Thursday, October 19, 2017

Chiefs Gamenight Thread: Do or Die Edition

I cannot believe that we are reaching the point of a must-win game by week seven, but here we are...

First off, apologies for not posting a gameday thread last time. Was dealing with some family matters related to the wildfires. Everyone on my end is safe and sound, but the devastation is staggering. Prayers for everyone who lost loved ones and / or property. 

Anyhow, we have a new "Ghost" in Raiderland, and his name is not Casper, but rather Cooper. Click here for a rundown on how bad it has suddenly gotten for our alleged star receiver.

Our playoff hopes likely hanging in the balance tonight. Everyone needs to step up, and that includes the Ghost. GO RAIDERS! 


Blogger nyraider said...

Drops aside, Cooper is another victim of Downing's offense, which is pretty offensive. Targets are down, and nobody on the Raiders is throwing deep. For all the hype and the talent on offense, something has to give. Is Downing too stubborn to make changes? If so, he is hellbent on failure.

IMO, this Raiders team is a shell of its former self. Worse, Andy Reid has owned the Raiders, and there's nothing we've seen so far that will change that tonight.

At this point, the Raiders, as a team, has to play above its coaching and pull one out of its collective ass. Not much of a football analysis to say tonight's game rides on a wing and a prayer.

RT, glad to hear you and yours are safe. Prayers go out to the west coast and all the victims of wildfires.

5:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Good to see the offense back, though the running game still leaves a lot to be desired. Hopefully Carr and Coop are back for good.

Glaring lack of speed for the raiders in the secondary, I thought Bowman played well.

That win makes my weekend.

Most importantly RT, glad to hear you are alright and hopefully you and your family do not have a ton of damage and clean-up. I live in Florida so I know all about devastation from natural disasters. Fires seem truly scary as it would appear you have very little time to evacuate.

I hope you have a good weekend

All the best

10:28 PM  
Anonymous Raider00 said...

The offense, while not great, played a lot better tonight. Can't argue with a game/season saving last second TD. Albeit aided by 2 KC penalties. Raiders don't usually get those kind of breaks.

The defense was awful all night. Although they did make the stop at the end to get Carr the ball back for game winning drive. I think it was crazy to believe the Raiders could win a championship with this flawed, unimpressive defense.

The kicking game, very shaky, needs Jano back fast.

Raiders pulled season out of dumpster for now. But hard to see them putting together a winning streak playing/coaching like this rest of way.

Glad all is well RT.

10:44 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...


Still not sure what I witnessed, but it was a much needed win! In baseball ease, Carr would be called a stopper in your starting rotation.

Raiders clearly opened it up last night. But before we get too warm and fuzzy, there were alarming mistakes.

On at least two occasions, it looked like two WRs were in the same pattern. One play near the GL Seth Roberts had a chance for a big catch and another WR (Patterson?) broke it up. Are you friggin' kidding me? That can't happen in pro FB... right? Not even in HS FB.

On 3rd and 10 or 11, Downing actually called a QB run. Did he just arrive on this planet, or did he forget Carr healing from multiple fractures in his back? Not that it was a good call in any circumstance. Of course, Carr took a big hit.

Which leads to the next stupidity. I get wanting to stand up for your QB, but how dumb do you need to be to come off the bench to do it? Can we rate that a "10"? Honestly, the Raiders offense never missed a beat after Lynch left the game. If anything, they spread the ball out more.

In the end, it was Carr's raw determination that won that game (which is how the Raiders roll).

Bowman was solid. He missed a key tackle, got burned once or twice in TE coverage, and may have been out of position, or this or that. But on three days notice, he outplayed everyone else the Raiders have marched out there this year, and maybe longer.

On many passing downs, Bowman appeared to take the role of spy on the QB, and that helped contain Smith from running, which he is extremely dangerous. He blitzed a couple times and was involved in some key stops... at least one tackle behind the line.

My last thought: Does Mack have an extra gear with games on the line? I'll answer that: Yes!

Enjoy the win my friends! You deserve it for all the stress it caused you!

4:44 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

First, glad that you and your family are safe from the fires. I know 4 families in Santa Rosa who lost everything. One of them said, "Cops told us to leave right away without grabbing items, we packed in the car and before we got out of the block, we saw our house burning down." It spread so fast, it was scary.
What a frickin' game! My fingers are sore from biting them the whole game. Raiders O-Line magically went back to power blocking, and gave better protection. Huh! Who knew?
Lynch, according to multiple sources (including Penn) went out to separate his cousin Marcus Peters from the play and get him back to the sideline. He didn't mean to shove an official, but I'm glad he was ejected. I hope he gets suspended by the League for it. No excuses, he lost his head in a moment where you can't lose it. There were initial reports he left the stadium too, but Pro Football Talk has a link to a twitter account of him sitting in the stands watching the rest of the game.
The Chiefs are complaining about "missed penalties" against the Raiders. How about 4 missed holding calls on Mack (that I saw)? Officiating was horrible for both teams. The reversal of Jared Cook's TD was bogus too, he was never touched until he rolled into the end zone, and yet they marked him down? I thought, "That's it, the refs took the win from us just like the Tuck Rule." And then Peters slipped and grabbed Crabtree, and they called Crabtree for OPI? Glad they got the two defensive holding calls right.
NY the other WR who broke up Seth Roberts pass was Johnnie Holton, not Patterson. Washington had some explosive runs, and one tough TD run where he broke 3 tackles to get it. Tremendous game by Washington! I thought he was underrated last night, even though he had a dropped pass in the open field.
I hope this "W" rights the ship again. So excited this morning. JUST WIN, BABY!

7:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My question is who is going to have a better weekend now?


All the best Sandy

11:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Sorry to correct you but in the post game interview Carr said it was him who audibled to that qb draw ridiculous call. Don't worry I wont be defending Downing otherwise


12:32 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Sandy, I'm actually glad to hear that. That play call was stupid, but if it's by Carr at least we know it's from the heart and his determination to do whatever it takes.

Nate, I agree the officiating was horrible. Raiders WRs were getting mugged without any calls, and there was a steady diet of holding. That said, I think they made the correct call on spotting the ball after Cook's catch. He never made a move on his own and fell after contact with a Chief. The end of the game was insane x 10.

Raiders always wear black at home. I known they had throwback uniforms, but I thought it was brilliant (by design or by accident) that the Raiders had the Chiefs wear their bright red colors. That had to be so much easier for Carr to see defenders. Those uniforms are ridiculous!

3:25 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Saints are releasing CB Sterling Moore, because he doesn't fit Dennis Allen's mold. Raiders should jump on signing him.

8:58 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Moore started as a Raider, picked off our practice squad by Pats. He's now a vet.

3:47 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

PFT headline:

"Kaepernick reportedly will join owners, players in next round of talks"

Anyone else see how foolish this has become? This guy is now a spokesman for what has failed the NFL.

5:14 PM  
Blogger TheFreakingPope said...

Our OC must go. #raiders

12:41 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

I agree Pope.
Todd Downing = Knapp
Horrible play calling, going back to ZBS crap instead of Power Blocking (a proven remedy for this offensive line). Not aggressive at any point of this offensive attack today (or lack thereof). The more aggressive wins in this league, send this guy back to Division II.

2:30 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

What a disaster. If there is one thing I could point to, which there are many, it's the OC, like the pope said. Todd Downing is way over his head. Why did the Raiders replace a vet OC with a rookie OC when they seemed to be so close.

Downing is outside his mind. Why, down by 3 TDs late in the game, are we throwing 2-3 outs? That's insane! Throw the ball down the field.

And down 2 TDs, licking off from mid-field (after a 15-yard penalty on the Bills) with only minutes remaining, we kick through the end-zone instead of an on-side kick... or even a squib kick to pin them back. Bills burned us all day with squib kicks. We never tried it once.

So many other issues. Really frustrating.

2:47 PM  
Anonymous Raider00 said...

Maybe the Raiders are protesting against success. Some kneel down before game. Raiders bow down during game.

Oh well, time to break out my old 1970's/80's dvds of REAL RAIDERS !!!!!!!!!!!

5:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Worst coaching staff in the nfl.

Del Rio has NO leadership skills.

Downing and Norton have NO coaching skills.

Carr is NOT worth the $125 mil he's being paid.

Defense doesn't put any pressure on the qb.

What a waste of 2017 season.


8:49 PM  
Blogger TheFreakingPope said...

When we go no huddle, we see movement. We pause and let Downing send in a play...wheels come off.

I still think Jack is the right guy at the top. He fixed the culture. That said, Reggie needs to evaluate the staff. At this point, I'd rather take risks on staff (and players) than watch another performance like that one.

9:45 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

I said it at the beginning of the offseason when we didn't renew Musgrave's contract and promoted Downing. I thought if we were going to let go of a vet OC, we need to replace him with a proven OC who was better, like Mike McCoy, who was fired by San Diego/LA Chargers last season. Imagine if McCoy was our OC right now, we'd be undefeated.

10:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Downing called two running plays the entire second half, that is messed up. The offense is more of a problem this year than the D. Now who would have said that at the beginning of the year.


12:03 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Last year, the Raiders were among league's leaders in explosive offensive plays 20+ yards. This year they are (or were) the league's worst. In large part, it's because WRs like Cooper regularly line up near the LOS for an out pass.

Under Downing, the Raiders are running a much more conservative offense, incorporating ZBS which has failed the Raiders so many times before.

Downing keeps telling us they are so close, but then he spins out the same BS plays, or worse (2 WRs in the same pattern comes to mind). It's frustrating to watch. At some point, this has to fall back on Del Rio, and McKenzie if he was involved in the decision to let Musgrave walk.

Downing has reduced Carr from would-be MVP to could-be any other QB in the league.

Now the margin for error is almost gone. Every game is must-win.

3:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think this article sums it up well with good stats to back it up. My take-away its the coaching which includes Del Rio


4:49 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Thanks, Sandy. That sums it up better than I've read anywhere else, and speaks to what we've all been seeing but perhaps couldn't articulate with stats. Primarily, the Raiders no longer throw downfield. And the playaction deficiency is revealing. I think part of that is the Raiders new ZBS, which doesn't lend as well. Other teams, including KC and Alex Smith, are so much better at PA.

I don't anticipate things will change. We are being told by Downing that the Raiders offense is "so close". Del Rio needs to step in and make a change before we end up with another top 5 draft pick.

4:19 AM  
Anonymous Raider00 said...

It's not just replacing Musgrave. The idea that a 33 yr old Lynch was going to come in and improve the running attack was flawed thinking. Raiders need young legs, not old, running the ball. Now rushing attack is worst than last year.

And Norton as DC has simply not improved. Raiders have the same D that was shredded by mediocre QB in Texans playoff loss. Buffalo has a mediocre QB. He was 20-27 against soft Raiders D. And McCoy exploded in 2nd half. Raiders D had no answers. Alex Smith picked them apart also. Can't cover TE's or backs in passing game. Same as last year. Just awful to watch again.

You would think between JDR & Norton, someone would know something about defense, but no, no one knows. Soft, weak, unprepared crap D week in week out. Tired of watching it.

6:17 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Great article Sandy.
Kurt Warner also mentioned that the Raiders pre-snap offense is vanilla, and it helps the defense figure out what they are going to run. Minimal pre-snap motion, no play-action passing, no O-Line adjustments. Doesn't give DC much to work from. He said even when they do have pre-snap motion, you know what the motion guy is going to do, and what the play is, so you may as well not have it.
I disagreed though with how the article broke down to man-to-man cover guys being utilized to play "Zone" coverage. Raiders secondary has played little zone. Sean Smith has been burned badly playing man-to-man. They usually play zone on short yardage.
I thought we were past these losing seasons. I guess we can't break away from stupid.

1:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Glad you gentlemen enjoyed the article, I have been somewhat mystified as to why the Raiders are so bad this year, the stats on how long Carr is holding the ball and lack of play action seem to tell the story.

That being said my questions for the group is two part.

1. If it is coaching per the article, how many losses till Del Rio gets shown the door or do you give him another year no matter what? Downing we can all agree is gone barring a miracle playoff run

2. Is it all coaching or is something wrong with Carr this year i.e injury?

The good news in my opinion, perhaps when we get Luani, Joseph, Obi and Conley all on the field at the same time we will have some speed on the back end. That and another edge rusher to compliment Mack and this D can be solid if not spectacular.

As mentioned to you guys previously I live in Miami/Ft. Lauderdale but will not be attending the game for a variety of reasons.


3:29 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

00 -

I agree, and have always lobbied for young RBs. Fresh legs are better than old tired ones. The Broncos used to spin out young, no-name RBs year after year... and it worked for them!

Wrt to the vanilla offense, seems like every game the analyst mentions this. But maybe none have been more critical than Tony Romo. Romo was good at calling plays before they happened. He was very critical by the Raiders sending two WRs into the same pattern, calling them blown plays. But if you listen to Downing, he makes it sound like that was by design. Really? Your WRs fighting each other for the ball is by design?

Sandy, the better question is "when will this shit-show end?" Wake up Downing! Wake up Del Rio!! This is not a good team. They have fallen below average. How is that acceptable to the coaches or the players?

The only time the offense is successful is when they open it up. The dink and dunk Downing show is every defenses dream.

5:50 PM  
Anonymous Raider00 said...

To me, the Raiders had 2 tasks this past off season. 1) Improve the running game. 2) improve the defense. They whiffed on both.

The running attack with Lynch is worse now than before. Sandy, your point about play action...No defense will bite on PA unless they respect the running attack. Once again running game is an after thought for Raiders. They try to hit a homerun on every hand off. But when it comes to tough running, between tackles. Hard nosed, grind it out, Banaszak, Hubbard, Van Eeghan, type running, Raiders are simply not mentally tough for this sort of ground game.

Raiders defense, forget it. Same as last year. If Mack makes a play, great. If not, theres not much help to be found. TE's & backs running free underneath all game long. For 4 quarters, there are no adjustments made.

Throw in the fact that Raiders offense is worse than last year, and yes, we are heading back to the top of the draft. As NYR points out, 2 receivers always within five feet of each other. What the hell is that? !!!! And by design no less !!!! I don't see any other teams in NFL doing this. I guess Downing is smarter than everybody else. JDR, Norton, & Downing are so smart, Raiders will have a top ten pick. Brilliant!!!!!!!

2:25 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Vanilla and Predictable = failure = Raiders.

Hey, Downing! When should we expect the adjustments?!

On defense, the Raiders are getting exactly what they put into it during the off-season. They neglected MLB, and mostly maintained status quo elsewhere... really, something less than that when you consider departure of players who were probably better than their replacements.

But the offense is particularly bad. This is a real test for Del Rio (and McKenzie) because a change needs to be made at coordinator. It's not a close call!

6:19 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

I agree Sandy, when we see Obi, Conley, Joseph, and Luani on the field at the same time, we will have a different secondary. I think with the talent we have on this team, to be 3-5 at this point in the season seems to be coaching (or lack thereof). I'm disappointed to see our team take 4 steps backwards on offense. We aren't as aggressive as we were last season, and it shows. You know, every since Lynch was dancing on the sidelines, this offense has struggled, and Lynch hasn't been the same. The biggest move/factor in the offseason was the OC. Lynch was to be the spark to the running game we were looking for. That would be true if Musgrave was still here with his power attack. I was worried a new OC would change things, and my fear has been proven. If I'm Reggie, I rid of Downing, get a real OC, and give Del Rio one year to prove it.

The defense is what we thought it would be, since (as NY mentioned) we didn't really address our needs of MLB (which we have now with Bowman). We didn't get stronger on the D-Line, we got younger, and have a group of guys still trying to find their way: Vanderdoes, Hester, Autry who has been practice squad the past few years, Edwards Jr, and Jelly. Mack and Irvin have been the foundation for this defense, but since they moved Irvin back to SLB, he hasn't been as effective as last year because they aren't rushing him. I think it is clear that Pagano will be DC next season.

7:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

00 good to see you back where were you when we are smiling at 2-0 lol. I don't blame Lynch I blame the scheme (not running power out of the I) and a general lack of commitment to the run. Lynch needs at least 15 carries per game. A good example is the SD game where he was dominating in the first half and then got like two carries in the second half.

The winning formula for the Raiders was what we saw in the Titan game, soften them up early with the run to get some play action going and then close out with Lynch and the o-line beating people down. That keeps the D off the field.

I actually think the D has improved and the talent is better but they have been on the field way too much and often playing from behind.

For me its the coaches fault and something is wrong with Carr perhaps injury maybe confidence etc. Downing must go, Del Rio I tend to agree with Nate one more year. However in the back of my mind I saw him as mediocre in Jacksonville. He is not a tactician and has not show the ability to make adjustments this year to counter what other teams are doing against the Raiders

Have a good night

5:11 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Nate, I don't assume any changes. From McKenzie right down the line, these guys have been given incredible latitude to figure things out. The only significant change the Raiders made was Musgrave at OC, after he put up big numbers.

By itself, it's not the change at OC that hurt us. It's the choice... leading to the Raiders' inability to make necessary adjustments and field a professional offense.

5:22 PM  
Anonymous Raider00 said...

Sandy, yes, I had a cautious smile at It's a long season.

Seems Raiders have weakened their areas of strength from a year ago, and ignored their areas of weakness. It is showing on the field. You can't stand still in the NFL. One winning season in 13 years, Raiders patted themselves on the back, and relaxed. Not what successful franchises do.

2:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I asked you guys this previously, do any of you follow this prick Dieter Kurtenbach he is extremely negative. I just listed to his podcast and he called Derek Carr a chicken shit soft qb who has his head up his ass.

I would like to see Mack slap him in the locker room.

This guy is negative just to be negative and try and get his articles noticed.

Go Raiders

2:02 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Sandy, Mack is too nice. DK would have to suit up and be on the field for Mack to hit him.

Matt Millen is your guy!

2:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


LOL maybe the Raiders could use a Matt Millen type in the locker room. Seriously though as a reporter this guy has no future how can you show your face in the locker room ever after calling Carr a chicken shit. The man is playing with a broken bone in his back.


5:26 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Indeed. With misguided editorial, he can kiss goodbye his future as a reporter. Would be interesting to follow this guy because he'll be kissing Derek Carr's ass soon.

6:06 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Raiders broke, and now hold, a pitiful NFL record. They are the only NFL team in history to not have an INT after eight games. That's even more bizarre when you consider the Raiders have played more zone D this year, allowing defenders to better see the QB.

Here's another stat that's tough to wrap any sense around. Opposing QBs have a 108.2 passer rating against the Raiders in 2017. That's worst in the league. The same rating last year was 89.8.

Perhaps the only stat the Raiders improved in 2017 is, penalties per game... which is down.

Are the Raiders still a bad team that relies entirely on its QB to win games (as last year's playoff loss implies), or is it just bad coaching. Certainly, it could be both because we know Carr is being stymied by a vanilla offense that lacks game planning and adjustments.

Today's game - and virtually every game that follows in the regular season - is must win. Otherwise, the Raiders playoff run is in jeopardy of ending at ONE!

Good luck!

10:17 AM  
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