The Case for Hope
So what is my case for hope? I really don't know, I just liked the sound of it.
To be honest, I'm not very hopeful about this season. How could I be?
NY Raider pointed out this unfortunate little observation from the newspaper: "This offense is the NFL's worst in total offense, net passing yards, passing average per game, pass completions, pass completion percentage, passing touchdowns, overall first downs (tied with the 49ers), passing first downs, red-zone possessions, red-zone touchdowns and fumbles lost."
NY Raider added: "This 2009 team has a good chance to rank statistically as the worst offense (worse than B&B) and defense the Raiders have ever fielded. How is that even possible?"
How, indeed? I just don't foresee a quick turnaround at this point. So it's all about 2010 and beyond at this point.
Some folks get mad when I make negative observations about the Raiders. Well, give me positive information, and you'll get positive observations. Garbage in, garbage out, right?
At the same time, I'm getting tired of being the garbage man. I wish the Raiders would stop filling up the trash cans at a record rate. The repetitive nature of so many consecutive seasons is mind numbing.
I want to be hopeful. I want to be jacked up about my team, and to recapture that feeling of the Raiders being a force, not a farce.
I do not agree with those who want to run Al Davis out of the building. What I want is Al Davis to get the help he needs and deserves. Why he has been unwilling to do that, in the wake of so much failure, is beyond me. What will it take?
To say that Al Davis needs help is not disrespectful. All great leaders need help. The president has a vice president. Generals have lieutenant generals. CEOs have VPs. Where's the shame in that?
The hallmark of greatness isn't doing it yourself. The hallmark of greatness is getting it done. It's not about intentions, philosophies or anything else. It's about results. Just win, baby.
But we are not getting results under the current operative mindset (far, far from it). The operative mindset of the organization needs to be radically rebuilt before the team can be rebuilt. That much is obvious.
I've always said that we'll know when true change is afoot when you can see and taste the change. It won't be a tweak or an adjustment, a nudge or a nuance. It will be a fundamental shift that will be evident to all of us.
Dare I hope for something like this? It's the only case I can make at this point.
To be honest, I'm not very hopeful about this season. How could I be?
NY Raider pointed out this unfortunate little observation from the newspaper: "This offense is the NFL's worst in total offense, net passing yards, passing average per game, pass completions, pass completion percentage, passing touchdowns, overall first downs (tied with the 49ers), passing first downs, red-zone possessions, red-zone touchdowns and fumbles lost."
NY Raider added: "This 2009 team has a good chance to rank statistically as the worst offense (worse than B&B) and defense the Raiders have ever fielded. How is that even possible?"
How, indeed? I just don't foresee a quick turnaround at this point. So it's all about 2010 and beyond at this point.
Some folks get mad when I make negative observations about the Raiders. Well, give me positive information, and you'll get positive observations. Garbage in, garbage out, right?
At the same time, I'm getting tired of being the garbage man. I wish the Raiders would stop filling up the trash cans at a record rate. The repetitive nature of so many consecutive seasons is mind numbing.
I want to be hopeful. I want to be jacked up about my team, and to recapture that feeling of the Raiders being a force, not a farce.
I do not agree with those who want to run Al Davis out of the building. What I want is Al Davis to get the help he needs and deserves. Why he has been unwilling to do that, in the wake of so much failure, is beyond me. What will it take?
To say that Al Davis needs help is not disrespectful. All great leaders need help. The president has a vice president. Generals have lieutenant generals. CEOs have VPs. Where's the shame in that?
The hallmark of greatness isn't doing it yourself. The hallmark of greatness is getting it done. It's not about intentions, philosophies or anything else. It's about results. Just win, baby.
But we are not getting results under the current operative mindset (far, far from it). The operative mindset of the organization needs to be radically rebuilt before the team can be rebuilt. That much is obvious.
I've always said that we'll know when true change is afoot when you can see and taste the change. It won't be a tweak or an adjustment, a nudge or a nuance. It will be a fundamental shift that will be evident to all of us.
Dare I hope for something like this? It's the only case I can make at this point.
posted by Raider Take at 8:47 AM
244 Comments:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
I feel a catharsis coming on...
---Jeff
Perhaps, Arkansan. But it sure would be nice if the Raiders would give me a little more cathartic material to work with.
Believe it or not, I think the Raiders are going to beat the Chargers tomorrow.
Raiders 24 - Chargers 16
Believe it or not, I think the light switch was finally turned on by JRuss this week. Better late than never.
However, real, tangible, sustainable progress will only take place when the executive support and operational staff is bolstered.
At this point all I can do is enjoy the few good moments in Raider football and come to grips that it is merely entertainment.
I'm down with it being entertainment. The problem with all of these blowouts is that they're not even entertaining.
So how does the light switch magically turn on? What has given you the idea that a light switch has turned on? CJ doesn't know which direction to turn, he's all messed up.
JONES
It turns on when you realize you don't have to have 5 TE's on the field to win.
---Jeff
Why do I think the light switch was turned on this week for Russell?
* Getting benched for the 1st time in his entire life of playing football or your proverbial "wake-up call".
* Comments by Russell where he actually showed accountability for the 1st time.
Q: What do you need to fix?
A: “There’s a lot of things, whether it’s staying on a guy too long, or whatever it is, putting the ball in a better place for a guy to catch or get us into the right checks, any small detail that can go for us being perfect.”
* Comments by Cable alluding to the fact that Russell owned up to his mistakes and is putting in the extra time to correct it. (Showing up at practice at 6:30 am on Wednesday.)
Am I messed up? No. It is called having an independently derived opinion.
Am I wrong about the light switch? Could be. This can only be proven by Russell's work off the field and performance on the field not by quotes. I get that.
I have been wrong many times in the past and will be wrong many more times in the future. The last time I checked this was a blog where predictions & speculation & opinions are part of the equation.
Oh Jeffy, is that all you have? Wimpy, wimpy.
JONES
CJ, it's funny, as soon as I speculate, tell my opinion, you tell me to get real. Remember when you told me I was a tool for writing how Gru was giving it to Al Davis in the Super Bowl? Or how bout the one where I said Seymour might not come back?
How come you can speculate and wonder? Which is it CJ? Rules for you and different for others? Your contradictions are growing by the post. The crew is still ABSURD, they still think they run this town.....too funny.
JONES
Yeah, entertainment. That's all we can hope for under the present regime, because real change is nowhere in sight.
I made this prediction early, but I believe the Raiders will provide us with some entertainment this week. I expect to see a well-fought game against the Chargers... if for no other reason than they believe they can win based on their Week 1 performance. Fact is, the Chargers are beatable.
Will the Raiders win? Doubtful. Philip Rivers, with or without his running game, may be too much for the Raiders.
Jones:
Yes, I remember fondly rebuking your silly comment about Gruden giving Davis the "evil eye" from the sidelines to the press box.
This was without a doubt, the most ridiculous, unfounded comment that I have ever seen. It was actually very funny. It is the equivalent of Keith Hernandez' "magic loogey" on a Seinfeld episode.
Let me guess ... you have footage from a t.v. camera angle where an imaginary line is drawn from the sideline to the press box that illustrates that Gruden gave a look to Davis from a few hundred yards away. Too funny Jonesy Boy. Put on a red nose and take the clown car for a spin. At least you are entertaining.
NYR:
Without a doubt, the Raiders match up better vs. pass oriented teams such as the Eagles and Chargers. LT is banged up and the Chargers have been leaning heavily on Rivers and the passing game. I think 1 of the keys to the game will be how the Raiders handle Sproles in the passing game.
I'm not going to make a prediction on this game. If you feel the Raiders will win this, good on you; you have more faith in the team right now than I do.
I've heard "a lot of talk" these past 6 season of "turning the corner". The Raiders have been at this same freakin' corner for 6 1/2 seasons now! The blinker is on, turn already!
I've heard this same schpeel from Cable and JaMarcus last season; about his improvement and understanding of his game is coming to a peak; and then after all that talk they go out on the field and get annihilated.
I should I expect something different? I expect them to be annihilated tomorrow. They can talk about showing up early, and working hard, blah-blah-blah. But I reiterate, how is JaMarcus really going to learn if a coach is not in his grill on the sidelines with pictures of the previous drive (successful drive or unsuccessful drive)?
I'm still in the "Just prove it, baby!" mode. Until they do (and proving it is Cable's own words, "3 wins in a row"), I won't believe the hype. JUST PROVE IT, BABY!
CJ....thanks for making my point crystal clear...good job.
JONES
RT,
this is more than a matter of al davis bringing in the help he needs.
first off, only al davis can make the decision to bring in the help. will he ?
if he does, who will the person, or persons be ?
will al bring in just more yes men/women(amy trask) ?
or will he bring in the people to make the bold, sweeping changes the raiders desperately need ?
so far, it looks like al davis only knows one way. the structure is this :
al davis controls everything.
the rest of the people in the organization, probably could not get a job for any other team in the league. in other words, they are hangers on.
the style of football is based on old idea's, and it can never be changed.
i believe al davis is perfectly happy with the raiders as they are.
the raiders have no star GM.
no star players.
no star coordinators
no star head coach.
al davis cannot be upstaged. he is the lone, and biggest face of the raiders. i think he is content.
Well even with the Raiders being statistically worse than 2004, they'll win more than 2 games.
And hey, in 2011, the most likely top ten draft pick the Patriots get from the Raiders is going to be the first year with a rookie salary cap so it'll be a lot cheaper to sign those high picks.
Yeah!
Awesome planning on the Raider's part.
Oh. Wait.
Well, Gallery seems close to coming back which should help the O-Line. And fingers crossed the running game.
As for the tomorrow vs. the Chargers, I expect it to be close until something bad happens, either a big run by Sproles or a fumble (lost) by Russel and the Raiders get behind and everything will implode. I certianly hope it plays out closer to Calico's scenario, but I'm not there yet.
Still fed up. And until something happens within the organization I'm not hopeful that anything other than outlier performances (beating the Eagles) will garner wins.
I'm sorry Take, not much of a case for hope.
Good points Raider00 - based on Davis' failures to select competent coaching, what is the chance he'll make the right GM hire? ...if in fact he goes that route, which most of us believe he won't.
Davis finding a GM who he trusts is a major challenge by itself.
Add the following to the equation and it would seem to be like finding a needle in a haystack:
(1) proven & competent GM candidate
(2) granted the full authority to make necessary/significant changes
(3) has the full level of responsiblilites normally associated with a GM
(4) willingly takes the job
you are very welcome "Guns A Blazin" Jones. Enjoy your weekend. ;D
JaMarcus doesn't have what it takes to be a legit NFL QB, whether he 'gets' it or not. Talent involves a lot more than having a big gun. No coach can change the fact that JaMarcus has slow reflexes and doesn't feel pressure in the pocket. Time and time again, I've heard hopeful fans buy into the belief that these issues can be coached away. Well no, they can't. Now if JaMarcus actually throws for 200 yards and only has one turnover, the 'believers' will say I'm wrong. But I'm telling you: the kid doesn't have it. Time will make that more and more clear. Sorry, but I know a bust when I see one.
At this point, it makes sense to let Russell play out the season and see if he makes any strides toward positive consistency.
If not, it should be clear the Raiders need to go another direction at QB.
Unfortunately, there's nobody qualified to scout a new QB. I've lost faith in Cable's ability to identify talent based on his OL selections such as Harris, Barnes, Satele, Pears, etc.
Clearly, player scouting has become a glaring weakness of the Raiders.
"Unfortunately, there's nobody qualified to scout a new QB. I've lost faith in Cable's ability to identify talent based on his OL selections such as Harris, Barnes, Satele, Pears, etc."
Since when does Cable make personel decisions? How can people still think that anyone other than Al Davis makes these decisions?.....
JONES
Cable does not make personnel decisions.
However, Cable, just like past Raider Head Coaches, makes personnel recommendations.
Ultimately whether the player is signed to a contract is Davis' final decision.
Jones, you don't think Cable had any input regarding the O-linemen I listed? Even though Cable is by trade an O-line coach and it’s Cable’s O-line system the Raiders employ, Al Davis hand picked all those linemen all by himself? Ok, if you say so.
Jeez, when I first read that ESPN headline today about Cable's alleged domestic violence, I was like, whatever. But after watching the segment, it's pretty chilling stuff. Three separate women saying the same thing over the span of decades. And not just saying it, but committing it to court documents and police reports well before the Randy Hanson incident.
Whether these allegations are 100% true, false or somewhere in between; we know for a fact that Cable is emotionally unstable. We know this just on the fact that he was involved in a violent altercation with an assistant coach. Moreover, this guy is just collecting a paycheck running Al's show on the field. It's pathetic. Cable is a sinking ship. It's not a matter of 'if' he's going down; it's just a matter of 'when.' Wake up Al! His legacy is close to being 'shot' at this point.
Input, hand-pick, recommend some of the acquisitions = Cable
approving the player to sign the dotted line = Davis
RT:
Just when the Hanson incident gets put to bed another MAJOR distraction rears it's ugly head. The big top tent circus simply refuses to leave town.
Going into 2010, what facet of the team is settled?
QB? Russell has 9 games to determine whether the Raiders recalibrate their plans for this position.
HC? Besides the blowouts, double digit loss track, worst offense in the history of the NFL, and a D that can't stop the run, our HC is a dead man walking. 2 Major media distractions in the span of 3 months.
GM? How active and successful will this on-going search be?
Past 3 1st rounders? Russell, McFadden, DHB as the future of our offense?
DC? Is this position of leadership on the defense in terms of philosophy, scheme, personnel just a hollow suit whose hands are continuall tied?
LBs? When will this become a position of importance in terms of drafting in the 1st few rounds and FA acquisitions?
OLine? Besides Henderson & Gallery the rest should be replaced.
OK, we are settled at K & P! Yippee! And don't forget we can count on Old Man Willie Brown as a player development/CB coach!
Gannon's idea of blowing up the building and starting from scratch never sounded so good. It would almost be better to be a new franchise entering the league.
Scary portrait of the situation, CJ.
I don't know if the allegations are 100 percent true. Cable admits to one of the alleged incidents, so that much is true.
It's an interesting pattern to have follow you around, allegations of domestic abuse by three separate people.
And again, all of these allegations were committed to official paper, so it's not like they saw the Hanson incident and THEN started to make stuff up. If they were making it up, they were making it up before all of the negative publicity surrounding Hansen.
That's a lot of smoke for there not to be at least some unfortunate fire.
NY
I'm just sayin...can't blame Cable for personel....it is out of his hands..can't blame Cable for scheme...he's just doing what he is told. Can't blame Cable for draft picks. You CAN blame Cable for his temper though....you would think that, with having his temper, he would kick Al's ass. He is an explosion waiting to happen, CABLE boma ye, Cable boma ye.
JONES
Back to regularly scheduled programming: an INT by JRuss in the first minutes.
1st possession: Interception! Hey, but at least JaMarcus had his best practice yet. Gary must certainly be impressed.
Followed by a 65 yard completion and an LT touchdown. Deja vu all over again.
Jesus. This kid has one of the most inaccurate arms imaginable. Talent? What talent? Being big?
Tough running, bravo! Maybe we can actually make a game of this!
Hey, Vincent Jackson just matched DHB's season total of catches...on one drive.
SD has a pretty terrible run D. But count me as someone that's never been impressed with Fargas. The guy has no vision. He doesn't read blocks. He just stares at the ground and barrels ahead. Bush should be getting the bulk of the carries IMO.
And did you catch Crabtree today? Kid is a beast, just like I knew he would me. If some punk like me knows that Crabtree is a bonna fide NFL starter, why couldn't Al figure it out? DHB??? Puhlease.
Light switch has come on.....but someone turned off the circuit breaker.
JR has turned the corner because of the benching I think...he looks much more accountable sitting on his spot of the bench. He is really trying to figure out what needs to be done...he is showing his teammates true leadership by putting on that stupid hat in 90 degree weather....who is the moron that drafted this idiot????....that CJ, sure knows his stuff.
JONES
This is a message for Jeffy aka Maytag boy and his little buddy CJ.....Seymour is mailing it in, he doesn't want to be in Oakland, his play says it all...look at him, he doesn't care, he isn't even trying...Moss must of told him how to get out of Oakland, just dog it and Al will trade you for a 4th round pick....DO NOT EXPECT SEYMOUR TO BE BACK.
JONES
I call "Bull Shit" on Seymour dogging it. I am watching the game. I have the game on DVR. Name 1 single play that Seymour has "dogged" it. Name the down, the play, the time of the game ... anything specific. Otherwise, STSFU.
Yes, I do expect Seymour back next year.
Who cares what you call CJ...you aren't the "decider".Just watch him, that is all the proof needed. But of course, CJ, you don't really know what you are looking at anyways. Thus your "light switch" comment.
That has got to be the dumbest comment ever made...well, maybe not, there is all of Blanda's and Panty's...Jeffy...the list is pretty long so, just say that it is one of the dumbest.
You think you make the rules huh CJ? You can say all the dumb things you want and then excuse it away. BUT then you tell me to STGFUYSCSF or whatever.....CJ , get a brain.
JONES
To say Seymour is dogging it is just flat out D-U-M-B ... You fail to back up any of our BS with actual facts or points of reference.
Oh, BTW, did you see Norv Turner give the "evil eye" to Davis a few minutes ago? BAAAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAA!
Well, at least it was entertaining. No Clown Car this time. Hooray.
Idiotic pass play at the end. Isn't the object to get beyond the first down marker on 4th down? Jeez.
moshbucket's postgame take:
Watched it live on the internet I did! Pretty grainy, but free.
Everyone wiill say russell played better this week (or maybe they won't).
Looked to me like everyone else played better (barring a few blown coverages, unacceptable), and Jamarcus still stunk it up.
-moshbucket
Hook and Ladder for the last play, would of worked if the execution was right.
I found it to be a dull game...both teams looking inept, San Diego isn't much better.
JONES
4th and 20, and we try a timing-based trick play with receivers who just earlier ran into each other? Jeez. How about just trying for a 20 yard completion?
The hook & ladder play call itself was fine.
If Higgins simply secures a VERY catchable ball FIRST then laterals to DHB who was in perfect position, who knows? 1st down? Touchdown? I guess we will never know since once again we failed to execute.
Putting yourself in 3rd & 33 and 4th and 20 at the end of the game is inexcusable.
The critical point in the game to me was Raiders 16 - Chargers 21. Chargers with the ball on their own 7 yard line facing 3rd and 10. That drive was a back breaker chewing up clock, putting 3 points on the board instead of the Raiders getting a 3rd down stop and having great field position.
I'm just not convinced it's the right call considering our personnel. Crawl before you walk. The chances of everyone involved executing that play are slim to none, and certainly less than our chances of Miller or Murphy making a straight up 20-yard play.
This defense continues to give up long drives. Chris Johnson has been beaten in coverage regularly all year. No wonder the Raiders never announced his signing.
Russell doesn't look any better. He missed several open WRs, and regularly throws off his back foot (once up for grabs into triple coverage). He made a couple check downs, which some might say is a sign of improvement, but isn't that what NFL QBs are supposed to do?
The two SD defenders pushing our rookie WRs into each other and to the ground was priceless. Wonder if that ever happened to Tim Brown.
In the end, even if the Raiders scored a TD, what are the chances they make consecutive plays to complete the 8-pt score?
They have yet to score a 3rd qtr TD, and coming into this game had only 3 points in the 3rd qtr all season.
My early prediction for next week? Raiders won't lose.
Mid-way point in the season for the Raiders is usually the time of year when we start examining potential draft picks. Does anyone know who runs the fastest 40 in college right now?
The last play was trick play? Ah good to know I thought Murphy was just trying to lateral the ball since he wasn't at the firstdown marker and he was about to get creamed.
And I don't know... I think Murphy and DHB taking each other out is worthy of the clown car on that play alone.
As for Seymour dogging it, I just don't see it. He's a professional and he'll play like a professional regardless of the choas and dysfunction around him. I also think Oakland is going to have to franchise him. But he stays in Oaklnad.
I watched the Niner/Colt game and admit to a bit of jealousy watching Crabtree... he looks really good out there. Give him a few more reps and I have to agree with AvanteGrape and JC, he's going to be a force. He was the guy I wanted the Raiders to draft. But you never know, maybe Crabtree playing will light a fire under DHB. Stranger things have been know to happen.
Does anyone know who runs the fastest 40 in college right now?
Javed Best.
Okay I know you were being sarcastic... but I wanted to draw attention to Best.
Go Bears!
:-)
There's nothing like watching those two receivers collide a minute earlier to make me think, hey, hook and ladder play to save the game! Surely they'll execute that one perfectly.
Hey... RT actually is posting like he has actual knowledge of the game... which means he actually WATCHED it before whining about how this game is final evidence of all is lost!
An improvement!!
Hey, Gary actually comes in here and doesn't bitch like a little girl that someone dare point out that his hero isn't performing up to a true fan's standards. Is the world flat today or what?
Gary's like the kid who repeatedly butchers songs on American Idol yet thinks he deserves a Grammy. No matter how off the mark he is, he's never short on bravado.
All is not lost. The Raiders are are extending the NFL record for consecutive seasons of futility, but hey it could be worse. We could be...what, exactly? Worse? Worse than the worst ever over a span of seven consecutive seasons?
Classic.
LOL Gary does have a lot of bravado; I'll give him that. Completely empty content though. He was actually bragging about covering the spread in the Raider newsgroup yesterday after the game. You know, I just ran a t-test and found that when Gary makes a prediction, 96.3% of the time he will be wrong. I can say this with a confidence of 95%. *chuckle*
>>>
You know, I just ran a t-test and found that when Gary makes a prediction, 96.3% of the time he will be wrong. I can say this with a confidence of 95%. *chuckle*
>>>
Cool.. a new fan! Guess if you were on Usenet you would have seen my prediction that the SD game was the best bet of the season regarding the Raiders!!
Ka-ching ka-ching!!
You OTOH were expecting a blowout... admit it!!
>>>Gary's like the kid who repeatedly butchers songs on American Idol yet thinks he deserves a Grammy. No matter how off the mark he is, he's never short on bravado.
>>>>
Gosh RT... all I did was point out that it seemed you actually watched the game this week before claiming it was evidence that this is the worst team in the history of teams.
I guess its because American Idol wasn't on (gag).
lol
>>>
Hey, Gary actually comes in here and doesn't bitch like a little girl that someone dare point out that his hero isn't performing up to a true fan's standards. Is the world flat today or what?
>>>
Who is my hero?
>>>
Hey, Gary actually comes in here and doesn't bitch like a little girl that someone dare point out that his hero isn't performing up to a true fan's standards. Is the world flat today or what?
>>>
Who is my hero?
Oh, Gary, don't you ever get tired of your own tricks?
Last week, I watched the game (why you say I didn't is getting weird, I guess that's all you've got left in the absence of facts and logic), and while I didn't declare that this was the "worst team in the history of all teams," (Gary trick alert!) I did point out that it was our worst home loss ever and that it put us on pace to underperform the 2006 team.
Which I realize you didn't like because it was based on something you have a persistent problem with: facts.
Then you started running with scissors, saying that I blamed Seymour for the loss (Gary trick alert!), and then you fell on your scissors (again) and then...well, as with the Raiders, it's deja vu all over again.
I'll give you one thing, you're consistent...like the Raiders.
Russell on his performance: “I did a pretty good job.”
Cable on Russell: “I thought he did some really good (things) today.”
Wow, the standards for a Raiders QB are incredibly low. Total passing yards, 109. Net passing yards, 81.
Russell seems totally content with his abysmal performances, week after week.
Pass the popcorn... the projectionist is here in the form of RT!!
Last week I was certain you didn't watch the game because you didn't mention much SPECIFIC about the game besides singling out Seymore and then pointing out all the yards the team gave up... here it is in its entirety (no snippage, this is the ENTIRE post):
...quote...
Raider Take said...
Richard Seymour + 316 yards rushing - 1st Round Pick in 2011 = ???
6:34 AM
...end quote....
When I watched the game I saw the Jets abuse everything BUT Seymore's side of the ball (and I took the time to provide proof of this) so I wondered why you singled out Seymore unless you didn't watch the game.
So then you tried to pretend that mentioning ONLY Seymore and the yards given up by the team wasn't singling him out... which is not just a fucking "dirty trick" but in bizarro-world territory.
I think you better get rid of those mirrors in your house RT... they certainly aren't doing you much good in self-realization!
BTW.. you guys act like if I blamed everything on Al, and bellyached about how many games we lost every time I post something, the team would start playing better or something.... is that it?
My optimism is holding the team back?
If so... I can come back and bellyache about Al. and whine about how much the losing embarrasses me with the best of you! Hell me and Raider James are discussing sacrificing a live chicken to get this thing turned around... bellyaching more seems less messy!!
There's Gary, back on the grassy knoll again.
Did you see that I didn't even mention Seymour in my postgame take, only later in the comments section, immediately after commenters had initiated dialogue about bigger picture things, such "Now what?" and "We are basically screwed as fans"? Did you notice the mention of the draft pick with regard to Seymour? Was that maybe a hint that I was talking about something more than that specific game? Might it have been a clue that I was addressing the bigger picture with regard to value and draft picks?
Nope, it's just more running down the rabbit hole on the grassy knoll with a pair of scissors...Again.
Gary trick alert: Made a big deal about me "blaming the loss on Seymour" and now changes it to saying I denied "singling him out."
I singled him out to make a larger point about how we exchanged a first-round draft pick for no tangible improvement as TEAM on rushing defense, and how that will dog us as we try to rebuild out of this mess. That has nothing to do with "blaming him" for the loss.
Gary, you're going from bad to worse.
gary said...
>>>
Hey, Gary actually comes in here and doesn't bitch like a little girl that someone dare point out that his hero isn't performing up to a true fan's standards. Is the world flat today or what?
>>>
Who is my hero?
Panty? Blanda?..that would be my guess.
JONES
>>>
Was that maybe a hint that I was talking about something more than that specific game?
>>>
Uhh no.. not at all actually, you are backpedeling so hard your going to break a chain! If one were not speaking specifically of that game, instead of mentioning SPECIFICS of that particular game, most normal people would have mentioned stats from the entire season. If you had said Seymore + "31st against the run..." it prolly wouldn't have even caught my eye.
>>>
I singled him out to make a larger point about how we exchanged a first-round draft pick for no tangible improvement as TEAM on rushing defense, and how that will dog us as we try to rebuild out of this mess. That has nothing to do with "blaming him" for the loss.
>>>
Ok... I'll address that then... thats a short sighted and borderline moronic statement on its own. How are we going to turn this team around relying on rookies and players that know nothing but LOSING????
There's a quote today about how good Shaunassey (sp?) looked and they mentioned how nice it is that these young linemen are accelerating their games so quickly simply by learning from Seymore and Ellis. I could go look for the quote for you but I am kinda busy right now... its somewhere on "Raidernews.com" I'm sure.
Jones... I am not playing... he was referring to JRuss as my hero I am sure. Just a "dirty trick" that RT ignores because he is a fellow ADDSer.
Yeah, I'm really backpedaling. Sure. This coming from someone who defended nearly every bad move over the past several years. Classic.
"Ok... I'll address that then... thats a short sighted and borderline moronic statement on its own. How are we going to turn this team around relying on rookies and players that know nothing but LOSING????"
Come on Gary, will you please stop the circle of stupidity. It's well documented by even CJ, that to turn the team around, it will have to start from the front office. Remember Sapp? Kelly saying how he is learning so much from him? It's the same punch line every year and YOU KEEP FALLING FOR IT. You must be straight out of the movie "Beetlejuice", you can't see the same pattern of insanity year in and year out. Stop it, it isn't real pretty to watch.
Maybe RT ignores it cause you act ignorant to him? This is HIS site, you are just a guest and you rail him pretty good.
Where is the rest of the crew to help you out with your positive outlooks?.. You guys are like this..... you live in a rundown part of town, you got nothing, you sit in your lawnchair that has a rip in it that makes your ass fall through..it's pissing rain, you all have VD and you guys talk about how things are turning around.....it's sad to watch, but some how, it is also funny.
JONES
Calico Jack said:
"Believe it or not, I think the Raiders are going to beat the Chargers"
"Raiders 24 - Chargers 16"
well, calico, you did get the score correct. but the wrong winner.
Gary, you would steer a bus off a cliff and call it a flying lesson.
i'll tell you whats getting sad, it's this blog!!! i used to come in here and have a nice time reading all of your well thought out and nicely worded takes. not just you RT but most of the regular posters in here too. but lately it's just a childish name calling backhanded compliment kick you in the nuts
bashfest!! is the comments section even about the raiders anymore? or just how stupid and retarded and wrong each other are? and don't blame the raiders record this season either, been losing big quite a while, only recently has it gotten this way. and there has always been a few over the top idiots around, they just never sucked you guys in. it's getting old. guess i'll check out somewhere else.
would of signed in but that would just give you kids your next target.
J-Mac tweeted: "Chargers cut Chris Chambers _ he'd immediately be the Raiders' best receiver."
Chambers made a critical 3rd down reception yesterday with the sun in his eyes, following the same basic play that Gates couldn’t make.
If the Raiders are serious about improving their passing game and providing Russell with the proper tools, they need to do something. The WR stable of DHB, Murphy and JLH barely makes one avg NFL WR. They have 23 receptions combined, which projects to 46 receptions for the Raiders top 3 WRs in an entire season.
Crabtree should have no problem matching that number by himself (in half a rookie season).
In reality, there's no way the Raiders pick up Chambers. They still have Walker held in purgatory, and Schilens is probably coming back after the bye. He’s the class of this group, with 15 career receptions. We waited half a season to get this guy back. Any other team would have placed him on IR.
Not to worry, Russell showed tremendous improvement yesterday. Only 1 INT, no fumbles lost, and he threw for well over 100 yards... 109 to be exact.
Who’s running this circus? I’m not sure anybody’s home.
You make a great point, Anon. Guilty as charged.
I just think maybe we're getting bored. The defenders of the indefensible have largely clammed up for obvious reasons, and now the rest of us are turning into cannibals because, unlike the Raiders, it gets the blood pumping.
Then a guy like Gary comes in shouting loony f-bombs about how I didn't watch the game, etc., and off I go, down the rabbit hole.
I endeavored to be thoughtful with this most recent take. Did you like it?
I think that part of the problem is that it's becoming almost futile to talk about Xs and 0s until changes are made at the top.
It's like we're dining at a restaurant that keeps changing the meal but serving up the same old crap because it's the same old chef. At some point, the menu is immaterial, no matter what you put on it.
Anyhow, Anon, thank you for a timely reminder.
Maybe others can join me in trying to find a way to keep things more civil and more interesting, so that we don't lose what made this place fun and different in the first place.
What would you like to talk about?
Xs and Os have become meaningless. It's time for some of the old guard Raiders to stage an intervention with Al Davis.
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Raider Take said...
Yeah, I'm really backpedaling. Sure. This coming from someone who defended nearly every bad move over the past several years. Classic.
>>>
Now RT is resorting to BLATANT lies (while trying to paint me as someone that uses "dirty tricks")!!
Good fucking gawd... ask anyone that was a cheerleader for the McFadden pick how I defended that waste of time and money... or did anyone notice me defending the moronic Heyword/Bey pick?
See the difference RT? I blast Al when I think he makes mistakes, you blast him for everything that has ever happened... prolly just for the fuck of it because it makes you feel better or something? Who knows?
And lets point out the first IAAF/ADDSer here that has said a single word about how well Henderson is playing at RT (the former whipping boy as evidence that Al has lost his mind.) tap tap tap...
Hey, but knock yourself out!!!... you're not going to have problems finding people like JONES to defend you RT... uhh... thats all that is left here!!
lol
Well we could talk about something other than Raiders football (sans politics because that can get even more divisive)
College football anyone? BCS?
Hockey?
NBA?
World Series (though that will probably be over by the next game).
Minor league baseball? Anybody want to talk about Grant Desme? Chris Carter?
The problem, at least for me, with this take was I honestly could not find anything to be hopeful about. And I actually tried. Outside of the kicking game there's nothing top shelf about the Raiders. Nothing that I'm particually hopeful about. And looking long term I don't see anything changing until Mr. Davis steps aside or down or takes a hugely diminished role in the running of the Raiders. And that's just not going to happen. For better or for worse, the Raiders fortunes and by extenstion the fans, are tied to Mr. Davis.
I mean things that shouldn't even be an issue are rising to the top. I'm not even talking about the offense/defense/scouting. But now it seems Cable hurts woman. Which DISGUSTS! me. I cannot tell you the comtempt I have for him.
I keep thinking can it get any worse being a Raider's fan? And apparently it can.
>>>
J-Mac tweeted: "Chargers cut Chris Chambers _ he'd immediately be the Raiders' best receiver."
>>>
I agree! Especially if Schilens keeps having problems!
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"Raiders 24 - Chargers 16"
well, calico, you did get the score correct. but the wrong winner.
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OMFG.. what kind of dickwad would scorn another Raider fan for picking them to WIN?????
... you happy with this RT??
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"Raiders 24 - Chargers 16"
well, calico, you did get the score correct. but the wrong winner.
>>>
OMFG.. what kind of dickwad would scorn another Raider fan for picking them to WIN?????
... you happy with this RT??
"Raiders 24 - Chargers 16"
well, calico, you did get the score correct. but the wrong winner.
That was scornful?
I didn't read it as scornful... more resigned.
Look at it this way gentleman in 3 years Barkley from USC will be available and JR's contract would have been finished.
I'm with you, Toni. I don't get it. I'm going to ignore him until he settles down and takes a deep breath and quits cursing.
I'd say that Cable needs to go at this point. But we need a GM and an overhaul of the organizational mindset to go with the coaching change.
start ground zero again? what happened to continuity? every couple years we start at ground zero and then instantly complain that the turn around is taking too long. i say pick someone then stick with them and allow them the time to turn it around. if it's cable, i'm fine with that, you want to start over, i'm fine with that too. but pick someone for at least the next 5 years. stick with him reguardless and see if something can be done.
i do see some positive things to build around on this team. those that don't....well...to each their own. but if we keep re-starting every couple years the whole re-building thing starts with each coaching change, so ya gotta give it time i say.
frkyraider
I agree that we need continuity. But I think we need continuity with a coach who's up to the job. We haven't had one of those for a while. I think Cable is in over his head. But I agree, it's pointless without a larger plan in place.
Hiring a GM and holding an actual head coaching search comprised of numerous highly qualified candidates would be a nice start.
Also, if we can agree that we need a highly qualified and authoritative GM to take control of the daily football operations, ask yourself: How many such candidates would accept the GM job with the intent of, or on condition of, keeping Tom Cable as the head coach? Probably none.
Flipped past the saints-falcons game for 1 play. Just thought about how F-ed up the falcons were 2 years ago.
Let's see who shows for the chefs game...
I'm also really looking forward to the cowboys game
on Thanksgiving.
In-laws + embarrassment on national tv = really drunk.
ok, so we need what we can't have. is that it then? it's over? into the abyss with us?
frkyraider
Al aint going anywhere and he aint givin up control of HIS team. so
thats it then? it's over? into the abyss with us?
frkyraider
Anon 4:37 - I don't believe the Raiders would sign Chambers no matter what Schilens' status is. They are determined to fail with their rookie WRs, neither of which would start on any other team this year (although, Murphy has completely out-played DHB).
Heyward-Bey has 5 receptions on the season, and all his HC can say is he throws a nice block. Murphy has dropped his share of balls, but at least he appears serviceable. He could be decent slot WR.
The Raiders would say Ground Zero is an inappropriate description in a post-911 world, but that about sums it up. This team has become radioactive waste.
Continuity, continuity?, your talking about continuity? That's very funny, continuity? Wow...I think you need a direction before you can have any continuity. There is no direction, case and point, Russell sitting on the bench AFTER EVERY SERIES. Not even making an effort to improve his chances of making a completion for over 20 yrds. This is the face of the franchise and you are talking about continuity? I find it very hard to have a good feeling about anything with this team....no matter how much people try to act as if it is a normal franchise. The franchise is the Hotel California, some of the fans are just as absurd as the owner, it is embarrassing....YIKES.
JONES
Take, the overhead projector might be warming up:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-raiders-cable&prov=ap&type=lgns
Its interesting that the Raiders commented so fast on the spousal abuse story. I'd bet that they never asked Cable about the subject during the interview, but I wouldn't be surprised if they use that to establish a case to fire him "for cause" for failing to disclose that to the team.
yes continuity, as in we made cable the head coach to try and keep continuity with the offence, so as not to start from ground....er...from scratch.
frkyraider
Freaky...DINGDINGDINGDINGDIng...Al Davis has only done it twice, hired a REAL HC...will he do it again? Will he ever swallow his ego and understand that he is done? If he hasn't figured it out by now....yeah, it is bleak, many recognized this a long time ago, better late than never..
JONES
so your out then jones? off the ol bandwagon?
frkyraider
Frkyraider, I see Arthur Blank sitting next to his GM tonight, and he doesn't look like he's given up control of his team.
He looks like an owner who took decisive action to get the right people to do the right jobs. He looks totally in control.
Where is the shame in Al Davis getting help? Was there any shame in having Bruce Allen?
An owner wears so many hats, how can he be expected to be on top of all the scouting and drafting and GM-type details, especially at 80 years old? That's a full-time job unto itself, without all of the other demands that an owner must attend to.
But if we maintain the status quo because of some warped view of "control," then why should I expect anything to change? Based on what?
You want this guy as your long term HC? You think they have an offense? What game are you watching? What world are you from? You are giving the word freaky a bad name.
Am I out? YOU THINK I WOULD HAVE LEFT BY NOW??? Truly is absurd...I'll wait, I'm a patient guy, until then, my mission is to get Raider fans to quit pretending that things will work themselves out. Al Davis needs to know that this is so wrong in so many ways. This will take HUGE message from the Nation. If there are too many of your type, that continue to spread the BS that it's all OK...the mission cannot be completed. You must go down freaky, just like the rest of the CREW.
JONES
The idea of sticking with the 2rookie WRs and force feeding their development is killing this team from a competitive standpoint.
No team in the entire history of the NFL has ever started 2 rookie WRs ... it only makes it worse that our 2 rookie WRs are unproductive.
This team has needed a solid veteran WR to anchor the unit. At what point was Walker ever a viable option? How long do we need to wait on Shillens who is the equivalent of a rookie?
Signing Chris Chambers to a short term, incentive laden contract is a no-brainer.
Let's see ... do we need a fast, competent, sure-handed, established WR to improve our passing attack?
BTW, no offense was taken about my game prediction Gary. Call me crazy but I thought the Raiders would win yesterday.
As far as our Head Coaching situation ... does it really matter if Cable stays or goes? Without a GM in place, what proven HC candidate would join our cess pool? It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Davis leaves Cable in limbo, tries to get another HC, fails, and keeps Cable on for 2010.
it is what it is at this point. isn't it? just asking what your gonna do. bail? jump off the bandwagon? are you quiting? what is your position? i'm still here supporting my team. thats my position.
if you know what the situation is then make a stand one way or the other. your either with us or against us. you choose.
it's easy to say from our vantage point they should do this or that without having to be the ones to pay the repercussions or our "decisions"
frkyraider
why the personal attack jones? whats your problem? able to hold a normal disscusion?
frkyraider
and when did i say "all will be ok"?
Very interesting read:
http://www.examiner.com/x-514-Oakland-Raiders-Examiner~y2008m9d23-Greatness-of-Oakland-Raiders-in-the-past
Like Take says week in and week out; along with the majority of us. The front office must change in-order for us to change. Or better yet, just having one would suffice lol....
RT: Arthur Blank clearly understands his limitations and delegates responsibility to the people he hired and trusts.
I am not impressed by an 80 year old man attempting to wear so many hats.
What would really impress me is if Davis put the best interest into the team first and his ego a very distant second.
His chase for glory is tragic. He wants to be a maverick and have his fingerprints on the organization to the point where he is lost.
Davis wants glory.
Glory comes from winning.
The best chance of winning is hiring a GM and proven Head Coach.
To hire a GM and proven Head Coach steals Davis spotlight (in his mind) if the team wins.
A truly sad, pathetic, and vicious cycle.
What Davis fails to realize is if he wants another legitimate shot at glory he needs to willingly lighten his grip on the steering wheel.
Lighten up freak...you don't have to go crying over a little ribbing do ya?
I'm with the MANY fans who now out number the "your with us or you ain't" crowd. I remember a certain president using that BS line to get people to fall for his illegal war...oh well, no need for that discussion... I'm with the fan that is just hanging in there, hoping for the clouds to pass. I don't have to be one way or another, no matter what ultimatums you give me.
JONES
Frkyraider, I'm not bailing. I'm just applying tough love and stating the obvious.
I mean, say it out loud: "80-year-old owner, sticking to the operational status quo and still refusing to hire a GM after his team extends the NFL record for consecutive seasons of futility."
Does that sound good to you?
As CJ says: "I am not impressed by an 80 year old man attempting to wear so many hats. What would really impress me is if Davis put the best interest into the team first and his ego a very distant second."
Do you think that any of the old Raiders are looking at this and thinking, deep down, "Yeah, status quo! You go, Al!"
I doubt it. That wouldn't mean they are "against" the Raiders. It would mean that they are "for" the Raiders. Like me.
either of you play any football ever? jones, RT? do you know what having a foxhole mentality is? thats where the Raiders are, in a foxhole. and your either here to root and fight for your team or your against us. you can wear the colors and say yeah yeah i'm on the Raiders side but if you aint supporting us then your against us. i won't let you have it both ways, i'll catagorize you right where i think you belong. outside the foxhole.
btw i totally agree that we need to hire a GM, and when Al finds the one he wants to turn the keys over to, you know what, i'll support him.
the Raiders are MY team, and like Al...i aint going anywhere!!!
frkyraider
This downturn in fortunes is not cyclical. It is not a mere bump in the road. It is a product of continuous mismanagement at the top.
The GM slot being vacant for so long is downright negligent.
The Head Coach candidate selection process has been a complete travesty.
Until there is a premium placed on fixing these 2 areas, the organization will continue to be cellar dwellers.
Anyone associated with the organization, past or present, knows Al needs help. Deep down inside, Al knows he needs help. It seems like he is:
(a) oblivious to the obvious
(b) boxed himself in by not allowing himself to trust others
(c) lost sight of the means to the prize
Freak:
You say we have an obligation to the team if we want to be considered a fan. It goes 2 ways bubalouie, obviously, the team isn't hold up it's end of the bargain. You ever hear of "return on your dollar"? Well, there is negative return and has been for many years. What kind of fool keeps putting his dollars or emotions into something that never returns it? Sorry, I'm not strung that way...I have waited long enough for Alameda to turn it around....SHOW ME THE MONEY (wins).
I will watch, but I will also understand the situation and deal with it accordingly....your melancholy calls of foxhole nonsense won't change it. Stop with the "patriotism" card and the war references, it's disgusting.
JONES
Also freak, who cares if I'm in your foxhole or not. It has no bearing on how I view the team. You think a threat from you is going to decide how I feel about being a fan? Don't be so arrogant.
JONES
Funny how Calico Jack's points A, B and C might perfectly describe a misguided foxhole mentality, eh?
The TRUTH is a beautiful thing
JONES
frkyraider:
You are treading a very slippery slope as soon as you start painting such broad, simplistic brushstrokes.
Am I in the "foxhole" with you if I am pissed off about 7 seasons of double digit losses?
The black and white, foxhole analogy is fine if you are talking about the military but certainly not for being a fan of a football franchise.
How exactly do you define "support"?
Is it by the number hours devoted, $ spent, articles read, gear worn, games watched?
The big questions to ask you:
Can a supportive fan be in the proverbial "foxhole" if he voices his displeasure and is critical of an organization that has won less than 25% of the games the last 7 years?
(Absolutely ... anything less is Jim Jones territory)
Can a supportive fan turn the game off at halftime in digust?
(You bet ... I am not a drone who is hooked up to a tv monitor)
Can a supportive fan choose not to spend $600 for a game in Oakland and instead spend it on a vacation in Ixtappa?
(BINGO! ... it is called quality of life decisions)
Can a supportive fan decide to pass on purchasing a new Raider hat since he's already got 8 or 9?
(Yup ... it is only natural that your purchases of gear goes up when you are more fired up about the team)
Can a supportive fan ratchet down/up his time/$ invested in direct correlation to the product on the field.
(You got it amigo.)
Bottom Line:
We all have different levels of devotion depending on our own values, circumstances, and how the team is doing.
Quite frankly, I have found that some of the most critical fans to be some of the most dedicated. There is nothing wrong with "tough love" in my book. Many fans are in the phase of ratcheting down their investment until the Raiders orgainzatioin "proves it, shows me, earns my fandom".
i'll take that as a no, i've never played football from both of you then? kinda figured that.
frkyraider
so the three chapionship trophies haven't done that for you CJ? will you then change your stance if we don't change the way you wish but win anyway? or how bout we make the changes you want but don't win another?
as far as i go, i have been a Raider fan since i can remember, early 70's. my fandom has
nothing to do with our current record. period. i am a Raiders fan and am proud to be one. i have the Raiders back dispite the difference of opinion that i have with some of the decisions that are made.
jones, do you think for one second that what you say has any bearing on how i view you? and just where was my threat to you? talk about arrogant.
"Also freak, who cares if I'm in your foxhole or not. It has no bearing on how I view the team. You think a threat from you is going to decide how I feel about being a fan? Don't be so arrogant"
go crawl back into the Jr High locker you crawled out of!! there will be alot of people around with your same intellect.
frkyraider
No, I never played the game. Therefore, I am wrong. The Raiders should stick with the status quo. They have played the game, albeit awfully for the past seven years. Clearly, their organizational model should be imitated. It's evident to everyone who played the game.
Frky, regarding this comment:
"i have the Raiders back despite the difference of opinion that i have with some of the decisions that are made."
In terms of decisions, where do you stand on the big ones: refusal to hire GM, coaching selection process, coaching choices, scouting decisions, free agency behavior and draft approach?
Just curious how much you "have their back" as opposed to, say, me.
don't put words in my mouth RT, i never said i would like to stick with the satus quo. as a matter of fact i said i would be behind the hiring of a GM, among other things that i have diffence of opinion with.
if you've never played the game the the foxhole reference has no meaning to you. you would have had to play, coach or be somehow involved with a team that was losing. i asked the question for a reason, so i'd understand where your comin from and not for the reason you percieve, me thinking you don't know the game.
everyone jumping me becuase i'm loyal to the Raiders. and yet you call yourselves die hard Raider fans. this is truely bizzaro world.
frky-RAIDER
>>>
The GM slot being vacant for so long is downright negligent.
The Head Coach candidate selection process has been a complete travesty.
>>>
I agree with you on a GM, but are you honestly pining for another coaching change?
Holy crap... maybe if Gruden wants back in with Allen, but anything less than that... for gawds sake can we PULEASE stop this maniacal coaching carousel?
Its why I keep saying so many Raider fans hate Al so much... they are exactly alike!!
Well, Frky, if you think Mr. Davis needs a GM, which is a HUGE hole in the operational mindset, then maybe you've got one foot out of that foxhole you reside in?
I've played sports, if that's what you're asking. Just not football. I do know that, if at any time playing those sports, I was part of a team that was stuck in the "foxhole" for years and setting records for futility, I would desperately want the leaders to get their heads out of the hole and into the light and make some substantive changes like...I don't know...Hire a GM? I'm glad we agree.
I just think you're playing the game of splitting hairs. You refuse to actually align yourself with the obvious organizational dysfunction, yet you want credit for being in the "foxhole" with the organization.
If you're in, then get in, and embrace it for what it is, eh?
Yes, Gary, that's the spirit:
Conduct a farce of a head coaching search.
Hire a coach who's in over his head.
And THEN suddenly discover a commitment to continuity after that coach piles up an awful record.
And THEN hire a good GM...Wait, you can't, because no good GM would accept the position on the condition that Cable remains the head coach.
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Do you think that any of the old Raiders are looking at this and thinking, deep down, "Yeah, status quo! You go, Al!"
I doubt it. That wouldn't mean they are "against" the Raiders. It would mean that they are "for" the Raiders. Like me.
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Do you honestly think obsessively complaining about it is going to change Als mind or something??
lol
You go guy!
Yeah, I do. I'm happy to be part of the alarm clock, just as you are happy to be a part of the snooze button. We'll see this offseason whether or not the Raiders wake up or continue to nap. Game on.
are we going thru all these again? ok.
i want a GM. when Al finds the one HE wants.
coaching selection process. i beleived that we hired cable to keep the continuity with the offence. not change the whole team offence and defense all at the same time. i thought Tom Cable was just as good if not better than the other fellow.
scouting decisions. well while we have blown some picks, who hasn't? we also picked some good ones late, but who hasn't.
free agency behavior. i like that Al is not afraid to go after wht he thinks will help this team, reguardless of price. if he didn't do that it would be all the rage that he never spends to get the good guys. there have been mistakes in FA don't get me wrong, but again who hasn't had those?
as you can see we are not that far apart in veiws. but we are worlds apart on support or "having their back". i beleive in loyalty to the end. but thats just me. i don't expect you all to be the same.
you'll always know where to find me, i'll be the one driving the bandwagon. hop back on anytime but don't be expecting high fives from me when the winning starts. and it will start again. when? i dunno. but it will.
frkyraider
Uhh... RT this season is only half over right.. or am I missing something?
What, fire Cable now or something, or what is your point?
Preemptive whining in case he doesn't turn the season around?
No rush, but he needs to go if we're going to hire a good GM and move to the next level.
>>>
you'll always know where to find me, i'll be the one driving the bandwagon.
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Damn you... I wanna drive!!! The "glad to be wrong" crowd can sit on the luggage on the top.
You know they will still be whining just as much... they did it almost the entire time we had three championship seasons too... I remember!
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Raider Take said...
No rush, but he needs to go if we're going to hire a good GM and move to the next level.
>>>
Maybe IF Cable loses complete control of the team at the end like Shell did, but anything short of that, I doubt any new GM is moronic enough to hire a 6th coach in 7 years (or whatever it is).
True change will get the bandwagon out of the ditch. Change is the hook and rope. Somebody's got to stand for it, happy to oblige. You'll high five me when the new GM and new coach and new scouting regime pull you out of the ditch.
freak said:
"jones, do you think for one second that what you say has any bearing on how i view you? and just where was my threat to you? talk about arrogant"
Isn't that how we all view other people? By what they say and do? Like I said, what world are you from?
I have played football, my last year we won 2 games...it sucked and there were many reasons for why we sucked. Any other "I'm better than you" cards you can play?
Go ahead, feel superior cause you love a dysfunctional organization that isn't doing one thing right for it's fans...Knock yourself out....you may call that loyal, I call it INSANE. Bang your head on the wall while you are at it, makes just as much sense.
JONES
Yeah, I'm sure a guy like Bill Parcells would come in here and say, you know what, that Cable guy, he's great, and he represents continuity. I'd be crazy to start new at this point.
Jeez.
Oh , I'm gonna cut off my nose because ..why? Al Davis has turned the team into a toxic mess. Can't hire a decent HC, can't hire a GM... who could work under Al? Really, anyone with a backbone gets axed or leaves. Players now avoid Oakland like the H1N1 flu. Come on, it's got nothing to do with having one's back. It's called having a FREAKin PRO FOOTBALL TEAM that is run in a way to produce results. Alameda is run in a way that does not produce results. THIS IS WHY WE GET PISSED OFF AND CALL FOR CHANGE. FREAKin INSANE.
I swear, you guys in the crew HAVE TO BE working for Al Davis, nobody can be this ridiculous without trying, can they?
JONES
Fyrkraider: The 3 SB Championships were glorious achievements we are all rightfully proud of. I became a fan in 1970. What does that have to do with the current discussion?
I will gladly answer your questions directly.
Will I change my "stance" if the Raiders win despite keeping the status quo?
Yes. The only thing that matters to me is fielding a competitive, playoff caliber team.
However, having said that, I believe a solid GM and HC is the cornerstone of sustained excellence.
To become a playoff caliber team without a GM, an 80 year old owner, and a mariginally qualified HC are very long odds.
Will I be happy if we make the changes I want but don't win another? Yes.
Hiring a GM and qualified, competent HC is IMHO the only way to create a REAL oppportunity to become a playoff caliber team.
If we make these changes and fall short I can live with it. Guess why? At least we made every effort in a functional, logical way to give the fans tangible hope. At the end of the day, all I'm asking for is real hope. On the current path, I don't believe real hope exists.
I STRONGLY believe that Davis needs executive support and a solid proven HC to change the path we are on. I don't believe a solid, proven, capable HC candidate will give us the time of day without a GM already in place.
To Frykraider & Gary:
If the Raiders win 5 games or less this year, do you think Cable deserves to be retained for "continuity's" sake? Please give me your honest answer.
If Cable is fired and we don't have a GM in place, do you honestly see a competent, proven HC joining our organization? Please give me your honest answer.
Since both of you seem quite content with the current state of affairs, please share with us tangible reasons that we should also be so hopeful. What exactly are you hangin' your hats on? Divine intervention? The Alameda miracle? When do you expect the turnaround and by what means?
I love irony. Gary's favorite word is "whine." And that's what he does just about every other post: 'You're not real fans! Support Al Davis! He KNOWS what he's doing!' Is this guy a control freak or what?
Guys like Gary are always moving the goalpost. The fact is this: he's wrong over 90% of the time, and he still brags about it. Pathetic.
CJ said,"Many fans are in the phase of ratcheting down their investment until the Raiders orgainzatioin "proves it, shows me, earns my fandom".
i said '"so the three championship trophies haven't done that for you CJ?"
Fyrkraider: The 3 SB Championships were glorious achievements we are all rightfully proud of. I became a fan in 1970. What does that have to do with the current discussion?
was a retort to your statement CJ.
frkyraider
IMO, Al Davis is incapable of letting go. The right (better late than never) time to hire a GM-type would have been when he fired Kiffin and promised to engage help. Since we’re talking foxholes, that was DEFCON 3. We are now at DEFCON 1.
Whether it’s his ego, trust issues, clinical psychosis or whatever, he will almost certainly maintain his stranglehold on this organization.
There is no way he will relinquish control of his empire as long as HE believes he is capable of, well, whatever it is that he is doing.
Is anyone here laying odds that Davis has willed instructions on how the team should be run after his death? Ok, maybe that’s a little out of line, but I’m pretty fed up.
I will immensely regain respect for Al Davis if he can change the culture of his own making, hire a competent GM and charge that person to bring us out of this mess. Modernize.
Like Calico said, I would better accept failure if I believed we did everything we could to avoid it. Right now, we embrace failure like it’s our responsibility to be the NFL’s punching bag... like “real” teams need that extra bye week, or a scrimmage to prepare for their next game.
No mas!
What does "playing football" have to do with your analogy of where the Raiders are currently Freaky?
I've played football, and while playing football, you are in a "foxhole" when your back is against it during the game, and you're on a make-or-break drive.
7 Seasons of losing is not considered in a "foxhole". To imply that we are in a foxhole is to imply that we are battling and leaving our best on the field, win or lose. LEAVING YOUR BEST ON THE FIELD! This is something the Raiders are NOT doing. Sure they'll show up for a couple of close games, and maybe win a few of them; but in no way are they even allowing their best to be on the field. Where's Javon? He's healthy, and he's a better WR than Higgins, DHB, and Watkins. He'd be a great compliment for Murphy; and when Chaz comes back, he'd be a great slot.
The other part of leaving it all on the field, is playing to your strengths. How are we playing to our strengths offensively? Our strength is the running game. When was the last time you saw a Raider RB with 20+ carries and over 120 yards? Fargas had 23 carries against the Eagles, but only 87 yards. You ready for this, it was Week 2 last season against the Chiefs. Darren McFadden, 21 Carries, 164 Yards in a 23-8 Win! He left after that game with Turf Toe.
The Raiders aren't in a "foxhole".
They are in the downward spiral of a whirlpool in the middle of the sea. The ship is going down with the captain.
being in the foxhole is an analogy to your either with us or against us nate. if your sitting there talkin smack about my team you certainly are not in the foxhole with me are you? thats what i'm talking about. you people sit out here and spew venom about the team you "call" your own, even tho i have some of the same opinions you don't hear me doing that. thats called supporting your team. i have no problem with the opinions you all have and are entitled to. it's the way you express them that bothers me. i love this team and it shows, you say you do but i don't see it. everyone wants to win, but to quit on the team and start talking shit about them is how you get your fandom questioned. period. if your mom made some mistakes, a bunch of em in a row, would you start talking shit about her too? of course not, thats love and loyalty. if you answered yes, well you'll get what you deserve in the end.
frkyraider
i would hope you would support her and root for her to turn things around all the while giving your love and support. i would not expect you to be out talkin shit to everyone who would listen about her and how she'll NEVER turn herself around util she does what i think needs to happen. trying to turn all supporters around and rally against ol Mom.
frkyraider
Frkyraider, you are creating an uncomfortable standard if I must treat my sports teams like my mother.
But let's run with it...If your mother is going down a consistently bad path (the motherly equivalent of setting NFL records for futility), you have a responsibility speak up and let her know and suggest that she change.
That's not talking s***, it's manning up.
Would you do it publicly? No.
But your mother is not a public figure. She does not charge people to come watch her. You can just go over to her house and talk to her.
The fans speak to the Raiders the only way they can, online or in (or out) of the seats.
Freak said..
"i would hope you would support her and root for her to turn things around all the while giving your love and support."
Ever seen that show "Intervention"?
Ole Ma (Raiders/AlDavis) is in dire need of one...thing is, those close to her/him are to shit scared to do it. It's because they think like FREAKY, continue to give them money to continue their bad ways. Continue to tell them that what their doing is OK, just keep going and it will turn itself around. You see freak, your BS about loyalty and "foxhole" is just garbage to enable the "addict" to continue their poor behavior....you are the enabler that lets the shitrope continue.....way to go, how proud are you?
JONES
this might shock some people here, but i think Tom Cable is doing a pretty good job as HC.
let's consider for a moment that mr cable has been handed some of the worst talent in the league.
he also, like every other raider HC, is forced to abide by an outdated, passive defensive scheme.
Tom Cable has, at least stats wise, perhaps the worst starting Qb in nfl history.
he can bring in the backup, you say.
backup ? what backup ? the GM has made sure there is no backup Qb, help for the HC.
but even with all this stacked against him. even with offensive, "talent", that is lucky to score one TD per game. Cable has managed 2 victories, one against the playoff caliber, eagles.
Tom Cable, quietly, has also managed to do something not many past raider Hc's have done. he has gotten those maddening penalties under control.
i submit, that with the raiders getting some players healthy. if the defense were allowed to play aggressive, and with even a little help from the horrid Qb, the raiders would not be far off from the 8-8 team many of us thought they would be.
yes, Cable has some skeletons in his closet.
but given the roster he was handed, and the defense scheme he must use, i do not believe he is doing a bad job.
Give the man a raise and a contract extension!
You might have a point here. The problem is that, considering all of the conditional "ifs" that you delineate, my old joke of a "10 year plan to .500" could actually come very true.
And I thought I was exaggerating when I said that.
Loopy Gary said:
"OMFG.. what kind of dickwad would scorn another Raider fan for picking them to WIN?????"
Gary, i was simply pointing out the irony in calico's pick. right score, wrong winner. i guess you're not much into irony.
so relax gary. you don't care about winning or losing, you only want to be entertained.
remember that classic gary blog ?
I'm not even sure entertainment is a requirement any more. He seems content with blowouts.
i have my way jones and you have yours. yours is to throw a shit fit and attack anyone that disagrees with you. mine is more subtle. so you label me the enabler and i label you the quiter, hmm i guess i'll take mine. but let me ask you this , what has your way gotten you? no futher along than mine. you won't be changing anything and neither will i. the Raiders are going to do what they are gonna do. period. unless your getting hired anytime soon, which i doubt. you say it won't change till AD is gone, well he aint going anywhere, so what ya gonna do now? it's gonna be one looong shit fit if you plan on outlasting him. you see you wont change vinager into wine no matter how long you kick and scream and pound your little fists on the ground. but go ahead thats just you way. you can personally attack me and anyone else who dares have a different opinion than you and have your fit, your entitled,
being the child that you are. knock yourself out.....please.
RT, the standard IS a stretch but it was to show what loyalty means to some. i personally am as loyal as they come, to friends family and team. and excellent points about being a public figure. nice counter to my point. but if you think what has been happening in here is "manning up" i'm laughing right now just typing it. you and your little lapdog jones are flat out backhanding "your" team every single sentence you write. jones can't help himself but personally attack everyone that disagrees with the both of you and you think your jabs and insults are somehow helping bring all of this "disfunction" to light. they are not. proven by how close our opinions of what we would do with the team are. every time you backhand and insult "your" team you prove to me what a disloyal bandwagon jumping fan you are. the whole if we were winning i'd be behind them thing. to me either your a fan or your not, i see seahawk "fans" everyday up here in seattle sporting their gear and talking shit about their team, since they are 2-5 like us i guess thats ok then, or do they have to lose some more to jump off. couple more seasons? maybe break our record for futility? (thought i'd better say it before you do) i dunno what the criteria is for that. but i do know when i sit and listen to them i think "wow, those are some great fans ya got there hawks!!!" i've always thought the Raider Nation was better than that. some are, some aren't i guess. to each their own.
CJ on the other hand is fed up and i can see it, but he has constructive stuff to say. not the insults and jabs. you see making fun of and insulting "your" team IS talking shit about them. i don't understand how you think it's "manning up". (still making me laugh typing that.) but once again thats your opinion and your entitled to it. but i don't have to agree with it. which btw i don't.
still rootin for MY team
frkyraider
Frkyraider, I'm not sure what you classify as talking s**** about the team, maybe go through my takes and give me some examples.
As for manning up, yes, I think that tough love is manning up compared to the fingers-in-the-ears, hands-over-the-eyes, hear-no-evil enabling nonsense espoused by certain folks.
Since you seem to agree with me regarding what should be done, what do you propose I write about?
The Raiders give me bad information on a near weekly basis, year after year. Because I write a Raiders blog, I have to write something about the facts at hand.
And the facts are that we still stink after all these years, and that there's no reason to believe we won't stink for the remainder of the season.
You are right about Calico Jack, he's probably more mature in his language than yours truly. But if you read his takes, he and I are two peas in a pod with regard to what's going on and what should be done.
I invite you to write a guest take (or two or three, because trust me, it gets harder as you go along) that would show your outsized loyalty WHILE at the same time being very honest about the facts at hand.
I would put them on the front page of Raider Take, and then you could call this site fair and balanced, eh?
No general manager, no head coach (because c'mon you know that nobody other than a high school coach would coach our team), no qb, no receivers, remove Fargas and no running game, no offensive line, 2 out of the 4 defensive lineman suck, the worst lb corps of the nfl with the 2 sissies of morrison and howard, remove Nandi and we also need corners and safeties.
Oh and by the way let's hope and pray that the Raider's stay in Oakland, because just like mandy moss and all the pre-maddona player in the nfl, they will move to the next town where they will not get grief from the fans because their feelings get hurt.
Freak, there will come a time when you finally say ENOUGH...it happens to all of us. I just see things and have for a long time. I saw it in the 90's, Gruden was a respite, but it all came back to a dysfunctional mess. Some people are used to it, the older I get, the more it sickens me.
I can't support what is going on, I just can't. If a guy is beating his wife, out of loyalty, would you have his back? Everytime I watch the Raiders, it's like watching my friend abuse his wife. So what Am I supposed to do? Been a fan since the 70's, my Dad carved a Raidersheild with my family name on it hanging in my living room. NO, I'm not going to sit back and say I accept it, I'm going to do what I can for what is RIGHT. Alameda ain't right Freak, it hasn't been right for a long time.......these are my Raiders as much as anyone else, I want MY RAIDERS TO FUCKIN WIN. Screw all the weak knee'd BOZO'S who continue to support this BULLSHIT. AM I GETTIN THROUGH TO YA FREAK?
JONES
Freak, as far as me being a quitter...you are the one who has resigned himself to garbage, not me. You are the one who has given in to the shitrope, you defend it, like a badge of honor. Not me bud, I do what I can to spread the word of the sickness that haunts our team. I have NEVER blinked at even thought of supporting another team, if you call that quitting....going on 40 YEARS BUDDY, if I was a quitter...I wouldn't be on here giving you shit, now would I?
JONES
homework for me? i think not. i think you know when your writing the snarky remarks about "your' team that they are snarky. i need not go back re-read and repost your takes to prove to who, you...me? that your being backhanded with your posts. WE already know that. besides if i did that i would only be accused of taking something out of context or some other issue with the ones i choose. i haven't the time for all the work involved in such confrontation. had a little time the last couple days which is why i've even been posting. otherwise i barley have enuff time on a daily basis to read your blog and comments, which is why i rarley comment myself.
as far as the guest take, it's been along time since you've done those. i enjoyed those. i will see what i can do and maybe i'll jot one out some time. i beleive i am one of the only people that actually tell you straight up thank you for this place to come and talk with like minded poeple. and i've been one of a few that compliment you about your writing style and how you way a way with words, quite the wordsmith you are. so please don't misunderstand me, i appreciate and am thankful for RAIDER TAKE. i respect the time it must take, your hiatus was quite the bummer for me personally, i understood it but quite the bummer none the same. thanks for the offer for a guest take, i may just do it!! as for now it's back to the daily reader rare poster. we're missing a couple of fellow wordsmiths like yourself that were more walking in my shoes than the negative ones that seem so popular today. miss ya BR and H!! yeah you too Panty, your a little over the top but God love ya, i miss it!!
frkyraider
ok ok jones, you've had your fit for the day, now run along the adults are talkin here.
frkyraider
Can't refute what I write, hey Freak? Brush it off cause you can't handle the TRUTH.....you are the weak one, you can't face up to reality and deal with it. You continue to live a lie....that's what WEAK PEOPLE DO.
JONES
Well, Frkyraider, now you're making me all sentimental and stuff.
Sure, I might be a bit snarky at times, but sometimes it's just me trying to find a new or entertaining way to say the same old thing.
You want to talk about homework?
Try having an intelligent and fresh take after the Raiders get blasted by the Giants, right after getting blasted by the Texans, right after getting blasted by the Broncos, in the wake of six straight years of getting blasted. Now that's homework.
You're right, you're not a quitter, because you're still here. Props for that.
At least you, like PantyRaider, don't ask me to bend spoons (and facts) to understand where you're coming from. Your beefs have legitimacy.
Bring on the guest take--and tell us why you think Raiders fans should still spend their hard-earned cash to fill the Coliseum no matter what transpires, no matter how poor the product year in and year out! That would be a good one.
P.S. Insightful quote from Jerry Mac on Al Davis today:
"I do know that in the past he's hired good people whose opinions he has valued. He's argued with them, not always done what they say, but at least had people who were very good at their jobs and could sell their point of view. And those people also had respect for Al, even if he's no gem to work with. That doesn't exist any more."
People say, well Al's way is Al's way. But he's gotten away from his way, and the results speak for themselves. Sad but true, and I don't think it's disloyal to face those results.
The idea that I'm supposed to 'jump into a foxhole' with a failing product is absurd. These war analogies have no place here. Football is entertainment, and it's entertainment paid for by the fans and advertisers. We have the RIGHT to DEMAND a better product when it's complete shit. So spare me this 'with us or against' us crap. It's lame enough as a foreign policy strategy.
Frykraider:
I believe loyalty is a wonderful trait to possess. However, I think you need to come to grips with loyal fans of the Raiders voicing their displeasure, venting their disappointment, and openly criticizing the current state of affairs.
My opinions over the past few days are in the context of a record breaking slide of ineptitiude. 7 continuous years of winning less than 25% of our games is historically dismal. It is beyond Lions bad or Bucs bad.
The situation at hand is begging for significant, impactful change to how business is conducted in Alameda.
Will Davis throw a lifeline of hope to the loyal Raider fans by making these changes? Does he care enough about his own legacy and the team's place in history to snap out of his status quo doldrums? Does he have the wherewithal and cajones to set the Raiders on a new path?
We shall see by the actions (or inaction) he takes over the course of the next few months. I am quite certain that by March of next year we will have the answer.
More maddening inaction by Raiders ... Chiefs claim Chambers.
All the folks pissed at me for suggesting change are really going to be livid when they see this site:
www.messagetoal.com
"When asked if the Raiders might consider veteran Chris Chambers, released by San Diego, Cable said, “I don’t think so at this point with who we have.” "
Says it all, doesn't it?
JONES
Yea, we have 2 WR's comming off injury, and holes all over the roster. Go out and sign another Javon Walker (if we could trade him for walker that would be another matter).
Why can't you guys accept the fact that Al has deemed this a rebuilding (wait, sorry, reloading. Sorry Al), season and has decried the children shall play. Not saying you have to be happy with it.
-moshbucket
Hope.
First, I hope we win some games!!!!
I hope we draft either Terrence Cody DT or Rolando McLain ML.
I hope it's McLain at 17 or so, and not Cody in the top five.
I hope al DOES go out and get Gruden and Lombardi back.
Wasn't Lombardi Art's rat in the henhouse? Could Al look Art in the face again?
In such a scenario, I hope Cable will move back to oline coach.
And finally, I hope we go undefeated in the second half and get the wildcard and beat Denver in the AFC championship game.
OK, since the last one should have been in 'pipe dream' category I've got one more:
I HOPE we can get the O-line DRAMATICALLY upgraded by next year. This means at a minimum new RT, RG, C, and possibley new LT (really haven't been watching how mario's doing, but never hear anything about him which is usually good for olinemen).
-moshbucket
Hope (and why I want McClain):
“Rolando McClain. He is smart. He is real smart. He has all the pieces a great linebacker should possess. He is smart. He is fast. He will hit you. It’s like Coach Saban being out there on defense, just picture Coach Saban being huge and being able to play football, that’s what it’s like out there.”"
-Javier Arenas
On how close you and Coach Saban’s personalities are:
“We are somewhat similar. We are both perfectionists. We have a low tolerance for guys who don’t know what to do and I think that’s what makes us somewhat similar. Obviously, he’s a guy that knows what to do and being my third year, I pretty much know a lot about this defense, and we’re both good leaders. I guess that’s the comparison.”
-Rolando McClain
You know it's bad when you're looking forward to the draft during week eight of the season. By then, I hope that we have a GM and improved scouting regime in place to help make these decisions. People who can not only look at the tapes of these kids, but who will aggressively interview them, look deeply into their backgrounds and character, and embark on an architect-like approach to building a winner position by position, with an emphasis on character and toughness and true football skills, not track meet numbers.
What is the draft going to do to help us, are you hoping that we get a diamond, like jr or dhb or maybe even better mcfaken, I guess that it doesn't matter who we pick in the draft, he's going to suck!
No love for the jersey means no wins and no personal accounting for means no long term commitment.
Let the bad times roll because they are not going to get any better in the next 5 to 10 years, there's a better chance that you will be in Pakistan and capture binladden than capture a good season from morrison or any of these clowns playing for us.
Now THAT's pessimism. Funny pessimism, though.
Take,
You wrote: I do not agree with those who want to run Al Davis out of the building. What I want is Al Davis to get the help he needs and deserves.
Come one that is fantasy land. That's like saying I don't want Cable run out of town, I just want him to be able to game plan effectively, call plays effectively, control his emotions and just for shits I wish he had super bowl coaching experience.
Al is 80, he is who he is. You wishing he was someone else is not going to make him someone else.
Stop straddling the fence. Grab a pitch fork or cover your eyes and pretend this isn't happening. You cannot have it both ways. Al has single handedly driven this team into the ground. He has to go.
Roy
Wow, I'm getting it from all sides these days.
Roy, I don't see anything wrong with holding out hope that Mr. Davis will finally hear the alarm bells and bring in a new regime of qualified individuals to obliterate the culture of losing and create a sensible rebuilding plan.
What are the odds? I've got to think that they are getting better with each disaster of a season. Surely, at some point, he'll tire of his own maniacal do-it-yourself act? I mean, he has to sit through these games, too. Surely he's going to run out of patience with himself?
Anyhow, that's my hope. I'd love to see a new final act from Al Davis. He's given us a lot, and that would be a cool way for him to ride off into the sunset, astride one more Lombardi Trophy, his finger in the eyes of the Haters. I would love that.
But yes, he needs qualified help, in a bad way.
Take,
He has been running the team the same way for 40 years. If you exclude the Gruden years, this team has either sucked or been mired in mediocrity since the late 80's. I repeat this is not only about the past 6 years. This is about Al and his management style. It sucks and he needs to go.
He is going to do it his way, that is the only way he knows. So you holding out hope for him to suddenly see the error of his ways and give up power borders on delusion.
Roy
Mosh, it's more like a rebuilding 1/4 CENTURY. Constant flux, turmoil without direction. Gibril Wilson had it right.....he said... "that there must be a direction, plunking guys here and there and hoping it works out, isn't a direction"..... The team will NEVER build a solid foundation and direction or retooling or rebuilding with the approach Alameda persues since, at least, the last 20 years.
It hit one perfect storm with Gruden.....other than that....retooling, rebuilding is a myth.
As far as the Chris Chamber thing....pretty obvious we could use some VETERAN presence at WR. It might give JR someone to trust? Worth a shot, why not? Murphy ? Lee? Schilens? Can't include Walker, who knows what is up with his deal...Seems to make too much sense to sign him, guess that's why Al didn't.
JONES
Roy, you are right, dead on. The only ray of sunshine about it is...Al has done it before, like you say, with Gruden. Could he do it again? How absurd does have to be? Maybe if Al fell out of his chair and banged his head on the desk...a point of clarity might come...you never know. But don't go to Vegas on that bet.
JONES
This quote posted by Jones blows me away:
"When asked if the Raiders might consider veteran Chris Chambers, released by San Diego, Cable said, “I don’t think so at this point with who we have.”
Who do we have, exactly? We have nobody. Is that Cable talking, or is that Al Davis pulling Cable's, well, cable?... because it sounds pretty uninformed to say the least.
Maybe he means Schilens, with 15 career completions and injured since pre-season, will be our savior for the next 8 games.
When will this clown show stop? I'm about ready to make a donation to the Raider petition website.
RT, i saw that site this morning before goin to work. i have to say it put a great big smile on my face all day.
come one come all, sign up and make your donations now. rail agsinst the Don of football the legend Al Davis. run him out of town!!! lamo.
this will be very entertaining to watch. the FUFAA Group. fed up fans against Al!!! buy in people and get what you so richly deserve....not a damn thing. bubkiss. nada. zip, zilch and a big fat zero!!!
he has faced much more worthy adversarry than this group. they have not a leg to stand on. funny stuff.
fkryraider
Donating might not make a difference, but I'll bet you that someone in the accounting department took note of the un-donation of the missing 22,000 fans during our last home blowout.
Anyhow, they are mainly asking for what you want: a GM.
It's just that instead of whispering it, lest their loyalty be questioned, they are shouting it from the rooftops. Neither of these approaches is my style, but to each their own.
The owner of the Browns sure took notice of a similarly organized fan protest. But we know the Raiders, they don't listen to anyone, and look at where it has gotten them!
Frky,
One thing we have on our side that Al does not is time. So we can patiently wait for Al to go peacefully (or not so peacefully) into that good night. In the meantime Al will trash what is left of his tarnished legacy. Good times for everyone...
Roy
Freak, you must be working right beside Al's nutsack....these fans get what they deserve? It sounds like Al himself...maybe he knows the fans have had enough of him so he is going to screw it all up to spite the fans...wouldn't put it past him.
Couldn't be this nuts if he tried, he must be "throwing the fight", no one could be this bad.
The fans get what they deserve....yup, in Freak's and Al's view, that means the fans deserve embarrassment, money stolen, no consideration...the list is long.
Freak is what is wrong with the Raiders, he is part of the fungus that rots it from it's core. Screw you Freak and screw Alameda.
JONES
Let's ratchet down the personal volume, please!
jones, don't like it? don't buy it. just like everything else in this world. you have the hammer!! the hammer of choice. the Raiders BELONG to Al, not you. just like any other bussiness. don't like it, start your own ballclub and run it YOUR way. lmao. yeah thats right, get what you deserve, nothing, you ambivilent little pest.
frkyraider
I ain't buying it..in the long run, Al will get what he deserves, broke and teamless. What's he going to do when there are 10,000 people? Move? Who would take him? He's only hurting himself, I can go on with my life...he has to live with it, day in and day out....everyday that goes by, more and more people AIN'T BUYING IT. You and a handful will be the only suckers left.....good luck with that, Freak.
JONES
The conversation in the blog is getting weird.
But I did want to add that I signed the petition on messagetoal.com. I did not donate as I will not donate $$ unless I know 100% where my money is going. However, I am un-donating as I am not buying tickets to a Raider game during my annual trip to the Bay Area.
What could change my mind?
If Al Davis steps up and admits that for the past 6 1/2 seasons the Raiders have failed to put together a competitive team. Apologize to the fans and announce that he will make it right by hiring a credible and proven GM and HC. That he will turn over football operations to a capable staff. Then and only then will I purchase tickets to a game.
When pigs fly!
I won't be going to a game this year.
JF
Yeah, we're sort of turning into Lord of The Flies here. But you know what, it's more interesting and less expensive than watching the Raiders "lose focus" and mail it in for the remaining 50 minutes while removing $100 from your pocket.
JF-
Here's wierd
Shanahan...
Can coach, has scheme, can evaluate personnel and knows the division.
Gary and Frkyraider just go away. You idiots remind me of that Suckass John Herrera.
You know, I always *have* thought that wishing for someone to die and get out of the way was a particularly classy move.
Especially when it was over entertainment.
Get out of the basement and off the computer, folks, and interact with *real* people. Enjoy what's outside and quit dwelling on things that are less important than real life.
Once you do that, you'll realize that wishing an *entertainment* personality dead so as to improve your level of *entertainment* is a particularly obscene move.
JMHSO
---Jeff
Why does he deserve to be broke and teamless for f-ing up 7 years out of 50? Just seams kind of harsh.
Roy, "Pick up a pitch fork or cover your eyes"?? Lovely attitude, definately a villager.
Memdf, they hate each other and Sanarat would want the rest of his money first. Just not gonna happen. I'm holding onto the Chucky/Lombardi reunion pipe dream.
-moshbucket
FOLKS, If you look closely at the clown car, you will find Frkymoron holding the horn and that jester Gary holding the umbrella. What a pair of FOOLS!!!
It is comical that some of the posters are perplexed or even upset by the venting of disgust.
H, Panty, and BlandaRocked are virtual ghosts.
Newsflash:
The team we love is losing over 75% of their games over a 104 game span. This year's team could very well go down as the worst offensive unit EVER!
Let that sink in and get back to me after we sunk $80M in guaranteed contracts to back to back to back top 7 draft choices.
It is also interesting that there seems to be a clear divide on what constitutes being a 'fan' or even better yet, a 'loyal fan'.
Enough of the credentials. I am a consumer of entertainment and a sports fan. I have been 'entertained' by the Raiders to different degrees over the years. For the past 7 years, the joy this franchise has brought me has been greatly diminished by the losing and utter dysfunction.
It is up to the individual to decide whether or not to rachet down (or up) their level of investment. It has nothing to do with a 'bandwagon'. Anyone that has followed a sports team just wants genuine hope that the team that they follow is doing everything possible to improve the product. The Raiders have not shown a good faith effort to restore many fans hope including mine.
We are looking at 7 Head Coaches in 9 years.
We are the only NFL team without a GM going on 3 years.
We are on the verge of setting a new NFL record of double digit loss seasons.
There is an entire Raider fan base (25 and under) who have no living memory of the great franchise we once were (past tense).
Every person with even a rudimentary knowledge of the game knows that Davis needs executive support but we are at the mercy of his whims.
What is seems to boil down to is whether or not Davis has a true awakening. Otherwise, what do you hang your hat on ... the 10 year 8-8 plan?
I am voicing my displeasure with my return on my investment and recalibrating my investment as I see fit. It is not a big deal.
I am venting my disappointment with an organization that fails to see the obvious ... that you need a functional football structure lead by an owner, a GM, and competent head coach working in partnership to improve the product on the field.
This train will just keep running because, IMO, Davis could never live with the notion that someone else pulled the Raiders out of this disaster when he couldn't. Therefore, he will almost certainly keep trying until... well, the end.
I don't need another 1, 2, 3 or 7 years to see the nose in front of my face. Tendencies are very strong with Al Davis. His inability to adapt (even relent) is absolute.
CJ said, "We are the only NFL team without a GM going on 3 years."
Correction, Al Davis' understudy does not have a GM. His understudy? Jerry Jones of the Dallas Cowboys.
Monte Poole: "There's always something, always so many barriers to efficiency"
"All too often, the players don't have a clue about the decisions that affect the direction of the organization. They don't know. How much, then, can they care?"
"The players simply carry on, picking up paychecks while chained to the NFL's theater of the bizarre."
http://www.insidebayarea.com/raiders/ci_13715669
There's no way to overstate the dysfunction that exists in the Raiders' organization.
Shanahan-- no way, no how.
Both Cowher and Dungy are terrible TV commentators. Both need to return to coaching. No way either of them would end up in Oakland unless they were given full control.
Gruden-- The guy has the gift of gab. He could do MNF by himself. The job was made for him and if he is smart he'll stay in the booth.
Shottenheimer (please excuse the spelling)-- I think there is some bad blood between him and Davis. I remember reading that Shottenheimer hated the Raiders more than any other team. Not sure why.
I wonder if Belichick is getting bored with winning all the time in NE. Maybe he needs a challenge? Seems like there is a mutual respect bet him and AD.
Can't believe I'm talking about a coaching change. This would be how many coaches in how many years? I've lost count.
JF
Mosh;
You wrote: Why does he deserve to be broke and teamless for f-ing up 7 years out of 50? Just seams kind of harsh.
Seriously f-ing up seven years? He has ran this team into the ground for the past 20 years. Ever since the Super Bowl in 84, Al has saddled us with Jay Schroeder, Mark Wilson, James Jett, Willy Gualt, Art Shell (twice), Mike White, Marinovich, and the fastest player in every draft.
The loan bright spot was the Gruden years and he f*cked that up and cost us a Super Bowl. If Al could have just sat down and shut up we would have won the Super Bowl and then let Gruden walk. Honestly if we would have won that game these past 7 years would be cake and ice cream. But no Al had to get in a power struggle with the one coach who actually excelled.
This is not about the past 7 years, this is about the past 20 minus 3 good Gruden years. First it was mediocrity now it is just garbage.
Roy
One more thing. Calling the shot right now. Our big WR acquisition next year, Roy Williams!
Ladies and Gentleman your evil genius Al Davis!
Roy
al davis has become like dr. fraknestein.
he has built a horrible, beast. now he must destory the monster on his own, or the town folks will pick up our pitchforks, and chase al and his monster into a windmill.
oh, i forgot, we are carrying torch's as well.
good luck dr. alenstein.
Roy, you are full of crap, Gruden sucks, the team he won the super bowl with was not his own, he came in and picked up a team that was built by a guy that the raiders should look at, Tony Dungy, coach Dungy is a great coach and has true class.
Funny that gruden was run out of tampa and that team can't win a single game , gruden is a cancer, he is a little suck ass and a b&*^%h.
Tell me roy if gruden is so great how come he didn't get new blood for the Raiders! all the players that played for the raiders during his time had 10 years or more in the league.
Between Al and gruden, I much rader pick the earlier, he must be the dumbest owner in the league but at least he is not a suck ass as is your boyfriend gruden.
all these coaches everyone is dreamin about, dungy, gruden, cowher, ect...
they are not coming to oakland. these guys all command BIG $$$$$, and total control.
al aint payin and he aint lettin go.
al would rather throw the money at another washed up player.
the best we can hope for is al will change to the extent that he will hire the best DEFENSIVE coordinator available, for a change.
make a commitment to being a physical, tough, defense, and bring in a young offensive co to try and make something of the mess of #1 picks running around with no clue.
RaiderNate:
Yeah, Jerry Jones is Owner, President, and GM BUT ...
his son Stephen Jones is
Chief Operating Officer, Executive Vice President, Director of Player Personnel
"With 19 years of NFL experience, Stephen Jones has established himself as one of the brightest and most versatile young executives in professional sports."
Unlike Mark Davis who is only marginally involved with the Raiders, Stephen Jones has been immersed in the organization since his father purchased the Cowboys 19 years ago.
First of all - stop the bitching.
Second, I have no access to blogs at work, hence my late retort.
(There is a prominent blog that is critical of management so all blog access on the internet are blocked believe it or not)
I am fully aware of the circumstances surrounding AD vs. shanarat. I repeatedly see and hear the calls for chuckie but with no abdication of authority by AD nothing will ever change.
The Team of the Decades will be The Joke for Decades.
The rat would fit because he and AD seem kindred spirits as rats. AD regrets firing Shell the first time so maybe regrets exist in his world on his terms.
I really don't think this would actually reconcile, but think about the possibilities....
Make sure you read that Monte Poole article.
Dungy:
Advised Mike Vick to stay away from Oakland ... he's not coming.
Cowher:
Had a long run at one of the classiet, most functional, stable organizations in all of football ... he's not coming.
Gruden:
Has chosen to not air his dirty laundry about Oakland but ... he's not coming.
Throw out any single respectable, proven HC and there is a ZERO chance of him coming UNLESS the structure of the organization is radically changed. It would have to be a GM/HC pairing that know each other and have guarantees in their contract that gives them authority AND Davis would have to pay fair market value to acquire their services. These are very long odds.
It is back to the usual "diamond in the rough" candidate who is in his early 30's and hardly on anyone's radar
or
a down on his luck, retread candidate desperate for a chance to be HC again or (Fassell, Green) or for the 1st time in the NFL (Saunders, Hackett, Tollner, Gilbride etc)
or
another promotion from within to an unqualified but good soldier type Raider coach (I honestly can't think of anyone on our current staff who is remotely HC material unless you include Hackett and Tollner)
It is week 9 and we are already in the mode of talking about future Head Coach candidates and draft prospects ... very sad.
Hah! 200!
Got THAT one...
---Jeff
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