Thursday, July 16, 2009

A (Recent) Raiders History Lesson

What better way to survive the seemingly interminable wait for training camp than watching classic Raiders highlights?

No, I’m not talking about the Ghost to The Post or the Super Bowl victories or any of the other epic moments featured on the Raiders’ cool new 50th anniversary web site.

I’m talking about September 10, 2000, when the Raiders overcame a 21-0 deficit on the road against the Colts to win 38-31, igniting what would become an exciting three-year run that culminated in a Super Bowl berth.


I bought this game on DVD several years ago, and now I’m glad I did. I watched part of the second half last night, and it was good for the soul. The Raiders kicked Peyton Manning to the curb and took firm control of the game in that second half. I was particularly impressed with our offense.

Napoleon Kaufman with feet of lightning. Tyrone Wheatley pounding the middle. Tim Brown and Andre Rison running crisp, precise routes. The offensive line giving Gannon ample time, and Gannon making the most of it…

As I watched, part of me thought, Wow!

Another part of me thought, it’s not rocket science. Is it really that difficult to run disciplined routes, block oncoming rushers and throw the ball with fundamental accuracy and decisiveness?

Yes, we had good talent back then, but more than that, we were just crisp and focused and disciplined. Yet in recent years, the Raiders have managed to make this stuff look really complicated and almost unattainable, as if we were trying to unlock the keys to the universe, not gain a simple 10 yards.


Another thing that struck me was how in control and engaged Jon Gruden looked on the sidelines. I don’t know why so many Raiders fans dislike the guy. Prior to Tom Cable, six of our last seven coaches have gotten the boot after two or less years, with Gruden being the exception. We've had three winning seasons since 1994, and Chucky presided over two of them. He must have been doing something right.

Compare his sideline demeanor to Callahan (I belong here, right?), Turner (gee whiz, we’re losing again?), Shell (deer meets headlights) and Kiffin (whatever, is the game over yet?).

I could play quick random sideline clips of each of these coaches to a class full of sixth graders who know nothing about the Raiders, and ask them which coach they thought was a winner, and 30 out of 30 kids, I guarantee you, would pick Gruden.

Tom Cable, please take note.


I imagine that, to some of our rookies and young players, the whole Raider “mystique” and old highlights are intimidating and even hard to comprehend. All of our draft picks over the past few years were born after our last Super Bowl victory.

If I were looking to motivate them with a Raiders history lesson, I wouldn’t go all Stork and Snake and Sea of Hands on them.

I would pop in the DVD of the Raiders vs. the Colts from this very decade, featuring players who are now their professional peers, like Charles Woodson and Sebastian Janikowski.


I would say, look, this isn’t rocket science—as long as you care, and if you work at it, and if you are disciplined in your approach. We can win. You have the talent. But we need you to step up and do what it takes.

Those guys you're watching in 2000 didn't have appreciably more talent than you. But did they have more heart? That's a question only you can answer. And if you give the right answer, we will win again, and you will quickly understand what it means to be a Raider, and what the mystique is all about.

554 Comments:

Blogger PantyRaider said...

"RT"....

Very Damn Good Post....

The one thing that stands out to me is that regardless of the talent on that field if the coaches failed to put these guys in a position to win the players failed to pull out the "V"....

Look at that "02" team who lost in that bitter defeat in "SD"....Now they were predominantly the same players who failed to win more than 4 games in "03" were they not...Now we have the excuses that they were a year older but does that really fly....I think not and Al Davis was totally justified in ridding himself of a "HC" who totally laid down on his job in his second year....

Now look at that "98" team under Gruden and Shaw as "DC"...They were predominately the same damn players who failed to win with Bugle were they not...So while the players have added to the scope of the problems as in...

"The Inmates Running The Asylum"...

If the Coaches had a grip on the team and the fundamentals of the game those players would have been focused and not spent their collective time waisting away another season....

So I liken it to a construction crew....After some 30 years in the steel trades as a Boilermaker/Iron Worker/Steam Fitter and my stay at USU College of Engineering I knew my job and how to accomplish the task extremely well...As did several others who worked side by side with me....However....As individuals we all had our own approach to the task and were not consistently in agreement about how to approach the job....Not to mention there were always little riffs that developed due to differences in personalities...

That's where a strong Superintendent with his General Foreman comes in...It's that leadership without which even the finest men in a craft will do damage to a project....That's just the reality of the business and that reality prevails in everything from Ship Captain to Bank manager....

The ownership really ever communicates to the crew performing the task but operates threw their appointed leadership the same way as an NFL owner would threw his "HC" and "DC"-"OC"....

So now we unfortunately know what happens when those people of leadership fail to give adequate attention to their task....We have the Raiders and our losing ways despite the talents and hearts of the players on the field....

This is why I posted a few weeks ago that there is far more on the shoulders of these coaches than will ever be upon the players...So your pep-talk is nice and the players need to realize there responsibility to the organization and it's rich history....But much more importantly these coaches need to focus on their responsibilities...

Develop Talent and properly utilize those talents....

Design schemes and implement those schemes....

Evaluate players and play the best regardless of "Scholarships"...

Run a tough professional program of conditioning...

Maintain motivation and focus by being demanding in the field and establish competitions at all levels....

Teach the basic fundamentals and see to it that they are the focal point throughout the season....

Now that's a daunting task but that's exactly what it takes to build a working team....

Now as a side not....The ownership is "80" and NOT on the field....Does anyone in their right mind think Al Davis is the culprit here...He has failed to hire the right man for the job....YES....That is his failure and nobody else's...By his foolish loyalties he may have allowed coaches to survive longer than they should....YES....That's his personal failures....But when you look at the task that is at hand how could you possibly expect he is the one who has failed this team and it's fans....

PantyRaider....Just A Legitimate Question!!!/_

11:31 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"RT"....

Clarification...

What has failed us...We have had talent....Al Davis opened his wallet and spent his cash...We have drafted well and have acquired new young starters...But for 6 seasons we have been a collection of individuals instead of a united unit....A "Working Team"....Now who's responsibility is it to build this roster into a "Working Team"...Al Davis'....I don't think so....

In "98-99" Gruden built a "Working Team" out of a collection of individuals...That team jelled in 2000 when Field Marshal Gannon was added and and it continued thew Callahan's 1st season....But in his 2nd season Field Marshal Gannon went down and there was no one amongst the players nor coaches who could be the glue to hold that unit together so it fragmented back into what it actually was....Just a collection of individuals....

Thew a line of "HC"s we have continued to be just that...A collection of individuals...But now Cable speaks....

"I understand the problem and I know how to fix it"....

I hope this is what he's referring to...Bringing back that "Working Team"....

Thew time we have been an organization of "Slogans" and that shows up in the fans also just as on this site as we bombard each other with those little Phrases...But one needs to understand the reasoning behind the words...Their not just words on a banner...

"Us Against The World"

It has a very distinctive meaning and purpose...It was used to unite a collection of individuals to fight as a single unit in battle as a unified loving brotherhood where each depended upon the other for survival....The War Zone...

Now what do we have to evaluate or team season to season....

Score Board Bitch....

And as long as we fail to become a "Working Team" we will continue to see that score-board speak very abusively about us as in the recent past...

PantyRaider...Stop Pointing Fingers And Unite In A Common Purpose!!!/_

12:34 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"RT"....

Another Thought....

"Pep-Talks" to the players are fine after we have them standing united in a "Working Unit"...Prior to a season or game when you need to build a fresh spirit of aggression than that's the time for "Pep" or at half time and we are down...

But now I ask....What effect could it possibly have on a group of individuals going and thinking in opposing directions....Does "Pep" unite anyone....

So how do you unite individuals in a common thought -n- purpose while ignoring their individual goals -n- desires/agendas for the good of the team....

Take a look here on your site....What could you do to unite the now bickering posters who have spent the past 6 seasons pointing fingers at every possible cause -n- effect in our Raiders' Universe....

As I remember in "06" it was against the players spearheaded by the likes of Porter that "Mutinous Dog" who was attempting to incite a rebellion against his duly appointed Captain of the Ship....

In "07" it was Coach Shell with that "Breakfast" guy and their "Mole" that was exhibiting mass "Paranoia"....

In "08" it became "SOB" and his failures and why won't that feeble old owner let the "HC" pick his own crew....

"08" it was the owners failure to relieve the team of a "Lame Duck" "HC" coach who had sold everyone out....

Only now does the real picture start to become clear....

Football is a "Team-Sport" and we have NOT been a team in the trenches...In the Back-Fields...Amongst the Coaches...Or with the Front office...Just a collection of individuals looking each one for his own advantage...

How would you go about fixing the problem....How would you unite all us posters in a common thought for a common purpose and get us to abandon our "Finger Pointing" and petty bickering for the good of the site....

PantyRaider....Not An Easy Task As There Is Resistance My Friend!!!/_

2:22 AM  
Anonymous Mad Stork 83 said...

Well done RT. I love the old highlights as much as anyone but I get the feeling some of these kids roll their eyes when the "good old days" are brought up, as much as that idea sickens me. I still watch last year's Denver, Houston, and Tampa games when I'm on the treadmill, those games give me hope. I hope this year's team makes me save more than 3 games on my DVR next offseason!

6:08 AM  
Anonymous Arkansan Raider said...

Outstanding Take, RT. Very well done.

I would agree, as well, with taking a look at some of the smattering of games in the victory column post-Callahan and glean what the Raiders have done right in THOSE games. It's a bit more work, but I think well worth it.

JMHSO

---Jeff

7:37 AM  
Anonymous Tinfoil said...

I agree with your entire Take on the 2000 Colts game. Thats one that I go back to watch at least annually. (A useless piece of trivia is that was the same date that Indianna fired Bobby Knight and the sports news was mostly devoted to that news item.)

To me, Chucky's statement game was the last game of the 90's when Raiders went into KC and knocked KC out of the playoffs in an OT game that the Chiefs had us down
17-0. That was the game where the Raiders got their idenity under Gruden.

Being an optimist, I'm hoping the same thing happened last year under Cable when the Raiders refused to roll over in Tampa.

9:25 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Okay, Bama7, you called me out, let's have at it.

"Raider Realist: In my opinion the back and forth is incited by Blanda. Blanda trys to take every Raider debacle and explain it in a way that totally removes Al from any blame, which is impossible. He is our owner and GM."

Really. My criticism of Al Davis is well documented on these posts, Bama7. This is what I'm talking about with "rewriting history." What it comes down to is 1) my criticisms of Davis are different than yours, and 2) they respectful of a man who has given me over 40 years of entertainment.

"Blanda, the more you are presented with facts the harder it becomes to make the puzzle pieces of your argument fit -- Like the assessment above that SOB was responsible for moving Irons and Brayton (two Al favorites) to OLB."

Really? Brayton and Irons were two of Al's favorites? What's your evidence? That Brayton (a first round pick) was allowed to fulfill his contract before he was released? And Davis so loved these two that he wanted to risk destroying their careers? Did he love them as OLBs when he drafted them? If so, why weren't they converted in their first year? I'd also remind you that Brayton showed a good deal of promise as a DE the year before he was converted. Answer these questions please, and please don't try to tell me that Brayton did not have a promising rookie season as a DE.

"If what you say (it was an SOB decision) is true, then why wouldn't Al have let Kiffin name his own DC when Kiffin tried?"

You obviously don't think Kiffin's approach had anything to do with it. But you don't have any trouble at all ignoring that Kiffin was fine with Ryan when Kiffin first came aboard. You seem to think it's no problem to tamper with contracts in the NFL (even though sanctions for doing so can lead to extensive fines and loss of draft choices). Also, answer for me why Davis seemed to have no trouble changing DCs for Cable. And if Davis was so enamored of Ryan as his personal "yes" man, why didn't Davis name Ryan HC instead of Cable?

"And if SOB was calling all of the DC shots then how come Al took credit in '06 after the Shell/Walsh debacle... the infamous 'you saw that defense didn't you,' when asked what part he contributed to the '06 season?"

Here, again, we have "Al should take all blame, but receive no credit." If the owner is responsible for everything, Bama, why can't he take credit for success? He HAS taken blame for the lack of it. He did that at a press conference last year. But you really think that Al was attempting to claim that he calls the defensive alignments and plays? This seems odd to me when he's gone to much trouble to dispel rumors that he does that. The funny thing seems to be that no coach in the history of the Raiders has ever claimed that he does. You don't think after all of this time, some coach, somewhere, might have stepped up and said, "I hated that Davis called all of the plays for me, and I only got credit when we failed." Well, some coach must have said that. Go find it for me Bama, and I'll apologize for my unreasonableness.

9:39 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Now, Calico, let's go to you...

"Coaches, players, and colleagues make recommendations to Davis on a regular basis. No one discounts this fact."

Um, Calico, you seem to be wrong on this point. See my post to Bama7, above.

"However, at the end of the day, it is Davis who makes the decisions of consequence."

Fine, Calico, but let's look at all of what you and others are leaving out here. 1) Ryan came aboard as one of the most respected defensive coaches in the league because of his work with LBs as a 3-4 specialist, and his pedigree. 2) Ryan attempted to convert the system to a 3-4 in his first year. He was allowed to do so, but failed (so his first could well have been written off as a failed experiment). 3) In his second season, also under Turner, he converted back to a 4-3, and it was well known that the Raiders didn't have a complete defense in terms of personnel. His second season could have very well have been written off as a defense in progress. Shell believed this, and asked that he be retained. 4) This is the big one that everyone fails to mention (with the exception of H, Panty and me). Ryan produced a top 10 defense in his 3rd year. 5) Kiffin was fine with Ryan, and so was Davis. With a top 10 defense, who, exactly, wouldn't be? 6) Ryan's defense was not as expected in Kiffin's first year. Also of note was that Kiffin's offense was not significantly improved. We were NOT getting nearly enough 3rd down conversions, so the defense was constantly on the field. However, Ryan had produced a top 10 defense the year before, and Kiffin hadn't improved what he was there to improve. Also of note was the fact that when the offense seemed to step up, the defense also did fairly well. Kiffin also discredited himself by demanding that Davis hire his father, leaving Davis to conclude he was dealing with an overgrown child. 7) After Davis fired Kiffin, if he was so enamored of Ryan, wouldn't he have promoted Ryan to HC? He bypassed Ryan and gave the job to Cable. 8) After 12 games with Ryan, Cable replaced him. No objection or argument from Al. None!

If we had a stable HC in place, Ryan might well have been replaced after two or three years. Nothing was going to get him replaced the season after putting up a top 10 defense. With SOB's background, he was going to survive the first two years under the circumstances of those seasons.

Therefore, the only window of time when Davis might have fired SOB all on his own was the off season after Kiffin's first year. And normally I'd agree that this is the time when Davis should have, and would have done it. But I think the way Kiffin handled it was plenty of cause for Davis to be concerned that Ryan was not the real problem, and Kiffin was. Davis was well aware that Ryan was a better team leader than Kiffin, and was considering Ryan to replace Kiffin - thereby also bringing in, or promoting a new DC.

My position is NOT unreasonable. In fact, it makes a good deal of sense in spite of how you want to paint it.

9:39 AM  
Blogger H said...

Good take. I would add to the Colts game for folks who recorded the last two game of last season. Underdogs in both games. Season in the crapper with only three wins to that point. No one mailed it in. I’m with Tinfoil on this one.

Both of those games were the most complete games I had seen in years. Offense, defense, special teams, they all showed up. Russell didn’t pass for a lot of yardage against TB, but he hit some clutch throws, especially after the interception. The special teams kept putting the TB offense in the hole with punting and our kickoffs were deep. They also were getting good solid returns on both kickoffs and punts.

Onward and upward.

H

9:56 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

My favorite game over the last six years is the most recent. Coming back and winning after being down by two scores late is something that has been greatly missed. It was also a game with much on the line for the franchise. Tampa Bay was fighting for a playoff spot, they were playing with a good QB, it was against Gruden, Nnamdi was out with an injury, and we hadn't won the last game of the season since our Super Bowl year.

Over the recent past, the team would fold in these cirumstances. But in this game, after falling behind by two scores, the team seemed to recommit itself and picked up the intensity. It is definately a game to build on.

10:23 AM  
Blogger H said...

Looking at the anniversary site, I like it. It encapsulates the history without being gaudy about it.

Three things of not in reviewing the highlights.

1. In Super Bowls 11 and 18, we blew out the opposition and neither of our quarterbacks broke 200 yards passing.

2. In Super Bowl 11 Fran Tarkenton was sacked by Phil Villapiano, a known linebacker (just wanted to do some tweaking).

3. How about that monster 4 inch verticle jump of Madden's. It might not have even made 4 inches.

As for Take noting that Gruden was focused and involved. Look at Cable down the streatch. No clipboard to stare at. After a good play he's right there to congratulate ALL the players coming off the field.

He also seemed to be in the ear of the closest official in most of the games. Keeping them straight. In those last two games we had a total of six penalties.

H

11:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have all the Raiders games from 1998-2002. I had 'em on VHS, and then transfered them. Love popping these in once in a while, but for me, those Raiders "turned the corner" in the season finale in KC where we beat them and knocked them out of the playoffs. I think it was 1998. To me, that will always be when we started to learn how to win.

I still can see Chuckie dancing around like a rock star basically twisting the knife in the Chief's back when Jano's kick went thru. Good times.

That said, the key to the Indy game you wrote about was Greg Biekert tapping into Mannings signals and basically figuring out their offense in the cecond half and what was coming. More good times.

JSpicoli

11:24 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

JSpicoli, I think you might be confusing the last game of 1998 with the first game in 1999. We finished them off in '98 final, and then played the same game in the season opener against KC the following year. We fell way behind early, then came back and kicked their butts.

The reason I say this is because in 1998 we had Nedney. This was before grabbing Jano in a controversial draft pick. Many argued that we should have kept Nedney in place and passed on Jano.

11:48 AM  
Blogger H said...

JSpicoli and Blanda,

That would be the 99 season (01/02/2000 game day according to Pro-Football-Reference.com). But it was Joe Nedney who made the kick. We drafted Jano in '00 because of all the games we blew due to poor FG kickers (let's not start a lot of diatribes about Jano, been there, done that. Just stating some facts).

I believe that was the famous, "We're going home, they're going home." game comment from Darrell Russell. If the Chefs had won, they would have made the playoffs (sound familiar).

Had Russell kept his act together we wouldn't be having the discussion about not drafting good DT's. At least he is free of his demonds. RIP Darrell.

H

12:04 PM  
Blogger H said...

I just realized something. In 97 we took Darrell Russell (Pro Bowl his first two years), then Leon Bender a highly touted DT in 98.

Russell wound up with the life ban from the NFL and Bender died before camp with a heart abnormality.

Those two would have been in their prime 2003-2006. Nothing meant, just an observation.

H

12:31 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Be careful, H.

12:37 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Here you go, Bama7. Call Nnamdi a liar.

"I don’ even know if he’s even into Twitter and all that stuff. It’s great working for him. First of all, he doesn’t come out all the time. People always want to know if he’s always at practice. He’ll come out every now and then, maybe once a week, just to see how the team is playing, or see how the team is preparing, but Al is a guy who wants to win, and I think that’s what gets guys going. You’re looking for a guy who wants to win so badly, and he’ll go whatever lengths he has to get that job done."

1:37 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

As long as I've been on the soap box lately, I've decided to throw out a defense of two players who have taken considerable hits on this site (neither of whom are on the team any longer). I have no great affinity for these players, and I've extensively criticized one of them while defending the other.

Mark Wilson:

It has been said here that Wilson was an Al Davis "scholarship" and was never a viable NFL quarterback. That is far from the case. Wilson was extremely capable coming off the bench, and was an excellent back up quarterback. I remember two games specifically where Wilson lit up the scoreboard against very good NFL teams. One against the Cowboys and one against the Dolphins.

But Wilson had a fatal flaw that was not discovered until he became the starter, replacing Jim Plunkett. The fatal flaw was that he had absolutely no ability to hear footsteps. Repeatedly Wilson would get caught standing like the Statue of Liberty, with the ball raised over his head, by a blind-side hit, causing him to fumble. NFL defenses figured this out fairly quickly in the 1985 season. Once Wilson was aware that defenses were on to him, he began to throw a boatload of interceptions out of fear he was about to get hit from behind when there was no one there. But as a back up quarterback, Wilson was outstanding, and certainly not a "scholarship." The Raiders looked immediately to replace him once the defect became known.

Brayton:

Brayton was a 1st round pick, signed to a five year rookie contract. He left immediately when the contract expired.

In his rookie year he was praised for his "high motor," known to not let up until the whistle blew. At the end of his rookie season, before the change in coaching staff, folks were looking forward to what Brayton might bring the next season. Enter Rob Ryan, who converted him to an OLB for a 3-4 defense. Brayton was never an OLB, and wasn't suited as one even in a 3-4. If anything, with that high motor, Brayton should have been asked to beef up to move to DT.

To make matters worse, when Ryan went back to a 4-3 the following year, he left Brayton as an OLB (now in a 3-4 alignment). Whatever made anyone think that Brayton might be good in pass coverage is beyond me. He might as well have been converted to safety. Yet he was asked to wallow at OLB in a 4-3 for two more years.

After two years of slimming down and attempting to increase his speed, he was converted back to a DE. It was a position he had not played in three years. In addition to that little problem, instead of having him play DE, he was played frequently at DT.

A failed experiment? Absolutely. Not a reasonable NFL prospect? Maybe, maybe not. An Al Davis scholarship? Hardly.

2:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, I bet you guys didn't know that the Raiders have not been over .500 since week 3 of the 2004 season, and that every other team in the NFL has been over .500 more recently than the Raiders have. Don't believe me?

The following list shows the year and the week that each NFL team last had a record above .500;

2008 - WEEK 17: Bears, Buccaneers, Cardinals, Colts, Cowboys, Dolphins, Eagles, Falcons, Giants, Jets, Panthers, Patriots, Ravens, Steelers, Titans, Vikings
2008 - WEEK 16: Broncos, Redskins, Saints
2008 - WEEK 12: Bills
2008 - WEEK 8: Packers
2008 - WEEK 3: 49ers
2007 - WEEK 17: Browns, Chargers, Jaguars, Seahawks
2007 - WEEK 12: Lions
2007 - WEEK 8: Chiefs
2007 - WEEK 5: Texans
2006 - WEEK 16: Bengals
2006 - WEEK 5: Rams
2004 - WEEK 3: Raiders



Just take a moment and let that sink in. To the true, hardcore, die hard Raider fans, this statistic should turn your stomach.

4:50 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Anon 4:50 pm did the same drive by post on my site. Here was my response;

No doubt, the last 6 seasons the Raiders have been 'pathetic'.

However, how about some perspective?

Do you realize that the Raiders have been to the SB more recently than the following teams:

SF
St.Louis
Atlanta
New Orleans
Green Bay
Minnesota
Detroit
Dallas
Washington
Denver
Kansas City
San Diego
Tennessee
Jacksonville
Houston
Baltimore
Cleveland
Cincinnati
Miami
NY Jets
Buffalo

Do you realize the Raiders have participated in 5 SBs and won 3 while these teams have never won a SB ... EVER:

Arizona
Seattle
Carolina
Atlanta
New Orleans
Minnesota
Detroit
Philadelphia
San Diego
Tennessee
Jacksonville
Houston
Cleveland
Cincinnati
Buffalo

Do you understand that the true definition of pathetic is in 43 SBs played, these teams have yet to get there:

New Orleans
Detroit
Jacksonville
Cleveland
Houton Texans

Based on your list, do you want me to congratulate New Orleans for being at .500 more recent than the Raiders? Last time I checked, the goal of every team is to make it to the SB and win.

7:09 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"BR"...

Mark Wilson was a highly tooted "QB" coming out of BYU and we played against him at USU while I was there....He had the protection and picked us apart with their 5-"WR"s even though we were WAC Champs that year....Had he played in that same type of "O" in the pros he may have been very good....

As for the "Scholarship" he married Al Davis' Niece so he was family but Big Al continued to look for another "QB" despite that relationship....He was drafted 1980...We took Rusty Hilger late in "85" draft.... Steve Beuerlein 4th rd in "87" and Wilson was let go the following year....Only 7 seasons with the team as a "QB" which position usually plays much longer if they're any good so where was the scholarship....

led the team in passing in 1981 before throwing only two passes as a backup to Plunkett in the strike-shortened 1982 season

He took over for Plunkett as the starter midway through the 1983 season but was injured two games later

Plunkett rebounded to lead the Raiders to victory in 1983

Wilson-
leading the Raiders to the AFC West title in 1985....With these stats....193 for 388, 2,608 yards, 16 td, 21 int, & 24 rushes for 98 yards and 2 td...

He was outplayed and replaced by the aging Plunkett in 1984 and 1986

1987 was the quarterback of record in the Raiders' first losing season since 1965....Which was the same year Steve Beuerlein was drafted and Wilson's last on the team....Rusty Hilger was the "QB" for 5 of those games that year....

So now in all of this what evidence is there of a scholarship....Just the opposite...

Tylar Brayton...His 1st season he was spoken of as a good pick while Nnamdi was a bust and ridiculed by the press....In the end this is just another example of what "SOB" has cost this franchise....The list grows...

Charles Woodson
Phillip Buchanan
Tylar Braton
Slow development of....
Nnamdi
Chris Johnson
Micheal Huff
And who knows who else was neglected under his staff...

PantyRaider....How Stories Get twisted!!!/_

7:57 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"CJ"...

Good positive reply...

Everything has it's perspective...

PantyRaider...The Positives Are There If We Look!!!/_

8:01 PM  
Anonymous Arkansan Raider said...

Quick correction, PR:

The Raiders went 7-9 in 1981.

---Jeff

10:55 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

PR:

I'm not quite sure if anon was a Raider hater or someone who is genuinely upset about the 6 year slide.

Regardless, I always think it is important to put things in the proper perspective. No matter what anyone says, Raider fans are rightly proud our history. We have been to the SB in 4 of the past 5 decades and won more SBs than the vast majority of franchises.

The ultimate scoreboard:
SB Rings

11:20 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

ArkansanRaider....

Thanks...That wasn't a "Typo" it was a total mis-quote....I read it wrong...

"CJ"...

The fact that's hard for them to live with is we ain't done yet...There's more to come and the future is ours...

PantyRaider....Forever Hopeful!!!/_

2:33 AM  
Blogger H said...

Calico,

Careful, you'll be accused of living in the past. Here's one stat to add to your list. The Atlanta Parakeets have never, repeat, never had back to back winning seasons. That's 48 years without consecutive winning seasons.

Talk about futility.

H

4:34 AM  
Blogger H said...

One more thing. Even with the last six years of frustration, we are still a top five winning NFL franchise all time.

H

4:35 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"H"....

But that's very sad....We`were once upon a time the #1 winningest team in the history of sports....Now those were days to be proud of....

PantyRaider....So Much Has Been Waisted!!!!/_

8:53 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

H - "One more thing. Even with the last six years of frustration, we are still a top five winning NFL franchise all time."

True, but what about the young fans (or the would-be fans) that only know the Raiders as losers? We're working on the better part of a decade with the worst winning percentage in all of professional sports. Not actually a glowing endorsement for recruiting the next generation of Raider fans.

The obvious answer is, it's up to us. Dust off the DVDs. Alternately, it rests on the shoulders of the 50th aniversary team... your 2009 Raiders!

11:53 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

A new set of downs...

A new coaching staff in place...

A talented core at the specialty positions...

A young team in the making who have shown signs of turning the corner...

A deep group of "Old-Timers" to instill the Raider Way"...

And our "50th" Anniversary season....

Now doesn't that sound like a story in the making!!!

PantyRaider...Bring Me My Chips -n- Beer I'm Ready For The Pre-View!!!/_

7:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My favorite part of that Colts game is right before half time, you can hear Biekert right before the snap "It's a draw! It's a draw!" and sure enough, it's a draw. Then he goes in at the half and breaks it down for his team and they come out in the second and shut 'em down. Stellar work.

Storminator

8:06 AM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

i loved the raiders website.

i watched everyone of those great old highlights.

can't wait for football season to get here.
i am more hopeful then i've been in a long time.

the keys to the season are j. russell and john marshall.

2:06 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

speaking of all these great games on DVD ... does anyone have a site to recommend. I tried Craigslist and EBay without any luck. I would love to get my hands on a dozen or so select games on DVD.

8:25 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"CJ"....

I also have looked but have found very little....There is a DVD named

Complete History Of The Raiders

And it has with it the 1977 double overtime game between the Raiders -n- Colts but it's broken and narrated...It's still very interesting but it's not un-cut the way I want...

NFL.com came out with the "SB"s but again their NFL-Films and not un-cut versions...

What we need to do is find someone who has the tapes and is willing to send out copies for a price as long as it's done behind the scenes because NFL-Properties will come down hard on it....They even attacked the "Raider Nation" for having our own graphics and slogan and tried to attack the Booster Clubs for the same reason....

PantyRaider....Without The Written Consent Of The NFL!!!!/_

11:34 PM  
Blogger H said...

The NFL is sitting on a goldmine.

I'm sure copies of all the Superbowls are sitting somewhere collecting dust. I know they have replayed some on NFL Network.

Think what fans would pay for a boxed set of all a teams games for the season plus the Super Bowl for winning teams.

Or a fan ording copies of their favorite all time games (Holy Roller, Sea of Hands, Ghost to the Post). Some of those games have just as special a place in my memory as do the Super Bowls.

They can keep the Immaculate Deception.

H

6:28 AM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

PR:

I have the commercially produced DVDs by NFL Films (ie. Complete History, America's Game, etc). What I'm looking for are homemade DVD copies of individual Raider games ... pirated (no pun intended) copies!

7:09 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Careful, guys. You're getting close to solicitation.

However, I'd love to have a boxed set of the Raiders' greatest and most famous games.

8:49 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"CJ"...

I wish I had some but living on a boat I don't have cable so don't get the broadcast...I have to go to the Bar to watch....

I do have a DVD Recorder that takes Tapes and converts them if we could find someone with tapes but it has be done quietly....It's no joke what NFL-Properties will do....

They tried to stick my friend for $50,000 for having NFL Sunday Ticket and having a group of people over to view it...They tried to say he was selling admission and this is for "Private" use only...Your own household....Crazy Ha!....So he had about 20 friends so freakin what...The way they tried to get him is because he said "My TV Your Beer -n- Chips so he was charging admission and that's NOT allowed and someone turned him in....He thinks it's a guy who he refused to have over....But there's punks out there...

"H"....

They are like women....They have all the games and almost all the money but are still very selfish so they let little by little at a time go out...

This season I will have their "HD" Internet broadcast and save it but this is not very good for viewing unless you keep the screen area very small...Their definition of "HD" and mine are worlds apart but it's better than what was available last season so I will buy it...

Also I want to down-load all their short "Vid"s from the 50th site and make a small movie with it but here again it has to be viewed small....

PantyRaider....Pirates Plunder!!!/_

8:52 AM  
Blogger H said...

Blanda,

Mine is absolutely capitalist. I just don't understand why the NFL doesn't do it.

They blew it not doing it during the VCR era. Tapes of games then. Now repackaging and reselling them as DVD's.

I know some Star War's geeks that have the original VHS releases, the upgraded VHS releases, the original DVD releases and are now waiting for the Blueray release.

I'm sure there are football fans that would do the same.

H

9:21 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Okay, since we're getting close to training camp.

Which players, new to the Raiders this year, most intrigue you?

For me it would be Murphy and Ellis.

9:54 AM  
Blogger H said...

Blanda,

I go with Murphy and Mitchell.

Ok, everybody is out there cutting down the Raider Organization for cutting Stryker Sulak.

In the words of that great philosopher Garfield, “Big fat hairy deal”.

One article was even lamenting he was released before he signed his first NFL contract and didn’t get to receive his 90,000.00 dollar bonus. Just being drafted doesn’t guarantee a contract.

And just who gives a rat’s ass if Tom Brady was also a sixth round draft pick. You can only have 80 players in camp. If number 83 in the pecking order turns out to be the sixth round draft pick then so be it. He’s a free agent now get an invite from someone else.

Sulak was drafted while we were entertaining offers for Burgess and we hadn’t signed Ellis. Some clown is also saying the Raiders are in trouble because they are starting camp with meetings the first day and two-a-days the next four days. Claims it means Cable may be installing a whole new offense. Hey numnuts it might mean they are installing a new defense, or it might mean nothing. Cable turned the NFL down on their offer to allow him an extra OTA because he was a new head coach. So, what the hell does that mean? Come on bright guys, read something into that. And, if he is putting in new components to the offense or defense, so what.

They’ve looked at the min- camp and OTA videos and see where they have to tweak things. That’s just the way it works.

Further, some coaches use two-a-days as incentive. Pay attention and execute properly, we’ll drop the evening practice. It’s up to you. It’s called accountability. You don’t want to be amongst the players that caused you to have the extra practice that day.

This is how uneventful the offseason has been, they are trying to read something into the camp schedule.

Man, I think I need some more caffeine to make some sense of all this crap.

H

10:14 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

I do think it's kind of crappy that no one from the organization even bothered to call or talk to Sulak and level with him. His agent found out about it from the waiver wire.

I'm sure I'll hear all sorts of excuses as to why this is acceptable, it's a business, blah, blah. But common courtesy/decency suggests that a three-minute phone call to the kid was in order. Bad karma. Maybe that's our problem.

10:24 AM  
Blogger H said...

Take,

They may have dropped the ball on the notification, I don't know. But, all these clowns are acting like this is the frist time in the history of the NFL that a sixth round draft pick was dropped before signing or the opening of camp.

But again, it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't. They're too loyal, yeah that's the problem - they didn't call the guy, how cold, maybe that's part of the problem.

It wouldn't have mattered if they called the guy or not. The talking heads and typing fingers would still be going on with their drumbeat. Oh my god, the Raiders let a sixth round draft choice go, man they are in dissaray.

It just gets a little old and tiresome, the predictability of the media.

And, to try and read ulterior motives into the camp schedule. Meetings the entire first day, just what the hell is going on out there. Hey, sawdust for brains (speaking to the media types here), Cable is into teaching, maybe this is part of it. Not all teaching happens on the field.

Give me a break.

There, now I feel better.

H

11:09 AM  
Blogger H said...

By the way, according to my count I think there are at least two more players to be releassed or waived. What will they say then?

Also, part of waiving Sulak may have been to help the guy out. If someone had claimed him they would have to sign him to a league minimum contract.

Probably not, but it's just as good as being mean SOB's.

H

11:17 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Just because Sulak's agent didn't find out until it was put on the waiver wire doesn't mean that's when Sulak found out about it. How do we know that Cable didn't give Sulak a phone call and it appeared on the waiver wire before Sulak made a call to his agent.

Doesn't really matter. It's the first I'm hearing of it. That's not the controversy anyway. It's the fact that the Raiders are releasing a 6th rounder before camp starts.

Could be considered a favor. "Oops, our bad. We won't have room for you after all, so we're going to release you now so you have time catch on with someone else." Personally, I think Ellis was the end of Sulak.

12:11 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Sulak's agent: "What’s really strange is I still haven’t heard from the Raiders, and they haven’t called Stryker either."

I agree that the release of a sixth rounder isn't going to keep me up at night, and that the media is going overboard on that point.

But it does sound like a bit of bad karma, to not level directly with the kid. If you're doing him a favor by cutting him, then do him the favor of explaining it to him.

I know I'll get hammered for perpetuating an otherwise silly story, but I think that the Raiders could work a little harder on the karma front (including its dealings with fans). It's their choice.

12:42 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

I just checked JMac's page. According to JMac Davis showed up on the waived list but he found out about Sulak from PFT.

Interesting PFT knew about and Sulak didn't, if such was the case. So folks 3000 miles away were talking about what Sulak apparently still doesn't know.

Now, I don't have any idea what the situation is, and like everyone else I don't really care. But you figure someone, somewhere would have to say something by the time Sulak showed up on the 28th.

1:12 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

The Sulak thing is a little strange, and seems to at least imply poor scouting by the Raiders. Nevertheless, it clearly has been over-hyped by the media.

Blanda - I agree about being most intrigued by Murphy going into camp.

I’m also worried that DHB and Mitchell may not meet the high expectations of their first and second rd selections, respectively, if for no other reason than nagging injury.

Look what happened to McFadden last year (a year which he proclaimed prior to the draft that he could be Andrian Peterson-esk coming out of college).

1:21 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

The good news, nyraider, is that I read today that DHB is almost 100%, and didn't attend JaMarcus' practice so he could heal.

Haven't heard the lasted word on Mitchell. I have a feeling he's in good shape if they released Davis.

I'm starting to get excited because next week it will all come together or completely fall apart. Ah, the mystery.

3:28 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Just read JMacs article about Sulad not being informed.

So... here's this kid destined for the Hall of Fame, mysteriously landing in the 6th round by simple happenstance. Then, on his way to earn his spot in the Pro Bowl, the Raiders cut him without explanation.

"Weird sh*t goin' on there," says Warren Sapp. "I gave them four years of Hall of Fame play and they just cut me loose! Just like that!"

Not only that, but Sulak is reported to be a GREAT KID!. He likes to hunt and stuff.

"So what if they were over the roster limit," said Mike Lombardi! They should have cut that lazy ass, Russell. Everyone already knows they picked up Garcia because they've lost faith in Russell!"

4:06 PM  
Blogger H said...

Keep repeating the lyrics - Pay no attention to the media idots behind the curtain - Keep repeating the lyrics.

H

4:44 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

H:

Just to set the record straight, I firmly believe that the following are not mutually exclusive;

Reflecting on the past and proud of our history yet still being grounded in the present.

Independent and critical viewpoints yet still a loyal fan.

BR:

The 2 players that I'm the most curious about are the top 2 picks DHB and MM. Both rookies should have an opportunity to earn some meaningful reps. on the field.

In regards to Sulak being released without notice ... professional courtesy dictates a simple 2 minute phone call to the young man. You can slice and dice this topic all you want but it is totally inexcusable, lazy, bad form, heartless, and yes, bad karma.

7:15 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"Midget Minded Mediots"....

Why would anyone listen...

"RT"....

What ever happened to "News You Can't Use"....Now instead every stupid "Mediot" post becomes another terrifying testimony of the depraved Raiders....How sad is that....

Most excited players....

I'm not at all afraid of the 1st -n- 2nd rd choices and I'll name them as the players to watch....

Both these guys are extremely gifted athletes with a rare combination of size/speed/athletic ability/versatility....They are as fast as fast can get....

"DHB" was NOT just a deep rout runner like a James Jet....He was a speedster coming out of the back-field on sweeps/reverses and he was dificult to bring down....He also caught passes in the short and turned them up-field for big gains....When he gets the timing/communication down with "J-Rus" we are going to see a multitude of very exciting plays....

Mitchel has elite speed and is an extremely aggressive tackler/hitter in pursuit...He is a Blitzer...But also good at pass coverage so he is not a one dimensional player....When he is teamed with Nnamdi/Johnson -n- Huff or who ever plays that "S" position we can expect good things to happen in that "DB"....I'm anxious to see him lay the wood to a "WR" and bring back that element of "Intimidation" that has been missing for so long....

Murphy....Yes I like the guy also....This shows the amount of depth we now have at that position...Play-Makers in the making that are young and should be here for a while and they all have good size -n- speed...Well...One is only 5'11 but he has the speed....

"DHB"...
"JLH"...
Murphy...
Schillings...
Jonathan Holland
Arman Shields
Todd Watkins
Walker..?????..

What was once a Raider weakness may now become a strength...

PantyRaider...Air It Out!!!!/_

7:37 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

The "Turk" came early....

Excuse me for asking but is there much history in the NFL Past testifying to the release/trade of players without prior communications....

Seems to my memory there is a huge history of this sort of thing....Right -or- Wrong it happens in a multitude of places...

Now...Do we know anything about his short time with the team...Just maybe a little "Bad Blood " developed and he knew it was coming but his agent dosent want to admit it so he points some fingers and lays the blame....This way he keeps his client in the news and hopes for another opportunity....

It's the one doing all the talking that I don't trust...The one that's quiet is also usually the one who was right....

PantyRaider....Personal Experience!!!/_

7:50 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"A Cruel Heartless World"

One more thing...

I have never in some 4o+ years ever been given warning that I was about to be laid-off/fired....Knowing full well that my family -n- I were totally dependant upon that income...So forgive me if I don't get worried that a now Pro-Player has to deal with the same life lessons that many of the rest of us have to deal with everyday of our lives regardless of age so cancel that "Kid" shit....It's the reality of life and if a MAN wants to live it he has to deal with it as it comes....

NO Wa! Wa! Wa! from me....

"Just Deal With It Baby"....

Now...The lesson learned....The next time he gets an opportunity he had damn well better make the most of it...Had he done so as a Raider we may not be having this conversation regarding him....Instead it would have been that "UFA-DE" that was taken later who would have gotten his "Walking-Papers"....

PantyRaider....Lord Knows I've Had My Share!!!!/_

10:51 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

2nd point....

This sends a very clear message to all....It doesn't matter where you were drafted or signed as an "UFA"....If you don't take care of business you will not be here....Period....

I personally was sad to see Joseph go but he went early enough to land with another team...But where the hell is all the freakin "Crying" for him after they told his sad sad success story across America....

Oh!...da Hurrah!...Those dirty Raiders cut that poor poor boy when he was trying so had....

PantyRaider....Obviously Not Hard Enough!!!!/_

11:10 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Now here is something worth reading from a "Mediot"...It's positive but critical at the same time as it simply states the reality...

http://www.insidebayarea.com/raiders/ci_12879335

Now let's hope "MM" -n- Huff can develop into what that mad was...

PantyRaider....Future Investments!!!/_

11:26 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Asomugha: It’s great working for him. First of all, he doesn’t come out all the time. People always want to know if he’s always at practice. He’ll come out every now and then, maybe once a week, just to see how the team is playing, or see how the team is preparing, but Al is a guy who wants to win, and I think that’s what gets guys going. You’re looking for a guy who wants to win so badly, and he’ll go whatever lengths he has to get that job done.

Asomugha: I would say Randy Moss. I’ve said it a few times now, any time I get the question, that’s going to be the answer. There are several receivers in the league that are above everyone else and you’re going to have to always bring you’re A-game for them, but Moss is a guy who always seems to be in his prime. Even as he ages, you wonder when he’s going to slow down, when he’s going to stop with all the tricks on the field. When I say tricks I mean, the mental games that he plays with his guys in terms of changing his routes, changing up his stance and things like that. He’s a guy you’ve got to be prepared for each and every snap. And I played with him for two years, but still couldn’t figure him out the way that I would have liked to. I would say Moss.


– If the Raiders do trade Burgess, do they try and sign Stryker Sulak? Teams dump undrafted free agents all the time and bring them back. From a business sense, the Raiders would pay little or no signing bonus instead of the $80,000 or so they were facing.



The following is an insightful post that shows further evidence of "SOB"s lack of ability to develop a player....What we may have lost over time...



Lions linebacker Darnell Bing finally must feel like he has a home — and a position he’s becoming more familiar with each day.

In the three seasons since Oakland drafted Bing in the fourth round in 2006, he has played one game while spending time with four teams. It has been a circuitous journey for Bing since a neck injury derailed his progress with the Raiders in ‘06.

Last year, Bing joined the Lions. He played mostly on the practice squad until he was signed to the active roster in December and finally saw his first NFL action in the season finale at Green Bay.

All this time, Bing has been trying to learn the ropes at linebacker. Bing, 6-feet-2 and 226 pounds, played safety at Southern Cal and switched to linebacker with the Raiders.

“I feel like I’m finally fully making the transition to linebacker,” he said. “Last year being here helped me a lot. … I could get the same amount of time as everybody else as far as the installation (of the defense) and stuff like that. Just the coaching staff and the players here as well, they’ve been helping me transition to the linebacker position a lot. I feel like it’s been going pretty good this year.”

Bing said shedding his defensive back instincts has been one of the biggest challenges, but he feels like he’s making progress.

“I still always have the safety mentality,” he said. “So I’ll back up before I come forward. I would always be late on my run reads. But I’ve been able to slow down the game a little bit, and I’m coming up on my runs a lot faster than I used to.”

BY CARLOS MONARREZ • July 20, 2009

12:10 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Calico, Panty makes a very good point. If my firm were to fire me, this is how it would go down.

I would show up for work in the morning, just like every other day. Except on this day someone (likely the office manager) would meet me in the lobby with a police officer. I'd be escorted to my office and only allowed to take what I could prove, or what obviously belonged to me. And then I'd be escorted by the OM and the police officer to the door.

If, by some chance, they missed me in the lobby, I'd find that my electronic key didn't work anymore, and if I tried to log on to my computer, it would accept my loggin/password. When I notified office services of the problem, then the OM and the police officer would show up in my office.

So, a guy who will probably find a way to make over $250,000.000 for six months work, didn't get notified that he didn't get a job. My heart bleeds.

8:30 AM  
Blogger H said...

Panty,

"They are as fast as fast can get...."

I don't know, didn't Bo run a 4.2 or a 4.1, I can't remember.


Calico,

"Just to set the record straight, I firmly believe that the following are not mutually exclusive;

Reflecting on the past and proud of our history yet still being grounded in the present.

Independent and critical viewpoints yet still a loyal fan."

Oh, I agree, and I am grounded. I just refuse to wallow in the mud of despair. Contrary to popular belief, I have been critical. I have scratched my head and lamented over certain choices. But, then I let it go. Doing mental calisthenics over every decision they make just isn't my idea of fun. I don't dwell on the past, mine or the Raiders. But, I am sustained by it.

I have actually been criticized for being overly enthusiastic and optimistic. I feel the disapointment of the last six seasons as much as any of us. But, as I said, I have to let it go at some point.

Hell, even with my criticisms of Gruden and his agent, I still owe him a debt of thanks for the years he gave us.

but, the day I stop my optimism or enthusiasm, the day my glass becomes half empty, is the day I stop being a fan.

H

9:06 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

I'm with H. What a surprise.

H, Panty and I have all been critical at times, but we've generally found different concerns than many of those here.

Part of it is that none of us will ever know the inner workings in Alemeda. We don't know what has been said and/or effectively communicated behind closed doors. I think the three of us likely take the view that on any issue the media only reports a piece of the puzzle.

Even when releasing Sulak, we don't know the entire issue. It could very well be that the Raiders have issued a blanket directive to the players that when the players are not at the facility they should check the Raiders web page for information that will include releasing and signing players.

What I'm saying is that since there is much we don't know, and will never know, we can beat our heads against the wall, or wait to see how the situation plays out.

Training camp will begin to reveal how good the Raiders' off season was. All of the arguing here won't change a thing. Not to say that we don't come here for the thrill of the argument, but what happens on the field provides the only clear perspective.

I'll allow a bad year, especially due to injuries, for any team. But a bad year is usually notice that something is wrong, or is going wrong, and the team must make adjustments.

Where that puts us right now, from my perspective, is that the Raiders have spent the better part of 50 years doing things right. Over the last four or five years the moves from Raiders HQ have been either ill advised or ineffective. I don't believe that the most recent is always the most accurate, so I do have faith that coming years will more resemble the better years.

10:27 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"H"...

very good...I second the emotions...

It's one thing to acknowledge the errors while remaining positive about a product but it's another all together to use a product extensively while bashing every little thing regarding that product...If it's that freaking upsetting why continue to use it unless ya just enjoy the agony....

As you said when the glass is less than half full or more than half empty it's time to move on...

This reminds me about an argument I just saw amongst "Donko" fans....Seems they like to have a second team so when the "Donko"s Suck-Ass (pun) they already have another team for support...Now if that ain't a pile of Mule-Shit....

Far be it for a Raider to act the same way...We live and die with this team daily season to season and with damn good reason....Remembering all that has been given instills reliable "Faith" that it will be there again....

PantyRaider....The Future Is Ours!!!/_

10:29 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"BR"...

Again we make a "Simul-Post" with the same feelings expressed in a slightly different format....Now that's spooky from 10,000 mile apart...

PantyRaider....Positive Raider Connection!!!/_

10:36 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

The reason why my optimism is bruised is because last season was a total inexcusable train wreck. Not a bad season. A train wreck.

We poured many millions of dollars down the toilet by completely running with scissors in free agency, and then we allowed a lame-duck coach to lead us into the season with the inevitable consequences of a lost season and some of the worst "performances" ever witnessed on a professional football field.

Frankly, the fans should have been refunded for a few of those games, they were that bad.

This came after five previous seasons of flashing red lights, yet we still ran the red light...At 80 miles per hour.

Yet some of you seem shocked that certain Raiders fans have thrown up their hands and are now saying "prove it."

Well, sorry, that's how the world works.

When you don't learn from your mistakes and you keep rolling out an inferior product year after year, your benefit of the doubt starts to dry up.

That's where we stand right now, in my opinion. The benefit of the doubt is slim. We have entered the "prove it" era.

10:57 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Rod Woodson..

Speaking about the Denver game November of "02" during our "SB" run...

"That was a big play, We were on fire at the beginning of the year. We were 4-0 — and then we were 0-4. We were at the crossroads. We really were."

Brian Griese drove the Broncos deep into Oakland territory on the next possession.

"They were gutting us," recalled defensive tackle John Parrella, "We had no answer."

Now at the 4 yd line and threatening to score....

Except Woodson baited Griese into thinking he would follow Shannon Sharpe into the end zone, and then slid back to Clinton Portis, the check-down receiver. Griese threw it directly to Woodson at the 2, and his 37-year-old legs set sail for the end zone.

98 yd "TD" "INT"...

It energized the Raiders offense, with Gannon completing 34 of 38 passes for 352 yards. It jump-started the defense, which sacked Griese five times in the Raiders' 34-10 victory.

It started a five-game win streak en route to an AFC title before ending with a resounding thud in Super Bowl XXXVIII from which they've never recovered.

Who will ignite that fire now....

11:33 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

The following is my opinion but I don't have all the needed evidence to support it...Just a Gut-Feeling as I try to understand what really happened to our Raiders....



"Short History Of The Raiders Woes"

I believe now that it all started in 1989 when Al Davis went outside the organization and hired the "RAT" as "HC" and the players rebelled....

At that time the players gained the understanding that they possessed great power within the Raider Camp...The players knew how to unite under a common purpose and did not sway far from this new power which they had gained...

I now believe Art Shell as "OL" coach from "84-89" was an instigator with the players against the "Rat" as "HC" which came back to bite him in the ass when he was promoted to "HC" both his 1st -n- 2nd terms....But now the pieces were in play and the team began to disintegrate over time into it's respective parts....

Under Shell I as "HC" there was periods of success as well as failure but progressively Shell was losing control of his team...He had the Marcus Allan incident followed by the Hosteler incident which demonstrated to Al Davis that a change was necessary so action was taken to remove him as "HC"....

Now it was at this point that Al Davis should have become ultra-active with his team but as I recall he was embattled in law suits with the NFL during this period and making plans for the return home so the team became neglected...He became un-aware of the depth of the problems...

In comes Mike White who showed some signs of life but never established a working team and after 2 seasons he was replaced by Bugle who was despicable as a "HC"....Now the dysfunction became complete and he was run out of town on a rail....

11:37 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Al Davis finds Gruden and lets him ignite a fire which burns for 5 seasons in the heart of the players...The 4th season he departs and the players unite together against their former "HC" who had betrayed them and as a united unit they made it to that "SB" in SD" under Callahan as "HC"....But fires have a way of eventually burning out and Callahan had not ignited that fire nor did he understand how to maintain it....The melt-down was started and the "SB" results were a preview of what would follow although we never saw it coming...

The following season the team was flat even with Gannon but when he went down the season came to a screeching halt and there was no-one to ignite anything anymore....Not amongst the players nor amongst the coaches....We were doomed but still didn't know it yet....

In comes Turner who is just Turner...What else can be said....More of the same but worst...Along with him he brought "SOB" who added his own spoilage to what was now rotting on the turf....

Shell II....Now here is where we go completely south...

He hires a loyal friend not because of his football savvy but because he needs someone in whom he can trust....There we go with that loyalty issue again as he goes out and hires a group of all-pros who have little or no coaching experience and no teaching ability....

The player revolt is now in full swing spearheaded by that "Mutinous Dog" Porter...At what point Shell realized he had no hope I don't know...He no doubt remembered this type of revolt under the "Rat" and must have known what he was in for....After all he had instigated it several years back....

The problems spread into the front office as the "Mole" is eventually uncovered and the word "Paranoia" signifies everything "Shell-Like"....Shell is run out of town as is the "Mole"...But now Al Davis is left totally on his own old-n-vulnerable as he desperately tries to salvage his team....

In comes the "Little Bitch" who sells himself as the second coming of Davis/Gruden all in one sweet little package....How Wonderful....Can you now say "Misled"....

Al Davis sells a partial interest in his team to raise capital to finance the "New Dream" and throws money around like there's no tomorrow while the "Little Bitch" plots his wicked schemes...

1st season no good and the blame is sent towards "SOB" who most certainly earned the finger-pointing...The internal "Riff" begins and Al Davis is about to be left holding the bag that is now less than half empty while "Scum Nuts" seeks his new fantasy job with his daddy at his side....Can you say the "Sell out"...

Cable holds down the fort for the remainder of the season and builds a very good working relationship with the owner in the process...He starts to bring back the "Team Spirit" that has been missing for so long and closes out the season on a high note with a few "V"s on the "Score-Board"....

Now a "New Beginning" during the "50th Year" celebration...

The question is have we learned anything from the history that preceded and can this ship be righted by one man with a dream in his "Dream Job" as a true Raider Fan...

PantyRaider...How Would You Proceed!!!/_

11:38 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

My view is a little different.

The players didn't rebel against Shanahan, the coaches did. Shanahan came in with the idea of completely changing the whole organization the way he did in Denver. The Raider execs and coaches at the time (traditionalists) rebelled, especially when Shanahan started going to Shell and telling him, "Davis wants you gone." He didn't expect that Shell would go to Davis in order to have Davis tell him personally.

When Davis found out what was being said, he fired Shanahan immediately and installed Shell.

Of the two problems under Shell one was that Shell inexplicably let the offensive line go down hill. The other problem was that Shell was not either an offensive coordinator or a defensive coordinator, and he relied on others to get that done for him.

In the year before the move back to Oakland, Shell hired Walsh. That's when the players first started to rebel.

Then it was White and others (responding to the player complaints) that caused Shell to be fired, replaced by White.

11:54 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"BR"...

Interesting perspective...

I was only seeing one coach instigating problems but you saw them as a group which makes sense...

I remember the comments by players like H Long about how the team lost it's feel for someones got your back and how they were no longer allowed to sit on their helmets....I felt there was a riff that developed with the players at that time....Long also said how happy he was to have a Raider as "HC" again and those Raider feeling were back....

The problem here is that when the players learn that a "HC" can be eliminated from within they don't forget it and may use it to their advantage later as I think they did...

The players turned on Shell II big-time did they not....

PantyRaider....Bad Seeds Sown!!!!/_

12:09 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Panty, this also adds to my argument that problem with the Raiders has been Davis' lack of involvement. Davis himself said, after that episode, that he had no idea what was going on in the coaching/executive branch of the organization until Shell came to him and he discovered there was a mini-revolution going on.

I figure Davis' lack of involvement, after that, was because he was preparing to move again, then the litigation against the NFL.

I don't think Davis really got back into things until he fired Kiffin. They have behaved more like the Raiders since Kiffin was sent packing than anytime since Flores.

12:26 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

A GM involved in the team ... a brilliant concept!

1:21 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"BR"...

There are a lot of "Dots" from the past and present to connect and we may never get it right but I think it's worth the effort to understand how it all un-raveled from such a great foundation and how that foundation can be restored...

It was "CJ" who kept pointing out that the downward spiral began after Flores left according to the "Score Board" so it was the logical point to begin the process...In comes the "Rat"...

Shell I losing control of the team and on it goes...

As "RT" pointed out Gruden must have done something right even though I hate the bastard for quitting on us....But during those 5 seasons including Callahan's 1st is the only time that the Raiders played as a team instead of everyone for himself....

As Rod Woodson pointed out that "SB" team was imploding at week 5-8 and it was a "D" play that sparked it back to life again....That got the players back together believing in the team....But that flame was flickering and finally burned out just prior to that "SB"....1st with the total melt-down of Robins and than it just spread threw the team like a "Wild-Fire" burning up all their hopes from which we have never recovered....

That's again why I say Coach Callahan has a lot more on his plate than will ever be on these players....How does he right the ship....

PantyRaider....Desperate But Not Hopeless!!!!/_

1:24 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

One of the things that is beyond question, and I've seen it in several reputable analysis, is that the Raiders knew full well that they had to get to the SB in Callahan's first year. They knew the window was closing on an aging team that was about to completely go south.

In Callahan's second year he went immediately to rebuilding, and in so doing attempted to install an entirely new offense (because he'd just been routed by the architect of the old offense). Callahan lost many of the players at that point because they didn't see the sense in completely revamping something that had gotten them to the SB. When Callahan started to publicly insult them on top of that, and on top of the losing, he'd cooked his own goose.

Turner did absolutely nothing, determined not to upset anyone. He just took the pieces that they had, attempted to fit a few more in, and then provided no team concept and no direction.

Shell was determined, on the other hand, to prove that he was really an NFL HC that should never have been fired, and certainly should have been hired by someobody else. Shell attempted to pick up right where he left off, ignoring the changes in the organization, the players, and the fact that Walsh's limitations as OC was what got him fired in the first place.

And then Kiffin.

At about the point that Davis admitted he needed some help, I think he realized that none of the issues that gave rise to the Shanahan firing had ever really been resolved.

After that, he set about looking for the right GM, but couldn't find the one he wanted. He tested his son, but his son was not ready. But Cable, a long time observer of the Raiders was firm - "I won't do it without your help." That brings us to the present, with Davis burning the midnight oil.

1:41 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"BR"...

I also remember after that Shell II debacle it was agreed that the team needs to be completely dismantled and rebuilt from the ground up....Now looking around there are so many young new faces it's almost like that's what was done....Things seem a lot more positive at this point....No where's near as desperate as at the end of that "06" season....

Not to say we have turned it around but at least now there is a talented specialty core in whom we can base our hopes....And now there is a "HC" who appears faithful to the organization and a new set of "OC-DC"s on the staff and the talk is about teaching -n- fundamentals -n- togetherness....

PantyRaider....Pendulum Swings Upward!!!!/_

1:49 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Beware, Dr. Evil is lurking on the Grassy Knoll...

1:53 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"Dr Evil"...

Take aim and make your shot...Or was that 2 shots from different angles....

As history shows connecting the dots ain't easy but we could always use some help....I know you have an opinion...

PantyRaider....More The Merrier!!!/_

1:59 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

While I've never believed that Davis' lawsuits weren't legitimate, it is clear to me that litigation has been Davis' undoing.

Litigation is a double time job, and if you involve yourself to the extent Davis does, you have no time for anything else. At this point, I can speak from personal experience.

In 1980, when Davis began litigating, the team was strong and Davis had a lot of help. That help began diminishing with retirements, etc., through the mid '80s. Once that initial round of litigation was completed, by 1985, Davis was involved in countless battles with the LACC.

With that in mind, it may not have been Shell who let the OL degrade, it may have been Davis.

Within a couple of years Davis was planning a return back to Oakland, followed by more litigation against the NFL and the City of Oakland.

He was helped in the Gruden years by a strong back up staff, which departed along with Gruden. Since the beginning of Turner, Davis has never sufficiently returned his attention to the team.

Until, that is, he was forced into it by Kiffin and challenged by Cable.

Taking all of this into account makes me believe we are getting exactly the opposite of what many wanted to see. We are not getting the withdrawal of Al Davis. We are experiencing the return of Al Davis.

Still, the man is 80. A permanent GM will likely be in our future within the next year or two.

2:37 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Think about that. The man is 80, yet refuses to even provide a contingency plan for his ultimate removal as GM, Director of Scouting, Personnel Director and whatever other areas he directly oversees and that the Raiders are presently understaffed.

Somebody remind Davis he can still be the owner and hire people to help with these other critical positions in the organization.

Perhaps Davis is determined to have the Raiders fall flat on their faces when he can no longer function in the organization. Ironically, that fall wouldn’t be very far right now.

2:54 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

I don't know, nyraider. If I had a fifty year legacy to leave behind, I'd want to personally find the right person to carry it on and build from it.

I also don't know if it's a matter of not having a plan, or simply knowing the right time to implement it.

It appears to me that Davis had hopes that his son would carry it on, but his son doesn't seem suited to anything other than the business operations.

I honestly believe that he hoped Kiffin would fill that void. And I believe that Davis was genuinely disappointed that it didn't work out. For Davis to show that much vindictiveness, there has to be something more behind it than disappointment - like betrayal.

But Davis was scathing when he talked about trying to teach Kiffin about the legacy he was adopting. Kiffin simply had no interest at all in Raider history. On top of which he tried to get a college job after about game five of his first year. That indicates that Kiffin only wanted the Raiders on his resume.

And if Davis was hoping to hand off the legacy, and Kiffin responded the way he responded, I can understand why Davis is pissed and vindictive.

3:52 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Everyone wants to blame Al Davis completely in this matter...But my experience in life teaches me that there are usually 2 or more at fault if the matter is looked into...Not to totally excuse Al Davis but share the blame as it should be...

How can you know a mans heart when he speaks as a salesmen to get the job but he has ulterior motives in his head...Now as you age you will come to understand that some of the safeguards diminish and you just naturally become more vulnerable/gullible....The desire to fight for everything diminishes as a man tires....Realistically that can be seen to some extent across the board...

So that "Little Bitch" Lance does his homework and knows exactly what to talk about to an almost "80" year old owner who loves his teams glorious history....Now remember that other "Bitch" "FA" player who did the same and had ties to Lance....Hall....But he got run right after Lance and with damn good reason....

As "BR" pointed out and I touched on the simple reality is that after Gruden Abandoned Ship with the rest of Al's help he was left standing all alone at an advanced age holding a half empty bag of broken promises....Not a good position to be left in at his age....Everything he believed in and worked so hard for was now falling apart all around him...

So he tries but fails to be able to replace that staff with one that is working -n- lasting....Instead he just dug a deeper hole for his franchise to fall down into as "NYR" points out...

All the while those damn "Midget Minded Mediots" have played their never ending version of "Taps" over his death-bed and far too many have enjoyed that tune and joined in....

Now brothers there is a tremendous load upon the shoulders of Coach Cable and his staff and I sincerely hope he's up for the challenge because if he fails Al and this team could be headed for a deeper disaster than anything previously experienced....And we most likely go down with the ship...

PantyRaider....Writing On The Wall!!!/_

8:54 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

PR: No doubt. Cable has a heavy burden to get the Raiders out of the mud and on to the grass. The tide rises or falls with the leadership, growth, and talents of Cable AND Russell. A HC & QB have the type of responsibility to lead the franchise towards a beacon of hope. I would argue that the trust and bond that is developed between Cable and Russell is the key factor in it becoming a mutually beneficial relationship. Their careers are dependent upon each other.

9:15 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"CJ"...

Interesting points about the "Two-Headed Beast"...."HC"-n-"QB"...

So now we know why those "Midget Minded Mediots" have gone after "J-Rus" so aggressively and especially with the addition of Garcia...They want to spoil the pie before it's baked and served up for all of us to enjoy...

PantyRaider....Reject Their Vomit!!!!/_

11:54 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

BR:

I can’t believe that Davis set his sights on Kiffin someday taking over the Raiders. Kiffin was more or less an accidental hire after Steve Sarkisian blew off the job; then, Davis didn’t get his name right at the press conference. Hardly an endorsement for the future face of the Raiders.

But thank you for acknowledging that Davis’ actions were vindictive... and not in the best interest of the Raiders.

I would say, it seems pretty obvious that Davis requires somebody by his side for quite some time before he gives his trust to them. All the more reason this search should start sooner rather than later.

PR: Agreed. It takes two to tango.

6:23 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

One of the things we'll find out this season is whether Al Davis' penchant for speed merchants is living in a fantasy world or smart NFL football.

First off, the is NO doubt that enemy teams will stack the box to stop our running game. We will be continuously looking at at least 7 in the box, if not 8. Right away, that's going to give Miller a good year as it has for the last two.

But with a stout enough O-Line to protect JRuss long enough for receivers to get down field, this year he may well add more Wide Receivers to his mix. And we certainly have the fastest WR core in the league.

Every one of our current WRs has been clocked, at some point, below 4.4. Almost all of them, at some point, have been clocked below 4.3. One or two have even been clocked as fast as 4.25. We don't even need to consider McFadden's speed when he shifts into the flat or the slot.

Imagine, on first down, breaking the huddle in the I formation with Bush and McFadden as the running backs. The defense, quite naturally, breaks their huddle, stacking eight in the box. Then McFadden shifts to the slot, Bush shifts from FB to HB. Miller holds his position.

Play action... DHB and Higgins, for example, break deep on crossing post patterns, Miller covers the short center field... McFadden breaks to the sideline on a fly-pattern... Bush slides from his block at the last second for the dump, if needed... Yow.

The speed of the game in the NFL is fast. We have the potential to play faster.

2:07 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

http://www.raidershistory.net/index
.php?name=News&file=article&sid=40

A stroll down memory lane for H, Panty and me.

Events here are before most who visit this site were born.

3:45 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"BR"...

Thanks for the thread...These are great memories indeed....I will finish reading later but boy these pictures bring it back...

PantyRaider....We Desperately Need Something Now!!!!/_

4:03 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

BR:

With opponent's loading up on the LOS, play action pass should be a primary weapon in the Raiders offensive toolbook. There will be ample opportunities for the Raiders to unleash a potent passing attack ... as always, it comes down to execution.

6:57 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"CJ"....

Coach Cable went out and hired himself a "PGC" to take care of that aspect of the "O" and it will be his responsibility to design and instill those schemes and plays...If I understand correctly he was a top "OC" at a previous time..With the "Lambs" I think...

If he can bring to us any resemblance of that "O" with our weapons -n- versatility at the "RB"-"WR" positions we should be impressive to say the least...But I don't necessarily expect it out the gate...Maybe by week 4-5 after we warm-up on our "AFCW" foes and work out the bugs...Til than I expect we will be heavily run oriented and that team who gets our new "A" game will not be prepared for it as they crowd the line and get burned with the deep -n- intermediate "Air-Attack"...And than when they adjust we burn them again with our "Power-Running" up their gut and around their backs...

PantyRaider....Dreamer 0f Dreams!!!!/_

2:11 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

So, Barret Robbins caught his wife with another Raider a couple of days before the Superbowl, eh? That may have been what set him off. Does anybody here know who it was? And, don’t say Run Run Jones…



Now that's something I didn't know...Frankly...I think I'd have a little trouble getting it on with the wife of a man like Barret Robbins...Think "OJ" went off...Ha!...Could just imagine Robins going off....

PantyRaider....Nope! Nope! It Wouldn't Be Me!!!!/_

"Vick Watch"....Set to meet with NFLC within the next few days after his release the 10th....

5:46 AM  
Blogger H said...

Hello from Canada. Been on the road for a couple of days. Man, getting in and out of the U. S. is rough on honest people.

Take,

Prove it is what Tom Cable seems to be all about. He sat at a press conference in January and apologized to Raider Fans for stuff he wasn’t even involved in.

I agree, we had some of the worst on field performances last year. Cable manned up and said, “I know how to fix this,” and a few weeks later we started seeing performances the likes of which hadn’t been seen since ’02. Cable should have been 4-2 down the stretch and admitted he was responsible for the loss to the Chefs. This is a coach coaching the team, not a frat boy, a Jimmy Johnson recommendation or deer in the headlights guy staring at his clipboard.

Admit it, had Cable won the Chef game, he would have been 5-7 as an HC, and folks would be one hell of a lot more enthusiastic even with their disagreements over the draft.

He doesn’t go around with slogans like “I’m in”. His goal is to be 1-0 for the previous game day, be that Sunday, Monday, Thursday or Saturday. People say he was lucky and fell into the job. Bull, luck is preparation and timing. He paid his dues and his timing was impeccable.

By the way, I’m saying “Prove it” also, in my own fashion. Until he proves differently, I’m taking him at his work.

Grassy Knoll, are you sure you’re not the guy in the storm drain?

H

11:24 AM  
Anonymous Derick from Section 344 said...

RT,

Nice take, and I completely agree. Not too long ago I popped in my dvd of the AFC Championship game against the Titans. What struck me more than anything was the all the TIME Gannon had in the pocket. That unit on the O-line was the key to those teams successes. How many times in the last few years has a raiders QB really had any time to drop back and scan the field like Gannon did on a consistent basis? Lets hope the O-Line makes some serious strides this year because the Raiders won't win if they don't.

5:38 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"H"...

They will be what they be....In "Denial" until it's indisputable/undeniable that Al Davis -w- Tom Cable finally got it right...But than will there still be that "Negative" floating in the air waiting to be a "BombShell" any time the team fails a little....No Doubt!!!....

Than in "Denial" again when they are supporting but don't want to remember all the "Negatives" that were cast toward the organization during the past few months....

"Prove-It" works 2 ways....

To this point I have seen accusation upon accusation but very damn little in the way of proof....We have sucked and that's shown by that damn "Score-Board" -n- Stats...But this constant barrage of unfounded/unproven/unlikely assaults against the "MGP"/Organization/"HC"/History is totally rediculas/unrealistic/unreasoning/untruthful and lacks the basic elements that the Raiders have earned from us as Fans over the course of time like compassion/loyalty/faith/support....

"Denial" is to twist past history -n- stats while totally ignoring the documented proof in order to support a personal agenda/statement against the team....

PantyRaider....NO "Denial" We Sucked -n- NO "Denying" We'll Be Back!!!!/_

5:55 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Derick from Section 344....

Re: "OL" of the last "SB" run....

You are right that "OL" was doing a job with Barret Robins at "C" until the "SB" when it fell flat on it's face without him calling those Blocking-Assignments....His back-Up could not handle that Game-Time situation....

Now...It surfaces that just days prior to the "SB" Barritt caught another Raider player with his wife....We know he had a Melt-Down and failed to make that game but never knew why....So what's your take on that if it's true....

A player put in jeopardy the entire season and all that was accomplished as a "Team" for what...And than afterwards the team was put-off with Robins and nothing was evidently done about the other player????....

Personally....I would submit that player to an old-fashioned military style "Blanket-Party" by the entire team -n- the Fans....Talk about selling out your Team-Mates....

Does something about this story start to explain the way our team went into the "Dumper" so fast -n- for so long....What was the real cause of the instability we have seen....

PantyRaider....What A Way To Ruin A Season!!!!/_

6:17 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

The "Prove It" Era to me has 4 logical jumping off points;

(1) Defense: Prove that you can stop the run on a consistent basis.

(2) Defense: Prove that QB pressure/sacks is a priority by using the blitz as a vital tool.

(3) Offense: Prove that you have a dynamic, productive passing attack.

(4) Russell & Cable: Prove that you are capable leaders who will get the team on the right track through your deeds.

(5) Team: Prove that you are a playoff caliber team.

(6) Al Davis: Prove that you have franchise's best interest at heart by developing contingency plans to include the hiring of a GM sooner rather than later.

6:57 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Check that ...6 logical jump off points vice 4!

6:58 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

(0)Fan: Prove your Love-n-Loyalty to the team by your continued Support-n-Faith threw "Thick-n-Thin" remembering all that has been bestowed upon you as fans for several decades past well before you ever invested a single "Penny" of your own in this franchise's Dreams-n-Endeavours as this proud organization continues to invest in it's own future for you as well as for all the multitudes....

Please remember that we never made false promises to the effect that there would not be hard times dificult to deal with just as every sport franchise in the history of sports have had to go threw but we have promised to continue to work towards a bright and productive future where the "Greatness of The Raiders" will prevail and we shall most certainly do so....

He who endures to that end is the one who reaps his rewards most fully....Remembering as a warning example to you my brothers those before you who ran across that BayBridge only later to come crawling upon their bellies back across that very same bridge but those of us who "Stood-Fast" with our team no mater what the circumstances proclaimed....

"We are not the type who shrink back Baby".....

PantyRaider...I'm Totally Down With That GodFather -n- I'll Keep Promoting The Faith Bro!!!!/_

Now Who Will Stand-Up With Me???...

11:59 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Ding-a-Ling-Ling-Ling -n- a Root-Toot-Toot goes the Raiders' "Kool-Aid-Skiff" as it floats along port to port selling that most precious intoxicating -n- refreshing "Silver-n-Black Ale" that we have come to love and the price well just a mere token of our appreciation....

One more years service per gal...

Drink-Up Me Hearties Yo-Ho!!!...

PantyRaider....I'll Have A Double Portion And Commit 2 More Years Of Service To That Ship Yo-Ho!!!/_

Now Who Will Tip The Ale With Me????....

12:43 AM  
Anonymous memdf said...

I have not checked this site in a long time.

RT- I was at this game.

I remember one td run by Gannon where the closest colt jersy was in the stands.

7:34 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

This is for the fan who has too munch money and nowhere to spend it...

http://www.josportsco.com/list_team.asp?
NewSearch=True&TeamID=6000008

Like that commercial years ago with some dork who sneaks into a teams locker-room and tries to get off with a dirty jersey or two....Here you can buy it "Used" from a past game....

PantyRaider...Price Too High But Desirable!!!/_

8:32 AM  
Anonymous Arkansan Raider said...

Hah! Take THAT!

100.

---Jeff

8:42 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Take, whatever happened to your "News You Can't Use" feature?

Here's this:

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/sports/
football/Raiders-Fargas-a-Possible
-Camp-Cut.html

You see? This is how it starts. These idiots use other sports writers as a SOURCE!

JMac says something that we all know to be true. Fargas, AT SOME POINT, will fall behind Bush on the depth chart. But I don't think anyone expects to see one of the best examples of leadership CUT before some time after this season. Jerry clearly doesn't expect Fargas to be gone, merely to be demoted.

But the idiot who writes this article morphs Jerry's words into Fargas will be cut in training camp.

Not gonna happen. If Fargas isn't on the field this season, it will be because he's on the DL.

8:57 AM  
Anonymous tinfoil said...

Curious.

Rothlisberger accused of sexual violence.

If any Raiders player had had been accused of rape and other violence against women, would not ESPN's Sports Center, News, NFL Live and First Take have had a field day with the item.

But if the Rothlisberger news was ever mentioned I never saw it.

Rothlisberger gets a pass due to his favored-son status and ESPN has once again demonstrated its complete lack of journalistic integrity.

10:23 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

tinfoil

Your right just like they'll jump all over old news like Barret Robins who hasn't suited up sense "03" for anyone....But Than that was a key issue to the Raiders losing so it's always a "Fresh-Take" to those "Midget Minded Mediots"...

If it's negative against the Raiders it will get quoted and re-quoted and painted a different color and posted again and again as they fulfil their private agendas....Tear down Al Davis and everything he has accomplished....

PantyRaider....Why Read Their Crap!!!!/_

11:07 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Can you even begin to imagine what the press would be if JRuss was accused of rape?

The race card here would have nothing to do with it. The media will look for any opportunity to bash Davis around. Destroying Russell's career, in the process, would simply be blood sport.

12:00 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Look no further than across the bay....

Can you imagine what would have happened if Al Davis was the owner who was bribing a governor for a casino instead of Eddy DeBartilo....Ha!....Would it ever have stopped....Or Carmen Policy and their circumventing the cap cheating hearts....

Or those "Patsy" Cheatsters....If that was Al Davis or one of his coaches it would have cost a damn site more than just a 1st rd pick when they had 2 1st that year....

Something else I just learned a day or so ago....When John Elway was in the draft and refused to play for the "Colts" there was a trade put together to send him to the Raiders however the trade was "Vetoed" by the NFLC Roselle....Now hows that for some freakin mule shit....They didn't veto the trade to those freakin "Donko"s now did they....So this freakin shit goes back a long way before Al Davis ever started his legal assault against the NFL....

Just imagine what we could have been with Elway instead of Mark Wilson/Rusty Hilger/Jay Schroeder and the likes....With the talent at "RB"-"WR"-"TE"-"OL" and that "D" that we had how many "SB"s would we have potentially won during that period of time....I believe we had exactly Squat...

PantyRaider....Painful Memories!!!!/_

12:30 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Panty, the NFL has a history of vetoing Raider deals with QBs. We were the ones who had engineered getting Warren Moon from Canada, but the NFL vetoed and he wound up in Houston. We also had a deal for Vinnie Testeverde. Elway, I think, was just the first of many.

1:29 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Panty, the NFL has a history of vetoing Raider deals with QBs. We were the ones who had engineered getting Warren Moon from Canada, but the NFL vetoed and he wound up in Houston. We also had a deal for Vinnie Testeverde. Elway, I think, was just the first of many.

1:29 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Rothlisberger saved himself some bad press by making a definitive statement claiming his innocence and the outrageousness of the claim against him. Another factor is the length of time it took this woman to come forward and that no criminal charges had ever been filed.

I'm not saying a Raider would not have been torched by the press, but the circumstances seem to favor Big Ben.

On the other hand, the Raiders very rarely deny allegations that put them in a bad light. Sure, there’s not enough hours in a day to squelch all rumors, but why not the big ones that effect even the players?

Raiders Public Relations is an oxymoron, like jumbo shrimp.

2:59 PM  
Anonymous tinfoil said...

I stopped watching anything live on ESPN or NFL Network years ago due to the excessive commercials and promos.

I virtually gave up watching anything NFL related on ESPN period due to the continual Raiders bashing.

I agree that the Raiders have earned a bad rep in the PR area, but thats not an excuse for the continual storm of insults, inunendoes and half-truths that the Smirk City Boys at ESPN and NFL Network's latest ex AFC West player rain down on the Raiders.

4:34 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

I don't know, nyraider. Davis was pretty fast on the draw when Kiffin was claiming that Davis designs the defensive game plans.

4:38 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"BR"...

How -n- Why do they get away with this crap....It has definitely crippled our team by preventing us from gaining above average talent at the "QB" position....It's one thing to continue with the piss-poor calls against us by the "Zebra"s but this is totally inexcusable to me....

What could we have been with Warren Moon at the helm during his prime while we had what...Looking at what he did for Houston -n- Seattle and I think the "Vikes"....

PantyRaider...The NFLC's Suck -n- Al Should Have Sued The Bastards!!!!/_

6:18 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

There has been a lot speculated about the Raiders opening camp schedual -w- the meetings one full day and 2@days/4days..Now it comes out that they take a break for meeting one day and return to the 2@days..The "Midiots" and some NFL executives are trying to say the team waisted it's mini-camps and are now trying to instill a whole new "O"....

Guess what...It may be that the material from the "PGC" was not yet instilled and this is what will be worked on during those 4 double days of practice and the ones that follow...So what was worked on in the mini-camps may have been the run and pass "O" that they were already somewhat familiar with and to bring everyone up to speed and see what they have in their new pupils....If true I personally find that encouraging...It means we will have a full-plate instead of just a few simple pass-plays from a vanilla "O"....

Now during that time what could the "D" be working on....Now that could be very intriguing indeed...

PantyRaider....Spy-Glasses Please!!!/_

12:13 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

http://www.mikevick.com/


According to reports, after a three-hour meeting with Vick on Thursday, Goodell has tentatively decided to allow him to attend the opening of training camp next week.


Now there's speculation that Denver may be interested in signing him...

PantyRaider....Rather Play With Him Than Against Him!!!!/_

12:58 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

BR-

"Davis was pretty fast on the draw when Kiffin was claiming that Davis designs the defensive game plans."

What, he doesn’t? I think that jury is still out.

As others have pointed out, Davis takes credit when the D is good and removes himself when they suck.

So basically, the only time that the Raiders responded to media criticism was to protect Al Davis' ego?

Meanwhile, when the rumors of turmoil between Davis and Kiffin were boiling over and the fans were revolting (and even the players had no clue), the Raiders had nothing to say.

Brilliant marketing strategy.

As for Davis’ role with the D, both the Raiders’ and Browns’ defenses will be under the microscope this season to see if there’s any truth to that.

6:39 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"NYR"...

If and when the Raiders "D" is different this season than the last 5 and improved will you finally get off the "Al Davis Is responsible for everything bad about the defense" kick or will you continue to try to find some other reasons to bash him despite the obvious changes....

And I don't give a damn what "SOB" does in another city with another team under another "HC"s philosophy....He sucked big time as a Raider and that's evidenced and proven...."Score-Board" -n- Game Stats....

PantyRaider.....Give The GodFather A Freakin Break He's....Earned Every Bit Of It Over The Years!!!!/_

8:56 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

PR -

Yes, if the D is different this year, that will provide some evidence that Davis allows more autonomy to the D coaching than it appeared w/Ryan... although a “honeymoon” period is common between Davis and his new coaches.

Nevertheless, Davis claimed to be the architect of a good Raiders D, then denied that notion (as Blanda points out) when the same basic D turned sour. That lends itself to criticism.

To the second part of your question, correcting the D alone won’t correct the plethora of other issues which surround Davis and the Raiders.

It doesn’t change the fact that Davis is 80 and should get serious about hiring a GM and/or football exec(s) to transition his duties to others. Alternately, the Raiders could be a train wreck in waiting.

Unfortunately, the Raiders hierarchy is totally asymmetrical, and last year became so consumed by score-settling that the priority of winning was abandoned. I think we’re all anxious to see if that priority has shifted back. While it looks like it has a spark, there is much more work to be done.

As far as Davis “earning a pass,” how long should that pass last? Clearly, some have provided a longer rope than others; but, for me, the last six years has been rough and deserves serious and absolute attention.

9:58 AM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

The key part of any newly hired coach that joins the Raiders is the first year or realistically the first 8 games. This does seem to be a "honeymoon" period.

If the newly hired coach has success in this honeymoon period than it would be more likely for Davis to grant more autonomy.

If the coach struggles in this honeymoon period, the noose is tightened.

What I want to see more than anything in DC Marshall's first phase of employment is a dynamic, aggressive, unpredictable D that is a BIG part of the team's overall success.

2:59 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"CJ"-n-"NYR"...

Can we get a little more realistic here and look at the "HC" who as "Interim" "HC" already had his "Honeymoon" and was NOT successful by any stretch of the imagination so how is it now that he is being give so much latitude in his 2nd season leading this team....Seems to be a huge contradiction don't you think???...

"SOB" was never successful so when was his "Honeymoon" start-finish....From the appearance it was for all 5 seasons....And that one year under Shell his 3rd was acknowledged by Al Davis when he did not promote him to "HC" and said...

The "D" played well but not great

So where was this accepting the "D" as his own and than denial afterwards....I guess I missed that....Do you have a thread to it....

Not to mention that the direct testimony from "SOB" himself is that he ran that "D" NOT Al Davis....Nnamdi testified they really saw Al except maybe once a week at a practice but than as you recall his health took a turn downward and he had not been seen at all but somehow was still able to run that "D"....HOGWASH!!!!....

You refuse to accept the facts as stated by both coaches -n- players but are more than willing to believe the crap from some "Midget Minded Mediot" or some lousy "HC" who was in a fist-fight with the team because he wanted his daddy as "DC" instead of "SOB"...You take his denial of responsibility as gospel even though as you look around there is nothing creditable about the bastard past or present....

Now here's another one...The "RAT" was give full rain but was not successful by any stretch of the imagination as he was changing the entire appearance of the team but in his 2nd year when he told Shell that Al wanted him gone is when Al Davis learned of the magnitude of the problems and let him go....Now at any time did that X-"HC" ever claim he did not have control....He was fighting for his pay-check and talking shit against Al Davis but did he ever claim not to have authority...Did he say he only had the "O" and Al had the "D"....Come On....Get Real...

Where is the testimony of White/Gruden/Callahan/Turner/Shell not to mention the long list of "DC"s we have had working for this team....That does not exist and nor did it happen....If it were there than there would also be the facts to support it or do you think Al Davis is all powerful and shuts the moth of everyone who ever worked for him....

That "D" under Willie Shaw was NOT the same "D" of Gruden's last 2 seasons or Callahan's 1st so where is the consistency if it was always Al's "D" and where's the testimony that Shaw was not allowed to run his unit...There is testimony of squabbles between Shaw -n- Gruden about how to run the "D" and whether or not Charles Woodson would be allowed to play "O" as "WR"....Now where did that come from....Al was arguing against himself????....

Get Freakin Real....This is as rediculas as searching for the "Missing-Link" of the Sasquatch/BigFoot....

"NYR"....I don't put any time-frame on such qualities as respect/admiration/loyalty/faith/love...Those are enduring qualities so if their there they will continue as verses if their not there they can't be bestowed upon you by another....So in answer to you question....

Onto Death Do Us Part....

Simple fact is...I love the Raiders as I love the GodFather who created them for me....Past -n- Present...

So getting upset with what I saw on the field happens but doesn't change how I feel with respect to the team/owner/organization....It does however change how I feel about individual players/coaches who are representative of that team...If they failed to do their freakin jobs than I put the blame right where it belongs NOT on the one who hired them other than the fact that it was a mistake to bring them in....Period....But Players/Coaches are as unpredictable as Stocks....They were down and came up or they were up and fell down....Some even rise again as with "NO-Moss"....

PantyRaider...If It's True The Evidence Will Overwhelmingly Support It As Fact!!!!/_

9:09 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

PR:

I guess the term "honeymoon" period is in the eye of the beholder. To act like it doesn't exist is foolish. I would argue that a "honeymoon" period exists to some extent for every team in the NFL as it relates to newly hired coaches. Whether you want to admit it or not, newly hired coaches are sized up and evaluated in their first year of employment in regards to any new systems or philosophies installed. Of course there are MANY, MANY variables to this topic but let's keep it simple.

The best time for a newly hired coach to push for some type of change is in their first year. To cite your examples, let's take a look:

Cable: He was an interim HC cleaning up Kiffin's mess and make the best of a difficult situation. He wasn't pushing for any major changes and I would argue that this upcoming season is his true "honeymoon" period not last year.

Ryan: In year 1, Ryan switched the Raiders to a 3-4 D. It failed miserably for many reasons but the point is that this was Ryan's "honeymoon" period. Why Ryan was kept around for 4 additional years is an argument for another day but clearly year 1 was Ryan's honeymoon period. If, and this is a HUGE if, Ryan was successful with the 3-4 in year 1 the landscape would have been much different in year 2 etc.

Rat: He went 7-9 in year 1. Year 2he was fired after 4 games. Because Rat was pushing for changes in year 2 and the Raiders were struggling, he was shown the door. Would some of Rat's ways of doing things be tolerated if the Raiders were more successful? Probably.

The gist of my points about the "honeymoon" period are two-fold;

#1 Year 1 is a critical year for a newly hired coach to be successful with any type of changes to the "status quo".

#2 The honeymoon period is short lived if and when the newly hired coach isn't successful.

Winning ultimately is what all of this about. When a coach is successful with his practices, philosophies, sytems etc it in turn gives him more leeway.

A perfect example of this is Gruden who went to the west coast offense. Since Gruden was successful early on and as the Raiders gained more traction, he was given more authority and latitude to stay the course.

9:35 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"CJ"...

I took this...

If the coach struggles in this honeymoon period, the noose is tightened.

To mean that Davis will start to reduce his approval and further restrict his hand....Now maybe I took something wrong here but we don't see any evidence to that happening....In fact just the opposite....

Cable has had 12 games already coupled with his moves in the off-season so I think he has already gone threw the test or "Honeymoon"...If one looks at his record as a whole he "Sucked"....He only looks worthwhile if you concentrate your analysis upon the end of the season as there appeared to be improvement at several levels...So evidently Al Davis is doing just that and looking at things which we are just not privileged to behind closed doors....

Cable did worse in the beginning with the same players on the field if that's at all possible...It was after his initial struggles that he started to look like a "HC" candidate but NOT a top-tier "HC" in the NFL....The big picture dictated that "Continuity" was of greater value than starting all over from scratch again with an un-known commodity to this team....They already know Cable and he knows them....

Otherwise I was campaigning for the guy who went to the "Jets"...."SOB"-Rex -w- "SOB"-Ryan as "DC" under his intelligent brother's tutelage....This way we have the familiarity and the renewed aggression all in one....I will watch to see how the better half of the "Twins" performs this season....I expect it to go well for him and dread that we have to play against it....

Gruden...Really....Are you now saying his "O" was successful early on...I think I feel a need to dispute that but will not attack it too aggressively...

The "D" made huge strides under the direction of Willie Shaw while that "O" was inept at best...It was that "D" that kept us in games and gave us the opportunity to finish at 8-8 two seasons in a row...Mediocor...That "O" never become productive until the addition of Gannon in Gruden's 2nd year...

Your absolutely correct Gruden was give further latitude despite that weak-assed showing by his "O" even to the point of running off the "DC" who kept him in games and replacing him with another choice at "DC"...So he was rewarded according to the play of the whole team and not according to one unit such as his "O"...Now how could that be sense everyone knows it was Al Davis who drew up the game plans for the "D" the last 4 decades or so...And why allow the "HC" to run-off the "DC" of a unit that was playing at a top 5-10 level...It fell as a result as the record shows...

PantyRaider....Difficult To Say!!!/_

"97"...."0"-#13 -w- Bugle @ "HC"
"D"-#30

"98"...."O"-#18 -w- Gruden @ "HC"
"D"-#5 -w- Shaw @ "DC"

"99"...."O"-#5 -w- Gannon @ "QB"
"D"-#10

"00"...."O"-#6
"D"-#17 -w- ????? @ "DC"

"01"...."O"-#7
"D"-#18

"02"...."O"-#1 -w- Callahan @ "HC"
"D"-#11

Seems like Callahan ran Gruden's "O" better than he did....Even the "D" improved....

4:37 AM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

PR: Gruden's offense did struggle in his maiden year but the team was competitive plus the foundation was laid under his new system of the WCO.

Having top 10 offenses in year 2,3,4 were a product of Gannon joining the fold in the WCO AND Gruden being given the latitude to acquire additional vets.

As far as Cable, his "first" year was an aberration. Davis was fully aware of the fact that Cable had a big mess to clean-up and had to learn on the fly. Cable said in the offseason that BIG changes under his interim watch wouldn't have been wise. This interim year was to see if Cable had the potential to take hold of the team. The improvement at the end of the season sealed the deal and also allowed for stability. IMO, 2009 is the season that Cable needs to make his mark and prove he has the right stuff to carry this team forward. These are some of the key things that I believe Cable needs to be accountable for;

* Improvement of Russell
* Improvement in passing attack
* Improvement in play calling
* Better use of his RBs
* Last but not least ... more wins

11:37 AM  
Anonymous Arkansan Raider said...

I've found our new tackling coach.

My Facebook status tonight:
Quote
Jeff Henig
is winding down for bed after getting hit by a deer on the way home from the jail. Oh yeah, this deer is gonna' be an NFL tackling coach. Perfect pursuit angle. Perfect form tackling. Perfect hitting motion. Perfect blind side anticipation. Took my bicycle's wheels right out from under me, and I was bouncing on the trail pavement before I even knew I'd been hit. And it got up and looked me in the eye and laughed.
/Quote

It actually just about took the wind out of me, too. Gooseneck missed my solar plexus by about two inches.

And someone tell the President I've got some skin in the game. Specifically, on the pavement back on that trail...

---Jeff

11:17 PM  
Blogger H said...

Dang Arkansas, you're going to have to start carrying a .306 with you on your bike.

Blanda,

My memory of us getting Elway was the deal had been laid out but the Ponies wanted Howie Long as part of the deal, so Al pulled the plug.

We did have a deal with Warren Moon and the league voided it and awarded Moon to Houston.

H

5:14 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"CJ"....

I fully agree that Cable needs to prove himself this season after being allowed to hand pick almost his entire staff and rid the team of the "Un-Desirables" such as Hall....Also he has been allotted the type of players he desired in the draft and in "FA"s....

However...I don't view it at all as the typical "Honeymoon" that a coach would normally go threw....I believe that has already taken place and he has proven himself under some very dificult circumstances and built a very good working invironment with the ownership and the players which in itself is a huge accomplishment....Now what he has to do is settle in and continue to learn the job and make progress which I personally believe he will do very well with the type of people whom he has surrounded himself with....

I don't expect a season of "500" or below....I'm expecting and anticipating a our 1st winning season sense that terrible "SB" loss some 6 seasons ago....And if we don't take the AFCW outright then we are a very close 2nd....Anything short of that will be a personal disappointment for me and I think also for Coach Cable and the team not to mention the "MGP"....

PantyRaider...Bold Predictions -n- Expectations!!!/_

7:15 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Why is it so quiet out there the day befor reporting to camp???/_

9:40 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

new coordinator John Marshall has not been allowed to share his vision with fans or the media, even with talk he might give All-Pro cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha the freedom to switch sides of the field to always cover No. 1 receivers. "He's got a few more coverages than we've had in the past," Asomugha said recently, "so he might be able to use that." Might be able to use more coverages? Oh, boy. Stay tuned.

9:53 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

The Raiders "D" was #27 but was #2 in the AFCW behind only "SD" who was #25 NFL....

On the other hand our "O" was the worst in the AFCW....

The "Donko"s "O" will not be anywhere near what it was last year and their "D" could be even worse....

"KC" may suffer the same way...

"SD" is hoping to rebuild their "D" but the team has grown older and is suspect on both sides of the ball....

So the question is how much improvement by the Raiders "O" -n- "D" will it take for us to win the division....

PantyRaider....In Our Sites!!!!/_

10:10 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

We should be able to win nine games in this division.

Eight victories (just three more than we won last year under awful circumstances) is the bare minimum of acceptable wins in my book.

One more could put us over the top, since eight wins won the division last year.

11:20 AM  
Blogger H said...

Panty,

We're waiting for the first camp reports.

Speaking of Nnamdi:

"It’s great working for him (Al Davis). First of all, he doesn’t come out all the time. People always want to know if he’s always at practice. He’ll come out every now and then, maybe once a week, just to see how the team is playing, or see how the team is preparing, but Al is a guy who wants to win, and I think that’s what gets guys going. You’re looking for a guy who wants to win so badly, and he’ll go whatever lengths he has to get that job done.

Nnamdi"

H

11:21 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Breaking news is that Vick has been reinstated, and can play this year, perhaps as early as October.

I certainly don't want to see him in Napa. But he'll play somewhere in the NFL, I have no doubt.

12:38 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I don't know what the fascination is with Vick and the Raiders. That would be a huge mistake IMO, and a step backwards from the otherwise sensible acquisitions that have been made this year.

Just say "no" to Michael Vick.

3:02 PM  
Blogger H said...

Take, NYRaider,

Something we can definitely agree on. Cable knew Vick in Atlanta. I'm fairly sure he wouldn't want him.

It's only a guess on my part, but Daniel Snyder just might take a chance on him. Hall is up there and he is big buds with Vick.

Right now it's just not something we need. Or anytime for that matter.

H

5:59 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Believe it or not, I think the Bills will be the team that signs Vick. Owner Wilson seems to be swinging for the fences this offseason and TO is already lobbying for Vick.

IMO, for the Raiders to turn the corner this year, the 2 areas that need to be improved the most are;

(1) Run D
(2) Passing attack

If I'm not mistaken, we were ranked #31 in each category last season.

6:05 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Vick...

I still want him as that "Slash" player where he could absolutely excel and as needed depth at the "QB" position where we also need to answer some questions...

Garcia...Age 40....Is anything left and for how long...More of an interim type addition....

Frye....Same draft as Walter but showed more evidence as a "QB" prospect but was not the answer in for the "Dawgs" so what will he be for us....

Vick won't be needed on the field for more than say 5-10 plays/game but those could be very exciting plays not only for him but as a decoy that breaks "McFab" or "DHB" or Bush looses for a huge gain and possible score...Meanwhile he learns the "O" and gets ready as the #2 "QB" next season....

My fear is that now reportedly the "Donko"s may be in the market which means we end up playing against him....We already know we have trouble stopping the run...Now what happens if they get a "QB" with legs to run circles around us and open-up everything else on the freakin field....

PantyRaider....Security Blanket!!!/_

6:47 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

PR:

For the right team and right cirucumtances, one can make a fairly coherent football based argument for bringing Vick on board to play 5-10 snaps a game and act as an emergency QB.

However, when it comes to the Raiders and Vick, "no, absolutely not, pass, no thanks, no way, good luck somewhere else."

Our team is in no position to take on the circus-like atmosphere and media distractions that Vick will create. We need to focus on becoming a competitive, disciplined, improved team.

Also, from purely a football standpoint, Vick makes no sense for the Raiders. We have 2 solid back up QBs in Garcia & Frye.
We have 2 "slash" type players in McFadden and Bush. We have young WRs who need to be developed on the field w/o Vick taking away precious snaps. On top of that we have Cable in his first year w/o the interim tag. The last thing Cable needs as he tries to make his mark is to be asked a hundred times a day about Vick.

7:06 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"CJ"....

All good points but I don't concern myself with the same issues as you....

#1) Coach Cable seems very adept at shaking lose anything those "Midget Minded Mediots" attempt to say and will just opt to prove it on the field of play...Enough said....

#2) Distractions -n- the like are all a part of our rich and glorious history and don't concern me in the least if a player is willing to do his job on the field when called upon....And that's the key issue here....Will Vick make a concerted effort in his second chance with the NFL and his new team that gives him that chance...I think "YES" he will because he finally appreciates the opportunity he has and will make the very best of it with something to prove and that's the type of Old-Time "Misfit" the Raiders excelled with in the past....Something to prove -w- the heart -n- commitment -n- talent to get it done....

#3) Yes we have good talent at the "RB" position and depth at the "WR"s as young developing players BUT sense when would a team become self-limiting by saying....

We already have and wouldn't want to add another weapon....

Sounds like "SD" as they fail to improve and NOT somewhere I would want my team to go....The more weapons you have in your arsenal the better....You can now pick -n- chose where and when to use them and the "D" is the one who has to struggle to contend with it...

PantyRaider....Different Perspective!!!/_

8:26 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

PR: I respect your opinion but I totally disagree;

#1) Coach Cable seems very adept at shaking lose anything those "Midget Minded Mediots" attempt to say and will just opt to prove it on the field of play...Enough said....

No, not enough said. Cable is an unproven commodity. He simply doesn't need the headaches, distractions, and media avalanche that Vick will bring on.

#2) Distractions -n- the like are all a part of our rich and glorious history and don't concern me in the least if a player is willing to do his job on the field when called upon....And that's the key issue here....Will Vick make a concerted effort in his second chance with the NFL and his new team that gives him that chance...I think "YES" he will because he finally appreciates the opportunity he has and will make the very best of it with something to prove and that's the type of Old-Time "Misfit" the Raiders excelled with in the past....Something to prove -w- the heart -n- commitment -n- talent to get it done....

I'm not worried as much about Vick doing his job. What I'm worried about is how his prescence affects the other 52 men on the roster and ultimately, the team as a whole. In my view, what he would add in terms of production is limited while the other stuff associated with the signing would be another circus like last year with Kiffin. Thanks but no thanks. Let's concentrate on Raider football and not PETA, ESPN, and the daily Vick commotion. If, and this is a HUGE if, we weren't coming off the absolute worst stretch of football the past 6 seasons, maybe I'd feel different about the signing.

#3) Yes we have good talent at the "RB" position and depth at the "WR"s as young developing players BUT sense when would a team become self-limiting by saying....

We already have and wouldn't want to add another weapon....

I have nothing against adding another weapon per se, just not Vick. How about adding a veteran DT? How about giving our core young talent the reps. to develop? Whatever plays you had with Vick in mind, just replace it with McFadden and Bush ... not so hard, is it?

10:30 PM  
Blogger H said...

What Calico said.

H

4:40 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

We don't know what to do with the weapons we have. How and why would we add Vick to the mix?

As Calico said, I'd rather see Cable open up the playbook and give McFadden and Bush more opportunities (even trick plays), than to see Vick get any opportunity.

PR, your into to stats. Remind us how many TDs McFadden threw in college. I'll guarantee it's a higher number than Vick has thrown in the last year plus.

6:09 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"NYR"...

Your on....Vick played "Prison Football" so no doubt had several "TD"s added to his stats...Now how foolish was that one....

"CJ"-n-"H"....

Before you worry about the effect upon the roster take a look at what the players say and also the majority of Raider fans who have voted and others too for that matter....

Over 60% of the NFL Fans who voiced an opinion said bring him back but an overwhelming amount of the players speak in favor of his return including our present roster...The Raider fans who have expressed an opinion recently amounted to a 75-80% vote for his return to the NFL....And to that "J-Rus" and most of the roster who have spoken....The exceptions are only a few but get most of the attention in order to foster a point by those "Mediot"s.....

Now as for the "Mediot"s and the Raiders....Sense when have they had a voice in anything we do....

"Us against the world" is the slogan that's been followed for several decades and that includes against those damn "Mediot"s and "PETA" if they want a piece of us too....As if they would even consider bringing it to the field or for that matter to the stadium...Talk about getting "Punked"....I could guarantee it....

If anything we could use the fuel to get "Fired-Up" again like the old-days....Bring back that hateful spirit...It's about time this team had something to fight about and nothing like fighting for one of your own....

And last but not least...How about adding the weapons which are available....Do you see a quality "DT"-"DE" "OT" worth going after....We just added the best "DE" we could get our hands on in Ellis....And now consider the money involved....If Vick signs it wont Break-da-Bank like that "DT"-"OT" if he were available....He is a bargain at this point with tremendous potential and a past "PB"-"QB"....Now what "PB" "DT"-or-"OT" were you referring to....That is not a legitimate argument if the opportunity doesn't exist....

One more point....Coach Cable....When did you here him voice an opinion against Vick's return or worries about coaching him....As noted they are familiar with each other and might just work well together....Who knows....

PantyRaider...Unjustified Fears!!!/_

6:42 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

http://www.dailypress.com/topic/chi-28-vick-
destinations,0,603729.story

Now there appears to be several teams considered as possible destinations for Vick....The Raiders are only one of them....Here is the short-list....

"NE"....
"Fish"...
Raiders...
"Jags"....
"Bills"....
"PusyCats"...
"SadFran"....
"Skins"....
"Donko"s....

All in need of "QB" help or depth and not likely afraid to make a gamble....

Could there really be this much interest....

PantyRaider....Most Likely!!!/_

7:00 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

1/3 of the NFL is in need of "QB" help....Go figure....So if there is a quality player out there his services will be desired by someone regardless of the baggage...

7:04 AM  
Blogger H said...

Panty,

I got no problem with him coming back to the NFL. He's done his time. I just don't want him on our roster. He's not that good in the locker room and is not very fan friendly. At least he wasn't while in Atlanta. He and DeAngelo Hall were good buds, similar attitudes. You saw how well Hall worked out.

I really hope, for his sake, that Tony Dungy will have a positive influence on him. The fact that a guy almost 30 needs a mentor is troublesome in itself. I just don't believe we need him or the media circus that will accompany him.

We have a lot of good young weapons on offense. Let's use them and leave the roster spot Vick would occupy for OL, DL or some other need.

H

8:05 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

The Raiders have demonstrated a complete inability to manage high-profile players with known character issues, such as Randy Moss and DeAngelo Hall. The organization's leadership structure is just too vague to contain and motivate these types of personalities.

Vick would just be more of the same, in my opinion. The gain in talent would be more than offset by the drain in energy, focus and team spirit that I believe Vick would cause.

I think he might thrive in a place like New England or Miami, where they have a firm discipline structure in place. But not here.

8:54 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"RT"-n-"H"....

Fill me in here because I've lost something in translation....

How did Alzado thrive here...Sistruk...the Tuze...the Snake....The Stork....and 100 other misfits we have had on our team without that "Discipline" structure in place....When did we ever have that "Discipline" that other teams talk about...

Madden said he had only 2 rules...

#1) Show up for meetings on time and pay attention....

#2) Give me all you got on the field when I tell you to....

Now does that sound like a "Disciplined" situation...

The bottom line is if a player was willing to lay it all on the line for the team he had a home here....Now you are naming the 2 players who were not at all willing to lay anything on the line for the team here as examples of why others will fail....That just doesn't wash in reality....

Moss laid-down and openly said so and Hall refused to play as directed and cost the team as a result while running his mouth in the locker-room....Now the fact that Vick -n- Hall were friends on the same damn team means absolutely nothing at all...Was hall selling Vick the "Dawgs" or something....What was their involvement off the field....

Most of the team was friends with Moss as well as with Porter now does that make all of them problems on the roster....They voted the creep "TC" for crying out loud....So by association they were just like him....Bull-Shit....

Make a better argument that sticks...Something more realistic like....????....

I guess it's just a personnel issue....If you were totally disgusted by his acts than you don't want to be associated with him as being a Raider....I can understand that....But I don't feel at all the same as I have stated here in depth as to why so I wont go threw that again....I understand it was very annoying to some....But Damn....Some of the unsupported/unrealistic arguments that some of you come up with to support your feelings are just rediculas....It's just too damned easy to argue against them....

And as for our past 6 year record...Now is that the result of having Moss for 2 seasons and Hall for 1/2 season....Are you going to start pointing those fingers...And how the hell would it equate to anything like "Lance"....He would be a back-up "QB"-Slash player with absolutely NO governmental power over anybody at a low salary coming off a long suspension so who's going to go running to him for directions....He's not a "HC" is he....He's a re-instated player who is given a chance to go out and prove himself or he's fired and he's on probation with the NFL so that makes him about the lowest player on the "Totem-Poll"....

PantyRaider....Screw What The Damn "Mediot"s Print!!!/_

9:45 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

PR - of course you have a credible source to substantiate Vick's TD passes while in prison, right? Even if he played and you do have numbers, I don't believe anyone will be adding those stats to his career totals. Just a guess.

What can Michael Vick do for the Raiders?

It would be totally different if we needed him as a starter. But to bring him in as a 3rd QB is a huge risk in terms of the media attention (overshadowing talented roster players that deserve the spotlight) and possible distraction to what, if any progress the Raiders have made this off-season.

The best case is that he sits on the bench and behaves himself.

Why do we need that?

10:16 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said Monday that Vick can immediately take part in preseason practices, workouts and meetings and can play in the final two preseason games — if he can find a team.

Once the season begins, Vick may participate in all team activities except games, and Goodell said he would consider Vick for full reinstatement by Week 6 (Oct. 18-19) at the latest

So he has to do a lot of proving for almost 3 months on a teams roster before he ever plays a down in the regular season and draws that Pay-Check....With this hanging over his head he will be forced to sign a minimal contract with several incentives and also several restrictions....If he screws-up it will be his last and the other leagues may not even take him than....

So from all realistic indications this is going to be a player who is focused and determined and hopefully very grateful to the team that extends him that new opportunity....

PantyRaider...Shelter For MisFits!!!/_

10:16 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

PantyRaider, those old Raiders teams thrived because (1) there was a strong discipline structure in place and (2) despite their eccentricities, their football heart was never in question.

Do you recall any of those guys dogging it like Moss? Laughing on the bench during a loss like Porter? Getting regularly torched like Hall? Killing dogs? I don't.

They were crazy, yes, but they were disciplined when it came to football.

Blanda himself says that Mr. Davis hasn't been sufficiently involved in recent years, despite his dual role as owner and GM. Cable is entering his first full season as head coach of the team, unproven and finding his way.

That is quite a bit different than the highly involved and proven tandem of Madden-Davis of the '70s, who could exert their own curious brand of discipline onto the team. How long do you think the antics of Porter or Moss would have lasted back then? I'd give it a half hour.

Also, it's a different era. The game is more complex and much faster. You can't get away with carousing and goofing off like they did in the past. You can't get away with not working out in the offseason, at least not if you want to keep pace with the competition. You can't threaten to take away a player's livelihood for dogging it, because free agency and accumulated wealth have tipped the balance of power.

The best approach is to create a team composed of high-character players with elite talent. Once you have that in place (like the Patriots), then you can maybe integrate a Moss or Vick without having them undermine your efforts.

10:22 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"NYR"....

Here is the thread but it doesn't tell if he ever scored...But I think it's an easy assumption that he did often enough....And your right his stats wont be published on the NFL sheets anymore than a players college stats would be....Hell....A player like Moon or Flutie or Garcia don't even get their "CFL" stats to count for anything....

It was just a joke because I took your challenge as one....

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/
2008/04/05/2008-04-05_michael_vick_playing_prison_football.html

PantyRaider...."TD" "Pass-DMc"!!!!/_

10:31 AM  
Blogger H said...

Panty,

Those players you mentioned were characters, not people of bad character. Vick has shown to be the latter. While they were somewhat loose and un-conforming to the NFL mainstream during that time, they did show up on time, took practice seriously and played like hell on Sunday and were team oriented. They practiced self discipline when it came to their jobs.

Vick is not. I live in Atlanta. He was very self centered and blamed everyone else for his problems. Those are very hard personal traits to change. The man was a phenomenal talent, but he is wasting it.

We are already the Russell/McFadden/Bush/DHB/Cable experiment. I don’t want to add a Vick experiment and all the inherent media hits that will accompany it to that mix. We have set sail with this crew. Let’s not turn around and head back to port just yet.

H

10:57 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"RT"....

You have stated some strong arguments about the changes that have taken place from those old days so I give you that....BUT...

Moss/Porter/Hall are not anything like the "MisFits" of old in any stretch of their imaginations....They had NO heart and No commitment to anything except themselves....So they aren't realistic examples of a problem player who has re-committed himself to the game as Vick will now have to do if he's going to survive....If Not....It's a Long Drop with a Short Rope for him and he's forever gone....

So here we make 2 different assumptions...Yours is that he is what he is and ya don't change a tigers stripes....Mine is that he is now in Survivor-Mode and will by law have to fully commit to a team in order to survive and therefor will not be at all what he was in the locker-room or on the field or off and come at a bargain price....

I'm not saying here that he is repentant for his acts....I'm saying he's committed now because there's no longer a free-ride....Now he has to go out and earn it....Take it....And hang his head while he's doing it or he's hit with the "Red-Flag" and he's out so very little celebrating or self-exaltation's permitted....

That's the type of position some of those old-time "MisFits" were in...They had wore out their welcome at home and now were left in the Raiders Gutter....Lamonica was one of those so he was traded to the Raiders because his services were no-longer desired by his team despite his obvious talents....He re-committed and found a new home with the Raiders....

None of us know Vick personally so we can only make our personal judgements about him past and present....I just as usual come at it from a positive perspective looking for the good and acknowledging there was some bad and a "Shadow" that follows him....But that could be a positive if viewed properly....

PantyRaider....Difference In Perspective!!!!/_

11:06 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"H"....

You may be more familiar with Vick than me so I give you that....

But as regards some of those players who were Raiders back when they were farther from the center than was generally known...But back than we didn't have the "Mediot"s reporting everything from their waist-baskets so things could just slip by....Also the rules of the game were totally different so as Madden said he just Turned-Them-Loose and it was hell to pay for the opposition....

But your right...They were committed to the game and to the team as family....But that was something learned after creating problems elsewhere for some of them so I personally see Vick in that same light now...."Romo" was one of those types and flourished with this team just 6 seasons ago...

Alzado had problems in Denver and also in Cleveland....Attitude problems that the coaches weren't willing to put up with but he excelled as a Raider....He was allowed to be himself which he was not in Denver where he was constantly disciplined and held in restraints being all about team image....The "Tuze" was another one as was Ben Davidson and if I remember correctly the "Stork" had problems with the "Fish"....

On a 53 man roster 1 player has very little effect unless there is a reason for other players to follow his bad lead....As in the case with Porter when the team was losing horribly and the players were confused about their assignments....He also had Moss at his side as "TC"....I don't see that situation here this season at all and Vick would not be "TC"....

PantyRaider....A Different Scene!!!/_

11:32 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

For instance look at a different time in Raiders history....

Chester McGlockton developed into a "Cancer" but was only one man and the team at that time was not a ripe field for dissention to grow...He was traded and that was the end of it....

Marcus Allen also became a "Cancer" but here again one man was not going to disrupt an otherwise good team....

But when you look at that team under Shell II it was very ripe for desertion and with a couple "WR"s like Porter -n- Moss that's all it took to ignite an consuming fire amongst the players....Rebellion...

I don't believe that environment is the same today as shown by Hall last season....Hall alienated himself from the roster and others spoke out against him not against the "IHC" for running him off....I believe this season we are in an even better atmosphere than the end of "08"....

PantyRaider....Ripe Soil For Growth!!!/_

12:00 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

PR:

What does Vick bring to the table that we don't already have?

Is he a possible starting QB? No.
(see Russell)

Is he a possible backup QB. No.
(see Garcia)

Is he a better WR prospect than Walker, Shillens, JLH, DHB, Murphy, Watkins? No.

Is Vick more ready and able to be a "wild cat" player than McFadden or Bush. No.

McFadden and Bush already know are playbook, have been to OTAs, etc.

As I stated yesterday ...

Any play (and we are only talking about a few plays per game at the very most) that you imagine Vick making just replace that vision with McFadden or Bush.

12:59 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

PR - stats from college, CFL, AFL or NFL are all credible career stats. Prison stats are not.

I'm a fan of Vick (for his football skill) and I'm happy for his reinstatement (which I agree with), but I do not want to see him on the Raiders.

2:07 PM  
Blogger H said...

Panty,

Yep, Alzado had attitude problems elsewhere. So did the Tooz. But, attitude problems can be caused by other things, like coaches demanding you be something you are not.

I knew a coach once who thought the way to improve the team was to make all the players work on their weaknesses. The players got tired of constantly working on things they weren't good at. That coach never had a winning season.

After three years in comes a new coach who worked them on what they did best and got them to mesh as a team. It was a high school team and three seasons later they were ranked number one in the state. Change in atmosphere and approach. It was the local team where I live now. I try and go to the home games since the stadium is three miles from the house, and daughter of H was in the band during the lean years.

Vick is or was night and day different from those guys of the 70's and 80's.

He may have come to Jesus as far as the NFL is concerned. I just don't think he brings enought to the table for the risk to be worthwhile.

Those guys in the day came to the Raiders because they knew it was their last chance AND they wanted to win. All you have to do is look at that film of the tears on Alzado's face and then see the video of Vick running off the field giving the finger to the home fans to see the difference between them and Vick.

Vick wants a job first, winning is secondary.

H

2:52 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"H"...

Yup!!!....That attitude could make a difference....I don't believe it to be sincere at the present but it took time for Alzado to develop that heart for this team so the question is....

Is it possible/probable....

PantyRaider....Nothing Ventured Nothing Gained....Take The Shot!!!/_

3:03 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

The "Vikes" could now be added to that list sense Favre is remaining retired...

9:07 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

http://www.raiders.com/Common/
Article.aspx?id=65916

Take a look at our new blocking "FB"....He may be old but this guy really looks the part....Nice to have him on the team.....

PantyRaider....Picture Worth A Thousand Words!!!!/_

9:15 PM  
Blogger H said...

Panty,

The bottom line for me is this. We have a young team with talent and a big upside in that talent. Why bring in someone who would potentially take a roster spot from one of those players or take playing time from one of guys you are trying to develop?

Is Vick better than our third option at QB? Yes. But, if it turns out multiple teams are interested in him, what would be the cost? We’re not talking about picking up someone from the waiver wire or the trash heap of a losing team like Plunkett. This is a guy who has been a lightning rod for bad things his entire career.

In the day we could afford to take a chance on some of those "characters". Right now we don't have that luxury.

We were burned by Moss, Jordan and Hall. We are on the right path for now. Let’s see what we have before we start picking up missing pieces or nice to have players.

H

5:17 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"H"....

There may be a "Roster-Exemption" for Vick sense he can't suit up for 1/2 of the pre-season and not available until the 5th week of the regular season....So until he is available the exemption should apply....But of course if it's the Raiders we won't get one....We will jest get a penalty....

Which brings me to the only real reason to shy away from him....The "Zebra"s who will no doubt take their fare share of hits on the guy every time he makes a play....Especially if those gains were for the Raiders....So fear of the "Yellow" is a legitimate reason in my mind....That's the way the NFL will appease "PETA" and the other crying public who just want to see punishment....

Add to that the new reason for the "Haters" to feed upon as their #'s grow....But in reality I would still pull the trigger....

It seems as though some teams are taking themselves out of the running early on....The "Fish" -n- "PussyCats" have spoken as have the "Vikes" while the "BlackBirds" blow smoke as if they were interested....But the phone has not rung as of yet according to the reports....He's getting hungrier by the minute....

PantyRaider....Tick! Tick! Tick! Tick! Please Somebody "Talk"!!!!/_

6:55 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Just checking in.

Work has cranked back up and my father's in the hospital. I should have some more time again next week.

12:07 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

No on Vick. We don't need the distraction. And the distaction would be massive - especially on the Raiders.

12:08 PM  
Anonymous Arkansan Raider said...

Hope your poppa gets well soon, BR. I'll be prayin' for him.

---Jeff

2:37 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Transactions report up-dated @ raiders.com

07/29/2009

WR Arman Shields Waived (failed physical)
WR Louis Murphy Signed (D4-09)
DE Matt Shaughnessy Signed (D3-09)
S Mike Mitchell Signed (D2-09)
LB Slade Norris Signed (D4-09)
QB Danny Southwick Waived

Only "DHB" is left un-signed and we have one less "QB" in camp....

Makes room for Vick....Ha! Ha!...

PantyRaider....Waitin -n- Watchin!!!/_

3:44 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

-- Here's your obligatory Michael Vick update via Cable:

"Well, I have interest for this reason: I know Michael personally because of my time in Atlanta with him. But we as an organization really have not discussed him coming to the Raiders at any time."

And why have there been no discussions:

": I think for this reason, for one, we have good quarterbacks here, we have plenty of quarterbacks here. I don't know that, I'm not sure what he's going to add to our football team. We already have it. We like who we have so let's move forward."

Oh!...By the way...We just let a "QB" go so I guess we could add another to that position....

PantyRaider....Twisted Speculations!!!/_

3:55 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Arkansan, thanks for the good thoughts. Just a brain tumor. Nothin' my Dad can't handle. He's already walking around, and will be back sailing with me before the end of August. We're also looking forward to celebrating his 90th b-day come December.

Panty, we had five QBs, and now we're down to four. We won't need five, especially if two of them already have pretty big contracts.

4:16 PM  
Blogger H said...

Blanda,

What Arknasas said.

H

4:51 PM  
Blogger J.C. said...

Panty, every player who has ever played with Marcus Allen has only good things to say about the guy. Marcus was never a cancer. Al was the cancer is this case.

Marcus: Super Bowl and AFC playoff MVP. Dude was a winner.

5:11 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

The last time I checked we have 5 actie QBs on the roster plus 2 players who have played the position at the H.S. and thrown passes in the NCAA;

Russell - Clear cut #1
Garcia - Clear cut #2
Frye - Probable #3
Gradowski - Probable cut
Walter - Definite cut

McFadden & Bush - Wild Cat "QBs"

It would make the most sense for Vick to go to a team where he could upgrade the #2 QB slot and add a dimension as a "slash" type player.

One team that seems to make some sense is Indy where Dungy, as Vick's official mentor, could influence their decision.

6:37 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Calico, I figure either Indie or Buffalo.

J.C., all the players had good things to say about Randy Moss too. Even when he was playing with alligator arms.

When a player is referred to as "a cancer," it generally has nothing to do with how the players feel about a guy personally. It has to do with whether the player is interfering with the wishes and direction of the coaching staff.

7:53 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Added:

It was Art Shell, durring Shell I, who referred to Allen as "a cancer on this team."

7:55 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"JC"....

When a player goes on MondayNightFootball before a game and cries that Al Davis is trying to keep him out of the "HOF" and that the "HC" has no authority and was told not to play him full time than that player is definitely a "Cancer"....Especially with Bo on the roster...Allan was 3rd dn/red-zone specialist and back-up and remembering he was constantly dinged-up towards the end of his career with ankle injuries than this preserved his career not shortened it....

He had one good game when Bo went down for 140yds but couldn't follow it up the following week with something like 40 and we lost...Had Bo played we would have won and made the "SB"....

I knew his mother as she was part of our BoosterClub in "SD"....Even she was embarrassed by his crying and said she doesn't understand it but will support her son and his decisions which was what a mother does as I recall....

Don't get me wrong I loved Allan and even with Bo he was a stare "RB"....We had the greatest Tandem ever....But when a player does what he did it is inexcusable in my opinion but now I'm glad to see he has come to his senses and left that crap behind him....If you remember he refused to go into the "HOF" as a Raider when it was his time as a Raider that made him "HOF" material....He did noting special with "FC"....700yds/season will not get a single "HOF" vote....

The point that was being made was against Shell as "HC" because he was losing control of his team....The "Hoss" also had a problem with him during a game but was not a cancer because following that little episode he immediately apologised to the team/ownership/fans....We were leading but lost as a result with Vince Evens at "QB" to finish that game....

"BR"-n-"CJ"....

1st off don't lose your sense of humor about this subject....When talking about how many "QB"s the team has and replacing one loss with Vick there was that..."Ha! Ha!" thing which signifies it's a joke....

Here is how it very well could shape up...Will it...I doubt it but this would be interesting in my imagination....

#1)......"J-Rus"
#2)......Frye
#3)......Vick as "Slash Position QB"

Garcia who is becoming a disturbance is traded to one of several teams who need his services but would not consider talking to Vick...We get picks or a player...

Walter is traded or released....

Gradowski never had a shot he was just used for camp so he's released...

We now have injury protection for "J-Rus" and Vick plays in the "2-QB" set when desired as the "Slash" the same way Cordell Stewart was used in "Pitts"....

Now depending on how things go he may become the #2 next season...

PantyRaider...Realistic Possibilities????/_

8:32 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"Too Many Weapons"....

Too many for the "D"s to keep coverage on....

Too many for the "D"s to prepare for each week....

Too many to worry about injuries to a position....

Not Enough Footballs Now That's A Joke....

PantyRaider....Elaborate Expectations!!!/_

8:43 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

One less "WR" in the fold as Walker will start out on the "PUP" as a result of his un-announced knee surgery but for how long un-known...

One more player needs to be cut when "DHB" comes in so that looks to be Walter which mean we also have one less "QB"....

Suddenly it doesn't look so crowded anymore....Both positions could be filed by one player including "RB"....

"Slash" Vick....

"QB-WR-RB"....Dose he also play "TE"....

My personal advice....

Cut Walker for "ItP"...Inability to Perform"....

Give his roster spot to Vick and about 1/3 his money -w- incentives to a full pay-check upon completion of several conditions of employment minus the game checks he misses for suspensions.....

Now someone tell me all about how we can afford to have Walker's crap but couldn't afford to have Vick on this team....I don't get it....Vick didn't lay-down did he....Stupid yes just like Plaxico but neither laid-down on their teams like Walker-n-Moss....Nor did they refuse to play as coached like Porter-n-Hall....

Personally I would take them both and enjoy them "Kicking Some Ass Baby"....

PantyRaider....Vick Watch Continued!!!/_

6:36 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Ugh...It sickens me that this time last year, we talked Walker out of retiring. A known clown saying that he didn't have the drive any longer and that he's willing to let us keep the money, and we talk him out of it. Now he's on the PUP after selfishly having knee surgery without consulting the team. What's it going to take for this guy to get ejected? Sounds suspiciously like a scholarship in the making.

7:37 AM  
Blogger H said...

Take,

If Schilens shows he is ready to be the No. 1 receiver I don't see Walker making the opening day roster. On the PUP he opens up a roster spot for now.

Also, the PUP will keep him off the field for now and avoid any injury that would interfere with a clean release. I haven't seen anything where the surgery is related to playing for the Raiders.

This just in, according to published reports DHB is signed and on his way to camp if not there already. All draft choices signed or accounted for.

By the way, with DHB that means ony 6 first rounders have signed. Crabtree has not. Neither did Crabtree attend a single mini-camp or OTA.

I also believe DHB's progress will also factor into Walker's eventual release.

H

9:45 AM  
Blogger H said...

By the way.

Camps are open and we have 25 official first round holdouts. That's a pretty high number and includes the Chefs, Geldings and Dolts.

H

10:02 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Chaz Schilens...our #1 receiver? Holy cow, that scares me.

I realize that Walker might be eventually axed...But why hasn't he already been axed? Why are we paying him instead of putting that money toward something more productive and admirable, such as more Porta Potties in tailgate zone?

As for the knee surgery, the Raiders were "unaware" of it.

Let's review. He signs, goes on a bender in Vegas and gets his skull cracked, expresses a desire to retire, but we convince him not to and beg for the privilege to pay him a pot of gold, he goes at and catches all of 15 passes for the season, and he repays the good favor by having a serious medical procedure without even consulting or notifying the organization? And we still keep him around?

Starting to smell like a scholarship...

10:11 AM  
Blogger H said...

Take,

Right now everything seems to scare you.

Schilens came on strong at the end of last season. He, by all accounts, has worked his butt off this off season to improve his route running, downfield blocking and strength so he can go up and fight for the ball.

He has the size, speed, strength, work ethic and attitude to be a pro bowl receiver. Tie that with Zach Miller and the occasional deep ball to DHB, and we could have a decent passing game provided everyone remains healthy.

H

10:39 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"RT"....

NOT WE....It was that damn dumb "Lance" that talked him out of retiring because he would have to repay his huge signing bonus....Just one more example of how he "F'ed" the team on his way out the door...And I'll wager it was "Lance" who wanted that damn bastard in the 1st place....

Now lets see...We traded Moss at a total loss and signed Walker to a mega deal....That makes sense....So now tell me again why would a cheap deal with Vick be so damn bad....

I wouldn't worry about the scholarship....It turns out that the Raiders made him re-negotiate his huge contract at a considerable savings or he would have already been released and NOT paid according to a report I read as a result of his un-announced off-season surgery and off-season injury that put the team in jeopardy....So we now have an insurance policy on his ass and he won't be stinking up the field again this season...

As for the "Fear-Factor" considering Chaz as our #1 "WR" I would second the emotions but most likely #1 will be a "TE"....

Nothing against Chaz as a young developing player but even as a group they don't strike fear in any "D"....

Chaz...
"JLH"...
"DHB"....

It's the addition of

"Run-DMc"
Bush
Zack

that strikes the fear....

Now please consider for a moment the addition of the "2QB" set and that back-field running options/sweeps/reverses/flea-flickers and the likes....

"J-Rus"-n-Vick
"Run-DMc"-n-Bush
Chaz-"JLH"-"DHB"
Zack-n-Myers

But as already stated we don't need any more weapons...Bull-Shit!!!!....

We need all the weapons we can get and all the versatility along with it because the only way this "O" works is if there is that "Fear-Factor" in the "DB"s so they don't just crowd the box and play the run....They need to be on their heels worrying about what's coming next and biting on every Motion -n- Play-Action like the "DL" or we be in for some Deep-Shit from an all-out "Blitz" and the "QB" wont have time to connect with anyone...

PantyRaider...Weapons-Weapons-n-More Weapons!!!!/_

11:09 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Yes, counting on a guy with 15 career receptions to emerge as our #1 receiver scares me.

That doesn't seem unreasonable.

I am scared when the situation warrants it. This would be one of those situations.

11:28 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Vick said: "We're getting close."

Too vague so it's either a "Smoke Screen" to make a team consider speeding-up their actions or he's planning to sign with another league instead of the NFL....

Here's what's going on in Baltimore...

What Michael Vick did wasn't that bad. He killed eight dogs. Eight animals. People kill animals all the time with no consequences. Why are dogs different? Baltimore would be a better team with Vick.

I personally have to agree with that statement....

It was "Illegal" and that's indisputable and it was "Stupid" which is also indisputable as well as "Reckless" which is also indisputable but come on....A life's sentence for what....

And what-up wit all da fear...Is he going to bring "Dawg-Meat" to a TailGate Party or something...Hell if he did I'd sit down and have a meal with the guy....I'd even have a beer or 2 to wash it down....

PantyRaider...That Dude Can Flat Out Play!!!/_

11:34 AM  
Blogger H said...

Yes Take, 15 career receptions, in a rookie year slowed by injury. With an attitude that he is willing to put in the work and let the chips fall where they may.

Right now I'd rather have Schilens than Crabtree and his 8 milliion receptions in a single season on a team that threw every down.

I like him, his attitude and his work ethic. I don't think he will take plays off. I'd rather be in a foxhole with him than Randy Moss or Michael Vick. Sorry, but that's how I guage football players from a team standpoint.

I want to see what he can do, because in my opinion of all the wide receivers we have, he and Louis Murphy are the most intriguing and these guys are what we have.

We can lament on what we shoulda, woulda, coulda from now until the cows come home. But, as you stated, it's time to stop the timidity. It's time to stop being scared.

These are our guys, so let's roll.

H

12:09 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Take, like you, I once took the Walker retirement story at face value. I know longer do.

I suspect that Walker's desire to retire was similar to Art Shell's desire to leave as OL coach in the 1980s, and similar to Ryan's desire to go to the Jets last season.

I suspect that Kiffin learned more from his friend Shanahan than the "chill the kicker" trick.

My feeling now is that Kiffin worked on him, telling him how disatisfied everyone was with him after spending so much money him. My feeling is that Kiffin was likely relentless until Walker offered to return the contract money.

You can't take that incident out of the context of the timing.

Also, yes, Walker will be receiving a pay check. But for significantly less than he agreed to last season.

12:17 PM  
Blogger H said...

From Kirk Morrison via Jerry McDonald on stopping the run:

"– Morrison promises the Raiders will do what they haven’t done consistently since he arrived _ stop the run. It will happen through discipline, repetition and gap control."

Sounds like coaching them to work as a team. Rely on the guy next to you, use your strength and let him use his within the team concept and team discipline.

H

12:17 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"H"...

In a Fox-Hole with Vick you wont fear the "Dawgs"...Ha! Ha!...

I agree...Let's Roll....But always be willing to look at all options that are presented....When that option is past forget about it and go with what ya got...That's how this game is played....

I like our roster but as yet it's very un-proven so I acknowledge that as the fact but eagerly anticipate the future....Once these guys go out on that filed and prove that they are players to be feared than things will open up for other options....But until that happens look for the "D" to bring the heat and crowd the box...Again...That's just how this game is played....

PantyRaider....Game Time Yet!!!!/_

12:24 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Folks should also remember that it was Gruden who began conducting very light training camps because of the age of his players. Easy training camps were continued by Callahan and Turner. Shell conducted a hard camp, but the players resented it after about four years of very light camps. When Kiffin came in, he went back to light work outs.

From Cable, we now have this:

“They need to be in the heat and the sun. It hardens you. They need to go through the struggles of camp and the hard work, kind of the ups and downs with it and learn to help each other through it,” Cable said. “That’s part of building leadership and building a closer camp. Perhaps you can make it through easier by having this and then at night, back in the morning the next day. It’s almost like it’s too soft, it’s too easy.”

I've been griping about the low intensity of camps since the Gruden years. The Raiders used to run one of the toughest camps in the game - working out in the severe mid-day heat in Napa. When they were in LA their camps were too light - working out in the summer fog in Oxnard.

Cable is a Raiders coach. No doubt about it.

12:37 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"BR"....

Also these players are coming in looking forward to camp and willing to do the work and learn the basics again....It's not like before when the roster revolted and figured they already knew everything....We now have Vets who are willing to get back to the fundamentals of the game that makes the game work and do it as a unit instead of a group of individuals so that's huge....

They are behind Coach cable and his leadership...

PantyRaider....What A Difference A Year Makes!!!!/_

12:59 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

I remember some Idiot posting here that the "HC" doesn't matter because the players are pro's and already know the game...He also said the "QB"...Andrew Walter...Should revolt and run the "O" as he wants irregardless of what the "HC" (Shell) says....

Now that's just an example of the type of stupidity that has hovered around this franchise and some fans for the past few seasons....I doubt that they want to revisit their own statements but the record is still here and it follows them....

Now we see what happens when a team of Pro's is coached and they look forward to the work in progress...Now if that ain't a reversal of past attitudes what the hell is....

PantyRaider...No Escape From your History!!!/_

1:13 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

According to JMac, the coaches are blowing the whistle on plays before the play develops to check everyone's alignment.

Talk about starting on square one. Finally.

1:38 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

No. 7 overall draft pick Darrius Heyward-Bey has agreed to terms on a five-year contract with the Raiders, according to his agent, Ben Dogra. The wide receiver hasn’t signed the contract but is expected to Friday when he reports to training camp in Napa, Calif.

1:53 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Panty, if that's right, expect Walter to gone by tonight.

Also Panty, don't discount Gradowski. I've got a feeling about him. He's one of these players who has a lot of talent, and is a pretty good game manager, but he hasn't had a lot of opportunity. When he's been called on, he's been effective, just not spectacular.

For those concerned that Cable has no intention of increasing McFadden's work load, there's this:

"Cable said in breaking down video from the Raiders offense last season, he discovered that the offense was much more productive when running back Darren McFadden was more of a focal point.
Therefore, he said there will be an emphasis in using McFadden as much as possible this season."

Cable also said that the HB position would be the most competitive in camp, with McFadden, Fargas, Bush and Rankin all pushing for playing time and a roster spot. Competition never hurt anybody except those unable to compete.

2:05 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

I'm sorry, and please know that this is meant to be humorous, but I have to poke fun at the following:

"Cable said in breaking down video from the Raiders offense last season, he discovered that the offense was much more productive when running back Darren McFadden was more of a focal point.
Therefore, he said there will be an emphasis in using McFadden as much as possible this season."

Wow, that must have been an all-night session, getting to the bottom of that.

Next time, he should just read Raider Take, where we are fond of stating the obvious.

2:41 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

I don't know that it was that obvious, Take. I think it was just assumed here. McFadden had a couple of very good games, but he also had some fairly ineffective ones. He did have a turf toe problem, after all. Bush had one really good game, but that apparently was enough, for some, to call for the lynching of Fargas.

As for something I said earlier, regarding Cable increasing the training camp work load... I can't remember who it was, but I remember one great football coach once saying that if by the end of training camp the players were not united in their hatered of the coaching staff then you haven't had a productive camp.

3:08 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

I believe Schilens has a very bright future and ceiling. However, I am concerned about our WR corps in terms of production, experience, and depth.

We desperately need to sign a veteran WR for stability (ie. Toomer).

With Walker on PUP, if we don't add a FA, we could be looking at this crew;

#1 Schilens (15 receptions)

#2 JLH (22 receptions)
Note: JLH is more suited as #3; less reps, slot, continue as PR

#3 Murphy (rookie; 0 receptions)

#4 DHB (rookie; 0 receptions)

#5 Watkins (0 receptions)

#6 one of the following; Franklin, Holland, Miller, Parker, Bayes who combined had zero receptions in 2008

6 WRs with less than 15 years total NFL experience and a total of 37 receptions combined ... yup, I think scared, concerned, worried are applicable ways to describe our current WR corps.

3:12 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Yeah, RT. That was quite the revelation. Maybe during the next session he should look at the team's performance when Bush was in the mix.

3:14 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Let me throw in something about turf toe.

Everything I've heard says that turf toe is one of the worst football injuries. Not in terms of damage, but in terms of pain restricting movement. You simply cannot plant on it without doubling up pain.

It also takes forever to heal. Once acquired during the season, a player will usually have to deal with it all season long. Sometimes it doesn't fully heal by the next season, and you go through it all over again.

There is NO question in my mind that Run DMc was restricted from turf toe last season. There is also no question in my mind that his use was limited by the coaching staff for that reason.

3:17 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Calico:

I agree with H (surprise) on this one. I freely admit that on paper this group looks a little scary. However, I'm comfortable in the belief that we are well ahead of where we were with Porter and Curry, or Whited and Moss.

One look at Schillens' video from last season show him to be better than at least 3 of the 4 mentioned above. He also has a superior attitude than a different 3 of the 4 above.

Higgins showed a new life at the end of last season when Cable actually started to use him. And get the feeling from both, barring injury, that they will continue to build on what they started.

These are the guys we have. The season is about to start. We've upgraded at almost every position other than WR. It's been a good off season. Let's go through a good training camp, and then let's go to war.

3:39 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

The turf toe is a separate issue.

"Cable said in breaking down video from the Raiders offense last season, he discovered that the offense was much more productive when running back Darren McFadden was more of a focal point. Therefore, he said there will be an emphasis in using McFadden as much as possible this season."

So Cable studies hours of video, and "discovers" that when DMac is a focal point, we're more productive than, say, when Fargas is a focal point. Therefore, he will NOW use DMac AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE (hampered or otherwise).

Using your your top draft pick and top running weapon as much as possible? Brilliant!

Maybe I should fill out a GM application? Sounds like they could us me.

4:03 PM  

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