Thursday, February 14, 2008

Chuck and Stuff

Lane Kiffin isn’t fired.

James Lofton is hired.

Lane loves Rob, Al loves Lane, and Amy loves everyone.

Jarrod Cooper has a big heart for dogs.

Tyler Brayton is officially a free agent—calming my worries that we might franchise him.

Justin Fargas has signed.

Nnamdi’s getting tagged.

Former Raiders quarterback Josh Booty got Tasered.

Have I missed anything?

Oh, yeah: PantyRaider is back. And if you don’t know what that means, then you need to come around here more often.

It’s been relatively slow going on Raiders news recently, and perhaps no big news is good news, because the last time we had “big news,” it was of dubious detail, and only served to deliver an alarming spike in our collective blood pressure.

Meanwhile, over in Miami: “In the Dolphins’ first major player purge since Parcells took charge of Miami’s football operations, the team parted ways with Trent Green, wide receiver Marty Booker, defensive tackle Keith Traylor, right tackle L.J. Shelton and five other players—ushering in the start of what's expected to be a massive offseason roster shakeup by the rebuilding franchise.”

Say what you will about the Dolphins, but they’re sending their fans pretty strong signals of change, top to bottom. None of this “everyone gets a fresh start.” None of this “wait and see.” They aren’t remodeling. They’re razing the house and rebuilding an entirely new culture, from the executive offices through the locker room.

It’s a little late for that in Oakland. The time for that would have been last year, when Shell was shown the door and the stage was set for a massive overhaul.

I don’t point this out to be pessimistic, but rather just to be realistic, and to heckle those who say that swift, decisive and wholesale change can’t be telegraphed immediately following the end of a dreadful season.

Thankfully, we are undergoing our own form of overhaul under Lane Kiffin. Slowly but surely, the tide is being turned, the scholarships are being terminated, and aromas of mint are in the air.

Stopping the run and catching the ball are, in my opinion, our top concerns at the moment. Here we have our cannon loaded with Jamarcus Russell, but no one deep to catch the cannonball.

As for stopping the run, the defensive line is only part of the problem, which goes as deep as the safety position, if not deeper. On Sirius radio the other day, Daryl Johnston was talking about watching the tape from the Raiders-Vikings game last year, and remarking about our defense’s dreadful fundamentals and tackling. He wasn’t saying it in the manner of someone who had an axe to grind, but more like someone who’d happened upon a train wreck and had to tell some friends about it. I remember that game, and he’s right. Rob Ryan, you may not have a roster of Pro Bowlers at your disposal, but it’s your responsibility to ensure that basic fundamentals are respected and applied.

It comes down to “chuck and stuff.” Chuck the ball, stuff the run. These aren’t the sum total of our needs, but they are at the top of my list. At some point you have to triage and prioritize. We can't count on the draft or free agency. We need to work these needs hard through the draft and free agency. We need to be active, aggressive and focused, and I think we will be. Here we go again, because the future is now.

253 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Happy Valentines Day!!

glad to see no one cares(besides us) that the patriots have actually been filming since 2000, luckily everyone is wrapped up in the Clemens deal and they are to busy to point out that Goodell first told us that it only went back to 2006, just one of what i believe to be many lies concerning this. Goodell is looking more and more like Officer Barbrady from South Park "Move along people nothing to see here, move along"

im glad to see Fargas to be rewarded for his team first attitude, i worry about injuries with him, but im glad to see us reward a team guy who actually deserves it for a change.

ekgraider

10:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great take, Take.

Psycho

10:46 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

We didn't make any significant changes last off season? Huh? We turned over more of our roster than any team in the league, replace our entire offensive coaching staff (in addition to the HC), and changed over many in the front office. In fact, last off season we resembled Miami in this off season. My how quickly people can forget things after going 4-12.

If Miami only manages 4-12 this year will you talk about how they really didn't do anything to change their fortunes?

Other than that, great take, as usual.

11:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

H said...

Couldn't agree more on most points. However, in the Dolphin's case Parcells was moving from an NFL analyst job as opposed to a college coordinator's job.

Not an excuse for what happened, it's just that Parcells definitely had a leg up going in. He watched Miami every week along with 31 other teams. He knows as much about every coach and player in the league as anyone.

I'm with you on the tackling. What I will never understand is how a player could make it this far and still be a poor tackler.

Now, if Miami starts slow, what's the over/under on how long before the media starts talking about Parcells coming down from the owners suite to take over the coaching?

H

11:29 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Well, Blanda, I don't want to rekindle any bad blood here, but there's no question that the Dolphins have been much more swift and decisive in the wake of their 1-15 year than we were in the wake of our 2-14 year.

Lane Kiffin was hired on January 23 last year. The Dolphins already had a new VP of football operations, a new GM and a new coach well in place by January 23 of this year. Player cuts were not nearly as deep and swift as what we're seeing in Miami. We still don't have a GM, save for Al Davis. We do still have our same defensive coordinator.

And if the Dolphins go 4-12, I will applaud them for getting to 4-12 in a manner that really bodes well for establishing a strong foundation and a new culture.

I wish I could be like you and feel that the Raiders have been equally aggressive about changing a culture of losing. My heart would like to go there, but my head won't let me.

But I'm ready to move on, and embrace change and progress in whatever form it comes, and I'm excited about what lies ahead.

11:57 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Take, it's just that your current disappointment (actually now I can't tell if you're disappointed or excited) isn't reflected in your "minty fresh" posts from last off season. There was nothing, however, that the Raiders did last off season that would cause me to believe that the media would approach the team any differently.

On a different note, the news from yesterday pretty much confirms that the Pasties cheated in every one of Billicheats Super Bowls. Not too big a problem for Goodell, since he fully accepted the "I didn't know it was against the rules" defense.

Goodell also states that it was the league who blew the whistle on the Pasties. Eh, not so fast. I have this problem where I remember things. Like, for instance, I remember that the Pasties got caught because a Jets assistant coach saw their guy filming and called the stadium security. Then security had the cameraman play the tape in the booth to see what he was filming. It is at that point that the league was called, simultaneously as word got out in the press.

But Goodell says he has nothing to hide, and he'd destroy the tapes again. Spector says, however, that when you have an admission and the evidence, you keep the evidence. Goodell says that the tapes might leak out to the various teams. I guess he's never heard of safes.

12:13 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

this is just my opinion, obviously. i would be working toward this goal.
possibility moves we could be waiting to make:
signing booker at receiver, and letting porter walk. then trading for chad johnson june 1st or after, putting curry back at #3.
we need to sign hayneworth, leaving us the possibility to also cut turd sands, and drafting soh, sedric ellis, glenn dorsey, or jake long.

or we can skip booker altogether and draft mario manningham, and still trade for chad johnson; who isn't going anywhere until june 1st because the bengals lose $8 million in the cap if they move him before.

i'm concerned that we aren't making any moves yet, but maybe we have a plan in place to make the moves when the moving becomes available. just a thought.

another thought, the dolphins are stupid.

12:20 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

I was excited about signing Randy Moss, too. Should I then just stick to the position that Randy Moss was great for the Raiders, despite all evidence to the contrary? Same goes for last year. I was feeling minty fresh. But in retrospect, I see that it would have been better to cut more losses sooner, and to import more experienced executive authority. If I'd known what I know now, I might not have been so minty. I'd rather be accurate than consistent.

And yes, I was sorely disappointed with 4-12, and especially the manner in which we ended the season with some severe butt kickings. Just like Lane Kiffin.

I'm feeling pretty good about 2008. I'm not going to say I fell like an Altoid. But maybe some spearmint gum. Time heals wounds. Spring brings hope.

12:26 PM  
Blogger StickUm25 said...

Good points RT, but a couple of additions. Why isn't the media slamming on the Dolphins for cutting Green & Booker afer getting them so recently? Wouldn't the Raiders be slammed for doing the same thing? Shouldn't there be a clamor for change at the top, now that the Dolphis are going on their 3rd coach in 3 years, 4th in the last 5? If you chew on that a bit, maybe the perspective changes . . .

I think it's great that they have a new staff in place, but that's the benefit of getting Parcells. He gets carte blanche, has a definite system in place, and has people in the league that understand it. That's a far cry from how Kiffin came into the league. Are the hirings of Cable, Knapp, Rathman, etc any less impressive, or do they have less of an impact, because they happened a bit later in the offseason? I think not - it's obviously more important to get the right people. I do think Parcells is an anomaly - just look at how long it has taken some other teams to put staffs together this offseason.

As for the cuts, I would like to see Jordan, Stu, etc, gone as much as the next guy. However, if you can get a 4th for Jordan, a 6th for Stu, etc, why not hang on to them until the draft? It might make us feel better to see some action, but if the response to Brayton is any indication, maybe not. I'll reserve my optimism / pessimism until we get to training camp . . . but god, I do hope they get a front 7 that can TACKLE!

12:41 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I'm optomistic, but perhaps only for the sake of wishful thinking. I really can't say I feel strongly that "all is well" between Davis and Kiffin, SOB and Kiffin, and that these critical individuals are on the same page heading into free agency, the draft and the 2008 season.

The advantage the Dolphins have is that one man is in charge. Arguably, the disadvantage that we have is that one man is in charge.

1:10 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

That's true. Miami now has one man in charge. Will he make the draft picks, forcing them on his new coach? Will he make the decisions regarding who gets cut and who stays? There's a reason that Bill Parcells, a great admirer of Al Davis, has never worked for Al Davis. Same with Denny Green.

Parcells has had great success in most places he's gone. But on the other hand, we've never seen Parcells take over a franchise that was having success. He has a long career of rebuilding failures. Davis, on the other hand, has a strong record in rebuilding his own failures (admittedly a little rocky since Callahan ran the Raider ship onto the rocks).

Wherever Parcells goes, he runs his ship the same way. The success is acknowledged, but he's never really been someplace long enough where we witness the ebbing and flowing of the tides. I view Parcells and Davis very similarly. While folks here might take exception to that, I know that Parcells would consider it quite a compliment.

Currently, the Raiders are doing what they normally do doing their successful times, and they've lowered the (as Jerry McDonald puts it) Maxwell Smart Cone of Silence. Three of the last four years focused on the hiring of a new HC, and the changes that each brought about. In the remaining year, we were revelling in the acquisitions of Moss and Jordan. Each of the four years was a failure.

I believe it is Kiffin who has brought back the Cone of Silence. In view of his reluctance to even name his starting QB each week, that makes sense to me.

Over the past several weeks we've seen the media unload stories with very little in the way of facts to support anything they've said. In fact, the facts repeatedly seem to fall in the opposite direction. We were told that Davis had rescinded all Kiffin involvement in the hiring of staff and personnel, and yet Kiffin interviewed replacements for two of his coaches, and they were hired. We were told that Kiffin really wanted to fire Ryan even though he never said that or even implied it.

And yet we have hand wringing, wondering just how damaged the Kiffin/Davis relationship is.

Well (and don't say this is a claim that Al never makes a mistake), I trust Al to build another winner. Just as I'd trust Parcells to build another winner. Green, eh, not so much...

1:34 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Now THIS is simply a MUST READ!!!!


http://www.theonion.com/content/news/patriots_season_perfect_for_rest

1:59 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

crap...

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/patriots
_season_perfect_for_rest

2:01 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

With the re-signing of Fargas, yesterday, a WR signing went under the radar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Watkins

We picked up Todd Watkins off waivers from Atlanta. At one time in his college career, Watkins was called the best deep threat in the nation. He's 6'3" and can bench press 326 pounds (in other words he can bench press Warren Sapp), and he has 4.26 speed.

However, in college and in the pros, he's had some trouble with with short precise routs, and hasn't been able to get open (at least in practices - he's had no NFL playing time as yet). This could be James Jett on the cheap, or it could be that Kiffin remembers something about Watkins from his USC days, and sees something others don't.

3:10 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Or, he's Mike Williams with speed. I wouldn't get too excited.

3:25 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Don't worry, nyraider. They didn't franchise tag him, they only claimed him off waivers. He didn't cost us anything and won't unless he makes the team.

3:38 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

Last year we were all campaynning for SOB to be our new head coach...What a differance a year makes...So why did he fall so far so rapidly and his "D" with him...

Speculation...DaPowerStrugle is still going...But would SOB take a fall just to undermine Kiffen in order to replace him when he just makes himself look bad...

Most Likely...SOB just got exposed and as Al said in "06" the "D" played well but not great...So it appears the "Old-Man" knew more about football and his coaches and team than the rest of us...Retro-Looking back and remembering what Al said is a good thing...He has not given up on SOB even though most of us have -n- he has not given up on his new leader who will bring the Raiders back to glory....(Kiffen)...

So I am not "MintyFresh" and I am NOT in "DaDumper"....I am "Wait-n-See" at this point...

There are tons of posibilities on the horizon....and another failure starring us in the face....

PantyRaider...RaiderFansStandTuff!!!

3:42 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Blanda- I'll give you that one. Very funny.

I was reading the wikipedia link you provided, and this guy is a regular jekyll and hyde at WR. One minute he's lighting up the score board, the next he's dropping rountine passes. Kiffin will either whip him into to shape or he'll be trading bubble gum cards with Mike Williams.

Depending on which player shows up, he seems capable of being a deep threat... something we don't have but desparately need to go with a QB that can throw 70 yards on one knee.

PantyRaider- very wise perspective. I'm in a wait and see mode myself.

KeepinDaFingersCrossed!

4:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

RT... there is one blatant thing you are ignoring in your comparison to Miami this year, and the Raiders of last year. Miami stunk out loud on both sides of the ball, and the Raiders had the 3rd ranked defense in the NFL... thus they thought that there were more things in place (I know, I know, there was a REASON why they were deceivingly ranked that high, which I agree with, but that is only 20/20 hindsite again).

This is why we kept every starter and the defensive coaching staff in place two years ago. Miami pretty much had to start over from scratch this year... a completely different situation.

The biggest change most of us wanted this season is SOB fired... which might have happened if Kiffin and Al weren't in some sort of convoluted childish pissing contest... they are BOTH to blame, IMO.

Its too early to judge any other changes.


---gary

4:53 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Gary, all fair points.

My only quibble would be that 20/20 hindsight is a luxury afforded to fans, not owners and executives. We don't get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to get these things right.

One of the reason the fans overestimated our defense is because those who should know better overestimated our defense.

Fans and executives don't share equal responsibility for organizational blunders.

If our execs had been paying closer attention, they might have come to the same conclusion as Miami, that we stunk on both sides of the ball. When you only win two games, that's not a stretch.

5:16 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I don't know RT... unless one of those wins was completely at the hands of the D... Pittsburgh.

On the other hand, how many 4th Qtr collapses does it take to realize something's not quite right? That became even more evident this year, yet here we are waiting to see if any change will be implemented on D.

I still have nightmares about our entire D line dropping back into coverage against Cleveland on that critical game-ending drive. Not sure I'll ever get over that one. Kiffin probably wanted to fire Ryan on the spot. I would have.

Gary said- "The biggest change most of us wanted this season is SOB fired... which might have happened if Kiffin and Al weren't in some sort of convoluted childish pissing contest... they are BOTH to blame, IMO."

Gary, IMO too. It almost sounds like you're bellyaching. Welcome to the club!

5:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NY... I've always been part of the club... the thing I am pointing out (repeatedly) is BALANCE.

And btw... speaking of which... this article is going to give the "IAAFers" and especially the "Grudenites" a HEART ATTACK!

http://tinyurl.com/ysz3nz


It's the best article I have read about why the Raiders fall from grace was so sudden and permanent... Gruden and Allen built their winning foundation on the sand of last gasp veterans and buried us up to our necks in it by extending so many contracts instead of using part of the money on building for the future (it mentioned we were still paying on GANNONS contract this past year.

A must read for any Raider fan, IMO.

---Gary

7:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

>>>
On the other hand, how many 4th Qtr collapses does it take to realize something's not quite right?
>>>>


Actually, from what I remember, the defense from two years ago rose to the occasion fairly routinely in holding the opponents offense late in the game (especially in short fields) the problem was, the offense was so pathetic, it didn't make any difference that the defense kept them in the game. If this years defense did as well, we coulda had 4 extra wins easily.

Kinda hard to predict that would happen, especially with nearly the entire defense still intact.

7:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From the article:


The easy cop out is to blame Al, as he is the one who is most responsible for player acquisition. Jon Gruden also was big on that philosophy, as was Bruce Allen. (more on him in a moment.) To show that it was not just Al, but Gruden’s inability to develop younger players, just take a look at the Tampa Bay Buccaneers under Gruden. It took him bringing in Jeff Garcia to fill the role of Rich Gannon and get the Bucs back in the playoffs.

Gruden and Al had a synergy in their love of giving aging vets their one last shot. It worked for the short term, but left the Raiders with a rotting core. The aging vets aged out together in 03 and Gannon had his career ended in 04, and no one was left waiting in the wings. True, Davis tried adding pieces to the puzzle, but there was no foundation and without a foundation, even the greatest skyscraper will come tumbling down.


---Gary

7:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

H said...

Gary,

You beat me to it this time. I think Blanda will agree, the article makes virtually the same points he and I have made the past several months about the Gruden era.

Now, it still won't convince most of the Davis Dumpers, but it does add more fodder for discussion here.

Here is a quote from the article that backs up the cap problems, "The Raiders had dead money from Gannon’s contract on the books until last year."

Actually, it's an opinion piece as opposed to an article, but it makes the comparison of Garcia/Gannon which I made last fall, and the problems with developing players for the future, which Blanda and I made last fall also.

I don't know Blanda, maybe Patrick Patterson is as old as us.

H

5:14 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

we have more cap room this year, and more money to spend because of the penny pinching from last season.
as pointed out by gary, the difference between kiffin and gruden is youth. we finally have been relieved of the salaries of gannon, barret robbins, mo collins, and t-wheat (all of whom were still under contract when they were injured and retired).
so i expect to make some balanced moves. we will get young players, with a balance of a few veterans to fill some voids. here's what i expect:
cuts/loss to fa: jordan, schweigert, sims (still on the roster), turd-ell sands, brayton, porter, jake grove, culpepper (still on roster), andrew walter, fabian washington, reshard lee, and fred wakefield.
signings: namdi, haynesworth, andre davis, max starks or nat dorsey.
trade: chad johnson
draft: soh, jake long, or sedric ellis.

6:08 AM  
Anonymous LK said...

RT-
Think you have it right only I would have written "stuff and chuck" just because the D needs seem much more compelling as far as winning goes, i.e., stop the run and tackle better. Long would have a huge impact in that he plays the run equally well as the pass...Ellis and Dorsey can clog the middle, which is helpful, but do nothing to solve the problem at RDE. There are no safeties who can support the run worth a shot in the first two rounds, so unless Lane has his eye on a reserve on someone's roster or has a mid-round prospect in mind, it's gonna be the Mike and Stu show again in 2008 [all the more reason to get in position to grab SOH]. LT is a position of need and Jake Long is a real possibility if SOH is gone... because DT is deep and we can get someone like Trevor Laws in Rd 2. Jake Long and Trevor Laws 1-2 is not bad, though it leaves Kelly/Richardson as RDE. If Porter comes back I'm not sure we wouldn't be just fine with the same WR corps given the emergence of Miller and more experience for Russell. If Porter leaves, there's WR options in FA and later in the draft---WR is not a concern to me because Russell will get better and we run the ball very well. Stuff and Chuck!

7:08 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gary's thoughts:

H, it was an interesting experiment... completely ignoring youthful players while picking up every quality veteran player available (and keeping every quality veteran player on roster at all costs). They damn near pulled it off! They were one Siragusa body dive from one ring, and Gruden himself from another. But the problem is that there was repercussions to it. I don't think it's a coincidence that this year will be the first time we have any substantial cap space since Gruden arrived.

This model is also completely opposite to the Bellichick model... where he keeps just a few key veterans on both sides of the ball and surrounds them with youngsters.

It's a much more cap friendly model because veterans come at such a huge cost.


And now for BALANCE... if Al hadn't drafted so horribly all along, the repercussions wouldn't have been so bad. It was particularly a huge mistake to keep trying to rely on veteran scrap heap QB's after Gannon went down, instead of going after a blue chip QB to build for the future... most of the blue chippers we coulda had turned out pretty good. The same year we got Gallery, there are now TWO QB's we coulda drafted that own rings.

Oh well... it seems Al has learned from the all-veteran mortgage-the-future gamble... and we should have a good mix of youth and veterans next year... and if JRuss turns to gold... much of this 5 year nightmare will be a distant memory. Much like most of the 90's right before Gruden arrived.

I think Kiffin knows what he has here... which is why he didn't just bolt when him and Al got into the insane pissing contest.

---Gary

7:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

H said...

He's an 11 year veteran, but it might be worthwhile to bring in Zack Thomas for a season or two to show our linebackers how to play the run.

Or, at least, get him on the roster and see what he looks like in camp. He difinitely knows how to tackle, but does he have anything left in the tank?

He was out when we play the fish last season.

H

7:46 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Somewhere out there on the the grassy knoll, Bruce Allen hired Tom Walsh and signed Randy Moss.

8:32 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Gary said...

"It's the best article I have read about why the Raiders fall from grace was so sudden and permanent... Gruden and Allen built their winning foundation on the sand of last gasp veterans and buried us up to our necks in it by extending so many contracts instead of using part of the money on building for the future (it mentioned we were still paying on GANNONS contract this past year."

Wow, that sounds familiar to me too, H. Wonder why nobody thought of that around here?

Also remember that Gruden, and then Callahan, seemed to have a problem giving playing time to the draftees. Both Porter and Curry had their development put on hold so Rice and Brown could get maximum playing time.

It created another problem as well that affected the team "attitude." With all those aging players, Gruden and Callihan dumped the work ethic. In camp, the aging veterans were given plenty of off days (where they didn't have to practice OR work with the new blood on their techniques).

They got away with that for awhile because of the insane work ethic of Rich Gannon, who was always on the field driving teammates. When Gannon went down, the party was over. The lost work ethic was firmly entrenched by the time Turner showed up. Turner lacked the leadership to change anything.

When Shell got here, he tried to change that culture, but was too out of touch with the current generation to inspire anything but antagonism. Shell tried to be the "tough guy" and everyone just shut down.

What I like about Kiffin, so far, is his ability to communicate with players, and his quiet authority. He voices his simple ethic. "Improvement, hard work, doing what is asked of you will gain you playing time. Lack of effort will first get you benched, and next get you cut."

Also, remember that Davis specifically said when he hired Kiffin that Kiffin would bring knowledge about college players and the younger players in the league. Davis understood the problem.

And until I see some sign of it, the Davis/Kiffin turmoil never happened outside a Timmy Kawakami wet dream. There has been absolutely no indication from the team that the problem ever existed, or anything that BSPN or others reported had any basis in reality.

8:39 AM  
Anonymous LK said...

Zach Thomas is cooked and he plays the same position as Morrison

8:41 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Yes, RT, your point is clear. Tom Walsh, who we know was actually hired by Art Shell ("because he knows what I want"), was the problem with 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007, because he was the Raiders' OC for 9 games in 2006.

8:47 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Tom Walsh and Art Shell, neither of whom were hired by Bruce Allen, were a huge part of the problem in 2006, which created major setbacks for 2007. As for 2004 and 2005, Norv Turner, Randy Moss and poor drafts were among the major issues for which Bruce and Jon were not responsible.

Those two may have created some lingering issues, but there's no way they're most responsible, in their own absence no less, for one of the worst five-year runs in the modern era of the NFL.

8:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

>>>>
Somewhere out there on the the grassy knoll, Bruce Allen hired Tom Walsh and signed Randy Moss.
>>>>

The Great Moss Gamble might have worked if we had a whole boat load of grizzled veterans so we coulda had a great team around him, but we didn't have the cap-room to do it, for one, and also, there weren't any veteran QB's worth a shit.

I think maybe the point should be that with Gruden/Allen/Al we had a perfect storm in a coach that would do anything to win NOW, a owner with the same attitude, and a GM that would manipulate the salary cap to make it happen.

I think Gruden tried to do the same thing in TB (remember all the last leg Raiders he kept bringing in early after his SB?) but quickly learned his lesson. The current Gruden/Allen TB team is now looking pretty young (which ironically is what Al is also doing).

Once again... it was a worth gamble... we almost pulled it off!!! But to pretend the veteran-only cap model didn't have later percussions is disingenuous.

Veterans come at a steeper price. Somehow you have to pay the piper... it's simple economics.

---gary

9:01 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

>>>
Those two may have created some lingering issues, but there's no way they're most responsible, in their own absence no less, for one of the worst five-year runs in the modern era of the NFL.
>>>>


They might not have been much responsible for the last two of it, but they sure as FUCK were directly responsible for the first three.

Most of the young players that would have helped the defense were CUT as cap casualties. Imagine what we coulda done with Barton, Rod Coleman, CWood, and Tory James (ok, not young, but he was a cap casualty) anchoring our defense the last five years? All those CB's we were drafting coulda went to other needs... and we woulda had an anchor DT all along.


---gary

9:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

H said...

Take,

I never wanted Moss, thought whoever did it Al, Norv or both was completely wrong. That was a dumb move from the getgo.

lk,

Al that is true, but I'm only suggesting they take a look. Someone needs to teach the linebackers how to play the run better.

Gary,

That's "alleged" pissing contest. The Raiders have neither confirmed nor denied the occurance of said pissing contest.

Blanda,

I think the guy was reading our post and just waiting long enough so it would seem like he did it on his own.

H

9:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the bottom line is that the Raiders problems started the same year they were reportedly THIRTY FIVE million over the salary cap.

It was Al's fault for not blowing up the team at that point, and Al's/Gruden's/Allens fault that they got to that point in the first place.

The first three years of failure were all at the mercy of the salary cap... what happened the last two years were at the feet of Al... and I assert the last year was the light at the end of the tunnel.

H, I think there is too much circumstantial evidence to deny there wasn't some sort of pissing contest between Kiffin and Al.

---gary

9:45 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

H, I actually saw somebody write an article about what Gruden and Allen were doing while they were still here, and the article said the chickens would come home to roost. Damn, I wish I could remember who wrote that.

At the time, it seemed very logical to me but I chose to look the other way because the Raiders were doing well. I said to myself that Davis would figure out a way past it, but he didn't. And I specifically remember that the guy who wrote the article said that it would eventually cost the Raiders about five years to a decade dwelling in the cellar.

Double damn, I wish I could remember who wrote it. Obviously it wasn't one of the usual suspects. Whoever it was was likely run out of the business for making sense.

9:52 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Before we all get hurt in a hail of F-bombs, how about tackling the issue of stopping the run, pun intended?

We've got arterial bleeding in this area, and we need some serious medical attention.

Hopefully we will find three or four new starters who can help fill the ability void, but what to do about this persistent lack of fundamentals with our existing players?

Are our guys just incapable of fundamentals, despite being deemed talented enough to start in the NFL, and/or do we have a serious coaching problem on that side of the ball?

9:58 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Take, good question. Fundamental football has been on the decline in Oakland since Callahan's second year. Personnally, I think lax camps contributed to that, and those continued through Turner. Shell tried to change it, but I think since Shell/Walsh were taking all the heat, the players just stopped trying. At least that's true on the offense. The players on the d side of the ball were getting respect, so they had to defend that respect - but then falling off again in 2007.

That said, we weren't always horrible last season. There were moments when the defense played smart, heads up football and covered their assignments well. As soon as they'd do it right in one game, the next game they'd get cocky and we were back to same old schtick. So, fairly, the question isn't any longer whether they can master fundamentals, the question is can they be consistant in the use of fundamentals.

I'm never sure about the answers to such questions. Generally both good and bad habits feed off the habits of others. I think the only way you counter it is to remove each player who fails to clean up his act until the others fall in line.

The personnel moves made by the Raiders this season will likely be the most important moves they have ever, or will ever make. This season will either mark the re-birth of the Raider Nation or be the moment when they reach the bottom of the sand pit, unable to climb out for a decade or more.

Now those are raised stakes! Can you handle it? I, for one, like living on the edge. This coming season could prove to be the most exciting ever, or be the thing that finally causes us to spend lots of time with our significant others. For every kick off in '08, think of that.

10:37 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

There's some potential in the cuts today by Atlanta.

Leftwich would make a good #3 QB, and we can trade Walter.

Wayne Gandy could provide some life at LT.

And our old friend Rod Coleman is now available. We let him go because we were switching to a 3-4 and he certainly isn't a nose tackle. But as I remember it, he sure can collapse a pocket.

11:06 AM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

"I actually saw somebody write an article about what Gruden and Allen were doing while they were still here, and the article said the chickens would come home to roost"

My only edit to the statement would be to make it ... "I actually saw somebody write an article about what Davis, Gruden and Allen were doing"

Al Davis willingly rolled the dice for a SB with aging veterans. To think that Gruden/Allen pushed this upon Davis is laughable.

It is unfortunate that year 1 of the rebuilding phase had a 5 year delay ... perhaps the gardener was pruning & trimming the grassy knoll. :}

11:14 AM  
Anonymous LK said...

RT-
Let's look at this by each level of the D:
D line: rarely have to tackle in space so can't say we have a tackling problem here. We have a definite skill problem at RDE.
Linebackers: Morrison and Howard are both above average tacklers. Our Sam LBs are not at the same talent level but are not bad tacklers.
Secondary: At the corners we have above average talent and all can tackle. At safety, Huff is a good tackler in space but gets run over in run support; Stu takes bad angles in space and is late in run support; Eugene--jury is still out.
Often in the secondary big plays are given up because someone is out of position.

So, my take is we have a tackling problem only at safety, which is probably best attributed to personnel, but also may have a defensive backfield coaching issue from so many big plays...

11:40 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

In 2007, we were dead last in the AFC in yards allowed per rushing attempt (4.8!). We were next to dead last in average rushing yards allowed per game in the AFC, with only the Dolphins allowing more. We gave up six more rushing touchdowns than any other team in the AFC (24 total, the Dolphins gave up the second most with 18).

It may not be purely a tackling problem, but it's surely a stopping problem, and I've got to think it goes deeper than safety, although our safeties are definitely part of the problem.

11:55 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

RT asked: "Are our guys just incapable of fundamentals, despite being deemed talented enough to start in the NFL, and/or do we have a serious coaching problem on that side of the ball?"
If we go by what Rob Ryan, Warren Sapp, and some other defensive players said through this past season of "If we keep in our gaps, we wouldn't have this problem," I'm leaning that this is a player problem. I don't think it is an incapability problem; I think it is a discipline problem with young players shooting their gap trying to make a big play; but the big play they are making is for the other team.
We have a lot of young players in key defensive positions (DE, LB, S, CB). I given an example about a young DE for a high school team shooting his gap, causing a blocker to go one-on-one against a linebacker for a big running play. The reason? The DE thought he'd make a better play by going inside the gap, instead of staying to the outside. When the problem was pointed out, he was benched, and the team lost by the 2 TD's that stemmed from him doing that.
Could be the same thing the Raiders are facing, and we just need to sit them out, until they can follow instructions; or cut these players, and replace them with people who will follow instructions.

11:58 AM  
Anonymous LK said...

No doubt we have a stopping problem, RT. Both our current DEs are light and can be run at and we can't support the run at the safety position [how many tackles did Rodney Harrision make in the SB, like 11, and NEs LBs are old]. A playmaking, sure tackling SS is the key to run support. When you add our weakness there to the DL problems you get the performance we put out there...but, more along your lines of thinking, if our coaches were that good, shouldn't we have gotten a better defensive performance?

12:05 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

I'm confused, Calico. Explain. What I'm hearing from you is if you make the argument that Davis, Gruden, and Allen built for the quick Super Bowl while neglecting the future and the team's foundation, it's a looney conspiracy theory. But IAAF is perfectly reasonable, and nothing more needs to be said. I just love that kind of careful analysis.

12:06 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

What's the acronym for "it's not all Al's fault, but as the owner and chief executive of the organization who controls hirings and signings, even he, unlike some folks, would probably man up to take the brunt of responsibility for the epic mess that that Raiders got themselves into, and who should understand that change is the surest path toward change?"

12:58 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

RT, you seem to off on your own tangent and not responding to any body's comment. Read the list again - "Davis, Gruden and Allen..."

Sorry, but if I take Gruden and Allen off that list, IAAF. You and Calico tell me that by leaving them on it, I'm peddling grassy knoll conspiracy theories.

So, Take, what you're telling me is that it's not IAAF, but It's All Al's Fault!

1:16 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

That "list" is Calico Jack's, not yours. He added Al to the list after you left him off of it.

The pearl is in the river. Don't tell anyone.

1:25 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

all that glitters isn't gold.
again, we are not saying iaaf, but we are giving him credit where credit is due.

1:36 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Well, Take, one has to presume that Al always has something to do with it since, as you say, he's the one who hired Gruden and Allen.

I defy you to find me one instance where I have ever made the claim that Al bears no fault in any of this. But you seem to love setting up strawmen.

The arguments that H, Gary, and I have doing battle with are the ones who seem to claim that anybody that Al hires is just there as window dressing. They don't actually do anything or encourage Al to do anything. Al just pulls their strings.

To say I'm blaming Gruden and Allen, and not even considering Al is a cute little strawman, but it doesn't actually relate to anything I've ever said.

1:46 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Well, I'm sorry, like Calico Jack, I misunderstood your statement that "I actually saw somebody write an article about what Gruden and Allen were doing while they were still here, and the article said the chickens would come home to roost."

That's not a straw man. It's merely a reading.

I don't think any of us are saying that it's all Al's fault, or that none of it is Al's fault. We just have different opinions about who is most responsible for our plight, and upon whom the biggest burden of change should fall.

2:00 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

P.S. If you every start a company, please make me your CEO. When the company crashes, we could have a lot of fun blaming the people I hired, and to whom I delegated decisions before signing off on them.

2:07 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Let's look at it this way. Al Davis has a long history of bring in an aging superstar every few years. It's always somebody who, according to the rest of the league, has nothing left in the tank. Then that player typically winds up goint into the hall, and Al claims him as a Raider.

But never in Al's history, except when the Raiders had Gruden as HC and Allen as the cap specialist, has he employed such a veteran at about 80% of the skill positions.

Following Gruden and Allen to TB, they spent several years bringing in young players who most of the league thought would be, at the very least, good bets (people like Chris Sims for instance). Under Gruden those younger players failed to develope, and the Bucs couldn't even contend to get into the post season. Last year TB went back to signing aged veterans, and they were back in the playoffs.

This just might lead one to conclude that Gruden has trouble developing talent, and prefers older veterans with their positive habits already intact. It might lead a reasoning person to conclude that Gruden and Allen had a lot to do with the team foundation when they were in Oakland. A reasoning person would not conclude that Davis had no knowledge of what was happening, nor would he conclude that Davis didn't support what was happening.

As for myself, I believe that each coach and executive Al hires have a great deal of input into which moves Al makes. That's why he hires them - for their input. He doesn't hire them because they go nicely with the carpet.

Putting all of this together, one might reasonably conclude that Al, Gruden and Allen all had something to do with the destruction of the team foundation. Further, Gruden and Allen don't have to worry about it because they've moved on. The man who does have to worry about it apparently is. Which is why he has said that one of the reasons he's hired Kiffin is because of Kiffin's knowledge of youth.

All of this, of course, is tin foil hat stuff. A reasoning person just says, IAAF.

2:18 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

jake grove, andrew walter, fabian washington.....Young players who may not have had enough exposure to trully know their value...Yet...Just as in the case of Nandi -n- Fargas....some young players take more time to develop and the right coaches to bring it out...or in the case of Tylar....too much time spent on a player who did not develop....

Perplexing Question....who do we keep and who do we replace....Change without reasoning will just dig a deeper hole that we can never climb out of....

"D"....We need veteran help here....I am very reluctant to spend another 1st rd pick on a squad that does not produce consistantly...I do not believe 1-2 players will turn this side of the ball around in "08"...We need movement but it needs to be ballanced....2 key veterans and 2-3 young players to develop....But don't scrap a secondary who were at times at the top of the league in Pass "D" in "07"....We should go "D" with our 2nd rd pick....

1st rd we should go "Skill Position" "O"....but it appears the only "Skill Position" player worth the 3-4 pick is at "RB"....NOT a "WR" available worth the pick....

The "O" is on the verge of high production....the "OL" played well in the running game and pass blocked better than in "06"...Our failure was at the "QB" position where play was totally irratic and at "WR" where we had the same peoblem....So...If we were to add a highly talented "RB" along with M Bush -n- Fargas who we already have the Run game could become so powerful that most of the heat is taken off the "WR"s -n- "QB"....and the "Vertical Game" will open up for us...

What I am saying is that the very best way to help our "Helpless" "D" is to put a powerful "O" on the field that punishes the oposition..."Consistantly"...does NOT turn the ball over and scores points on every possetion....Now wouldn't that be something to dream about...."The Raiders of Old"....

The simple fact is our "D" is several players away from being "Dominate"....But the "O" could be much closer...

PantyRaider....Speculation!!!!

2:20 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

"P.S. If you every start a company, please make me your CEO. When the company crashes, we could have a lot of fun blaming the people I hired, and to whom I delegated decisions before signing off on them."

No. If I owned the company, I'd fire your ass. Just like Al would.

2:21 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

In the process, I'm sure you'd absolve yourself of responsibility for the company crashing.

2:36 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

PantyRaider is with me on the "chuck" part. Let's get some threats. They don't need to be superstars, just capable downfield receivers with good character.

Kiffin admitted that Higgins' growth and evaluation were stunted by our counterintuitive reliance on Williams-Dwight in the third slot during a rebuilding year. Hopefully we find out ASAP if he's going to cut it.

2:41 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

"In the process, I'm sure you'd absolve yourself of responsibility for the company crashing."

If it's my company, it's also my fortune. But it is my company, and it will be until I die or the company goes bankrupt. That, my friend, is a reality you're going to have to get used to. Al Davis isn't the CEO. He's the guy that hires, or doesn't hire the CEO.

2:46 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

I can just see your annual report: "Sure, we've posted dreadful losses for five consecutive years, but I own the majority, so it's my company dammit, and you have no right to complain, so just get used to it."

2:53 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

I left a post over at Calico's site saying that I think WR is going to be our problem child this year.

I think Kiffin will likely address the problems with stopping the run, and there are more than adequate tools out there for the cure. However, both the FA and DRAFT WR class this year is fairly weak. There are some viable #2s out there, but few (if any) viable #1s.

It's going to stick in Al's craw looking for a good trade possibility after giving up Moss for a #4, but I think we need to do it. However, the problem is that we don't have anything to trade for a #1 WR, unless we consider giving up 2009 draft picks.

It's looking very likely to me that our starters in 2008 will be Curry and Higgins. I hope Higgins is spending lots of time at Raiders HQ this off season. He better. JRuss needs somebody to throw to.

2:55 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

"O"....if it was productive the oposition would have to scrap part of their run game plan and throw the ball to play "Keep-Up"....if it were "Dominate" they would be playing "Catch-Up" and play into the streingth of our "D"....

"D"....Could look very productive -n- tough if it did not have to face so much running down our throats....or bad field position from "TO"s and a failed "O"....They could be much more aggressive if they did not have to worry about the score and the "O"s inability to put up points or give them a rest....

Please Al give us an "O"....

PantyRaider....SkillPosition!!!!!

2:58 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

It's not a problem. I don't have a publicly traded company, and the minority owners are "silent partners" who must either bow to my judgment or sell back their interest.

2:59 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Glad to know you think so highly of your customers.

3:03 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

"WR" of AZ....Fitz....

What is the posibility that he get's out of town and we go after him....A. Walter is a home-town favorate in the "StickerPatch"...PortSter would look good in the NFCW...What else could we give then...a high 3rd rd pick...

PantyRaider....TradeBate!!!!

3:05 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Here we go:

A lawsuit filed Friday by a former St. Louis Rams player and others seeks millions of dollars in damages from the alleged taping of Rams practices by the New England Patriots before the 2002 Super Bowl.

The Patriots won the game 20-17 in the Superdome.

The $100 million suit, filed on behalf of former Rams player Willie Gary in U.S. District Court in New Orleans, names the Patriots, team owner Robert Kraft and head coach Bill Belichick.

3:25 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

Yi-Pi!!!!

We a gona have a "Patsy" Fry...

Hang da Bastards....and "Good-All" "Burn da Tapes" Commisioner....

PantyRaider....JudgementCall!!!

3:32 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

SO...ya all talking about the leagal business so how about the "RaiderNation" get together and file a suit against the bastards for Gambling Losses and in-humane punishment...anguish...suffering as a result of the spying and eventual bad call (TUCK) that cost us and our beloved Raiders an opertunity to advance to the AFC Championship Game "2002"....

PantyRaider...Where do I sign!!!!

3:38 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

Raidertake,

don't you know, we cannot stop the run, or tackle because of bruce allen, and jon gruden.


wake up !!!!!!!!!

4:06 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

IAAF

4:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

>>>>>
The arguments that H, Gary, and I have doing battle with are the ones who seem to claim that anybody that Al hires is just there as window dressing.
>>>>

Well actually... most IAAFers said Gruden was completely responsible for everything that happened during our three year championship run... uhh... until now, of course.

---Gary

5:20 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Personally, I've been very vocal about giving Mr. Davis his due for those great years, and have repeatedly debunked those who would suggest that Jon Gruden could take two teams to the Super Bowl in the same year. I have pointed out that Davis hired Gruden and, as a very hands-on owner, had a firm hand in the team's success.

For this same reason, I am giving Mr. Davis his due for the failures of the past five years.

That's why I'm neither an IAAFer nor an enabler. I'm not a fan of illogic.

Failure to give Mr. Davis the bulk of the responsibility for the organization's fortunes, good or bad, is where you will find your inconsistency.

5:56 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

BR: The reason I added Davis to Gruden & Allen for the mess were are in is simple. In your previous posts leading up to my response, you made many coherent, intelligent comments about how the Raiders mortgaged their future for a run at glory. I agree.

In these posts you went on endlessly about how it is Gruden/Allen's fault. There was no mention of Davis being equally if not more responsible as well. I know you will say that you give credit/blame to Davis but your posts gave the impression that Davis was innocently standing by idle while these decisions that impact the team were made.

Like RT, I try to make sense of what has happened to our beloved team. I try to give a balanced opinion. I'm definitely not a IAAFer BUT I also hold Davis accountable. Logically, since Davis is a hands on owner and we are in an epically bad 5 year swoon, the majority of blame falls back on him.

When we get out of this funk and turn things around, I will give the proper and just credit to Davis for making the right decisions to rebuild the team.

The analogy I would make is that the folks in the IAAF camp are reactionary conservatives and the folks in the INAF (It's Never Al's fault) are radical liberals. I consider myself an independent. I prefer concentrating on offering opinions of constructive resolutions to the problems instead of playing the blame game.

6:49 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Precisely, Calico Jack.

On a similar note, I am taking aim here more at illogic, enabling and evasion than I am Mr. Davis.

If it sounds like I'm just harping on Mr. Davis for the sake of harping, that's not the case. I am just pointing out the obvious, mainly in response to those who so forcefully ignore the obvious. And the obvious, when you're sitting on one of the worst five-year runs in the modern history of the NFL, is never going to be pretty.

I would gladly drop this stuff if folks would quit advancing these outlandish excuses our plight.

7:17 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

Calico Jack,

why do you say the raiders mortgaged their future during the allen/gruden/ davis time ?

it's true that the team was loaded with high priced vets with a few last drops left in the tank.

but it's also true that the raiders had plenty of draft picks during the allen/gruden/davis era.

isn't the real problem that the raiders drafted poorly during that time, so that when the vets were spent, there was no talent, or next to no talent, to step in ?

in my view, it's poor drafting that has plagued the raiders, not a team of aging vets.

7:19 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Next four years of first through third picks post Gruden:

2005
1. Fabian Washington, CB, Nebraska
2. Stanford Routt, CB, Houston
3a. Andrew Walter, QB, Arizona

2004
1. Robert Gallery, OT, Iowa
2. Jake Grove, C, Virginia Tech
3. Stuart Schweigert, S, Purdue

2003
1a. Nnamdi Asomugha, CB, California
1b. Tyler Brayton, DE, Colorado
2. Teyo Johnson, TE, Stanford

2002
1a. Phillip Buchanon, CB, Miami,
1b. Napoleon Harris, LB, Northwestern
2a. Langston Walker, OL, California

7:35 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

exactly my point raidertake.
and let's look at the drafts during the allen/davis/gruden era:

1998
1a. charles woodson
1b. mo collins
2. leon bender

1999
1. matt stinchcomb
2. tony bryant
3. demeane douglas

2000
1. seabass (bama7' fav.)
2. jerry porter
3. jr. ioane

2001
1. derrick gibson
2. m. tuiasosopo
3. delawrence grant

add this to the post gruden picks, and is it any wonder why the raiders have sunk so far, so fast.

8:32 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Raider 00:

No question the draft is one of the most important ways to rebuild a team. Poor drafts makes it very difficult to gain traction.

When you have a team built on aging, high priced veterans there is a major toll to pay:

There are big time cap ramifications which severely handicaps the team's ability to replensish need areas depleted by vets. "Dead" money on the books tied up to players no longer on the roster is detrimental.

If the Raiders had better drafts
AND
If the Raiders made sound decisions on Head Coach selections
AND
IF the Raiders used/managed their cap space wisely
AND
If the Raiders targeted key free agents who make an impact ...

The results would be long term, sustainable success.

When we were in cap hell, drafting poorly, and running HCs in & out every year or 2, changing systems and philosophies with each new staff, the result was 19 & 61.

2007 was the 1st baby step towards getting things turned around.

We now are approx. $26M under the cap.

We had a fairly good draft last year (Russell, Miller, Bush, O'Neil)

We picked up a few, cost friendly good free agents (Carlisle, Newberry, Griffith)

We have a rising HC who hopefully will be with us long term.

We have a franchise QB & rushing attack to build upon.

We have some quality defenders to form a nucleus.

The key is to keep adding the right pieces to the puzzle. The right pieces means solid player evaluations (draft, free agency), players that fit the system, getting the most bang for our buck.

A classic case of getting very little bang for our buck:

Paying Moss $19M for 2 years. Spending this kind of money on a WR for a 4 & 12 team is ludicrous. IF you are going to spend big money, it should be on high impact position/players (ie. LT, franchise QB, pass rushing DE, shutdown CB). The WR position is not a high impact position.

In my opinion, a team shouldn't tie up too much money in a WR until they are close to being a championship caliber team.

A classic case of getting quite a bit of bang for our buck:

OG Cooper Carlisle; $2M for a solid starter who fits the system.

10:24 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

Five things each AFC West team needs

hi folks,
does anyone have the above espn insider article that they'd like to share?

11:13 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

calico said,
"We have a rising HC who hopefully will be with us long term."

calico,
kiffin will be with us this year. Then we'll all have to endure the same BS this time next year. trust me man, lofton is here for a reason.

in fact, i hope those of us (and that was ALL except maybe blanda) put your money where your keyboard and/or mouth is. I AM. i was at mcdonald's this pm. i ended up talking to a fellow raider fan who has season tickets in the black hole no less. he told me that "al davis is killing us!" WOW. from the black hole folks!

i still believe the fans will speak loud and clear at the gates. i don't think this al vs. kiffin crap'll die down quietly.

11:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Scorpio-
Usually I can go to another, less, um, organized and mature discussion site and poach but that is not up. They did have a description of an interview of porter on bspn with salsbury and horse face that sounded like... an interview of a guy who could care less about the Raiders with two guys who are among the top 5 haters of all time. So you can imagine how un-insightful that was.


There was mention of an nfl network afc west preview on Friday but as I tell my wife, the won't know more than the guys on Raider Take.....


memdf

5:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

H said...

Too much to go through since my last visit. I suggest tonight people do what I was doing last night. Go somewhere nice with a person of the female persuasion, have a good meal with some liquid medication. Then call Dr. H in the morning.

As for Rod Coleman, his collapsing the pocket days may be over. Spent half his time on the injured list the last two years.

Now for a run supporting safety. If we don't have good solid run stuffing tackles that take up blockers the safety won't do you a bit of good. For me stopping the run starts at the point of attack, the line. It doesn't matter whether it's a 4-3 or a 3-4. It's the line in general and the DT's in particular.

If we don't get an Albert Haynesworth in FA, I like Sedric Ellis. As much as I would love to see SOH in Silver and Black, we need DT's in a bad way. Unless Turdell Sands year was an anomaly and he regains the form they expected of him next year.

H

P. S. Take, I cant' use the nickname thing any more, I'm having to use anonymous. What gives?

7:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

>>>>
Scorpio:
kiffin will be with us this year. Then we'll all have to endure the same BS this time next year. trust me man, lofton is here for a reason.
>>>>>


Only if the Raiders underachieve.

If Kiffin coaches us to 8 wins minimum, and especially 9 or 10 wins, you can bet Al will do whatever it takes to keep Kiffin (if he wants to stay).

If he doesn't want to stay... I guess you can dance around in glee (pretending you are pissed off) about being right. He will be gone.

If we end up with 4 to 7 wins, he's gone even if he wants to stay.

Ironically, if Kiffin were smart, in order to keep his job... he'd do what Gruden did... start loading up with every free agent veteran he can get his hands on... and start the "mortgage the future" franchise model all over again. Like I said.. it almost worked last time.

If you remember, Gruden's philosophy was to have competition at every spot... what better way to do it than to bring in a veteran at every spot?


---Gary

7:14 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Yeah, and if there's anything we've learned over the past six weeks, it's that Kiffin has sweeping authority to take the team in any direction he pleases.

8:19 AM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Kiffin is going to need to squeeze every last drop of talent from the roster, continue developing the younger players, and make do (with more than likely) with 2nd tier free agents.

In my opinion, 8 wins is the minimum threshold for Kiffin to stick around 2009 and beyond.

One of the most obvious keys to the Raiders success in 2008 will be the performance of JaMarcus Russell. Along those lines, we will need to add 3 WRs to the roster to give him the targets and playmakers for him to realize his potential.

A WR group of Curry, Higgins, Bryant Johnson (FA), Early Doucet (2nd Round), and Dervey Henderson (FA) would be a good mix of WRs. It would be a versatile group of deep threats (Higgins, Henderson), physical possession WRs (Curry, Johnson) and an all around YAC WR (Doucet).

12:44 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I see that a former Rams player has filed a lawsuit against the Patsies for spygate. It's a good thing the NFL destroyed the evidence. Brilliant!

2:10 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

More evidence from Spygate is on the way. A previous Pats employee (Walsh) will be handing over tapes to the league office from the 2000 to 2003 time frame. This former employee will be interviewed (if he can reach an agreement of idemity). This could blow wide open and end up being one of the biggest sports scandals in recent history. It will tarnish and stain the Pats 3 SBs and so called 'dynasty'.

8:23 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

CalicoJack:

I like your Independant Attitude....I admit to being too "Die-Hard" in the past and faithfully supporting Mr Davis but the time has come to sinserly question some of what has happened to the team in recent years....I am the last guy to get down on an "OldTimer" who has done more than I could ever dream of doing....but perhaps age is catching up and his advisers are selling him out....I will give him the bennifit of the doubt based opon his past accomplishments and his advanced age....and suspect he is getting some very bad advise from somewhere....

Al....Stop listening to the crap...

Raider00:

Great point....When we lost Gruden we also gained (2)1st -n- (2)2nd rd draft picks and $8,000,000 of cap money....What the hell did we do with it all....

RT:

Are you telling me we already have our next "HC" on board the "SinkingShip"....or is that the "StinkingShip" as in "GarbageScow"...

Is that why Lofton was brought in...

PantyRaider...WorryWorts!!!!!

8:27 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

I see a very strong similarity between Edy's Winers and BellyChicks Patsies...

Two so called "Dynasties" who were shrouded in "Cheating" and now have the big (*) next to their "SB"s...but in the end who cares....all they remember is they got's it....So it's worth it...

PantyRaider....Discusted!!!!

8:31 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

NyRaider,

this lawsuit by former rams players has given me an idea.

why don't some former raiders players bring a suit against the nfl, and the official's for all the times we have been screwed in the past.

it's not like it's only been a couple of times.
the raiders would be able to walk into court with a mountain of evidence.
and this evidence has not been destroyed, it's still on film/video.

i wonder what some of these shady nfl official's would say if deposed by some sharp lawyers.
i'd bet a few would crack.

anyway, just a thought/dream. but i'd love to see it happen.

9:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pantyraider,

When we lost Gruden we did not get 8,000,000.00 in cap money. We got 8 mill as part of the deal, but loosing a head coach frees exactly zero in cap money.

H

9:50 PM  
Blogger H said...

For all the rehashing of the drafts, it appears on the surface that last years draft may have been fairly decent. Russell, Miller, Richardson, O'Neal and, hopefully, Bush.

We also have draft choices Morrison, Howard, Curry and Asomugha are making positive contributions. I sometimes get the feeling that people expect three to four pro bowl players from every draft.

On draft day people were gripeing that Asomuhga was a reach where he was taken. Now we are gripeing that he isn't already signed to a long term contract.

H

10:08 PM  
Blogger H said...

Raider00,

One problem with your plan is many of the NFL officials are lawyers. Take my word for it, they are a very incestious lot.

H

10:11 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

H,

you are correct that many nfl official's are lawyers.
but i do not believe they all are.

is walt coleman a lawyer. i don't think so.

let's get him on the stand and see if he breaks.

it would be great to watch on court t.v., bigger then the oj trial.
well, at least for us raiders fans.

10:35 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Raider00- Let's put it on network TV with Judge Judy. No need to hide it down the dial on CSPAN 3, or BSPN 6.

And let's start with Exhibit A - the Tuck job. Then let's explain to the court that the Raiders have been a poster child for every bogus rule ever established in the NFL... Exhibits B-Z.

I like the way Goodell told Spector that he was absolutely right to destroy the tapes, and if more evidence surfaced he would address that evidence on its own merit. Translation, he would destroy that evidence.

And how is it the Pats get the #7 pick in the draft? If the NFL is going punish them by removing a first round pick, shouldn’t they at least keep the Pats out of the top-10? Hello! Take the #7 pick, not #31. Leaving the Pats the #7 pick allows them to pick ahead of 25 teams, many of whom they probably cheated. The whole thing is a joke on every other team in the NFL.

7:13 AM  
Blogger H said...

NYRaider,

I dissagree, but only to this extent. They should have had to forefit BOTH first round picks.

The affect though would give Miami and St. Louis two first rounders. As it is, Miami has two first rounders with the ruling. Not that there is a lot of difference between drafting 32 or 33.

H

9:20 AM  
Anonymous Arkansan Raider said...

Raider 00,

Walt Coleman is a dairy farmer.

He owns a regional powerhouse when it comes to Coleman Dairies in the MidSouth.

I never, ever buy Coleman milk.

---Jeff

2:23 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

Raider00:

That was also my idea but I wanted the RaiderNation to bring it....we suffered enough damage as a result of the NFL's "Screw da Raiders" campayne....

""" CutThroatRaider said...
SO...ya all talking about the leagal business so how about the "RaiderNation" get together and file a suit against the bastards for Gambling Losses and in-humane punishment...anguish...suffering as a result of the spying and eventual bad call (TUCK) that cost us and our beloved Raiders an opertunity to advance to the AFC Championship Game "2002"....

PantyRaider...Where do I sign!!!!

3:38 PM """ copy/posted from another time....

""" Anonymous said...
Pantyraider,

When we lost Gruden we did not get 8,000,000.00 in cap money. We got 8 mill as part of the deal, but loosing a head coach frees exactly zero in cap money.

H """

I may be mistaken here but my understanding was that the Bucks would pick up $8,000,000 in our cap money or that in some way it gave the Raiders more money for signing players drafted with the #1 -n- #2 picks from Tampa....At least I recall talk to that effect on the Radio if the media can be believed....

PantyRaider....WaistedOpetunities!!!

4:51 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

Here is the current position of the Raiders FA -n- RA...

UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS
• CB Nnamdi Asomugha will be given the franchise tag if he does not reach agreement on a long-term contract before Feb. 29.

• DE Chris Clemons had eight sacks in 16 games in a pass rushing role and was one of few defensive bright lights.

• S Jarrod Cooper is a special teams standout and has stated his desire to return. He is recovering from ACL surgery.

• QB Daunte Culpepper got in enough starts while Raiders waited for Russell to put on his resume and move on.

• WR Tim Dwight caught a pair of touchdown passes and provided a spark but had trouble staying healthy at age 32.

• OT Cornell Green was primarily a backup for seven seasons, started 10 times for Raiders but didn't finish the season with a knee injury.

• DE-DT Tommy Kelly is the Raiders' most versatile lineman with outside/inside capabilities but played in just seven games before an ACL tear.

• QB Josh McCown floundered early, played better toward the end of the season and said he would have no problem mentoring Russell.

• C Jeremy Newberry surprised everyone by starting 14 times after knee troubles had limited him to 11 games in three previous years with the 49ers. Said he wants to return.

• WR Jerry Porter had career-best 16.0 yards per catch average (44 receptions, 705 yards, 6 TDs) but reception count was lowest of his career for seasons in which he played 16 games. Voided the last year of his contract.

RESTRICTED FREE AGENTS

• LB Jon Alston was a core special teams player who also played in some defensive packages, mostly in pass coverage.

• LB Ricky Brown plays on all special teams and has the versatility to play inside and outside at linebacker.

• CB-S Chris Carr plays as a nickel corner in one package, a deep safety in another and has returned both kickoffs and punts.

• C Jon Condo enjoyed a solid year as the long-snapper, displacing veteran Adam Treu, and has good coverage skills on punts

• LB Isaiah Ekejiuba was kept on the roster with a foot injury despite missing the first four games and is the club's best wedge-buster, although he seldom if ever plays defensively.

• TE John Madsen, a converted wide receiver, remains an effective if under-utilized receiver who can play in the slot.

PLAYERS RE-SIGNED

• RB Justin Fargas: Potential UFA; $12M/3 yrs, $6M guaranteed.

• LB Sam Williams: Potential UFA; terms unknown.

So who do we go after in the 1st rd....Top 36 according to Matt...We should pick 2 from this list....

1 Chris Long Virginia DE 6-4 275 4.79 1
2 Glenn Dorsey LSU DT 6-2 316 5.09 1
3 • Darren McFadden Arkansas RB 6-2 210 4.42 1
4 Jake Long Michigan OT 6-7 315 5.08 1
5 Sedrick Ellis Southern Cal DT 6-1 308 4.96 1
6 Matt Ryan Boston College QB 6-5 224 4.79 1
7 • Vernon Gholston Ohio State DE 6-4 258 4.67 1
8 • Ryan Clady Boise State OT 6-6 316 5.28 1
9 Keith Rivers Southern Cal OLB 6-2 236 4.63 1
10 Mike Jenkins South Florida CB 6-0 200 4.49 1
11 • DeSean Jackson California WR 6-0 178 4.32 1
12 • Kenny Phillips Miami FS 6-2 208 4.46 1
13 • Derrick Harvey Florida DE 6-5 252 4.73 1
14 • Jonathan Stewart Oregon RB 5-11 235 4.48 1
15 Brian Brohm Louisville QB 6-3 227 4.79 1
16 Chris Williams Vanderbilt OT 6-6 320 5.29 1
17 Leodis McKelvin Troy CB 5-11 190 4.44 1
18 • Rashard Mendenhall Illinois RB 5-11 210 4.48 1
19 Dan Connor Penn State ILB 6-3 233 4.67 1
20 Fred Davis Southern Cal TE 6-3 250 4.76 1
21 • Felix Jones Arkansas RB 6-0 200 4.39 1
22 • James Hardy Indiana WR 6-6 220 4.59 1
23 Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie Tennessee State CB 6-2 183 4.44 1
24 Jeff Otah Pittsburgh OT 6-6 340 5.36 1
25 Antoine Cason Arizona CB 6-0 190 4.54 1
26 • Malcolm Kelly Oklahoma WR 6-4 218 4.54 1
27 Kentwan Balmer North Carolina DT 6-5 308 5.12 1
28 Early Doucet LSU WR 6-0 211 4.54 1-2
29 • Calais Campbell Miami DE 6-8 282 4.85 1-2
30 • Mario Manningham Michigan WR 6-0 185 4.48 1-2
31 • Anthony Collins Kansas OT 6-6 308 5.08 1-2
32 Ali Highsmith LSU OLB 6-0 229 4.56 1-2
33 Chad Henne Michigan QB 6-3 228 5.18 1-2
34 • Jamaal Charles Texas RB 6-1 200 4.39 1-2
35 • Aqib Talib Kansas CB 6-2 202 4.52 1-2
36 • Phillip Merling Clemson DE 6-5 272 4.73 2


MIKE MAYOCK’S TOP 20 (as of February 12, 2008)

1. Matt Ryan - QB, Boston College
2. Sedrick Ellis – DT, USC
3. Chris Long - DE, Virginia
4. Glenn Dorsey – DT, LSU
5. Vernon Gholston – DE, Ohio State
6. Jake Long – OL, Michigan
7. Ryan Clady – OL, Boise State
8. Keith Rivers – LB, USC
9. Phillip Merling – DE, Clemson
10. Leodis McKelvin – CB, Troy
11. Brandon Flowers – CB, Virginia Tech
12. Rashard Mendenhall – RB, Illinois
13. Jeff Otah – OL, Pittsburgh
14. Derrick Harvey – DE, Florida
15. Kentwan Balmer – DT, North Carolina
16. Aqib Talib – CB, Kansas
17. Chris Williams – OL, Vanderbilt
18. Mario Manningham – WR, Michigan
19. Limas Sweed – WR, Texas
20. Branden Albert – OL, Virginia

PantyRaider...AnyBody'sGuess!!!!

6:37 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

Scouting the NFL FA....

http://profootballexperts.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&nid=83&lnid=83&yr=2008

7:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

>>>>

I may be mistaken here but my understanding was that the Bucks would pick up $8,000,000 in our cap money or that in some way it gave the Raiders more money for signing players drafted with the #1 -n- #2 picks from Tampa..
>>>>


I kinda remember this also... but I don't think it had anything to do with the cap. Al just didn't have any money. I remember Al bitching at the time he was 28th in the league in revenue.


---Gary

9:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Boys-

Here's a good read on a slow
Raider news weekend...

Pre-combine wrap-up
http://www.ibabuzz.com/raidersblog/


memdf

5:08 AM  
Blogger H said...

PantyRaider,

I may be wrong, but I think the only way a team can assume part of another teams cap space is by absorbing a players contract.

The 8 million paid by the Suckneers could be used to sign players, but had no affect on cap space. It just helped the bottom line.

In the mock drafts, most folks have us taking Glen Dorsey or Darren McFadden. Don't be surprised if it is Sedrick Ellis. The coaching staff got a look at him upclose and personal in the Senior Bowl. Rumors are he was the standout on the north squad.

By the way, I can't recall, when is the coin flip going to happen?

H

5:53 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

you know who i don't see on the list of players, that may be a dark horse pick, especially if chris long, and jake long are taken before we pick......jordy nelson, wr, ksu. let's not kid ourselves, outside of the offensive line, wide receiver is a big gaping hole for us since the departure of tim brown. i would say it should be our #2 priority, but used with a high draft pick.
now we can pick a dt, or ot with our first pick, and then trade up in the late 1st round to pick up jordy.
i don't mind either way, but if chris long (now projected by most to go #1), and jake long (projected to go #2 or #3) is off the chart, i think we go with jordy nelson.
i can't believe they have limas sweed ahead of this guy. sweed is a good talent, but i don't think he will do great in the nfl; plus he is still recovering from an injury. i think jordy will, a big, bruising wr. you will see his stock rise quickly after the combine this week.
i love this time of year. it looks like fat albert haynesworth is going to get the "tag", as well as namdi; so it looks like we won't be signing haynesworth.

5:54 AM  
Blogger H said...

PantyRaider,

I may be wrong, but I think the only way a team can assume part of another teams cap space is by absorbing a players contract.

The 8 million paid by the Suckneers could be used to sign players, but had no affect on cap space. It just helped the bottom line.

In the mock drafts, most folks have us taking Glen Dorsey or Darren McFadden. Don't be surprised if it is Sedrick Ellis. The coaching staff got a look at him upclose and personal in the Senior Bowl. Rumors are he was the standout on the north squad.

By the way, I can't recall, when is the coin flip going to happen?

H

6:59 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

H: I think the coin flip is at he combine.

---Gary

7:02 AM  
Blogger H said...

Nate,

I would keep Jordy Nelson as a possible second round pick. He appears to be so far off the radar with the "experts" that he may still be there in the second.

I believe we only have five picks this year, I wouldn't be trading any away to get an earlier pick. There are only 31 teams picking in the first round this year. The worst we are picking in the second round would be 35th overall.

H

7:07 AM  
Blogger H said...

Gary,

Thanks, that would sound right. I can't see doing a coin flip via telephone conference call.

H

7:08 AM  
Anonymous LK said...

Panty-
I like Mayock...think he's a good evaluator. The list is alot shorter if you take off all the QBs, RBs, ILBs, TEs and DBs since it's highly unlikely we're drafting one of those:
Chris Long Virginia DE 6-4 275 4.79 1
2 Glenn Dorsey LSU DT 6-2 316 5.09 1
4 Jake Long Michigan OT 6-7 315 5.08 1
5 Sedrick Ellis Southern Cal DT 6-1 308 4.96 1
7 • Vernon Gholston Ohio State DE 6-4 258 4.67 1
8 • Ryan Clady Boise State OT 6-6 316 5.28 1
9 Keith Rivers Southern Cal OLB 6-2 236 4.63 1
11 • DeSean Jackson California WR 6-0 178 4.32 1
13 • Derrick Harvey Florida DE 6-5 252 4.73 1
16 Chris Williams Vanderbilt OT 6-6 320 5.29 1
22 • James Hardy Indiana WR 6-6 220 4.59 1
24 Jeff Otah Pittsburgh OT 6-6 340 5.36 1
26 • Malcolm Kelly Oklahoma WR 6-4 218 4.54 1
27 Kentwan Balmer North Carolina DT 6-5 308 5.12 1
28 Early Doucet LSU WR 6-0 211 4.54 1-2
29 • Calais Campbell Miami DE 6-8 282 4.85 1-2
30 • Mario Manningham Michigan WR 6-0 185 4.48 1-2
31 • Anthony Collins Kansas OT 6-6 308 5.08 1-2
32 Ali Highsmith LSU OLB 6-0 229 4.56 1-2
36 • Phillip Merling Clemson DE 6-5 272 4.73 2
Leaves 20 guys plus Trevor Laws. We get two of these and things are looking up

8:38 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

h,
i know jordy is off the radar now, but he won't be after the combine. for the ncaa's second leading receiver, he's been the "underdog," mainly because he is overlooked, always has been. but after the combine, his stock will rise quickly.

1:44 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

Scout.com Player Evaluation: McFadden
STRENGTHS
Acceleration
Breakaway Speed
Instincts
AREAS FOR IMPROVEMENT
Elusiveness


Best RB to enter the draft in the past two decades. Is a big explosive athlete, who showed excellent quicks & moves in the hole. Breaks secured tackles and finishes his runs. Judges distances well & showed real talent at the corner. Good backside vision & the ability to take it to the house. Can evaporate the pursuit angle with his great burst. Excellent hands & was extremely dangerous in space. A difference maker in every sense of the word.

Is there a better player on the board if he is still availabe when we pick....

Here is WR info....You can click on the name and get some Bio's at the positions....

http://profootballexperts.scout.com/a.z?s=
211&p=9&c=12&yr=2008&nid=83&lnid=124&rc=
4&pid=16

I don't see another player who is as complete at his position as McFadden....It appears to me that this class of "DL" have ability but are not supper dudes like in past drafts....They may not stack up well against other players at their positions in the last few years....This year is deep at the position but none are a great stand-out....

RB -n- CB -n- OT seem deep this year....

PantyRaider...Need=Risk-n-Failure!!!!

4:34 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

Clarification....

In "07" we went with need and ability and got the bigist badist "QB" to ever enter the NFL Draft with the greatist "Up-Side" available....Now we just have to hope he pans out....

The "08" draft has that type of "RB" available but not the need position at "WR"...."DT"...."DE"...."OT"....They are all gambles who have some strengths and some weakness....We would be far better off going after a proven veteran even if we have to sacrafice next years #1 to get him...or this years #2-n-3....Don't make the deal until after the first round is half way thru....Haynesworth....

PantyRaider...Caution-to-da-Autumn-Wind!!!!

4:49 PM  
Blogger H said...

I think Haynesworth is off the market now. According to the Houston Chronical he will be franchise tagged if not contract agreement is reached by the deadline (see we're not the only one who do it).

H

5:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blanda,

This may be the article you referenced earlier.

Jolly Roger

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=SJ&s_site=mercurynews&p_multi=SJ&p_theme=realcities&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0F2473037A7D7379&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM

5:45 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

H:

The franchise tag protects the team because any team who takes their player has to give up their 1st rd pick....or something like that....so what I say is to be sneeky....do the taking after the first round is rolling and see if his team will deal for a package of picks and players....if not we go after him and loose next years top pick....

Here is somthing interesting to look at...The Mediots have always punished the Raiders for mistakes but let's look back at who else made the big mistakes at "QB"...

1991...
1 16 Dan McGwire San Diego State Seattle Seahawks
1 24 Todd Marinovich USC Los Angeles Raiders
2 33 Brett Favre Southern Mississippi Atlanta Falcons
2 34 Browning Nagle Louisville New York Jets

We did not use the top 10 pick in the draft....it was #24 when there were only 28 teams picking....Seattle did worse than us and look at the jets...only GB was correct that year....

1990

1 1 Jeff George Illinois Indianapolis Colts
1 7 Andre Ware Houston Detroit Lions

Who get's the big segar that year...

1992
1 6 David Klingler Houston Cincinnati Bengals
1 25 Tommy Maddox UCLA Denver Broncos

1993
1 1 Drew Bledsoe Washington State New England Patriots
1 2 Rick Mirer Notre Dame Seattle Seahawks
3 58 Billy Joe Hobert Washington Los Angeles Raiders

1994
1 3 Heath Shuler Tennessee Washington Redskins
1 6 Trent Dilfer Fresno State Tampa Bay Buccaneers

1995
1 3 Steve McNair Alcorn State Houston Oilers
1 5 Kerry Collins Penn State Carolina Panthers
2 45 Todd Collins Michigan Buffalo Bills
2 60 Kordell Stewart Colorado Pittsburgh Steelers

1996
2 42 Tony Banks Michigan State St. Louis Rams

1997
1 26 Jim Druckenmiller Virginia Tech San Francisco 49ers
2 42 Jake Plummer Arizona State Arizona Cardinals

1998
1 1 Peyton Manning Tennessee Indianapolis Colts
1 2 Ryan Leaf Washington State San Diego Chargers
2 60 Charlie Batch Eastern Michigan Detroit Lions

1999
1 1 Tim Couch Kentucky Cleveland Browns
1 2 Donovan McNabb Syracuse Philadelphia Eagles
1 3 Akili Smith Oregon Cincinnati Bengals
1 11 Daunte Culpepper Central Florida Minnesota Vikings
1 12 Cade McNown UCLA Chicago Bears
2 50 Shaun King Tulane Tampa Bay Buccaneers

2000
1 18 Chad Pennington Marshall New York Jets

2001
1 1 Michael Vick Virginia Tech Atlanta Falcons
2 32 Drew Brees Purdue San Diego Chargers
2 53 Quincy Carter Georgia Dallas Cowboys
2 59 Marques Tuiasosopo Washington Oakland Raiders

2002
1 1 David Carr Fresno State Houston Texans
1 3 Joey Harrington Oregon Detroit Lions
1 32 Patrick Ramsey Tulane Washington Redskins

2003
1 1 Carson Palmer USC Cincinnati Bengals
1 7 Byron Leftwich Marshall Jacksonville Jaguars
1 19 Kyle Boller California Baltimore Ravens
1 22 Rex Grossman Florida Chicago Bears

2004
1 1 Eli Manning Mississippi San Diego Chargers
1 4 Philip Rivers North Carolina State New York Giants
1 11 Ben Roethlisberger Miami (Ohio) Pittsburgh Steelers
1 22 J.P. Losman Tulane Buffalo Bills

2005
1 1 Alex Smith Utah San Francisco 49ers
1 24 Aaron Rodgers California Green Bay Packers
1 25 Jason Campbell Auburn Washington Redskins

2006
1 3 Vince Young Texas Tennessee Titans
1 10 Matt Leinart USC Arizona Cardinals
1 11 Jay Cutler Vanderbilt Denver Broncos
2 49 Kellen Clemens Oregon New York Jets
2 64 Tarvaris Jackson Alabama State Minnesota Vikings

2007
1 1 JaMarcus Russell Louisiana State Oakland Raiders
1 22 Brady Quinn Notre Dame Cleveland Browns
2 36 Kevin Kolb Houston Philadelphia Eagles
2 40 John Beck Brigham Young Miami Dolphins
2 43 Drew Stanton Michigan State Detroit Lions

Just looking at the first 2 rds....not very maney teams drafted well throughout the 90's...and there are huge question markes about the last 7 seasons too...

PantyRaider...Raiders-Never-Drafted-High!!!!

6:40 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

Here is the complete list....interesting to look at...


http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=position&position=Quarterbacks

6:42 PM  
Blogger H said...

If Tennessee uses the "Exclusive" franchise tag they are the only team that can deal with Haynesworth. That's the tag we used on Woodson for two years. We finally just cut ties in the third year.

With Tim Brown we used the "Non-Exclusive" tag and then matched the offer he received from Dallas.

H

4:31 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

As we approach the FA market, just over a week away, what does anyone know about the Raiders and their possible internal strife? Nary a word has been spoken to the media to defuse the rumors and speculation. Will this hurt the Raiders efforts in the FA market?

Eric Gilmore of the CCTimes makes this statement:

“The longer Davis and Kiffin maintain their bunker mentality and avoid publicly addressing the reports and rumors, the harder it will be to attract free agents.”

The obvious counterpoint is mo’ money. But does that mean the Raiders will have to overpay for free agents? And what about the quality of players attracted to the Raiders?

I would dare guess (at the risk of being set straight by Blanda) that most players on the Raiders roster don’t know anymore than we know, and that the media reports (bogus or not) have not been defused for even the players’ benefit.

So either Kiffin will need to reach deep into his bag of recruiting tricks, or we can expect to sign money-hungry players, perhaps even those with high moral standards such as Randy Moss?

Here’s a link to the article.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/raiders/ci_8303061

5:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A really good Jason Jones article:

http://www.sacbee.com/static/
weblogs/raiders/

Psycho

6:30 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

suddenly there is a change of story on spygate in the media now that bellichick has made a statement of, "i misinterpreted the rule."
it has gone from everyone has done it, to how could he have known the rule, to bellichick is a victim of circumstance, crap!
he did it because the year before the jets were doing it to him. mangini worked with bellichick, and claims he did this the whole time working with him. mangini learned from the best and beat him at his own game; and now he's a victim of circumstance. bologna! he's a cheater who was caught, and the league covered up for him. it's the opposite effect on the raiders. when the raiders cheat, every rule in the book is changed against them. this was already in the rule book, bellichick bent it, claims "i didn't know", and the league/media pats him on the back and says, "that's okay. there there." grrrrrrrr, i hope this franchise falls apart.

6:39 AM  
Blogger H said...

NYRaider,

The problem with that statement is the available free agents targeted by the Raiders will be brought in at Raider expense. They will be able to see first hand, and ask questions.

They won't have to rely on some media provided perception of what is or is not happening.

So far a slow news week. But, look for Peter King and Adam Schefter to be working the phone lines to their source in Denver for what is happening in Alameda.

H

9:27 AM  
Anonymous LK said...

Panty-
like McFadden but we're deep at RB plus he's been in a couple scuffles with the Federales...no thanks

12:00 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

H- a fair statement, but I implied as much by stating that Kiffin will need to use all his recruiting skills. For those potential FA who may pose the question directly, of course the Raiders are going to offer the "right" answer... but perhaps that answer isn't anymore true than the media reports.

Do you think the Raiders have offered any consolation to their own players regarding the barrage of so-called bogus media reports? I think some of these guys are concerned, and they may have every reason to be, IMO.

2:40 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

NYRaider....

Most likely it's a topic at the training facility in Allameda where the players continue to work out....It's not like they are baned from the "InsideConection"...I would expect it gathers alot of jokes and posibly some insentive in the weight room...."Fuel for da Fire" that needs to burn in the players to get up for the season....

H:

Thanks for the insite...I did not understand the "ExclusiveRights" thing...Shame because it would be a fun thing to see the "OldMan" work some evil again....

IK:

I saw the "Baggage" problem but like it....it is said he plays with a "NastySreek" and that can show up also off the field...Personally I like that type of player and the Raiders were well known for their "NastyAgressive" football in the past....That is much more appealing than a "Cryer" like NoMoss who is a pussy and afraid to take or give a hit.....McFadden is a "Gamer"....He will take on a tackler and continue fighting thru a hit and not go down easy....That to me is a measurement of "Heart"...which is something we lack in OakTown for some time....

PantyRaider....AgressinoAgression!!!!

4:20 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

DE #91 Ebenezer Ekuban Donko's
Is he worth going after as a FA...Addition by Subtraction...Rated as the #3 FA DE....


DE #90 Justin Smith Cinncy
Rated #2 FA DE....RFA...
DE #94 Marques Douglas Winer's
Rated #4 FA DE...
DE #71 Jovan Haye Tampa Bay
Rated #5...

DT's
#91R Chuck Darby Seattle


OT's...
#76 Flozell Adams Dallas
#69 Jordan Gross Carolina
#75 Sean Locklear Seattle
#70 Travelle Wharton Carolina

http://profootballexperts.scout.com/a.z?s=
211&p=9&c=12&yr=2008&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=
16&pid=88&pg=2

PantyRaider...JustLookin!!!!

5:21 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

Here they have some good McFadden Video....Geeeeeeezzz....That dude is "FAST".....

http://www.fantasyfootballxtreme.com/nfl-
draft-info/2008-nfl-draft-prospects
#darrenmcfadden

5:48 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

which is precisely why we MUST take him. fargas signing or NOT! besides, just because fargas is resigned doesn't rule out any trades.

just watching the first video alone makes your mouth water when you think of this immense weapon russell will have. he alone will keep our defense OFF the field!

yeah, yeah i know we need DL help. al's done more dumb ass things before like draft a kicker 16th overall in the first round. this pick won't be such a reach but OMG what a weapon!

6:48 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

According to PFT, the salary cap is at 116K andddddd...

Oakland Raiders
$95,700,000


I saw 4 teams less than 90K.

6:53 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Raiders have a ton of cap space. Hopefully, they will use it wisely. There are far better quality FA OL and DL this year than last year.

I must say, though, I wouldn't freak out if the Raiders took McFadden with their top pick. I'd like to see Chris Long as a Raider, and I also believe there are 2 DTs in the draft that can help us immediately, but the idea of having such a weapon as McFadden is intriguing. All I can think of is Adrian Peterson.

Plus, I don't think we're as deep at RB as we'd like to believe. Jordan is gone (please!) and Rhodes might be trade bait. Bush was mistakenly not tested last year, and hasn't played in over two years. Fargas is a crash dummy and, while apparently durable, may prove to be injury-prone if he continues his kamikaze ways.

I guess I'm just not so focused on one player like I was last year with Russell. Plus, I don’t think Chris Long makes it to the third pick. If he does, I’d take him over McFadden.

7:36 PM  
Blogger H said...

Gary,

I think that 95,700,000.00 you saw for the Raiders includes Sapp, Jordan, Rhodes, Sims, Porter and a few others that probably will not be there in a week or so.

Sapp hasn't file his official retirement papers so his next year salary is still on the books. Jordan will probably be released along with Sims and, thus far, I haven't heard if Porter has officially voided the last year of his contract.

When all is said and done I think they will be over 30 mill under the cap.

For the McFadden fans, he can also throw a pretty good halfback pass.

What will be interesting, with Fargas, Bush and possibly Rhodes on the roster at draft time; will the Raiders consider a draft day trade if he is still on the board?

Dallas might be willing to give up both of their first round picks to get him. I would definitely entertain the idea.

The scuttlebutt around Atlanta is they have targeted McFadden and are having every Rabbi, Priest and Monk lighting candles all over the area so they can win the coin flip.

H

7:45 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

if mcfadden is around at 3 or 4, i say we take him. fargas is made of GLASS! fargas? a starting nfl RB? fargas? the porcelain doll fargas? where was he for the last couple of games? errrrrr - HURT as usual man. this guy (mcfadden) can do so much more than just be a RB. he can line up at receiver, he can run outside and inside. like H said, he can throw a halfback option pass. man, what a weapon he could be for your boy russell. if mcfadden is in the house, the pressure's off russell.

BUT if some team is willing to give it up as in turn around and bend over we should take it. multiple picks are always a good thing.

11:54 PM  
Anonymous LK said...

PR:
I like guys with nasty streaks also and I can't say I'd be broken up if we took McFadden...but I still hope we go on the D side...we need some nastiness there also...look for clues in free agency

9:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great news! F.Washington was arrested for a domistic charge, with red marks on his girlfriend.

http://www.mysuncoast.com/Global/
story.asp?S=7898610&nav=menu577_2_1

Psycho

12:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Domestic - Psycho

12:39 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

"CoinFlip"....What day does it take place....

If the BlackBirds of the South are turning to "VoooooDoooo-BooooGaLoooo" to win the flip than the RaiderNation needs to pull out some good-ol'Nastiness and call upon the "Powers-o-da-DarkSide"...Oh! lords of the dense darkness.....

McFabulous runs away from everyone...He clears the hole so quickly that the DB's -n- LB's are grabbing air....their angle of pursuit is totally wrong and he is not where they expect him to be....Put that element on our "O" where we were the #6 team in rushing and we will be the #1 hands down....

The "D"s will have to flood the box to try to control McFabulous and that will open things up for the "RocketMan" to go up top....now if we can just get some better weapons for him to throw to....

McFabulous will make it easier on the "OL" pass-blocking because the "D" will always have to check-down on the run first and they will bite on the play-action....Than McFabulous escapes and is a target of the "RocketMan" down-field or underneath-coverage....

PantyRaider...WhatDreamsAreMadeOf!!!!!

3:08 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

NFL.com has some video footage about the draft but it ain't very good....

http://www.nfl.com/videos;jsessionid=
6060907C12502C96027D5E828BE965D8?
videoId=09000d5d806a7d2e



In 38 games at Arkansas, McFadden carried 785 times for 4,590 yards (5.85-yard average) and 41 touchdowns. He grabbed 46 passes for 365 yards (7.9 avg) and two scores, as he also returned 38 kickoffs for 926 yards (24.4 avg) and a touchdown. He completed 14-of-22 passes (63.6%) for 205 yards, seven touchdowns and one interception while recording five solo tackles with a fumble recovery.

PantyRaider....WOW!!!!!!

3:41 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

It should come as no surprise, but the Raiders have officially tagged Nnamdi. At this juncture, it's the obvious move.

At the very least, it's good to know there's a pulse in the building (the GM office in particular). I was beginning to wonder.

PR- those stats on McFadden are super-human. 41 rushing TDs in 38 games and 7 passing TDs on 22 passes? If we can get D help through FA, maybe we can afford to pick this freak of nature.

3:48 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

NYRaider:

How would it look to have 2 "Freeks" in the same backfield..."JRus" -n- "McFabulous"....

PantyRaider...Where's Da WR!!!!!

4:01 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

I still don't think we'll go with Run DMC, even though he's getting more intriguing. I liked the suggestion someone had (Panty?) to trade down to the Cowboys (if DMC is still available when it gets to us) for both of their first round picks.

Washington was arrested? They guy seems to have some issues, and attitude may be what caused Kiffin to bench him. However, on the positive side, Rout showed a lot of improvement this year, and he may be on the upswing ala Fargas.

And, as has been mentioned, we still don't know that Fargas can hold up. Even this year, his best year, he was banged up for most of the year, and finished the season on the bench with an injury. We still don't know what Bush has (but Kiffin has an idea). Our only known commodity at RB is Rhodes. It all depends on how much Kiffin is willing to gamble, and which side of the flip he come down on.

First step in the right direction is that they used the "exclusive" tag on Nnamdi. In recent years, teams negotiating with non-exclusive tags have inserted a poison pill that the original team can't match, thereby obtaining the player.

4:29 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Hey, H, good news! They slapped the non-exclusive tag on Haynesworth. That means we can negotiate a contract with a "poison pill" clause. The only problem there is if we get him, we have to give up two first round picks. I don't think it would be worth that.

5:27 PM  
Blogger H said...

Blanda,

I don't think Haynesworth is worth two first round picks.

As for "porcelain" Fargas. He absolutely busted his ass for this team when others sulked. He will actually block someone in max protect. He went back into the game after he tore his MCL.

Had we been in the playoff hunt he probably would have put a brace on it and continued to play. MCL's aren't the same as ACL's.

He took one hell of a beating because of his style of play and kept coming back.

Some of you may not like him, but he showed me something last season. I'd get in a foxhole with him. If I were going to war tomorrow I'd take one of him over ten Moss or TO's.

H

6:53 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

In my mind our 2 biggest areas of deficiency are run D and offensive passing attack. Run DMC is a pure 'luxury/glamour' pick.

The only reason I would want to pick Run DMC is IF we are going to trade his rights to pick up more picks and a starter. Otherwise, IMO, it doesn't make alot of sense to select him.

Our running attack is system oriented similar to Denver and Atlanta where you plug in a back that fits the system. It doesn't require a "superstar" to be highly productive.

One of the other reasons I'm opposed to taking Run DMC is we have only 5 TOTAL picks or 3 high value picks (1st, 2nd, 4th rounds). If we use our 1st round pick on Run DMC that leaves only the 2nd and 4th rounders to fill multiple holes.

Areas to fill:
True DE (run stopper + pass rusher)
DT
LT
WR (multiple slots to fill)
SS
SLB

If you were to prioritize each of the major offensive & defensive categories, how would you break it down in terms of importance for improvement? This is how I would line it up:

* Run defense
* Pass offense
* Pass rush; defense
* Pass protection; offense
* Pass attack; defense
* Run attack; offense

I'm very confident with Knapp, Cable, and Rathman plus the pieces we already have in place that our rushing attack will be as productive as last season ... Run DMC, IMO, would not be a prudent pick.

8:06 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

h and calico,
how can kiffin and or davis put all their eggs in one basket with fargas? especially with his injury history. the guy is ALWAYS freakin' hurt. if al woulda asked me, i would have let him and jordan walk and keep rhodes. that signing just baffles me. i understand he's got a great attitude and works hard and all but geez, he could break a fingernail and miss a few games for cryin' out loud!

10:45 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

McFabulous:

Evidently very unselfish....he split time with another 1000yd rusher and did not complain...so could you imagine a line-up with McFabulous-M.Bush-Fargas....Now that would add up to the #1 Rushing Attack in the whole freakin NFL.....

CalicoJack:

I understand and agree with most of what you wrote but you miss the main point here....How one player addition could assist in making all the other weakness less of a weakness....DL-OL-WR would all have the greater amount of pressure removed from them....

How So:

"DL"-Can pin their ears back and bring the heat and not have to worry about the "O" being able to score points....other "O"s will have to scrap their running games to play catch-up so the "DL" will not have to try to stop the run on every down....

"OL"-With such a strong running threat the "D"s will have to flood the box and check-down on run first and be eager to bite on the play-action....this will take pressure off the "OL" in pass-protection....

"WR"-With so many playing the run they will draw more single-coverages..."RB" are a threat out of the backfield too....

What other single player could have so much impact on our team....even while he is on the side-lines the other team has to worry about him and change what they do accordingly....

And the other point is that I do NOT see a high-profile "DL"man in this draft class like there have been in the past....This is a deep group but does NOT have a totally dominating player at this position...These are "SR"s who stayed in school to fully develop because they were NOT demonstrating the dominance as "JR"s to be high 1st rd picks...

PantyRaider....Take-the-Best!!!!

10:47 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

re: mcfadden - if a franchise running back is there we take him. especially with what this guy can do. no ifs ands or buts! you don't pass up superman if he's there!!!!!!

i doubt it so we'll get our DL anyway!

10:48 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

#99 Darwin Walker "DT" Chicago

His option was not picked up so he is an URFA with 7 yrs exp....

There are players out there in FA that can fill the hole for another season....

PantyRaider...Take-da-Best-in-da-Draft!!!

11:05 PM  
Blogger H said...

Scorpio,

1. Calico Jack is right. At this juncture McFadden is a luxury.

2. Al and Kiffin didn't ask you, or me for that matter.

3. All the eggs are not in one basket. Rhodes is still there along with Bush.

4. If Bush is fully recovered he was rated just behind McFadden before he broke his leg.

5. If we take McFadden and all the McFadden fans are jumping for glee, don't whine and complain about the run defense next year and how we should have addressed it during the draft when we had the chance.

6. A guy bust his ass for you and bedcomes the best player on offense, and is loyal to the team and you want to just drop him in the dumpster because he was injured. Hell, we've been salavating over the potential of Haynesworth being a free agent and he missed several games.

7. Last time I checked, football was a contact sport. Players get injured.

H

4:23 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

H- I don’t think anyone here would question Fargas’ heart and ability. My concern (shared by many I believe) is just what you said, his style of running....which can lead to durability issues and injury.

Calico- I agree with your assessment and order of priority. However, I don’t believe McFadden is a pure luxury. Here are the specific areas where I believe he immediately improves our team.

1- RB

2- Receiver out of the backfield for screens and check downs.

3- WR - often lined up at WR, and may provide a deep threat we don’t presently have.

4- Halfback option. Not really a trick play when you have 7 TD passes in 38 games. That’s a better clip than LT, and teams will always have to respect that ability or get burned.

5- KO returns, possibly even punt returns.

Basically, he’s a one-man show, and maybe our next Marcus Allen.

That said, I can't argue that Run D, not Run-DMc, is our first priority.

5:49 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

rhodes is unhappy, we may not be able to count on him, especially if he gets the playing time that he did this last season. that signing baffles me as well.
mcfadden, i think, is as good as marcus allen was, and can have that type of effect on the game.
i think he'd be a good pick, but it wouldn't fill our needs; so i'm torn.
chris long, jake long, jordy nelson, sedrick ellis (in that order) is who we need to focus on.
anyone know when the coin toss for #3 or #4 against the falcons is, or if it's happened already?

6:06 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

to show that i'm not just crazy, and something most of us already know, this is in light of our "dysfuntional" offseason (as reported by eric gilmore of cct); and why we should take these "sources, rumors, and i heard" statements with a grain of salt.
this unedited statement comes from mark cuban (dallas mavericks owner) on his blog, www.blogmaverick.com (all apologies for the posting of a website).
"Peter Vescey's ridiculous assertion that Avery asked me to trade Dirk. Even in the Nellie years where we discussed trading every other player on the roster, Dirk was never mentioned. There has never been a discussion of trading Dirk during my tenure, EVER. Vescey's source is an out and out liar.

The thing about dealing with the media in this business is that they thrive on rumors and get bored with reality.

For example. Several local media outlets had no interest in sending anyone to New Orleans to cover the All Star game or Dirk's appearance there. That changed once the trade rumors started. Then all of the sudden, every media person they could find was there. Newscasts led with the rumors. Newspapers speculated and comments on the impact of the rumors if true or not true. There was reporting on rumors about rumors. All of which is fine. I get that and in many many ways, its good for the Mavs and the NBA. It drives interest."

my favorite line in all of this is, "The thing about dealing with the media in this business is that they thrive on rumors and get bored with reality." this is true with our beloved raiders. they get bored with the reality of what type of owner al davis really is. mike shanarat is the only owner i know that despises al davis, who has actually coached/played under him. even marcus allen, though he doesn't agree with how he was treated, has the upmost respect for al, even now.
they don't want to report the good things that al davis does with the team, they want to report CONTROVERSY! tell me what owner does not have a say in how his team is ran? at some point all owners have a say in the business matters of their team. does this make al davis completely clean slate of these things? absolutely not. but take these reports of "turmoil" between he, kiffin, ryan, etc with a grain of salt.
i do think kiffin and davis have their issues with each other, but they are working together through those things, and despite of those things. it doesn't mean they're going to quit or be fired from these issues; it appears from their standpoint that whatever issues there were (and i believe we truly do not know what the issues were), they've moved on to more important matters.
it happens all the time, in our work, homes, friends, and life. we have disagreements with people, and we don't always see eye to eye. but do you let that disagreement hinder your relationships? most of the time probably not. most of the time we all probably want to work things out first. even if we agree to move on (if it is important enough), we try to work through the issues. most of the time, we leave it as we agree to disagree. even on this website.
the perspective. if there was a reporter who reported on the ongoings of raider take, and comments on raider take; they're not going to report that everything is holding together. they are going to report on the controversies between blanda and bama, or calico and nyraider, and scorpio and everyone else; and talk about how their are personal issues between these parties, and raider take is falling apart. is it far from the truth? yes. does it mean there are no disagreements on this blog? far from it.
is raider organization falling apart? far from it. is the relationship between davis, kiffin, and ryan falling apart? far from it. does this mean they are always in agreement? no, but what it does mean, and what they have proven, is they are working together through these disagreements.
that's my grain of savory salt for the day.

7:14 AM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Scorpio: Who said we are putting all our proverbial eggs in the Fargas basket?

Rhodes showed his worth as a backup by running for 100+ yards in his only 2 starts vs. arguably the best run Ds in the league (JAX, SD).

Bush will have an entire off season, training camp, exhibition season to become a viable complimentary back.

Echemandu is certainly a serviceable #4 back.

On top of that, who is to say we dont get get a vetearan RB off the scrap heap for a low cost, short term contract. Look at teams like Mia & Atl who are dumping players left and right.

I'm quite certain that there will be a solid nucleus of 4 to 5 RBs on the depth chart. If Fargas gets hurt, the show goes on with Rhodes, Bush, and whoever else we have on the roster.

My main point and I will say this 1000X until I'm blue in the face ... #1 priority, no ifs, buts, or ands about it is to IMPROVE our run D. Everything else is secondary UNTIL we shore up this area.

12 playoff teams in 2007. 11 finished in the top half in Run D.
Pitt #3; Wash #4; Tenn #5; Dal #6; NYG #8; NE #10; JAX #11; Sea #12; GB #13; Indy #15; SD #16.

The only playoff team that didn't finish in the top half of the league was TBay at #17.

Raiders run D:
#31 ranked 145.9 ypg; 4.8 ypc

Raiders run O:
#6 ranked 130.4 ypg; 4.1 ypc

So let me get this straight ... although our run offense was ranked #6 in the league, this should be our top priority? Sorry but I don't follow that line of reasoning.

7:30 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

The concern about Fargas' durability is real. His susceptibility to injury is mostly due to his upright running style. It seemed, in 2006, that he'd started to lower his stance, but it's crept back up again. Hopefully the coaches can break the habit, but changing such things could lead to increased fumbling or prove to be less effective for Fargas.

But even with that concern, we are hardly putting all of our eggs in that basket. If Ech is real (and I really believe a zone blocking system suits Ech), I project him as the #3 on the first day of the regular season. I believe Kiffin will gamble and cut both Rhodes and Jordan (or perhaps trade Rhodes). Bush will start the season as #2, and Fargas (if he's healthy) will be the starter. If Fargas can't get through the preseason healthy, I think then they will retain Rhodes.

There is no question that we're gambling a bit on our RB position. But we have enough there to not be forced into the McFadden pick. I agree with Calico. He's a luxury. This season, DEFENSE FIRST.

8:36 AM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

H said and i disagree:
"All the eggs are not in one basket. Rhodes is still there along with Bush."

all the eggs ARE in 1 basket if you make an expensive gamble on a RB with a rich injury history!

H also said:
"A guy bust his ass for you and bedcomes the best player on offense, and is loyal to the team and you want to just drop him in the dumpster because he was injured."

he busts his ass but what good is it if your busted EXPENSIVE ass is on the bench?"

calico said: "So let me get this straight ... although our run offense was ranked #6 in the league, this should be our top priority? "

don't you guys see? look i wasn't a big fan of drafting russell. i wanted johnson or quinn. ok so he's here, johnson is not. you've got to put weapons at his disposal. why? BECAUSE HE HAS ABSOLUTELY ZERO WEAPONS! NONE! defense? we won't even need a defense because mcfadden'll keep our D off the field with his running and other skills. besides #6 is good. but #1 is even better!

look fellas, it doesn't matter because mcfadden won't be there when we pick. so you'll get your DL pick. if that's the case, i hope its ellis. dorsey has an injury history too and i'm not sold on SOH. big dad's names don't necessarily mean the son'll be a star to follow in his footsteps (see walter payton's kid). the mannings got lucky both boys made it. no such guarantees with chris long.

9:27 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

In Chris Long's defense (pun intended), he has his own resume. It would not be because of his dad that we draft him... man has skills.

Honestly, I'm excited at the prospect of adding one of the top 3 or 4 players in college to our roster, who ever it ends up being.

9:53 AM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

NY - i see that you'll be happy with any of the top picks. actually i will be too. its just that mcfadden's talent is so obvious. russell hAS absolutely no tools to do his job let alone to relieve that huge load on his shoulders. you have a top and i mean THE top running game with a multi-faceted talent like mcfadden and suddenly he makes the entire offense better all by himself. take a look at our division. in sd you have LT, in denver you have henry, in KC they have johnson. here we have fargas. fargas. that name doesn't instill fear in the opposing team like that freak mcfadden. and if he's hurt (fargas that is) then there goes that expensive and risky signing taking his seat at the end of the bench as usual just like he did in the final games of '07.

its ok guys, don't worry about mcfadden. we'll get your DL.

10:12 AM  
Blogger H said...

Nate,

I’m hurt, you didn’t include me in your list of disagreeing voices. Just kidding. But, your point is exactly correct. Along with your Marcus Allen reference you can include Ken Stabler. He didn’t always agree with Al Davis, but he has patched things up and always respected the man. He still refers to him as “Mr. Davis”.

One more thing on McFadden. I said this a few months ago. The team with the leading rusher in the league rarely get’s to the Super Bowl. We didn’t get there when Allen led the league. In the final four teams their running backs ranked as follows, SD-1, NE-23, GB-19, NYG-15. Only one in the top 14. The average placement of running backs on playoff teams was 14.

Compare that to the lowest ranked defense of the playoff teams was Seattle at 15. Think about that, 12 of the top 15 defenses made the playoffs. The Cheatriots and the Giants were both top 10 defenses. Yes, I realize we had the 3rd ranked defense and only won 2 games in 2006. But, this year is probably more a reflection of what the defense really is.

Fixing the defensive line when it comes to the run is imperative. Defense is the quickest way back to the top. Left tackle and wide receiver are behind the DL, and a running back like McFadden is way down the list. At least for me.

H

10:14 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
1. Fargas signing a mistake. Guy runs hard but will not carry a game AND win it on his shoulders. McFadden will be the best back in the league in short time. THE BEST BACK IN THE NFL. Played at Arkansas sans a QB & offensive scheme and still looked a lot like Bo Jackson. A huge mistake by us to pass on him for Fargas. How many years has Fargas been with us? He's had one decent year in his nfl career, while the other guy will probably make it to our spot in the draft and will be, barring injury, the best back in the nfl. I feel we'll regret our decision by the fourth game of the season.
2. Went too far with Namdi... couldn't we have taken the lesser franchise tag... I still feel that an awesome front seven on D is the way to go. CB's are not as relevant as they once were. They need only be adequate if your scheme and front seven are good.
3. Mayock's draft analysis is a bit puzzling. In almost every category USC has one of the best players... if they were THAT loaded and the guys were THAT good at nearly every position, how come they lost two games?

10:41 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

One of the things that Calico and I have agreed on is that Davis doesn't like "yes" men, he likes people who have knowledge, are confident in the knowledge they have, and are willing to stand up for what they believe. Davis does not think it is necessary for everyone to get along. It's okay if they argue.

I have no doubt that Davis and Kiffin have their issues, because I think Kiffin is likely the same way. So I don't care if they throw heavy objects at each other, as long as they are in deep discussion on how to improve this team.

10:47 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Here's some potentially good news. The Cowboys have used their one Franchise Tag on Hamlin, which means they've left LT Flozell Adams unprotected in free agency. Adams is a four time pro-bowler. The one problem, as I see it, is that Adam is the size of a house at 340lbs. The cut-back blocking scheme calls for lighter, quicker O-Linemen. Plus, with a LT that wide, the RBs will have to take a couple of extra steps to get to the outside.

11:46 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

According to JMac...

"According to one assistant, things have 'quieted down' after what was said to be a 'rocky' few weeks."

So, in other words - we can't back up anything we've said, so we'll just say it wasn't as bad as we thought it was, not that it wasn't true.

I don't give a flying leap about "rocky." "Can't work together" is what would upset me. I expect Davis' relationships with his HCs to be "rocky."

11:55 AM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

RaiderNate75:

Love you MAN......Great take....But your all wrong about McFabulous....and there ain't a "GREAT" "DL"man on thye board...There is a "GREAT" "RB" on the board and I say "Takem"....and if we have depth at the "RB" position than use it for "Trade-Bate" to get the "Veteran DLmen" we need....so it would be an upgrade to our "RunningGame" now and for the future of the team and help the "D"....So now....What the hell do ya all have to say to that.....ya want to argue about it...."Bring it on"....

I just love "Contraversy" don't you.....But really....I f we can make a pick this year that adds an ellement of greatness to the teams for years to come than we would be completely foolish to pass on it.....It's not about our needs for one season it's about the future of the team....

PantyRaider....Believer....

11:56 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

br, regarding jmac's article, refer to my "grain of salt." he names none of his "sources" again, which tells me the whole story was an overblown fabrication of the truth.
panty, i'm not wrong, i've never been wrong. :D just kidding. like i said about the whole thing, i'm torn with it. with mcfadden we would have a solid 1-2 punch like bo and marcus, but look how that ended. marcus shipped off to kc and burned our @$$e$, and bo knows bionic hip replacement. those 2 great rb's together could not take us to the promise land. my opinion though is that if bo focused solely on football, he would have a ring with the raiders. by far he was the better back of the two; but marcus has the ring.
i think offensively, we need o-line and a play-maker receiver. defensively, a tackle, safety, another outside linebacker, and defensive end in that order.
players that will help stop the run defensively, and players that will stretch the passing field is, not "should be", but it IS our top priority

12:11 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

BUT if the player need is NOT the "Greatest" Player on the board and the "Greatest" Player on the board could and would help the team for years to come....

Than:....

Than:....



"Take da Bastard"

12:16 PM  
Blogger H said...

Bama,

USC was hit with injuries. Starting QB was out for several games. As I said, it's a contact sport.

The knock on Burgess before he came to the Raiders was he easily injured. Raider fans were actually complaining we shouldn't sign him because of that. Now we'er supposed to give him a big raise.

On Fargas,

"Guy runs hard but will not carry a game AND win it on his shoulders." I seem to remember the second Chef game, fourth quarter, we got the ball back with the lead needing at least three first downs if memory serves. He got all three inclucing one of around 14-15 yards on third and long.

His MCL tear was a Grade I tear. Had it been earlier in the season he wouldn't have even been placed on the injured reserve list and may have only missed one or two games. Many times when a player rehabs an injury, they come back stronger and are less susciptible to injury.

And, I guess Kiffin is an idiot too. He was the one who publicly stated he wanted Fargas back.

In the last six seasons the top rusher in the league has come away with zero rings. During that time the top three backs, in my opinion, have been LaDainian Tomlinson, Shaun Alexander (until he was injured, and Tiki Barber (until he retired). Collectively they have zero rings.

Super Bowl winning teams run the ball well, but rarely have the top back on their team. Which is why I believe the 2000 team was actually our best bet to win the Super Bowl. We had the best running game in the league, but not the best back. In 2002 we basically abandoned the run.

H

12:45 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

Ok!!!...Ok!!!...

Name me the "DLman" who is a "Great" prospect this year...the one who is a "Complete" player and "Merrits" the #3 pick...the one who has NO glarring "Weakness" in his game and brings a "Huge" Up-Side...

Believe me I am looking for it but just don't see it in this draft class....SOH was non-existant in his Jr year and neither of the top "DT"s were seen as being "Great" players as Jr's or they would have been tempted to come out early...They are all Sr's who needed more time to develop...

last year at #8 Atlanta drafted Jamaal Anderson - DE who was a Jr...at #10 Houston drafted Amobi Okoye - DT age 19....at #17 Denver took Jarvis Moss - DE as a Jr...if these guys had stayed in scholl until "08" would we be talking about the top picks this year or talking about them....There were 7 "DLmen" taken in the 1st rd 3 Jr's and 4 Sr's....

So in the "08" draft class who is the Jr who is stirring up interest....the kind of interest that a Jr player like Mcfabulous is getting....

PantyRaider...NonBeliever!!!!

12:45 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

Small follow-up comment....

There are some Jr "DLmen" in this draft class that we could take in the 2nd rd who may have a lot of up-side down the rd and they would not cost as much against the cap this year or in the future....This way we could save the big bucks for the "Skill" position players who add greater dimension to our team....

Also....it's clear our need is for more than just one player on the "DL"....Sapp is gone and the other "DT"s have not proven themselves yet nor has the Rt "DE" so we need 3 players at least and we will not get them all in this draft so this is an area of "Long Term Development"....NOT a short term fix....so "DON"T sell out the team in a panic to fix a problem quickly....

PantyRaider....NonBelievingNonBeliver!!!!

1:28 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

Steelers exec Kevin Colbert says this year’s pool of tackles is the strongest he has seen in 24 years and that teams could grab a good one at any point in the first three rounds. That certainly played a role in the Dolphins lopping off L.J. Shelton and his big base salary.

OT overload: 49ers GM Scot McCloughan said the deepest free agency position is offensive tackle and noted teams will have to make a tough call when it comes to the draft, where tackle might also be the deepest position. Do you spend on a reliable veteran or bank on a blue-ribbon rookie?

We should be able to address that position in the 2nd rd if we so chouse or go after a vet....

PantyRaider....QualityHelp!!!!!

1:44 PM  
Blogger H said...

PantyRaider,

Glenn Dorsey was first team all conference and an All-American as a Junior. He considered declaring for the draft but decided to stay for a shot at the national championship.

Sedrick Ellis was a two time All-American, junior and senior years.

Chris Long was All-ACC his junior year and first team All-American his senior year and won the Ted Hendricks award.

Mario Williams of Houston came out as a junior. He was the first pick in the 2006 draft. Had a lousy rookie season, but was one of the top sackers in the league last season.

The fact that the three above stayed for their senior years may make them more productive their first year.

What good is the best running back if your defense can't stop a team of Upperclass Twits of the Year when they run the ball.

A number 5 defense combined with a number 15 offense should get you to the post season 8 times out of 10.

As for offensive tackle, my preference is free agency (known quantity) and keep developing Mario Henderson.

H

2:27 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

I think it's kinda ironic that the IAAFers usually complain that Al conducts so much of his business on pure impulse instead of sensibilities, and most of them now are so stridently in favor of the impulse decision to take McFadden even though we were already one of the top rated running teams in the NFL, and maybe more importantly, we already might have a premier RB on our roster in Bush.

I wonder if we do draft McFadden... will it be "all Kiffin" or will it be "crazy Al" drafting a position that isn't a need? I'd look it as the latter.

This will be another very interesting draft!

For the record... I wouldn't HATE it if we draft McFadden ONLY if it's very clear that Bush's career is over... or he will never be anything besides an average back. Otherwise defense is the only thing that makes a lick of sense. Will Al draft impulse (making his haters happy) or sensibly? Only time will tell!

3:10 PM  
Blogger H said...

Gary,

Most of the complainers were complaining mightly about the run defense just two months ago. They also complained about the Raiders taking players who were not a "need".

Now they want the #6 rushing team and the #30 run defense to ignore the defense and take a running back. Go figure.

H

3:34 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Gary:

One of the things I do know about Al is that when it comes to the draft, his philosophy is to take the best available player, regardless of need or position. If McFadden is on the board when we pick, and we pick him, I think it would be because of the Al influence in the draft. That is, of course, if our coaches and scouts at the combine consider McFadden the best player on the board.

But Kiffin has stated that he's a big Fargas fan. And Kiffin is one of the few who has seen what Bush has to offer in an NFL uniform (at least an NFL practice jersey). This leads me to suspect that Kiffin will likely look to address one of our more pressing needs. If we draft a D-lineman, I think that will be purely Kiffin's decision (unless our coaches and scouts at the combine determine that the D-lineman is the best player on the board). Much can be learned by watching how this unfolds.

H, I agree with you that it's best to find the OT we need in free agency.

It is also apparent to me that the Raiders greatest flaw which led to 19-61 has been our inability to DEVELOPE young talent. This should be another avenue where Kiffin excels. Indeed, we got a taste of it watching the development of JRuss. On the down side, Higgins never showed any development, and that explains the addition of Lofton.

We also showed a continued failure to develop the young talent along the D-line. One wonders if we will see a coaching change made there before the beginning of camp.

On a final note, Sapp has not yet tendered his retirement papers. Could it be that Kiffin and/or Ryan is attempting to get him to play out one more season. Perhaps as a player/coach? I would applaud using Sapp in such a way, but I would not want to bring him back to start. If he starts, I think he then stands in the way of development.

3:36 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

H said- “The team with the leading rusher in the league rarely get’s to the Super Bowl. We didn’t get there when Allen led the league.”

Yeah, but didn’t he lead the league in all-purpose yards that year? That’s kind of what McFadden offers. Just a thought.

3:42 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

One added thought...

While many here have complained about how little information we hear from Raiders' HQ, one has to recognize it has served it's purpose. One of the most prized pieces of knowledge in the off season is who each of the top five teams will select in the draft. Nobody seems to have any real clue which way we'll go, and that can only help when it comes to pre-draft and draft day trades.

3:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
H, Gary... some have opinions contrary to your own. You guys just can't deal with that. So I like McFadden...big deal. I like him because he's the best RB that's come around in awhile, that's all. We're not going to solve our run defense problems in one fell swoop with our 1st round pick. Not even close, so quit thinking that way. We have a mile to go on that side of the ball, and it starts with the scheme. Until we change the scheme nothing's getting better. I bet the scheme was Kiffin's whole beef with SOB. Dorsey will be gone, as will SOH by the time we pick. So, my humble opinion says take McFadden becuase he's a stud and will take heat off Russell... did you watch the Vikings any this year? What a difference the kid from Oklahoma made. They almost made the playoffs with Tavarious Jackson at QB. Do you realize what an impact the Peterson selection has had for them?
I just don't like dumping a ton of money on a guy (fargas) that did very little in his first 2 or 3 seasons and then in a contract year ran like a kamikaze, got hurt, and finally won some of our fans undying respect... a big contract. I think it's a mistake.
Just saying it now so you can rag me later when I'm wrong, or NOT accuse me of "hindsight" analysis when Mcfadden romps and fargas flops.

3:49 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

And a possibility that nobody here has considered... I actually doubt that it's true, but it's a possibility.

Suppose it was the Raiders themselves who started the rumors about the Davis/Kiffin feud, and that Davis had stripped Kiffin of all authority over personnel decisions. The benefit of having the rest of the league believe that is the assumption that it would create that Davis is making all of the picks, and Davis' tendencies are largely known, but Kiffin's are not.

While it may seem silly to many, NFL teams treat their draft strategy like State secrets.

3:50 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Bama7, you're being a little unfair to Fargas. He didn't just show us what he has last season. He was our leading runner two years in a row. In 2006 he started only, I think, two games but wound up with over 700 yards rushing. You also make it sound like Fargas was just waiting around for his contract year. I'm not certain why you make the assumption of bad character just because you don't prefer a particular player. Fargas has been, in fact, honored by not just Kiffin, but the entire team for his attitude, his courage, and his dedication. I'll go with their conclusions about his character. They are a little closer to the situation.

3:58 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
So, my humble opinion says take McFadden becuase he's a stud and will take heat off Russell...
>>>>


The same could have been said about Bush before his injury. Thats my point (which you ignored).


>>>
did you watch the Vikings any this year? What a difference the kid from Oklahoma made
>>>>


...and with one of the best run defenses in the NFL already in place.

You do these things in pieces, one thing at a time... and one of our missing pieces is run defense, not RB.

Now, IF McFadden is a for-sure HOFer AND Bush is damaged goods... then I am with you. Those are two enormous "ifs" IMO. This team can't afford to take such gambles... especially with the Moss gamble already setting us back a few years.

Reggie Bush looked like a sure thing also, and now people are kinda scratching their heads...

4:19 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

attitude, courage, and dedication don't do much if you're hurt and on the pine.

4:21 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Scopio, that's true. But it is also true that having an elite running back to drive up the field doesn't do you too much good if the other side can do the same thing to you with their 3rd string back.

4:47 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

blanda, the other side won't even be on the field if we have a stud like that on offense.

5:00 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Another thing that is true is that none of our 3 Super Bowl wins were because we had an elite RB. In fact in two out of the three, our RB was only average. We won each of those three because the other team's elite RB couldn't run on us.

5:00 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

What... are going for the on-side kick every time we score (and we will have to score every time we have the ball)? The rules call for a change of posession after every score. Are you saying that if we draft McFadden we can cut Lechler loose? We'll never need a punter? You see this as realistic?

5:04 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

BlandaRocked:

Scorpio may have over stated it a little but I have made the same point....

An extremely strong running game with a decent passing game that can strike deep from any place on the field will take most of the pressure off the "D" because they do NOT have to worry about our "O" being able to score points....and I think that is the reason for the horribly conservative play calling that we see from SOB....He is worried about giving up a big play and the team can never make up the points....he did not always call plays this way....his first years were quiet different and that was why we loved him....sense than he has become conservative out of fear and lack of expectation....

A strong "O" that can score every time it touches the ball will force the opposition to play aggressive and not conservative as in Run-Run-Run....Also that is a "Ball-Control-O" and keeps the other teams "O" off the field and takes away their time and makes them desperate....forces them out of their game plan....and beats up their "D" while at the same time RESTING our "D"....Now how long has it been sense we had that situation....a well rested "D" that can PIN it's ears back and afford to take a few chances and bring the heat on every play....

So YES...in effect it keeps the "O" off the field because they face 3-n-outs if they can't throw the ball effectively against what was the #5-6 Pass "D" for a good portion of the year....and will be again if they are rested and not conservative....

What up with the bull-crap about crying...I started following this team and Al back in "62" when I was 12 and I never remember a time that Al was known for drafting just according to "NEED"....We drafted at times according to need when there was NOT a great player on the board at the time we drafted....We passed on a few "QB"s that others considered GREAT but our team did not view the same way and it was an area of need too....And I for one do not "BITCH" about SOB....I simply said why has the guy that we all wanted as "HC" fallen so far so fast....I never gave the answer until now because I was waiting for some of you to evaluate it....which never happened....so now I have said it...."Conservative Fear"....He has been taken completely out of his game-plan because of "FEAR...because this "O" can't score points....So give him an "O" that can score and see what type of "D" he puts on the field....

PantyRaider....Likes-SOB!!!!!

6:28 PM  
Blogger H said...

Bama,

I could say the same thing about you. You can't seem to be able to deal with opinions that differ from yours. We also don't claim to be smarter than all the GM's in the league.

I'm also trying to figure out the ton of money thing. The life of the contract will max out at 14 million. I think only six of that is guaranteed. That's less than what Asomugha will get under the franchise tag for one season.

Six mill is nothing to sneeze at, but compared to what others are getting it's about right for a good second tier running back since not all teams can have a pro bowler starting. It also leaves extra to get those free agent blockers. You know, if we take McFadden we may have to keep Sims.

Scorpio,

With our rushing this year, our TOP was above league average most of the year. Didn't do a lot of good did it?

As for all purpose yardage guys, Fargas was our all purpose yardage leader. Considering he went several games only touching the ball one or two times, and only had 82 yards through the first three games, I'd say he did pretty damn good. And, that doesn't even count the last two games he was out with the MCL.

Heck, why not take Felix Jones, McFadden's backfield mate. He got over a 1,100 yards and had an 9.1 yard per carry average. Or, maybe it was just the system they were running.

Whoever we take it will be a roll of the dice. No matter who it is they could blow up a knee in camp and never play a down, or they could get the big head and get lazy.

By the way, did you know Ken Stabler was a wasted pick. We already had taken Eldridge Dickey in the first round, why were we taking another quarterback in the second round. Especially one who was more of a runner. That's how he got his nickname Snake. It was how he ran.

And, my god, all those times he was injured on the pine when Blanda had to come in. Not to mention those years he just stood around backing up Lamonica.

H

6:33 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

H:

OK...I did not see these "DLmen" as good Jr prospects last year and was relying on what I read about them this year...which does not excite me...they all have a weakness in their games...non is a complete player at his position...as in SOH...strong against the rush but NOT a dominate pass rusher with very little up-side and not fast...

Go break it down for the "DT"s for me and explain why we should be excited about using a #3 pick and paying such big bucks for that player....

And come on....don't lie to me now...SOH is very much a sentimental pick now isn't he....come on....admit the truth here....and now why would you beat up an old man like Al for being a little sentimental himself....

PantyRaider....SentimentalRaiders!!!!

6:40 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

1968
1. Eldridge Dickey, QB, Tennessee St.
2. Ken Stabler, QB, Alabama
3. Art Shell, T, Maryland State

Could that be a prime example of Al going for the best player on the board instead of need....and aren't we all glad he had the """"FORSITE"""" to do just that....

It also could be that he was viewed as a possible project conversion to RB or WR as Al was known for this also....But the #! thing he was known for is taking the best "ATHLETE" on the board....which I believe the "Snake" was...

PantyRaider....Love-That-Snake!!!!

6:50 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

One small point about all the folks belaboring the point that Fargas is prone to injury due to his upright running style ... McFadden has a more pronounced upright running carriage and like all RBs in a violent sport, could very well get injured. Injuries of RBs is a roll of the dice.

A few additional points regarding the DL projected in top 5:

DTs like Dorsey & Ellis are not going to rack up stats and be on highlight tapes like a RB. By doing their jobs well allows other teammates to get the sacks and tackles. Are Dorsey & Ellis "great" DTs? Who knows how they well do in the NFL but by all accounts (scounting reports, awards, honors, coaches insight, media, etc) they are top 5 picks for a reason.

As far as SOH, he is as close to a "can't miss" solid, productive prospect and true DE (pass rusher; 14 sacks; run stopper) that I've seen in quite some time.

Usually the DEs in the 1st round of the draft are selected for their 1 dimensional excellence (speed rushers). SOH is an everydown, all around pure football player with exceptional intelligence, football instincts and character. Sounds to me like he is a guy you could pencil in to start for the next 10 years.

McFadden is very multi purpose. No doubt he would add another dimension to our offense. His skills would indirecty help other areas of the team. The same case can be made for SOH.

4 areas SOH helps our D:
#1 Run D
#2 Pass rush
#3 Pass D
#4 Turnovers

The last 2 are attributed to his ability to put pressure on the QB which in turn (a) lessens the time our CBs need to stay with their WRs in coverage (b) INTs caused by a QB getting rid of the ball prematurely in the face of a fierce pass rush.

DBurg & SOH coming from opposite sides of the field will allow us to get to the QB more frequently from our base 4.

Stopping the run, getting to the QB, and creating turnovers is the essence of a good team D. SOH would aid all 3 areas.

Sorry PR but I say DL over RB.
"DL IS DA MEAT AND POTATOES OF A GOOD D ... NO NEED FOR EMPTY CALORIES!" :) CJ

6:59 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

If you think it was foolish to take 2 "QB"s in a row than you should just love this year....TTTTTTT...HBHBHB....and the folowing year 3 more T's -n- 3 more RB's....Now was that an area of need.....


1965 REDSHIRT
1. Larry Todd, HB, Arizona State
2. Jim Harvey ,T, Mississippi
3. Stave Mass ,T, Detroit
4. Mickey Cox, T, LSU
5. Bob Taylor, G, Cincinnati
6. Gregg Kent, T, Utah
7. John Carroll, T, Texas
8. Henry Pinkett, HB, Baylor
9. Frank Pennie, T, ,Florida State
10. Brent Berry, T, San Jose State
11. Tom Longo, DB, Notre Dame
12. Dennis Duncan, HB, Lousiana College

http://www.raiders.com/History/
Default.aspx?id=880

PantyRaider....DraftHumor!!!!

7:06 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

CalicoJack:

I jump all over the web and read about players like SOH and get the opposite review...and there are a few opposite reviews on McFabulous too who talk about his up-right running style...But the knock on SOH is his speed and athletic ability....more quick than fast....strong but not a great pass rusher....wont cause fear in NFL T's when he lines up against them...needs to rely more on his smarts than his pure athletic ability....not a pure athlete....more a self made man....well coached and intelligent....may not be an every down player despite his endurance motor because of pure passing situations....not much up-side....

The Combine will answer some question I hope....so when is the coin toss...

PantyRaider....O-O-O!!!!!

7:14 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

1981
1a. Ted Watts, CB, Texas Tech
1b. Curt Marsh, T, Washington
2. Howie Long, DT, Villanova

You may be completely right....PaPa SOH was taken in the 2nd rd and did not become a starter that year....I saw him play in Denver with Bill Pikel durring the strike....that was the only time I could buy tickets durring the 5 years I lived in Colorado....as a union man I totally respected his commitment to the game even if he had to stand up against the entire league....other Steemfitter-Boilermaker-Ironworker Brothers took an oposite view to mine but that's life....

PantyRaider....SOH will be gone!!!!

7:30 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

CB Asante Samuel is an ORFA and so is NoMoss....do you want him back....we need a WR....

7:39 PM  
Blogger CutThroatRaider said...

McFadden looks like a keeper after Chris Long and Glenn Dorsey go to Miami and St. Louis respectively. Of course Friday morning’s coin toss will determine their spot — third, fourth or fifth.

So now we know when it will be....Tomorro morning....What time stupid...

Be sure to check this blog or AJC.com Friday morning to find out how the Falcons fared in the coin toss that will determine if they will draft No. 3, No. 4 or No. 5. In case you missed it, Atlanta, Oakland and Kansas City all finished with 4-12 records. The Falcons will flip with Oakland to see who gets the third pick.

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-
blogs/ajc/falcons/entries/2008/02/20/
the_combine_qbs.html

OK....But what time fool....

PantyRaider.....Tune in da Morning!!!

7:59 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Good points PR! For what it is worth, here are the scouting reports from 'Draft Countdown'. It is worth noting that every draft prospect can be picked apart.

Darren McFadden
Strengths:
An outstanding natural athlete...Has very good size...Excellent timed speed with a burst...Has great vision and instincts...Big play threat who can take it the distance at any time..Elusive with nice feet..Quick and agile...Real strong...Tough and loves contact...Runs hard and does not go down easy...Has decent hands and can be a weapon in the passing game..Plays with a nasty demeanor..Extremely productive.

Weaknesses:
Has some off-the-field and character questions...Legs and lower body are a little thin....Might run too high and open himself up to big hits...Could still improve as a blocker...Does not have a ton of experience as a receiver...Did not really play in a conventional offense in college and shared the workload...Ball security is an issue.

Chris Long
Strengths:
Has good size and bulk...Very active and has an unparalleled motor...Hard worker and team leader with top-notch intangibles...Strong, tough and powerful...Sheds blocks well...Outstanding hand use...Does a terrific job versus the run...Technically sound and understands leverage...Great in pursuit and has a burst to close...Real smart with good instincts and awareness...Versatile and could play in either a 3-4 or 4-3 scheme..Durable...Has a lot of experience..Had a fantastic senior campaign.

Weaknesses:
Doesn't have great timed speed or quickness...May not have a lot of upside...Not a great natural pass rusher...Isn't going to strike fear into the hearts of opposing offensive tackles off the edge...Was not overly productive prior to his senior year.

"KeepNtheDraft411Flowin!"

10:58 PM  
Blogger H said...

Pantyraider,

For position we will draft no worse than fourth. If we win the toss Atlanta still has to flip with the Chefs.

I'm not necessarily one of the folks who is hoping for SOH. If he's the guy I'm OK with it, but I am leaning toward DT help as number 1 priority. Now, SOH is touted for his ability against the run, but he averaged just over a sack a game.

Initially I was in the Glenn Dorsey camp, but the more I see and hear about Sedrick Ellis I find myself leaning toward him.

And, McFadden does have an upright running style (one of the knocks on Fargas).

My biggest problem with McFadden is the amount of money that would be tied up in another running back when we need a DT, LT, WR and could use a DE that can play the run too. Richardson had a decent latter half of the season and, providing we don't take SOH, will probably be the starter. That is unless we get a solid DT and move Tommy Kelly back outside.

H

4:55 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

CJ reported scouting on McFadden that “ball security is an issue.” I’ve read that too. One thing I will say about Fargas; after looking like a fumbler early in his career, He must have really worked hard to correct that problem because last year he was solid holding onto the ball.

The one vast difference between drafting 1st and drafting 3rd or 4th is we don’t have any control over the first couple picks. There’s no way we trade up, while trading down should be a more than viable option. Assuming we do neither, when it comes to our pick, one or more of the following players will be available, SOH, Ellis, RunDMc, and/or Dorsey. Based on the prospect of Michael Bush actually improving our #6 rushing attack, it makes the most sense to pick from the D players. And, as Calico said before, I believe Echman is a serviceable backup. He was hands down our best back in camp last year.

5:19 AM  
Blogger H said...

This just in:

We pick fourth.

H

7:03 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

i don't remember where i saw it, but recently howie long was talking about his boys: howie, kyle, and chris. basically, if my memory serves me right, he said, "if you want a guy who is just going to flat out pound you every play, then pick howie. if you want a guy who is going to attack every play, then pick kyle. but if you want a guy who is going to ferociously tear you apart every play, then select chris."
br said, "One of the things I do know about Al is that when it comes to the draft, his philosophy is to take the best available player, regardless of need or position."
this is a major reason why we have not won a super bowl since '83. when we selected marcus, he was the best player, yes, but we needed a rb. the same with tim brown, we needed a slot wr, and he was the best player out there. if soh and mcfadden are still on the board; we better select soh. it's a need, and he is better than mcfadden. the ted hendricks is the heismann of defensive players, and soh has one. how many heismann's does mcfadden have? oh yeah, none; but he was a runner up for the last 2 years.....
if soh is taken, and jake long is available, we take jake. amazing player. did you know, he only gave up 2 sacks in his collegiate career? name anyone else, at any level, who has less? crickets......
mcfadden had 1830 rushing yards on 325 attempts this past year (4590 yards on 785 attempts for his career; a 5.8 yard/carry average), but his backup felix jones had 1162 with only 133 attempts (2956 yards on 386 attempts in the same time frame as mcfadden, a 7.7 yard/carry average); which tells me it's not the talent of mcfadden that has given him these yards, but the blocking system of the o-line. some say what about all purpose yards? mcfadden 21 catches 164 yards, jones 16 catches 174 yards this last season. again, is it mcfadden? or is it the system around him? it's the system around him. yes, he is an incredible talent, but no, he is not the best player in the draft. that title belongs to chris long and/or jake long, depending on opinion.

7:05 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Calico, good write up on SOH. For those two young to remember Howie Long on the field, he wasn't just a great player. He was a great leader, extremely hard worker, always provided great support to his teammates in all situations, and a stablizing presence on the football field. Howie was always such a class act that you were virtually certain that his kids were going to be brought up to be the same way. And apparently, from all reports, they are. And Long is an honorable man. I would draft his son with the #1 overall pick in the draft on Howie's say so alone.

That said, we won't get him. He'll be gone before we pick.

200 - beat ya Psycho!

8:26 AM  

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