Sunday, September 20, 2009

Chiefs Game Thread

Despite some immature play in our passing game last week, I believe that coaching, more than anything else, let us down and cost us a victory.

The Chargers play the Ravens this week, and we missed a marvelous opportunity to possibly put them in an 0-2 hole while positioning ourselves for early command of the division.

On Monday, our coaches abandoned two things that were clearly working for us: an aggressive defensive scheme and a rowdy rushing attack.

Our running backs rushed the ball 21 times in the first half for an average of 4.9 yards per carry. Yet in the second half, we gave our running backs just eight carries while JaMarcus Russell was tossing fluttering pigeons all over the field.

I don't need to mention what happened to our defense. All I'll say is that we inexplicably went soft on the final drive with predictable results.

Today, we just need to turn up the heat, and keep it up. Run the ball. If it doesn't yield big results early on, keep at it. If we give Bush and McFadden time and opportunity, they are bound to reward us.

As for the defense, they don't need to do anything different except not get cute at the end of a close game.

Oh, yeah, one other thing. The joint is going to be loud. Watch the false starts and stupid penalties. They always seem to happen at Arrowhead. But not today, right?

Last Monday was a beacon of hope. Now it's time to light the bonfire.

RAIII-DERRRS!
RAIII-DERRRS! RAIII-DERRRS!

201 Comments:

Blogger nyraider said...

GO RAIDERS!

9:12 AM  
Blogger Mr.Duva32 said...

Not liking what I see from JaMarcus...come on man! Wide open rec's and still can't move the ball. Why is Cable not running the ball down their throat's?

10:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Moshbucket's halftime take:

First game I haven't watched in about 10 years. I'm having serious DT's.

Reviewed 1st half playbyplay.

Pass,run,pass, punt.
pass, run, pass, punt.
(so/so drive, punt)
run, pass, pass, punt
(weak drive, FG)

The only deicent drive had more running. WTF is up with trying to setup the run w/ the pass, when our passing game is the weakspot?

I think I jinxed us by playing Bush/Miller/Murphy on my fantasy team. BAD mistake putting in Murphy for Colston (who already has 100yds/2tds).

I couldn't find TOP listed in the boxscore I was looking at, but looks like it's probably heavy in the Chefs' favor. If we don't control the ball in the second half, we're done for.

-moshbucket

11:46 AM  
Blogger Toni said...

If the Raiders want to pass the ball, which is what they seem to want to do, they need to pull Miller from protection and get him out in the field, because he's the only one Russell seems to not throw a fluttering pigeon [tm] to.

I hate it when he throws the ball... hate it!

Anyway, stick with the run, throw to Miller just enough and let the Chiefs do more stupid like they did at the end of the first half.

Have to love Awesome-wa's [tm] tackle.

12:19 PM  
Blogger Toni said...

mosh - TOP was 19:04 Chiefs to 10:56 Raiders at the end of the first half.

12:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ug.
Well, from what I'm seeing in states mid of 4t qtr, our O-line is a giant piece of shit again this year.
-moshbucket

12:40 PM  
Blogger Mr.Duva32 said...

WTF.....Cable???


Horrilbe play calling the entire game. Shame on Cable and JaMarcus cannot move the ball well.

12:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

WOW! I can't believe we just did that, the game couldn't have been any better. Russel forced to drive the entire field down 4 with under 3 minutes. Unbelievable. Great defense, I don't know what else to say. Tip of the hat to Cable.

Roy

1:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

An ugly win... is still a win.

Game ball to Huff.

A few other thoughts...

is it my imagination or could I tackle McFadden (I'm a 120lb woman)? Seems like he goes down if someone gets just a finger on him.

maybe Cable should look at running a no huddle offense. Russel seems more accurate when he's in a rhythm.

much better STs. Just keep kicking then into the end zone, Seabass. Maybe J. Miller is still avail for returns? He did well last year.

Way to close the game, Raiders. Defense definitely won this one.

JF

1:25 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

Check out the end of the Packers/Bengals game. Packers TE catches the ball and is tackled, ball squirts out but its ruled a catch with no booth review with 14 seconds left. Looked to me like he had possession for less time than Murphy. Hmmmmmmm.

Glad for the win, but for Pete's sake, must Cable try to force the pass when its not working? We gain 5-6 yards rushing on 1st down and then squander it with back to back incompletions? Run, pass, pass, punt. On the bright side it looks like Michael Huff finally gets it. Two picks in one game. Good going Huff.

1:32 PM  
Blogger H said...

Ok, the KC defensive strategy was twofold. Stop the run, they were really crowding the line. So we were trying some first down passing. Good strategy if your QB will hit the wide open receivers. The second part was to take Zach Miller away from the passing game. Mission accomplished. I kept screaming to throw to Miller but he was covered quite well. When he did get open Russell over threw.

The problem for KC was this ain’t SOB’s defense. True, we gave up 173 on the ground, but what do you expect when the opposition has the ball for nearly 40 minutes. I’m watching SOB’s current team now, I’ll have something to compare it with. So Far they look pretty poor.

We came up with five big plays on defense, three by Huff and two by Ellis. Huff may be reaching his stride finally. He played well last week too.

On D we did blitz, a couple of times Cassel scrambled, but twice, if memory serves, we got the tailback in the backfield.

RaiderRealist,

Huff also broke up the 4th down attempt at the end of the game.

Speaking of scratching your head on play calling. Second and one, game on the line and three straight pass plays? The Chef faithful will be screaming about that all week.

On officiating. I think we need to have a portable conference table to roll out to the fifty. What’s up with all the conferences. The late hit, could have gone either way, but I replayed Miller’s false start four times, and sorry I don’t see it. He did turn his head slightly to look at the ball, but that was the only movement I caught. Could be the beer (great batch), I don’t know.

So, we lost one we should have won, now we won one we should have lost. And, we weren’t playing prevent. Good pressure, tight coverage.

H

2:14 PM  
Blogger H said...

Also a comment on the annoucers.

Well on Solomon Wilcox anyway.

We had a penalty, it was the "undisciplined" narure of the Raiders. The Chefs had one it was "shooting themselves in the foot". Thus far this year we have 13 and our opponents have 18.

Also, he was saying that we needed to be careful with the ball on the last drive and make sure we at least get the field goal. Earth to Solomon, we were down by 4, with 1:40 left when you said that.

H

2:30 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I said this last week; Russell has poise. He doesn't look good at times (ok, most of the time), but he did not rattle. He won the game at the end with his arm.

He needs to stop telegraphing his passes, and learn to apply some touch on short passes. He's 6-7 and had 2-3 passes batted down... wtf?

The defense applied pressure to win the game... something had they done last week, we'd be 2-0.

Huff has found his niche as a nickel defender. (Game ball!)

Special teams were better and made the best of missing its two key return specialist... although a tense moment on the muff.

Recovering the onside kick was huge to keeping things under control. The Chiefs could have killed us with another score there.

Congrats to everyone. Ugly, but a win!

3:36 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

Just returned from the game.. ugly football from my eyes in the nose bleed seats.

If I were Cable I would try to run the entire offense from the shotgun... Jruss looks much more comfortable with the extra second.

Our receivers look lazy and make JRuss look worse than he really is.

We really need Schilens back.

FINALLY we benefit from giving up a long pass play.. if KC had just kept running it down our throats, the game would have been decided with a last second 4th and 1 score IMO. Maybe someone on our defensive staff will take notice... giving up a quick score is not always a bad thing. BLITZ!!!

I agree with JF... McF falls down with the slightest touch.

Hat tip to myself that no one will ever believe... I said to my buddy right before the score "SWEEP TO MCFADDEN." The fucker didn't even hear it... so I don't even have a backup. lol

9:25 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

Ohh... one other thing... the attendance at KC gets worse every year I go. It was a gorgeous day for football and the stadium was half empty. Talk about fair weather fans...

They don't even have enough fans to bother the QB calls anymore... it used to be deafening in there.

Sad.

9:29 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

An ugly win has never looked so beautiful in my eyes. The combo of 'Superior Special Teams + good D + key takeaways + 1 money drive = a BIG FAT W!

I've got to hand it to Russell. The guy has played proably his 2 worst games in his early career but the guy has stones with the game on the line.

We need to get the running game on track to give Russell a better chance of finding consistency in the passing game.

10:04 PM  
Anonymous Arkansan Raider said...

H, I about blew a gasket when the announcer said that about going for the field goal. I was screaming at the t.v. for reals.

And I think that we win big if we can somehow convince JR that the entire game is a two-minute drill.

JMHSO

---Jeff

11:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Be proud faidas, that was your best! "j-bustus" is the best qb the faidas have had since "ol' tod margeezervitch" was throwing for big al, The CHEIFS lost the game....the faidas didn't win it. What a laugh, Just enjoy baby.

11:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

no take Take????

12:56 AM  
Blogger H said...

Arkansas,

I watched the last drive again allowing a little time for the beer to wear off, and I owe Solomon Wilcox an appology.

There was 1:47 on the game clock when he said that. You see, I didn't take into account that extra seven seconds. Silly me.

Also, Miller did false start. He flinched ever so slightly when the safety came charging up at him.

I hope Cable watched the end of the Dolts game. Fourth and two, ball on the 15, 37 seconds left, Ray Lewis straight up the middle on a blitz. Sproles tackeled for at two yard loss, game over.

H

4:52 AM  
Blogger H said...

Quick comment:

Galley out 4-6 weeks. Left side of the line through 2 games.

Penalties - 0
Sacks - 0

McFadden's TD was around the left side.

Get back quick big guy.


H

5:47 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Going back and forth a little with some office folks about how bad is JaMarcus Russell. One commented his QB rating after two games matches his jersey number.

It's a tough call. Never have I seen a QB miss so badly yet muster the kind of poise needed to march down the field when the game was on the line (two weeks in a row). He's 2-2 on potential game-winning drives this year.

Truly some mixed feelings. I hope the early season rust is not a product of his so-called bad work ethic. Time to put in some extra reps, JaMarcus.

9:25 AM  
Blogger H said...

“What does all that tell you? It tells me they are historically inept in almost every way possible… but I’m still mindlessly clinging to hope that they will put some things together and win 4-5 games this season.”

Quote from an article referencing the Chefs (Kansas City Star).

If you are going to have a good season, you have to have a game or two along the way where the offense stinks and the defense carries the day. That happened Sunday. Now, the offense has to step up.

Murphy is turning into the real deal. DHB needs to physical up. He’s not going to out run everybody. Pull in a few short ones then let it fly.

Nnamdi is the best for a reason. Not just cover skills, but intelligence and strength. He did not allow the Chef receiver to get out of bounds at the end of the first half. Huff gave him credit for his improved play by calling in all the DB’s for extra film sessions. Real leadership.

Jano kicked off 4 times with 4 touchbacks. Keep it up.

SOB’s run defense gave up 186 rushing (average of 205 through two games).

NYRaider,

I actually have a theory. Is Russell getting too pumped up early in the game? He seems to be overpowering some throws early. Also, the longer he stands in the pocket the further the overthrow. The one to Watkins for first down was fake, turn, set and throw. No looking around.

Also, maybe they should have his eyes checked. With all the overthrows it could be a depth perception thing.

Just pondering.

H

9:39 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Hey, folks, (and H will back me up on this one) Welcome to Raider Football. I haven't really seen it in six years.

The Raiders were practically founded on the notion - "we don't care about statistics. The score at the end of 60 minutes of play is all that matters." That philosophy is foundation of "Pride and Poise!"

Throughout their history the Raiders have felt that if we are within a touchdown with two minutes left on the clock, the game is ours. It is constant recurrences of those kinds of games that have led most of us to be Raider fans.

There is no doubt that Russell has to do better earlier in the game. But Cable had stones to keep him in there, and I don't think either of the backups would have had that success at the end. Russell led that drive with the most inexperience WR corps in football.

Russell is maturing, and beginning to prove that he is, in fact, a Raider.

9:43 AM  
Blogger Scot said...

RAIDER REALIST, you think the Packer catch / call was bad? Did you see Dante Rosarios TD call? The dude had the ball slipping out of his hands and fumbled as he hit the ground, but it was still a TD. I think the Raiders play by a different rulebook.

10:05 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

H--

"McFadden's TD was around the left side."

I think Gallery was already out of the game by the last drive.

But I agree, hopefully he'll be back by mid-season.

JF

10:22 AM  
Anonymous Derick from Section 344 said...

Look, there are ton of things to look at as negative regarding Jamarcus's performance on Sunday. I can't sit here and say I'm 100% certain he's going to become the player we want him to be.

But one thing I feel good about in terms of the guys development is that he already has the things you CAN'T teach (Cannon arm, increased focus under pressure, doesn't appear to get rattled, the ability to make the big throw when you need it the most) and the things he clearly needs work on are, for the most part, things you CAN teach (Accuracy, looking off receivers, ACCURACY) those are things you can work on and conceivably, through repetition and hard work, improve upon.

So in my opinion Jamarcus Russell is far from a lost cause. He has all the potential in the world. Will he live up to it? Well, I'll be in section 344 watching with the rest of you.

A Win is a Win

GO RAIDERS

10:34 AM  
Blogger H said...

JF,

Yep he was out on that play, but I think he was out there at the start of the drive. Still, no penalties, no sacks.

Derrick,

I'll be watching from section 30092.

Blanda,

Yeah, it used to be six minutes left, down by 10, we gotum right where we wantum. From Lamonica, to Snake and Plunkett. Even with Old George coming off the bench passing and kicking us to a win.

But, Russell still has a long way to go.

I think Kiffin is still in his head a bit. He has to get over the fear of the interception. One of the things that made Snake so good was he didn't care how many interceptions he threw. To paraphrase him, when you throw a pass four things can happen, three are bad. So you need to get over it.

Russell is so afraid of being intercepted he winds up throwing to no one, even when they are open. Theories, I got dozens.

Speaking of Lame Kiffin, Tennessee was down by 10 late and Kiffin kept up a very conservative play calling. He played to "not loose".

Even when I was giving him the benefit of the doubt that was a major complaint from me about his play calling.

H

10:40 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

Is there video's of the two TD's from last week where a ball squirts out after hitting the ground? I'd love to see them!

One thing I think the Raiders are doing a poor job with is taking advantage of his athleticism.. he is not going to be, nor may never be a traditional drop back passer. Keep him rolling out and using that arm on the run... what he stands there and tries to go through his progressions is where he gets into trouble.

Work with what you got... not what you hope he will turn into.

10:54 AM  
Blogger Scot said...

Here is the link to Rosarios TD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ5g8VdWVis

11:03 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

The deal with Russell seems to be that he's still thinking too much. And, you're right, I think Kiffin is still in his head, making him throw the ball too far away from receivers for them to make the reception while attempting to avoid interceptions. I think as this season moves forward, he'll mature a bit more, and display even more guts and confidence.

11:17 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Gary & Scot - Rosario NEVER controlled the ball. He didn't have control when it crossed the GL, and he completely lost it when his elbows hit the ground. Clearly, there's a double standard in officiating.

11:35 AM  
Blogger H said...

Gary and Scot,

While there are similarities, here's the rub.

At the time there was 6:65 or so remaining in the game. The Parakeets were still up 28-20 after the "catch".

At that time in the game it is up to the coach to challange the call. Smith did not choose to do so. He may have even used up all his challanges, not sure. Had it been earlier in the game, possibly he would have.

But, the decision to "review" Murphy's catch came down frrom on high in the last two minutes of the half. It was an official decision, a coach couldn't have asked even if he wanted to.

I think we need to move on, we're beating dead horses again. But, we do need to file it away in our evidence locker for future use. There's a reasonable possibility a catch similar will happen "against us".

H

11:52 AM  
Blogger H said...

Correction:

The time was 6:45 remaining (approximate).

H

11:53 AM  
Blogger H said...

NYRaider,

"Clearly, there's a double standard in officiating."

While I agree with the sentiment, the on field ruling initially was touchdown for Murph.

Like the old saying goes, timing is everything.

H

11:56 AM  
Blogger H said...

OK, I just did some quick research, and now withdraw my last two post.

Smith did, in fact, challange the call, and it was ruled a TD upon further review.

This was even more blatant and clear than Murph's.

H

12:03 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Wow! That play was reviewed and upheld?

I guess we should expect some variances in officiating due to individual game circumstances, viewing angles etc, but the two plays that we're comparing here seem indicative of a long-standing free-for-all against the Raiders in terms of rule book interpretations.

We (Murphy, the Raiders and the fans) got hosed last week, and the evidence just keeps piling on.

12:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry guys, but the Rosarios catch was not the same. He caught it and took three steps and dove at the endzone. Taking those steps gave him the reception. Murphy landed on both feet and straight into the ground.

Anyone who saw the game, was Jamarcus that bad, or was he under constant duress? I'd much rather see him have a hideous game and pull it out than the Line have a hideous game. We didn't run much, but I'm guessing they were putting 8 in the box alot.

He had been throwing alot of ducks for awhile now. Maybe trying to trottle back the cannon to get better touch on short balls is giviing him some trouble?

-moshbucket

12:56 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Mosh, I think part of the problem is Russell attempting to avoid interceptions, so he hasn't yet mastered putting the ball in a place where the receiver is between the ball and the defender. I think trust might be a little bit of an issue as well. He's established a trust with Miller and Schillens, and he's beginning to get it there with Murphy. Don't forget he's working with the most inexperienced WR corps in pro-football.

What bothers me is the poor dump-offs to the RBs. I still think he's thinking too much. But once he gets comfortable and trusts himself more, I think that will change.

1:12 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

"Sorry guys, but the Rosarios catch was not the same."

I agree. It wasn't a catch at all. It doesn't matter how many steps Rosario took, he never controlled the ball; he was juggling it the whole time. The big difference is that Murphy controlled the ball (tucked it under his arm), landed on both feet and then his ass before the ground caused the ball to shake free from his grip.

2:27 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

The Raiders have a few players competing for the league leads at their positions.

Jano has nailed every field goal, and for the combined longest distances.

Lechler also, with the highest net yard average and longest punt of the season (70 yards).

Huff is up there challenging for most interceptions.

Ellis is challenging for most sacks.

4:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was just replaying the Murphy catch a few times. He comes down on his forearms and knees holding the ball in one hand. When the ball arm and nose of ball hit the turf, the ball shifts in his hands.
The shift puts his grip on the nose of the ball, and a split second later it pops out of his hand.

The rule supposedly says if you loose control of the ball going to the ground, you have to gain control again before the ball touches the ground. When the ball shifts in his hand, that's loosing control. The split second he's able to hold onto the ball by the tip is not long enough to count as regaining control.

Maybe I just watch to much football, but I've seen this call many times. Most anouncers disgust me by thier lack of rules knowledge anyway.

-moshbucket

4:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i've been waiting for it. first game i thought wow, he played really well. 2nd game i thought wow, i'll be reading about him on RT's page. but nothing as of yet.

ok, i'll do it. nice game Micheal Huff. anyone wanna cut him still? where are all you guys?

comin into his own in his third year, sounds like Namdi. matter of fact i believe it was Namdi who called Huff for the breakout season this year. sometimes it takes a little patients, you have to deal with it so you can reap the rewards. Huff rewarded us yesterday with a pair of picks and several other nice plays. he was more responsible for the win than any other player on the roster with the exception of possibly our All World punter.

thank you Al, i bet alot of bashers out there are rethinking thier take on that pick!!! or at the very least hoping no one remembers the opinion they have been preachin'. give it up to him folks, he earned it!!

frkyraider

4:31 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

BR- those are notable, but unfortunately, I doubt anyone touches JRuss for the lowest QB rating, and our running game (the strength of our O) isn't lighting any fires.

I thought our D played well this week, but was shocked to see we gave up over 400 yards. That's not good enough in most games. In fact, I think we set some kind of record winning a game with that many yards against us... or was it so few yards for us? Either way, that can't continue.

4:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Unbelievable! Here's another one. Jacoby Jones TD catch against Tenn. Turns out, the Raiders are the only team in the league that can't get this call.

http://tinyurl.com/moo7b7

Go to "Jacoby makes the catch"

5:08 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

That was me, NYRaider, that posted the Jacoby Jones catch. Not sure why my ID didn't post with it.

5:11 PM  
Blogger x said...

Murphy's catch was way more legit than either Rosario's or Jones. Even a hater admits it: http://tinyurl.com/l8g3gv

Murphy didn't lose the ball going down, he lost it while he was getting up.

8:50 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

Hello from cancun everyone!

so blanda - we're blaming kiffin now for russell's inaccuaracy huh?

9:40 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

THANX FOR THE VIDS!!

Good gawd... if the Rosario "catch" was a TD and Murphy's wasn't there isn't a CLEAR problem with officiating in the NFL? I am not even going to insist that there is a bias vs the Raiders.. just complete incompetency at times.

What, they didn't realize the precedence was set on this issue the week before?

It should now be written in stone.

Pisses me off.

9:55 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Hope you are enjoying Cancun Scorpio.

Russell's inaccuracy has nothing to do with Kiffin.

The fact is that Russell completed 62.5% of his passes (95/152) in the last 7 games of the 2008 season with Cable as his head coach. I don't have the numbers but Russell was accurate in the preseason.

I can't quite put my finger on Russell's struggles. If I had to guess it is a combination of many factors; bad mechanics, not trusting his WRs to make a play; some less than precise routes run by WRs; no Shilens; Miller being double teamed; bad reads; not getting in a rhythm; the running game not being used to properly complement the passing game (playcalling).

The bottom line is that Russell has a fresh slate vs. Denver. He seems to have some very valuable personal traits that bodes well for a recovery and establishing some consistency.

#1: A short term memory of forgetting the last play, the last series, or the last game and moving on to the next play

#2: Poise in spades. The guy has an ability to remain calm and raise his game when the Raiders are counting on him the most.

10:20 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

One more potential factor why Russell is struggling; off-season training and work ethic. Ok, that's two, but they stem from the same discipline.

Inexperience of his WRs and bad route running doesn't explain why he can't throw a simple dump-off pass to a RB.

In addition to throwing into the ground several feet in front of his RB, there has been several times that Russell threw a rope into oncoming DL who batted the ball away. Those could have been completions had Russell applied the slightest touch on the ball to his RB.

Russell is 6'7". This should never happen.

At times, Russell seems to be missing the most basic mechanics of any pro QB, or college and HS QBs for that matter.

Maybe it’s time for Russell to take stock and learn his trade.

4:20 AM  
Blogger H said...

FrkyRaider,

Al has maintained that Huff was a Shell pick. And, while I have called for a little patience on Huff in the past, it’s only two games. I want to see if he is still playing at this level at the break. But, so far Kudos.

Ellis has made the shift back to DE quite nicely.

Ok, guys. Someone in the media is actually on our side. Of all things, it’s NBC Sports. See the following article:

http://tinyurl.com/l8g3gv

Moshbucket, read the above and their interpretation and quoting the rule. I know it was previously posted here but it is worth a second look.

NYRaider,

The defense’s effort was outstanding considering the offense’s inability to make a first down for three and a half quarters. I believe we got more first downs on that last drive than the entire game up to that point.

Also, “One more potential factor why Russell is struggling; off-season training and work ethic.”

How many times does Cable have to say Russell spent more time at the facility this offseason than the first two and is doing the things he wants him to do. This is a personality makeover it’s going to come about in increments. The dump off passes do concern me though. He’s throwing down hill for pete's sake.

H

6:43 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

H -

"How many times does Cable have to say Russell spent more time at the facility this offseason than the first two and is doing the things he wants him to do."

Didn't we hear Cable during pre-season repeatedly say or at least imply that Russell should be working harder, set an example and become a leader of this team?

The mere fact that Russell may have spent "more time at the facility" than in the past isn't synonymous with spending enough time.

Evidence to the contrary.

8:41 AM  
Blogger H said...

NYRaider,

No, it's evidence that the process is in motion. He is leading by example, but now it has to move from the practice field to the stadium field.

H

9:09 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Russell as it applies to Kiffin. Kiffin's big thing with Russell was doing everything to keep him from throwing picks and hurting the offense. The good: Russell is throwing very few picks. The bad: Russell is throwing very few completions. Russell seems to be attempting to keep the ball away from the defender, and often keeps the ball away from the receiver. I'm not blaming Kiffin, I just think that Kiffin is still in Russell's head, and he needs to trust himself more.

The other obvious factor which folks seem to be passing over is that he's dealing with two rookie WRs, and in the KC game, essentially three. Murphy is obviously the best rout runner of the three, so he's getting the receptions. He's where Russell expects him to be. The others are not. As for Miller, KC did everything they could do to make him a non-factor in the game, making Russell throw to the WRs.

But Murphy's coming along fairly quickly, and DHB is also but slower to learn.

Also, several balls were dropped.

What worries me about Russell is throwing to high or to low to running backs on dump offs.

9:46 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

H, so far you said it best...lost a game we should have won, and won a game we should have lost.

I put my 2 cents on the defense last week, so let me add a duece to the offense this week.
To start, the offensive line, overall, is not a liability. I like that the penalties are waaaayyy down after 2 games and so are sacks, for this unit. The oline is only as good as its weakest link, and right now that is Cornell Green. If Green can improve his game, then the oline is a strenght.
Bush and Mcfadden, right on. Some of the reason that we werent running rampant on kc has to go to Dorsey, and the rest of their dl.

Wr's. Walker may prove to be valuable to this team, but I dont see him playing up to his contract. Just dont. Shillens, get back soon, you surely are missed. Of the two rookies, Murphy is paying dividends(though he too can't hold on to some of jmacs cannons)while I just feel like dhb is destined to be a 3rd or 4th year payoff ala asomogha,huff, if that. I felt like higgins was a solid wr 2nd half of last year, but was quiet or underused before he got hurt. Like Shillens, get back soon Higgins.
Miller...could go to Hawaii as soon as this year.

Jamarcus Russell...ummm... I sure am not qualified....Seems to my eyes he is missing EASY passes. He is clutch so far the last five minutes of a game, and that my friends is an intangible you cannot teach, and just as hard to quantify. This jury is still out, after all, he is still, in his 3rd year, the third youngest qb in the NFL. Even Modern day Raider fans know what a good raider qb looks like(Gannon) so Jamarcus has a ways to go when it comes to fundamentals.

SCAR

Anyone want to delve into keys to victory come sunday?

10:22 AM  
Blogger H said...

Scar,

We are only a 1 ½ point favorite over the Geldings. But, I think it’s about time we started winning division games AT HOME.

It should be a sellout, so get loud Oakland-Alameda Coliseum (I like that name best of all). A loud crowd will help, that’s a big key in the game.

Complete passes to the WR’s (I know, well duh!). That opens things up for Zach Miller. He was doubled a lot last Sunday. So, get Zach going early and often.

Use Bush early to pound the defense. Then McFadden’s speed when they are tired.

McFadden needs to stop going down so easy. Too many times he was brought down by a single tackler. Make them earn it.

Don’t let Knowshon Marino get off to a good start. He tends to get better as the game goes on, but is easily frustrated.

Last but not least, score more points than the Geldings (sorry, after last Sunday, I couldn't help it).

H

12:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The rasareio play, he took a step then changed direction and dove at the endzone AFTER catching the ball and getting two feet down and BEFORE he went to the ground. I think the step gives him the reception and negates the going to the ground requirements. If it doesn't, then I don't see why it wasn't ruled incomplete.

On that jacoby play, he catches the ball and goes to the ground on his knee, then gets slung back into the air while showing clear posesion, and then looses the ball when he lands back on the turf.

I think the packers had a similiar play where the guy came down, bounced back up and lost it onthe second landing.

Murphy came down ontop of the ball which caused him to loose control and not show clear posession AFTER HE WENT TO THE GROUND.

The ball shifted in his hand when he landed, and immediately thereafter squirted out of his hand onto the ground.

The key is showing clear posession after you come down, and Murphy didn't do that.

I don't think Rich Eisen is a hater. I think he might be a closet Raider fan actually.
But fools like Salomon Wolcox sure don't mind spewing uneducated hate.

- moshbucket

1:45 PM  
Blogger Leighraider said...

I know what Toni means about not liking the sight of a Russell pass, its helpful to close your eyes as he drops back, except for that last drive - suddenely a couple of lasers, weird.
If the penny has finally dropped with Huff we have some secondary coming together with him and Aso,CJ holds his own and Branch seems solid.

2:32 PM  
Blogger H said...

Moshbucket,

You could also say that Murphy was down when his butt hit the ground and he was slung/pushed the rest of the way by the defender.

Point is three very similar plays, all three going to the ground, we don't get the TD the others do.

Here's a challenge for you. Find the rule where it says how long and how many steps and knees and elbows and butts it takes to be ruled legally down.

In the end it was a subjective inteperation of the rule, as Steve Young stated. And it went against us and for the other teams.

H

2:55 PM  
Blogger H said...

By the way. I'm not saying it was some conspiricy with black helicopters and all that. I'm just saying it was a bad call.

H

3:07 PM  
Blogger H said...

Moshbucket,

One more thing.

A quote from Cable:

“If you go to the replay booth, it’s supposed to be absolute evidence that it needs to be overturned, whichever way it is,” Cable said. “When you spend that much time in the booth, obviously, it wasn’t that obvious."

Two things. One, it took a little over four minutes clock time from when they decided to review it, to come up with the ruling. Two, on Sunday two similar plays were ruled different.

My conclusion, it wasn't indisputable evidence, even in slow motion high definition.

H

3:15 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Oakland is actually favored against Denver after putting up next to no offense against the Chiefs? Wow!

J-Mac tweated "Miami proved Monday night you can `prevent' victory by blitzing just as easily as dropping into coverage if you do it against wrong QB"

Well, maybe we're just looking for that happy medium when our LBs don't trip over their own feet while backpedaling into deep coverage.

Besides, I'd rather go down with guns blazing.

Rex Ryan brought pressure D to the Jets, and they're riding high at 2-0, having just beaten the Patriots while holding them to 9 points.

3:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

H-

just trying to get both Huff an Al a pat on the back for something they both have been getting panned for. neither way is the right way to go, but just trying to even things up a lil.

i believe that Huff is finally getting played the right way, being put in as a nickel safety is perfect for him and his slight but fast body. he is making big plays in this spot. i say keep playin Eugene like we are, unless Mitchell starts comin on. i wanna see this guy layin some hat on sundays !!!! Branch has been SOLID. we are in alot better shape at the safety position than most were thinking before the start of the season.

nyraider, no Cable didn't say that during training camp. actually he talked about how Jamarcus WAS taking it upon himself to be there longer and stay around the Raider complex more than he ever had, and trying to lead by example and establish himself as "THE" leader of this team. he did say that Jamarcus needed to do that, but that was before camp and ota's. i can only imagine the things you would be saying had this have been said during camp. how your mind twists these things baffles me.

frkyraider

3:24 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

I was never that satisfied with Hiram Eugene, but he was effective last season. What I'd like to see (but don't expect to see this season) is Branch moved to FS, Mitchell moved to SS, and Huff remaining as NS. I think that would be awsome.

And frankly, the way Huff has responded at NS, it might be that he's a better option to back up Nnamdi than Rout.

3:58 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

about jamarcus russell. i realize his stats are terrible, but he has shown a rare trait in a young qb.

the ability to lead his team down the field for a late game winning drive.

he did it last yr, against the bucs. did it last week vs sd, and did it again to beat chefs.

of course, he still must improve the other 3.5 quarters of the football game. but at least there is something to build upon with him.

something that can give us hope in his future. remember, he still is young.

4:25 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Agreed 00. That's three season games in a row where Russell has led the team to a go ahead score in the final few minutes. That's Kenny Stabler type football, even though we're not seeing the Stabler type accuracy through the rest of the game.

But accuracy can be learned. Comeback football is a quality that can't be taught. It takes presence and leadership.

If Russell can nail down consistant accuracy, we're on our way. My feeling is that Cable will give him the season to make the adjustments. If he can't, Russell will see some competition come in next training camp.

Garcia was let go because he failed to provide the competition.

4:37 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Cable has a huge responsibility to get Russell back on track. The game plan and playcalling needs to take into account that your QB is REALLY struggling. It is imperative for Cable to re-commit to the rushing attack. He also needs to dial up the plays that will allow Russell to establish a rhythm.

6:54 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

frkyraider -

“i can only imagine the things you would be saying had this have been said during camp. how your mind twists these things baffles me.”

Don’t hurt yourself there big fella.

It’s the same theme Cable has been preaching since Day 1, and he restated as recent as Monday.

Cable - “We each have to do, in my opinion, a lot more work,” Cable said. We have to invest a lot more time in what we’re doing every day on our own with our books, and note taking, and film watching, and all those things because I think it has to get so ingrained in your mind that failure is not an option.”

He went on to say that, unlike a 9-5 job, players should take football home with them at night, basically live and breathe it 24-7.

It should come as no surprise that Russell would be included in (if not the focus of) that sentiment. This goes back to what I said, take stock in what you do for a living. If what you’re doing isn’t working, work harder. That’s what I’d do for $60 million!!

That said, I have held that I am most impressed with his Russell’s late game poise, or stones as Calico Jack says. You can’t teach the calm in the pocket that Russell demonstrates when the game is on the line.

Blanda - I’m with you about keeping Huff at NS. He’s better than Routt in that capacity. Let’s move Mitchell in there and see what he has.

7:07 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>

In the end it was a subjective inteperation of the rule, as Steve Young stated. And it went against us and for the other teams.
>>>>


You and I think a lot alike at times because I got into a lengthy argument about this on Usenet. If you can't exactly how long a person has to hold onto it besides "until the play is completed" then everything is completely subjective and thus should NEVER be overturned in the booth.

IMO, the three other plays last week shouldn't have been overturned either.

How can a play so subjective in the first place be "INDISPUTABLE"???

8:16 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

My take on Jruss... perhaps he is simply a streaky QB and until he becomes a grizzled veteran, will always be. He had a great game last year after Cable said there wasn't a ball that touched the ground all week in practice... maybe we will get lucky and this is another week like that.

This is prolly his biggest game of his career. A thumping of Denver and a share of the AFCW lead with two division wins puts us on track to the playoffs.

1-2 with two division losses puts us "same ol-same ol" and perhaps some finger pointing.

8:32 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

I know that Russell has bought into being a leader of the team.

I know that Russell has the right demeanor and poise to handle the pressure of the position.

I know that Russell has the abilitiy and athleticism to become an elite QB.

I know that in 2009 we won't have an above average passing attack.

What I'm looking for in Russell is to make the completions where he has protection and an open WR.

As the season progresses, I want to see a ocntinual improvement of our passsing attack and development of our inexperienced WRs.

In my heart & mind, I believe if Cable, Tollner, and Hackett can get Russell on track, we will be able to compete for the AFC divisional title.

This division is up for grabs. Our defense has been solid. Guys like Huff, Branch, Ellis, and Seymour are making a BIG difference. Our special teams is above average. If we can get the running game going, we will be a team that can compete on any given Sunday.

IMO, the difference between a 6 win season and 8+ wins will be Russell making the plays we expect him to make on a consistent basis.

10:30 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Here's a good perspective on Russell from J-Mac

http://tinyurl.com/kpdwpc

4:03 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

The Broncos are riding a 2-game winning streak, and will come into Oakland with a little chip on their shoulder. They’ve implemented a new 3-4 defense, which has worked well for them. Orton is not spectacular, but has shown some ability to execute plays with sound fundamentals, something that Russell is struggling with.

The flip side of that; Denver’s two-game romp was against the Bengals and Browns. They are implementing new systems on O and D, and bound to stumble evidentially. No time like the present. Their primary WR is MIA on the field (oops, so are our top 2-3).

Anyway, the keys to the game are all those obvious things like, controlling the LOS, establish the run (and stick with it), stay in lanes on D, blah, blah, blah.

The real key will be for the Raiders to stay hungry. They have to want this win, and be prepared to do what it is necessary to take it. The Broncos are primed for a letdown. Stay focused, stay hungry, and we can bring it to them.

4:29 AM  
Blogger H said...

NYRaider,

Yep, according to Danny Sheridan we’re a whopping 1 ½ point favorite. But, I’ll take what I can get.

Also, Cable was talking about the “entire” offense on Monday. Hence the “we”. He was not singling out Russell.

Here’s an interesting quote from the article you recommended NY:

“The Raiders lost anyway, with Larry Johnson scoring from the 1 as time expired moments after running 37 yards to the 1 with a middle screen against a Raiders blitz.”

Notice the last two words. Seems we’re damned if we do, damned if we don’t.

Gary,

If we think alike you could be in trouble, I know I’m a lost cause. But, I think 60 million is a lot for “streaky”. Russell has to get over that. He’s had a stable offseason and now has one of the best QB coaches in the league. Let’s get him going. Like it or not, he’s the starting QB and if the rookie WR’s are making mistakes and are not where he wants them to be, he needs to get with them and correct the situation. That’s the next step in his maturation process.

Calico,

Back during camp I wrote we didn’t need lights out play from Russell this year. Just steady improvement. If we get that then we have a good shot at the playoffs. Then he can “breakout” next year when he is more comfortable with all the young WR’s. Mostly we need the Chaz back and to get Miller going early and often in the passing game.

H

4:57 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

5:13 AM  
Blogger H said...

Welcome back Panty.

Upon further review (I was thinking again).

My biggest concern this week is the O-Line. With Gallery out we now have a big hole on the left side.

Through the first two games the left side is zero sacks and zero penalties.

Say what you want about Noland not getting the job done with the Whiners, he is a very good DC. He will probably try to take advantage of Gallery's absence.

The Geldings won on a tipped pass week one and played a bad Cleveland defense week two. I think our defense is better than the Brownies', so it's going to come down to the offense again.

Look for a few more Wild Pirate formations, possibly with a pass or two from the formation. (Hope Noland isn't reading this)

H

5:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

H,

Doesn't matter when he was down, you have to make the completion before you have posession, and you have to maintain control of the ball while after you go to the ground to get the completion, which Murphy did not.

I agree the 'going to the ground' part of the rule is not very clear.

But I do maintain that those three plays were different. Murphy came down on two feet straight down ontop of the ball and lost it. Doesn't matter if the defender was there or not, the FACT is he went to the ground during the catch.

One guy came down on both feet, took a full step then changed direction and dove at the endzone. Remember that term they used to use 'a football move'? They took that term out, but that's what they were talking about.

And finally, the third play, the guy went to the ground, was down on his knee, then went back in the air (holding the ball up in both hands showing posession), and landed a second time on his back which jarred the ball lose.

I think the two non-raider plays are suspect to debate (how far is the continuation of 'going to the ground'), but the Murphy play was not a catch, unless you start using still shots. The fact that they overturned the play on the field makes it taste that much worse.

Maybe I'm just still numb from the snow-job and a little 'poke' here and there doesn't bother me because of the serious @ss pounding we got on that one :-)

-moshbucket

6:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

H,

Doesn't matter when he was down, you have to make the completion before you have posession, and you have to maintain control of the ball while after you go to the ground to get the completion, which Murphy did not.

I agree the 'going to the ground' part of the rule is not very clear.

But I do maintain that those three plays were different. Murphy came down on two feet straight down ontop of the ball and lost it. Doesn't matter if the defender was there or not, the FACT is he went to the ground during the catch.

One guy came down on both feet, took a full step then changed direction and dove at the endzone. Remember that term they used to use 'a football move'? They took that term out, but that's what they were talking about.

And finally, the third play, the guy went to the ground, was down on his knee, then went back in the air (holding the ball up in both hands showing posession), and landed a second time on his back which jarred the ball lose.

I think the two non-raider plays are suspect to debate (how far is the continuation of 'going to the ground'), but the Murphy play was not a catch, unless you start using still shots. The fact that they overturned the play on the field makes it taste that much worse.

Maybe I'm just still numb from the snow-job and a little 'poke' here and there doesn't bother me because of the serious @ss pounding we got on that one :-)

-moshbucket

6:55 AM  
Blogger H said...

Moshbucket,

“the FACT is he went to the ground during the catch.” So did Rosario and Jacoby. Rosario did not take two steps. He caught the ball in the air, was contacted and “spun” toward the goal line while “going to the ground” after being contacted by the defender. With Jacoby, the ball came out even quicker than did Murphy.

“But I do maintain that those three plays were different.” I maintain there were more similarities than differences. All three were contacted by a defender, all three were going to the ground.

“I agree the 'going to the ground' part of the rule is not very clear.” If that is the case then there was not “clear and irrefutable” evidence to overturn. It was a “subjective” call. I’m not arguing whether any were TD’s or not, or there is some conspiracy. I, and Steve Young, are arguing that there was a subjective component to the call, and that there was not clear and irrefutable evidence to overturn. Therefore we were hosed.

We still may have lost the game, but not because of a play where the guy in the booth decided to review as in the Snowjob. Also, how does the official on the field quote so precisely from the rule? It sounded as if he had just read it. Are they allowed to look up rules during replays? Is that why it takes four minutes to find clear and irrefutable evidence?

So I guess they are now down to frame by frame analysis until they can find where the ball moved a sixteenth of an inch while going to the ground. It was put forth by Chris Mortensen that the ground cannot cause a fumble but it can cause an incompletion. It is also said Murphy should have been able to get up and hand the ball to the official without it coming out. Well, the other two weren’t able to.

And if they took “football move” out, they can’t use it. And do we know he was “showing possession” he might have been trying to control it.

And it does matter when he was down. If the receiver was down when his knee hit, then Murphy was down when his butt and the back of his knee hit the ground.

Way more similarities than differences.

The Thumbtacks are now 0-2 partly because of the TD being allowed (they lost by 3).

It’s time to send this horse to the pet cemetery, he’s starting to smell.

I do not believe in a conspiracy. However, I do believe when there is doubt, you go with the reputation of the team or player, i.e. the Raiders are undisciplined so he didn’t make the catch or he really did hold. Same with players, “he’s just a rookie”.

John Madden once said Dwight Stephenson was the best holder in the league. He almost never got called but he held on about half the plays. Reputation, All American, All Pro, etc. Historically it’s usually the same teams at the top and bottom of the penalty charts, very little movement unless a certain coach comes on board.

H

9:12 AM  
Blogger H said...

Having said all that, we are nowhere near the bottom of the league in penalties this season.

But, the day is young.

H

9:26 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Anyone who remembers the implementation of that rule should remember that it was designed to address instances where the play was actually going to the ground "in the act of catching the ball" (i.e., the player's body, knee, butt hitting the ground to end the play, not both feet). This is why, typically, players get up with the ball raised to show that they caught it in these instances. Otherwise the catch is complete when the player has control of the ball and both feet come down. In the other calls, one didn't satisfy either rule, and the refs went with the intent of the rule in the other. In the Murphy call, the refs ignored the intent of the rule, expanding it's interpretation to deny Oakland the TD.

9:32 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

A "football" move in the rule, as I stated earlier, refers to the player attempting to extend the ball, while coming down, for extra yardage, or to extend it beyond the first down or goal line.

Don't forget, also, that generally the direction of the NFL is to make it easier to score rather than to make it harder. The NFL feels that high scores bring in more fans.

9:37 AM  
Blogger H said...

OK, it's now getting spooky. BSPN writers are now agreeing it was a TD.

http://tinyurl.com/mgtvhc

This guy puts the full rule as to what constitutes possession of a catch or interception.

I think the key here in the "going to the ground" thing is "in the process of attempting to secure possession of a loose ball", Murphy had already secured possession of the ball.

H

10:50 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

I think that was my point.

11:10 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

When Murphy's second foot hit the ground, it was a TD. Whatever happened after that point was irrelevant. The rule itself says it doesn't matter whether he was in contact with a defender or not.

11:12 AM  
Anonymous Raided Nate 75 said...

JRuss is working with Paul Hackett, who is the most respected guy in the League to work with QBs. That is a great sign for us, if he can't fix JRuss, his name will change to JBust.
It's early in the season, and I'm not too worried about it yet. But if JRuss can't turn it around in the next couple of games, I will be.
Let's get ready to BBQ some DONKEYS! Go Raiders!

11:40 AM  
Anonymous Derick from Section 344 said...

Had some work to do in Oakland yesterday so I stopped by the Raider image store right across from the coliseum. Wasn't there 2 minutes when guess who walked in the door..RICHARD SEYMOUR! I didn't say anything to him, kinda wish I would have. The weird part was he was speaking with the manager about when the shipment of his Jersey will come in and be available for sale. Kind of funny. Does he really have to buy them like everyone else? I picture him going into Al's office:

SEYMOUR: Hey Al, I'd like to get a few extra Jerseys, you know, for my kids and wife etc..

DAVIS: Great Richard! The Raider image store is right down the street.

SEYMOUR: Wait, so you want me to go and buy some?

DAVIS: Well Richard, we could certainly use the revenue

SEYMOUR: Um.. Ok...thanks Mr. Davis

DAVIS: JUST WIN BABY!!

11:44 AM  
Blogger H said...

Blanda,

When BSPN writers start agreeing with us can the Apocalypse be far behind? Will a giant Stay Puff Marshmallow Man soon be stalking downtown Oakland? Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria!

Hey, Chris Mortensen, see what your colleague wrote.

The guy who wrote the article agreed with you and me. Now that’s a rarity.

H

12:29 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

H, the TD was as clear as glass. The NFL throws mud on the glass and says, "See? It's a no-brainer. Incomplete."

The NFL will always lie its ass off in order to make itself perceived as unbiased.

Trust me. The NFL knows full well it was a TD.

Derick, the players get a cut of their jersey sales. Just like they get a cut of their name and likeness being used on Madden Football. Seymour likely wanted to know when the money would start coming in.

12:39 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

JMac has Gannon analysing what Russell is doing wrong. He feels it's two things.

1. Footwork - frequently attempting throws off his back foot which causes the pass to sail.

2. Making the decision on who to throw to while dropping back.

In regards to the 2nd item, that would mean that Russell is getting the picture too late, where he should make the analysis over center. That would mean that he has not yet learned to penetrate disguised defenses.

Gannon seems to feel that Russell is more comfortable working out of the shotgun, which gives him a better view of the defense.

That's my take.

2:46 PM  
Anonymous ButteryPat said...

I really enjoyed Gannon's analysis of Jamarcus. I often decry the "jockocracy" for putting athletes in journalism roles, and then having them simply spit out cliches that anybody with a passing interest in the sport could say and then calling that "expert analysis", but here, Gannon is really showing a little something extra. Heck, he even did the legwork himself, something you almost never see out of any of the talking heads these days. Perhaps he'll be the next Pat Summerall, making the transition from athlete to journalist easily. Keep it up, Rich! I loved you as a player, maybe I'll love you as a commentator too.

5:03 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Gannon obviously has a special interest based on his past affiliations with the Raiders and with Paul Hackett. Plus, he was always a nut for film study... we'd be extremely lucky to have some of his work ethic rub off on Russell.

5:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

H,
I hear you on the dead horse. Fact is we had a whole half and plenty opportunity to win that game. In mma I always hear them say don't let the judges decide it for you.

Below are the links to the zebras explaining all three plays.
Looks like the murphy link might not be working, I'll try to fix that.

-moshbucket



Murphy drop:(well, this link doesn't seem to work, just plays comercial then no segment)
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d812adbab/Official-Review-Week-1

Other Catches:(you have to watch the commercial, but this link should work)
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d812dd884/Official-Review-Week-2-bonus-coverage

7:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blanda,

The rules have a subpart that says you have to hold onto it if you go to the ground, which means it is NOT necessarily a touchdown when he catches it and touches his feet down. He still has to satisfy the subpart. You can't just wish away parts of the rulebook no matter how you feel about them.

I posted some video links, hope those help.

-moshbucket

7:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

H,
keep in mind that page2 column is satire, so he's hatin' on the zebra's bible more than showin' love to the nation.
-moshbucket

7:35 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

H -

"Cable was talking about the “entire” offense on Monday. Hence the “we”. He was not singling out Russell."

Of course he's not singling out Russell, nor would he. It's a team sport, and he would never take anything that personal with his QB to the media. That's stating the obvious.

Gannon made a good point that Russell is holding back this offense right now (despite a number of other contributing factors). He needs to catch up. Even some of the simple things are not getting done properly.

This isn't being hard on Russell, it's the facts.

4:29 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I don't want to beat this horse either, but are the rules different for catching a ball in the field of play as they are for catching a ball in the end zone?

I always thought it was the intention of the NFL - through numerous rule changes that protect the QB and disallow contact with WRs - to favor the offense and promote more scoring.

Based on hard evidence, this seems to be the case for other teams, but not the Raiders. You can pick apart those plays until you turn purple, but in the end, as H suggested, there is very little that separates them.

4:37 AM  
Blogger H said...

Moshbucket,

The fact that he was dumping on the officials as opposed to giving us some love is irrelavant.

For good satire to work, there has to be an element of truth, and there was.

But, the bottom line in his article was rules that are overly complicated and are in conflict with each other. Something I pointed out earlier. You actually have more than one rule that defines possession of a catch.

Under those circumstances the refs just pick which one they want to apply.

It should be simple and not this complicated. But, that's what you get when lawyers are writing the rules. They try to put every conceivable twist and turn into it so some other lawyer can't find the loophole.

H

4:46 AM  
Blogger H said...

100-

Ok Guys.

This whole thing is reminiscent of another play while playing the Dolts. Third down, a tight end catches the ball, hits the ground jumps up and spikes the ball. He wasn’t “touched down”. Raiders cover the ball. Simple right?

EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (buzzer sounds)!

It’s actually (drum roll please), an illegal forward pass! WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Intent of the rule be damned in this case.

The Dolts ARE penalized from the spot, BUT they keep the ball and get a fresh set of downs, score on that drive and we go on to lose a game where we were outplaying them to that point. So add The Spike in to the Snow Job, the Immaculate Deception and others, and well…

I try hard to not believe in conspiracies, but after a while you start thinking it might be easier to just give in to the paranoia.

H

5:11 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

This ridiculous article is particularly hard on Russell, and selectively fails to point out that Russell performed well in crunch time.

http://raiderbeat.com/?p=4722

I have advocated working harder with Russell, and Russell working on his own, but not pulling him...
at least not yet.

6:15 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

7:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NY,
I'm not 100%, but I don't think there's a difference. main rule says in the field of play or endzone, and I haven't heard of any fineprint or special cases otherwise.

And yes, you can pick apart those plays, but it doesn't take long to realize....
"as H suggested, there is very little that separates them."

And those little difference are why the ruleings were different.


-moshbucket

8:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

H,

"It should be simple and not this complicated."
You got that right brutha!

Unfortunately, it's impossible to write rules to cover every circumstance.Rulebooks will always be evolving things, and as it evolves, it grows all these subparts and subsections and stuff, so the zebra can apply the rules instead of making the rules on the fly.

Try reading a few pages of OSHA regulations. I did that for about the first 4 years of my working life, ironically, rewriting them in laymans terms so regular humans can understand them.

I don't think they're handpicking which rules to use, you have to apply all the rules and some override others, not necessarily in cronological order.

sorry. tripped over it on the way out (the horse).

-moshbucket

8:22 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Minty fresh stuff from Gannon, eh take?

That was the best stuff I've read in a LONG time.

Maybe it's just Hackett, but he sure seems high on tom cable, doesn't he?

His analysis of Jamarcuss gives me renewed hope. I guess he reinforced what I was hoping was the case (No OL plus few receivers plus rookie receivers = rough outings for Jamarcus).

-moshbucket

8:29 AM  
Blogger H said...

Moshbucket,

Don't even get me started on OSHA.

Interesting stat (yeah, stats are for loosers). But in the two games against the Geldings last year Russell completed 73% of his passes.

Different DC but many of the same personnel this time around.

H

9:55 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

From Cable regarding Walker being interfered with on his "muffed" punt.

"Cable said the Raiders had gotten a letter back from the league saying that Walker had indeed been hit and the non-call was a mistake on the part of the officials."

I bet they wouldn't have received that letter if the Raiders hadn't recovered it.

10:53 AM  
Blogger H said...

Blanda,

Or the Raiders had lost the game.

H

11:03 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

moshbucket -

Remember, part of Gannon's success was directly related to his blue collar work ethic. I don't mean to keep harping on Russell is this regard. My point is that not many players, if any, work as hard as Gannon did to elevate his play on the field. He was completely consumed by football by the time he worked with Gruden.

Russell is young and probably has other interests, like eating and sleeping... things Gannon I'm sure did while contemplating his next pass.

12:10 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Good call, NYRaider.

Remember, Gannon didn't come into the NFL projected as a starter for anybody. In fact, they originally were going to convert him to a safety, but Gannon refused. He sat, for many years, at the bottom of depth charts. He realized over time that the only way he was going to start was to work harder than anybody else.

Gannon never had the physical tools that JaMarcus had, but he turned himself into the best game manager in football.

3:09 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>

Gannon made a good point that Russell is holding back this offense right now (despite a number of other contributing factors). He needs to catch up. Even some of the simple things are not getting done properly.

This isn't being hard on Russell, it's the facts.
>>>

I agree 100% and I can guarantee that Denver is studying the game tape of what KC did to shut us down and we will see much of the same... the doubling of Miller... etc.

I hope we see more shot-gun this Sunday because JRuss looks much more comfortable from it (as Gannon mentioned) and he is capable of connecting on screens because he was doing it with ease in pre-season games.

I dunno... I'm not sure if I were a DC I'd feel 100% comfortable with banking on JRuss sucking every week... he did put up 24 points vs a very good SD team in week one.

3:15 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

And in spite of the opening game blow out by Denver, JaMarcus put up big numbers against them last season.

4:35 PM  
Blogger Mr.Duva32 said...

I love Gannon and I always will. He never "sugar coats" anything. I to this day still wish we had him for another 10 years. Could you imagine what we could have done with him at QB?

Gannon's break down of JaMarcus' last 2 games on film, could give some head coaches around the league and many of the players a lesson in proper film studies.

Blanda, you are 100% dead on. Gannon never had the physical skills like most of the QB's have in this league. But to become the best Gannon did the next best thing. He made his mental amplitude for the game 10 fold. He pushed himself to the level of perfection and saw his success with Oakland flourish to---Pro Bowl selections - 1999, 2000, 2001 & 2002
Pro Bowl MVP - 2000 & 2001
NFL MVP - 2002

But not all guys have that kind of drive. JaMarcus just has always had his arm strength to save him. Well it does not bode well right now for us. I still have a lot of expectations of JaMarcus like many of us do. Sure there are all kinds of variables out there they may cause his learning curve to be, well dysfunctional.

That's fine I guess, but if you want to be the best. Then you do everything that is necessary to become the elite of the elite. You step up and grab a guy like Gannon. Talk to him, invite him to Oakland, do whatever you need to and have him teach you the fundamentals of the game as the way he sees it. Cause to be the best you've got to learn from the best. End of story.

His whole demeanor just sends signals like, don't worry I will step up when I need to. NOPE, that doesn't work for Raider Fans bub.

10:00 PM  
Blogger H said...

Interesting quote from Murphy:

"I feel he's doing fine, honestly," wide receiver Louis Murphy said. "We've had some dropped balls; nobody's mentioned any of the dropped balls. Nobody's mentioned the wrong routes. JaMarcus, he's taking a lot of (flak), a lot of criticism for our lack of play, too, as receivers, running backs, the entire offense."


A rookie manning up. I like that.

Russell should take most of the heat. That goes without saying and he is the guy making the big bucks.

But, a rookie coming out and talking like that is refreshing. Would something like this have come from Craptree. I doubt it.

This is a fourth rounder calling out the whole offense. A team guy. A clarion call to get our collective crap together on offense.

Now, Russell did miss some wide open guys. He has some work to do, and quickly. But I'm talking about attitude here, and I like it.

This guy may turn out to be the steal of the draft.

H

5:52 AM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Some young players who have stepped it up ...

Henderson
- arguably has played the best football of the offensive unit

Murphy
- showing maturity and polish beyond his years

Branch
- versatility in run support and coverage has solidified the back end of our D

Huff
- can be trusted to be in the right place at the right time

8:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

this is nonsense about banning gannon from the production meetings and team facilities. I can understand caring very little for people like Warren Sapp who mouth off with little semblance of intelligence AND never brought the Raiders any modicum of success. Gannon brought so much to appreciate in his few years with us, including an unbelievable work ethic, one of the best offenses this league has ever seen, and an offensive leader the team is still searching for. His criticism has had its merits, and the team front office is making (more) decisions that the fans can't support.

11:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NY,
I never meant to imply that Jruss had near the football brain&communications system that Gannon has.

Not knocking J-russ, he's a different type of QB, no doubt.
And I have to give him a pass right now, because the 'excuses' right now are ligitimate. Ask Rich :-)

Was Richey banned from Raiders HQ/Fac/??? or something?

-moshbucket

12:54 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

moshbucket - understood. ... and the NFL will not allow the ban the Raiders would like to impose on Gannon. It's a shame the man is not allowed to speak his mind... in what seems to be an objective (even somewhat obvious) take on Russell.

Here's a good read from J-mac that should get us all pumped for the game.

http://www.ibabuzz.com/oaklandraiders/

GO RAIDERS!

5:47 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

6:28 AM  
Anonymous blackbagonia said...

Sunday's are no longer reserved for Raider football. Next week Drive-by Truckers. Following week, Atlanta little five points. After that, surfing in bodega bay or anything else that can keep my mind off Raider football. out...

9:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

blackbag,
Is this Todd Marinovich (sp?)???
Just the surfing comment, but I guess you didn't specify in the nude.

H,
Bummer on the PITA with DTV.
I canceled my SundayTicket the first sunday about 30min before the game started. The first level of support tried to tell me I was a day late to cancel it, and I couldnt' get a prorated refund either. I told her I need to cancel my account and was transferred to someone who could actually make changes. I digress.
Call directtv and tell them they are your only option for cable and you are considering subscribing, BUT you need to get that previous thing resolved. I digress....


-moshbucket

10:57 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

mid 2nd qtr., on radio (www.ksfo560 dot com)
Jruss looking better, but not much production. Lawton dropped a long gainier, and the zebras ganked another catch from murphy (well, we'll have to wait for the video, but my guess is he was bobbling it).

RunD just got burned for 35yd TD run.

I think our 95% (almost pure) man to man D is getting us killed.
Think about it, the O has control over where the defenders go, basically, and it's easier to exploit miss-matches (maybe?).

-moshbucket

11:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Another holding call, not sure wat the tally is so far, but at this rate we'll be over 100yds in penalties easy.

Lech just punted short (45yds) because the returner was setup so deep. Guy fielded it but was running full speed/tough catch.

Just gave up another 39yd pass play. (back to my previous point, if your run all man2man, the few times you do play zone, you SUCK at it!)...and... there's the TD.
20-3.

Lets see if JRuss and his gang of rookie WR's can get it going.

Evidently (Per papa) the Murphy call (looked like a catch, but was upheld incomplete) was the turning point of the game....

-moshbucket

PS: Good think I played Schaub in my fantasy league.

11:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Great touch by Jamarcus. Great!"
-Coach Flores
"Best he's throwing it all year"
-papa

Current drive, after 4n9 pass to Murphy.


Of course we had to settle for a FG after they started getting blitz pressure on JR. He threw one high while he was getting hit, then threw the next one away after avoiding a sack.

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CJ picked schaub in the endzone, then they flagged him for celebration. He slid to his knees with arms in the air (als lester).
The rule is you can't go to the ground to celebrate.

so we're at the 10 instead of the 20, shotgun, pass to fargas to the 24, then the clown car roles onto the field and players start piling out and switching formations, wasting about 20/30 second get up to the line and false start. We take our last timeout so they don't do a 10sec runoff and we have 20 seconds left and it's halftime.

In russels defense, in his 20? games of starting, he's probably only ran about 12 games worth of plays.

"overall they need to play beter, but they started making plays, that's a plus"
-coach flores before 3rd quarter.

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