Welcome Matt, Adios Carson
Did Carson Palmer every really feel like a long-term linchpin to you? He didn't to me. I won't miss him, because there's not much to miss. He always seemed a bit distant. I can't put my finger on it. I couldn't detect much passion. His numbers were good, but the results weren't. He was just sort of...there. Remember when Terrelle Pryor tore his own teammate violently away from that stupid scrum last year? Now that's passion. I can't imagine Palmer doing anything like that.
So along comes Matt Flynn. Now this is how you do it. You get a guy with potential upside for a couple of late-round picks, instead of giving up early-round picks for a guy on the downside. Matt Flynn can get us to 4-12 no problem, which makes Palmer eminently expendable.
Flynn is now either our stopgap or our future, and we're going to find out at a fair price. Just because Russell Wilson seized the starting role in Seattle doesn't mean that Flynn is chopped liver. There's a reason Pete Carroll wanted him, too.
This is obviously a rebuilding year for the Raiders. So Flynn and Pryor go head-to-head, and we get to see if there's any cream that can rise to the top. Meantime, we pursue other needs in the draft, then get a quarterback early in the draft next year if necessary. We avoid the pressure to reach on a Geno Smith or any of the other QBs in this year's weak class.
I see a plan taking shape. We're starting at square one. It should have happened years ago, but it didn't. Past misdeeds will be paid with our patience.
Last year was an inexcusable exercise in half measures. This year will be different. The culture shift is accelerating. And don't be surprised if we take a step forward in wins while taking a step backward in collective talent. Acquiring talent hasn't been our biggest issue. Our biggest issue has been the inability to build a team. Will the new regime pull it off? Impossible to say. But you can't say they're not trying.
On that note, welcome Matt Flynn. Let 'er rip. Your new football life starts now.
So along comes Matt Flynn. Now this is how you do it. You get a guy with potential upside for a couple of late-round picks, instead of giving up early-round picks for a guy on the downside. Matt Flynn can get us to 4-12 no problem, which makes Palmer eminently expendable.
Flynn is now either our stopgap or our future, and we're going to find out at a fair price. Just because Russell Wilson seized the starting role in Seattle doesn't mean that Flynn is chopped liver. There's a reason Pete Carroll wanted him, too.
This is obviously a rebuilding year for the Raiders. So Flynn and Pryor go head-to-head, and we get to see if there's any cream that can rise to the top. Meantime, we pursue other needs in the draft, then get a quarterback early in the draft next year if necessary. We avoid the pressure to reach on a Geno Smith or any of the other QBs in this year's weak class.
I see a plan taking shape. We're starting at square one. It should have happened years ago, but it didn't. Past misdeeds will be paid with our patience.
Last year was an inexcusable exercise in half measures. This year will be different. The culture shift is accelerating. And don't be surprised if we take a step forward in wins while taking a step backward in collective talent. Acquiring talent hasn't been our biggest issue. Our biggest issue has been the inability to build a team. Will the new regime pull it off? Impossible to say. But you can't say they're not trying.
On that note, welcome Matt Flynn. Let 'er rip. Your new football life starts now.
posted by Raider Take at 9:35 AM
125 Comments:
Half Measures = Breaking Bad reference?
I like how mediots are claiming that Carson is not the same player he used to be, yet he managed to have a career year in passing last season. Granted, he didn't have the defense or special teams to back him up for w's; but he did have an amazing season.
Let's see what Arizona gives us, and let's see how much Palmer will have to restructure. I'm thinking it will be nowhere near $10 million we offered.
Take,
Who is this Russell Martin you speak of? If he is anything like Russell Wilson we should have taken him.
Hah, corrected! I must have MLB opening day on my mind, since Russell Martin is a baseball player!
Hey 'heart of darkness'....are you related to Charlie Murphy? If you are, then I am Rick James, bitch.
Another big step taken by Reggie...this guy isn't messing around, last year was just evaluating to see how far the culling had to go and it's going all the way. Kep going Reggie, you are doing a fine job.
JONES
Good article by Jerry in the Tribune, compares this trade to the Gannon trade its a interesting piece. Great Take by the way!
Topher
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18gElAzSL4E
Darkness....what did the 5 fingers say to the face?????
JONES
Well said, RT!
I agree Palmer seemed distant. He appeared more mechanical than involved. As you pointed out, that became more obvious after watching Pryor's 110% effort against SD.
I see too that 49ers picked up Colt McCoy for a late round pick. Flynn cost the Raiders two picks.
Is Flynn a better prospect than McCoy? Just asking.
These deserve repeating:
"Past misdeeds will be paid with our patience."
Last year was an inexcusable exercise in half measures."
Agreed, and thank you for saying that. Some may disagree but that's how I see it too.
Fortunately, Reggie appears to be on his game now!
This offseason has been a breath of fresh air.
Yes, it feels like an expansion team starting at ground zero but there is a clear plan to build with a core of young, fair market contract players.
It looks like Reggie isn't attempting any band-aid measures or short cuts but truly rolling up his sleeves to build in earnest.
Now that the Raiders have acquired Matt Flynn through a trade with the Seahawks ... 'Sayonara, Palmer-san?' (Well, according to the latest media release, the Raiders and the Cardinals are very close to signing a deal.
Now then, drafting a OB no longer seems to be a priority any longer. Looks like, instead, Terrell and Matt will be competing for the starter position.
I think the sheer cap cost of keeping Palmer around seems to have been the straw that broke the camel's back, something the Raiders can ill-afford. For a rebuilding team, it makes more sense to have two younger (with potential upsides) and less expensive QBs to compete.
So much for the wonderful world of QB. :D
Compared to what Raider fans were used to in the past off-season's...this doesn't compare. Cleaning house and building a new one in record time, by no means is it anywhere close to a finished product, but, you have to love the way, and the swiftness, of how it is being done.
Finally, we can say we have a franchise that is moving towards stability and in a rapid pace towards it. The way Reggie handles his business, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a winner, sooner than later.
You guys seem like dreamers. Especially this Calico guy. What young players are there to build on?The only good young players are Veldheer and Houston which came from the last regime. Name me one player Freckle Face Reggie has acquired that you see on the team long term and a quality starter? Seriously I can only think of five players that would start on at least half the other nfl teams. Reggie has not brought in one real starter he sucks and unfortunately the Raiders do also
Raiders sign Tracy Porter.....Reggie is the man.
JONES
Dennis Allen has a lot to live up to....Reggie is setting the bar high and I sure hope Allen can match it. The Raiders now have a more veteran coaching staff and players that want to be in Oakland....it's going to be a better year than most though, IMO.
JONES
*thought* not though
I think Jason La Canfora nails it with this observation:
"I applaud the Raiders for getting out of the Palmer business by any means necessary. He has become pouty and malcontent and is years away from looking like a winning quarterback, with his demands and stances putting himself above the team. He orchestrated his way out of Cincinnati, agreed to a new hefty deal with the Raiders, and it became pretty clear he wasn't enamored with the Raiders situation, either.
He wasn't helping Oakland win football games, his age and injury are concerns and, with Oakland still rebuilding and its regime saddled by the Palmer contract through nothing of their own doing, it was time to ship him out if he wouldn't agree to a more suitable, reworked deal. Your quarterback needs to be a leader of some sort, and no one was buying Palmer as the face of the Raiders in this circumstance."
I've got a good feeling about the Flynn deal, too. Mark my words, this will prove to be a great move.
Carson Palmer was not the present or the future of the Raiders....it will go down as one of the worst trades in history...thanks Hue.
Now the Raiders have 2 possible QB's of the future and at very reasonable prices, unlike the dinosaur Palmer.
Get em out, all the dead wood, bring in character and players that don't just play for the money.....it's what we are witnessing....it's a good time to be a Raider fan....been waiting for this for years and now it is year....someone pinch me, slap me, punch me, whatever, is this real?
JONES
Jones you sound drunk you think its a good time to be a Raider fan. I guess you like being a fan of the worst team in the league what in the hell are you talking about? Let's just hope they get Clowney
"Dennis Allen has a lot to live up to....Reggie is setting the bar high and I sure hope Allen can match it.
Well said, Jones.
Hats off to Reggie! He had a busy day today.
From the media: "Lotulelei gets full medical clearance."
This is the direction I see the Raiders going with the 3rd overall pick, i.e., assuming he is available and the Raiders are unable to trade down (not enough talent at the top of the draft to warrant any team trading up).
This kid's draft stock went down because of a heart condition but it looks as though that's a non-issue. Every scouting report I've read says he's a disruptive force in the middle.
Maybe Floyd, or an OT... whoever it is has to be an immediate starter.
Anonymous troll said, "What young players are there to build on?The only good young players are Veldheer and Houston which came from the last regime. Name me one player Freckle Face Reggie has acquired that you see on the team long term and a quality starter?"
I'll name you 3: Miles Burris, Christo Bilukidi, and Tony Bergstrom. Now piss off.
Anonymous TROLL (OTB)said...
"Jones you sound drunk"
I am drunk, with Raider cheer, we got's ourselves a real Front Office...gimme some more......by the way, how can I "sound" drunk when I am writing?
I have been a little short on sleep lately, been doing many things (thank you oil)....so call the spelling police if it offends you.
JONES
SCAR
Put me in the minority(maybe the only person) of this blog as to being unhappy to get rid of Carson Palmer, only in so far, imo, as he is being undersold in how much he did do for the Raiders last year.
Raise your hand if you were bad mouthing Palmer last year. He Personally kept the Raiders in games, Won a few just by the force of his will,didn't quit, (unlike a bunch of other former Raiders) and only missed the last two games after a legit injury.
I am going to need a reminder of how many games we as Raider fans were saying "If only we had another qb, we would have won that game." It didn't happen often because the team(offense, defense, special teams, coaching) as a whole sucked.
We made a bad trade to get Carson, and we made a not as bad, necessary trade to get rid of Carson Palmer.
As for me, Thanks Carson Palmer for your one full year here. You(Carson Palmer) didn't really have a chance for success here in Oakland.
As for The Raiders, I wish they had gotten more for Palmer. Imo, Arizona got one over on McKenzie knowing that the Raiders had to take anything that was offered because if not, The Raiders were going to release Palmer, and get nothing at all.
This is the only point I agree with Reggie, in that now that the Raiders are in full rebuild mode, I think it is better to let a younger Pryor, or Flynn run the show.
Overall, my grade for McKenzie goes down a bit, but I still give high marks for the off-season in its entirety. Also, if true, that Palmer wanted out, and was trying to leave, McKenzies marks go up, but how I feel about Palmers performance last year does not change...
SCAR
Reggie inherited a decades worth of ineptness..this rebuild is going to take more than a few years to do. This overhaul was long overdue. I have no problem with the way Reggie is approaching this. I'm going to remain optimistic and see what transpires. Raider Nation may suffer a little bit longer, but Iam hopeful for a return to greatness.
SCAR, good point...Palmer was actually the MVP of the team last year = OUCH. Palmer wanted out because he knew the Raiders would only want him for 1 more year if that. He was in limbo with the franchise that is taking a direct 180 from what Palmer had been brought into.
Probably wasn't a fit, Reggie feels Flynn is a fit, we need players that fit and Palmer didn't. Though your point of him being the only Raider worth anything last year, is a good one.
It feels right, IMO, that he is gone though, a couple more moves and a good draft....build some chemistry, you never know.
JONES
Also, the cap #'s lining up for next year is HUGE....Reggie is going to have tons of room to make all the moves needed to build this team into a power. The key is finding the right players and from what I have seen from Reggie so far is, he can get the players.
Drafts should be strong as well, this is starting to show signs of being something very good. Raider fans, can you believe that we are on our way to fielding teams that will be competitive year in and year out?
Already some nice new players added with the cenerpiece being this years draft, and yes, next year's draft.
A complete rebuild takes time. To me, I'm beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel which is to build a team with a coherent plan primarily through the draft, shrewd free agent acquisitions, and players that are priced at fair market value.
Nick Roach, Kevin Burnett, Tracy Porter, Matt Flynn, Vance Walker is a start to the rebuild. A solid draft and more maneuvering with the roster and the plan is off the ground and running.
A methodical, big picture rebuild will hopefully lead to sustained improvements and ultimately success.
My perspective is that we've floundered around for a decade. Strange to say after so much ineptitude but I honestly have never felt so relieved to sit back, watch it unfold, and patiently, optimistically look forward to the future.
My perspective is, we have floundered since the Marcus Allen debacle. It was one knee jerk action after another with no real plan or reasoning behind it.
Mars fell inline with Uranus and the Gruden era was born, didn't last long before it went back to what it was, and even that era (Gruden/Callahan) was chaotic. What we are seeing is management 101, those who thought Reggie was in over his head....it just took him a year to watch and see exactly where and what the changes needed to be. Now, he has swung the plan into full motion and it is so good to see the Raiders being run in this fashion.....teams and fans around the league are taking notice that the Raiders are not the 'joke' anymore.
JONES
I hope mgt can avoid the pitfalls of short-term contracts, the likes of which brought Wheeler to the Raiders for about $700k and watched him leave for a big contract one year later.
You may not love Wheeler, but this is how it works in the NFL. IMO, if you want to build a team, you have to sign players who you believe will contribute to multi-year deals.
It’s got to be a tremendous juggling act for any NFL GM. Teams are regularly getting dismantled by free agency.
SCAR, the Palmer trade wasn't about his play. We pretty much offered what Arizona is going to give him ($10 million), and he turned us down saying he wanted to win now. He has that chance with Fitzgerald and Mendenhall, and an always stout defense in the desert.
It was about Palmer not wanting to go through a rebuilding year(s), and wanting to win without the grunt work to get there. He quit on the Raiders!
Now with that said, I did not want him to go. I was hoping he would have stayed. I do appreciate his hard work. Like I said earlier, I didn't buy the hype from the media that his better days were behind him because he threw for over 4000 yards last year. Imagine what he is going to have with Fitzgerald? Scary! And we did get too little for him.
Raider Nate 75
your think Miles Burris, Christo Bilukidi, and Tony Bergstromm are good young players, seriously? are you sniffing glue?
Burris was perhaps the worst lb in the nfl statistically last year look it up its there. Bilukidi and Bergstrom did they play more than 20 snaps combined. What are you talking about your examples are so ridiculous it strains your credibility. How dare you soil the great Howie's number with your foolishness
I find it humorous how some people; not too mention any names because they don't use one; will critique everyone's post as insane based on one year's worth of statistics. Forgetting that they were rookies who showed they have football skills and knowledge; and given the chance to gain experience will become stars in the league.
If you want to build a team, you do it through the draft and you keep them through good management and coaching. F.A's can be used to bolster a team, but should not be used to build a team.
The only option Reggie has right now to fill out a roster is to go heavy into F.A. Long term, Reggie will use the draft as the cornerstone and the future of the team.
The 1 year contracts are needed right now because strapping players from F.A. to long term/expensive contracts is not the direction Reggie wants or should go. Especially when there is over 30 mill in dead money on the books. NO LONGER will there be long term, outrageous money being handed out to mediocre players....like the ones that were all dumped by Reggie this offseason and last.
JONES
Hey Raider Nate if they were so good why the hell could they never get on the field you are the only one on planet who is talking about Bergstrom and Bilukidi as stars there not even NFL starters. Not sure what you needing to know my name has to do with your lack of football knowledge. As I am sure Raider Nate 75 is what is on your birth certificate. Come on dude just admit it Bergstrom, he won't even be in the nfl 3 years from now
Bergstrom has a chance to become a starting OG and/or a valuable rotational swing player (backup LG, RG, RT, LT). Will he be a 'star'? I doubt it but he could be a good OLineman with another camp and season under his belt.
Bergstrom is well suited to be an OG in a power blocking scheme but only time will tell.
Who's talking about outrageous money contracts? I'm talking about multi-year deals on the cheap for fringe players that Reggie believes will contribute to the rebuilding process.
Let's not be penny wise and pound foolish. How many here would have liked to see Wheeler stay another year or two? That likely would have been possible at not much more than the $700k we paid him the first year, had he been signed to a multi-year deal.
Signing guys like this to non-guaranteed contracts isn't going to break the bank or affect the bank in any way.
Corkran made a crude estimate the Raiders will have $58mm in cap space next year based on contracts in place. That's a staggering figure by NFL standards, and shouldn't prevent us from making these types of deals.
Tough to build and sustain a winner if your roster jumps ship every free agent period.
"I'm talking about multi-year deals on the cheap for fringe players that Reggie believes will contribute to the rebuilding process."
Why would you want to sign 'fringe players' to multi year contracts to "build your team"? That makes no sense.
Wheeler was signed to that deal because it's what both sides agreed to. Reggie needed a player for cheap, Wheeler wanted a chance for a breakout season so he could parlay it into a bigger contract. Wheeler didn't deserve a multi year deal when he signed with the Raiders, he was a part time player in Indy.
The LB core has been upgraded and for cheaper than Wheeler. Reggie has upgraded with better players and gave them more than a 1 year deal... Once players are proven and REGGIE HAS THE MONEY, he will lock them up for fair value. Last year, Reggie was in no position to do that. Do you really expect the Raiders roster to "jump ship" every year? Earth to NYR.
JONES
"I'm a guy that stays out of trouble, doesn’t put himself into difficult situations," Porter said. "I’m a guy who loves the game of football, who wants nothing more than to succeed and wants my team to succeed. And another thing the coaches, and Reggie, they’re doing a good job of bringing guys in and keeping guys that have that same mindset.
"Nobody wants to bring guys in that are troublemakers that are going to be a cancer to the team and break up the team. You don’t want that, because that destroys the camaraderie, it breaks up the locker room. You can't have a bunch of guys that are playing for themselves, no one’s on the same page. So we want guys that want to win, that love the game of football, that just want to take this Raiders team to a new level."
.......EXACTLY.....Are you listening McClain? Kelly? etc.. etc.....
JONES
"Why would you want to sign 'fringe players' to multi year contracts to "build your team"? That makes no sense."
Maybe "fringe" isn't the word you want to hear, but isn't McKenzie signing low- to middle-tier players to build his team? And if you look up and down these signings, I think only one was signed for more than one year.
That opens the door for repeats of the Phillip Wheeler free agency departure.
Guys like Kevin Burnett and Tracy Porter could be significant contributors to the Raiders, yet they will likely follow Wheeler to bigger pay checks if they can put in one solid year with the Raiders.
Calico Guy you are mistaken. I live Utah and they ran the zone system so Bergstrom is a zbs guy more than power he is not a mauler
Peace out
Jasper
Jasper,
Bergstrom was a ZBS blocker as an OT.
My point was that as an OG, (inside, big guy in tight spaces), he is more suited to maul 1 vs. 1 in a power blocking scheme as opposed to blocking in space on the edge.
OT vs. OG, ZBS vs. Power -- totally different skill sets. The Raiders by mid-season last year identified that Bergstrom could be a valuable piece at OG.
Do you want guys like Wheeler and Porter as your team leaders? To build the team around these types? Maybe Reggie has his sights set a little higher?
Maybe those contracts will be reserved for game changer types...at this point, with little cap space and a lot of holes to fill, can't sign those types.
Right now, it's fill the roster with 2nd tier players and hope a few will become top players while not being committed to them in the long run. Build through the draft and plug some holes in FA.
Understanding where the Raiders are cap wise, will help you understand the moves Reggie is making.
JONES
Also, when you have established to players in the league, that you are a team they want to play for, they will resign in many cases to that team. It ain't going to happen overnight and if you are expecting that, you may want to put your head in the sand for a year or 2. Raiders have a lot of rebuilding and that also includes the perception of the franchise throughout the league/players. It's happening and will continue as the Raiders continue to make smart and progressive moves.
JONES
Sure, Reggie can re-sign stopgap players that perform well but it may cost Wheeler-type pay raises to do so.
My point is that may be penny wise and pound foolish.
We don’t know for sure that cap restraint is the reason Reggie is reaching to the lower-tier of free agency? IMO, Reggie has a propensity to select from this level (which is fine with me - I'm sick of diva players).
Otherwise, there are plenty of ways to work the cap.
First, only the top 51 contracts get counted right now. At the price point Reggie is shopping, these players may not even count.
Second, GMs often pay bonuses and/or back-load multi-year contracts to minimize cap hit during the initial year. That's Cap 101.
Third, to point 2, the Raiders have ample cap space next year to start their rebuilding process in earnest this year (not sure Reggie has the luxury of time after seeing how pissed Mark Davis was at the end of last season).
Fourth, signing a player to more than one year doesn't commit the Raiders to keeping that player. Very few guaranteed contracts are given to lower- and middle-tier players (and the Raiders stand to have insane cap space next year).
Jones, we can agree to disagree on this (and other points), but I fear the Raiders may be setting themselves up to say goodbye to players they'd like to keep because of all the one-year deals being made.
Moreover, it seems dangerous for us to have so many contracts expiring next year. I hope we don't have to start this process over again!
Why is it dangerous to have expiring contracts? How many keepers are there on the roster? Reggie wants to build the team through the draft, Reggie wants top players but he isn't going to over spend or damage the future cap by doing it. Those days are gone....as far as cap manipulation....you still think Mr.Davis was a cap wiz because he could always "put it off till next year"? WRONG....haven't you learned from the mistakes of the past? Reggie was in cap hell, still is, next year, he is out of it because he is not signing players to backloaded and any other manipulation. He is doing the right thing.
JONES
"Why is it dangerous to have expiring contracts?"
That's a bit out of context.
I thought I made my opinion clear. Let me reiterate; a high percentage of contracts that expire in the same year could jeopardize continuity established during the previous season. To wit, players inherently gravitate to big money... which the Raiders aren't paying now and might not in the near future.
The point, again, is why pay through the nose tomorrow what you can secure on the cheap today?
To suggest that the Raiders (who project to have $58mm in cap space next year) might damage future cap by signing six-figure players to multi-year deals is a bit absurd.
I understand McKenzie not wanting to sign multi-year deals with some stopgap players, but it looks as though he also signed a few high potential players to one-year deals, much like he did last year with Wheeler.
It’s not a big deal, it’s just my observation, and my opinion.
Yes or No. If Allen can't win more that 4 games this year he should be gone? Don't want to hear answers with some crap about "Well if there competitive. Simple yes or no. Rock on Nation Jesse
Ok, I'm not sayin', just sayin' I keep catching myself smiling 'cos we have a QB, a legitimate contender/leader, I know no games played yet but having read everything and watched everything since his signing, i'm feeling better n better about what Reggie Raider is doing... so in a year, good or bad, we'll know how these moves worked out and we'll be in a normal cap 'n draft position to really compete for the talent out there... meanwhile, however this coming season unfolds, I know it's gonna be better than the last couple of nothing...
"To wit, players inherently gravitate to big money... which the Raiders aren't paying now and might not in the near future."
If a player is given a chance to prove himself AND likes the direction of the team AND the Raiders have cap space, there is ABSOLUTELY no reason the player won't be re-signed long term by the Raiders at a fair market contract.
Didn't you just inform us all that the Raider would have $58M in cap space in 2014?
And to be clear, I'm talking about a good, fair market contract based on performance and value to the team.
If another team offers Player X a hugely inflated, funny money contract (like we did with DeAngelo Small) and the player bolts, so be it.
The example of Wheeler is out of context in that when his 1 year contract came up (a) the Raiders had a paltry $2M in cap space and (b) he wasn't all that good the back half of 2012.
I'm looking at Reggie's moves as setting us up quite nicely for sustained improvements, having significant cap space to sign the players we want to keep and add, and draft picks to continue to build.
Is it going to be perfect? Done in 1 offseason? No. But it seems to be unfolding to his plan and under difficult circumstances.
CJ - I don’t see the Wheeler example as being out of context; it happens all the time... and likely to happen again to the Raiders.
Just because the Raiders project to have $58mm next year doesn't mean they will spend it, as evidenced by all the one-year contracts. And why should they put themselves in a position to spend it unnecessarily? There’s a good chance the market value of some of these players will increase as Wheeler’s did.
"...he wasn't all that good the back half of 2012."
That could be for other reasons too, like he stopped buying into the coaching....
For as frugal as McKenzie appears to be, I'm still searching the Internet for an explanation why he increased Flynn's guaranteed money from $2mm to $6.5mm.
And it's kind of insulting (to Pryor) for the Raiders to suggest there will be an open competition at QB then treat and pay Flynn like a starter.
Flynn has exactly one more start than Pryor in his NFL career.
Again, just my observations. No big deal.
NY you make some good points. I am not enamored with Reggie. Instead of all this blind love lets consider the following.
1)Brisel disaster of a signing and a waste of money
2) Let Allen implement zbs and then stubbornly stick with it when it obviously did not fit the personnel
3) Waited a year to purge bad salaries why?
4) Did not keep at least one of if not two of Myers, Bryant, and Wheeler
5) Extended Seymour for ridiculous money
6) Increased Flynn's salary
What are the positives, I don't see them yet. Gutting a team anyone can do. He may need one more year for a complete grade but so far he gets a D
Seymour in Tacoma
Palmer was overrated. He threw too much (which accounts for his yards) and turned the ball over too much. Having a B-grade gunner lead your team is not the mark of a team that's hungry to reach greater heights. He had to go. I'm not completely sold on Flynn, but there's way more upside there than with Carson; we also have much more offensive flexibility. Carson wasn't exactly the brightest QB in the league after all.
Jesse, to answer your question, I would say yes--a head has to roll if we only win four games again this year, and that head would probably be Allen's.
Some will say that's unfair, given our rebuilding mode and personnel issues. But we have to see progress in the win-loss column.
You could say that, well, we went 4-12 before unloading a bunch of players, so it's reasonable for us to spin our wheels at 4-12 for another year.
I would disagree with that stance.
Last year was unacceptable, and coaching had a hand in that. We have to do better. If Allen can't coach up this crew past four wins, then his seat should get very hot.
Look at our opponents: two games against the two-win Chiefs, and games against the four-win Eagles, the two-win Jaguars, the mediocre Jets and Titans, and two against the beatable Chargers. There's also the "any given Sunday" factor in all the remaining games.
If there's not 5+ wins in there, a head will roll.
Wheeler simply wasn't the type of player to throw money at to keep. Whether he quit on the team or just under-performed, there was no compelling reason to re-sign him.
We've added Maiava, Roach, and Burnett to go along with Burris with a year under his belt. Burris will likely now be a back-up which is decent depth at a positional group that was mighty bare last year.
As far as Flynn goes, it is very clear that Reggie knows what Flynn is all about. His contract and guaranteed money is very reasonably structured and we look like a bargain if Flynn does well for us.
CJ - you're making my point for me.
Of course Wheeler wasn't worth paying a huge contract to keep. That goes directly to my point.
And by elevating all three newly signed LBs ahead of Buris you imply one or more of these guys could be worth keeping around in 2014... yet 2/3 were signed to one-year deals (Roach and Burnett).
By the time the Raiders recognize what they might have, these guys will be licking their chops for 2014 free agent contracts.
Roach was heir apparent to Brian Urlacher.
Tracy Porter is another guy I can see making a big comeback. It's a smart pick-up, but might only last one year.
wrt Flynn, I'm anxious to see him play, but why pay him more than he was contracted to make? On the surface, that makes no sense.
By coming to the Raiders, Flynn has an excellent chance of being the starter, something he had zero chance behind Wilson. That should be reward enough for a guy under contract.
The Raiders didn't extend his deal, and I haven't read that they restructured in a way to save cap dollars this year.
If I'm uninformed about Flynn, it's only because I can find any explanation that makes sense.
I will say, very interesting off-season.
Correction... I CAN'T find an explanation about Flynn's deal.
Seymour Bush.....Briesel came at the recommendation of Knapp, Reggie re-did his contract and will pay him 1.3 this year.
Allen made a mistake on the ZBS, they started putting in more PBS as the season progressed.
Reggie couldn't cut all the players last year, he would of had NO TEAM if he did. Myers can't block, not worth the money he got.
Bryant wanted a big contract and Reggie didn't want ATTITUDES.
Wheeler was way over paid and Reggie upgraded Wheeler for cheaper.
Flynn's salary was restructured to create more cap space in the long run.
The positives are a franchise that is getting it's shit together and has a chance to be a contender for years to come. Instead of cap hell every year and dumbass moves every offseason. It's not hard to see positives, if you look.
JONES
Former Chicago Bears linebacker Nick Roach signed a four-year, $13 million contract with the Oakland Raiders that included a total guarantee of $5 million, according to documents obtained by ESPNChicago.com. Roach received a $3.185 signing bonus when he signed with the Raiders on Friday.
Kevin Burnett...3/19/2013: Signed a two-year, $5.25 million contract. The deal included a $1.285 million signing bonus. Burnett is eligible for annual workout bonuses of $125,000 in both seasons. Another $250,000 is available through incentives. 2013: $840,000, 2014: $2.875 million, 2015: Free Agent
Damn NYR, do you research before you comment on contracts?
JONES
A quote attributed to Wheeler...."That could be for other reasons too, like he stopped buying into the coaching...."
Seeing as the Defense as a whole improved in the last few games of the season...doesn't seem likely. Why do you want to sign players who make very little by NFL standards to multi year deals? These players are easily replaced, just as Wheeler was. You sign them to short term deals and if they FIT, they get signed again, simple.
JONES
As far as Allen being fired....if the team looks as though it hasn't improved or looks way out of sync throughout the season....Reggie will make a move if it is needed. If the team is showing improvement and playing .500, he stays. Because of the coaching carousel
of the past, it is going to have to be complete failure on Allen's part to get fired. S T A B I L I T Y is greatly needed, another firing will set the team back again....it's going to have to be a disaster for Allen to get cut....I don't see that happening.
JONES
Once again, fans need to realize what a clusterf*&^ last year was, the short time that the new regime had to try and get a remedy...would anyone have succeeded under those conditions? REALLY? I would think that the new regime wanted to see what they had as far as players that MIGHT have been keepers...this offseason shows you there were very little 'keepers'.
JONES
The salary cap is set at $123 million this season with a $4.5 million rollover from last season. This means 38% of the team's salary cap money this season is being paid to players who are not on the team. It also means they have just $78 million to spend on the players currently on the roster. They must field a $78 million roster and expect to compete against $123 million rosters. That isn't really a fair fight but it is the situation they are in.....
may this NEVER happen again in Raider history
JONES
Allen does not inspire
Just look at those Harbaugh brothers they demand respect
Thanks for the blog
Sanderson
Thanks, Sanderson, keep coming back! I'm hoping that Allen comes back strong, growing into the role with more evident control and command.
NYR,
I guess you made my point by not doing your research.
All 3 LBs were signed to multi-year contracts ... Maiva was signed for 3 years, $6M.
What Reggie has done with the LB corps is sign 3 experienced guys in the prime years of their careers for reasonably structured contracts. And your problem or issue with that is?
As far as Tracy Porter goes, he specifically wanted to come to the Raiders because of his respect and relationship with Dennis Allen. If he proves his worth as a starting CB, the Raiders will take care of him.
What it ultimately boils down to is a 2 way street between the organization and the player. If the organization values a player's contribution and is a good fit for the team, the organization will offer a competitive contract.
What is a thing of the past is throwing funny money, 5+ year contracts to average performers.
As I said, it was my observation. Not for lack of trying, I couldn't find the terms of Burnett's or Roach's deals and had read somewhere they were single season deals.
I stand corrected...
and I’m actually happy to see I was proven wrong on these deals.
I like the acquisitions McKenzie has made, and I don't necessarily see these guys as stopgap players. I agree with Raider Take that things need to improve sooner rather than later.
However, I also agree that the Raiders are not in a "fair fight" this year wrt dead money.
A PFT writer said it would be unfair to judge McKenzie before all the mess is cleared away.
I agree with that, but I think it is fair to judge Allen and the coaching. There has to be a minimum expectation of improvement.
Hold on guys are you really arguing about whether Roach and Burnett have long term deals.
I say who cares there names are Roach/Barnett not Demarcus Ware and Patrick Willis. Come on guys these are not Pro Bowlers we are talking about, and that my friends is the real problem
Love that I just found this blog the spirited banter is awesome
Sanderson
Pretty hard to turn from a team loaded with Rolando McClain types and limited cap space into pro bowlers in a year or 2...you are going to have to wait for those types through the draft or next year when cap space is huge. We all know what the problem is and has been a lack of talent on this team for a very long time. To remedy it, you need PLENTY of draft picks and cap space, that is in the works right now....patience is needed, Sandy. Right now, Reggie is building DEPTH so when he can spend some money on impact players, he will have good depth behind the positions. Draft well and the Raiders will be a force for years to come.
JONES
http://blog.sfgate.com/raiders/2013/04/08/mckenzie-davis-knew-it-was-going-to-be-a-two-year-deal/
Trying to cut and paste from my phone but this article is worth chasing down.
Hey Calico you comment from last week regarding Bergstrom was wrong. Like I told you dude I live in Utah and watch the teams here Bergstrom is strictly a finesse guy. This is from the sf gate today. Jasper
The team’s top draft pick, third-rounder Tony Bergstrom, couldn’t crack the lineup on an offensive line that struggled. Furthermore, he was drafted as a zone-blocking guard, and the team has now changed back to a power-blocking scheme. Linebacker Miles Burris, Oakland’s fourth-round pick, had a lot of trouble shedding blocks and missed tackles when he did.
Jasper,
Based on your post above, I stand corrected but ultimately, only time will tell whether Bergstrom can be a solid guard or quality depth. Basing any conclusions on 1lost season or previous systems in college is faulty and pre-mature.
The big question for rookies drafted in the later rounds is whether or not they have the talent, desire, acumen to be coached up.
Raiders signed CB Mike Jenkins.
Taking a look at the offseason acquisitions, the D is being completely rebuilt.
CB Jenkins, CB Porter
LB Maiava, LB Roach, LB Burnett
DT Walker, DT Sims, DE Hunter
Not sure which guys will pan out and which will be nothing but transaction fodder but I like how Reggie is methodically turning over the roster, clearing cap space, and setting us up for sustainable improvements.
If Flynn becomes a true #1, we will hopefully look back at 2013 in a few years and realize that Reggie worked his plan.
Reggie might be fielding a team that is better using approx 78 mill, than any team since Callahan using a topped out cap. Imagine what he will do next off season...we are in for much brighter days, Raider fans.....YES!
JONES
This comment has been removed by the author.
i like what reggie is doing. looks like a d-lineman or linebacker for the draft..
Whether Reggie's plan works or not, nobody should fault him for lack of trying. It would be a gross understatement to merely suggest it’s been a lot to take on for a first time GM. He's been deliberate and methodical.
Despite DL acquisitions in FA, this is where I believe the Raiders should focus with their first pick.
We have the same basic needs on DL and OL that we had the year Davis drafted DHB in the first and Mike Mitchell in the second.
To be sure, that won't happen again.
CJ, don't forget Andre Carter has also re-signed with the Raiders; shortly after the Jenkins' transaction was announced.
So welcome back Mr. Carter! :)
Re-signing Andre Carter isn't very exciting but it's a smart move. The guys is only a couple years and an injury removed from a big season, and he appeared last year to have gotten himself back into football shape.
Raiders also re-signed Joselio Hanson. I liked his hustle last year, particularly one play where it looked like he dove to secure a fumble from going out of bounds. Of course it didn't get ruled that way by the officials.
Hanson provides solid depth to what has quickly become a respectable corp of CBs.
Can't wait for the draft!
P.S. Raiders are reportedly hot on the trail of finding a third QB, lowering the chance they will consider drafting one.
Seneca Wallace and Tyler Thigpen were scheduled for workouts. Obviously, the Raiders saw what the rest of us saw in Matt Leinart; absolutely nothing!
The draft is going to be heavy on the lines... just what Reggie said or at least implied months ago (draft in the trenches)
Are you warming up yet, NYR? Reggie is clearly showing he is the man for the job so no need to worry there.
Allen still has some proving but IMO, he cannot be graded on last year, imagine trying to coach that mess? Then he had coaches that probably weren't his 1st choice, it must have been a bitch.
Better coaching and a better roster, we do have something to look forward to this year, not such a throw away year after all. Next year, more upgrading will occur....it looks very good, don't it?
JONES
What looks good Jones? Reggie has not signed or drafted one impact player. He made some bad mistakes first year.
So what has he done? He has developed a "great" roster of backup players and or mediocre starters depending on if you are an optimist. The only legit NFL starters are Houston, Veldheer,McFadden and maybe Wisnewski. His pick for a coach is a joke, Allen is a weak uninspiring putz. The zbs was a disaster. Compare him to guys like Arians, Pagano, and Harbaugh who have been hired recently they are real leaders. Say what you want about Hue but he inspired and was a fantastic play caller
I will probably be skewered by all the rose colored wearing glasses guys here but I have been a Raider fan since 75 so don't start hating on me for telling it like it is.
Guys sad to say but the Raiders are the worst team in the NFL. They have the worst stadium, one of the lowest revenue bases and not much hope for the next few years. The franchise is in terrible shape.
Sorry but this is the worst period in Raider history. I am not willing to give Reggie some 4 year grace period because of the salary cap etc. Those are just lame excuses for his apologists.Is he a CFO or a GM. Look at the colts they went from 1-15 to playoffs. He claims he is getting the finances in shape, big friggin deal and if you read John Clayton's article from the other day it looks like they have real financial issues on the horizon.
Bottom line and it damn near tears a hole in my stomach to say it but the team is a disaster from top to bottom and not improving. Steve Rocman
Over the past three seasons, Jenkins has allowed quarterbacks to complete 61.8 percent of their passes thrown his direction with 11 touchdowns for a passer rating of 108.4, according to Pro Football Focus.
Marc Davis's haircut
Well 'Steve', I have seen Reggie turn a roster full of overpaid bums into a more competitive roster and with only 78 mill to spend to stay under the cap. He has done it in 1 and 1/4 seasons where as the last regime that you pine for, could not do in 10 years and with a bigger cap to spend.
Right there is PROGRESS, if you can't see that, then you are blind. Now with what little Reggie has had to spend, he has brought in players who are young and have an upside and not for an inflated paycheck. They are also more talented than Huff,Routt, Kelly, Shaughnessy, McClain on and on.....
The coaching surrounding Allen is improved and more 'ring savvy'. Just the way business is being conducted in a steady pace and with purpose. Face it, you are stuck in the past and hate anything that might threaten the legend of Al Davis. I get it.
JONES
One more thing, 'Steve', the Raiders WERE a joke, now the League and fans are taking notice, players are willing to sign in Oakland without having to overpay them like before....
Let me guess, you thought giving Wimbley stupid money was a brilliant move? That giving up a High 1st Rd pick for Seymour was brilliant? Paying Routt top money was brilliant? Saying Jason Campbell was going to be the next Jim Plunkett was brilliant?.....What Reggie brings to the table is miles beyond what it used to be or what Hue could even dream about doing. Time to get out of your time warp and get into the NEW Oakland Raiders....BRING IT!!!
JONES
Building a team whose roster, cap, and draft pick situation was a complete mess is no easy, quick fix.
The plan that Reggie is working diligently is to put the Raiders in a better position to take strides forward.
In order to build something solid with a chance for sustainable success, drastic measures were required.
Before Reggie walked in the door, we were throwing huge sums of cash at guys who were average performers to put expensive band aids on gushing wounds.
Make no mistake -- without significant cap room to re-sign your valuable contributors and add talent and adding through the draft productive impactful talent in the draft, a team will flutter around 4-9 wins.
I like the NEW direction of the team even though we got some tough sledding ahead of us to gain traction.
Another thing that annoys me is I keep hearing about how the Colts went from 1-15 to playoffs ... guess what -- the Colts drafted a franchise QB, had tons of cap room and draft picks, and rode a perfect storm turnaround. Good for them but to compare their sitation to our sitation is laughable at best.
I respect Reggie's “clean house” approach. This team has been bad for too long and it doesn't deserve another minute of our patience.
I'm surprised McFadden is still on the roster... we'll see after the draft.
IMO, when you build a team from the ground up you don't start with high priced superstars. You first need a foundation.
I'm a firm believer in adding as many bodies as possible to get this process started. The cream will always rise to the top. These guys -- be it few or many -- will become the nucleus of the new Raiders. The rest are stopgap players and camp fodder.
McKenzie isn't just adding bodies, he has been deliberate and methodical at positions of need, and targeted players that (a) are scrappy blue-collar types which can compete and (b) the Raiders can afford.
I don't think I'm viewing the current situation with "rose colored glasses." I have been and will continue to be quick to criticize when I see something I don't like.
I think we’re all pretty fed up with losing!
P.S. Is anyone really surprised or even disappointed to see guys like Seymour, Kelly, Huff, McClain and others waived, traded or not re-signed?
Then our star QB quickly showed his colors by signing with the Cardinals for the same or less than the Raiders offered to keep him.
Maybe Palmer didn't want to be attached to the Raiders rebuilding process. I get that. But didn't the Cardinals give up more sacks than any team last year? So where does Palmer think he went?
Unfortunately, this has to be a ground up process.
Steve, I agree with much of what you said. The Raiders are the worst team, with the worst stadium, etc.
But at least now we can see some light at the end of the tunnel. That's a step forward from the past 10 years.
It's got to be tough to get a stadium deal when you're the worst team. First things first.
Jones
Competitive roster what games are you watching? Bottom line its about wins and losses period. The Raiders went from 8-8 twice to 4-12 and were blown out in many games. It will probably be the same this year if not worst. As far as players taking notice and willing to sign with the Raiders, are you drunk? Who is that second tier guys being cut with no where else to go. Come on man Nick Roach is not exactly the second coming of Ray Lewis.
The Raiders are the worst team in the NFL and that is basically the consensus. How do you figure the roster has become more competitive. I deal with facts you make up things and deal in fantasy.
As far as Wimbley guess what? Edge rushers are a key to winning and they don't go for less that 8mm and the Raiders did not have one last year. Hue did amazing things with the offense and if you are denying that your a fool.
Competitive roster that is laughable let's see if you are saying that at the end of this year. But hey if your cool with the Raiders fielding the worst team in the league good for you, I mean at least the salary cap is under control lol
Steve
"Competitive roster what games are you watching?"
????Hey fucknuts, can you read? I said "INTO a MORE COMPETITIVE ROSTER"...are you NYR's clone?
Whining about 2-3 years ago is fucking pathetic, Hue Jackson was a fraud, the core players that played on that team are gone because they suck and where grossly overpaid. Go ahead and cuddle up to your Hue doll and cry the tears away, Hue ain't coming back and I hope you don't either.
JONES
Concise and yet so well articulated.
"P.S. Is anyone really surprised or even disappointed to see guys like Seymour, Kelly, Huff, McClain and others waived, traded or not re-signed?"....
WTF? Weren't you just telling me a few weeks ago that you were expecting the Raiders to "keep as many on the roster as they can"? Because a coach had said it at a press conference? You aren't surprised now? You change like the weather.
"Steve, I agree with much of what you said. The Raiders are the worst team, with the worst stadium, etc."....
Screw you, the Raiders are not the worst team, you are the worst on this board....
JONES
Oh look, the troll was just waiting for his response...NYR, you are a fraud, no different than OTB or Agent Orange...maybe you are them too? Anyways, go fuck yourself and your stupid little game.
JONES
Wow Jones you are really angry. Why are you insulting Steve for expressing an opinion different than yours.
We are all Raider fans here no need for swearing it only makes you look bad and desperate while giving credence to the other posters points and obscuring the interesting things you might write.
I think Steve and NYR make some good points: the coliseum is the worst stadium in the nfl and I am hard pressed to name a team worse that the Raiders perhaps the Jags. Furthermore Hue might have a distasteful personality but he was the best coach this team had since Gruden.
Seriously though man no need for hate. I don't think Raider Take works hard on this blog to have immature behavior like that here.
Peace and Love
Sanderson
Oh I am sorry, Sandy, did I offend you? Maybe you should go to the comment sections where there is no swearing. If you are such a pussy that you can't handle the language, maybe you should fuck off to somewhere else? Obviously you are probably the same person just fucking around on here trying to get a rise...you got one, you happy? Does it make you feel like you are worth more than the piece of shit you really are? How do you get your kicks? Now go back to your patriot sites and play nice there, ok?
JONES
What’s with all the hostility? Bad day?
”Weren't you just telling me a few weeks ago that you were expecting the Raiders to "keep as many on the roster as they can"?”
As you well know, that was the coaches suggestion at the end of the season; Jason Tarver in particular. Apparently, he didn’t get your memo.
Regardless of what was said by the coaches, dismantling the roster is no surprise. It was an option, and it was entirely up to McKenzie.
”NYR, you are a fraud.”
If we're exposing frauds, then let's talk again about your worshiping the coaches as being invincible behind a lame duck roster.... How'd that work out for you?
Tell me how I worshipped the coaches as being invincible, show me, your 'word' isn't worth much, so you will have to show proof....and if that is all you got NYR? I got a ton of shit I can throw on you, it could take days to get it all. My record speaks for itself on here as does your's....you aren't in the same league, your 'knowledge' is limited and your accuracy is poor.... sit down and stop playing your girly games. Be a man, oh yeah, that reminds me of when 'Pantywaste' made you look like a fool in taking his pathetic bet....that is just 1, if you keep it up, I'll bring out more.
JONES
"As you well know, that was the coaches suggestion at the end of the season; Jason Tarver in particular."....more lies by the troll.
Tarver said it near the end of the season and you thought he meant it. I told you Reggie was going to rid this team of all the dead wood after game 2 when they quit in Miami. You mocked me and now look, Reggie has rid the team of almost all of them.
Keep going with your inaccurate statements and your strawmen..it's all you got because you are clueless. It's been exposed, so now you go into 'let's play phony poster games'. Just keep going and you will be the next 'pantywaste' and disappear out of embarrassment.
JONES
Reggie is signing left and right and they have quality....anyone who is still saying this sucks has to be a patriots fan.
JONES
Mike Jenkins....new Raider CB question and answer.....
---A lot of the guys the Raiders are signing are saying the Raiders have a vision, what do you see that vision as being?
"They're pretty much trying to move up. They're not looking back at anything. The only thing they're doing in looking forward and that's the only thing to respect about guys like that. All the people around the building are like that. They're trying to win. They're bringing in guys who want to win and know how to win. Hopefully we can put it all together and it gels."
----You don't see the Raiders in a major rebuild?
"No, I don't see it as a re-building year. If you look at the squad and look at the guys they're bringing in right now, we're trying to win now. I don't think it's a rebuilding year. I definitely think they have that mentality."
----How many other teams were in the mix or was it just the Raiders from the start?
"There was a few other teams in the mix, but I signed with the Raiders. I'm a Raider now and I feel good about the situation. Like I said, when I came here I fell in love with those guys so the only team I want to talk about now is the Raiders which is my team."
----What specifically did you fall in love with when you met the Raiders?
"Like I said, when I went, the guys looked me in the face and were straightforward. I liked everything about the team. Like I said, I felt like they have vision. I felt like they knew where they were going, I felt like they knew what they wanted and I just wanted to be a part of that because the vision is the whole thing."
This one is for Stevie/NYR/Sandy/ whoever....
JONES
What did you expect Jenkins to say? Was he supposed to trash the Raiders? Of course not. Coming here gave him the best opportunity to start, which is something he was unable to do in Dallas and probably on most other teams. We need him and he needs us.
As for the other stuff above, well, let's not forget who became obsessed with PantyRaider and chased him around the Internet.
Sadly, Jones, the only way you can feel better about yourself is to put others down. It's been your MO since arriving here.
Have a nice day!
Raiders making some good roster moves. Inside Bay Area made a comment that we are nearing the cap again. We may have to start signing minimum contracts, or restructure McFadden.
I think we may be trading McFadden in the coming draft. Rashad Jennings is a decent back that we picked up (though no announcement by the team, Jennings tweeted he is coming). If we trade McFadden, I think we can pick up a 2nd and another 3rd rounder. Here's what it currently looks like:
Round 1,3,4,6,6 from Arizona,
6 Compensatory, and 7.
Here is my list of who I think we target:
Round 1-Tavon Austin (WR, WV) or Ezekiel Ansah (DE, BYU)
If we trade McFadden for a Round 2, we will select Robert Woods (WR, USC) if we don't take Tavon Austin. If we do take Tavon, then we will select Datone Jones (DE, UCLA) or Tank Carradine (DE, Florida State).
3rd Round-Brandon Williams (DT, Missouri Southern)
4th Round-Le'Veon Bell (RB, Michigan State). If we keep McFadden, then we will pick up Vance McDonald (TE, Rice)
6th Round (#1)- Garrett Gilkey (OG, Chadron State)
6th Round (#2)-Josh Evans (S, Florida)
6th Round (#3)-Sanders Commings (CB, Georgia)
7th Round-Joseph Fauria (TE, UCLA)
And of course NYR cannot backup what he writes, just continues to try and poke the 'bear'. Let's see, you lied about when Tarver said the team was going to keep as many as possible. You lied about the length of contracts for Burnett and Roach....you lied about me "chasing around pantywaste on the internet"....looks like your lying has no bounds, NYR. It is all about getting a rise, you don't really care about the team because all you do is complain about the new way and you don't even get any facts straight when discussing them. Fraud and a Liar, good job NYR/Sandy/Stevie/ whoever...have a shitty day.
JONES
Jones, as you stated, your record (and posts) speaks for itself.
Are you this much fun in person, too?
No I am not, if I saw you in person, you really wouldn't like me.
Are you as much a pussy in person as you are on here?
JONES
Hey Take, you know, you'd have some intelligent convo here if you booted Jones. 2017.
...anyone over the age of fifteen who refers to complete strangers as "pussies", well, there you go.
Raider Take
I recently discovered your blog and found in thoughtful and also have enjoyed the insightful comments and healthy debate of people like Calico, NY, Raider Nate 75 etc.
I concur with oaktown blues suggestion its not fun to be attacked with such rudeness by this Jones child, we are here to enjoy
Thanks
Sanderson
Sanderson - Jones is harmless. He talks to his family the same way. For what it's worth, 99% of us welcome and respect your input and hope you stick around when the fun really starts.
Thanks NYRaider. I think I am probably old older that most of the people and not used to that kind of stuff. Have a good weekend Sanderson
Hang in there Sanderson and please stick around. Some background...
I've always said that Raider Take is partly a social experiment. It's kind of like the neighborhood bar. It can get rowdy, and sometimes there's conflict or disruption, but in the end it all seems to sort itself out, and we all find a way to get along. It's been this way since the Raider Take opened its doors eight (!) seasons ago.
At times, I've really had to resist the temptation to censor particularly divisive comments and personal attacks; and I have had to delete comments on a very few extreme occasions, but other than that, it's a free-for-all.
And, in the end, I think it's a better place because of this approach. The culture and commentary here are different than anywhere else, thanks to all of you.
All that said, I always encourage everyone (including myself, I've had plenty bad moments) to do an occasional gut check and ask themselves why they're here, and if they like being here, are they being constructive or simply disruptive? It's easy to go down a rabbit hole when trading thoughts (and barbs) and to suddenly find oneself in teardown mode.
In the end, I think most if not all of us maintain a respect, if grudging at times, for the others.
The Raiders could do us all a favor by finally playing big-boy football. The neighborhood bar is always a happier place when the home team plays competitive football.
So there you have it, welcome to Raider Take, it's sort of like the Hotel California, you can check in, but few ever leave, for better or worse.
Personally, I appreciate Jones' thought provoking comments and opinions. More times than not, he gives his opinion about football related matters.
What I don't appreciate are weenies like OTB who have a few drive by comments which if you look at the oontent, 99.9% of the time have ZERO to do with Raiders football.
Case you didn't know it OTB Weenie, this is a blog about Raider football. When was the last time you actually made a comment or shared an opinion about a player, a coach, the team, the draft, etc?
Yeah, I know this was a post about other posters -- but I had to make the point nevertheless and stand by my record of offering Raider football related opinions at the RT Pub over the years.
I am willing to give honest debate without hostility...all the time I have written on here, there have been a certain "...." that wants nothing more than conflict. It continues in the name of "name dejour" ____________fill in the blank.
But when that certain element wants a reaction...I'll give it to them, their lives wouldn't be worth living if I didn't. So out of the goodness of my heart, I feed the trolls, so they can feel good about provoking a response.
I am capable of having a good football discussion, but if you want something else, I can give that too.
I am such a GIVER and still they hate me....oh well, life goes on, without me....it's kind of like when they boo a player on the visiting team that is really good. .... In the long run, the TRUTH always comes out, and that's why the liars don't last.
JONES
JONES said...
Sorry I have been off my medication for over a week now and my psychiatrist is out of town
JONES
Looks to me like our owner is going to give McKenzie & Davis the opportunity and patience to do their jobs ...
“The process of building a foundation is going to take place this year, next year, the following year,” Davis said. “It’s not just going to be a quick fix, ‘OK, hey, we’re back and this is great.’ It’s going to take awhile.”
And that’s what Davis expected when he hired McKenzie as the team’s first full-fledged general manager. McKenzie, in turn, hired Allen to succeed Hue Jackson.
“I hired Reggie knowing what the process was going to be,” Davis said. “I have no problem with where it’s going so far on the player personnel side. That’s where his expertise is. … Who knows? We could be really competitive this year. I’m not writing the season off.”
Not sure if that was the initial expectation because that's a bit different than Davis' reaction after last season. Perhaps he's now realizing things were worse than anticipated.
The same article says that he "is not accepting the fact that the Raiders can't make some noise before the root takes hold."
This is why he wasn't happy last season. He expected to be competitive; and that was something we lacked last season.
I agree with him though, there is a new feeling this season. They have made some much needed drastic cuts, and the signings they have made have made little ripples through the league.
Nick Roach, Urlacher's understudy. A guy the Bears were hoping to get to re-sign to replace Urlacher (this season). Played in all 16 games last season, had 66 combined tackles (51 solo, 15 assisted), and 1.5 sacks.
Vance Walker, a guy who was on the bench because of Babineaux in Atlanta. Played in all 16 games last season, had 32 combined tackles (21 solo, 11 assisted) and 3 sacks.
Jason Hunter was drafted the same year that Dumervil was drafted (2006) by the Packers. He was brought in by the Doncos in 2010, and moved to LB because of Dumervil, and moved back to DE after Dumervil was injured in 2011, and before he was injured himself. In 2010, he started 12 games (at LB), had 61 combined tackles (50 solo, 11 assisted), and 3 sacks.
Kevin Burnett played in all 16 games last season with 110 combined tackles (80 solo, 30 assisted) with 2.5 sacks.
These are the players we've signed that I'm most interested in. Yes, we've signed others that have made a good splash (Alex Barron, Matt Flynn, Tracy Porter, and Mike Jenkins); but these are the quiet "football" guys that Reggie talks about that are going to be the core of this team.
JUST WIN, BABY!
Mark expected the players to come through and like his Dad, he wanted to blame the Coaches for the Players failure, until he realized that the Players sucked. He now realizes that what his Dad had setup, was a disaster and the only way to fix it was to basically start over.
Imagine Al Davis being your Dad, a legend, then he passes and the team is handed to you. I'm sure emotions and respect for his Dad lead him to feel that these players could and would succeed, just needing the proper structure. NOPE, just like I learned this past season, all the old culture (Players) had to be GONE. No way it could succeed, the players were accustom to that culture of entitlement and it was their comfort zone.
The owner is in sync with the GM, the HC is in sync with the GM and the players will be in sync with the coaching if all goes well. This is all many fans have been asking for years and it's finally here. I have no complaints at this point.
JONES
I think it took many people (owner, GM, HC, fans, media) time to realize and come to grips with how bad of shape the Raiders were going into 2012 and 2013.
Some parts to the evaluation took a full season (2012) to fully understand and make the necessary adjustments.
I appreciate that M. Davis is in a hurry but not in a rush. In other words, he wants to see immediate improvements but understands it is process and that the ultimate goal will take time.
ndDCswe 5851
I am glad everyone feels good about the Raiders being crap. What a joke is this what it has come to. Are we Raider fans or Cubs fans. Someone here mentioned Alex Barron the guy was not even in football last year. Is no one pissed off that the Raiders are being laughed at. I don't have any good feelings and I don't see light at the end of the tunnel.Why? Because house cleaning or not there are like maybe 4 guys on the team who are seriously legit. Oh well I guess I will check back in around 2016?
I am glad everyone feels good about the Raiders being crap. What a joke is this what it has come to. Are we Raider fans or Cubs fans. Someone here mentioned Alex Barron the guy was not even in football last year. Is no one pissed off that the Raiders are being laughed at. I don't have any good feelings and I don't see light at the end of the tunnel.Why? Because house cleaning or not there are like maybe 4 guys on the team who are seriously legit. Oh well I guess I will check back in around 2016?
Anon:
I don't think anyone feels good about the fact that the Raiders haven't made the playoffs or had a winning record for 10 seasons running.
What some people find hope in is the fact that the tough, dirty, unpleasant business of FINALLY getting the house in order and actually building a team is underway.
I find it humorous that some fans who patiently waited 8,9,10 years while the old regime floundered away won't give a new management team a few years to build a winning, sustainable business model.
Crap is relative. 10 years of chaos and no vision with throwing crazy money at poor players.........now we see better talent, at cheaper prices being infused with CHARACTER and football IQ's. It's obviously a better long term and short term plan. If successful, Alameda will be hard pressed not to build a better stadium. The stands will be filled because Raider fans have been dying to see a real team play and contend. It's almost here and still Raider fans cry for Hue. It's hard to break old habits, I guess.
JONES
Does it really matter that someone wasn't playing in the League last year due to injury? No, because they know football, and have taken a year off to heal properly; which is smart on their part.
The players that do this, do it with the mentality that they may never play again, even if they are healthy; and they go to other teams looking for a second chance. If they find that team, they become more loyal to that team; and play their best. If there was one thing that Al Davis taught everyone in this League, was the lesson of second chances.
We are doing that with several players (Alex Barron, Tracy Porter, Mike Jenkins); and we've given that opportunity to others (Shane Lechler, Michael Huff, Phillip Wheeler, and Carson Palmer).
The excitement is not in the last 10 years, but in the years to come. A lot of us Raider fans here have been talking about a change of direction for awhile; and now we see the rugged ship, not being repaired, but being completely overhauled. It has been a long time coming for us; and the League isn't laughing; they're taking notice and are starting to quiver.
True, it may not happen this year; but it is going to happen. After this season we will have a financial situation here that we haven't seen since Bruce Allen was our GM. We will be able to go after top young talent in the draft, as well as filling in holes with stout veteran leadership. The autumn wind is breathing new life for Raider Nation, and we can't help but be excited for that.
JUST WIN, BABY!
New take is up. All hands on deck, this is something we are going to all want to read and discuss...
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