make out like it just happened. When it comes to shekels, the hell hounds sure get nasty.
Where's the beef?
Marquel had 3 tackles and 2 assists, and one tackle for loss. Raiders had one sack on the game last night from Arden Key (again, against 2nd string), and 3 QB hits/pressures; so pass rush could still be a concern. All around, I don't think this is due to spectacular Raiders Defense, but a Rams offense that sputtered to get anything done last night. Blake Bortles, is well, Blake Bortles.
Mike Glennon had over 200 yards passing, but the 2 interceptions were huge. The one at the 2 yard line hurt the worst. I know Gruden likes him, and he can be an aggressive QB, but there is a fine line of too aggressive, and that is what happened on that pick. He was too aggressive to try and get a pass that wasn't there. He has to read those. He also under threw a few passes, one to a wide open Nelson that he could have taken to the house had he hit him in stride.
Peterman's QB scrambles were impressive. Reminded me of an early DC. Other than that, he wasn't that impressive. A lot of exciting WRs on the team. I was surprised to see that Hunter Renfrow was not even targeted once last night. Overall, a lot of short passes, and a few long ones; so it looks like we are stuck with dink-n-dunk.
Losing Gabe Jackson like that hurts. It happened after the fight too, so I am thinking the Rams did dirty on that. He was engaged with a guy, when another defender rolled into his legs. I know it happens, and it is football, but it is dirty football at this level. Definitely have to find a replacement soon (or at least for 8-12 weeks). Kirkland was also injured on a play, but came back in and played 60% of the game. Brandon Parker played 86% of the game last night, and with his performance, he may be cut. We didn't see our starting O-Line, but the back up showed why they are the backup.
I'm excited about Tey'von Coney, Mo Hurst, and Jason Cabinda. Those guys didn't play much last night, but made some noise on defense and special teams. I still want to see how Vanderdoes, Hankins, Ellis, and PJ Hall do when on the field with Crosby and Ferrell. I think Vanderdoes is the odd man out at DT though.
Bottom line the Raiders won their first Pre-Season game. The Cardinals are next, and I expect the Raiders to thump them soundly.
Nate, I thought I saw Renfrow targeted once, and he was mugged without a penalty flag.
Actually, it was ironic to see McVay challenge a non-call on pass interference against the Raiders, only to have the non-call stand. His team is the reason for this new rule.
Lee was quick and aggressive, and was around the ball a lot. He was QBing the defense and led the team in tackles. I was never a huge fan of Lee. In fact, I've been critical in the past, especially around the time Bowman was brought in. But Lee looked decent to me. I couldn't take my eye off him because he was wearing Mack's jersey.
Brandon Parker is a bust. You can bank on it. Fringe players ate his lunch. If he can't contain 2nd and 3rd string players after starting all last year and his so-called "strengthening" program during the off-season, he has no chance in the NFL.
Alec Ingold (4 catches) should supplant Keith Smith as FB. Ingold looks like a dynamic player who can run, catch and block. Stone-hands Smith is one-dimensional. He's a blocker. Period!
Lee did not lead the team in tackles. Maybe you had love in your eyes because of his new number? Don't they call people like you fan boys? It isn't Mack's jersey any more.
Too early to give up on Parker, it seems you have your fav's to like and to kick as well?
your gone and out of this world
Did you watch the game, Jones, or do you just disagree for the sake of it?
Who had more tackles than Lee on the Raiders?
Mack will go to Canton with his #52 jersey but, you're right, by that time it will be like he never played for the Raiders. His season MVP and record breaking two position all-pro year will be a faded memory, and hardly worth your time.
Personally, I was happy to see the #52 out there flying around like it meant something. Maybe it will inspire Lee to play better... looks like it already has.
DEFENSE STATISTICS
Player Comb Total Assist Sck Fumb
Nevin Lawson 6 4 2 0.0 0
Alex Barrett 5 4 1 0.0 0
Marquel Lee 5 3 2 0.0 0
D.J. Killings 3 3 0 0.0 0
Anthony Rush 3 3 0 0.0 0
Gee, that took me all of 5 seconds, why can't you do that? Too stupid?
By the way, Parker played mostly RT and did a decent job. Just because some blogger says he didn't, and you parrot it.
Mack is gone, he didn't want to be a Raider, you are right, hardly worth my time and your worship.
Lee was very avg and your fan boy take is very revealing about how you look at the game.
SLAP
Parker did not do a decent job. On 3 plays in a row, he looked stupid and lost. The first was a pass play, the defender smoked him as he tried to lay a hit off the snap, and got around to pressure Glennon who had to get the ball out quick, and fell incomplete. The very next play was a run play, where Parker got off the line and left his feet to smoke a LB, only for the LB to juke out of the way, Parker ends up in the dirt with no block, and the LB takes the RB down (I think it was Butler). The third play he was called for holding, while giving up a shot on Glennon. If you're gonna' hold a player, you better not let him get a shot on the Q. Dude did not have a good game, and he fell way short of a decent job.
You did beat me to the Lee stats, he had an ok game but didn't lead the team in tackles. He was around the ball all night though, and compared to Brandon Parker, Lee had an excellent game.
BTW, the official game scorer showed Renfrow had zero targets and catches. He may have had the hot route that was taken away on what should have been a penalty, but the ball did not fly his way.
Parker had switched from RT to LT at that point and it took him a few plays to adjust. He was steady other than those few plays. Lee missed tackles and was a couple steps behind the play usually.
Did I upset you by scolding your boyfriend? You seem just as dumb as him, you make a nice stupid couple. Maybe you two should get a room?
KICK
Brandon Parker was not deserving of a third round pick, most scouts had him 4th or 5th round as a project. There were a lot of great players still on the board the Raiders could have picked there, and passed on. Parker played LT the entire game, and is listed as the #2 LT. It wouldn't surprise me if he continues to struggle that Gruden cuts him and finds another LT. Kolton Miller isn't fairing any better either.
I blame Tom Cable here. His lack of coaching ability and his lack of scouting is rearing it's ugly head again. Mark Davis should have told Gruden to find another coach.
Maybe you should check out what you write, before you write it. Parker played RT to start and switched to LT.He did it again when Peterman came in. Are you really this dumb?
Miller is doing just fine so far this year....Dumb and dumber strike again.....trying to act smart and make themselves look even dumber, if that is even possible. No wonder this place is as dead as pedo island.
....is Panty's trade mark...
Go look at the depth chart, Parker is listed as the 2nd string LT. Played LT the entire game. Did you watch the game? Sounds like you didn't, or maybe you get confused when the team switches direction on the field?
Miller hasn't played in a game yet, but will this weekend. He has severely struggled in Training Camp, and struggled in the joint session with the Rams. Again, I think both can be better players, and this is where I blame Cable. I don't think he's a good coach, never have.
The one area that did not need to change on this roster was the O-Line, and that is the one area that Cable changes. He didn't like Penn, he didn't like Osemele, because they were not soft and hate the ZBS.
Gruden said he was coming in to implement a hybrid ZBS/Power system, and we still have yet to see it from Cable. Cable is a straight ZBS guy, and likes his O-Line to be finesse. Hudson can do both, which is why he is such a great player. Gabe Jackson proved he can do both, and he has learned a lot in his few years; and doesn't get as much attention from his draft class (drafted after Mack and Carr btw). Tackle is going to have to be addressed after this year, again. Miller reminds me of Robert Gallery. So much talent and is a smart guy, but cannot translate it in game time.
Fuck, you are stupid .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6g-AjlP_e0 ......see # 75 playing RT? I can see it, why can't you?
Miller has done well so far in camp, what reports are you listening to? Some Raider hater blog? Penn is done and Osemele is injured again. Are you going to start crying about Feliciano again? Mack? Cooper? Little snowflake is still mad?
Raiders are on the way up and you still whining like a little girl.....change your tampon.
Bloody hell
I am going with NY on this as of now Parker does not look like a serviceable NFL starting tackle. Hopefully he improves but he seems very much the project he was viewed as coming out of college. Hence why they paid huge money for Brown.
Regards
Sandy
I thought the Cardinals wouldn't be that good, but I didn't think they would be this horrible. 26-0, Raiders have scored on all 4 possessions, and a safety just now. Anyone else think Kingsbury is over his head? I wasn't sold on Kyler Murray as a QB, and I bet he is wishing he stuck with the A's.
I am excited the Raiders are having an excellent game so far, and I am hoping that no one is injured this game. That said, I think that next week's game against the Packers is really going to show what the Raiders team may look like. Next Thursday is going to be a season indicator for me. It is also a special day, as my son turns 12. Just Win, BABY!
Haven't had a chance to see the game yet. Might watch it later tonight. Saw the early 26-0 score and was really pleased. My guess is Murray is probably not that bad, and the Raiders are probably not that good, but it's a really good sign things are moving in the right direction.
I really believe Gruden would have drafted Murray had he dropped to the 4th spot. Thankfully, he did not. Everyone is looking for the next Patrick Mahommes.
Raiders are stacked at WR and have plenty of depth in the defensive secondary. Joyner looks like a great acquisition. A real leader and a class act.
Murray did not look good at all. He looked lost, and kept clapping his hands without the ball being snapped, which produced 5 false starts against him. Brett Hundley should be the starting QB for the Cardinals. I bet he wishes he would have played ball with the A's after last night.
To make it worse, Kingsbury looked lost as coach too, and it wasn't until after the 5th false start that he asked an official why, and relayed it to Murray. Should have been done after the first or second time; or he should have known as Head Coach what his QB could and couldn't do. The whole first half was Kliff and Kyler trying to play a college game. Cards are going to be terrible.
Unfortunately, PJ Hall is losing a battle against Ethan Westbrook for a DT spot. PJ has been battling an injury and hasn't shown much. He looked lost last night. I really like Hall, and am disappointed how he has come out flat this season.
Keisean Nixon led the Raiders with 5 tackles, Benson Mayowa was second with 3. Te'Von Coney had 1 tackle and 1 assist, but was around the ball. He's going to be a stud in a few years. The second half Raiders was very different than the first half though. The Raiders still need to work on depth, but I know that will come in time.
On to the next game against the Packers, and then the Seahawks. These 2 will be a barometer of where the Raiders are as a team going into the regular season.
Nate, NY
What do you guys think of the play of Kirkland? He looks like he could start until Incognito and or Jackson are back. It seems to be him or Dervey who obviously has experience. The wild card is Good who has been activated.
I dont think Cotton makes the team.
Regards
Sandy
Sandy,
I think Kirkland starts on the Left Side, and Devey starts on the Right side. Another good sign is Denzelle Good is back from injury and getting into football shape as well.
Parker had a better game against the Cards, but again, Packer and Seahawks will be the litmus test, especially since it doesn't seem the starters will be playing. I agree about Cotton too, not sure he makes the teams, but that depends on how Good recovers and Gabe Jackson timeline.
Most of the time, a guy like Devey is kept as depth for multiple positions, while a few guys are cut. I think the line shapes out as: Starters-Miller, Incognito, Hudson, Kirkland, Brown. Depth-Cooper, Devey, Hunt, with either Good or Cotton. Right now Cotton has the upper hand, but it depends on how Good recovers. IR-Jackson. I am not sure if we see Gabe Jackson return this season.
Now another surprise is Bleacher Report recently reported that they feel Incognito may be a surprise cut because of how well Cooper has done. If that happens, Cotton could be a good keep; but I honestly would be surprised if they cut Incognito.
Jackson's injury is a bigger setback than Incognito's suspension. However, Raiders look like they might be able to piece together a serviceable line to get through the first couple weeks. Proof will be in the pudding. Can Miller stop pro edge rushers, and can the interior create running lanes for Jacobs once the "real" action begins.
Reports said 6-8 weeks for Jackson, but he's a big guy who will have to get back into football shape once his injury heals. IMO, best case is if the Raiders put him on IR with designation for return. That's like 8 weeks into the season. He shouldn't miss the entire season, but let's not pretend he'll be back during the first month. Plus, placing him on IR opens a roster spot. Raiders won't have much choice.
I can't imagine Incognito not making the team (especially with the Raiders lack of O-line depth). He can still dial it up. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Raiders pull a lineman off the waiver wire before the season starts.
Let's not forget who's coaching these guys... Tom Cable. Ugh!
NY, Nate,
Thanks for the feedback. One player we are forgetting to mention is Sharpe. He looks like he easily beats Parker for the swing tackle roll.
Going to watch episode 3 of Hard knocks now. My favorite line from episode 2 was when Gruden was speaking to Peterman and said the following. "Hey sorry for being a dick....but I am a dick"
Regards
Sandy
Watched the 3rd installment of Hard Knocks. Gruden is such a fantastic players coach.
One small thing I noticed is that every time they show Cable he has a dumb look on his face and says nothing. How was this guy the Raiders coach for a year and a half. How does he keep getting jobs does he have compromising pics of head coaches--lol?
Regards
Sandy
Cable is an anomaly. I think he'd serve better in college than the NFL, but then again, I wouldn't want my son under his "tutelage". The only reason he played in the NFL as a player was due to the '87 strike, where he was a scab player for the Colts. How is this guy still in the NFL is beyond me. It is definitely a "Who-you-know" league.
Gruden is a TV Celebrity, and that is what makes Hard Knocks work. I know he is helping them edit what they can/can't use, so as to not give away too much of what they are trying to accomplish. I'm trying to get "free" streaming of the show. I've seen the first episode that someone posted on Facebook, but nobody has posted the other shows. However, I did see a clip of Derek Carr telling Gruden that Gruden's system/continuity has helped him recognize how the opposing defense wants to stop them, and he's making proper adjustments. The look on Gruden's face was priceless when Carr said that. It shows the importance of continuity. A player needs it, not to get "used" to a system, but also to see how the opponents are going to respond.
I find it humorous how the media was played by the Raiders about AB's helmet "drama". ESPN, NFL Network, and Fox Sports are now commenting how the situation seemed to "fluff out". It was never a big deal, except to the media, who overplayed their hand about the situation.
Raiders' players to watch tonight (imo): Devey, Kirkland, Cotton, Parker, Sharpe, DWash, James Butler, Doss, Gabe Wright (DT), PJ Hall, Te'von Coney, Keisean Nixon, Marquel Lee, and Quinton Bell. Some of these guys are on "the bubble" for making the roster (Wright, Cotton, Doss, PJ Hall, Nixon, Coney). I think there are a few of these who need a big game tonight or they will be cut (Parker, Butler, Hall, and K Smith) From my understanding none of the starters will be playing the next 2 games, and quite frankly, I don't blame Gruden for that.
My understanding is that Raiders/Gruden have a say in editing and publication of hard knocks. I wouldn't read too much into Cable not saying anything in front of cameras... not many assistants have. That said, he does look lost like a deer caught in headlights.
I would guess there aren't as many bubble players as we think. Gruden has his list together.
Here's my 2 cents so far....
For some reason, Doug Martin is once again getting a pass on preseason action. I think he carried the ball 1-2 times. Richard seems to have found Gruden's elite club too. Washington has looked great, while Butler and Brown are both ok... and probably both get cut.
If I could lobby for anything right now, it would be to keep Alec Ingold over Keith Smith. I can't stand the Raiders having a FB that can't catch. Ingold has as many receptions in preseason as Smith had all last year. Raiders need more from the FB position. Ingold was a nice find. Hope they don't screw it up.
PJ Hall has been disappointing from the start but I'm not sure Gruden is ready to cut bait with the 2nd round pick from last year... because he might also drop last year's 3rd rounder (Parker).
I think O-line gets two extra roster spots with Incognito's suspension and assuming Jackson goes to IR. Presumably both open spots go to guards.
Te'von Coney was undrafted and probably goes to practice squad without much risk to the Raiders. Ross and Doss to the practice squad might be a bit more risky, but probably where one or both are headed. Ateman may get cut outright. Crazy all the talent at WR, and Waller could end up being a monster #1 TE (won't the Ravens be disappointed).
Sharpe is in his third year and likely becomes the swing tackle, beating Parker with respect to performance and experience.
Arden Key looks really good so far (particularly in situational downs instead of 3-down DE he was forced to play last year), but I'm afraid Ferrell might find himself where Key was last year... a bit over his head. I anticipate Key will take a big step forward while Ferrell may underwhelm... but with upside potential. The DE rotation is much improved but still weak.
(Since even doubling last year's sack total isn't good enough, I expect Guenther to dial up a lot more blitzes this year.)
Jonathan Abram is most impressive. This kid looks like the real deal. I was disappointed when the Raiders drafted him, thinking edge rusher, or even guard or TE was a higher priority. Yet, Abram has become the player I most enjoy watching right now. Look for him to impact a game or two.
Overall, the Raiders seem much improved. The leadership is really impressive, with several rookies taking control... like Ferrell and Abram, as well as savvy vets like Joyner, Burfict, A Brown and Derek Carr (caught on HK film asking teammates to put everything out there for him... as he does for them on every play).
There's not much I don't like so far in preseason and watching Hard Knocks. Very excited about this season!!
Indeed, the Autumn wind is a Raider!
PS another cool moment was Gruden telling Glennon to watch his eyes and not allow DBs to focus on where he was going with the ball. Seems that gets overlooked too much (no pun intended).
Gruden is obviously a savvy player's coach. He has a chip on his shoulder which maybe he deserves after winning a SB, but that ship has long sailed... he needs to get this team back on track.
Nick Nelson is going to get cut, he's been burned twice in tonight's game and has not played well at all. Keisean Nixon will make the team and so will Keelan Doss. Not a lot of guys played tonight due to turf which is disappointing, but that is what happens when they schedule a game at a field they've never seen. Playing on an 80 yard field, what a joke.
Again my worry going into the season is pass rush and O-line. Pass rush is pretty anemic again tonight, no pressure from the ends. All the pressure is coming up the middle with the DT's, but no sacks. Not a pretty sight to behold on the defensive front. Offense looks to have so much depth, and they are going to score points, but they have to make stops defensively. Not gonna lie, I'm worried going into this season a little bit. We will see what happens, as it is another year for the Raiders to JUST PROVE IT, BABY!
Defensive front is looking good with plenty of depth. Key looks like he has taken a big step forward and the #4 pick overall will progress as the year goes on. Play calling will be different than last year, on both sides of the ball. Can already see more effective blitzes being used and more speed on the back end.
The D has some real good looking pieces now with depth. DB's look strong, LB is probably the weakest spot again, D-line is going to surprise fans.
The O-line is going to be dominant, especially once the pieces are in place. So may weapons for the QB and Gruden is going to dial up some play calling that wasn't seen last year.
It's a new year and so far the team is looking pretty tight, for what Raider fans have had to endure for 2 decades, this is looking a whole lot more solid than in the past.
Gruden and Co. are doing a really good job, now it's up to the players and the talent is there, now chemistry has to kick in and who knows how far it can go?
Haters hate and whiners whine (especially on here)
Cable has the O-line looking really good. But he looks lost on the sidelines? How is he supposed to look? Once you have a bone in your mouth, you sure chew it?
Parker is doing fine, why is that a topic that is repeated over and over? He was a 3rd RD pick, they usually are role players and back ups?
Gruden wants the best 53 on the roster starting the season, who cares where they came from? Could have 5 or so UDFA's on the team, if a 2nd or 3rd RD pick is beaten out of his roster spot by one of them, does it matter?
Weak talking points
I catch HK on YouTube down here in OZ if you search you can find full episodes a day or two after it originally airs.
Toph
Haven't watched Packers game yet but I did see the list of player snap counts. That pretty much tells the story. With possible exception of Brandon Marshall and some special teamers, it doesn't appear any starters played a snap.
Preseason Game 3 used to be the game which starters got more work in order to shake off the cobwebs and get prepared for the season. I would imagine that's especially important for teams who are rebuilding.
What does it say when offensive starters only play together in one series during the entirety of the pre-season? It's not like Gruden plans to play Carr, Jacobs, et al in Game 4.
Is this new formula NFL-wide? And should we be worried Carr & Co. might not be fully ready when the games begin?
How little is not enough?
Behind the times? Just like with the RT situation? Established starters hardly play in preseason anymore. Most of their work is done in the meeting room and in scrimmages/walk throughs. Players are ready to play when they show up to camp, preseason used to be the time to get in shape. Players are already to go and if they aren't, they usually don't last.
Your quote of seeing what the team is really made of in the last 2 preseason games, made me laugh as I watched the game. You write so many comments and are usually way off, it's funny.
Ny and Nate belong in the clown car.
Jones, you are extremely quick to criticize (you must be fun at parties!). All I asked was how little is too little. 3rd game of preseason has always been a benchmark for starters to get their feet wet in preparation of the season. That didn't change because Derek Carr and the entire Raiders starting roster didn't play.
Here's a short list of QB's who did played in their 3rd preseason game.
Andy Dalton 7/10 passing
Eli Manning 4/8
Matt Ryan 9/14
Cam Newton 4/6
Tom Brady 8/12
Nick Foles 6/10
Baker Mayfield 10/26
Jamis Winston 9/19
Matthew Stafford 12/19
Dak Prescott 2/5
Patrick Mahomes 8/10
Russell Wilson 6/9
Derek Carr is not as accomplished as most of the QBs on this list. Hell, Tom Brady, who just won a Super Bowl, played 36% of his teams snaps.
Derek Carr and the Raiders offensive starters only played one series in preseason. That's never happened before on the Raiders, and I would guess on any other team as well.
Again, my question is, how little is too little? Will the Raiders starters truly be prepared to start the season?
This is a team coming off an epic collapse and in process of rebuilding.
Oh, that's right, they watched film and did work throughs! I feel so much better.
NY,
I hear you but it seems to be the trend. If you want to be pissed be pissed at Mark Davis, they should have found another field in the Bay Area to play that "home game" on. No way Gruden lets his players on that crappy turf.
On another note, all the best to Andrew Luck. A great player and a intelligent person. Colts fans like most fanatic sports fans are ridiculous, booing him was a disgrace. If he had any doubts about retiring that should have cemented his thinking. The only thing that matters in life is your mental and physical health and your family. Owners, coaches and most fans don't give a crap about what these guys endure. The guy had 100 mm inearnings, a 1st child on the way, totally made sense.
From a football perspective I think this reinforces the necessity of protecting your franchise QB at all costs. In other words Trent Brown---great deal.
Regards,
Sandy
Gruden said he didn't have a problem with the field. It was where they took out the goalposts in the endzone where G.B. put up a stink about it. The turf is the same as any other turf in the NFL.
Fans who boo'ed Luck off the field are the ME generation at work. The fans care that they put up money to watch Luck and they feel Luck gave up on the team. Do they care that Luck has the rest of his life to live out? Do they care that Luck has been living a life of pain and if he kept playing, would have had to do so for the rest of his life? Nope, the fans can only think of themselves and boo a guy who couldn't live the life of pain anymore. Sad commentary on us humans.
If the offense plays like crap on opening day, then Gruden will rethink his preseason rosters, I'm sure. I guess NY is running out of bitchin points, so he has to go back to WHY AREN'T THEY PLAYING IN PRESEASON. Different year, same old crap from NY. And talk about criticizing, it's all you do. Queen bitch, you must have a wet tampon every day.
SLAP.
Slap,
Yes the goal post holes were the main reason but CFL fields are far below the quality of turf fields in the NFL and a lot of guys were left home by Gru before the goal posts became an issue pre game.
A very humane and thoughtful comment on Luck, quite the contrast from your rage against NY.
Let's move on to the D-Line perhaps the weakest part of the team. I just saw Luiget was signed. If Hurst, Rush, Hankins are locks. Are they kicking tires on Luiget. If he makes the team I could see one of Ellis or PJ Hall being out in addition to Vanderdoes out. I am more worried about the ends. Hall, Crosby, Ferrell make the team that are some oyung guys to combine with medioccre vets such as Mauro or Mayowa. That sounds lame to me.
Sandy
If simply asking a question is "bitching" then so bet it. I think it's a legit issue. The Raiders have never done this before, with Derek Carr only getting about 6 snaps the entire preseason. He's good but there's no substitute for live action, and the Raiders are coming off an horrendous season.
Sandy, I think the D-line will be ok if the LBs and secondary play better (as they should) and Guenther dials up more blitzes. I agree, edge is still the main concern... to the point of neglect during the off-season. Like Key last year, Ferrell has his hands full.
Rush is a major surprise. He might make some unsuspecting interior player expendable. Raiders have a few undrafted rookies that have legit shot to make the roster. Media reports suggested that if Rush hits the waiver wire he will be playing on another 53-man roster. Same with Doss. These guys probably don't make it to the Raiders practice squad. So if they're cut, let's hope it's for good reason.
Gruden did not like the field, when he got there, he announced his starters wouldn't start, same with GB. Not sure the starters will start against Seattle either.
Sandy said, "Hall, Crosby, Ferrell make the team that are some oyung guys to combine with medioccre vets such as Mauro or Mayowa." I don't think Mayowa or Mauro makes the team, I think Ethan Westbrook will make the team and start opposite of Ferrell, the other will be replaced with a linebacker.
PJ Hall decided to show up against GB, and got some great push, but I think it is too little too late for him. Hopefully he ends up on the Practice Squad, or is picked up by another team. Vanderdoes is gone, unless they put him on IR again. He hasn't been out playing at all this preseason, still trying to comeback from an injury.
CSN Bay Area reporter Scott Bair has put out his projected roster. His is the 2nd projected roster that has Richie Incognito cut (Levi Damon is the first I saw). He has Keelon Doss, Brandon Parker, Rush, Mayowa, Mauro, and Keisean Nixon making the team. While Te'von Coney, Incognito, Cabinda, Ryan Grant, De’Mornay Pierson-El, Rico Gafford, Keon Hatcher, and Marcell Ateman not making the team. Not sure I agree with some of this.
I don't think Parker makes the team over Incognito, especially when Kirkland can play both Guard and OT. I think Coney and Cabinda make the team, not Wilbur. I think Mayowa and Mauro will both be released as both have under preformed. Coney or Cabinda will take one of those spots, and Westbrook will take the other. It is hard to see that Gabe Wright gets the axe too. I think Gabe Jackson goes on IR, even though Bair has him on the roster, and Cotton takes his place until he returns. I'm not sure about Nicholas Morrow and Marquel Lee making the team. If anything it will be for special teams. It is going to be tough cutting some players, but we have to get down to 53.
Luck's retirement surprised me. I think his shoulder was more injured than everyone thought, and he may have done more damage coming back early to play last season. He was lights out, but looked uncomfortable more often than not. I hate his own hometown booed him, I'd hope Oakland/Vegas has more class than that, but we will see if they boo Carr/AB if they don't produce. Very good thoughts on that Slap.
JUST PROVE IT, BABY!
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/08/23/jon-gruden-winnipeg-field-was-fine-ask-green-bay-what-the-problem-was/
Bair? Damien? Experts? Now that is funny.
Carr and AB will produce, how can't they? Why would Incognito be cut?
Well I am happy to give you ideas to write about, just try and be a little more accurate in your posts. Otherwise, you end up being just like nyraider.
Smarten up
Nate, I read some of the starters didn't make the trip to Canada (not sure which ones). The poor field condition (with visible sod damage in at least one end zone) wasn't discovered until day of the game (per the game announcers), so it appears there was no intention to play starters.
One of Gruden's most memorable lines during Hard Knocks was "don't touch the merchandise" referring to Derek Carr. Clearly, he'd rather Carr go from training camp right into the season without playing any preseason snaps. Certainly understandable to want to protect the QB.
But Carr's lack of playing time will be a wildcard starting the season. Maybe the the offense with Carr comes out firing on all cylinders, or maybe Mike Glennon is a better prepared Game 1 starter based on his action in preseason. I'm not saying either is true, only that we won't know until we see what Carr can do in his first live game since last year.
I don't agree or disagree with keeping Carr out of preseason. Only recognize that his lack of playing time could be an issue.
Jones prefers to prognosticate with absolute certainty... which perhaps adds to his entertainment value but doesn't make him any smarter, despite what he thinks.
NAte,
I disagree with you on a few things Wright, Coney, Cotton are not making the team maybe practice squad. Westbrook may but he is a DT.
Lee, Mauro and Morrow all make the team
Incognoito not making the team is total click bait, Damon is a nobody and Bair is a joke if he says that.
NY, are you not worried about the d line. Come on Arden Key right now would be the odds on favorite to lead the DE in sacks. That is scary seeing as he had one last year.
Nate dont you think they should keep Ryan Grant? He is probably the third best WR after Brown and Williams. Renfrow is a rookie and Nelson though able to take the top off a defense is a situational guy at best.
Regards
Sandy
Sandy, my posts above address my concerns about the D-line. If the Raiders doubled their sack total last year, they would still be the worst team in the league. However, I believe a large part of that is Guenther's propensity to play coverage instead of pressuring the QB. All the talk about effecting the QB was BS. Raiders were not capable of 4-man pressure.
This year, Guenther seems like he will be dialing up more blitzes (unless he backs off his preseason pattern). Also, Raiders got better and faster in the secondary. LBs are smarter, but have yet to see them excel in coverage.
Arden Key will be situational, instead of playing 3 downs where he did not do well. I think too much will be asked of Ferrell, as the Raiders have no depth behind him. DE for the other side is a mystery.
The middle of the D-line is where the Raiders have the most options and depth. This rotation should be fine.
As I said in my last post, DE was not adequately addressed, to the point of neglect. This glaring weakness will need compensation in the form of blitzing and help at the edges. But the D is much improved... it will be up to Guenther to make it happen.
Westbrook is listed as a DT, but has lined up the last 2 games at DE, and has pushed buttons at that spot. He has had some amazing pushes and QB pressures, to the likes that we haven't seen from any other guy lining up at that spot not named Mack. I think Raiders move him there.
Key does look more disciplined this season, and I am super happy about that. I haven't seen him over pursue the QB, nor jump his lane on a running play. A lot of his problem last season was not doing his assignment, but going "extra" to try and make a play. If he can remain disciplined during the season, he may have a break out year. Pretty excited about that possibility. Gruden and Guenther should constantly be in his ear to "Stay in Your Lane!"
Sandy, I like Ryan Gant, not saying he doesn't make the team, he and Keelan Doss deserve the spots. Here is my quote about Scott Bair's reporting, "While Te'von Coney, Incognito, Cabinda, Ryan Grant, De’Mornay Pierson-El, Rico Gafford, Keon Hatcher, and Marcell Ateman not making the team. Not sure I agree with some of this." Pierson-El, Gafford, and Ateman I can see, Hatcher is a coin flip as well, but Gant and Doss? Worked their butts off to make the team. I like them both, more than Renfrow too.
I agree, I don't see Incognito being cut, especially over Brandon Parker. I think the O-Line shapes out with Jackson starting on the IR.
Here are my 52 projections:
QB-Carr, Glennon
RB-Jacobs, Richard, Washington
FB-Ingold
O-Line-Miller, Cooper, Hudson, Kirkland, Incognito, Brown, Devey, Sharpe, Jackson (IR), Good
TE-Waller, Moreau, Carrier
WR-Brown, Williams, Renfrow, Gant, Doss, Hatcher
(25 offense)
DE-Ferrell, Key, Crosby, Westbrooks, Mauro
DT-Hankins, Hurst, Liuget, Hall
LB-Burfict, Marshall, Whitehead, Lee, Morrow, Coney, Cabinda
CB-Worley, Conley, Mullen, Nixon, Lawson
S-Abram, Joyner, Joseph, Harris
(25)
K-Carlson
P-Cole
LS-Sieg
(3)
Doug Martin has been released by the Raiders, thus securing D'Washington's roster spot. This is the best news I've heard today.
Wasn't Martin cut a few days ago? You said Gruden was the one who poo poo'ed the turf in Winnipeg? Where do you get your info? Pony Express?
Ny, you don't think Carr and Brown are going to have good season? Only thing that will stop them is injury. It's about as certain as it gets.
Are you still mad because you never get it right? Don't blame me because you are as dumb as a stick, maybe I'll go back into the archives and bring up some real whoppers that you have written? I've got the time.
You dummy
"Ny, you don't think Carr and Brown are going to have good season?"
Where did I say that?
Straw man much, Jones?
That's okay. I understand. It's all you have.
See the ? at the end of that sentence?
Man, you guys are getting dumber, not smarter.
You didn't even know that Sharpe and Parker were rotating at T in the preseason.
You said Gruden was the one who didn't want to play on Winnipeg turf.
Now you think Icognito will be cut, the laughs just keep coming, it's like you aren't informed at all, what gives?
Smarten up
Nate
I just found the article you sited by Bair. He says the following in it;
"It's also important to note that we're NOT projecting Incognito will get cut outright. The Raiders will move Incognito to the suspended list before final cuts -- that's why he's not considered "in" -- and will re-join the roster after Week 2. Kirkland could be out when he comes back from a two-game ban."
Makes sense but still dont think Bair is much of a journalist but better than Levi
Sandy
I have them both on my 53 projection, I don't see why it can't be done. Bair's projections are almost laughable, I actually respect Levi's 53 projection more than Bair's this season, and that says a lot. The Raiders' beat writer I like is Vic Tafur, but he is now on Athletic.com, and I don't wanna pay for a subscription; but he puts a lot of ideas and thoughts on Twitter.
Reports are that Clowney is in Miami, and has interest in several teams. Teams reported are Eagles, Seahags, Dolphins so far. I wonder what the Texans want, if the Raiders are a team interested, and what they would give up for the help?
Speaking of Tafur, he tweeted this gem, "At some deep positions, there are some obvious moveable players on #Raiders.
Gruden agrees.
'We’ve been talking to a lot of teams, a lot of teams have been talking to us about roster changes.'”
I hope one of these teams is the Texans, and a roster change concerning Clowney. That would be a stellar move for the Raiders, and boost the DE spot for us.
Nate
Completley agree on Tafur. He is the best writer covering the Raiders with Jerry Mac from Contra Costa News group a close second.
BTW, me and my cousin split a subscription to the Athletic and I can assure you it is totally awesome. The best analysis no fluffy articles, Raiders podcast and awesome coverage of other sports also. Their business model was they went out and hired the best sports writers from every newspaper in the country. I do not even read ESPN or SI anymore
Regards
Sandy
On HK last night, Gruden tells Doss (and someone else) that a lot of "teams are calling about you guys." Was that a pat on the back or a direct reference to trade bait?
Regardless of that specific exchange, the Raiders have to be dialing up some possible trades before the cuts... because getting something is better than nothing, and DE and G are still positions of need. They may have trade worthy talent and too many players at WR, interior DL and DB.
Roster decisions...IMO
Incognito is a lock (he's on the sideline during garbage time!).
Sharpe is swing tackle
Jackson to IR (and Incognito suspension opens the door to possibly keeping Parker, temporarily)
Doss stays and Ateman is cut (practice squad)
Rush stays and Ellis is placed on IR
Vanderdose is cut (Gruden stated he has yet to see Vanderdose = kiss of death)
Glennon is backup QB
Peterman gets cut but remains available on couch (because nobody else will sign him!)
Raiders carry 3 RBs (Jacobs, Richard and Washington), and sign Butler to PS.
FB Keith Smith stays and Raiders cut Ingold (to practice squad). I'd hate this move!
Keisean Nixon makes 53-man roster (was lights out last week!)
Nick Nelson gets cut (practice squad if nobody picks him up).
There may be some undecideds but very few at this point. Anyone who plays this week is cut bait. Hopefully, Gruden has seen enough of Doss and leaves him on the sideline. Kid is worthy of a roster spot.
FFB players: Carr, Jacobs (more so now with Martin out), Brown, Waller (sleeper pic), and Carlson. Definitely avoid picking Raiders' D.
Brandon Marshall is the biggest name cut so far. Raiders still dwindling down the roster.
Realizing that Marshall wasn't the solution demonstrates how "weak" the Raiders still are at LB. Raiders are reported to be interested in trading for Dolphins WLB, KiKo Alonzo, who wants out of Miami.
Burfict may be the only real talent the Raiders have at LB, and even that is uncertain until the games begin (remember Derrick Johnson!).
Whitehead is an athletic freak but he's also a liability in coverage. He played every snap on defense, which had to hurt his effectiveness last year.
Waiver wire is going to be key for the Raiders... they are 4th on that list (same as draft).
Note to Gruden: Please don't keep 3 QBs!
Anthony Rush waived. He is raw but he was a Gruden favorite. Seems whenever Gruden talks up a player this time of year it's the kiss of death. His two favorites last year were Hatcher and Chris Warren III.
Ateman was waived too. No surprise there but if you look at the roster after 4pm today, you might see that the 2018 draft class has really thinned out.
After thinking some more, I hope PJ Hall is given another chance. He provides a powerful push in the middle. IMO, his problem is he slows down or even stops after he sheds his blocker, before the play is over. He needs to finish with the same intensity he starts a play.
Keelan Doss and Jason Cabinda were waived, Kevin Smith cut.
Doss was so far down the depth chart, it almost doesn't matter. Except, guys like Brown, Nelson and Grant are probably not long term. Doss might have been.
Would rather have kept Doss or Rush instead of keeping 3 QBs. That makes no sense, and nobody was going to take Peterman off waivers. NOBODY! Raiders had no risk waiving him.
If either Doss or Rush, or maybe Cabinda make it through waivers, Raiders will re-sign one of them when they place Jackson on IR eligible for return (which they can't do until the 53-man roster is set).
But Peterman is unnecessarily taking a roster spot!
Hey Guys
I like the roster but 4 linebackers obvi not enough so I am sure there will be a signing of someone.
I would have kept Doss and Rush over Leavitt and someone like Sharpe/Parker
Sandy
They have too few LBs and too many O-linemen now. I still predict Jackson to IR with designation for return (can practice by Week 6 and play by Week 8) and sign a LB off waivers (or trade).
They went very young at CB... If Worley or Conley go down, it's a rookie.
I don't understand waiving Doss. What's so special about Grant or Nelson? Doss lit it up preseason, and had a foot tapper on the sideline against GB that should have won him a roster spot at the back of the Raiders' depth chart.
So instead of keeping young talented players like Doss and Rush, they kept 3 QBs, and instead of keeping a swing tackle they kept 3 backup tackles (Sharpe, Parker and James--listed as a tackle and 2nd backup center).
They stacked the roster with some nobodies and guys that will never see the field. Whereas, Doss and Rush could make immediate contributions.
And let's be honest, if Peterman hits the field, the Raiders' season is long over. So who cares if the 3rd string QB is Nate Peterman or it's Kent Dorfman? This move is Gruden, personally, and not for the good of the team.
NY
I am going with Dorfman at G till Incognito comes back.
I am hunkering down for Hurricane Dorain here in Florida so I am may be out of commission for awhile. Hopefully power does not go out to long and I miss the opener
Regards
Sandy
Sandy,
Sorry to hear that. I have family down there doing the same as you. Been watching the forecast changing paths but still very dangerous.
Be safe!
Raiders claim Kizer, QB from GB. The guy has started +/- 15 games and all he does is throw INTs. He has never won. Raiders easily handled him with their 2nd team defense in preseason.
Gruden likes collecting QBs. He's a QB hoarder. Does this mean the end for pet project, Nate Peterman? Or will we carry 4 QBs?
Need a LB and DE!!
Sandy,
Prayers your way, brother, and for everyone down in the path. Stay safe, and if needed, evacuate to Austin, and hit me up.
Raiders now have 4 QBs on the Roster, Brandon Parker, 4 linebackers, and cut Wilber, Doss, Rush, Wight, and Good. I think Kizer is a wasted sign. Maybe for trade bait or Practice Squad (since they are keeping 3 QBs). They also ended up cutting Denver Kirkland and Ethan Westbrooks, which is a HUGE surprise to me.
I get way they let Doss go, as exciting as he was to watch. He consistently went 50% on targets vs catches. The great news, he wasn't a first rounder like Cooper. The bad news, he was hungry, and has HUGE potential for growth. I definitely would cut any of the 3 backups for Wilber, Rush, or Wight.
As far as LBs go, Jachai Polite was released by the Jets. He was a third rounder in this year's draft, that most thought had first round talent. There are issues concerning character and he seems to be one of those guys who wants his athleticism to carry him more than putting in the work. He'd be a project, but is he the kind of risk to take? On the other hand, he was picked by Maccagnan, the GM who was fired in May. Did Adam Gase not give this kid a chance because of Maccagnan? According to nfl.com, of the 9 players drafted by Maccagnan this year, only 2 are currently on the roster. Does that say something about Maccagnan or the current regime? I just read he signed with the Seahawks practice squad, so he is still available to snag off the squad to be put on a roster somewhere.
Another Roster casualty that is intriguing to me at LB spot is Shane Ray, former Doncos LB that signed with the Ravens in the offseason, was cut by the Ravens. Ray-Ray Armstrong was also cut by the Browns. Remember him? He played with us a few seasons ago in '14 and 15. He was playing for the Giants last season before being shipped to Cleveland. He is an anomaly to me. He seems to play well, and put up good numbers when he does play, but it seems like something is missing with him that he can't stick to a roster.
Giorgio Tavecchio was waived by the Falcons, which is unfortunate. I'd welcome him back to Oakland too. Maybe Gruden will consider carrying 2 kickers? Just kidding, calm down. :D
A surprising cut was LeSean McCoy from the Bills, and it seems like he will be signing with the Chiefs. That's a big move for the Chiefs.
The Eagles cut C/G Stefan Wiseniewski that the Raiders can pick up for O-line help. Wiz II did well under Cable is first go round with the Raiders.
Raiders were 4th in the waiver priority and could have had their pick of other teams waivers, yet all they got so far is another QB. Once Carr goes down, the team is screwed. So WHO CARES!
Not going to make a big deal about it, but it's very disappointing that Gruden chose to keep 4 QBs instead of keeping Doss. So much praise was heaped on Doss, yet he's a Jag.
Boooo Hooooo
Raiders aren't going to make the playoffs because they lost Doss, who left on his own choice.
As with almost every team in the NFL, once the #1 QB is hurt, the season is over.
Thinking that other teams castoffs are going to bolster the Raiders roster is so yesteryear. Raiders depth is such that they don't get any upgrades from other teams castoffs. That is a good thing, it means the depth on the Raiders is getting where it should. You should be happy about that?
Then you write that you want a player cut from the Jets who is obvioulsy a problem child, it's incredible how you act as if you know better than the HC and GM who watch these guys play every day. News flash, you don't and pretending you do is very child like?
Who's your daddy?
Jones,
I know you are replying to NY, but you also say some things about my post that I want to address.
Picking from "other team's cast-offs" may simply be from scheme fit, coach/player incompatibility, or other issues that have nothing to do with the talent of the player. Every team does this, to help shore up something another team may have missed. I don't think it will push the Raiders over the edge into a Super Bowl Championship, but I do think it will help the overall roster.
I don't pretend to know more than Gruden and Mayock, that is not the purpose of the site. The purpose of the site, is for us to share our opinion on what we would/wouldn't do. My opinion is that I don't understand having 4 QBs on the roster and only 4 LB's on the roster. I don't understand how the Raiders act like they can afford to cut/waive potential undrafted talent as if they have a Super Bowl legit roster? They are wanting to build for the future now, but they are not doing much to ease the process in the here and now. I don't agree with keeping 6 WRs, 4 QBs, 4 LBs, 6 Safeties, and they currently do not have a #1 RDE listed. They have Mayowa and Crosby listed at RDE at #2 and #3 on the depth chart respectively. They currently have no backup to Burfict or Morrow, no one to back up PJ Hall, and still carry 3 TE's.
However, I trust that they have a vision and a plan that they may execute and surprise the bejeezus out of everyone. There are some Free Agents in these areas that may be worth taking a look at too. Here are my list of FA's still available that I would make a move at and kick the tires:
DE-Derrick Shelby, Stacy McGee, Jaylen Johnson, Jonathan Bullard
DT-Malik McDowell
LB-Dominique Easley, Brandon Chubb, Jeremy Cash, Dante Booker, Corey Nelson, Ketner Kupp, Jared Norris, Carroll Phillips, and Noah Spence
OT-Isaiah Battle, John Ulrick, Jylan Ware, Martinas Rankins
OG-Nico Siragusa, Vlad Ducasse, Chance Warmack
Mayock has stated that the 53 will have adjustments.
Obviously, there wasn't room for Doss, they wanted him on the P.S but Doss wanted out. How is cutting the players they did cut, acting as if the have a S.B. roster?
6 Wr's include a top S.T's player that will never be a typical Wr. 4 QB's, as Tafur wrote, "expect that # to be at 3 tomorrow". LB's, this is a spot where they can make a move. 6 S's includes the 3rd C.B. that will play in the slot. Harris is also a good S.T's player.
They have completely overhauled the roster and made it into their own image. They have done a good job at it and it is not a finished product. The team was 4-12 last year, of course there are still going to be spots that need work, every NFL roster does. Picking at these 'spots' doesn't make you a genius, it just shows that you would rather keep poking at the negative and not even acknowledging the positive. This site has been pushing the 'Gruden show' as a joke and that he is out of touch. Now it seems that is not true so you have had to try and keep the narrative alive with weak negatives. This offseason has been mostly positive, you would never know it from you and your 10 day late declarations of what is happening.
This team has been rebuilt in one year, what did you expect? More to come after this year too, 2 more 1st rounders, and you said it was all a mistake. A little more sincerity is needed from you if you want this site to work. Agendas and repeating the same narrative over and over (Brandon Parker, Mack etc) leave you in nowhereville. Stop believing your own bullshit would be a real good start.
SLAP
Nate, NY
Thanks for your well wishes. I am in south Florida so I may only get a tropical storm. The run on the supermarkets, gas stations and home depots it is like the apocalypse is coming.
4 qbs is a little strange. Especially when you examine the fact that their are 23 players on the defensive roster of which 11 are defensive backs, this means 12 players to play the front 7 defensive positions. Seems mighty thin.
At least Rush made it to the practice squad. He may be in the lineup sooner rather than later given the numbers above.
Regards,
Sandy
Seems to me, teams get stacked at certain positions, like the Raiders were at WR and DB. That opens the door for other teams to sign players off waivers and free agency to bolster their rosters. This is the most critical time of year for that, and the Raiders were #4 in the waiver order... meaning they could pretty much sign whoever they wanted.
To suggest the Raiders cannot upgrade weak positions like DE, LB, G, etc. from the waiver wire (free agency) is a joke.
And to have 4 QBs on the roster for even a nanosecond this time of year is a mistake. Raiders should be trying to add players that make sense for the 2019 roster.
They didn't cut Peterman to make room for Kizer, they cut Mauro, a DE. Mauro may not be much to lose for most teams, but the Raiders have grossly neglected DE and can't afford to dump a DE for a #4 QB.
If free agency is so meaningless, as Jones wants us to believe, the Raiders are in deep sh*t at DE and LB.
But at least we have a backup in case Peterman goes down.
"This site has been pushing the 'Gruden show' as a joke and that he is out of touch."
Not true. The Gruden Show was coined here before the start of the 2018 season, when people were still trying to sell the idea that Reggie had guiding influence. He did not.
The original Gruden Show post stated, "What you are seeing is the opening act of what will be The Gruden Show for years to come...The curtain is rising. The Gruden Show is about to begin. We don't know how it will end, but it's hard to give it a thumb's up or down when we haven't even seen the first act yet."
I was never a big Reggie defender. Got pushback for saying didn't rise to the occasion in the long run. Gruden concluded the same, dismantled a ton of his work, and is remaking the team in his image. All doubts about the Raiders being the Gruden Show have now long been erased.
Now the curtain is about to rise on the second act, and we have to see how it plays out. It's not a joke. It's an unknown. It's a results business, so there's nothing wrong with expecting results sooner rather than later, especially with a clean slate, a ton of picks and financial stability inherited from Reggie.
This site has been pushing that Gruden is out of touch. When he traded Mack, this site was all over him and saying he really messed up and you never trade a player of his caliber. Gruden was blamed for it and any quote provided by Gruden on why the trade happened, he was called a liar. Can't count how many times Gruden has been called a liar on this site because what he was saying, didn't fit this site's narrative.
This site said that Gruden only wanted vets and couldn't coach younger players. When I said last year that Gruden was blowing up the team and probably tanking (which they did), I was told I was so wrong and that Gruden just doesn't know what he was doing.
This site is like a moving wall, always has been. Can't argue or have a dicussion with those who keep changing the goaline. Last year, NY lambasted the whole org and the way it was being played out. I tried to tell him that Gruden is transitioning the team and he replied, no, Gruden just doesn't know what he is doing.
And this year, because things look much better, the tone has changed on here. Still plenty of bitching, but less on the 'Gruden doesn't know what he is doing'. Remember the narrative in the national media last year? They painted Gruden as crazy and out of touch and this site went with it. Can't change history Bub, even with your revisionist writing.
Can't fool me
And once again, NY says I criticize to soon, well, Raiders put Peterman on IR, so back to 3 QB's, just like the quote I provided, told ya. All this screaming over another QB signing, again, acting as if the front office has no idea what they are doing, per this site's narrative.
And if you folow the Raiders at all, you would know that Mauro will resign today. it's almost like the writers on here don't even follow the Raiders. It's like they follow NFL.com and that 'pride' site that is always being pushed on here. The writer on that pride site is also a 'I know better' guy who thinks he knows better than any Raider GM or coach, it's very laughable.
But it would seem, in this day of technology, that the moron voice is usually the one that rules the day because they are the ones seemingly willing to state their stupidity over and over and act as if they are the 'expert'. And over time, trying to discuss with these types is just like beating one's head against a wall, there is no sense in it. So this site goes on, speaking to itself as the owner of the site rarely contributes and backs those who bash the team and always has. Every time I start posting on here, quickly I get to the point of telling my self.........why bother, these wannabe's just spew the mainstream media narrative and are about as deep as a puddle. Guess I just get bored, what a waste.
Up yours
Jones, exposing your starting DE to the waiver wire to pick up a 4th QB isn't very smart, especially since it's just been reported that Peterman's injury was known. That move is as ridiculous as it sounds.
Now you want us to believe Gruden purposefully tanked last year?
Really?
Is that all you have?!
That the Raiders re-signed Mauro and Wilber is less than ideal. It means the Raiders thought enough of these guys to release them in the first place, but when upgrades could not be found, they were more or less forced to re-sign them to fill very weak position groups.
Westbrooks seemed like a hustler. He finished a play (sack) in preseason practically crawling on the ground to get to the QB. We have yet to see PJ Hall finish like that.
Nope, I have a lot more, but why waste it on you? Your chicken little routine is old and tired. You are a waste of time, you always have been and always will be.
I might come back and kick you for a while again, even that is getting boring. Have fun writing to yourself, ya freak.
Fuck you
Why do you always make it personal? You're sensitivity gets the best of you. Face it, Gruden is eccentric. You're not always going to be able to make sense of his decisions. You try way too hard.
Hence, The Gruden Show.
We're just here for the ride, talking Raiders and sometimes not making sense. So what? Relax and enjoy the discourse. What fun would it be if we agreed about everything?
Gruden trading Mack was the first sign that he was out of touch with football. The fact he didn't even speak to Mack when he was introduced as Head Coach should have showed us he did not care for Mack. He is an offensive minded coach, with no thought for the defense. You want proof? Look at the 53 man roster.
I've said it before, and I will say it again, in this league, with the WC offense like the Pats run, the way you beat it is with outstanding LB's and slot CB's. We have some terrific slot CB's, but not outstanding LB's. Could have had Kiko Alonso, but didn't make a run for him.
Guys here is part 1 of Vic Tafur roster analysis formt he The Athletic. I copied and paste for oyu, enjoy
Sandy
Well, of course the Raiders picked up quarterback DeShone Kizer on Sunday. Nathan Peterman had sustained an elbow injury at some point after Thursday’s preseason finale and coach Jon Gruden needed a new third quarterback.
(Cough, cough.)
The Raiders finalized their roster Monday morning, placing Peterman on the injured reserve list with the … elbow injury. They also placed rookie cornerback Isaiah Johnson (face) on injured reserve and re-signed defensive end Josh Mauro and linebacker Kyle Wilber.
In keeping Peterman around for a year, Gruden gets to continue working on his favorite pet project without having to talk to the media about it. That’s a win-win. Mike Glennon will serve as the No. 2 QB behind Derek Carr (that was never in question) and Kizer will be No. 3.
Now that the dust has settled, and the Monday night season-opener against the Broncos is a week away, let’s look at the Raiders’ 53-man roster and how it shapes up.
(And for those keeping score at home, I scored a 48 out of 53 on my final roster projection. Not bad considering all the “love” traps that Gruden lays during training camp and the preseason.)
* Denotes starters
Quarterbacks (3): Derek Carr*, Mike Glennon, DeShone Kizer.
The Raiders placed Peterman on injured reserve, and the fan base’s panic over having four quarterbacks on the 53 for a day went up in smoke. It doesn’t really matter if the Raiders kept two or five quarterbacks, if Carr goes down Gruden might as well bring Rich Gannon out of retirement.
Running backs (4): Josh Jacobs*, Jalen Richard, DeAndré Washington, Alec Ingold (FB)
Jacobs only played one possession this preseason, but the first-round pick sure looked the part. Veteran and “mentor” Doug Martin was shocked that he was let go, but Richard and Washington should be able to spell Jacobs just fine. Gruden really did love Ingold, who beat out veteran Keith Smith.
Wide receiver (6): Antonio Brown*, Tyrell Williams*, J.J. Nelson, Ryan Grant, Hunter Renfrow, Dwayne Harris
Who needs Keelan Doss? Renfrow and Grant are both slot receivers who don’t play special teams, but Gruden has apparently long been a fan of each. Nelson was super fast as advertised but showed good hands as well, and won Carr over early on.
Besides, Brown might get 180 targets. Everyone else is fighting for scraps.
Tight ends (3): Darren Waller*, Derek Carrier, Foster Moreau
It was supposed to be an epic battle between Carrier, his protege Paul Butler, former Lion Luke Willson and former Colt Erik Swoope for the third spot, but Carrier blew them all away. Waller is the breakout fantasy player, while the rookie Moreau is a blocker whom the staff is very high on.
Offensive linemen (10): Kolton Miller*, Richie Incognito* (suspended first two games), Rodney Hudson*, Gabe Jackson*, Trent Brown*, Jonathan Cooper, Brandon Parker, Jordan Devey, Denzelle Good, Andre James, David Sharpe
Good (back) returned to practice last week but didn’t play in the preseason finale. It would be nice for the Raiders if he can play in the season opener, because Devey and Cooper have been solid at best in place of guards Incognito and Jackson, who will miss the early portion of the season with a knee injury.
I can’t imagine the Raiders would be comfortable if something happened to Brown or Miller and Parker has to take over at either tackle spot. I thought Parker struggled this preseason and the fact that Sharpe couldn’t beat him out shouldn’t have resulted in each of them getting a spot.
Part 2
Defensive tackles (4): Johnathan Hankins*, Maurice Hurst*, P.J. Hall, Corey Liuget
I was puzzled a couple times the last week, and one of the biggest stumpers was the Raiders giving Liuget a job off of his couch (after several teams passed) and cutting Anthony Rush and Ethan Westbrooks, who both made more plays than Hurst and Hall this preseason. And Hurst and Hall played a lot. (Rush did clear waivers and is on the practice squad.)
I was not surprised by the Raiders moving on from Justin Ellis by placing him on IR. He missed a lot of time with injuries and didn’t make a lot of plays when he was on the field.
Defensive ends (5): Clelin Ferrell*, Josh Mauro*, Arden Key, Benson Mayowa, Maxx Crosby
Mauro was cut Sunday and then immediately re-signed Monday, as the Raiders just needed some wiggle room for a day. Defensive line coach Brentson Buckner is very high on Mauro as a run-stopper, though Key did show some nice progress in the preseason and may be more than a situational pass rusher after all.
Crosby is the wild card of the bunch. He is recovering from a broken hand but should play next Monday. The rookie is very raw but has some giddy-up and the Raiders expect him to make some plays this season.
Linebackers (5): Vontaze Burfict*, Nicholas Morrow*, Tahir Whitehead*, Marquel Lee, Kyle Wilber
I also didn’t understand Mike Mayock’s reasoning for cutting Brandon Marshall. The former Bronco took longer to come back from last year’s knee injury than anticipated, but Mayock said Saturday that, “We were just starting to see that burst that we were used to.” So the Raiders were close to getting the player they sought out and signed, but ran out of patience?
“I think what really happened is if we’re only going to keep four or five linebackers, which is the way the NFL is going these days because of the spread offenses, that fourth or fifth linebacker has got to be a special teams player,” Mayock said Saturday night. “He has to be a core special teams player. If Brandon wasn’t going to be the first guy in on base and play a high percentage of snaps, then we were going to need him to play almost all of the special teams. We really didn’t see that for him.”
On Monday, Mayock and Gruden brought back Wilber, who is exactly that, a fifth linebacker who was the Raiders’ special teams captain last season.
The Raiders knew Marshall wasn’t a special teams guy when they signed him. Let’s just say I think the upside of keeping Marshall is more than that of Parker or Sharpe (I would have kept just one).
Cornerbacks (4): Gareon Conley*, Daryl Worley*, Trayvon Mullen, Keisean Nixon, Nevin Lawson (suspended first four games)
The Raiders placed Johnson on IR Monday, which makes sense since he hasn’t practiced in three weeks with what was originally called a concussion and then updated to a facial injury. Mullen, the rookie, is back from a hamstring injury and it will be interesting to see how quickly he pushes starters Conley and Worley.
Gruden must be happy that Nick Nelson, last year’s fourth-round pick, cleared waivers and signed with the Raiders practice squad on Monday. Nelson hasn’t shown much, but Gruden has always been an outspoken fan.
Safeties (6): Johnathan Abram*, Lamarcus Joyner*, Karl Joseph, Curtis Riley, Erik Harris, Dallin Leavitt
Abram has a chance to back up all the talk on Monday and will try and set the tone with some big hits. Joyner might be the biggest (figuratively) non-Brown addition as he will cover slot receivers and blitz a lot to help the team’s questionable pass rush.
Mayock called Leavitt a core special teams player, but the former practice-squad player making the 53 is by far the biggest surprise of last weekend. The Raiders already had a lot of depth at this position with Riley and Harris.
Specialists (3): K Daniel Carlson, P A.J. Cole, LS Trent Sieg
The Raiders never really considered bringing in a punter off of waivers, and the rookie Cole joins second-year players Carlson and Sieg as the youngest specialist trio in the NFL.
Thx Sandy. Tafur makes a lot of sense. My takeaways (in no particular order):
QB: why bother? As I said before, having 4 QBs on the roster for a nanosecond was a mistake. Tafur seems to agree; Raiders only need two because without Carr they are nothing! Gruden is a QB guy and prefers to collect them. So now he's squirreled away his pet, Peterman, for next year.
RB: This is an interesting situation. Jacobs has never been a featured back. So we don't know if the Raiders have a legit feature RB on their roster, i.e., until we see for ourselves. That said, I will be looking to draft Jacobs in FFB.
OL: This says it all: "I thought Parker struggled this preseason and the fact that Sharpe couldn’t beat him out shouldn’t have resulted in each of them getting a spot." Gruden was quick to dismiss the entirety of his pre-era roster but can't part with his own mistakes. Parker is a bust! Just like Cooper at guard.
DE: Another mystery. Gruden proved he would rather expose his starting DE than cut a QB (which he had 4) or waive Leavitt, who did nothing special during preseason and falls the back of a stacked safety position group.
DT: Keeping Rush and Westbrooks over Peterman and Leavitt seems pretty obvious.
LB: Tafur makes a lot of sense here and explains why Marshall was let go and Wilbur brought back.
I agree with you NY. DL is the weakest link on the team it seems, so why not keep a few more than a middling safety/special teams guy and two mediocre OT. Re lbs I sure hope Morrow can cover TEs and RBs
On a more positive note it looks like Good is healthy and will start at RG and Gabe will be back withing 4 weeks.
Still very worried about DE. A lot of pressure on Ferrell and Crosby to perform. Mauro does not sack the QB and Mayowa is a journeyman.
Raiders are favored by only 1 against the Broncos. Hopefully the offense can pull that one out.
Regards,
Sandy
Sandy,
Thanks for the post, reiterates some of the things I've been saying as well. I am upset that they cut Denver Kirkland, who can play guard and tackle, and do it well. He is a much better lineman than Parker and Sharpe, but this is Cable's doing. Cable cuts those who question him, Kirkland must've have seen something he didn't like, and started asking questions. Cable is a noob.
DE is still the biggest hole to fill on the D-Line. I thought Westbrooks did an outstanding job this preseason. He played DT and DE, and got major push. This was against 2nd/3rd stringers, but it was hopeful to see. I wonder if it was a different story in practice. Don't get me wrong, I love Ferrell, but we have nobody after that.
I liked the explanation about Marshall, but I agree with Tafur that the Raiders should have kept him. I think he is a better player than Morrow. Not saying Morrow is bad, but Marshall is better. Raiders are offense heavy, and light on defense. Going to be another interesting year for the Raiders. I don't think they do better than 8-8.
As was true in 2016, this team will probably need to outscore its opponents in shootouts. Seems Gruden is okay with that since he spent little time or effort upgrading his front 7, particularly DE where there is still a gaping hole since Mack was traded. Ferrell was more of a "safe" pick and not a pure edge rusher. His heart is there but he will likely get handled by plenty of first team tackles. Key will be the player to watch, IMO.
Meanwhile, Raiders have plenty of offensive fire power but it could be a month away from getting the O-line settled enough to keep the offense on the field. Guard is a major weakness while suspension and injury play out... and Miller will need to be a lot better than he was last year.
Definitely a work in progress. Understand that every position can't be upgraded at once but the window is narrow to keep within the framework of key players (drafted and FA). Look at all the movement in the NFL this year. Second contracts with the same teams seem to be fewer and fewer.
Tonight is kind of a repeat of last year when we got to see Mack open the season on national TV wearing a Bears jersey. Mack's presence was enough for me to draft Bears D for FFB last year (a win for me) and this year (hoping for another win). While I gravitate to Raiders players for my FFB, their defense is never an viable option. Would love to see that change.
News coming out today that the Raiders are now planning to suspend Antonio Brown for an argument with Mayock yesterday over his Twitter post about the Raiders fining him for missing a practice and walk through during his "helmet" drama. If the Raiders suspend him, they could void his contract, including the guaranteed monies owed.
If all of this happens, NY, it will be like the repeat of last season, watching Mack on the Bears, while the Raiders have nothing.
My predictions for the season:
NFC East
Eagles 10-6
Cowboys 9-7
Indians 8-8
NYGiants 6-10
NFC North
Bears 11-5
Vikings 9-7
Packers 9-7
Lions 8-8
NFC South
Saints 12-4
Panthers 9-7
Falcons 7-9
Bucs 7-9
NFC West
Rams 12-4
Seahawks 10-6
49ers 9-7
Cardinals 3-13
AFC East
Patriots 10-6
Jets 8-8
Bills 7-9
Dolphins 6-10
AFC North
Steelers 10-6
Browns 9-7
Ravens 9-7
Bengals 4-12
AFC South
Titans 10-6
Jaguars 9-7
Colts 8-8
Texans 8-8
AFC West
Chiefs 12-4
Chargers 10-6
Raiders 8-8
Doncos 7-9
The Raiders will change spots if they void Brown's contract, and fall to 6-10, maybe even another 4 win season. We will see.
What a nightmare! It's a lose lose situation. This could change the Raiders entire season... not to mention I used a high pick to draft Brown as my top WR in FFB.
Threatening the GM with violence could be a terminating offense if the Raiders want to make it. Brown would have been left out to dry by the last two Raiders' GMs... but it's hard to say if either would have issued fines the way Mayock did. That was kinda petty.
Not sure how the Raiders salvage this situation. Hopefully, it's been blown way out of proportion by the media. Or Brown could man up and apologize.
Let's just play some football!
Brown not at practice today, Gruden and Mayock tight lipped. If they suspended him, it was probably for practice. If it is worse, they will be cutting him this afternoon. AB blocked Derek Carr and the Raiders on his Twitter account, I think that is a sign of the latter move. AB needs mental help
Florio says Brown has not been paid any money by the Raiders. He was due a $500k payment if he participated in 85% of pre-season workouts, etc., which he did not. If true, I kind of get why Brown might be pissed off to get fined... he's not been paid anything.
Raiders would be better off to suspend Brown without pay than to cut him so he can sign with another team (e.g., division rival) as a free agent... unless they stand to get compensation.
Al Davis would have let Brown rot on the bench.
NY, Nate
Al usually found a way to make it work with various head cases. It's really sad because per Nate AB is probably worth as much as 3 wins by himself. Footage from the last Hard Knocks episode of him in practice is stunning, no one can even remotely cover him.
It is looking like a bad move to have traded for him in hindsight, but I think the Raiders need to salvage the situation and make peace even if it costs them credibility with other players. To go into Monday night without him per Nate will be as similar a downer as Mack was and probably cast a shadow on the entire season.
This really sucks.
I am not ready to cast blame on the Raiders because how do you know the right thing to do with such a sociopath. However, fining him seems petty in retrospect. Its not like they were not treating him differently already. Why poke the bear or in this case the psycho. Especially when he is the best player on the team by 10x.
Sandy
Indeed. Brown's workout and practice footage is stunning. He's a rare talent. There's no defending what Brown did but Mayock was petty, especially since it was reported that Brown has not made a paycheck since joining the Raiders (he didn't meet participation thresholds). Since he was only to receive game checks, perhaps he thought he only needed to show up for games. Actually, he might be good enough to pull that off.
To echo your statement, Sandy, this really sucks!
NY,
I hope this works out. I am a huge Gruden fan. But if Brown goes down in flames on the eve of the season after Mack did the year before on the eve of the season, even a die hard like me will have to question Gruden's judgment.
Fingers crossed
Sandy
The letter was intended to be a reminder that the Raiders could fine him, as a way to keep him on track (according to a tweet by Amy Trask, yes, the Princess of Darkness). She said the Raiders do not have to fine him, and probably wouldn't, but sent the letter to put him on notice for actions detrimental to the team, so in case something like this happens, they can save $30 million if they needed to.
So far, what we have heard:
Brown misses Training Camp because of frost bite.
Brown is healed, has 2 unexcused absences due to his beef with his helmet.
Brown tweets a pic of a letter from Mayock
Brown yells at Mayock, gets in his face, and threatens to punch Mayock in the face over said letter; while on the practice field with Vontaze Burfict separating him from Mayock.
This is what we know, I cannot imagine what we don't know. What has he done behind the scenes that pissed off Gruden and Mayock? I think it has to do with film room work and meetings. Gruden and Mayock are film guys; and if he fluffs off there, it will get under both of their skins. Brown has no one to blame but himself right now.
On the other side of the coin, however, the Raiders knew this could be the case, and smartly inserted in the contract that he stands to lose his guaranteed monies if he did anything detrimental to the team. Mayock is a genius for this. The letter, if you read it, was more about his actions detrimental to the team, than the fines. This put Brown over the edge because he knows he stands to lose all of his money, on top of not being paid, and on top of being fined.
Rosnehaus has come out and said that he is working to repair relationship with AB and the Raiders, which further tells me that the Raiders are looking to cut him out. In the end, I hope AB swallows his pride, remains a Raider, and plays lights out like he can.
Rumors are now swirling (on twitter, and other social media) that AB threw a punch at Mayock, did not connect, but he swung at him.
If this is true, he is done in the League, not just with the Raiders.
Nate
I did not read that anywhere. What I read is that AB had to be held back by Vontaze which is ironic in itself and that he threatened to punch him
Sandy
Sandy said... "To go into Monday night without him per Nate will be as similar a downer as Mack was and probably cast a shadow on the entire season."
pretty much... it's just hard to get excited about this game, let alone season, if AB's not there... i've been tentatively rooting for him throughout this entire preseason and now it may seem that it's all a bust.
you knew he was a handful when you picked him up! if you weren't prepared to make it work from the get-go then you shouldn't have signed him in the first place. i agree that you can't just let him walk all over you but it's just a bummer. it's a bummer man.
My criticism of the Raiders trading for Brown was that they were rebuilding and Brown was a luxury that would not last through the rebuild process. I never imagined it wouldn't last a single game.
But I quickly accepted the trade because the Raiders gave up so little to get Brown. Then watching Brown work out and catch balls in practice could make any Raiders fan excited about what he brings. His toe tapping one handed grabs are eye popping. And his physical shape is unquestioned. Dude is a workout freak.
Mayock set the stage for this, with his "all-in or all-out" speech to the media. It's unclear whether he spoke those words directly to Brown... which makes sending him a fine letter even more petty. The good cop/bad cop thing is BS. Raiders and Brown could (should) have been more professional.
Brown's agent's involvement is pretty clear; he wants to get paid. If Brown gets cut and signs with another team it won't be for another record contract and it will be equally or more laden with conditions.
The one-game suspension (or deactivation) is a done deal. Raiders have to do that much to save face here. However, IMO, if Brown doesn't ever play for the Raiders it will be because his ego is bigger than his need for self preservation. The ball is in Brown's court to apologize and make this go away.
But we shouldn't hold our breath. Raiders team captains are said to have had a meeting with Gruden and expressed their backing whatever Gruden decides to do with Brown. Meanwhile, Brown is reported to have blocked Derek Carr and the Raiders from his social media. This is the dumbest chain of events I think I've ever seen in the NFL.
Raiders WR depth chart suddenly doesn't look nearly as impressive.
SOS!
Guys,
I think we all agree that on principal you can't have one person on a team or at a company etc. being disruptive to the point of material disruption. That being said the more I think about it the Raiders have handled this incorrectly.
If you bring in Brown you have to resign yourself to the dysfunctional. Do you think they would fine Lebron or Carmelo for missing a walk through? Brown has been a total shit but I mean good lord what did Mayock think would happen when he sent that letter. You signed the guy now get him on the damn field for the game.
Sandy
Brown attends team meeting and gives emotional apology! Mayock is said to be ready to move on. It's up to Gruden!
Remember, Brown has $30M at stake if the Raiders suspend him for even one game. I'd give a tearful apology for $30M... but who would listen.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/09/06/antonio-brown-attends-raiders-team-meeting-gives-emotional-apology/
Sandy,
I do think it is an expectation when you bring a guy like that into the organization, and the organization knows the risk. But, as the organization, there are certain guidelines to handle this correctly, and when it comes to the terminology of AB's contract, the Raiders are following that terminology in case they need to retain the $30 million guaranteed. So, yes, it may seem petty and incorrect, but Mayock is following his legal advice within the team (Mark Bordain), and taking the necessary steps to preserve the organization. Whether or not his letter was petty isn't the issue, the letter is part of the process to remind Brown the expectations he has, set by the organization. It didn't mean the Raiders were going to fine him, it was worded in a way that the Raiders COULD fine him, and he needed to be careful. It was a shot across the bow, that AB took as a direct hit.
Again, it was done to take the necessary steps of the Raiders, as an organization, to keep $30 million if the worst came to worst, and based on AB's reaction, it is at that point.
The rumor I saw on Twitter that AB took a swing at Mayock came from Jimmy Durkin's Twitter page. He has since removed it, I wish I would have screen shot it.
Mariucci said it best yesterday on NFL Network, that the Raiders, as an organization is handling this correct, and doing it better than he did with TO when he was with the 9ers. Mooch said that he felt as a HC it was up to him to gain control of the locker room and suspend TO, but doing so ruined his relationship with TO. AB can be upset at the organization, but still have a working relationship with Gruden if this is resolved.
I think Mayock's "all-in or all-out" speech was directed at AB in a way, but at the time he said it, it was also concerning the dude they cut for not going to the trainer because of his "ankles". Mayock is a no-nonsense kinda guy, which is why he and Gruden get along. Gruden is the same way, but his job as HC is different than if he was GM, but make no mistake, the HC and GM in this situation is on the same page. Go look at Gruden's face when trying to avoid talking about it, you can see the frustration with AB all over his face. When Mayock spoke, you can tell he was hot too. Now Jerry MacDonald is reporting that AB called Mayock a Cracker and other racial slurs. Not a good thing for AB, and the more that comes to light, the more he may not be playing for the Raiders. I think the Raiders are trying to keep the lid on it, and keep it in house, but it is about to explode.
I hate to say it, but: Cut him, save the $30 million, and move on.
He's clearly unstable. Do you think the drama is going to stop, even if the apology is accepted and he plays Monday night? He was unhappy on a perennial contender with world-class talent. And now he's going to suddenly find peace on the Raiders after this kind of start with the team?
For a rebuilding team that is preaching "character," this entire self-inflicted soap opera needs to end. He's not taking them deep into the playoffs this year. He's not a long-term solution or linchpin for this team. He's costly. He's highly unpredictable.
The Raiders blew it by going after him, they need to own it and move on. And most important, they need to start sticking to a discernible plan.
Nate,
Your post is very wise. I think you hit the nail on the head. They have a legal and financial duty to handle it in this way. Being Machiavellian they have the $$$ leverage.
Given his apology and if he plays Monday, plays well and they win it will be looked at as a turning point.
NY, the Raiders are so desperate to win it is worth the nonsense.
Sandy
Take,
I agree with you on this. I don't think the drama is going to stop, and am not sure the Raiders are going to be happy in the long-term with him. The only difference is now they stand to be $30 million short in the salary cap to replace him.
I want a WR like Hopkins or Fitzgerald. Dudes who are, I believe, to be the best WRs in the League right now, but aren't making noise and drawing attention to themselves. Imagine having Williams, Renfrow, and Hopkins right now? Hopkins has nobody opposite of him, consistently fights through double teams, and still makes big plays. Imagine if he had talent around him like the Raiders WR corp right now? I threw up in my mouth just thinking about it!
All of this to say I think AB can bring the same kind of sickness to the Raiders with his talent; but put the drama aside, there is no need for it. This is the fundamental difference I see with the Raiders, and their preaching of "character". If they were really focused on the latter, they'd pursue more players like Hopkins and Fitzgerald, and shy away from the likes of AB, Burfict, Incognito.
On the other hand, Phil Villapiano said it best to JT the Brick, “JT the Raiders are easiest team in the history of sports to get along with. We had SNAKE, TOOZ, LYLE. We had all the Renegades and Mavericks but we ALL put the team first”. Enough said!
RT makes sense, and that's why I wouldn't have traded for Brown in the first place. Cutting him and saving $30M as well as further aggravation is hard to argue.
If the Raiders are building for the future, cut Brown and sign Doss off the Jags practice squad. Not too sexy but isn't that what teams do when they're building a roster?
Yet, I'm also intrigued by something Sandy said, that Brown could be worth three wins all by himself.
He's an intense person. He wants to achieve at the highest level, so it's difficult for me to agree that the Raiders should cut him... if for no other reason than because I am being a selfish Raiders fan.
I agree he's probably not a long-term answer, and may not be with the Raiders when they finally get it together. But the idea of watching him play for the Raiders and impact the team immediately is too good to pass up.
So let the "games" begin.
Looks like ab is back for Monday night. I guess the only downside of all of this is that hard knocks wrapped up the final episode before this happened. It would have made great TV.
RT, obviously ab is not a long-term solution. I think that's okay though. All this stuff about character Etc in this day and age in Pro Sports doesn't matter anymore. It's about Talent. Yes guy should be behaving as professionals that would be ideal. But here's something for everyone on the blog to think about. What Antonio has done the last month is nowhere near as bad as what Anthony Davis did to the pelicans.
Sandy
Brown asked Raiders for release and they accommodated. What a complete waste. Brown needs therapy. He may not find work after this debacle.
Note to Raiders: Please don't trade another 3rd round pick to the Steelers!
Raiders had to know this would happen after voiding Brown's guarantees. Raiders are equally stupid in this matter. Brown was set to play for them but they pressed the fines, thereby, voiding the guarantees and creating a week-to-week paycheck scenario for the best WR in the league. That's absurd.
Gruden is recorded asking Brown if he wants to be a Raider? Brown responds with "do the Raiders want me?"
Turns out, they both lied.
Looks like the Raiders actually pushed this button wanting a reaction.
So friggin depressed. AB seems without any self control. He just could nto help himself and blew 30 mm. I am sure someone would be willing to sign him but I can't believe anyone would give him any significant guarantees. The thought of JJ Nelson or Ryan Grant starting opposite Tyrell Williams is scary. All of a sudden the WR room looks mediocre at best. Bring back Doss?
Sandy
New take is up.
Post a Comment
<< Home