Sunday, November 22, 2009

Bengals Game Thread

Well, the hour is nigh, and the Gradkowski era is upon us. One thing is for sure: it cannot be any worse than the Russell era, right?

Of course, I thought nothing could be worse than our 2006 offense, and now look at us.

I honestly think Gradkowski will be a shot in the arm. I'm not saying he's our quarterback of the future, but I think he gives us the best chance to win right now. It's a tall order against the new Bengals, but the Eagles were a tall order, too.

So all I can say now is: Go Raiders!!!

201 Comments:

Blogger Raider Take said...

Hey, Gradkowski already has half as many passing touchdowns as Russell this year. Hooray!

2:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So I'm watchin' the Raiders, and I'll be damned if a freakin' real football game didn't break out!!!!!!

ZERO penalties until Routes roughing the passer, and we STILL heald them out of the endzone.

Bengals up by 7, just need a nice long drive for a TD to get the D some rest......

GO RAIDERS!!!

-moshbucket

3:17 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

Good job, Gradkowski, but you'd better look out. RT will fine you for wearing that hat-to-the-back. You're at a football game for crying out loud! :)

4:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That was awesome. nuff said.
-moshbucket

Hopefully they'll put that one on NFL Replay this week.

4:30 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

Jack said:

"Jones: You know it and I know it that the Niners and Raiders will not be sharing a stadium in the Bay Area. Talk about delusional thinking ... keep dreamin'."


READ....http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/11/22/BAFI1AO83C.DTL

How bout them RAIDERS! Nice win, good to see them play with passion again. Maybe pulling JR was what they needed, the team gave up on him...maybe JR will grow from this, or, he will pick up his marbles and go home.

JONES

4:40 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Awesome! Good for Gradkowski, nice start to his starting role. Wasn't always pretty, but he took care of business, and so did our defense. Gradkowski now has as many TD passes as Russell.

Hey, he can wear that hat backwards all he wants. Now if he gets yanked and puts a clown hat on, then we'll have a problem!

4:40 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

There should be no doubt that Russell was a huge part of the Raiders problems on the field. Now, if we can just get DHB off the field, maybe we can stay competitive.

For Russell, he should get a copy of the game film and watch it about 150 times. Gradkowski, if only unspectacular, showed Russell about half of what he still doesn’t understand about being a QB.

Top ten Russell deficiencies exposed by Gradkowski:

10 - found open receivers
9 - use of pump-fake
8 - decent play-action
7 - ran a 2-min offense
6 - managed the clock
5 - able to quick snap and spike the ball
4 - threw the ball away effectively when in trouble
3 - scrambled to avoid pressure
2 - accurate soft touch passes on screens and check downs
1 - inspired the play of other players

On the other side of the ball, I would say it was impossible that the D gave up 177 yards rushing. They played aggressive and made several tackles behind the LOS.

Good for Routt to come back after that stupid helmet hit on Palmer and make one of the biggest plays of the game with a sack.

5:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NY- you stole my thunder. Get DHB on the sideline and go with Murphy and Schillens. If they do that the Raiders are once again legit.




RaiderMike

5:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

DHB did make a few plays. He saved in INT on an underthrown ball in the endzone and had one catch (not sure about drops this game). The one in the back of the enzone he was doubled coverd and not open, Grad should have went somewhere else with the ball.

He plays hard, study's hard, and is a team player. He's a freakin' rookie, I say cut him some slack and atleast give him his rookie year. I'll take DHB, his growing pains, and the chance he never pans out over a TO type ANY DAY.
JMHO

-moshbucket

6:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NYRaider,

I'll add number 11 to that list. Gradkowski effectively used the bark cadence at the line of scrimmage to draw the Bengals into two false start\encroachment penalties.

I don't think I ever heard Russell at the line of scrimmage. Either his voice is too soft or his cadence is not effective, or both.

8:34 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

Just as all the ADDSers were so happy to rush in here after a blowout loss... let me have pleasure in telling all of you to go fuck yourselves.


HA HA RAIDERS... sucks to be you!!

Wink wink nudge nudge

8:54 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

If this were a blowout loss there would be like 50 posts here... funny how a win vs one of the NFL's elite teams draws such silence from the ADDSers. he he


GO RAIDERS! 9-7 baby!!!

9:11 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

I had a great vantage point of watching a professional footoball QB operate when on the sideline.

My nephew & I were in Section 117, Row 25 behind the Raider bench. Our seats allowed us to watch Ski interact with teammates, coaches, review game photos, pat guys on the butt, fire them up, etc.

The guy was talking with individual players, boosting their morale and confidence and generally in charge and fully engaged. It was as plain as day that the Raider players respect & play hard for Ski.

Seeing Ski in person for the 1st time I was pleasantly suprised with his arm strength and overall athleticism. He had excellent command of the huddle, at the LOS, and acted decisively when the pocke broke down.

The crowd was relatively small but it is amazing how loud & supportive the fans can be when watching the Raiders play competitive, spirited, mostly competent football.

10:39 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

moshbucket - how can you defend playing a guy as our #1 WR who has, what, 8 catches after 10 games?

That's right, he is a rookie, and should be played sparingly until, if and when, he develops into a decent WR.

Meanwhile, he dropped another very catchable 3rd down pass yesterday, after which he was loudly booed.

It's time to for the Raiders to back off and stop pressing this kid.

5:06 AM  
Blogger H said...

Hey Guys,

I was honesty thinking my return would be after another bad game where Ocho Cinco had three TD's.

I was somewhat encouraged when Ski was named starter though I thought it too late in the season for the psyche of the team. I wanted him about 4-5 games ago. I figured we couldn't do worse, but dang, we did better.

This is hard because I was all for drafting Russell.

The big number rushing was mostly the fault of one 60+ yarder. But, we still kept them out of the end zone. And, a corner blitz put Cincy far enough away to creat a miss opportunity.

Appologizes for not being around. Whatever this mess I have is, it started lifting about two weeks ago. Doctors are still scratching their heads. But, I seem to be in remission again for however long it last. The only thing they can agree on is that I have to see a surgeon and get my back repaired. If the surgeon thinks he can do me any good.

Oh well, at least I should still be here when my first grandbaby arrives next April.

This defense, even with the ups and downs is much improved over last year.

Gradkowski's performance was what I alluded to earlier this year. Solid. For us to improve the QB doesn't have to be spectacular. Good enough to keep the run defenses honest.

I'll still be in and out since I'm not quite back to normal.

Moshbucket, damn good comment.

Quick closing comment. Just how many of those offensive penalties early on were indirectly caused by ineffective QB play. Players feeling they needed a jump on the defense to try and get an advantage.

I hope Russell was paying attention.

H

5:16 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Gary, thanks for so concisely summing up your intellect.

No, we're all still here, rain or shine, win or lose. Unlike you.

7:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NY,
How can I defend him?
Because I don't believe in one sided discussions.
I told you why I defended him, did you miss that????

You seem to be like most fantasy footballers where all you look at is the stat line, and not all the things that happen that don't go into the stat line.

I'll reitteriate my defense:

Hard worker, team player, good downfield blocker, doesn't quit.
The 1 catch he had was a KEY 3rd down conversion on opponents sideline. Sure he bobbled it a bit, but he caught it.
Then he had the KEY pass defense on the underthrown ball in the endzone. Maybe we should convert him to DB ;-)

-moshbucket

7:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

H,
Good to hear from you. Hang in there, and try to keep a positive mindset. Believe it or not, that makes a big difference in health and recovery.
-moshbucket

7:31 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Holy crap, I was just watching the postgame interviews, and damned if we don't have Dr. Evil at QB now!!!

Dion and Eisen were calling him Dr.B??? I like Dr. Evil!

Bruce is lightyears ahead of Jamarcus in game management and reading Defenses.
Audibles at the line and everything! It was great to watch.
I was concerned when he got hurt (not sure what he hurt), but he came back.

Russell would have been a monster back in the 60s/70s, and maybe even 80's, but the D's are so complex these days, you have to be able to read them, and adjust at the line, etc. not sure JRuss has it in him.

Dr. Evil showed plenty armstrength.
That underthrown ball that DHB had to defend in the endzone, Dr. Evil was hit during the throw, and he still got it downfield.

Sapp said we play worse when we feel the best, so Thanksgiving will be interesting. If we can establish the run, and keep Dr. Evil on his feet, I think the D can handle the Boys.
Sucks to have only 3 days to prepare, but big D is in the same boat, and we have much more film on thier QB than they have on ours (for whatever that's worth).

-moshbucket

7:41 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Nice game for the D overall. Meanwhile, Rob Ryan's defense gave up 5 touchdowns to Matthew Stafford.

CJ's observations are sure interesting, seeing Gradkowski still playing the game when he was on the sidelines.

Good for him (and Frye), just being patient, biding his time with class like a professional as the Russell experiment fizzled. He waited for his moment, then seized it.

I'd like to see the DHB experiment put on ice, at least in the featured role. It's really gotten to the point of unfairness to the rest of the team.

Bush, four carries? Hmmm...Yes, he fumbled, but it happens. I think the guy has great potential. Will he ever get consistent reps? I don't know what the answer is. We've got DMac and Fargas in a sort of three-headed attack. It's functional, but at some point, it would be nice to see one of them rise up into a true consistent threat. Not sure if that's possible with such limited carries.

Anyhow, great game, gutsy to the end. Bravo!

7:41 AM  
Anonymous Arkansan Raider said...

Very pleased with as much of the game as I got to watch.

Gradkowski is lookin' good from here. I really don't care which of the QBs plays as long as it's a Raider win.

We could sure use a more consistent OL, but I'll take the win.

JMHSO

---Jeff

9:34 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

I repeat.

Bilge Pump Gradkowski. This guy is the real deal. He's damn good. And now JaMarcus must beat him out at QB, or collect his marbles and go home.

We are far better off than we were two weeks ago.

Get well, H. It's nice to have you around. By the way, I was able to spend two days and three nights at Gettysberg a few weeks ago. All I can say is, wow.

9:45 AM  
Blogger H said...

Thanks to all for thinking of me.

Blanda,

Did the Gettysberg bus tour two years back when I was in Harrisonburg, PA.

Amazing.

Gradkowski's footwork, set up and release. All look like a guy on fast forward compared to Russell.

His mobility also way above. Can we do better at the position, most likely. But, maybe Gradkowski is seizing his opportunity. We shall see. Tough road game on Thursday.

H

H

10:11 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Mosh - what can I say? Nice guys finish last.

For all DHB's endearing traits, the one trait you left out is hands down the most important - he doesn't (possibly can't) catch the ball with any regularity.

He's been thrown to roughly 35 times this year, with 8 +/- receptions. Sure, some were bad throws, but there were plenty of catchable balls that bounced off his chest or fell right out of his hands, including the short pass he dropped on 3rd down Sunday.

As you pointed out, he bobbled the lone catch he made.

Imagine for a second a Bill Belichick-coached team leaving DHB in as #1 WR with more drops than catches.

Do you remember the patience Belichick showed Doug Gabriel? I'm thinking DHB would have already been waived by Belichick. No, he wouldn't have drafted him to begin with.

You're right, we don't need a prima donna like T.O., but we do need a WR. And if my memory serves me, this last year was rich with FA WRs, which the Raiders passed on.

I won't bother citing the Crabtree argument... but he did have like 4 more grabs and a TD on Sunday.

10:17 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

H, take a look at Gradkowski's history on Wiki, and see if you can explain to me why he wasn't drafted until the 6th round.

He was drafted by Tampa as camp fodder, but worked his way up to start when Sims went down, and started 11 games. He was interupted by Gruden's frustration of working with rookies, and sent packing. But St. Louis never gave him any chance at all, and neither did the Browns.

As soon as he was released by the Browns, Hackett demanded he be snatched up, because Hackett had worked with him in Tampa. Gradkowski shows that he has been learning all of his lessons since his rookie season (only drafted one year before JRuss), where JRuss hasn't.

He doesn't have the arm that JRuss has, but has much better accuracy, checks down, looks off receivers, communicates with his teammates, and has all of the other intangibles.

We got us a QB controversy. Gradkowski is the real deal.

10:20 AM  
Blogger H said...

Blanda,

Hope you are right. But his stats and winning percentage, while better than Russell's, might explain his sixth round selection.

However, most sixth round quarterbacks don't make it through camp. The Bradys are major exceptions.

H

12:43 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Blanda - I’ll tip my hat to Gradkowski. He played the best game for a Raider QB this year, and made plays when he had to. Gradkwoski showed what it takes to win... dare I say, with a little Rich Gannon mentality.

He worked hard to prepare for the game, then was fully engaged during the game, in the huddle and on the sideline.

We’ll see if he can bring that level of intensity week after week. It sure makes it easier to root for, and watch the Raiders play when they field players that you can believe in.

I read in the media that Russell came out fired up for the game. One writer said he took part in sideline strategy talks and appeared more involved in the offense than he has all season. That pretty much says it all.

2:00 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

nyraider, I really get the feeling that the players have been lobbying behind the scenes to get Gradkowski in there. He made an immediate impact, even in practice. JMac reported that receptions in practice were way up.

It appears to me that Gradkowski not only fully understands the playbook, but also the strengths and weaknesses of each of his teammates.

When I said last week that JRuss could be the problem regarding our WRs, Gradkowski showed the perfect example on that TD to Murphy. JRuss would have stayed with McFadden and the ball would have come down incomplete or intercepted. Instead, Gradkowski instantly perceived that McFadden wasn't open enough, and threw immediately to Murphy. Not only that, but Gradkowski had anticipated that occurance during the week and, according to Murphy, they had practiced it accordingly.

THAT is NFL leadership! There is indeed a lot of Jeff Garcia in Mr. Gradkowski. They even look a little alike (actually, they look a lot alike - and move alike - and I suspect that's why the team made no effort to keep Garcia around).

I'm not ready to throw JRuss away just yet, and JRuss got a full on demonstration of what emotion and preparation can bring to a game. But JRuss should be placed on a very short leash, and only be given the starter's job back if he legitimately beats Gradkowski for the job.

2:16 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

And for those who believe that the Raiders and 49ers could not possibly coexist in the same stadium, there's this:

"According to the Chronicle's Matier and Ross, the environmental review and design for a proposed 49ers stadium in Santa Clara includes the possibility of accommodating a second team, perhaps the Oakland Raiders.

"Apparently, if the Santa Clara City Council approves the environmental impact report next month, the two-team option will be part of the plan on the ballot before voters."

Added to this is the fact that the 9ers hope to have the stadium built by 2014, and the fact that Al Davis has extended his Oakland lease through 2013.

Hmmm... What does that tell you?

4:12 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Take, do you believe that is almost certainly and indication that Davis is moving back to LA?

4:14 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Blanda, back away from the Straw Man, please.

I simply observed that the lease extension of three years does not preclude a move to L.A., as some, such as yourself, seemed to believe.

When I asked if you were saying it did preclude a move to L.A. or anywhere else, you conveniently didn't reply to the question.

It was a simple observation. Let's stick to the facts.

I don't believe that this story about a Santa Clara stadium is an an indication of anything. I don't believe that the plan for a L.A. stadium is an indication of anything. I don't believe that a three-year least extension is an indication of anything.

I do believe that the Raiders are looking for a new place to play.

Will that be alongside the 49ers in Santa Clara? Who knows.

5:07 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

I'm not going to get too crazy about Gradkowski just yet, but if not for DHB's Hands of Concrete, that would have likely been two last-minute victory drives in a row, which is pretty impressive

It's easy to forget that the last drive against the Chiefs began at our own 20, and we'd have been on their 10 yard line if not for Hands of Cement.

So we know the dude can play under pressure, that's for sure.

5:33 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

The key to gaining traction is consistency. We take some incremental baby steps such as putting back to back games together.

I like many of the intangibles that Ski brings to the table ... effort, preparation, mobility, decisiveness, athleticism, and can-do spirit.

Ski has a wonderful opportunity in the next 6 games to prove his value for 2010.

Can anyone on this board give me a reasonable explanation for why a WR can't play anywhere on the field? This question is in reference to Cable reducing Murphy's snaps because he "plays" the same side of the field as Schillens.

Why on earth can't Murphy & Schillens be the primary 2 WRs with DHB a spot player?

I think Schillens, Murphy, Miller, and McFadden would be a good mix of targets to receive the bulk of the receptions.

6:58 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

BTW, what's up with Gary's hostility?

6:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NY,
Not denying he has trouble catching the ball, you just asked why I defended him. In our current state, I think it's better to try to develop him. He's getting paid and is on the cap. We're going nowhere this year (well, we're not mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, but..), Al said we're throwing them to the wolfs this year, it is what it is. Some people hate it, some people don't mind so much (given the current situation).

CJ,
The 'side of the field' thing is because they're all basically rookies, and Cable said early that we're tearing it down and simplifying it, then try to build it back up.
Most coaches turn green when you mention starting a rookie WR, and we're running 3 and a sophomore. In this scenario, you're more likely to execute if the rooks' are responsible for half of the playbook. I think the benifits (less blown routes, ususally cause INT's) outweigh the negative (less felxability in WR sets and shrunken playbook).

I realize DHB has stone hands. But he is helping stretch the field somewhat. If he can get those hands to more of a clay or silly-putty consistency, he might be able to do some damage in this league.

-moshbucket

7:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So I'm at physical therapy today to work on my knee, guess who was in there working on his arm?

None other than Bob Sanders. I didn't get to speak to him, but my rehab technician guy was having a discussion with Bob about who was better the Saints or the Pats (rehab guy is from Boston).

Anyway, I promise if I get a chance I'll try to put on my recruiter hat!!!

That said, he was probably just there for the day to see Dr. Andrews, and happend to be doing his work for the day.

-moshbucket

7:31 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Mosh is hanging with the elite Dr. James Andrews. Who's going to cook your Thanksgiving dinner? Martha Stewart? Who's going to sing at your birthday party? Bono?

7:54 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Sorry Mosh,

I don't buy your explanation on how the WR's are currently being used. In my view there are 2 things to consider;

(1) Playing to win. Give your best players the most reps. possible. Murphy is better than DHB and deserves to be on the field more regardless of what side of the field he is lined up.

(2) Player development. Both Murphy and DHB are rookies. Both are in the stages of learning their craft. Part of Murphy's development should be playing all over the field to include DHB's "side".

Making excuses (rookies, simplifying the offense, one side of the field, etc) for Cable's use of his WRs is inexcusable.

What does this really boil down to? I will take Murphy "learning" to play on DHB's side while DHB "learns" how to catch a ball in practice reps. and 3 WR sets. DHB should receive about 20 snaps per game (roughly 1/3) at the most.

8:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

CJ, you said:
"I don't buy your explanation on how the WR's are currently being used."

Ok, so what's your explanation why they are being used that way???
The discussion is not how do we think they should be used, it's why are they being used the way they are being used. I'm not selling anything, I'm just tell 'em how I see 'em, and that's what I'm seeing.

I'm not saying it's justified or not, I'm just saying I think that's what's happening.

-moshbucket

8:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Take,

I'm still debating on thanksgiving, probably either Emeril or Ramsey.
Birthday gig will definately be Slayer.

Luckily Andrews is a BlueCrossBlueShieldOfAlabama PMD (prefered medical doctor), so I can use his guys. Saw him a few times at PT today, but he didn't actually work on me.

-moshbucket

8:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OK, so I didn't realize Bob has been so injury prone.
But I also didn't realize that Ronnie lot only completed 5 of his 15 seasons.

-moshbucket

8:45 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Mosh:

My theory is that Cable is a puppett who is on the strings of Al Davis. That is the only logical, reaonsable explanation for why a guy who continually drops easy balls gets starter's minutes.

How else do you explain DHB starting 10 straight games, getting the vast majority of snaps when he has caught less than 1 ball per game (7 receptions in 10 games) and 10 yards total yards per game, and has zero TDs?

9:43 PM  
Blogger 123 123 said...

Cool story as for me. I'd like to read something more about this topic.
BTW look at the design I've made myself Young escorts

4:07 AM  
Blogger H said...

Take,

What’s this about Sonny Bono singing at Moshbucket’s birthday party?

Moshbucket,

Well, maybe you can talk Dr. Andrews into doing my back surgery.

Ok, Romo is hurting, but will play. Get a decent amount of pressure on the guy and he may make a couple of mistakes. He is prone to throwing into double coverage.

Gradkowski with more time under his belt may do even better. About a month ago I said I wasn’t ready to put all the blame on DHB as long as I was seeing all the bad throws from Russell. That has been changed.

What I hope to see is Cable do what he said. Tui was supposed to start the remainder of the season under Norv. He only got one start, with a bad game plan.

Just food for thought, but has Russell had his eyes checked for depth perception. He continuously over throws, under throws or throws behind the receiver on crossing patters.

The playing only one side of the field is a bit tough to handle with it comes to the rookie argument. It might be true, but when I watch Alabama Julio Jones has lined up wide or in the slot on both sides. So have Darius Hanks and Marquis Maze. Jones is a true sophomore.

JMHSO

H

5:28 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Al Davis is making a hypocrite of Tom Cable by forcing him to play DHB more snaps than any other WR. By that I mean Cable has stated he will field the players that give the Raiders the best chance to win. Well, evidence to the contrary.

Bey is not ready to be an NFL WR, and may never be ready. Ochocinco explained it well, stating that some WRs fight the ball. That’s exactly what Bey does. I have not micro-analyzed every one of his numerous catches (7), but I have yet to see him catch a ball cleanly. It either bounces off his chest or his hands before he reels it in.

6:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

CJ,
You said:
"How else do you explain DHB starting 10 straight games..."

I've already presented my theory, I'm not typing it again.

I knew you were going to say Cable was Al's puppet, and there's a good chance you are right. I'm not denying that. But that doesn't change my theory at all.

The discussion was not WHO was making the calls, but WHY they are making these calls. What's the reasoning behind playing DHB, not WHO decided to play him.

-moshbucket

8:53 AM  
Blogger H said...

In case I don't check in tomorrow, I want to wish all here a most Happy Thanksgiving.

We will see if Ski can pull out two in a row.

H

9:22 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Calico, there is a reason why playing one side as WR is different than the other. It may not be significant enough for you, but it was significant enough for Tim Brown and Jerry Rice to argue over.

One side is a Flanker (who plays a yard or so off the line) and the other is a Split End (who plays right on the line). The Split End is likely to be jammed by the corner, but the Flanker has the opportunity to juke his man and immediately break free.

Your larger, stronger receiver will usually be chosen to play the Split End, and your light weight, speed guy will be the Flanker. Because of the interference, the timing of the two positions are completely different. If you are dealing with inexperienced rookies, you want to minimize the complications.

You're free to agree or disagree with Cable, but that's his thinking.

9:41 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Mosh, "why" is a dangerous question that my have no logical answer when it comes to the Raiders.

Why draft DHB in the first place? I mean, there's an existential question if I ever heard one.

Then, why keep starting him now? Who knows? Stubborness?

He doesn't give us the best chance to win, which is the only "why" that matters, right? All other "whys" after that are immaterial.

9:53 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

While I disagree with the amount of playing time DHB is getting, I understand it.

As moshbucket says, it was clear to me that the primary goal this season was for Cable to find out what we have. We were going to throw JRuss, DHB and Murphy to the wolves. While it can be argued that that is not a sufficient commitment to winning for this season, it represents to me a long term solution to what has become a long term problem.

I would have, however, approached it differently. Since Murphy has close to the same speed and size as DHB, I'd have had him learn both flanker and split end. During Schilen's injury I'd have played Walker at split end a lot of the time while using Murphy as the flanker. I'd be using Higgins for the slot, since that position matches his skills (to catch the ball underneath and run for yardage). With the return of Schilens, I'd have him constantly as the possession receiver (split end) while switching off DHB and Murphy at flanker.

But I doubt Cable (or Al) are just being arbitrary. They both would have reasons. They are not required to explain to me what those reasons are. I can only surmise.

10:00 AM  
Anonymous tinfoil said...

Whoa.

I wondered into a Raiders chatroom and the word EXISTENTIAL pops up!

I gotta admit, I wanted Crabtree and was furious when I heard on the Radio that DHB was the pick.

All I could think of was that hellacious catch near the sidelines that Crab made to beat Texas. This guy was our next Freddy B or Tim Brown.

And where the hell has Javon Walker been all year?

Once again, I'm with Take.

Not sure if I'm scarred or looking forward to TGiving game v Cowboys. We haven't won a nationally televised games since Kerry Collins beat Broncos in snow late in 2004.

Thats a long dry spell.

10:08 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

I'm okay with continually playing DHB and Murphy because of what it could mean to the future.

I'm not on board the bus that says that DHB is a talentless bust. DHB was an excellent college WR, while limited to a "stretch the defense" role. That role requires him to grow consistent in catching the football on the lowest percentage pass plays. He has grown into a complete football player under Raider coaching with the exception of seemingly having a complete mental block to catching the football.

DHB's other football skills show great promise, and Murphy is coming along as well. Both have become extremely tight with each other. Over the long haul, this could lead to a Biletnicoff/Branch type partnership.

Granted, it's costing us greatly this season, but over the long haul it could wind up being very positive, and may be worth the risk of sacrificing this season. Mental blocks don't last forever.

I've seen much talk around here praising seasonal surprise teams. Like Miami last season, or Atlanta. These teams turn out to be one year wonders, and then drop back out of contention. I'd like to see us build a team which has a foundation that will last a decade, not a series of stop-gaps designed to get us through one season with one or two more wins.

10:37 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

One of the things I keep hearing about Gradkowski's performance on Sunday is that "he was no Payton Manning." Well... He also doesn't have Payton Manning's WRs nor Payton Manning's offensive line. Bruce Gradkowski used only the tools he had to engineer a victory for a 2-7 team against a 7-2 opponent. You just can't minimize the props he should get for that.

10:58 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Sorry, there is simply no point or precedence for still starting DHB.

It's unfair to Gradkowski and the rest of the team.

I understand needing to develop young players. That's why JRuss played in 10 games, right? But there's also a point when it becomes pointless and counterproductive. There's a point when you still need to think about winning games. Which is why JRuss was pulled, right?

There's no reason DHB's skills cannot be developed with reasonable playing time.

What he's getting is unreasonable playing time.

You don't jeopardize the chance to compete and the chance to gain serious winning momentum after all these years for the sake of coddling DHB.

You don't jeopardize the opportunity to get Gradkowski's starting role off to an amazing start by giving him anything less than the best receivers to work with.

You just don't. But that's what we're doing. There's no justification for it.

11:52 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Well, having not seen him play this season, I don't know that Walker is playing any better than DHB. I also don't know what's going on with Higgins, but he can't seem to get into a ball game and his use is being questioned even on kick returns. Nick Miller hasn't been available yet this season.

So you can make all of the arguments you want about DHB's overuse, but there may not be reasonable alternatives. Sometimes you just have to accept the reasoning of the coaching staff. And haven't you argued that a coach should have control over his roster? Or should the judgement of fans now determine it?

It's not saying that fans don't have the right to question what coaches do, but the coach also has the right not to explain it to you in detail.

12:15 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Take, I've explained my objections to DHBs playing time in detail. But Cable's going to do what Cable's going to do. It's his job to lose. But I'll let you know when he sends an answer to my questions. Be sure and let me know if he sends answers to yours.

Thanks.

12:20 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

I doubt that he can explain it, hence his silence.

A coach should have control over his roster. You are correct. So why doesn't our coach have control over his roster?

Jerry Mac says: "DHB is playing as much as he plays because of a mandate, and it's not from Tom Cable."

There's your "why."

Murphy is still a #2 receiver, and DHB a #1 receiver.

Those roles should immediately be reversed, effective several weeks ago.

12:26 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

I see you're now resorting to your snarky "They don't have to tell you what they're doing" line, as if that makes everything okay and above criticism. Weak, very weak.

12:28 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I don't have his college stats right in front of me, but I remember plenty of criticism surrounding DHB prior to and during the draft. Much of that criticism has been proven accurate.

Besides his blazing speed, the Raiders selected him because they said the program he was in best resembled a "pro-style" offense. As it turns out, that information, by itself, was pretty useless.

Continuing to march this kid "out to the wolves" by giving him 55-60 snaps a game tells every player and every fan that the Raiders are not committed to winning now...

By extension, maybe we should all tune back in next year.

I wouldn't mind losing every game this year if I thought there was a plan in place that would carry the Raiders forward to help prevent stupid decisions (and indecision) that has plagued them in the past.

As it stands, all I can hope for is to watch them occasionally play competitive football, knowing that, despite another high draft pick, we will probably be no better off next year... as history has taught us.

12:33 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Here's your DHB draft analysis from NFL.com. Look at the negatives. Are you surprised?

Positives: Exceptional straight-line speed. Opponents must account for his deep speed on every play. Too fast off the snap for most defenders to challenge him in press coverage. Long, lean athlete with long arms and strong hands. Has the agility to make plays in space. Reads the field and can follow his blocks to generate yards after the catch. Can snatch the ball out of the air. Learning to better use his height as an advantage. Good leaping ability and has become more consistent in timing his leaps.

Negatives: Bit of a one trick pony at this time. Might be the draft's most dangerous vertical threat, but offers little else. Long-legged and struggles to generate consistent separation out of his cuts. Not as consistently effective on jump balls as he should be, considering his natural size advantage. Too often double-clutches the ball. Questionable toughness running across the middle. Lacks strength and consistent effort as a downfield blocker.

12:35 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Take, as I read that, his positives are pretty positive. No? As for his negatives, they have certainly shown up - except for one. He's now a consistently good down field blocker.

Of course, that must be it. Cable hasn't explained things to the fans, so they can't be explained.

As for JMac's comment about Cable's mandate, that's based on what - exactly. The perception that Al Davis controls everything? So Cable has no decision making power of his own? Weak.

The coach has no decision making power - Davis prefers speed - so that perfectly relates why DHB is there and not someone else. But how does it explain that under Gruden the Raiders fielded two wide receivers who's speed days were far behind them (Rice and Brown). It's true they had James Jett, but Gruden seemed to have the ability to refuse to play him.

When you can explain to me all of the diversity of moves from coach to coach, then you can argue to me that Cable has no decision making ability on his own.

And after spending as much money as he has on JRuss and DHB, I can perfectly understand the desire to squeeze production out of these guys even with initial failure. I'm certain that Cable, like every other coach in the NFL, will attempt to give the owner what he wants.

nyraider, I think you have to look at the larger picture. Are the Raiders determined to win this year, even at the expense of passing on adjustments that need to be made over the longer haul? Are you satisfied with just attempting to win this year, and let the chips next year fall where they may - even though they might fall right back to losing?

Given Al Davis' mind set, I think he's going for the long haul. He wants to set up the nucleus of a dynasty that will be in place when he's gone from the picture. No owner and no coach, when coming to such a decision, is going to tell the fans that we'll sacrifice some wins this season in favor of the larger picture. That's their decision to make, but they aren't going to publicize it. Otherwise, as you say, the fans will just stay home this season. It may not seem fair, but every team in the NFL will make the same calculation when the time comes, even though they may come to a different decision.

1:13 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Blanda, I've just figured it out, you ARE Al Davis. That explains everything, including why you would embrace an assessment of a top draft pick that includes the following line: "Might be the draft's most dangerous vertical threat, but offers little else."

Cable has some control, but not ultimate control over who starts, which means at any moment, he can be told whom to play. Hence, DHB still starting.

That is not Cable's call. It is Al Davis's call. So they are co-coaches.

If it was Cable's call, then he shouldn't be allowed to coach another season with the Raiders, because it's a horrible decision that seriously impacts our ability to establish desperately needed winning momentum.

1:24 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

And here's another reality. Before this season almost everyone here was complaining that Davis just insists on reloading every year - even when a rebuild is necessary. And we need to rebuild.

Well, Al set about rebuilding last season. Now that we are 3-7, everyone is complaining that they don't like the progress of the rebuild.

Has it occurred to anyone that nobody is going to like any direction that Al takes until there is a solid string of Ws on the schedule?

Right now I see a more solid group of players then we've had over the past 6+ years. Right now I see them finally beginning to learn that they have to play all 60 minutes of a football game after a solid week of preparation. I see that the defense has come together and can likely compete with anybody if they get sufficient offensive support. I see a possible answer to our QB problem in Bruce Gradkowski - at least he certainly improves the situation. I see two really good receivers coming into their own (Miller and Schilens), another who is improving (Murphy) and one who is improving mightily at the intangibles but way under-speed at mastering his primary function.

I also see a running back who is finding his way to becoming an every down back (Bush), a RB who is finding a utility role who can allow for disguising plays (McFadden), and another who is the strongest of team leaders.

I see the 3-7 record, but I also see a team preparing to rise to the next level, and struggling to find the consistency to get there.

Some folks only seem to see a 3-7 record.

1:32 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Take, you show me that you can grasp hold of conventional wisdom and hang onto it like a Biblical commandment. But you can't show me anything that says that Cable doesn't chose who starts a game - other than the OPINION of "journalists."

1:41 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

I'll tell you what, Take. Point me to one Raider coach in the history of the Raiders who says that Al Davis chooses the starting players on game day.

Oh, wait a minute. There was actually ONE. Al Davis (he coached in the early '60s though, before Al Davis was the owner).

1:47 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

If still starting DHB is Cable's call, then he should have his head examined and his a** chewed by Al Davis, and should probably be terminated for the absurdity of it all.

Explain that.

2:01 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

As I say, Take, Cable doesn't discuss it with me, so I don't know all of his reasons. Nor do I presume he doesn't have any.

If the team does not show significant improvement this year, Cable will be terminated. So I have to assume he understands the risk.

2:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blanda,
Thanks for taking the baton ;-)

You took the words right out of my mouth how people bitch about Al reloading, and now that he's rebuilding, they bitch about that (litterally, you wrote almost exactly what I was going to).

As far as people saying "where's walker?"... Probably out makin' it rain somewhere. From the time he came here, he talked about what great shape he was in etc. Then this offseason he has kneesurgery in europe behind our backs and says his knee is finally back to normal and it hasn't in a long time. He's a joke, and he's on the injury report each week with a hamstring anyway.

Has anyone heard anything from Timmy lately? I would like to hear his thoughts on DHB.

-moshbucket

3:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Someone mentioned DHB should be learning in practice and not on the field (debatable how much you can learn in practice vs/ on the field).

That reminded me of something I heard recently. Several people around the NFL (I think Madden included?) are talking about limiting or eliminating pads and helmets in practice. I think people will get killed, literally, on gameday if that ever happens.

-moshbucket

3:08 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Blanda - Does rebuilding include trading a first round draft pick for a 10-year vet? This isn’t about rebuilding. If the Raiders were going to rebuild, you’d hope they wouldn’t wallow through 7 years of misery first.

I’m still trying to figure out what will happen with Russell after Davis stated publicly that Kiffin didn’t want to draft him. It’s just a matter of time before Russell is back in there showing us why he was pulled in the first place.

3:21 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Yeah, that's what I was wondering, you draft a project at WR while ignoring the lines, then give away a first rounder for a 10-year vet to patch up the line that you've serially ignored, and you still don't hire a GM, and suddenly that's called "rebuilding"?

3:27 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Take, did you send Al a rebuilding blue print? Did he ignore it? Damn!

3:34 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Um, calling an eight year vet a ten year vet doesn't make him over the hill. And do you argue that we didn't need that kind of leadership on the D-line? Personally, I think Seymore was a damned good aquisition and he's helped considerably.

Did we need a GOOD veteran presence in our WR corps? You bet? I suggested it myself before the season started. But on the other hand, I didn't see any kind of long term solution on the waiver wire, and working out a trade for one takes the cooperation of two parties. We had that for the Seymore trade, but I didn't hear of any offers regarding WRs. Did you?

3:46 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

What will happen with Russell.

If he takes the hint, and improves his game to the extent that he can legitimately climb over Gradkowski, then he'll be back on the field as the starter. If he fails to beat out Gradkowski, Al will ask him to rework his contract to reflect being the #2.

If he refuses to rework his contract, Al will attempt to trade him - but by first telling JRuss that he will only be able to trade him if his contract is reworked. If Al can't trade him, he'll be released with the hope that someone else picks him up, and Al will have wasted a considerable amount of money. But he won't be out a Quarterback. He'll still have Gradkowski.

Isn't that pretty much the NFL scenario for the considerable amount of instances where first rounders don't pan out?

3:55 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I like Seymour, and he's proven to be a class act, but I don't see how he's helped "considerably." We have three wins and more blowout losses than I can ever remember. I feel bad for a tremendous player being thrown into an impossible situation.

3:59 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Not to burst the bubble, but Gradkowski is probably one bad game removed from being right back where he was two weeks ago (same thing happened to Tui a few years ago).

Conversely, Davis has 60 million reasons and a larger than life ego that says Russell will be the starter again.

Worst case, Russell's thrown back in as starter to begin next season after another marginal pre-season, and with not much more understanding of his job responsibilities than he has now.

Personally, I don't believe Russell has what it takes to be a consistent winning NFL QB. However, if what I describe is where we're headed, then I'd rather they try and work Russell back into the mix this year... for any chance he could advance his skills.

If not, that begs the question, why leave DHB in there, but leave Russell on the bench to rot?

4:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"If not, that begs the question, why leave DHB in there, but leave Russell on the bench to rot?"

C'mon, Man! The QB has WAY more effect on the overall performance of the offense than a single WR, WWWAAAAAYYYYYY more. And he's had 20+ games already. You're comparing a fat, lazy, 3rd year 69million dollar, 20+ games of film QB to a stone handed 23mil(???) 9 game roookie WR (apples to oranges).

Russell is not rotting, hopefully he is learning. Maybe he is rotting, but he wasn't sent to the bench to rot.

Dude, you are a glass bone dry type of guy. Why do you even watch or care? You are convinced we're going to be stuck in this rut until Al dies, so just read the obituaries until it happens, then come back. Do you even understand the concept of a TEAM sport?

And I love the "10 year vet" comment, it's 8 years, and he already said he's down with signing long term and trying to turn this thing around. Yea, that's a better brick for rebuilding than first rounder in 2011.


-moshbucket

4:42 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Based on Al's track record lately, he might want to send me that blueprint. I'd like to see if I could underperform the worst stretch of losing in NFL history.

4:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do you not see the imporvement on the D-line?
Sure Cincy hung about 170 on us rushing, but take away that one big run (?65) and our run D did very well. They ran it like 45 times. Or redzone D was stout as hell. That's against the AFC North LEADING Bengals.

All the standard haters (solomon, who must have had his bengals jersy on during the game, mayock, etc) only said the Bengals chocked, never gave us any props. Never mentions 7? plays goal to go we held them.

Billick on the other hand, said "Lets show the Raiders' O some lover". Hasselback said he was really impressed with how hard we faught, UNTIL THE END.

Billick (spelling?) might be pushing for that HC job????

-moshbucket

4:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't worry dude, the bubble is safe from your drivel.

Tui didn't play as well as Dr. Evil has, not even close.

-moshbucket

4:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bruce Almighty (aka. Dr. Evil).

Well, I looked for a pic from the press conference but couldn't find it. None of the pics I found did it justice. But if you go watch that pastgame conference, ski is a pumped up Dr. Evil.
Just wish he would have done the pinky thing, and asked Al for "ONE-MMMIIIIILLLLION-DOLLARS!!!!"

As I found some of the bio stuff (also a draft diary of his), It reminded me of something I wanted to bring up here in the past.

I think Jamarcus is TO big for a QB. Not saying a QB can't be that big, but I think it lets the D read the QB more easily. Drew Brees is down there behind the o-lineman and the secondary probably just sees is arm pop up and there goes the ball.

JRuss is way up there for all to see, staring down one side of the field, and here comes the big arm, "let's swat it down".

Grads 6.1, 220. I've seen recent vid of him in the weightroom, and I think he might be heavier than that, but not Jamarcus Russell heavy, more Brady Quinn heavy.

Just wanted to break the monotony.

-moshbucket

5:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NY,
Didn't mean to insult you by calling your posts drivel.
We'll at the moment of typing, maybe I did ;-)
I respect your opinion, even if I don't agree.
-moshbucket

5:11 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Mosh - thanks, I think?

But it was more than a 60-yard run that burned us. There were a number of big pass plays as well, including serious YAC.

I'll give Cable credit for not trying to evade the fact that our D has a problem giving up big plays. He conceded that much.

Doesn't mean he can fix it, but at least he's willing to lay that out there publicly, and not treat the fans like morons.

As for apples and oranges, sure QB is more important than one WR, but why compromise the entire team by playing either man when better options are available.

After 10 games of utter failure, it's hard to believe the DHB project is still alive and kicking.

Rebuilding or not, there's no other team in the NFL that would have left the kid on an island for 10 games without a shred of production (unless you think 7 receptions after 10 games for your #1 WR is production).

5:51 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

what a great difference having a REAL Qb makes.

and Gradkowski, i believe, has not been in the league much longer, or had many more starts, than JRussell.

just goes to show what a slooooow track Jruss is on.

it's only one game, but Gradkowski was able to spark the offense, and lift up it's performance(except for DHB).

i also believe, in fairness to Tom Cable, we can assume the raiders would be a 7 or 8 win team this year with a true Qb from seasons start.

6:01 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Mosh said, "Someone mentioned DHB should be learning in practice and not on the field (debatable how much you can learn in practice vs/ on the field)."

If you read all of my comments regarding DHB, I have consistently said that DHB should have his snaps reduced AND learn his craft on the practice field.

It isn't ALL or NOTHING, BLACK or WHITE, CAREER DEVELOPMENT or THE BENCH.

WRs (like DLineman) can be rotated on to the field throughout a game depending on down, distance, game situation, opponent, getting refreshed, different schemes, WR sets, etc.

Instead of DHB playing 50+ snaps and taking Murphy/Higgins/Watkins reps., he should earn his 20+ snaps a game.

You see Mosh, you can develop a player BUT at the same time field the most competitive team at the same time. See how that works?

Anyone on this board who insists that Murphy can't play WR on "DHB's side of the field" is delusional.

To me it is hypocritical for Cable to tell the media and fans that the reason he made the change from Russell to Ski is "to give our team the best chance to win" while shoving DHB out there game after game without production.

6:23 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

On a different, more serious note:

http://www.ibabuzz.com/oaklandraiders/2009/11/24/alstons-red-flag-came-too-late/#more-8406

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AvDTqb9C7z7foD._Ss0ytz5DubYF?slug=ap-nflconcussions&prov=ap&type=lgns

7:21 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Bruce Gradkowski:

Entered NFL in 2006
12 total NFL starts through this week
437 passing attempts
231 completions
52% completion rate
TDs: 11
INTs: 16

JaMarcus Russell

Entered NFL in 2007
25 total NFL starts through this week
639 passing attempts
330 completions
52% completion rate
TDs 17
INTs 21

Their stats are nearly identical, if you pro-rate them out to total attempts to total completions to total touchdowns to total INTs.

Yet their is no doubt that Gradkowski is way ahead in his development despite having half the starts of Russell.

Anyhow, interesting to look at the numbers, and then to compare the intangibles.

7:41 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

The biggest differences between Ski & Russell:

* Dedication to his profession
* Maturity & professionalism
* Mobility & decisiveness
* Instincts & pocket awareness
* Ability to read the whole field
* Touch & catchable ball
* One guy scraps & claws while the other has a sense of entitlement
* Command of the huddle
* Adjustment at LOS
* Varying the change of cadence

The stats are similar but somewhat skewed. One wonders if Ski is similar to Gannon where he gets bounced around and when his skills and the right opportunity presents itself, he seizes the moment.

This clearly is Ski's moment. 6 games vs. some very stiff competition (Dallas, Pittsburgh, Baltimore) and a golden opportunity to take ownership in his future.

He has the skill set and intangibles to succeed. The big question, as usual, is whether he has the support & stability to shine. Right now he is facing a difficult situation and will hopefull make the best of it.

9:48 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

That’s pretty much what it boils down to... it’s mostly Russell’s sense of entitlement that keeps him from the intangibles which make Gradkowski a better QB.

It wasn’t until after Russell was pulled as starter that he was reported as (once) spending extra time working after a team practice. Meanwhile, he’s been spotted at every major sporting event in the Bay area. I don’t begrudge him his personal time (as he says), but shouldn’t he be off somewhere studying a playbook and learning a craft that he’s being paid millions of dollars to perform at the highest level possible?

He will almost certainly be the Raiders starter again, and my guess is he will be just as unprepared the next time as he was the first time.

6:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"After 10 games of utter failure..."
NY,
He did have 2 or 3 good plays:
critical 3rd down conversion on sideline.
Defending underthrown ball in endzone.
Getting open on that deep pass even though he dropped it(that play did help keep the secondary honest in that game, and he was drawing double coverages deep).

Does that justify his paycheck and playing time? HELL NO!
But I do believe that DHB needs the snaps right now more that Murphy does for developement purposes. Not saying it's right or wrong, but it's the best way to develope your #1 WR pick, and to gauge him. It's not like we're deep at WR.

Here's another thing to consider. If Murph takes as many snaps as DHB, and runs those deep routes throughout the game, does he have the gas left to get it in the endzone at the end of the game?

Again, you're concentrating on 1 stat, catches/drops. Sure that's the most important one, but "utter failure"?

-moshbucket

9:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

CJ,
Chill, brother. I wasn't picking apart your post, I just mentioned it because it reminded me of the 'no pads/helmets in practice thing I heard being pushed.

-moshbucket

9:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dallas video board.
I haven't read the article "Punter tempted by Dallas Video board", but saw the headline. I forgot all about that thing.

If we get into a situation where the D needs a rest, and we are punting. Shane can just punt that thing into the video board as many times as he wants until the D is ready!!!

If the ball hits it, it's a do-over.

-moshbucket

9:15 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Mosh -

7 catches after 10 games for your #1 WR is not utter failure? This kid's been getting over 50 snaps a game, so he's been involved in not less than 500 plays and has a total 7 receptions.

That's sure to be another record of futility that Raiders can call their own.

"He did have 2 or 3 good plays:
critical 3rd down conversion on sideline.
Defending underthrown ball in endzone."

2 or 3? That's all we can expect after 10 games? Yikes!

Yeah, he made a 3rd down play last Sunday, but dropped another easy one.

Also, there was much criticism after the "defending the underthrown ball" play that DHB is the bigger and more athletic player and should have made the catch.

When he's out there in single coverage against a 5'10' DB, he should be taking charge and making plays. Instead, he's defending against the INT.

The bar is low in Oakland. Clearly, we have standards for players that no other team would tolerate.

Suddenly, Mike Williams looks like a playmaker.

9:51 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

I only remember a punter hitting the scoreboard once in game play. Ray Guy did it when a Pro Bowl game was played in New Orleans many years ago.

So this is the key game. Can the Raiders beat a quality team the week after beating a quality team? And after that, can they put together three in a row?

Also, I still suspect we may well find out something different from DHB with Gradkowski at QB. DHB only had one reception, but so did Murphy. And, yes, I know that DHB bobbled the pass he caught. However, he was fighting to keep the ball in bounds, he had to go after the ball, and he maintained concentration until he achieved possession - 1st down, Raiders.

And other than catching the ball, DHB is doing everything else expected of him, and more. If he can soften the hands of stone, and I think he can, he'll be a valuable weapon. At some point we may thank Cable for having the patience to see it through.

10:05 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Better WRs have tried and failed. As Ochocinco claims, you come out of college with the ability to catch the ball. If you don't have that ability entering the NFL, it's probably too late. Makes sense to me.

Take a look at the rookie class this year, DHB, with 50+ snaps a game, is nowhere close to the top 10 or 20 from the first 4 rounds. Even Crabass with almost half a season of holdout, is leaping way ahead of DHB... and with a struggling QB situation of his own.

Even our own Louis Murphy, who is also struggling, looks like a seasoned pro compared to DHB.

That these guys were both on the field as starters while Russell struggled for nine games, IMO, is the equivalent of taking a knee for every game before it starts.

I'd bet some of the players, particularly on D, felt the same way.

So after 9 games, we finally make a decision to insert a QB that gives us a chance to win, but we still don't give him the best tools at our disposal.

Just take a knee, baby!

Commitment to excellence in the future, maybe.

Turns out, the Raiders suck at reloading, and they suck at rebuilding. What's next?

Seven years is an entire career for most players. Pretty soon, the youngs players we relied on to rebuild this team will be retiring.

11:10 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I retract the statement that “most” players retire within 7 seven years. I don’t know the average years of NFL service, but I’d guess it’s pretty low. You can be sure most contracts don’t last 7 years, which means many coveted players will have an opportunity to leave as FA before the rebuilduing cycle is complete.

11:17 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

According to the Players Association: "The average length of an NFL career is about 3 and a half seasons."

3.5 x 2 = 7. How about that.

12:26 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Amazing! I guess that means if we have an opportunity to draft another speedy WR, we'd better take it. Time is running out.

12:32 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

This game as I see it.

The Cowboys will stack the box to prevent running success and, most importantly, do everything they can to take Miller out of the game. They will attempt to cover him with a combination of LBs and safety packages.

While working in McFadden going East and West, Cable will hammer the middle with Bush and Fargas. But by and large, Cable will continue the passing game, working McFadden in on screens. If Dallas safeties join in covering Miller, Cable will go deep repeatedly to DHB and Murphy. Schilens will be used to find the seams in zone coverages.

No scoring predictions on this game. The Raiders CAN win it. But will they?

1:05 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

100.

1:05 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

The Raiders should try to pass early and often to DHB. He will be in single coverage, and a player of his size and speed should be able to take full advantage.

If we're going to live or die by this guy, let's at least do it right. Let's make this game either his first (meaning breakout) or his last (meaning bench - possibly bust).

With the coverages he'll face, and his so-called pedigree, he should have a minimum 5 to 6 catches for over 100 yards and possibly a TD. Anything less is not worthy of his playing status.

1:24 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Unfortunately, both these articles make sense.

Al Davis:

http://tinyurl.com/ydgn38s

JaMarcus Russell:

http://tinyurl.com/ycc4xt2

1:25 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Sorry, wrong Russell article. That one was lame. Here's the one I found funny and interesting.

http://tinyurl.com/yhxscp9

1:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
I refuse to get excited over these periodic wins. Back a few wins up in a row and I'll take notice... until then it's nothing more than a win like the Steelers win under Shell a few years ago.
Our franchise is ruined. The house cleaning starts at the top. The players cannot even be properly evaluated right now and that includes Russell. Does anyone really think that we are a good place to groom a rookie QB?
Again, we turned Randy Moss into a bust. That's what our environment does to talent.

1:32 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

bama7 and nyraider, I find myself agreeing with moshbucket. Why do you bother watching Raider news every day. Why not just stick to the obituaries and wait for Al's demise?

1:37 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Despite the ranting, I don't need nor wish for Al Davis to die. I respectfully ask that he step down as supreme leader and allow modern, intelligent football minds to take over.

It is more than apparent that his staff of one is grossly inefficient to run an NFL franchise.

Blanda - I recommend you read the article I posted above.

1:49 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

The problem in my mind is that Mr. Davis has been doubling down on his control and responsibilities at precisely the wrong time in his storied life.

By foregoing a GM and hiring less-than-stellar coaching talent, he has increased his own personal operational burden at point when his age limits his mobility and, surely, his stamina for the job.

Compare the trio of Gruden, Allen and Davis (a seven years younger Davis to boot) to the duo of Kiffin and Davis, or Cable and Davis, and it's evident where the root of the problem is.

I just don't understand it. People keep trying to tell me, well, that's Al Davis.

No, it's not, it's the Al Davis of the past several years, not the Al Davis of lore.

The Al Davis of lore had great GMs and coaches.

2:38 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

I'm guessing we'll see T. Branch on kick returns. Right now, out of every position, we're deepest at SS with T. Branch and M. Mitchell manning the position. Branch was considered as a returner before he was injured last year. In fact, he had the inside track if memory serves.

3:17 PM  
Blogger John C. said...

DHB is stretching the field?? DHB can develop bigger hands with practice??? WTF are people on? Sorry, but this kind nonsense is absurd.

4:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mike Williams, holly crap. Now that's a bust. With all the hype and he was supposed to be such a stud, and I was stoked when we got him. That dude was just a chump. He makes DHB look like Jerry Rice.

The good thing is, 100yds and a TD, and we got NY on the DHB bandwagon!!!!
:-)

-moshbucket

4:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mike Williams, holy crap. Was enjoying that I forgot about that turd. He makes DHB look like Jerry Rice!

100yds and a TD, and NY's on the DHB bandwagon!!!! I'd be happy with 3 catches for 45yds, and a key block to spring a TD, but would prefer the 100yds/TD scenario.

That said, he could have zero catches if we win, and I'd be happy. I'm a simple kinda man. All I need is a W (well, more W's than L's of course, but on gameday, just a W).

Martz said the Boys will probably just run the shit out of the ball tomorrow, that Romo's scared of the tight coverages, prefers zones, and obviously our #30 rush D.

Everyone's gonna do this until we can shut it down. Will be interesting.

-moshbucket





-moshbucket

4:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Long time no post, bama.
Don't let it get you to worked up (i.e., give thanks, watch the game, but don't let it bring you down).

Just look forward to what's about to go down on the plains on Friday!
#13 in that league would make this dismal season go down a little easier.

-moshbucket

4:46 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Mosh said, "He did have 2 or 3 good plays:
critical 3rd down conversion on sideline. Defending underthrown ball in endzone. Getting open on that deep pass even though he dropped it(that play did help keep the secondary honest in that game, and he was drawing double coverages deep)."

Mosh, you couldn't drop your standards any lower. Our starting WR had 1 catch for 7 yards. You mean to tell me that "2 or 3 good plays" is acceptable? The most yards DHB has put up in a single game is 28. He has more drops than catches. He has yet to score a single TD. Review the numbers below and try to justify DHB getting the bulk of WR snaps.

Updated DHB Stats:

By Game:

Game 1 - 0 catches
Game 2 - 1 catch, 18 yards
Game 3 - 0 catches
Game 4 - 1 catch, 18 yards
Game 5 - 0 catches
Game 6 - 0 catches
Game 7 - 2 catches, 28 yards
Game 8 - 1 catch, 10 yards
Game 9 - 1 catch, 22 yards
Game 10- 1 catch, 7 yards

By Quarter

1st Quarter - 1 catch
2nd Quarter - 4 catches
3rd Quarter - 1 catch
4th Quarter - 1 catch

7 total catches, 103 yards, 0 TDs

Game Avg = .7 catch, 10.3 yards

6:04 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

CJ, I must remind you, in the words of Blanda:

"And OTHER THAN CATCHING THE BALL, DHB is doing everything else expected of him, and more."

The bar has been set so low, it's underground.

6:10 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Just so we're clear, there is no doubt that Mike Williams was a major bust.

However, it is funny when comparing MW with DHB because it makes it crystal clear that DHB is an even BIGGER bust.

MW drafted #10 by Lions
DHB drafted #7 by Raiders

MW rookie year:
29 receptions, 350 yards and 1 TD while playing in 14 games with four starts.

DHB rookie year:
(to date) 7 receptions, 103 yards and 0 TDs while playing in 10 games and 10 starts.

DHB is on a pace for 11 receptions, 160 yards, 0 TDs

6:15 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

DHB seems to be a likeable guy who works hard and apparently is a decent blocker. Maybe someday he can become a serviceable, complimentary WR.

In the meantime, the standards for measuring a WR's true value to his team is his production on the field.

The meat & potatoes of a WR's primary responsibilities is to do 3 things;

-> run good routes
-> get open
-> catch the ball

Everything else (blocking, clearing space, being a decoy, breaking up INTs) is way down the list on why you signed a WR to a contract let alone draft him in the 1st round at #7.

6:24 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I thought the Mike Williams reference was pretty funny, but it seems to have been slightly misinterpreted by some.

Calico Jack makes it crystal clear with numbers that Mike Williams out-performed DHB in his rookie year, yet he was a certain bust for the Lions. So, there's no way Williams "makes DHB look like Jerry Rice"
...more like rice krispies.

The bar can't possibly get any lower for an NFL WR. I still can't believe it got this low.

Are the Raiders going to field their best players, or just tell us they are, then field young players they'd like to develop but really don't know how?

7:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
Mosh- looking forward to the Iron Bowl... would like to see Auburn make a game of it (sorry H)

7:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

DHB was called an "utter failure", and I said he HAS contributed, but very little.

I NEVER said acceptable.

OK, so the rice comparison was way off because of the hands, WAY off. Jerry was one of the most dedicated to his craft and worked hard at it.

Mike Williams was a bum who wanted it all on a silver platter, got paid, and just tried to coast.

Slap murphy's numbers up there on a chart, he's not really doing much better. 2TD's sure, but I have trouble guaging the WR's in the bumbling clown car that has been our offense. No way it's cut and dry that DHB should be benched and Murphy gets all his snaps.

Anyway, I'm done with the DHB discussion. People keep throwing the hideous catch/drop numbers like I'm not aware of it.
DHB: Dude Had Better...... catch some f-ing balls!!!

Go Dr. Evil!!!
Go Raiders!!!!!!
-moshbucket

PS: If we win out the season, I'm ordering a #5 Dr. Evil jersey.

7:52 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Nope, Mosh, we are not done with this discussion as long as you make ridiculous statements such as

"Slap murphy's numbers up there on a chart, he's not really doing much better. 2TD's sure, but I have trouble guaging the WR's in the bumbling clown car that has been our offense."

Really? Murphy isn't doing much better than DHB? Ridiculous.

Murphy has probably 70% of the the total snaps of DHB yet his numbers are 2x or 3x better ACROSS THE BOARD.

Murphy:
17 receptions, 261 yards, 2 TDs

DHB:
7 receptions, 103 yards, 0 TDs

Then you say, "No way it's cut and dry that DHB should be benched and Murphy gets all his snaps."

I guess you don't bother to read what other posters like myself say. At no time did I say DHB should be benched. At no time did I say Murphy should take ALL of DHB's snaps. What I did say repeatedly (read carefully) is that DHB's snaps should be REDUCED and Murphy's snaps INCREASED. Is that difficult for you to understand?

I guess you were weakly throwing in the white towell since all of the data CLEARLY backs up the notion that DHB doesn't deserve starter's playing time. Next time just leave it at that instead of making yourself look even more foolish with asinine statements.

9:14 PM  
Blogger John C. said...

I'll be even more up front about it: DHB is a guaranteed bust. Once the Raiders cut their losses with this guy (3-4 years down the road maybe), he won't even be a second string receiver in this league. As far as blocking, what a load of garbage. He hasn't even been doing that well. Moreover, he did not have a great college career. Yes folks, in college he was known for dropping balls and possessing an inability to get in the end zone. Good god! I read this as a bust from day 1. The Al cultists are all blinded by speed. Lay off the blow kids and open your eyes. Speed kills!

9:54 PM  
OpenID wiltol said...

Amazing. A change at QB, for one game, produced significant results. (A win, no less) We do have to consider that it's Gradkowski's first start but so far, so good.

He isn't the long term solution yet I would personally want Bruce to succeed and be cut from the same cloth as Rich Gannon or Jeff Hostetler. Both were unheralded, career backups before donning S&B. They lacked raw talent and a rifle arm but they showed grit, determination and heart while leading by example. Another QB, by the name of Jim Plunkett, was considered washed up- a bust. He has two SB rings to his credit. Kenny Stabler sat on the bench until his time had come. Daryle Lamonica came via trade. Familiar pattern, don't you think? J-Bust is not the answer. Here's to the man they call Bruce. May he continue the Raider QB tradition.

10:11 PM  
Blogger John C. said...

Re: Jeff Hostetler. He was a starter for the NY Giants and beat out Simms for the job twice. Only injuries kept him out of the line-up (broken back at one point). He also led the Giants to playoff and Super Bowl victories.

I personally think Hos underachieved with the Raiders. We could have gotten more out of him had we opened the offense up a bit.

10:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

game over
moshbucket

4:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow, listening to pregame, segment on 'hot seats'.

We only owe JRuss 3mil next season, so he is 'cutable'.

-moshbucket

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