Monday, February 25, 2008

Time to Cut Ties with Kiffin?

By NY Raider:

It really hurts me to say this, but in light of recent reports that Lane Kiffin has been absentee from the Combine (or a ghost at best), and considering the blitzkrieg of negative media since the season ended, it may be best for the Raiders and Kiffin to part ways.

At the very least, the Raiders have a real problem with public relations, and have allowed negative perception to overwhelm their offseason. As you might guess, I am a firm believer in the old axiom that "perception is reality."

Of course, just because the media write something doesn’t mean I will perceive it to be true. In this case, I have spent the offseason thus far scouring media reports and listening to, and reading, fan (the consumer) reactions, as well as introspecting my own 30+ years experience as a diehard Raiders fan, and gauging my perception accordingly.

At this juncture, from a public relations standpoint, I must believe that the Raiders want people to perceive they are in turmoil. If so, then job well done. Yet, I can’t believe that this would benefit them in any way, particularly now with free agency and the 2008 NFL Draft quickly approaching.

Is Lane Kiffin so mad at the media or Al Davis that he can’t participate with his assistant coaches on the field during Combine workouts, or even walk through public areas of the facility?

While I was willing to believe the optimists after the Senior Bowl who claimed Kiffin didn’t wear Raiders’ gear because of sponsorship obligations, I refuse to believe that it has carried over to the Combine. Why isn’t he showing his colors?

There’s no valid reason to allow this charade to continue. We need a head coach who bleeds Silver and Black, and who believes that to wear any other colors would be like not dressing at all. We need a coach who is on board and available immediately to help make critical decisions for 2008 and beyond.

It’s quite possible that Lane Kiffin is a victim of misrepresented job authority, or that he has simply overstepped the boundaries of his job description.

As Jerry McDonald put it, “Kiffin is viewed as being stuck in an organization where Davis is essentially the owner, the general manager, the personnel director, the scouting department and the defacto defensive coordinator—all at age 78.”

I grew up admiring Mr. Davis. He is, in large part, the reason I became a Raiders fan. Far be it for me or anyone else to tell Mr. Davis that he can’t perform all those critical functions himself.

Many of us admired Kiffin for calling out the “whole building” after the final game in 2007, and we saw his ambition and believed him capable of returning the Raiders to greatness.

Unfortunately, his ambition wasn’t the greatness of the Raiders’ past, but the greatness that could be the Raiders’ future. That was his undoing.

Note: Thanks to NY Raider for sharing this take. This is the first in what promises to be a series of “guest takes,” with the intent of celebrating the different voices and perspectives of the Raider Nation.

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182 Comments:

Blogger Calico Jack said...

Excellent commentary NY Raider!

I would really encourage you to start you own blog. It is very easy to start blogging ... drop me a line if you need any help.
(chbraidernation1@sbcglobal.net)

We can always use another voice in the Raider Nation to provide insightful, interesting, and thought provoking commentary.

The current Raider situation is causing some serious angst amongst the fans. What it really boils down to are a few key factors:

#1 Does Kiffin have input into the draft and free agency or not? Has his HC authority been stripped beyond repair? If Kiffin is the HC without this input, it would be the ultimate neutering job performed by Davis.

#2 Is this a game of childish chicken between Kiffin and Davis to see who will blink first? In other words, is Davis making Kiffin's professional life so difficult that he will cry uncle and resign?

#3 Has the relationship between Kiffin and Davis been damaged to the point where it can no longer be a professional and productive environment?

In my view, having a "lame duck" HC is the worst possible scenario.

In simplest terms, Davis needs to either support Kiffin to the fullest in the best interst of the team OR cut bait immediately. To keep a lame duck coach around just makes the situation worse than it needs to be.

The current situation is a classic case of a rudderless franchise. The bad perception of the organization, the bad PR & media relations, the bad marketing of the team all is extremely detrimental to the team's success in 2008 and beyond.

My initial hope when things died down for a few weeks was that the storm had passed and Kiffin was going to be given a true opportunity in 2008 to move the team forward. In the back of my mind, I thought that the 2008 season would be used as a barometer to determine whether or not Kiffin would stay or go prior to 2009.

If Lofton ends up our HC in 2008, I would have a difficult time puting on my smiley, optimistic face.

If all of this is much ado about nothing and Kiffin/Davis are moving forward for 2008, it sure is an odd way of showing it. At the very least, this dysfunctional way of conducting business has had a detrimental effect on fan relations, player relations, the draft, and recruiting free agents. Not good.

9:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How can the head coach not be present at the combine? Is that possible, even for the Raiders?!? I would think if Kiffin wasn't to be seen the press would be quick to fan the flames. Maybe I'm just hoping this is not the case.
We've got the #4 pick. That means McFadden or C. Long or Dorsey Or Ellis or packaged picks in exchange for ours. Up until now it ment excitement for Raider Nation.
Who is going to tutor JaMarcus? Lofton?
All I can say at this point is WTF!
If a NFL franchise was purposely attempting to run itself a ground, it would be hard pressed to match the Raiders for they're recent ineptitude. It's like we've died a thousand deaths and still.... nothing.
In the end all a fan has (when his team suffering) is the off season and the promise of a brighter tomorrow. What do we have now?
M

11:35 PM  
Blogger JDAXC said...

I'm reading reports that Kiffin was/is there................

5:03 AM  
Blogger H said...

Has anyone thought that Kiffin may just not like the media. That he may enjoy being as reclusive as Al Davis.

Some people just want to do their jobs and be left alone, and not speculated about. He's still and extremely young head coach.

Now, on the other side of the coin, if he has copped an attitude and is demanding full controll after a 4-12 season instead of trying to pull together as a team, then he is wrong.

What is the truth. We shall see.

H

5:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nice take, NY.

I can't bring myself to put forth any effort supporting the Raiders right now. When the Raiders are in limbo, so am I.

Usually this time of year I record all the combine drills and study up on players. This year it does not even matter to me. Hell, if our HC can't even show up then why should I? Maybe Lofton was there so I could be wrong.

If Kiffin is not with us long-term I have to look at Al Davis and the Raiders differently from here on out. This is rediculous.

Psycho

6:31 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If anyone needs to go it's Al Davis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

7:11 AM  
Anonymous R2G said...

Nice take NY! H- Do you truly believe that all is fine in Raiders headquarters? Do you truly believe that this rampant dysfunction is an elaborate media campaign designed to bring us down from within? If indeed Kiff is gone by opening kickoff, are you going to view it as a substandard hiring without acknowledging who made the decision to bring him to the Raiders in the first place? If we still don't know with certainty who's responsible for our putrid record over the last 4 years, do you really expect any sort of truth anytime in the immediate future? What would be the obvious sign that the game has passed the Raiders brass by? These are not rhetorical questions as I respect your knowledge and would love some insight.

8:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ummmm.....the opinions expressed in your article are exactly what Davis is hoping for. He alone is responsible for this mess and you are falling into the trap as usual. How long are you going to let Davis play you like a puppet?!!

Besides, haven't you heard. Kiff isn't the only head coach not wearing team colors. He isn't the only one not talking either. Please do your research.

Davis is the problem. Kiff wanted to hire a promising defensive coach from TB. Can you imagine the Tampa 2 with the speed we have on defense? We have fast linebackers and fast defensive backs, which that defense is built on. Also, don't forget....2 of the top 3 teams last year in Defense employed the Tampa 2. But NO! Davis believes in man-to-man, so he blocked the move. HE IS THE PROBLEM! Not Kiffin!

8:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

FYI Kiffin has been at the combine since friday as confirmed by Jerry Mac, and if anyone actually watched the combine there were plenty of HC's that did not sport team logos just colors, Jerry Mac confirmed that Kiffin was wearing silver and black just not the emblem. Way to feed into the hysteria.I thought i was reading a take from Nancy Gay.

ekgraider

8:12 AM  
Blogger Darrel said...

NY Raider you and I go back to the mid 90's. We must resist the outside forces that love to see The Raider Nation in turmoil. I believe the NFL is trying to find something to shift attention away from the NE Cheatrirefs and their trouble. The peasents are at the gate and are ready to burn Raiderstien. Till I see the sky falling it's all Silver and Black to me. -Reb Raider

8:14 AM  
Anonymous memdf said...

Nice take NY-

I am with Psycho. My enthusiasmm for the combine and draft is nowhere near where it should be.

I also detect a recurrent theme in what we would like to see/hear and that is something difinitive from Alameda. But we are talking to ourselves.

Kiffin himself could help by a raised profile if it is his team on the coaching end anyway. He seemed to have no loss for words in the negative regarding team performance last year. But not even in the stands as one reports indicates...

SOB certainly has no problem drooling from the mouth with comments, (caveman indeed).

It seems more Davis vs. Kiffin than Davis vs. asst's or scouts or anyone else.

AD was silent during the shell II fiasco so maybe this is no big deal for him. I just think there is smoke here and you know the rest of the saying.....

8:17 AM  
Blogger Roy said...

Good analogy.

While my opinion might not be popular, I'll share it anyways. I think Kiff should stand his ground and force Davis's hand. If that means setting the team back for a few seasons, so be it. Davis does not seem concerned about the future of the Raiders...well maybe concerned, in a weird sort-of belittle your children in order to push them towards greatness sort of way, but concerned enough to realize that he is single handedly setting his franchise back a decade and is ensuring that no respectable coach will work for us until he dies.

So I say fuck it. Kiff should turn this into the soap opera Davis so badly wants, winning be damned. Don't forget we are talking about 3 million dollars here. We all know Davis does not want to fire him and be on the hook for that kind of money. Kiff needs to go George Castanza and keep showing up no matter what is dished out.

However, I think it would make for better TV if both would hold weekly dueling press conferences.

Al Davis has done what I could not previously do, remind me that football is a business and should not be taken so seriously. Instead of stressing and giving myself ulcers, I will happily play fantasy football and remain apathetic until that old bastard dies.

8:58 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Very good take, NYRaider. I found it well considered.

We seem to have a split between JMac and Jones. Jones has spoken to Ryan directly and seems to have come away with the feeling (at least the last one I read) that it may be much ado about nothing. On the other hand, JMac is conversing with the other coaches around the NFL, and they seem to believe all of the rumors and are split between Davis and Kiffin camps. Kiffin says "no comment" to JMac.

JMac gave the fashion report with his tongue firmly planted in his cheek, I felt.

As for Lofton, we know that Kiffin and Knapp interviewed Lofton, so saying that Kiffin was "unaware" of Lofton's hiring just seems absurd. Kiffin has also denied directly that he was unaware. So there is definitely some gaming to this story.

If Davis is waiting for Kiffin to resign, and Kiffin is waiting for Davis to fire him... I have trouble buying that at all. At this point, if Kiffin is as lame a duck as he's been described, he would only be doing damage to his own career by showing up at the combine completely emasculated. It would be better, at that point, for his own career to quit, saying publicly that there's no point to working under these circustances. He could also make a serious claim to a mediator that he was forced out, and could therefore claim his contract money. If things are as they are described by BSPN, and Kiffin says nothing while continuing to function as HC, then Kiffin is legally accepting those terms.

We are hearing very little coming from the Raiders themselves, but this would not be unheard of. There was a lot of activity over the past two off seasons, but we were changing coaching regimes. If we are not changing coaches this off season, it would would not be unusual to hear almost nothing from the Raiders until the draft, with the exception of periodic free agent signings.

We know that at USC, Kiffin's job was not to deal with the press. We also know that he doesn't seem to appreciate the press scrutiny that he's getting as HC of the Raiders. And we are at the point where, if the Raiders don't squelch some of these stories, reporters will continue to invent (or anonymous sources will continue to invent).

For right now, I'm listening to Ryan, who seems to say that some of the stories have truth, but not the significance placed on them. I don't believe that Kiffin would present himself at the combine with no authority, even if he determined to just avoid the press.

If the story actually leans in the direction that the press is painting, then Davis has seriously shot himself in the foot, and I would be ready to believe two things. One, that Davis needs some serious help in running the team, and two, that Kiffin has no business as the Raiders' HC.

If the story shows itself to be completely without merrit, I will say that Kiffin needs to get a better handle on dealing with the press as an HC in the NFL.

9:10 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

The part of the story that makes the least amount of sense.

Kiffin has been seen at the combine in off hours having a good time. He's been seen interviewing rookies and attending personnel meetings. At the same time, many in the press expect that he'll be gone by the end of April. He doesn't appear to be under any particular stress, and when asked about the stories, he simply says he has no comment.

What's wrong with that picture? Kiffin is a first time HC at any level. He has his whole career ahead of him. If he allows himself to be quietly disappeared, I can't think of anything more damaging to his future career. If he had been stripped of all of his authority, and he expected to be gone before the draft, he would be spending his time lobbying for future employment. He would be spending his time getting out his side of the story to maintain an authoritative image. And if Kiffin were doing either of those things, in the current enviornment, we would absolutely have heard about it.

The reason that this makes no sense is that on the one hand we're told that Kiffin is the type who will march into Davis' office and tell him how to run his team. On the other hand, when Kiffin is completely emasculated by Davis, he will quietly go about the business of maintaining Davis' illusion, for Davis' benefit.

No. That doesn't work for me.

9:52 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

The rumors that the Raiders are shopping Huff.

If so, what are the Raiders looking for in return? It is true that they've invested too much in DBs over the past seven years or so. I could see Washington regaining his starting CB spot, moving Routt to FS, and moving Schweigert over to SS where he's better suited. I think it also probable that drafting a SS or signing a free agent SS might be easier than finding a FS. In exchange for Huff, the Raiders might get a WR, a higher draft pick (packaging Huff with their 2nd round pick to move up to the middle of the 1st round), or acquire a solid D-lineman.

But remember last off season when the Raiders offered their entire defense. They essentially did it as bait, just to see what offers might develope. The same could be true of shopping Huff. Or, perhaps the Raiders want to move up to assure acquiring SOH.

There seems to be some traction to a prediction that I made last week. That Jerry Jones would trade Dallas' two 1st round picks to Miami for the #1 overall in an effort to get McFadden.

10:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
Great job, NY.
It should be clear to all but a few that we have reached the absolute apex of awful. The dysfunctional operation called the Oakland RAiders has reached a point of being not only embarrassing, but untenable. Just watching all of our decisions of late is further evidence that one man controls everything. I mean really, we make no move to change our defense even though it's obvious the existing situation is not working. Our HC, right or wrong, obviously wanted to go in a new direction and was rebuffed.
How do you turn a floundering franchise around if the "new blood" (Kiffin) is not allowed to try to change anything?
And I don't want anyone to be out of work but why was Williams a priority to re-sign? What was the rush at all on that?
And why did Namdi get the tag he got? I read that with tag we gave him, once A Samuel signs we'll be on the hook for way more money that we needed to be.
And why the rush on Fargas? How popular do y'all think he would have really ben on the open market... considering his entire career?

10:30 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Bama7, in answer to your questions...

First off, we don't know what Kiffin wanted or didn't want at the end of the season. Ryan said their was discussion about the defense, and there was a dispute about the scheme. We don't have any idea what decisions were made, and we won't until camp. And Kiffin has already made a bunch of changes, and we don't know that further changes have been rebuffed.

Williams wasn't a "priority." He was just easy. He has received praise from both Kiffin and Ryan, but they both seem to view him as a reliable back up player. Low and behold, they signed him for back up money.

Why did Nnamdi get the exclusive tag, as all but one of the NFL's tagged players received? Because lately the non-exclusive tag has been gamed by the system so it has become the fast track way of losing a player. Yes, if Nnamdi signed with someone else under the non-exclusive tag, they'd owe us 2 first round picks. But those 2 first round picks could be top five or #32 (the equivalent of 2 2nd round picks). Nnamdi is the home grown BEST player on the team. It not only is a good idea to keep him for his skill, it's a good idea to keep him for what he brings to team moral. I also believe that Nnamdi was well informed that the tag would be used if negotiations for a long term contract were not complete before hand, and that a long term contract will be in place before camp begins.

As for Fargas, we got him cheap - and easy. He wanted to be here, Kiffin is a big fan, and Fargas didn't attempt to break the bank, asking for reasonable money. I think Fargas' signing is all on Kiffin, not Davis. I believe that Davis would be more likely to let him go and pursue McFadden.

I fully expected the resigning of both Williams and Fargas. I also expected to see the tag placed on Nnamdi from the very end of the season. There's nothing unusual about any of these decisions, nor should they be a surprise to anyone.

11:04 AM  
Blogger GeneY63 said...

Hi Raider Nation, I think Kiffin is doing what he expects his players to be doing in the face of adversity -- shutting up and playing/coaching. He may not be happy about his situation, but he is not belly aching to the media. If Kiffin shows that he is still dedicated to winning as the Raider HC, this will go a long way to mending the fence with AD and will show players that he not only talks the talk, he walks the walk. I'm hoping that this is the path he is taking because it would show the character that the Raider Nation can rally around. If you don't like the way you are being treated, buck up and kick but and show why you deserve respect. If Kif just folds up the tent, then we will know he does not have the intestinal fortitude to be a Raider anyway. Bleeding Silver and Black!

11:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
Blanda, as usual I disagree with you. No one would have given up two rd 1's for Namdi. No one. So now we pay out the a#@.
No one knows how good any of our players really are because we're a train wreck. End result is, once Samuels signs, a good portion of our entire cap will go to a CB... but you and Al don't seem to get that CB's don't make great defenses anymore. Schemes and the front 7 do. Yet will go into another year trying to relive the Mike Haynes, Lester Hayes, Willie Brown days.
As for Williams, why not look at another LB, even as a back-up?
Note that the Chargers just signed the highly productive Derek Smith. Score yet another for AJ... meanwhile cue sonny & cher tune for us in regards to our scholarship saga... and the beat goes on...
To you Blanda it's just a second stringer (maybe, check DC Al first, cuz he'll probably get every opp to start again) to me it's a big deal becuase Williams doesn't help in any way. Cut bait for crying out loud. Should look at someone else. Like, say Derek Smith. The guy's had over 100 tackles in 5 different seasons. AJ gets it AD doesn't.

12:50 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Bama7, to listen to you means that every player the Raiders sign to start must be a certifiable hall of famer, and every back up must be a certifiable starter. Otherwise, Al just doesn't get it.

When you come up with some thoughts that are actually realistic, I'll discuss them.

1:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rick said
Would you go to the combine if you were told you had no more input in the draft or any personell matters? I'd be ashamed to talk to other coaches or GMs if I had been stipped down like that. Nothing will change as long as Al is alive.I won't buy any Raider gear or go to any games till it's over. And who in their right mind would take the job if Al does get rid of him? When Al finally drives him out people will finally quit going to the games. Enough is enough.

1:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
Blanda, I feel the same way. When you finally understand that we won't win with unproductive players I'll discuss things further with you. You always put a positive spin on every lame thing we do. It gets old.

1:59 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Much better to put a negative spin on everything we do, right Bama?

2:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

BlandaRocked is a freakin idiot and gives Raider fans a bad name. he is an enabler!

2:10 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Kiffin is a the combine, just avoiding media. Good for him too. He has been seen on the field at the combine during the "trials" of the players. When approached by the media, he quickly offers a "No comment" statement.
What does this mean? Does this mean he and AD are in turmoil? If so, on what basis (because the media says so is not a valid reason, btw)? Does this mean he is on "thin ice"? If so, on what basis (again, because the media says so is not a valid reason)?
No, what this means, is Kiffin isn't there to talk to the media, he's there to evaluate players and do a job. The offer of a "No comment" statement, simply means he doesn't have anything to say to the media, who will more than likely report bits, pieces, and their imagination regardless of what he says (see the reporting of the Arkansas rumors. No matter how many times he denied it, they always linked him back to it).
I do agree with the wishes that he would at least address these "sky is falling" and "turmoil" rumors to put the minds of the fan base at ease.

2:19 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

GeneY63:

Exultant point Bro....

For "CRYING-OUT-LOUD" what the hell is wrong with some of you....is your memory really that short...for a few seasons the complaint was all the "TrashTalkin" that was coming out of the "RaiderCamp" -n- the "Mole" who was leaking it....And now look....da Mole is gone to "MuleHigh" and the the mouths are shut again and all you can do is "Cry-Cry-Cry" and listen to the same "Mediot"s who were shitten down your throats during the "Leakage"....

Listen....Do you hear that....NO...You hear nothing at all and that's just how it should be around the "RaiderCamp"....Not even Portster is talking....there is NoMoss with his mouthiness "Waggin in da Air"....Just peaceful Silence....and until the Silence is broken by the insiders of the "RaiderCamp" I for one am NOT going to listen....

I am NOT going to let a bunch of "CRY"ers and "Mediot"s ruin my hopes and joy as a "RaiderFan"....

NOT a single player has added to the "Crap"....NOT a single Coach....NO-one in the front office....Not a trainer....NOT even the "WaterBoy" is talking....Now that speaks to "Control" -n- "Togetherness"....NOT "DisFunction" -n- "Abandonment"....

PantyRaider....Fan-Til-Death!!!!

2:23 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

BlandaRocked is a class act and a faithful brother and I certainly can't and wont say the same about the "Punk" who take a childish shot at him....

PantyRaider....Proud to stand by my Brothers.....

2:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blanda..Just wanted to ask why you stopped writing your blog last september?You obviously still have plenty opinions to give,and i for one have missed it even if not everyone will agree(hey Bama7)sometimes you are a voice of reason amongst the crowd.
i too sometimes get accused of being too positive about stuff that happens,but,as we all know,as a RAIDERFAN sometimes thats all we've got .
Kigleigh....

2:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Panty...Well put man,brothers IS what we are supposed to be,too much sniping and bitching for me.
We're all supposed to be in it together,but i don't doubt that Blanda takes the flak with a pinch of salt,huh?
Been there,seen that etc..
Kigleigh..

3:03 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Kigleigh:

Keeping up a blog is a little more than I have time for. That sounds odd in terms of how much I write on this blog, but it's easier to respond to things being discussed than it is come up with ideas about what to write and then to research them. Generally I'm just better when I can shoot from the hip. That doesn't mean that I won't post on my blog anymore, and I have a couple of ideas, but it will have to be when work slows down sufficiently to focus on it.

As for people who shout names while posting anonymously, I kind of give them a bit less respect than I give to Nancy Gay or Timmy Kawakami. At least those two sign their names to something.

3:08 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

A couple of thoughts on Kiffin/Davis.

Basically the combine has only renewed the discussion from where it left off after the Senior Bowl. Nothing has been added to give any credence to the rumors begun by BSPN. In fact Schefter has back tracked a bit from the story, saying that it has basically just calmed down, and Kiffin's job appears to be safe.

JMac has discussed the issue a good deal and reports that those on the Raiders' staff pretty much say that if there was something significant, it has been very quiet over the last few weeks. He also tells us that many of the staff members of other teams, and members of the media buy into the story, and they divide themselves between pro-Davis and pro-Kiffin camps.

As I see it, there is no portion of the story that measures with elements that we know. In order to believe the stories, you have to believe that Kiffin is a dynamic man among men, who at the very next moment can turn into the king of wimps. You have to believe that all of Davis' screws are coming loose all at once. You have to believe that while trying to rebuild his franchise, he's willing to have a head coach without even giving said HC even enough authority to give direction to his players. Based on things they've written in the past, I'd believe that Gay and Kawakami see the sense in it.

But there has been nothing new to advance the story other than what has been presented as being overheard at the combine. We continue to see Kiffin going about all of the business that an HC goes through in the off season, without disruption. Things seem to be progressing normally while we approach the free agent signing season.

Com'on, ask yourself, with as much "dysfunction" as is being discussed, do you honestly expect that it would be as quiet inside Raiders HQ as it apparently is? In other words, if there is all of this dysfunction on the inside, why is all of the noise on the outside?

3:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blanda..Thanks for responding to my question,much appreciated mate.
I'll keep your blog on my 'to read' list for a while longer then,:)
In referrance to the other comment,is it really possible to respect someone LESS than Nancy Gay??Well,you learn something every day don't you?
Kigleigh..

4:23 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

I'm not convinced that Kiffin is going about "all of the business" of a typical head coach in the offseason.

This is from Jason Jones at the Sac Bee, reporting from the combine:

"The Lane Kiffin vs. Al Davis situation needs to be completely resolved. Multiple team executives remarked of how Kiffin has no role in free agency. Kiffin is involved interviewing and scouting players for the draft. Regardless, this is no way to run a team."

This isn't random BSPN speculation. It's a local beat writer reporting information he received directly team executives (that's plural, not just one person).

Either these executives (1) are lying to spread malicious rumors to undermine their own employer/organization, which would be dysfunctional or (2) it's true that Kiffin has no role in free agency, which would also be dysfunctional.

4:27 PM  
Anonymous memdf said...

anonymous-

RE: Blandarocked

You are the freakin idiot with obviously not too much insight as to what goes on here at Raider Take.

Many of us may disagree with each other but the discussion here is heated and passionate and never at the level of a 10th grader like your last post.

Come back when when you can "enable" intelligent discussion.

4:27 PM  
Anonymous Gary said...

>>>>
I'll discuss things further with you. You always put a positive spin on every lame thing we do. It gets old.
>>>>>


LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!! Holy belly laugh!!!

Too funny. DAMN YOU BLANDA... WHAT KIND OF FAN WOULD PUT POSITIVE SPIN ON A TEAM THEY ROOT FOR!!!

HILARIOUS!!!! The Al-haters to a tee.

Embarrassing, but hilarious.

4:35 PM  
Anonymous Gary said...

Why is anyone surprised that Kiffin is a reclusive from the media as Al is?

They are twins.

And what kind of moron would think that Al wouldn't have ALREADY fired Kiffin's ass the second he was sick of him? What part of his 40 year history tells us he'd keep a coach around that he doesn't want to keep? Or a player? Or a water boy?

Jesus the Al-haters wear me out...

4:40 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Take, that's partially my point. It's people on the outside who are talking about how things appear on the inside. How can executives for other teams know how much input Kiffin has in free agency discussions? All they know is who's been answering the phone calls, or who has been making them, while at the same time Kiffin is going about the business in front of him at the combine (i.e., interviewing the potential draftees, and conducting team meetings). All the executives at other teams can do is relate whether they are talking to Kiffin directly, and what he says. That is, unless they can report that they have been instructed not to talk to Kiffin because he has no authority - and we specifically haven't heard them say that.

And think about it. As big as this story would be if it were true, can you imagine hearing nothing about it coming from any of the sources. Even Shell, who is widely regarded as Davis' biggest "yes" man, blew up in a press conference during the season on an internally perceived slight.

I will grant you that perceptions carry weight. And for this reason, these issues are eventually going to have to be addressed (either by Kiffin or Davis, but preferably both). But if events are as dire as reported, I have to believe that we would be hearing more from the principals than we have.

One of the things I keep reading lately are statements that Kiffin and Davis are remarkably similar in their approach to things (one of the few bits of information actually reported from the inside). But if any of the current stories are true, I find it truely remarkable that things at Raiders HQ are so quiet.

4:47 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

InsideNoise:

NYRaider....you really know how to "Stir da Pot" Bro....A good take is one that stirs the emotions and brings everyone to the table at once and you certainly did that...Whether we agree or disagree with your comments is not as important as the flurry of emotions that you were able to cause to erupt.....Good Job!!!!

Yesterday Psycho and I and others exchanged a little "Vocal Fisticuffs" on the subject but I was just too proud wearing my band new $4 Russel Jersey from K-Mart to let it bother me....

We all have different things that we use to guide our lives and those are personal things, from which I rarely quote but frequently remember....but just a comment on how I deal with....

InsideNoise....by "AnnoAss"

It was written...."out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks"...."You shall know them by their fruits"...."Mark him not even eating or drinking with such a one"...."Separate yourselves from them so as not to share in their plagues"....

In seasons past I waisted my good time "Duking" it out with an offensive stench of gas-terd-ly exhaust vomited up from the depths of darkness deep within the rotting intestinal track connected to one's "AnnoAss"...."Just a Fart"....

Until it became clear to me that it has only one purpose in existence....To Infiltrate and Undermine Raider Loyalties and Devour Raider Love....I also perceived that this "AnnoAss" may very well be existing in several different forms and appearing (Posting) as such.....And it further came to me that this "AnnoAss" may in reality be connected to a "Mediot"s dead and rotting carcass lying waisted in the "Valley-o-Rot"....

But it's amazing the freedom I experience once I identified the source of the stench and kept my distance so as not to become sickened by it's putrid decaying "Crap"....As in....Why would I give myself to reading anything "IT" has to say when I know "It's".....

PantyRaider....CleanAirAct!!!!

4:53 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Gary makes a very valid point as well. Think back to your Raiders/Davis controversies of old. When is it ever this quiet at Raiders HQ when their is a big controversy? When has Davis ever refused to fire someone that he doesn't want around? If you believe that Kiffin's contract is preventing Davis from firing Kiffin, you've simply never paid attention to anything that Davis does. Callahan's contract didn't prevent Davis from firing Callahan, nor Turner's, nor Shell's. But there's suddenly a roadblock as far as Kiffin is concerned? What's the impediment? Blackmail? It just doesn't make sense.

5:00 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Update:
Efforts to restructure Fitzgerald's contract have hit a snag, the Arizona Republic reports.

Recommendation:
Fitzgerald is under contract through 2009 for a total of $32 million, a figure that the Cardinals are finding unmanageable because of the salary cap. Arizona wants to give Fitzgerald a longer deal with a lower annual cost. This week, the Cardinals reportedly offered Fitzgerald a deal that would make him the NFL's highest-paid receiver, but he turned it down. Fitzgerald has most of the leverage in this situation. Unfortunately for the Cardinals, that could hurt their chances of signing key free agents.

PantyRaider..TradeBait..#4 Down #16...(+)

5:06 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Panty, I guess the logical question would be, if Fitzgerald won't restructure, can ANYONE afford him?

5:10 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

BlandaRocked:

I think he wants to push a trade...He may be willing to restructure with a new team...He has been offered a contract to make him the highest paid "WR" in the NFL but declines it saying he wants all that guaranteed cash....

For the Raiders we have room to afford him at his contract...Half of what he makes is from Portster...Half is from trading down from #4 to #16 in draft savings for the next 2 seasons....And also the contract of a player who we would trade to AZ....like Jordan or Walter who is from ASU and a good back-up to the "lefty"....

PantyRaider....TradeTradeTrade!!!!

5:23 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Quote:
The Broncos are in aggressive discussions to trade for Detroit Lions defensive tackle Shaun Rogers.
If no hitches develop, the trade is expected to be done as early as tonight or early Tuesday.

Come on Raiders.....Get busy....

5:30 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

Blandarocked, & Gary,

why do you consider it negative spin by bama7 for saying we suck ?

and why should it be "valid opinion", when you guys claim everything is ok ?

don't you guys follow the team, and watch the games ?

everything is not ok, and the kiffin situation, to say the least, is very odd.

anyway, great job by Nyraider.

5:36 PM  
Blogger Eric said...

I am a free-agent Raider fan, I just got a cut and I finally bleed red again. Go Raiders, no, Go AFC West. Ryan for head coach, Kiffin can get the kicking tee, or go work for his dad in Tampa Bay. Anyone want some jerseys,
Love,
Incog-Neato!

6:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kiff is concentrating on the draft. It was clear when hired that Kiff's familiarity with the next few draft classes would be exploited to it's fullest.

It's more important to get the draft right than to sign a FA quickly.

I would rather build the core of my team through the draft, then fill in what you couldn't draft w/ FA.

Obvsiously there can be exceptions to the rule.

6:42 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

First and foremost, I want to thank Raider Take for allowing me to rant on the front page of his blog. It was truly a pleasure. As PantyRaider said, I really stirred da pot.

And, of course, I also want to thank all of you for your responses, agreeable or not.

I just have a bad feeling about what might be happening this off-season in Alameda.

Consider this, for Kiffin to have been so communicative with the media during the season (after practices and games), to now suddenly develop a severe aversion to the media seems odd at best, and certainly larger than a few unflattering or bogus media stories could achieve.

I guess in my rationalization of the unknown, I have come to realize that Al Davis is “the man” (like I didn’t know), and if he can’t get along with our HC, than maybe the Raiders would be better served to promote the “yes" team of Ryan, Martindale et al to our lead coaching staff. At least that way we can be sure everyone is on the same page. Believe me, it’s not my first choice!

Think of it this way, maybe the “yes" team is better than the “do-we-cheat-em-and-how" team in New England... that is, in terms of integrity.

7:11 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

rt said, "The Lane Kiffin vs. Al Davis situation needs to be completely resolved. Multiple team executives remarked of how Kiffin has no role in free agency. Kiffin is involved interviewing and scouting players for the draft. Regardless, this is no way to run a team."
Let's not forget the #1 rule of reporting RUMORS! The first rule of a RUMOR is you DO NOT NAME SOURCES! This is why the "code" exists that you don't name your sources, but as we saw, when it comes to legal matters that could send the journalist to jail, they will always give their sources.
"Multiple team executives" are not names. It is still a rumor. How many times does Kiffin, the coaches, and the Raiders make a statement of, "yes there were disagreements, but nothing major?"
It's all part of the "mystique" and a game that Davis plays every year.

7:20 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Thanks and kudos to NY Raider for sharing this take. It was an original and cogent viewpoint that really got me thinking. Can't ask for more from a TAKE.

Raider Take...Thinkinoutloud

7:22 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

RaiderNate, those were the words of Jason Jones of the Sac Bee. I took his term "multiple team executives" to mean multiple Raiders executives (I guess he could have meant NFL executives, not just Raiders execs, but that's not how I read it).

I brought it up with regards to the topic of dysfunction, specifically with regard to those who say dysfunction isn't an issue with the organization.

Is it not dysfunctional to have so many rats on the ship, continuing to spread harmful rumors from within (if that's indeed all they are are)?

Would your workplace foster and tolerate this type of behavior? Only if it were dysfunctional and divided.

The only other explanation is that Jason Jones and Jerry MacDonald are literally lying when they are saying they're getting this stuff from people inside the organization.

Even if they're just inaccurate rumors, why are they being so persistently propagated from the inside?

7:47 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

RT:

I don't see that any of this comes from the inside...least not inside the RaiderCamp....It's all from outsider's and why would you of all people ask "Why does it continue"....How many times have you seen the "Mediot"s continue to publish lies when they know it's crap....

Not even Sapp has made a statement...Portster is quiet...but they still have access to the Alameda facility and work-out during the off-season...They would see Kiff-n-SOB-n-MrD....but NOT a word....does that sound like "Dysfunction" to you....

"Dysfunction was when we had NoMoss and Portster and da "Mole" leaking out crap daily....

Rebuilding....

I would go after Quality FA's first and than draft what I could not fill threw that process...and than watch the wire for "CastOff"s that could up-grade the team...

FA RaiderTrader.....GoodBy....Ya won't be missed....

Defectors and Deserters are "KeelHaled" and "Hung From da Yards"....Well...at least you were honest enough to identify yourself....that's more than I see from the other "HateTrippers"....

PantyRaider....Still-a-Believer!!!!

10:29 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Kudos to NY Raider for "StirrinDaPot...CajunStyle...
nice and spicy!"

I hate to be Captain Obvious but ... when your team's local beat writers (Mac & JJ) who seem to be credible by most reasonable standards are saying in effect that Kiffin (a) might not last past April (b) has been stripped of authority (c) and is a possible "lame duck" HC shouldn't a huge 1000 WATT light bulb go on in Alameda?

The crux of this dilemma is:

If Kiffin is the Raiders HC then:

How about a little PUBLIC support? Would it kill Al to give his HC an endorsement? How about a definitive and declarative statement from Davis? How about putting these rumors to bed once and for all with a joint press conference (Davis/Kiffin)? Isn't that the most basic, constructive, effective line of communication? My gosh, how hard would it be for Kiffin and Davis to hold a brief 5 minute press conference? That would be a golden opportunity to rejack the Raider Nation for 2008!

If Kiffin has been completely neutered and/or is on the way out, how about cutting bait immediately and moving forward?

Can you possible imagine a worst scenario than Kiffin being shown the door in April? Congratulations Mr. James Lofton! You are now the "man in charge". Yikes!

Frankly I'm getting sick and tired of all the excuse being thrown out for the way the Raiders have handled the rumors, bad press, and uncertainty. Name another franchise whose HC is not firmly in charge for 2008. Name another HC whose name gets mentioned in so many BS rumors. Alameda's silence on this matter is deafening. It shows a lack of support. It is a lack of leadership, piss poor media/fan relations, and utter dysfunction.

All any loyal Raider fan wants to know is that we have someone firmly in charge to lead the 53 men in uniform. Hello.

To the "Peaches & Cream" Raider contingent who insist that everything is "a-ok, please take a step back and look at it from a sound logical point of view.

(1) This has harmed our fan relations. Our loyal customer base are questioning whether or not to renew their season tickets due largely to the instability and dysfunction of the organization.

(2) This has harmed our player relations. If you don't think players like Russell would be affected by this situation then you are delusional.

(3) This has harmed our ability to grow our fan base. Besides playing crappy football for the past 5 years, don't you think young fans who are on the fence might pause before dedicating themselves to the Raiders?

(4) This has harmed our media relations. Yeah, just maybe if we made a decent effort to communicate on a more regular basis with beat writers such as Mac/Jones, we could effectively squash negative stories/rumors.

(5) This has harmed our ability to attract top notch coaches for the future. What high profile HC, DC, OC would think about joining this mess?

(6) If Kiffin remains, it gives him an even bigger hill to climb because he either lacks the authority and/or is seen as a "lame duck" coach.

It isn't F'N rocket science. Communicate directly and honestly with your customers and give 100% to improving your product and you would be amazed at how things could turn around in a positive direction.

G'Night gents. Man that felt good!

10:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well put Calico Jack! I just read through all the posts and am just completely amazed at all these folks that blindly follow the senility that is Al Davis. I respect you guys as fans and I'm all for brotherhood, but to gang up on those of us that actually see the situation for what it is, isn't very brother-like either.

I have to admit. I was a blind supporter up until last year. But this is it. I've had it. The Raiders have called me to renew my season tickets, but I'M NOT INTERESTED! Call me when the old man steps down!

12:11 AM  
Anonymous Arkansan Raider said...

Hey Scorpio (aka Anon 12:11), I thought you were leaving.

Lyin' sack.

---Jeff

1:06 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

RT said, "The only other explanation is that Jason Jones and Jerry MacDonald are literally lying when they are saying they're getting this stuff from people inside the organization.

Even if they're just inaccurate rumors, why are they being so persistently propagated from the inside?"

They are reporters, they can't report, "Nothing coming out of the Raider Nation. Not even a whisper. Nobody knows the in's and out's of who they are looking at, what changes are to be made, nothing." In the words of Jim Rome, "My first job on the radio was reporting traffic in Santa Barbara for $5/hour. Are you kidding? There was never an accident there. My boss kept yelling at me that he hired me to do traffic, not report nothing. So I would always report that there was an accident on whatever street, and that it was in the clearing stages. Then when someone would call me on it, I'd say, 'That's why I said it was in the clearing stages.'
Reporters do report lying because it's interesting, and more interesting than reporting, "Nothing going on over here."
Like NYRaiders' take (which btw, great job NY), a reporter's job is to stir the pot and make it interesting.
Someone asked why he doesn't talk more to the media than he did after every game during the season? Because he is required to do a press conference after a game during the season.

4:16 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

cj, i'm not saying "all is well with the nation". i'm saying that yes there is some dysfunction going on that nobody knows about. but it is not as bad as being reported. and from a third party from inside the raiders (rob ryan), he has even said as much. why not believe them?
listen, i have a rule of thumb. ever since peter gammons reporting rumors that the yankees and cubs were in discussion of trading for sammy sosa back in 2001. he kept insisting that it was going to happen, while both teams ademently denied the rumor, but confirmed they were talking a trade for another player. in the end, yankees picked up a relief pitcher. peter gammons became the biggest idiot in sports reporting.
i tend to take the word of an organization, not the media, who yes, is paid to over exaggerate.
Is the sky falling? NO! But it is raining.

4:23 AM  
Blogger H said...

Sorry, just catching up. Too much to read through so I may be repeating some things already said by others. Spent part of the day yesterday flying around Atlanta with the beautiful Mrs. H in an open cockpit biplane. Phenomenal, I highly recommend it wherever you might live.

First off, Kiffin WAS at the combine. He may be keeping a low profile because he doesn’t like the press, and I don’t blame him. Once the first vulture lands or the first hyena reaches the carcass the rest continue to descend and pick away until there’s no meat left on your bones.

We have griped and complained about not letting assistant coaches talk. Ryan has talked twice and we are complaining about that.

Asomugha has been exclusive tagged and we are complaining. Virtually all top free agents were franchised, and virtually all of those were exclusive. Haynesworth being one of the very few exceptions, but I don’t see anyone willing to give up two first round picks for him considering he has missed some games due to injury lately.

It is rumored Kiffin has no input in free agency. The key word is “rumored”. It was also rumored he was going to Arkansas and UCLA, and it was rumored Ryan was going to be fired. It was also rumored he was unaware of the Lofton hire when he and Knapp conducted one of the interviews.

As for free agency and the draft, these should be split responsibilities as far as evaluation goes. Were I the head coach, or owner for that matter, I would recognize that some people have stronger knowledge in certain areas. Kiffin is stronger in the college arena and Knapp/Cable and others are stronger in the pro arena. It makes sense to split responsibilities at first then come together with recommendations and rebuttal (including Kiffin) make decisions and move on from there. It’s actually the way most companies operate.

People are complaining about Fargas being signed. Your best offensive player, signed to a cap friendly contract and all you here from some is how stupid it was, when the head coach they like publicly stated he wanted him back. Williams was signed to basically a league minimum, non guaranteed contract that invokes complaints. Williams was not a priority signing, it was an easy singing so they got it out of the way. Fargas probably could have gotten more money elsewhere, so he showed some loyalty.

Now, some of the people who complain mightily about Al picks that don’t fill a need, want the Raiders to take McFadden, which would be a classic Al pick. Please make up our minds.

Now, Psycho, say it ain’t so. You got to hang around. I need my drinking partner.

As for all the disagreeing going on, as Rob Ryan says, “That’s life in the big city.”

H

6:30 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Jerry Mac said, "Had a nice chat with Lane Kiffin at the Hyatt Saturday before he decided he wouldn’t speak on the record regarding all things Raider...."

Sure would like to know what they talked about. Sounds like Jerry knows exactly what's on Kiff's mind. Can't he even give us a hint?

7:05 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Nate (and PantyRaider), I conceded that the rumors might be false (ie: lies), despite being reported by our local beat writers.

What I don't concede is that Jason Jones or Jerry Mac are themselves lying when they say they are getting these rumors from people directly inside the organization. They are reporting what they've been told, not what they've just decided invent out of thin air.

Let's understand the distinction. Reporters may be reporting rumors/lies, but why are people on the inside persistently lying to reporters in the first place, in a manner that undermines the organization?

Which brings me back around to the topic of dysfunction, which some (not necessarily you, I might add) say really isn't an issue with the organization.

It is an issue, as evidenced in the dysfunctional and divisive rumors being propagated from within the organization itself.

7:20 AM  
Anonymous Gary said...

>>>>>
raider00 said...


why do you consider it negative spin by bama7 for saying we suck ?
>>>>>


Why?

Because that makes him no different than the "Faiduh sucks" morons that pop up in every Raider forum.

I expect it from the trolls, the Raider fans? Not so much.

Maybe you enjoy reading people that best their hands on the ground every day because their team didn't win enough games to make him happy, and has convinced himself they NEVER WILL... but I don't. To each their own I guess.

7:23 AM  
Anonymous Gary said...

>>>>
I have to admit. I was a blind supporter up until last year. But this is it. I've had it. The Raiders have called me to renew my season tickets, but I'M NOT INTERESTED! Call me when the old man steps down!
>>>>>


...and you will be the first to stand in line to buy them back (at a downgrade) if they go 9-7 next year.

Admit it.

7:28 AM  
Anonymous Gary said...

..and to the people that think Al likes to keep people around he wants fired. I remember from Snakes biography a story about how a rookie QB threw an errant pass that hit Al in the head on the sidelines and everyone rushed back to his locker after practice to get any stuff they loaned him. They all knew he would be gone by morning!

Al makes kneejerk decisions... he doesn't sit around waiting for people to quit. Unless maybe the Al-haters think Al is just too damn senile to behave the same as he has the past 50 years or something? Who knows?

Bottom line: If Al wants Kiffin gone, he'd already be gone... anything else is just people making shit up again.

7:33 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

The posts I'm reading from Jason Jones and JMac identify "team executives." I don't read that as Raider team executives, I read that as executives from other teams who are going by the press reports (what else can they go on?). If this stuff was coming from Raider team executives, that means the team would be saying something, doesn't it.

7:34 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Blanda, apparently we haven't been reading the same reports. There have been several recently referring to inside sources, a few examples are below (I don't have time to track them all down):

JMac, Feb 23: "After speaking with a number of people both in and out of the organization over the past few days, the feeling here is Kiffin is no lock to be the Raiders coach when the season begins."

JMac, Jan 31: "That bit of news came Wednesday night from a team source I trust, and pretty much ruins my growing belief that things appeared to be working themselves out between Kiffin and owner Al Davis."

So, back to my point...

7:45 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Gary, you'd make a great Detroit Lions fan. There would be no limits to your tolerance for losing and mismanagement. You would endure a full decade or more of bad drafts, losing records and coaching carousels. You would view the Millen Man March as nothing but illegitimate griping. You would mock those who got fed up and decided to vocalize their frustrations. Accountability and standards would be immaterial to your worldview.

The problem here is that people have mistaken loyalty for excellence, faith for reality. With all of the enabling and excuses floating around here, you'd think we WERE talking about the Detroit Lions.

Folks, this is THE RAIDERS. This means we not only have standards, we have HIGHER standards. Without these standards, we are just another franchise, the Vikings of the West, the Chargers of the North.

Our unique passion and loyalty as Raiders fans are based on something, and that "something" is the very thing that is being threatened by all of the enabling and excuses that would suggest that this is just another franchise, and that we should lower our expectations accordingly, and that we should ignore the obvious.

9:05 AM  
Anonymous Gary said...

>>>
Gary, you'd make a great Detroit Lions fan. There would be no limits to your tolerance for losing and mismanagement.
>>>>


Ja... when was the last time the Lions were in a SB?

If you morons want to reduce yourself to the intelligence of trolls... knockyourselvesthefuckout!!

THE SKY IS FALLING BECAUSE THE PRESS TELLS US THAT AL WANTS TO FIRE KIFFIN!!!! OMFG WE ARE ALL DOOOMED!!!!

Good gawd.

I think I will believe the words of people like Rob Ryan... from a friend that listens to NFL radio:

...quote...

Listening to Rob Ryan on the NFL radio the other day, he was talking
about all of the disinformation being published, including the report that "he (Ryan) had been fired" at the end of the season.

Caveman reiterated that Kiffin was still head coach, and thought that
Mr. Davis was "having a little fun" with the media.

Al is working the press into a frenzy, and having a good time doing it.

....end quote....


Keep feeding at the trough of shit the media is feeding you RT. Just don't kiss me with those lips after next season when all things Raider have returned to normal.

9:18 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Touched a nerve, did I?

This has nothing to do with the media and everything to do with the dysfunction that has led to the worst five-year streak in the past 30 years of the NFL. Can't blame the media for that.

When the Raiders return to playing competitive football, I will congratulate myself for being a part of the solution, for having standards and exercising my voice, and for not excusing the inexcusible or ignoring the obvious.

Tough love is tough. You ought to try it.

9:25 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

As for the team screwing around with the media (and, by extension, the fans) and taking joy in fostering negativity and confusion, that's certainly their prerogative. If that's how they get their rocks off, then they should certainly knock themselves out.

However, if at a later date, say when the Coliseum lease expires, the team starts crying about revenue problems, it will be hard to be sympathetic.

9:35 AM  
Anonymous Gary said...

Here's the people the Al-haters are hanging their hats on:

"Peter King estimated on HBO's Inside the NFL Thursday that there's a 75% chance Lane Kiffin will be out of a job in the next couple of weeks."

Date: 2-01-08

FLASH FORWARD:

"Lane Kiffin may have been here representing the Raiders as their head coach, but I say it's no better than 50-50 that he'll coach Oakland this fall. Trust me on this one, Raider Nation. I'm not trying to stoke the fires or keep beating a dead horse."

-Peter King, 2-24-08


HILARIOUS!!!

9:39 AM  
Anonymous Gary said...

>>>>>
However, if at a later date, say when the Coliseum lease expires, the team starts crying about revenue problems, it will be hard to be sympathetic.
>>>>


As long as the team wins, nothing else matters RT. You've even said it yourself.

Make up your mind.

The stands will be full with a winning team and you know it.

9:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"...and you will be the first to stand in line to buy them back (at a downgrade) if they go 9-7 next year.

Admit it."

LMAO! Gary.....9-7 next year?? At a downgrade? LOL! Man, that's wishful thinking, isn't it? You must be confusing the Raiders for a team that actually believes in cohesion and continuity. A team that respects it's fans.

Here are the facts:

We have a coach that is, in effect, a lame duck this year. And while rumors are flying around about the coach's status, the owner does nothing to dispel these rumors.

Not that "lame duck" has any meaning in Raider land. After all, the decisions (personnel, coaching and otherwise) will always be made by one man. Remember Mike White? 1995? They had an 8-2 record, then it was rumored that the players realized White was just a Davis puppet (which he was) and lost respect for him. The result? They choked off 6 straight losses to end the season.

We have an owner that still believes good DB play and man defense will result in a stellar DEF. You saw the error in that thinking last year, as we allowed second string RB's to look like hall of famers. Also, if your DB's are anything less than star material, they are exposed. Only Namdi is star material back there.

Good point RT. It is a sad day when our fellow Raider fans have succomed to our state of affairs.

9:48 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

The stands would be fuller with a losing team if the customer outreach was better, and if the team wasn't allegedly taking so much glee in fostering negative media coverage.

A good business plan is not about waiting for winning, it's about maximizing potential revenues regardless of winning or losing. Sure, winning helps, but that doesn't absolve the responsibility of good business in the absence of winning.

9:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gary-

There is one thing I agree with you on. And that is that Peter King is a joke. He's always going back on his predictions, changing his mind, then saying "I told you so".

We're not hating on Al, here, either. Just telling it like it is. As I said before - I used to be a staunch defender of his. But now, I can't make any sense of him.

No other team has this kind of controversy surrounding it and if you like keeping your blinders on, then by all means. The team is counting on fans like you!

9:51 AM  
Anonymous Gary said...

BTW, I don't think he is fucking with the fans... I think he is fucking with the Al-haters.

Think about it. Who are two of the most hated draft picks Al has made lately... Jani and Huff. Both have been rumored to be on the trading blocks. Neither trade makes a lick of sense.... who would believe it besides Al-haters?

Who would believe that Al wants to get rid of Kiffin and yet is letting him remain on payroll besides the Al-haters?

Hey, I have a boneheaded theory that makes as much sense as any of the other moronic theories out there... maybe Al is purging the HOT of Al-haters knowing he has a great team ahead, and all the regular fans will swoop in on the abandoned tickets leaving the Al-haters on top of Mount Davis during the playoffs in 2009?

LOLOLOLOL!!!! Kinda fun speculating, isn't it!!!

9:58 AM  
Anonymous Gary said...

>>>>
No other team has this kind of controversy surrounding it and if you like keeping your blinders on, then by all means. The team is counting on fans like you!
>>>>


Like I said.... just don't kiss me with those shit-eating lips next year if the team returns to glory.

The Al-haters can kiss my rosy ass once the return begins. I can't wait!

10:01 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Like I said.... just don't kiss me with those shit-eating lips next year if the team returns to glory.

The Al-haters can kiss my rosy ass once the return begins. I can't wait!"

Ok - now we've stooped to name calling. Look...when you don't have anything coherent or intelligent to say in return, just admit that I've made a good point or don't reply at all - nobody will think any less of you. Instead your showing your true colors now. I'm done with you - your intellect is far inferior. I thought we were having a discussion but it is apparent it has turned into something else.

10:15 AM  
Anonymous Arkansan Raider said...

Anon 10:14, maybe if you'd give your name we might respect you in the morning.

---Jeff

10:21 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Gary, I just think you're taking the easy way out.

You'll just wait patiently for a year or two or three, when you can say "Gotcha!" By that time, you will have blatantly excused five, six, seven or eight straight years of awful football, but you will be comforted in your righteousness.

Meanwhile, the rest of us can do the heavy lifting that will get us back to that winning place, the heavy lifting of change, accountability, standards and adaptability. The heavy lifting of tough love. The heavy lifting that Al Davis himself is no doubt, in his own way, facing right now, and which can only be helped by fans who echo and encourage it.

I will be right with you when we start winning again, just as I am here now after all of this losing, and I will take pride in having not taken the easy way out along the way.

10:24 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

CalicoJack-CalicoJack:

Hold on just a moment there Bro...

First -n- Foremost I don't say everything is just fine.... "Peaches & Cream" Raider contingent certainly does NOT apply here...What does apply is that I am committed enough to this team as a "45"yr RaiderFan that I will NOT...Shall NOT...Can NOT...allow a bunch of mouthy "Mediot"s who are outsiders to the "RaiderCamp" take from me my joy of being who I am....a "Raider"....Now that ain't weakness Bro....That's strength in the face of "Adversity"....You of all people should understand that X-Marine....There will be NO Cry from me running around the deck "AbandonShip....AbandonShip...She's Sinkin" at the first sign of a "Battle" on the horizon...

Second....have you sat back and considered it from MrD's point of view...

"FreePublicity"....He got it last year with the #1 pick and now with the #4 he is the "Talk-o-da-Town"....and everybody just wants him to go away....but NO....instead his "SideKick" Kiff joins with him in this "Dysfunctional Situational Debacle" of total attention and free "Pub"...."Drink up me hardy's Yo-Ho"....

MrD can't be swept under the carpet and NO he won't let the "Mediots" dictate to him how to proceed as in "Panic....Quickly please...Get me a Press Conference"....as if he wants to play into their hands....Why should he when he can just sit back for a month of Sunday's and at the end of time the "Mediot"s all look like "ShitFacedBastardLiars" and are again discredited publicly...Chock up a huge victory for MrD on his way out....And....("IF") this team gets it together and wins this season it will drag in several new young fans who love the "Drama".....

PantyRaider...."3 bells all is well".....NOT!!!!!

11:51 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

AnnoAss 9:48am....

What the hell are you talking about....We lost our "QB" for the season against Dallas and lost the rest of the year without him....

RT...

Go back and look at the "CocaColaCo" around 1975-76 and explain to me how they hurt themselves with the Free "Pub" they got with the "NewCoke" when they took away my "Coke" for 3 freaken months.....It was a "BOOM NOT a BUST"....

RT...."ToughLove"....??????

PantyRaider....LoveFest!!!!!

12:20 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

""I Am What I Am....That's All That I Am....I'm PantyRaider The Raider Fan""....."YO-HO"

12:30 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

PantyRaider, one difference is that Coke was at the top of its game at that time (was it really the 1970s when they issued New Coke?) and the company dealt with the failure of New Coke quickly, decisively and publicly.

As I commented on Calico Jack's blog:

To say that fans (customers) shouldn't be affected by any of this is simply an opinion and an exercise in wishful thinking.

The fact that many fans ARE affected by this is an undeniable reality, one that impacts revenue and, ultimately, the team's viability in Oakland.

Good business is a function of reality, not opinion or wishful thinking. It's time for reality to be addressed.

12:36 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

There are plenty of NFL teams in much smaller markets who sellout ALL their home games year after year, win or lose. I imagine those teams practice good public relations.

Prior to 2007, the Raiders displayed marketing genius in taking over their ticket sales and, I believe, sold out 6 of 8 home games last year, after a horrendous 2006 season. Kudos.

Now, can someone explain to me the logic in allowing that marketing effort to disintegrate in a wake of negative media? Is there a larger plan here, or do they simply intend to just sit back and wait for the implosion?

People, let’s make a dollars and cents business decision to squelch the BS. And there’s no need to contact Peter King, Adam Schefter, or some other Raider-hater. Just place a simple post on your own (Raiders) web page to let the fans know that Kiffin is behind the scenes working his off-season program to perfection. Even if it’s not true. Is their anyone working public relations in “the building” or what?

And why is it that some think everything is A-okay just because Rob Ryan said he wasn’t actually fired and things are otherwise fine? Duh! I give SOB credit for being smart enough to maintain his “that’s life in the big city” diplomacy. The long-haired freak is merely showing us a level of intelligence and maturity that neither Davis or Kiffin appear to possess.

12:42 PM  
Anonymous Gary said...

>>>
Gary, I just think you're taking the easy way out.
>>>


Au contraire... it is YOU that is taking the easy way out. It's easy to parade around here 6 months ago when things were looking up with your now seemingly pathetic "minty fresh" and "all in" and then once things look not so good again, to not only not be "all in," but to treat the people that are still "all in" as the village idiots.

Oh... sure, if the Raiders have a great off season and the team starts off the pre-season playing well... we can once again expect you being "all in"... and you will pretend this period of time never existed, or prolly more pathetically, say you are happy to be wrong... but I am not going to let you get away with it. I am not going to let ANY of the gloom and doomers here get away with it.

That my friends is the easy way out... complain about shit when things are down, and then jump and down with joy when things are up.

The tough road is to persevere during the bad times as well as the good. The tough road is to look for the good things when things look bad.

Because you know what else? The Al-haters will be just as happy in losing (and being right) as in winning. You all will not admit it, but I know it is true. You've stuck your reputations on the Raiders for at least one more season.

OTOH, I am happy being "all in" even when things look like shit. If next year we end up 4-12 again... I will still be "all in"... and you guys can still be bellyaching about Al and everything else you have no control over.

You're like an abused spouse.

You're just as happy being miserable as being actually happy.

I find this pathetic. Sorry.

12:44 PM  
Anonymous Gary said...

>>>>
Even if it’s not true. Is their anyone working public relations in “the building” or what?
>>>>


Well this much I agree with... as a businessman myself, I think it's pretty stupid to play games with the media... because all it does is piss them off more. But it is what it is... both Al and Kiffin apparently despise dealing with the media, and they know if they put a winning team on the field, nothing else matters (once again... that's the mantra I keep seeing here, you can't pick and choose your slogans when you see fit).

Now if I were hearing anything from the actual players and coaches different than "all is well"... perhaps I'd be more willing to jump aboard the sky-is-falling brigade here for next season. The only player or coach I can remember complaining is Jerry Porter... and I'm sorry... a disgruntled players opinion is going to be discounted on my part.

12:58 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Gary, you used to be the cool kid in the back of the classroom, smirking at all of us taking things so seriously. Now look at you.

Raider Take is a venue that encourages daily commentary from diehard Raiders fans. Naturally, this commentary is going to focus on the events (or non events) of the DAY, not the decade.

When we signed Randy Moss, I thought it was great, and I figured those who paid him millions had done their due diligence. That was one day.

Later, when it turned out he was an utter disgrace, I concluded that he needed to go, and that we never should have signed him. That was another day.

Do you get it?

As the team goes up and down, so do the fans and their emotions. Great decisions are applauded, bad ones are questioned. Wins are celebrated, losses are not.

A year or two of losing is not the end of the world. However, five straight years resulting in the worst five-year run in the NFL in 30 years is naturally going to generate concern and discussion and angst, especially when it's followed by unabated perceived turmoil.

Al Davis himself, I can assure you, is very concerned in his own way about the state of the team, its record over the past five years, and his own poor decisions that contributed to all of this.

Yet you would deny us the same concern, preferring to curse and call people names like Hater and, essentially, Judas.

Using your logic, when the team does start winning big again, I shouldn't expect you to get too excited, because you don't really see any difference between winning and losing.

1:05 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"I want a divorce"....
.....da "Abused Spouse"....

RT....You missed the point....Coke quit making the regular Coke and came out with the "NewCoke" without warning....Coke Fans got "Irate" and there was tremendous "Pub" for 3 months....than Coke brought back the "ClasicCoke" and all was well....But they KickedAss on the competition with all the free "Pub"....It was all planed Bro...NOT just a casual mistake...Their stock went threw he roof....

The Raiders will survive and as was written...."Bad 'Pub' is Better Than NO 'Pub'".....

PantyRaider....PubliclyAbused!!!!

1:15 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

OK...I just got it...

Ya all like abuse and get off on it....So every time a "Mediot" wants to come out with "SadNews" you anxiously scarf up the bleeding "Rag" and digest the "Crap"...

"MrD"s "HappyMeal"....

While some of us refuse the diet and are spoken of "Abusively" for not being partakers...

"Sadness Can't Stand Happy-ness"

PantyRaider...EternalLove!!!!!

1:27 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

PantyRaider- marketing definitely has its genius, and sometimes catches us by surprise, even unknowingly; but the current Raiders’ marketing ploy, if that’s what you want to call it, is light years beyond my understanding.

Gary- do you really believe there is no need for concern, or do you just not care? And please don't pretend this is a casual passtime and you don't get your panties in a bunch (sorry Panty), because you wouldn't be here having this exchange if it wasn't somehow a passion of yours. I just wonder where your passion lies.

1:34 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

What is a "Widget"...

http://www.raiders.com/Tickets/Default.aspx?id=30202

Can't figure out how to use it...Please help...

1:44 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

http://www.myprefs.com/?@OptInSignUp&p2p=Signup

E-News letter from the Raiders....maybe it will tell us something...

1:50 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

PantyRaider, I want to believe you, but to date the team's cryptic approach to media relations certainly hasn't helped the organization rise from the lower rungs of NFL team revenues.

Maybe this time it will be different. Maybe this is a brilliantly orchestrated spectacle that will be rewarded by a rush of season ticket sales. Maybe the stock will rise as a result. Then we will drink lots of grog and be merry.

1:58 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

RT....I really have no idea just like you but I just don't give up hope...

I contacted the the head of the Internet Raiders Boosters for help in the matter and invited him to join in the discussion....When I was with the clubs we got insider info from Jim Otto about things that were reported in the media and lies....at that time it was regarding the Raiders fight with Oakland and all the crap about moving....the info from the team turned out to be the truth....

Here is info about the internet club...

OAKLAND RAIDERS INTERNET BOOSTERS Leroy Zine 1380 Copping Ct Folsom, CA 95630 prez@orib.org

This is worth joining...

PantyRaider....Settlementwanted!!!

2:11 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Give Davis credit, though. He's still an innovator. Sadly, his specialty is devising new ways to wreck his own organization.

Now how could we possibly listen to someone who ends their report like that....

"HateTripper"s......But it's funny...the picture of "MrD" looks kinda "Psycho"....

http://www.insidebayarea.com/raiders

PantyRaider....Psycho's-Gone!!!!

2:30 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/story/7841876/Who's-hot,-who's-not,-NFL-Combine-version

Something positive to feed our minds on....

PantyRaider...WishList!!!!

2:47 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

rt, i think we need a "news you can't use" article, and a "news that can go either way" article, and a "news that is dead on" article.
i think these recent writings of both local and national media should be labelled under "news you can't use" based on past articles that you've ran (if not, can you explain to me why? and the "local media says so" does not merit with me). there is no basis to them. the only way it can be filed under "can go either way" is when no pr guy, ad, lk, or any other player/coach on the team has made refutting comments (like ryan, kiffin, davis, and the pr guy has, even though all but ryan's comments were brief).
file them under "dead on" is when it happens, and comments from inside confirm the "rumors".

2:54 PM  
Anonymous Gary said...

>>>>
Gary- do you really believe there is no need for concern, or do you just not care?
>>>>


I've wrote my thoughts publicly right here when the Kiffin getting fired story broke about how both Kiffin and Al both need to get themselves to a microphone to put out this grease-fire, and for some odd reason they didn't listen. I also urged season ticket holders to voice their concerns to their ticket reps (the only fans that actually have any clout at all) and some listened, and some didn't.

I've done my part... I don't know what more I can do. I don't see the sense in pounding my fists in anger over it every frigging day for the next 6 months... nor do I take any pleasure in doing such. Obviously I am alone (with the exception of mostly H and Blanda) in not joining the fist-on-floor-cause-the-Raiders-are-going-to-suck-forever dept.

All I can do as a fan is hope for the best and keep a positive attitude.... and for that, I am largely treated as the village idiot. To each their own... how many times can I say it?

2:57 PM  
Anonymous Gary said...

>>>>
Using your logic, when the team does start winning big again, I shouldn't expect you to get too excited, because you don't really see any difference between winning and losing.
>>>>

The clear difference is that aside from the media driven grease-fires (which to Al and Kiffins discredit, they refuse to put out) I have great confidence that the team will be VERY competitive next year, especially after I decided that the Kiffin/firing story was mostly bullshit. There is nothing I have seen that makes me thing differently, especially considering there hasn't been a SINGLE rumor that has become true since the day Kiffin has been hired... thus I discount ALL of them. Thus IF the team does well next year, I think I deserve to take great pride in the Raiders.

OTOH... the guys that believed every frigging rumor floated, and have done nothing besides predict doom and gloom for next year are sure going to look like a bunch of frigging hypocritical morons if the team does well next year... doncha think? Like I said... most of you have staked your reputation on the Raiders sucking next year... what are you really going to do if it doesn't happen? I already know the answer. Do you?

3:10 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

RaiderNate, the record will reflect that I reserve News You Can't Use status for articles that are outright biased, illogical, inaccurate or plain hateful, and in cases when I can prove them as such, as I have done in each News You Can't Use analysis.

People used to say that I hated all media because of this, and I would respond that, no, for every such article singled out for News You Can't Use, dozens are written (pro and con) that aren't singled out.

Still, I contended, and continue to contend, that the Raiders bring out the worst in some writers, and I am still committed to holding these writers accountable.

Oddly, I'm now being painted as someone who's in bed with the media, when my viewpoint and attitude haven't changed.

Jerry Mac and Jason Jones have NEVER been singled out for News You Can't Use. This is because I've always found their reporting to be fair, accurate and professional. Unlike Ratto, Killion and others.

It is their job to report on the team and what they are hearing from their sources on the inside. I do not perceive hate or illogic or falsity in their reporting. I will not blast them for doing their jobs. That's not the point of News You Can't Use.

Sure, we might question their use of certain sources and their willingness to report "rumors," but if the organization were more forthcoming in terms of information and interviews, then they wouldn't have to fill such a huge vacuum. It's not their fault that the organization's most vocal individuals prefer to remain anonymous and ply the rumor trade.

3:17 PM  
Anonymous Gary said...

Could someone provide me with a list of current Raider players or coaches that have publicly stated that the current environment they work in under Al is toxic and unworkable?

Perhaps then I can too become a gloom-and-doomer towards next year.


Thanx in advance.

3:23 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Gary, I don't recall anyone saying or betting on the Raiders sucking in 2008.

I do recall people (yourself included) saying that this perceived turmoil is bad marketing, bad business and bad for fan morale (and, by extension, revenues).

And, as Calico Jack so cogently articulated, it certainly can't be helping attract free agents and coaches, and it can't be helping player relations.

So if the Raiders succeed this year, it will be in spite of this mess, not because of it.

So why should I be happy that there is now one more potential impediment to progress?

As I've said before, the margin for error after five losing seasons is really slim. So why embrace and excuse any errors at this point?

I really hope that the Raiders turn things around this year. It's possible. I just think it would be more possible if we had addressed our defensive coordinator shortcomings, and if we had addressed this controversy, which has included people inside the organization spreading rumors and innuendo in lockstep with BSPN.

So don't tell me I won't have a right to cheer our wins in 2008, however many they may be.

3:34 PM  
Blogger H said...

I, for one, do not have blinders on. There are problems. I also feel they are in the process of being fixed.

One thing is certain. Based on the media's agenda driven bashing of the Raiders, the head coach, whomever that might be, will have to have a very thick skin.

As for marketing, I've always said the Raiders have never been one of the best at marketing. They always relied on the product on the field to do the marketing for them. If anything, they could probably use a good public relations firm.

The main thing I do is not buy into every negative piece written about the team. Whether the piece is read by some talking head in Bristol, Connecticut or it's published on the internet.

Maybe I'm just jaded when it comes to the media, or, perhaps, I'm just a fan who doesn't really care what they say. I'm still a fan, and will remain so.

Contrary to popular belief on this site, I do care whether they win or loose. The loosing sucks. But, I refuse to become a pessimest. I prefer to wait it out and see what actually happens. Speculating is fine, as long as it is identified so. Thus far this off season Peter King, Adam Schefter and a host of others have been wrong. Bucky Brooks wrote a semi positive piece on the team and all these clowns wanted to know just who the hell is Bucky Brooks even though he wrote it for CNNSI.com.

The media has become "If you can't say anything negative, then don't say anything at all." One of the most overlooked articles the last season was one on Thomas and Howard. It gave a very positive view of the two, and it got very little recognition while the negative ones continue to pile up and up.

H

3:45 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

i hope you don't think that i'm painting you in bed with the media, because my short time here, i no better. if so, a thousand apologies for making you feel that way.
i understand that jjones and jmac are "usually" reliable sources. but even the raiders bring the worst out of these guys when they exclude them. even in these times, i agree that they don't bash the raiders like some "other" local reporters. i just didn't know the exact "rule of thumb" you had on that because to me hatred is hatred. if they're backs aren't getting rubbed, they won't rub theirs by reporting the truth(s). so now i understand that you view that as angry, rather than hatred with the reliables. that is all i was asking, so i thank you for your reply; and again i apologize if you viewed my comments as putting you in bed with the media.
i just wonder if they know the truth, but have received a "kick back" to report lies? (coming from a great conspiracy theorist)!

4:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Gary, how does that Silver and Black koolaid taste? lol oh and where did you get those blinders? I need to get me a pair just like that! And how heavy is that company line you are towing? hahahaha

4:41 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

No worries, bro, I didn't mean to suggest that you were saying I'm in bed with the media, just that some others have painted me as such lately (if only by suggestion).

I think a lot of this comes down to the fact that some folks are confusing the media and media coverage with the way the Raiders are handling the media and media coverage.

The media and media coverage could very well be out of control. We can wish it weren't out of control, just as I could argue with the weather today.

The question is, how are we going to deal with it? By flunking media relations 101? By letting the fans twist in the wind of confusion and doubt? By fostering an environment in which people within the organization are emboldened to feed the rumor machine? By flirting audaciously with the potential negative impacts outlined by Calico Jack? By going out in the rain without an umbrella and then being surprised we got wet?

Why are we creating one more impediment to progress and unity? Can we afford such impediments at this time, after so many losing seasons? No.

That's my issue right now. The media problem is what it is. Life isn't fair, which is all the more reason you've got to be smart when the chips are down.

4:50 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"Tracked down by Jerry McDonald, my MediaNews Group colleague, Kiffin declined comment on any specific questions about his status. That doesn't exactly squelch the intrigue. All indications are that the situation remains at an impasse"

Now tell me please....how do they get this conclusion when NO-NO-NO comments were made....NO-NO-NO answers were given....I don't see where a single comment came from within the Raider Organization except the one from SOB that everyone wants to ignore....

SO...In conclusion....If you don't "Answer-n-Defend" than you must be "Guilty"....It's just NOT allowed to ignore the "Mediot"s....

"The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword And We Will Wield It Against You"...for what purpose...to destroy anyone who does not bow down to these damn "Mediot"s...

Remember last season..."JRus"....the kid was unsigned and all the reports were "Crap" against the Raiders and "MrD"....But in the end it was "MrD" who won and was valiant in the face of the "WeakAssGreedy" agents....But what will be remembered....Only the "Crap" that "MrD" could not sign his #1 pick....

It's not "MrD" and the Raiders who are tearing down this franchise....It's the G..D Damn "Mediot"s and other NFL Executives who are amongst the "HateTripper"s....Like the commissioner past-n-present...So now tell me ...Who the hell are these NFL Executives....PatsyLiars like BellyChick....JoeThiesman-n-RonJerorski....PatHadden owner of the Donko's....NorvTurner-n-JonGruden...ShannaRat-n-DearDorf...

PantyRaider....Can't Hear You!!!!

PS...AnnoAss 4:41...No problem idiot...there are several of us to bare the load and carry the burden and we will enjoy shoving your "Crap" back down your throat latter....

4:52 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Lane Kiffin Head Coach
Willie Brown Defensive Backs, Squad Development
Tom Cable Offensive Line
James Cregg Assistant Offensive Line
John DeFilippo Quarterbacks
Curtis Fuller Quality Control, Special Teams
Randy Hanson Assistant Defensive Backs
Adam Henry Quality Control, Offense
Mark Jackson Director of Football Development
Don Johnson Assistant Defensive Line
Greg Knapp Offensive Coordinator
Sanjay Lal Quality Control, Offense
James Lofton Wide Receivers
Don Martindale Linebackers
George Martinez Quality Control, Defense
Keith Millard Defensive Line
Darren Perry Defensive Backs
Tom Rathman Running Backs
Brad Roll Strength and Conditioning
Rob Ryan Defensive Coordinator
Brian Schneider Special Teams Coordinator
Kelly Skipper Tight Ends

Now when something changes on this board at "raiders.com" I will get concerned....but until than this is nothing but "Mediot" "Crap" and I ain't eatin....

PantyRaider....No-Crap-Diet!!!!

5:03 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

for those people hangin their hats on quotes from rob ryan, i would caution.

rob ryan is the biggest ass kissin, yes man around the raiders these days.

and his defense's have been utter failures.
the man should be long gone, but the fact that he is still hangin in there shouting out quotes is laughable.

he is worming his way into the HC spot, where he will get a big pay day, lose big time, and walk away saying he's the victim.

at the very least, he will continue on as Dc, saying "yes sir, yes sir", all the way to the bank, while lofton is HC.

the sooner this clown is gone from the raiders, the better off we all will be.

5:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"That's life in the big city man"

5:33 PM  
Anonymous Gary said...

>>>>>
So don't tell me I won't have a right to cheer our wins in 2008, however many they may be.
>>>>

Of course you get to... thats the great thing, isn't it? If the team stinks you get to be right, and if the team wins, you get to cheer with the rest of us that weren't pointing fingers the entire off-season.

And you accused me of taking the easy way out? Cmon man. Cut the crap. The easy road is right where the gloom and doomers are happily driving around on here. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous.

And I am not buying that this negative press makes it harder to pick up quality free agents unless its actually true (which is anyones guess). Like I said... until you gloom and doomers start backing some of your guesses up with actual facts (like players and coaches saying things are FUBAR) I am piling it on top of the rest of the trash that is spewed here as fact.

7:47 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Gary, some questions for you which would shed new light and clarify your previous posts:

(1) Is it your position that if a fan like RT or myself voices concerns about the current health & welfare of the Raider organization, we are "Gloom & Doomers"?

(2) Do you honestly believe that any fan on this board wants the Raiders to tank to "justify their position"?

(3) Should a fan who holds Al Davis accountable for the abominable 19 and 61 record over the past 5 years be classified as "Al Haters"?

(4) What is your definition of
"persevere during the bad times as well as the good."? Would making a 4 hour round trip drive to each and every home game last season like RT did count? Does the fact that the last time I missed a Raider game was during the 1990/91 season because I was participating in Ops Desert Storm count?

(5) By your standards, can someone be "All In" and still voice objective criticism?

(6) Your statement "As long as the team wins, nothing else matters", is true to a point. However, how many years of quantifyable failure are you willing to withstand? 5 years? 10 years? At what point does the loyal fan expect a better return on their dollar and time?

(7) Do you honestly believe a loyal, die hard Raider fan who has the gear, goes to games, checks Raider News daily is "just as happy being miserable as being actually happy."? Please. We all know the feeling after a Raider victory. That feeling of euphoria where you have a little extra bounce in your step. Food tastes better. The work week is more tolerable.

(8) Is your "confidence that the team will be VERY competitive next year" based on knowing Kiffin will return in 2008 with full authority or something else?

(9) When you say "competitive" do you mean 8 and 8 or better?

(10) Do you honestly believe the Huff & SeaBass trade rumors are some master plan to rid the "Al Haters"?

(11) In todays media driven world, do you believe Kiffin/Davis have some level of obligation or responsibility to have some semblence of a relationship with the press?

(12) Are you staking your "claim" that everything is hunky dory on a few quips from Rob Ryan? Seriously. What did you expect Ryan to say?

(13) Finally, do you give any weight to the opinions and observations of beat writers like JMac and JJ? Do you at least acknowledge that their writings correctly paints a picture of dysfunction?

Sincerely,
Calico Jack

9:37 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Calico Jack took the words out of my mouth and improved upon them.

Suddenly I'm a hater and a gloom & doomer since...when, exactly? Since stating the obvious?

All who are thrilled about the return of Rob Ryan and the organization's handling of the rumor mill, raise your hands!

Since when are my Raider fan credentials contingent upon being thrilled with these two developments, which are the two biggest developments since the end of the season, and thus main topics of discussion here at Raider Take?

Since when is our margin of error in these types of matters not razor thin?

Since when are loyalty and independent thought mutually exclusive? This isn't Raider Propaganda Channel, it's Raider Take.

If you love Rob Ryan's defense and think we couldn't do better, and if you think that this whole rumor turmoil will really help us succeed in 2008, then just stand up and say it. Don't hide behind name calling and "I'm in."

Otherwise, you're just a "gloom & doomer" like me, I guess.

10:14 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Wow...What up wit all da "BrotherlyLove" Bro's....

All I can say is I have come to hate the "Mediot"s and the NFL Executives as much as I hate the lying bastards that are running this country into the dirt...

I don't believe or trust any of them....the moment they move their lips or start writing I know their lying....

PantyRaider...TruthFreak-in-a-LyingWorld!!!!

10:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

:CALL ME ASSASSIN

If McFadden is there at #4 the Raiders should take him. With winning football games seemingly shuffled down the priority list a bit, we as fans, deserve the excitement.
McFadden and his highlight reel touchdown runs, will go a long way in removing the bitter taste of an insane off-season thus far.

Losing is bad enough but the product that's being placed on the field, isn't even entertaining.
That's the assesment of at least one committed lifetime fan.

If the organization isn't willing to so far as to actually coordinate the administration, coaches, and players into a cohesive unit its the least it could do for the greatest fan base ever seen on the face of the Earth.

And really, is Al likely to pass on a 4.3 40 running McFadden, who by the way, has managed to impregnate two different co-eds at the same time? He's already an "Old School Raider".

11:40 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Wow! Some great points made by Calico Jack and Raider Take. Although, I wonder why Calico stopped at unlucky #13. Couldn’t you have added one more, or stopped one short? Just a thought.

At the end of the day, I guess if we can’t hold the Raiders accountable for the worst five-year stretch in pro sports, then perhaps we should hold ourselves accountable. Possibly, we’ve become too complacent as fans.

I would like to make one other observation about the combine. Wasn’t it this time last year that Kiffin was openly and publicly interacting with players, coaches and the media at the combine? Minty fresh, remember?

This year is the complete opposite. What happened? Should I just assume it’s coincidence?

5:37 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hopefully Al will hold a press conference here in the next few weeks once we get our "big" FA moves out of the way in early March. I don't know if I should bring batteries to this one, or??

Psycho

6:45 AM  
Blogger H said...

All McFadden Fans,

Along with his off field altercations (bar fights), part of his contract negotiations will be his child support payments to three different mothers of his three children. This is widely reported on local radio stations in the Atlanta area. He won’t be 21 until August. This hasn’t reached the level of a Lawrence Phillips yet, but it’s rapidly approaching.

Do we really want the team to take on this potential problem? I don’t.

Take,

I have never lumped you, Calico, Bama or any of the others in with the “Haters”. I save that term for the Adam Schefters or Peter Kings of the world. We are here to debate. Debate is good. I may disagree with you and all the others, but in the end we all want the same thing. However, I do have a problem with the bailers. Those who say, “Call me back when you have fixed everything.” To me they aren’t fans, they are bandwagoners, if there is such a word.

Things will become much clearer over the next few weeks. Free agency starts March 1st. What we do there will dictate how we will be approaching the draft.

As for the difference between Kiffin this year as opposed to last year at the combine. He may feel he has been undermined and stabbed in the back by the media. The media themselves may have indirectly caused some of the reported internal strife. And, until all is settled, for the good of the team, he has decided not to speak.

One could say the silence is deafening, but every time they say there is nothing to the reports, the media basically calls them liars. If that were happening to you, what would you do?

Responding to each and every charge is sometimes a full time job. As I’ve said, this is an area where the Raiders definitely could use improvement. Possibly they should look into a full time public relations position/spokesperson.

Psycho,

If the news conference occurs, bring a six pack, but not batteries.

H

7:17 AM  
Anonymous Gary said...

>>>>>
Suddenly I'm a hater and a gloom & doomer since...when, exactly? Since stating the obvious?
>>>>>


For me it's continually dwelling on the last five years record and not focusing at all on how things were being fixed at all the last year. Thats why I freaked out when I thought Kiffin was being shown the door, and calmed down when it was obvious the story was mostly bullshit.

I don't think you have calmed down one iota, RT. You are still a panic-stricken fan... how can you pretend otherwise?

And I have been one of SOB's biggest detractors, and also wanted him gone. My biggest problem with him is he's too conservative. Do I know for a fact he will be conservative next year also? No. Is it possible they have decided to bring back the 3-4 and commit to getting the players needed to run it (the defense he actually understands?) Yes. Will they actually do it?

This is information I am not privy to, so I will just have to wait and see, and hope for the best.

Now IF next year Kiffin is gone, and SOB is still running a conservative 4-3 defense... I will join you in your continual dwelling on the 5+ years of losing, and how this is the Raiders and we demand better than this dammittall!!!

Until then, I will simply shake my head at the people banging their fists on the ground because the Raiders aren't giving them the instant gratification to salve their panic-stricken feelings, wait to see how things actually play out, and hope for the best.

[shrug]

7:26 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
(1) Is it your position that if a fan like RT or myself voices concerns about the current health & welfare of the Raider organization, we are "Gloom & Doomers"?
>>>>


Dwelling on 5 years of losing, while ignoring the 4 years of winning before that, and especially ignoring the steps being made to fix the problems is gloom and dooming. Sorry to pee on your cornflakes.

>>>>
(2) Do you honestly believe that any fan on this board wants the Raiders to tank to "justify their position"?
>>>>

I think they would prefer to win, but would be almost as happy to rub shit in the faces of the people that were optimists. Absolutely.

>>>>
(3) Should a fan who holds Al Davis accountable for the abominable 19 and 61 record over the past 5 years be classified as "Al Haters"?
>>>>>

No, an Al-hater is someone that wouldn't give Al credit for anything if their life depended on it.

>>>>>
(4) What is your definition of
"persevere during the bad times as well as the good."? Would making a 4 hour round trip drive to each and every home game last season like RT did count? Does the fact that the last time I missed a Raider game was during the 1990/91 season because I was participating in Ops Desert Storm count?
>>>>>


I am only addressing the fist-pounding and finger pointing here.

>>>>
(5) By your standards, can someone be "All In" and still voice objective criticism?
>>>>>


LOL! Do you HONESTLY think there is objectivity here? Okee dokey!





>>>>>
(6) Your statement "As long as the team wins, nothing else matters", is true to a point. However, how many years of quantifyable failure are you willing to withstand? 5 years? 10 years? At what point does the loyal fan expect a better return on their dollar and time?
>>>>>


I'm willing to give them one more year considering I saw actual quantifiable IMPROVEMENT last year.

Lets be honest with each other here. The only reason you guys are pounding your fists on the floor and pointing fingers is because the Raiders lost 12 games this year. If they had pulled out three of those last minute losses, would we even be having this discussion?

"All in" my ass. You are pissed because of 3-4 games that turned out poorly.

But do carry on... to each their own.


[...]

7:43 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Gary, you've always got some new characterization. Today it's "panic stricken."

You're not happy Rob Ryan was retained, and you said you think the Raiders should be doing a better job of putting out the rumor grease fire.

That makes two of us. That makes you panic stricken, apparently.

I am blogging about the news of the day. I can't blog about the Raiders switching to the 3-4 and Rob Ryan turning into the second coming of Buddy Ryan because...it hasn't happened.

I can't blog about there being no fire where there's been smoke with the Kiffin situation because...neither Kiffin nor Mr. Davis have stepped up to personally refute the rumors, despite having ample opportunity. Whether you like it or not, that's a story right now. That's news. That's cause for concern.

We're talking about the news of the day here, because this is a daily blog, not the "we won a lot of games in 2002" blog or the "Rob Ryan MIGHT blitz someday" blog.

You're the one pounding your fists, not me. You're the one dropping profanities, name calling, etc.

Just because I'm writing 10 replies to what I consider illogical and unrealistic comments from others doesn't mean I would have written 10 entries on these topics in the absence of such comments. There's a difference between responding and obsessing.

I'd be happy to let some of this stuff drop if I wasn't being called names, my worldview wasn't being questioned, my comments weren't being mischaracterized, and if people would quit advancing preposterous theories and excuses.

7:52 AM  
Anonymous memdf said...

Doom and gloom - How's this?

They draft McD, clearly an AD pick and Mendenhall tears up the league. They still can't stop the run because SOB runs the no blitz/11 man coverage D for another year.

Kiffin is a lame duck coach that the team can't buy into because they all know who's boss ala bugel and white. Another 4-12 disaster.

Every game is a blackout because the fans no longer buy into this either.

Rathman, who has to be given some credit for Fargas' play, leaves, along with Cable, Knapp and Kiffin.

But remember "The greatness of the Raiders is in it's future."

9:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My worst nightmare scenario. Probably not too far off the way it's looking.

Psycho

10:00 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

This is getting f-ing ridiculous. The press has now engineered a story where Raider fans are beginning to eat their own. I'm watching many of you rip apart Gary because he's a die hard fan who refuses to buy into rumormongering unless it is backed up by a little evidence. The opinion of his detractors seems to be, "so much smoke, there must be a fire." All lingering memories of similar "sky is falling reports" from every season past, even the Super Bowl years, have been forgotten.

I'll have to write something this weekend. While Gary, H, others, and myself have repeatedly said that we see problems at Raider HQ, while disagreeing with detractors as to what problems actually exist, we get belittled and abused as having "drank the Kool-Aide."

I understand how difficult it is to fight the avalanche of bad publicity. Eventually you just want to give into it, proof or no proof, because the media is going to stick with that bad story. The reporters know that once proved wrong, the story will just fade away and no one will remember who reported it. They also know that the fringe fans will get frustrated enough to abandon the team, especially after five losing seasons.

This is an old game that the media plays with the Raiders. "We'll force you into an interview if you always refuse to grant us one." For the entirety of the first four years they were back from LA, the constant refrain was "they just moved back to improve their bargaining position to return to LA." FOUR-F*ING-YEARS!!!!

And in all of those four years, Davis never once held an interview to assure the Raider faithful that wasn't the plan. And we were told if Davis was NOT giving an interview, or PUBLICLY denying it, it just had to be true. And, BTW, Take, have you considered how constant stories of the Raiders moving back to LA might have hurt season ticket sales?

We are now going into the THIRTEENTH year since the Raiders moved back from Los Angeles. Davis' son has been seen going around the Bay Area looking for a permanent Football Only forum for the Raiders to forever call home. And yet, there are still some idiots I've seen here who want to tell us that Al is still planning the move back to LA.

Have you heard Ratto say, "I must have have been full of shit when I reported that Al had already committed to moving back to LA?" Crickets. Killion? No. Gay. No. Ira Miller said it too. Crickets.

The City of Oakland bought into the press reports so deeply that they filed for a court ordered injunction to prevent the Raiders from moving! The complaint was dismissed. Why? Because there was never a scrap of evidence that the Raiders ever intended to move again.

But many of you are right. I acknowledge that there are currently problems in how Raider's HQ is operated. In fact there has been for about 15 years, not the last five. I just think that the problems are virtually the opposite of how they've been identified. They are not, however, anywhere near as dire as expressed on this site, or anywhere else. I'll try to explain over the weekend on my blog.

In the mean time, why don't you ask some serious questions why Gary, H or I feel differently instead of peppering us with cheap Jim Rome style insults.

10:08 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Blanda, go back and read the comments. I've clearly stated my case, and have not resorted to profanities, name calling (Al Hater, Judas, etc.), cheap characterizations (panic stricken) or other cheap shots.

Ready my most recent reply to Gary, three comments up, and tell me what I'm missing, or where we actually disagree?

As far as I can tell, we're all on the same page as far as the Raiders making blunders with regard to the handling of Rob Ryan and the handling of the rumors.

That's not a witch hunt or a panic button, it's just a reasonable observation about the news of the day. Heck, even Gary agrees with me on these points.

I think that the main disagreement here is that some of you think it's okay for the Raiders to continue to blunder, whereas some of us have had our fill of blunders and believe that the margin for error is so razor thin that anything that gets in the way of progress should no longer be tolerated, or at the very least, not encouraged or excused.

And please quit playing this shell game regarding the media, trying to confuse the issue of aggregate media behavior with the issue of how the Raiders are responding to this behavior, and how the Raiders are apparently fostering an environment in which people inside the organization are emboldened to feed the negative rumor mill and thus the problem of aggregate media behavior.

This is a distinction that must be made in order for us to have an honest debate.

10:29 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Take, go back and read my post again. We DO NOT agree as to what the blunders are, NOR is the discussion about whether it's okay for the Raiders to "continue to blunder."

And, no, we are not on the same page about the handling of Rob Ryan. We have no idea what the handling of Rob Ryan is. There seems to be some difference in that regard between Rob Ryan and the media. The question seems to be who to believe. You seem to have chosen the press version. While I don't feel that one must take Ryan's word for it, at least he's in the middle of the situation and can speak with some authority. You'd have to admit there is no better place for inside knowledge on the firing of Rob Ryan than Rob Ryan.

And, Take, I don't identify you as the source of cheap shots. You clearly are not. But you have had your way, lately, of using a few snide comments to accentuate your points, even though you must realize that the poster never made the argument you accredit to him. But that is neither here nor there. One of the difficulties is in attempting to gauge some one's tone by their written words. We all have the experience of coming off as sarcastic while we're attempting to be cleaver.

But while I have your attention, Take, tell me which story was likely more damaging to the Raiders; the four year crusade to convince Raider fans that the Raiders were planning to move again, or the recent crusade to inform us that the Raiders are fully incapable of wiping their own ass.

10:50 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Oh, and regarding JMac listening to a Raider source that he trusted... That was the source that told him that Ryan went into Davis' office to tell Davis that he was fired and to say goodbye, and Davis got pissed, yada yada.

I'd point out that Ryan has specifically disavowed that story. But, hey, Jerry has his trusted source, so Ryan must be lying, right? Given that criteria, all you are prepared to believe, if Davis did come out and say something, is that Davis is lying unless he says, "the press is right, I'm a loser along with my entire staff. I guess I better sell the team."

11:03 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Blanda:

Huh? You're not addressing my points.

Let me get this straight:

Do you or don't you think we could have, and should have, found a replacement for Rob Ryan this year, considering the performance of our defense?

I do, and I consider that a blunder. It has nothing to do with the press stuff.

Do you or don't you think that the Raiders have mishandled the rumor mill (both in terms of adequately responding to it, and in terms of fostering an environment in which team employees are emboldened to feed the rumor mill), to the point of flirting with the negative impacts so cogently articulated by Calico Jack?

I do. That's another blunder in my opinion.

So either you don't think these are blunders, or you're excusing them.

I've been commenting on these topics because they are the biggest developments thus far this year, and I see them as impediments to progress and not acts of progress.

I'm not the one confusing these issues with the larger topic of media behavior, old stories about the team moving, etc. I am commenting ON these issues, and what I think are very possible consequences of these issues. I've been very consistent and disciplined on this matter. I'm not running around with scissors, shouting and going off on tangents.

11:10 AM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Thank you Gary for answering some of my questions plus giving me the permission to "carry on".

11:10 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Blanda, regarding your last comment, it doesn't matter who is lying, but rather that someone in the organization, by your admission, is lying (Ryan or JMac's source).

Unless you think that Jerry Mac is making this up out of whole cloth, and he never spoke with anyone, and the source doesn't exist?

Such destructive lying (whoever is doing the lying) from within the organization, which is certainly not limited to this instance, is a sign of organizational dysfunction and division. It is a blunder. It is an impediment to progress. This has been my point all along.

You just cannot seem to make the crucial distinctions that are the basis of my arguments, which would explain why you are so frustrated by them. I can't help you. I'm stating things very clearly, and I hope others can see that.

11:17 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Rob Ryan -

I've had problems with Rob Ryan since he got here. I've discussed those, re converting D-linemen to LBs, etc. I've discussed his reluctance to blitz. But I also understand, as stated by Kiffin, that the plan was that the defense would mimic exactly what they did in 2006. That sounds like a staff problem to me, not necessarily one specific to Rob Ryan. Whether Ryan stays or goes, it seems likely to me that they will change the defensive scheme this year, which I identify as the primary problem.

As to whether Kiffin wants Ryan gone. I've got absolutely no evidence that he does except what the press tells me. So how can you tell me that the press is not the issue here?

The Rumor Mill -

The Raiders are handling the rumor mill exactly the same way they've handled it for 40 years. "Watch what we do, not what they say about us," has always been the Raider refrain. It is your opinion that these particular rumors need to be addressed differently than the rumors of seasons past. I disagree. The only reason I'd like the Raiders to put the stories to rest is because I'm sick of hearing about it. Just like I was sick of hearing that they were moving back to LA.

Ultimately, we will begin to see exactly how the Raiders resolve their issues when they get to camp. The same as every other year. If Schefter can convince Raider fans to give up their season seats, fine. They'll buy them back at a higher price if the Raiders are winning.

As for a full explanation of what I feel is wrong, you'll have to wait till I write the blog this weekend. But please don't presume that I agree with some of your central premises. I certainly don't expect Al Davis to perform like a marionette at the end of media puppet master strings.

11:27 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Take, I'm not willing to come to conclusions without any evidence. I don't know who JMac's source is. He says he trusts the source, but he hasn't given me any basis for me to trust the source other than his say so. I do know that the source appears to be at least mistaken, if not lying. What is the position of this person? Trusted executive, hall secretary, messenger, water boy? I'm not very concerned if a water boy lies to get some attention from a reporter. I don't view that as a serious problem, no. Tell me why, definitively, I should be concerned about this "source."

11:33 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Blanda- Kiffin all but stated he wanted Ryan out at the end of the season. Most (if not all) of us believed that to be true even before the media grabbed onto the story.

As for 40+ years of handling the media the same, clearly, tradition is hard to break. But in the wake potentially the most destructive rumor fest in 40+ years, perhaps it's time for more contemporary thinking in terms of public relations.

Business as usual doesn't appear to working on or off the field right now.

Raiders have a website, right? I made the suggestion earlier that maybe they could do a little story on how Kiffin is behind the scenes working his off-season program... even if it's not true. At least that would appease the fans (forget the media).

Instead, they use the website during the off-season to review cheerleader tryouts, not that there's anything wrong with that :)

11:50 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Blanda:

I think that Ryan should have been shown the door. Just as Tom Cable has demonstrated, an upgrade at the coordinator position can make a world of difference. As of right now, and until Ryan proves me wrong, I think it was a mistake to keep him. I'm sorry you don't agree.

I think that Calico Jack's points about the negative impacts of this perceived turmoil are spot on, as it regards to attracting talent, fans and revenue. Whether or not the team acted this way 40 years ago is immaterial to whether or not the situation is being mishandled today. I'm sorry you don't agree.

Because I think that these two situations have been mishandled, I see them as impediments to progress, not acts of progress. I'm sorry you disagree.

I can't be any more clear than this. Please join me in speaking clearly.

11:54 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

nyraider, Kiffin didn't say anything of the sort. When Kiffin was asked specifically about Ryan, all he was willing to give up was that "everything will be reviewed." Period!

There is ONE thing, and ONE thing only that gives this crap more legs than the idiocy of the past. 19-61. Without that number, you would be joining me in calling the media out on this story. The same for Calico.

The way I see it, the Raiders conducting business as they always have, notably in their winningest years, I refuse to identify as the reason for 19-61. Something different is responsible for 19-61, and that's what I'll address this weekend.

As for Calico's concerns, I'll believe those are legitimate when team executives, agents, and league executives say they are refusing to take calls from Al Davis or Lane Kiffin.

12:09 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Of course 19-61 makes a difference.

Are we really going back to that discussion? Who should be happier right now, Giants or Dolphins fans? Who has the slimmer margin for error? Which team can least afford impediments to progress? When do you celebrate, after winning or losing? If we were 61-19, it would have been the result of a strong coaching regime, not a coaching carousel that is a huge part of the issues at hand.

Honestly, can we stay on topic? This is getting ridiculous.

Ryan might switch to the 3-4. This is what we did 40 years ago. If we weren't 19-61. Come on.

12:17 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Take, how have I left the topic? Are we not talking about "rumors," "Ryan," losing seasons. Are you reading my posts, or just assuming what I said?

But I'll throw in a nice little Stephen Colbert quote. "A single unsubstantiated report is meaningless, but add them all up and it's true!"

12:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can the topic be the cheerleaders?
Just wondering. -Psycho

12:27 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

The topics are (1) whether or not we think it's a mistake to have retained Ryan, considering the state of our defense; (2) whether or not the destructive rumor mill has been mishandled by the organization (which is different than whether or not it's fair that this media rumor mill exists in the first place, and which has nothing to do with 40 years ago or IF we hadn't gone 19-61, because we did go 19-61); and (3) whether or not these two big issues of the day are impediments to or acts of progress.

Honestly, I don't see what's so complicated about these topics, or what's so scandalous about my conclusions about them.

Everything I've been saying for the past two days is specifically related to these issues and my opinions/conclusions about them, and not all the other tangents that have been introduced to confuse these issues.

In fact you even admit to sort of agreeing with my conclusions, while, of course disagreeing with them.

P.S. Yes, add Raiderettes to that list. The SI swimsuit issue while we're at it.

12:40 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"SOB"...

I for one have posted in support of him all along and will not retract from that now...His plan is the 3-4 but he did not have the horses to run it early on...I believe the problem ly's in the "O" and the "D" has NO confidance in it so they have to play conservitive so they don't give up the big play and allow a large leed that the "O" can't come back against....

To fix the "D" we need to produce a strong "O" that can score everytime it touches the ball....Thus my desire for big a play WR-RB like Fitz-n-McFabulous...

"Mediot"s....

It has always been "Us Against the World" mentality with the Raiders and I for one LOVE that relationship....So why the hell should it change now into some "We need good PR from the front office" "PussyAss" invironment...NOT...

The problem now as I see it is that too many RaiderFans have now bought into the "Mediot"s to the point that they start digesting their "Crap"...And we start fighting amongst ourselves because some buy in and others hold onto old ways and do not buy in....and fans become deeply agitated by the words of the "Mediot"s and please don't try to tell me you are not all "Agitated"....I know I am...and now you demand the team come out and settle your stomics...

Sense when did we start relying upon the "Mediot"s to dictate how we should feel about our team...

And as for the Raiders commenting upon the issues of the day they do it threw their own channels and have done so for a long long time...Just as in OakTown when all the "Crap" was going around about moving south....Jim Otto who was the head of the Stirring Committie of the Raiders Booster Clubs came around to the clubs and talked directly to the fans...We also got direct input from several players who would regularly come and share time with us and the CheerLeaders who would visit...

I have written to the Internet Boosters of the Oakland Raiders and asked for clarification on the issue of whether Kiffen will remain with the team....If they have inside information I expect they will reply....Until then or until there is a definate comment from the organization it-self I for one will continue to find joy in being who I am....a Raider...

PantyRaider....HardCore!!!!

12:58 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

"The topics are (1) whether or not we think it's a mistake to have retained Ryan, considering the state of our defense;"

In order for me to answer that fairly, I'd have to know what was discussed on the inside (i.e., what was discussed regarding personnel and in defense of Ryan). I can't know that. And neither can you. Nor do I believe we should be told what those discussions were. What is important for me as a fan is that they fix the defense. If they believe it can be fixed and retain Ryan, so be it as long as I can see some results in pre season. I have been given no real basis to conclude that Kiffin's ideas are not being seriously considered - and that brings us back to the subject of the press. Doesn't it?

"(2) whether or not the destructive rumor mill has been mishandled by the organization (which is different than whether or not it's fair that this media rumor mill exists in the first place, and which has nothing to do with 40 years ago or IF we hadn't gone 19-61, because we did go 19-61);"

I think I've pretty plainly stated that the Raiders are handling the rumor mill just as they always have. So if they are mishandling it, they have always mishandled it. I can say with confidence that the way the Raiders have always handled rumors has nothing to do with 19-61 over the last five years. If you are going to credit 19-61 to the way Davis handles the rumor mill, you have to give him credit for three Super Bowls handling the rumor mill exactly this way.

"and (3) whether or not these two big issues of the day are impediments to or acts of progress."

How can anyone know? Yes, there are people who will anonymously say that they want to avoid the Raiders. They say that anonymously so they'll still get the call, if it comes. Have you seen anyone go on the record as saying they won't take Davis' phone calls? Name one. Crickets. The only one I know of who remotely approaches that is Randy Moss. Randy claims that the Raiders "mistreated" him. You really want front Randy as the expert?

1:03 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

"If you are going to credit 19-61 to the way Davis handles the rumor mill, you have to give him credit for three Super Bowls handling the rumor mill exactly this way."

The way things are going lately, I just know that someone is going to attempt to say that I mean Davis' handling of the rumor mill in Super Bowl years led to their victories. No. The quote is called "ironic." I mean to say that how Davis handles the rumor mill has absolutely nothing to do with whether they are winning or losing. Whether they are winning or losing is only fodder for how much credence people are willing to give to it.

1:24 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

RT:

I now have a question....and I am NOT trying to raddle your cage...

Why are we being held to speak upon a spicific topic as in the (3) topics you outlied...in the past we have been all over the board with comments....What has changed....Is it because you have become deeply disturbed by what has been developing....

Let me assure you the 1981 Raiders were much more disturbing to the fan base than this stupid "Crap"...the move south sent many a fan scampering across the bay bridge to join the SadFranchiseWinners and become life long "Hatetripper" against "MrD" and the team....Now tell me plaese how you expect this topic to "Shatter" the fan base and distroy the team....

I thought it was about whether we still have a coach and if we should retain him....

PantyRaider....Confused!!!!

1:33 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Blanda:

Well, now we're getting down to business! Thank you.

1. I have an opinion about Ryan, and I have expressed it, and opinions (or takes) is what this blog is all about. You reserve your right not to have an opinion about Ryan, because you want more information. I respect that. However, I see nothing scandalous (or hateful or traitorous or panic stricken) about having an opinion that we could/should do better at DC than Ryan based on recent performance, and expressing that opinion on a blog called Raider Take. Awful performances often have consequences for coaches. Goes with the territory.

2. That may be the way the Raiders have always done it. I don't think it's helping right now, and if anything it's hurting. That's my take. It's a big story. To ignore it would be weird, and to not have an opinion would be as well. Saying that's the way they've always done it is irrelevant to my own independent conclusion that the situation is being mishandled by the team. Why can't I draw that conclusion?

3. How can anybody know if this stuff is an impediment to or act of progress? Again, this is a place for takes and opinions. I could refute any opinion or conclusion with "how do you know for sure?" I do know that nobody has given me a good reason why I should be excited about the return of Ryan or how this perceived turmoil could actually be helping anything. If they could, I might come to different conclusions.

What I'm seeing here is that you and Gary are getting really angry about me having what I consider reasonable, independent opinions about very specific issues. On a blog, no less.

It's almost as if you're more angry about that than you are about my actual opinions. It's very strange to me.

Then all these tangents are introduced in response to my opinions, and I respond reiterating my case to combat all the mischaracterizations resulting from these tangents, and suddenly I'm told I'm panic stricken and hateful, when really I'm just trying to set the record straight and stay on topic.

1:33 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

PantyRaider, good point, let me clarify.

I'm not suggesting that you stick to these topics.

I'm saying that these are the topics I've commented on, and which have been responded to with all sorts of unrelated tangents and "what ifs" and name calling, which have the debilitating effect of mischaracterizing what I'm saying (and who I am as a fan).

Consequently, I'm forced to force the issue and repeat that if someone is going to argue with me about what I'm saying, then please at least stick to the topic I'm on and what I've actually said.

All I'm doing is defending what I consider some very basic and reasonable conclusions, and my right to make these conclusions, which some seem to have a problem with.

What might look like me obsessing about these topics is simply me responding and clarifying to what I consider mischaracterizations.

I welcome new topics, and I know that you will help introduce some new ones.

1:47 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Take, I think you're taking things a bit to personally, especially since I stated previously that I wasn't accusing you specifically of the disrespect. That's why I asked if you were actually reading my posts. I'm not criticizing you. You tend to back up your opinions even if I don't agree.

But you have to admit that some very low brow arguments have been made recently (again, not by you).

If I have a complaint at all about you, it would be for getting a little overly snippy when someone disagrees with your conclusions on issues where NONE of us know the definitive answer.

Consider. If I didn't like you, or your site, I wouldn't spend so much time here. But I certainly don't (at least not yet) know what's happening on the inside, the ramifications, or what the Raiders might be planning. I do know that always, in the past, when there has been a dispute within the organization, positions get expressed by "someone close to Davis" or "someone close to Kiffin." We haven't heard a damn thing to give any indication of the thinking on the inside. Sorry, but I have no faith in JMac's trusted source who was 180 degrees wrong.

1:53 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

RT...OK I understand....

I know this subject is very disturbing to many of the fans....I have taken the only action I can to clear it up...I contacted the Booster Clubs and I sent an e-mail to the Raiders asking them for clarification....if an answer comes it will be posted on this board either by the Raiders or by me....

feedback@raiders.com
prez@orib.org Internet Boosters

PantyRaider....

2:12 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

And I do find this interesting. It's from JMac...

"– Had a nice chat with Lane Kiffin at the Hyatt Saturday before he decided he wouldn’t speak on the record regarding all things Raider, but apparently was asleep for the real show well after midnight. Sac Bee beat writer Jason Jones spotted Kiffin at a cigar bar called Nicky Blaine’s and nearby nightspot Ike & Jonseys. According to the Atlanta-Journal Constitution blog, Kiffin was even seen 'cutting the rug' at the latter establishment."

What I find interesting is that he mentions this "chat," but provides no further insight regarding the Davis/Kiffin rumors. You'd think he might offer a take on what Kiffin's demeanor was presenting. He's had one full post since, with absolutely no discussion on the imminent Kiffin release and Lofton succession. No impressions from Kiffin whatever? Only that Kiffin seemed to be having a good time in his off hours. Curious.

2:12 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

I appreciate that Blanda, and I agree that I sometimes type too fast and sound too strident.

I get particularly snippy when I feel that my argument is being mischaracterized. I'll say I think that the rumor mill is being mishandled by the organization to the detriment of progress, next thing I know I'm Peter King's twin brother? That gets my goat.

On that note, if JMac's (and Jason Jones') sources are wrong, and if they're lying, then the team has a problem with lying leakers, does it not? Another problem that needs fixing. Why all these rats on the ship? Doesn't sound very functional.

2:19 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Sometimes you can ascertain that a "source's" input is actually real. Ultimately, it's hard to tell, but the first clue is that the assertion isn't overcome by facts (such as Kiffin had no knowledge that Lofton would be hired).

I'm not sure I remember who wrote the article, but I believe it was Jason Jones. I think he reported last month that an inside source told him that there was never anything personal between Ryan and Kiffin. The source said that the two had disagreements, but it wasn't over coaching or personalities, it was over scheme. The source went on to say that he/she had no information as to any actions taken by Davis in regard to the disagreement.

Now, that seems to me like something a real source would say. It also comports with facts on the ground and what we've heard come out of Ryan, and out of the Raiders in general. While I haven't fully reached my conclusions, this leads to the conclusion that Kiffin never had any thoughts of firing Ryan, and the internal arguments were about changing the system - not the defensive coordinator.

2:31 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Yes, Blanda, but on this matter, we are like two ships passing in the night.

Let me clarify: I've never said these team sources might not be lying. What bothers me is the fact that these sources are either lying or not. Big distinction. If they're lying, it's bad. If they're not, it's bad.

Who are these sources, and why are they spreading lies, if that's what they are? Regardless if they're a waterboy or a CFO, it's harmful and divisive.

Companies and oganizations that are disciplined, healthy, unified, organized and functional do not have employees persistently running around undermining their employers.

The Raiders may not have had a progressive approach to media relations for the past 40 years, but since when do they allow so many rats on the ship, or foster an environment in which the rats multiply?

Shell v. Lombardi is the most public example of this, but it's still rampant on the "unnamed" front. I don't remember this being the Raider Way. It's a sign of dysfunction. Why should we excuse it? Why shouldn't we expect the house to be in order?

2:53 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Take, all fair questions. It's not that I don't see your argument. In fact, it's very reasonable. However, I feel that such has really always been true. Crap has always been dished on this scale. The point I was making earlier is that if we weren't 19-61 over the last five years, folks here would be looking at it the same way they always have. People don't pay any attention to the crap if the team is winning. And if top-tier players don't want to play for the Raiders, I'd suggest that 19-61 has more to do with it for a player who wants to end his career in a Super Bowl.

That said, consider the result if Davis answered the BS. The Raiders did that with Shell, only to be told they were lying - and if they didn't fire Shell it would be only because Davis wanted to prove Schefter wrong. The best that Davis can hope for in debunking this story is to debunk it on the field. (And this does have something to do with what I'll write over the weekend.)

If there is truth to the story (IF), consider Davis' problem if, after 19-61 and telling the world that he was going to fix the problem, he went before the public without a functional solution in place. I guarantee you under those conditions the press would say far worse things. So, if this does exist, and so far I don't believe that it does (for many reasons), we are not going to hear from Davis regarding anything but the solution. He will not tell us that he has a problem that he doesn't know how to fix.

You identify this as the biggest rumor to ever infect the team. That's my point from earlier as well. It's not. Certainly constantly telling fans the team was going to move back to LA, even relating "inside sources" with reporting that teams had been sent to LA to discuss the move, had a much harder impact on selling the team than who their head coach was going to be.

And to be clear, Jones and McDonald have each related only one "inside source." Jones' provided some reasonable information that didn't agree with what was being reported. McDonald's "source" gave us a whole new fantasy on the situation.

Also, there are always lower-tier employees who are going to relay BS to see if what they say gets reported in the paper. It depends on the reporter to vet the source, and that's something reporters now days refuse to do. It's just too much work.

So from the local press, I've seen two inside sources with opposite things to say - which means only one of them is lying. From the national media, all the sources are "someone familiar with the Raiders," or something along those lines. That identification could be Lombardi for all we know. And it likely is.

3:30 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Added:

I believe that when Schefter reported that the decision had been made to fire Shell, no such decision had been made. I believe that it was certainly being discussed, but the decision had not yet been made.

The report was filed after it became clear that Shell's internal squabbles were with Lombardi. I feel that the report was filed for Lombardi's aggrandizement, since Schefter is tight with Lombardi. The purpose of that report was not so much to belittle Al Davis as it was to tell the world that Lombardi was vindicated in not wanting Shell to be hired.

I'm not certain what the motive for all of this recent crap is. It could be as senseless as assuring the fans the team will leave town right after it moved back, or it could be vindictive on Schefter's part because Al called him a liar.

3:46 PM  
Anonymous memdf said...

Blanda-

I don't know if the Shell situation comparison is a valid one. The place was a mess, we knew it and the press certainly knew it also. 10 sacks in the first game, B&B OC, 3 hour practices...

If AD has always run things his way, why did this communication or perceived internal conflict not manifest itself when chuckie and (defacto gm) allen were around?

4:38 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

This whole thing is like a Twilight Zone episode. We’re all trapped in some parallel universe where the Raiders are a benevolent organization, and Raider Image is an oxymoron.

What profit enterprise can survive without public relations? It’s not like the Raiders have put a product on the field that sells itself (they're not selling gasoline). Has arrogance completely taken over, for better or worse?

Calico Jack made an excellent point. He stated, “This (lack of communication) has harmed our ability to grow our fan base. Besides playing crappy football for the past 5 years, don't you think young fans who are on the fence might pause before dedicating themselves to the Raiders?”

Absolutely!

Does it make sense to anyone that the Raiders entire off-season be a covert operation, despite a loyal fan base that’s starving for some sign that a pulse exists? Who does Al Davis think he is, Willy Wonka?

4:45 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

memdf, I think I know what you're asking, so correct me if I don't address your question.

It seems to me that what you're asking depends on a fact that I never believed existed in the first place. And that is that Al Davis controls everything (from the way practices are run, to the draft). At least since the end of the Flores era, Davis has not involved himself to that degree. Coaches have been free to run practices and schemes according to their own wishes. In fact, Davis has hardly been seen at a practice in years. And when he does show up it's usually just to talk shop with the players and coaches, not to coach or deliver instructions.

That's part of what I'll talk about over the weekend. I think some may be surprised by what I have to say.

4:52 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

nyraider, to some degree it does benefit them to be covert. Virtually every team hangs on to that to a certain extent. The Raiders are clearly among the most secretive.

And in most instances I'd say that Calico's words are well taken. And you are correct that the winning over many decades has led to a certain amount of arrogance. But the fact is that a football team doesn't really need a PR department if they are consistently winning. Winning is it's own reward. And I fully expect that the way Al currently views the situation is that he'll answer the current skeptics by winning again.

Addressing that "arrogance," what causes it, and how the team should proceed will be part of what I say this weekend.

5:00 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

How did the rumor get started that SOB was fired...

You need to remember back to the end of the season and the speculation that Kiffin's dad would be free from TB...which he was not....but he had come out and said he did not want the "Job"....but there was no indication that the "Job" was ever offered...it was all just speculation and wishful thinking...so he re-signed with TB but the rumors were already started and no one came out in denial so it spred like a "WildFire" in a wheat field...Than other speculations were added to it and on and on it grew...

So now everyone is running around like a bunch of "HeadlessChickens" trying to get the goods on the Raiders or crying "Abandon Ship" the crew is dysfunctional...

I personally think there are alot of dysfuntional fans this off season who are on the virge of just giving up...So now would be a good time to remember back to what was preached last year....

"We are not just re-loading as in the past...we are re-building the franchise"...

Now we find out that re-building is a painful experiance that Raider Fans are not used to...but all the other teams in the freakin NFL have had to go threw it and they still have fans in the end...the question that some of you need to answer is....

"Will We"...

PantyRaider...For-da-LongHall!!!!

5:48 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

http://www.mercextra.com/blogs/buzz/2008
/02/27/kiffin-denies-dancing-avoids
-tap-dance-with-al/

Please read this and tell me that Kiffin is in hot water with the freaken Raiders....

What a Joke....and everyone's up-set...

PantyRaider...Just-Laughin-Baby!!!!

6:00 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Thank you, PantyRaider.

Go to the link folks, and read it to the very end. It's quite comical and very weird.

6:37 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

LOL! Can we get Kiff's wife to question his relationship with Al Davis?

6:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
NY you nailed it about not growing the fan base anymore. Outside of the San FRan or LA area, there are no little kids pulling for the Raiders, learning to love them like we did. Ask an eleven year old about the Raiders and he'd say we suck. We don't even try to get new followers. Al is not doing anythimg well anymore... poor scouting, poor personnel evaluations, poor strategy, shoddy management, poor PR ... failing all the way around.
Hey I see my homeboy from Georgia MArcus Howard is the fastest DE at the combine. Well, damn... we might pick up someone I like! Marcus is going to take his one man Hawaii massacre and a great forty time and actually get drafted.

7:19 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

A very interesting discussion.

So "Captain Strident" doesn't write me up a ticket for getting off topic (J/K RT!), here is my view on the 3 central topics:

The topics are (1) whether or not we think it's a mistake to have retained Ryan, considering the state of our defense;

Yes it was a mistake to retain Ryan based on the performance of the D and other underlying factors.

Kiffin came in and hired, what, 13 new offensive coaches. The offense made considerable strides. The D returned all 11 starters from the 2006 campaign and lays an egg. Since typically a Head Coach has the authority to hire his own staff, I would have liked to have seen a new DC that Kiffin hand selected come in and shake things up.

For the record, and in my opinion only, Kiffin wanted to release Ryan and hire the hotshot DB Coach from Tampa to be his new DC.

(2) whether or not the destructive rumor mill has been mishandled by the organization (which is different than whether or not it's fair that this media rumor mill exists in the first place, and which has nothing to do with 40 years ago or IF we hadn't gone 19-61, because we did go 19-61);

Yes, the destructive rumor mill was poorly handled. It should have been decisively squashed in the simplest and most direct fashion; Al Davis goes on the record and says the following:

"The rumors about Lane Kiffin not coming back as our Head Coach in 2008 are categorically false. I support Lane's efforts to return the Raiders to greatness."

Done. Move along folks. Nothing to see here.

Use this quick declarative statement as an opportunity to reinvigorate the Raider Nation and put a lot of loyal fan's minds at ease.

(3) whether or not these two big issues of the day are impediments to or acts of progress.

The above 2 blunders are impediments to progress but for different reasons.

Blunder #1 (retaining Ryan) will be difficult to gauge until (a) we know what new additions in personnel are brought on board via Free Agency & the Draft (b) we see if there are any changes in scheme/defensive philosophy (c) the real games commence and performance is reviewed. In my view, this blunder is correctable and a "work in progress"

Blunder #2 is the bigger blunder and is frankly inexcusable. This blunder can be far more damaging in the short and long term.

First and foremost, having your HC twist in the wind and viewed as a "lame duck" HC shows a lack of leadership, foresight, class, and business acumen.

The trickle down affect of not stopping this rumor dead in its tracks impacts some rather important elements to a successful franchise. Such as:

(1) Public Relations
(2) Good business practices
(3) Media Relations
(4) Marketing
(5) Player Relations
(6) Fan Relations
(7) Ability to recruit FAs and future Raider coaches

2 other quick points:

The rumor going around the combine is that Jim Mora Jr. is lining up Knapp, Cable, and Rathman to join his staff in 2009 when he becomes the HC for the SeaChickens. All 3 coaches have a relationship with Mora (Atlanta, SF) and 2 year contracts with the Raiders.

To my old chum, BlandaRocked:

I am awaiting your blog entry with bated breath. From your hints, it sounds like a real page turner! Please do us all a favor and hold nothing back. We want the unfiltered BR ... no cream or sugar!

8:27 PM  
Anonymous Gary said...

>>>>
NY Raider: What profit enterprise can survive without public relations? It’s not like the Raiders have put a product on the field that sells itself (they're not selling gasoline). Has arrogance completely taken over, for better or worse?
>>>>

If it isn't apparent to everyone by now... the Raiders have some of the most loyal fans in all of sports.

80% of the people here seem to HATE the Raiders organization because they haven't delivered enough wins for them lately, and yet come here and other places to whine (cough) discuss the Raiders nearly every day during the off season. The Raiders merchandise sales is near the top every year, and was still number one after losing 10 of 12 games in 2004.

http://tinyurl.com/2r85n6

The Raiders are one of the most popular sports franchises in the world... is this really a surprise to anyone here?

And you think Al needs a lesson in PR? Okee dokee!!

8:55 PM  
Anonymous Gary said...

>>>>
Blanda: No impressions from Kiffin whatever? Only that Kiffin seemed to be having a good time in his off hours. Curious.
>>>>


Was he wearing Raider gear? Did he have a Raider playbook in hand at the bar? Did the girls he was dancing with wear any black and silver?

This is becoming Raider paparazzi!!

9:06 PM  
Anonymous Gary said...

>>>>
Outside of the San FRan or LA area, there are no little kids pulling for the Raiders, learning to love them like we did.
>>>>


Lol... whaddafuckever. I've seen people throw fairy dust around before but cmon.


My ex-GF's daughter emailed me out of the blue after years to tell me she was going to a "Raider-101" camp this year in Oakland... I didn't even know she followed football.

I'm from South Dakota. She told me she started liking them because I did.

The Raider Nation will be as strong as ever.

You guys are frigging grasping at straws.

9:13 PM  
Anonymous Gary said...

>>>>
What I'm seeing here is that you and Gary are getting really angry about me having what I consider reasonable, independent opinions about very specific issues. On a blog, no less.
>>>>

Actually I get angry when you pretend you make reasonable arguments when all you are doing is getting pissed because the Raiders aren't giving you enough information (when they have NEVER given any information) and not winning enough games for you.


Thats it. Thats the list. This discussion would not be happening if the Raiders were 7-9, or 8-8 last year.

Tell me I am wrong.

9:19 PM  
Anonymous Gary said...

>>>
Have you seen anyone go on the record as saying they won't take Davis' phone calls? Name one. Crickets. The only one I know of who remotely approaches that is Randy Moss. Randy claims that the Raiders "mistreated" him. You really want front Randy as the expert?
>>>


The entire farce of this all is that it's pretty well known that Al is a "players owner". He's got 40+ years of history behind him as treating his players like royalty.

The IAAFers are desperately trying to spin this as the apocalypse because that is what they are staking their reputation on.

In the end... with 20 million dollars of cap dollars to spend... Al will again sign lots of top-notch FA's, Kiffin/Al will do another outstanding job of drafting, and the IAAFers will suddenly pretend none of their moronic assertions were ever made.

Bank on it.

9:25 PM  
Anonymous Gary said...

>>>>
RT: We're talking about the news of the day here, because this is a daily blog, not the "we won a lot of games in 2002" blog or the "Rob Ryan MIGHT blitz someday" blog.
>>>>

I get it.

So I guess I should suddenly just discount all your ceaseless whining about how many games we have lost in the last five years as complete rubbish and focus on whats happening today?

Works for me.

Are you "all in" on it to?

9:33 PM  
Anonymous Gary said...

>>>>
memdf said...

Doom and gloom - How's this?

They draft McD, clearly an AD pick and Mendenhall tears up the league.
>>>>


Ironically, thats what most of the Al-haters want... picking McD.

Go figure????

[shrug]

9:36 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Speculation....I repeat this is only "Speculation"....

But could it be....

I sent e-mails to the Raiders Booster Clubs and to the Home office asking for some sort of clarification whether or not we still have a "HC"

and what happens....

The International House-o-Pancakes...I mean...the International Headquarters of the Raiders Organization makes a call to a "Mediot" who writes "Crap" and when she answers the phone guess who is talking to her...and in ridiculous riddles no doubt....like they are really playing with the "Mediot"s little minds....

So...Could it be that the call was in response to my request for some "Sign" that we still have a "HC"....He was at the facility...working I suppose...NOT packing his bags to leave in the morning...

PantyRaider....KiffinLives!!!!!

QB David Carr was released today....do you want him...

9:37 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

http://profootballexperts.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&nid=83&lnid=83&yr=2008

Up-dated list of available FA....

10:00 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Yeah, Gary, you're right, and I've said it over and over: the more losing, the less margin for error. It's common sense. So yes, I'm less tolerant of obvious blunders than I was two or three years ago. Why is that hard to understand? Why is that so scandalous?

You and Blanda like to base your arguments on the premise of "if" we hadn't racked up the worst five-year record in the past 30 years of the NFL.

Yes, and if Chernobyl hadn't melted down, it would be a nice little power plant.

Get real. We're dealing with the issues of the day here.

10:06 PM  
Anonymous Gary said...

>>>>
You and Blanda like to base your arguments on the premise of "if" we hadn't racked up the worst five-year record in the past 30 years of the NFL.
>>>>

Is that worse than pretending none of the mistakes are being fixed based solely on last years w/l record (and a lack of insider information)?

I think not.

Once again... this discussion would not be happening if we had pulled out more of those close games this year. Funny how nobody even bothers to deny this.

7-9 or 8-8 in one year means all things are well. 4-12 is the apocalypse.

7:02 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Gary, more sweeping generalizations, mischaracterizations, yawn...Guess it's all you've got at this point.

IF we'd won 3 or 4 more games last year, that would probably mean we didn't have one of the worst defenses in the NFL that never seemed to buck up at the right moment and secure the win, right?

Of course it makes a difference.

How many different ways can I admit something before you quit asking me to deny it? You're just running around like a beheaded chicken, shouting things.

Apocalyptic! Panic stricken! You're turning into the guy on the street corner wearing the sandwich board.

Yes, I guess I'm calling you names here. That's apparently the only type of discussion you want to have.

I and others have had very simple, easy-to-understand takes about the top issues of the day, such as whether or not we should have retained Ryan, and whether or not this perceived turmoil has been mishandled or not to the detriment of progress. It's not rocket science. It's blogging.

We would have probably dropped these topics by now if you didn't keep throwing bombs and cheap shots about them.

7:29 AM  
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