Sunday, October 16, 2016

Chiefs Gameday Thread

Well the Raiders have fallen behind in the second quarter, time to slog through the mud, stiffen up on defense and take it to the Chiefs. Go Raiders!

22 Comments:

Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Raiders coming out flat today. A lot of dropped passes, not attacking an injured Peters, and not able to stop the Chefs offensively. Needed to come out and play today to have first place to ourselves, and so far, showing we don't deserve it.

3:11 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I'd say this was an eye opening game, but the defense played just as it has all year. JDR may need to take over play calling before it's too late. Carr was terrible but so was his protection most of the day. Ugly game!

4:23 PM  
Anonymous Raider00 said...


If Raiders can't play good D, or run the ball, they have no chance in playoffs.

Sooner or later, you have to play in bad weather. On road in NE, Den., Buff., Pitts.,ect. have to run the ball well, and have a tough D.

Right now, Raiders don't have either.

5:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey RT,
Given the significance of that game on many fronts... dare I say it warrants pulling the unthinkable out of the garage?

like last year against KC, I made the trek and sat in the rain watching us look flat, listless, underprepared, and outcoached.

Defensively we looked like your clown car definition... "a high wire trapeze act... Running around... hitting nothing"

Thought we had rid ourselves of the curse of the clown... apparently not.

The5er

5:01 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I was kinda thinking the same thing. It was a clown performance.

One of the most annoying things for me was to watch the Raiders play deep coverage and just give KC short passes, which is their bread and butter.

3:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The offense will be fine. I think the lack of running game is more of a coaching issue than talent. They need to commit more consistently to the run. That being said while Penn is above average on pass pro he is below avg on run blocking. This is where Veldheer is missed.

Carr and the passing game is getting close to elite.

The defense is a mess. There are serious problems against the pass which is not just the dbs, the pass rush is anemic. Maybe getting Edwards and Smith back will help Mack. MLB and DT continues to be a real problem.

Coming into this game I was saying if they win against KC its okay to start thinking playoffs. However with this defense it seems perhaps a year away. This years defensive free agent signings and draft (Ward) are not making an impact with the exception of Irvin and sometimes Nelson.

Regards
Sandy


5:43 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

So here is a serious question regarding defense. Is it time for Norton Jr to go? I think a lot of our issues defensively may be too many new players, but this isn't rocket science either. Look how Amerson came in last season and what he has done. Sean Smith, Reggie Nelson, and our linebackers seem out of place and lost. Almost like they are not playing to their skill and talent.

I liked the Norton Jr hire at DC, I thought it was time for him to get out of the shadow of Pete Carroll; but the bottom line, he needs help. If they are not going to get rid of him, then Del Rio needs to be more involved in the defensive game plan.

I think if Del Rio and Norton asked their players what their strengths are on defense, and let them play to their strengths, the defense could turn it around. Nelson is a heavy hitter, and when he was with Cincy, he was all over the field. Sean Smith played more zone in KC, and was able to see the field more. We have Nelson as a cover safety, and Smith playing more man. It's time to change that scenario.

Like was mentioned too, our pass rush is anemic. Mack is getting double/triple teamed every snap, and our D-Line is not making up for the pressure. Even with double/triple teams, Mack is still putting pressure on the QB. But what good is that if we are giving the QB the short field, and leaving the TE open? At some point, the Raiders have to start creating pressure. What was even more disappointing was they dropped Irvin and Mack into coverage a lot in the second half, instead of letting them pressure Smith, which put them in a position of weakness and not strength. Clown car indeed, but more for the coaching staff on defense.

7:27 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Looks like Sean Smith is playing zone, even when he's in man coverage. He sets up too far off the LOS and then struggles to cover his receiver on short routes and deep routes. DJ Hayden does the same thing, to a fault, but has more quickness and make-up speed than Smith.

I lay most of the blame for the KC loss on coaching. I would have pressed coverage more, as well as blitzed more. As played, the Raiders didn't disrupt the KC offensive rhythm at all, and appeared to make no adjustments in the 2nd half, on either side of the ball.

As for Norton, it's way too soon to pull any stops. Worst case, JDR gets more involved in play calling.

I was a fan of Heeney, but it looks like the Raiders placed way too much confidence in his ability to play MLB, and had no depth behind him. Add to that Edwards injury, inexperience of Ward, and uneven play of others on the D line, and it's been a disaster.

I'd play Mack at LB more. That's where he seems to do the most damage, and probably where the Raiders are weakest right now.

8:18 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

5er, it's tempting, but I'm going to exercise discretion. That was nothing like some of the Clown Car performances we've endured. We're already getting spoiled by competency. But after that game, I can say the key is in the ignition and the defense had better stop the trapeze act.

NY, thanks for your comments here and in the prior.

Nate, fair question. Probably too early, but JDR needs to help him figure it out.

Sandy, I agree on Carr & Co., even thought that was a rough outing, it's just so damn refreshing to finally see a leader under center.

10:02 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Raiders are worst in NFL on defense yards per game allowed (312). So it's no surprise they are also the worst with respect to plays allowed over 20 yards and plays over 40 yards. The D has only 8 sacks, which places them only 2 more than the league worst (6). They've given up a whopping 66.8% completion ratio, and rank league worst 8.9 yards per play.

Sure, stats can be meaningless but after six games, the Raiders defense is epic bad, statistically.

FYI, Jacksonville is ranked above-average in many defensive stats, and have only given up 218 yards per game, about 100 yards less than the Raiders per game (amazing!).

Nobody expected this....

4:37 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

That's true NY, nobody expected the defense to be this horrible at the beginning of the season. We were talking about our hopes that the offense would catch up to the defense. That has seemed to happen, but the defense has taken a step back. It is reminiscent of when the Raiders had the #1 rush defense, and the dead last pass defense. It is such an anomaly.

I agree Take that it is too early for Norton, but even when you hear him talk to the media, he seems a bit lost at how to fix this and make adjustments. I'm hoping Edwards and Aldon Smith come back for the Donco game, but I think Smith comes back after the bye week. I don't think he will be football ready this season though. LB, DT, and DE have to be a priority this offseason in the draft and free agency though.

Sandy, I will say that Gabe Jackson, Osemele, Vadal Alexander, and Hudson have been beasts at hitting the run blocks and squashing defenders though. It's too bad that Alexander is hurt, he has been the best at RT for us which was a breath of fresh air. With Penn possibly retiring at the end of this season, we may need a LT as well. I will say about our offense though, our WRs (Roberts, Crabtree, and Holmes) dropped a lot of 3rd down passes that killed us in the second half. Raiders have to be more consistent in catching the ball.

Bottom line, JUST WIN, BABY!

6:12 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Nate, next year Osemele can play LT, which puts Jackson back at his natural position (LG). Alexander (who I said in the off-season could be viable at RT this year) should start at RT and supplant any notion that Watson will (can) stay healthy and actually play for the Raiders.

With Hudson at C, Raiders really only need a solid RG... plus depth.

The obvious weaknesses are on defense. The Raiders way overshot their confidence in the front seven to start this season.... particularly at LB!

11:18 AM  
Anonymous Raider00 said...


"I think the lack of running game is more of a coaching issue than talent. They need to commit more consistently to the run"
*****************************************************************************************************************************************

Sandy, I agree. I'll even go a step further to say our poor defense, and lack of running attack go hand in hand.

Just look at Cowgals. Their D is nothing special, and they are winning with a rookie Qb. It is because they have one of the best running attacks in NFL.

Keeps pressure off the young Qb. Keeps the spotty D off the field.

Just look at KC game. KC won the time of possession going away. Raider offense not on field much. Sitting on sidelines, waiting.

When calendar turns to Nov./Dec. weather is going to get rough. Raiders will not win passing 40 times a game. Gotta run the ball in the bad weather. Even the rain in Oakland requires a solid, consistant, running attack.

Remember a game yrs ago vs Chefs ? In Oakland, rainy, muddy day. Tyrone Wheatley rips'em up on the ground. Raiders win something like 27-0.

GOTTA RUN THE BALL...it will help the D.

2:45 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

There are many reasons why KC won. Alex Smith is like 9-0 against the Raiders. Raiders know exactly what to expect from Smith, yet they still can't counter it. KC offense went thru the Raiders D like a hot knife goes thru butter.

Cowboys have one of the best O-lines in football. Raiders have solid pieces on O-line but they are still finding their way.

4:41 PM  
Anonymous Raider00 said...


NYRaider,....I hear ya, but still, you don't need the best 0-line to run the ball.

KC doesn't have the best 0-line, and they ran all over Raiders. Why didn't we do it to them ? Because, as Sandy alluded to, running attack is a mindset. It takes toughness, not skill, to run the ball. It takes commitment by coaches first, then players, to get down in the mud, blood, dirt, and run the ball.

Derek Carr is great. The passing game is great. But Raiders need balance to become a playoff/championship, team. If you don't believe me, just ask Dan Fouts.

6:18 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Safe to say the Raiders O-line was overrated coming into the season. IMO, there's been too much shuffling around. Part of that is because of Osemele moved Jackson to the other side, but also due to injuries.

But I agree; attitude is extremely important. There isn't much talent-wise that separates good teams. It often boils down to intangibles, like coaching, chemistry and, to use your word, mindset. To this point, pre-snap penalties have killed several nice runs (and drives). It's inexcusable, especially in home games.

After Sunday's beat down, the Raiders have to feel like they need to prove something this weekend. On the other hand, if they come out and get pushed around by Jacksonville, I think we'll have our answer.

6:58 AM  
Anonymous Raider00 said...


After 6 games, what the Raiders have established is that they have a highly skilled passing attack. They mix in some runs, but are not committed to a serious running attack.

The defense is Mack, and 10 other guys. They probably aren't as bad as they look at times. But they aren't very good either. The defense suffers from the style of offense the Raiders have. Raiders can score quickly in the air, but do not chew time off clock with a sustained ground attack. Therefore the D is on the field a lot, and all their weaknesses get exposed.

Now, the Raiders still could make the playoffs if they play enough teams weak against defending the pass. That plays to the Raiders strength.

But realistically, if Raiders have to play a playoff game on east coast, in January, in bad weather, what chance do they have. The high flying passing game won't cut it. A tough, bruising ground attack is not part of their identity. This is a terrible combo, that could doom the season.

8:19 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

I agree in part, Raider00. The Raiders need to define what kind of offense they want to be. A passing offense or a balanced offense? If we want a balanced offense, then yes, they need to establish the run. But, it appears they are trying to be a pass-heavy offense.

However, I disagree that we need a strong running game to win, especially in bad weather and on the East Coast. Tom Brady and the Pats do not have a balanced offense. They rarely run the ball, and do so sparingly.

The difference is the Pats do more dink-n-dunk passes to make up for not running the ball much. The Raiders passing game is go big or go home. If they are not going to commit to the run, then they need to help themselves from pass rush/blitzes by screens, short passes, etc.

I think they can win with a passing game on the East Coast, but they have to shoot for 4-7 yards/pass rather than 10-17 yards/pass. The problem though, is with the talent the Raiders have at RB, we don't really need to run our passing game like this. But, if we are going to go for the big passing game, then we need to establish our running attack. This is the area where our offense needs to identify what they are going to do. If we want to be pass heavy, then we need to establish our game plan like the Pats and do more 4-7 yard passes. If we want to "take what we want" on the passing game, then we need to establish a solid running attack.

We also have to consider how our defense is playing though too. So far, we have been playing to keep up, which requires more passing. Our game plan may call for more runs, but if our defense cannot stop our opponent, then that is going to change how the offense is called. Especially if we are playing from behind, or playing to keep pace; which has been the case through the first 6 games.

10:33 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

We always hear coaches say they take what defenses give them. KC was the best D the Raiders faced this year, and it showed. When Carr has success, it should open the door to play-action. Raiders sometimes gravitate to this strategy with a pass-first approach.

I hate that the Raiders still seem to telegraph plays on offense (and defense). A few nifty 4th down plays notwithstanding, the Raiders can't seem to get past being predictable, especially when it comes to running plays.

Unfortunately, Raiders hit a buzz saw last Sunday, as they were clearly unprepared to play a solid, better-coached Chiefs team. That's the harsh reality.

12:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

00 well said with a weak D they need the running game more than ever. I loved Tyrone he was a beast and in combo with Garner very effective.

I remember exactly the game you mentioned, I pasted a link below to it. Do you remember this one. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200001020kan.htm

That was the game that saw the Raiders turn the corner.

It's attitude, I believe Osemele can open holes like Robbins and Murray and Washington could be Wheat and Garner.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200212280rai.htm

All the best to all of you. Good weekend
Sandy

6:31 PM  
Anonymous Raider00 said...


Nate...You're correct about the Pats, and short passing substitute for run.

I would say though, in 2015 championship game, Legarette Blount went 30-148 yrds. That's a pretty big day on the ground. So when Pats want a running attack, they will find it.

Raiders never seem to game plan that way. To say, hey, we can run on this team, let's use the ground attack vs this opponent. They never matchup. It's always pass, pass, pass.

But overall, I agree with your points.

2:57 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Players on other teams used to joke that having the Raiders on their schedule was like having a second bye week. Right now, the only thing separating that sentiment from reality is Derek Carr and his receivers.

Because, on paper, the Raiders defense is epically bad. But we don't need stats. We witness it every week. QBs slice up the Raiders' secondary and RBs cut through their front seven like a hot knife through butter.

It's hard to imagine the focus in recent drafts and offseason moves has been on defense, starting with DJ Hayden, and culminating this year with a long list of free agents: Irving, Nelson and Smith, as well as bringing back Williams and others.

There are lots of excuses floating around: injuries; too many personnel changes; not enough time to jell; and, perhaps to a lesser extent, bad coaching.

In the end, it's up to JDR, a defensive-minded HC, and the players on the field to make this right. I'm not giving Norton a pass; just going over his head due to apparent incompetence.

Raider00 said, "The defense is Mack, and 10 other guys."

That's exactly right.

Only, it's time for those 10 other guys to step up and make a difference.

GO RAIDERS!

7:16 AM  

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