Thursday, March 15, 2007

Raider Take's Quick Takes

1. Kudos to Raiders.com and team internet director Jerry Knaak for the slick new revamp to the team’s official web site. I love the new banner photo, and the overall layout is more striking and easier to navigate. Among various new features, the site includes a blog by director of broadcasting and executive television producer Chris Gargano. I hope that this step into the future is accompanied by more access and outreach to non-traditional news and opinion media outlets (such as Raider Take, for example). Just as the traditional media outlets are getting into blogging, so should proven bloggers be given more traditional access. Other teams have already figured this out. Unlike the bloggers at the Mercury News and elsewhere, at least I declare my bias, and at least my bias is in favor of the Raiders.

2. Sports Illustrated (a.k.a. Sports Irritating) actually ranked Jordan-Rhodes as one of the NFL’s top 10 running back tandems going into the 2007 (as published on si.com). I know a lot of you weren’t too excited about the Rhodes signing, but for once I agree with SI. I think that this has the potential to be a big step forward. It’s a case of the sum being greater than the parts. Rhodes alone isn’t the story; it’s how his presence liberates LaMont Jordan from having to carry the load, and how this could raise Jordan’s game in the process. But if you still want to draft a promising RB in the second round, you won’t get an argument from me. As we’ve painfully learned over the past few seasons, the best time to plant seeds for the future is always now.

3. Interesting stats in the latest issue of Sports Illustrated, by the way. Under the banner “The Bust List,” they compile a list of professional sports teams (all sports) by ranking of criminal activity so far in 2007, with points scored for convictions and criminal pleas, arrests and citations and investigations. Not surprisingly, the Bengals top the list, but it’s the AFC West that truly leads the pack, with the Chargers ranked third, immediately followed by the Chiefs. Remember, this is for all professional sports, not just the NFL. I think that the Chargers and Chiefs should merge franchises. They could be called the Kansas Diego Chumps, and their logo could incorporate a pair of handcuffs. They could play their games at Corcoran State Prison. A total of 17 teams made the list. The Raiders, of course, were not mentioned. By the way, when modern Raiders get into trouble, they do it in style, such as firing bullets into the home of Siegfried and Roy.

4. Hello, Jamarcus! Goodbye, Randy! I say send him “Packing” to Green Bay. Let’s keep this train rolling and riding rails into the future. With Charles Woodson already there, the Frozen Tundra could soon turn into a sort of witness protection program for underperforming Raiders. Just freeze, crybabies.

P.S. Click here
to see JaMarcus Russell spin out of trouble twice, then chuck the ball 53 yards off of his heels for a reception. Yeah, I agree, this dude is just too phat.

131 Comments:

Blogger nyraider said...

RT-
It’s always good to hear from you. You have a knack for laying back letting everything just develop with your blog posts. It must be difficult to bite your tongue so much.

I’m one of the “not too excited” group wrt Jordan/Rhodes. However, my lack of excitement is probably less pointed at Rhodes and more pointed at Jordan. Deep down I was hoping his inflated salary would be his undoing with the team. I like new blood, and Rhodes can get the job done in tandem. I’d just rather team him up with a top rookie prospect, ala what Indy last year, and roll the dice that way.

“JR is too phat”... that’s classic! As I implied in my last post, I’m going to cry like a baby if we don’t pick Russell.

4:20 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Thanks, NY Raider. I appreciate you and the others tending the discussion fires when I go quiet for a few days. I'm not biting my tongue, but rather simply enjoying the ride.

All the sports outlets are jabbering about March Madness, to which I can only ask: is it September yet!? I cannot wait for this season to begin. The draft should be a blast, too. "And with the first pick in the 2007 NFL draft, the Oakland Raiders select..." Just thinking about it gives me chills.

4:39 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Hey, I deserve a link for all of my Al Davis defense!

RT, JRuss is the man. From what I've read, JRuss has the best winning attitude since Snake Stabler. "Just win, baby!"

4:42 PM  
Blogger StickUm25 said...

While I'm not on the Russell bandwagon yet, I'm not a basher either. I'm still waffling on who I'd rather see at the QB position, probably because I haven't sold out Walter as of yet in the overall scheme of putting the team together for this year.

This clip is a prime example of why I'm not settled. Part of me thinks Elway when I see that play. The other part of me says that chucking the ball into deep double coverage would be a pick in the pros.

I appreciate that Russell has the bigger upside due to his physical traits. His arm and escapability should generate more big plays than Quinn or Walter ever could. However, being a big dude, and being able to take the hits, may not be such a great thing. Looking at other big guys like McNair, McNabb, Roethlisberger, Leftwich, Culpepper - they aren't statues either. They're all big, mobile guys, but unfortunately, they have all been nicked up on a regular basis, and some have missed serious time as a result. While I'd love to have any of them in their prime (well maybe not so much Leftwhich, and Roethlisberger is not a stud yet), it is something to consider. Maybe a guy who takes fewer chances, and thereby fewer hits, is better for the long term.

Of course Quinn or Walter would need to be more like Manning & Brady than Dilfer & Johnson for it to make any difference, and I'm not sold on that either . . .

6:16 PM  
Blogger StickUm25 said...

If this is true it looks like we're in "dump Moss at all costs" mode. But the side benefit is we get rid of another guy who can't catch the ball. The part I don't like is giving up a pick based on Rodgers' production. Even if it is a 7, we've give up Moss & Anderson for him straight up!

Updated Moss to Packers rumor

7:28 PM  
Anonymous Gary said...

Click on the NFL network's interview with Kiffin and someone tell me that this doesn't sound like it's a done deal to draft Russell.

http://www.nfl.com/

Right sidebar.

10:16 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

yeah? so what. it's NOT a done deal. and he'll talk like that about the other top 5-10 players. PURE speculation folks! they have other players to see/scout/evaluate.

11:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What do you guys think of Rodgers in OAK? Having been on the JaMarcus bandwagon since the Sugar Bowl it kind of worries me that this rumor might have some truth to it. Rodgers to OAK would be an indication that we are drafting Calvin Johnson instead, since it makes little sense to have 3 young, inexperienced QB's who can each be considered 'future' franchise QB's in their own right.

I would much rather have KGB for Moss staight up, with no picks if we have to. Our pass rush would be a nightmare for anyone, it would come from all angles instead of just having Brayton sit and wait for a run to the left. Combine KGB with our stingy secondary and we might be approaching our '84 Super Bowl caliber defense if this continues.

Anyway enough defense. I really hope we get JaMarcus, assuming we don't find any red flags in the next month. Both of the LSU recievers look good so maybe we could pick one up in a later round to help ease JaMarcus into a confidant state of mind knowing he has good chemistry with at least one guy. Bowe might go in the 1st round, but the other guy is faster and seems more like a Raider anyway. Smith is it? I think he is projected as a 2nd rounder so maybe we can even get him in the 3rd or even 4th if he slips. We'd probably have to move Moss for WR to be a need, and for this guy to get playing time, but remember this is a GOOD thing.

We need to do everything we can to help build team chemistry centered around JaMarcus, assuming he's the guy. Maybe it's not such a crapshoot taking a QB. If they guy is as coachable as they say then MAKE him great. It starts with getting the rest of the offense in his corner and supporting him.
Any rookie QB will throw dumb passes for a while so the boo-birds in the black hole have to be patient as well for this to work. And having 10 offensive staters making positive comments on JaMarcus through those tough times will go a long way in keeping the crowd in his corner. So get an LSU WR to hopefully prove himself worthy, gain respect of his own, and help promote Russell through the whole process. Just a thought. Thank you for smoking. - Psycho

8:13 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

If there's any team that has proved the wide receiver position is overrated, it's the Raiders. We've been "stacked" at wide receiver for the past several seasons. Look at last year's four Championship teams. At QB, you had an all-star cast of Brees, Brady and Manning (with the exception being Grossman). At receiver, you had the workmanlike Marvin Harrison as your only true star. T.O., Chad Johnson, Randy Moss, blah, blah, blah. I say get a franchise QB, get the running game in order, and suddenly guys like Curry and Porter will be more than sufficient.

To me, this means draft JaMarcus even if you get Rodgers, and don't be overly tempted by Calvin Johnson.

8:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amen to that RT. Curry and a happy Porter are solid. Get a guy to replace Moss if needed but don't go crazy with a freak like Calvin unless everything else is in place. In a different situation I'd be screaming to draft Calvin, but not with JaMarcus sitting there and with us throwing ducks. - Psycho

8:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Russell or bust! If we pass on him, I don't know what I might do, but it won't be pretty.

Roy

9:19 AM  
Blogger raiderdecoachella said...

I like JR a lot but I don't think that him or anybody this year is worth the cash that he will be earning as a 1st. pick, I would say that if the Raiders were to have Walter and 2 rookies we would stil be in better shape than we were last year with Walter, Brooks and Tui, so for me to be worried about Rogers that is not even a concern, get Roger's! dump the Bitch and move forward with our future.

9:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wouldn't mind having Rogers either if it means curing Cancer. My only concern is that it may hurt our chances of seeing Russell in S&B. Kiffin said there is a certain percentage of drafting Russell. I feel like already having 2 young, potentially good future QB's would drop that percentage of our willingness to draft Russell. I just hope it drops from like 99% to only 95% and we still get him. I'm half joking on the percentage but who knows. - Psycho

9:48 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

New post at BlandRocked!

http://raiderhistory.blogspot.com/

10:22 AM  
Anonymous heartland raider fan said...

Kiffin will be calling the plays and therefore looking for a physical extension of his will.
Is Kiffin expecting broken plays for Superman to rescue him from, or someone mortal with intelligence, and phyically gifted enough to execute his plans accurately?
Will it be more of a priority for Kiffin to have more precise routes, that are quicker to develope or have a giant fidgeting in the pocket or scrambling, buying time, waiting for an open target?
I'm not sold on Porter ....can someone show me a complete season Porter even came close to meeting the expectations the Raiders have had in him?
Moss for Rodgers....take Calvin Johnson.

10:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
Amen to everyone else that doesn't want to see Al fall head over heels over yet another talented receiver. What has having stud receivers gotten us? not much.
And with calvin, i like him but I want to remind everyone again that he had like 2 catches for 13 yards in Tech's huge rivalry game with georgia. He was absolutely shut down by two very average CB's. I just can't get past that. Tech hadn't beat Georgia in like 4 years, they were hungry for that game, ranked in the top 20 and georgia was having a terrible year (lost to Vandy and KentuckY.. that never happens!!!). This was the year calvin and the boys were going to take it to the dawgs. And make no mistake about it.. I'm from Georgia and the Bulldawgs ARE TECH's BIG RIVALRY... not teams in their division.
2 catches for 13 or so yards. No factor whatsoever in the game (calvin). How can we ignore that?
So he's fast. So he can broad jump.
Big freakin whip. He is good, but we need a leader at QB.
I watched Russell throw a twenty yard rope TD to beat previously unbeaten Bama (2005) at Tuscaloosa to end the game. I watched. The place went from a riot to a library in a second.
I love Russell and will be as upset as i was when Rison burned us on Monday night football if we don't take him.
I just have a terrible feeling Al will fu&* the whole thing up again.
And Rodgers? Rodgers? Please. Why would green bay dump their former 1st round QB when Favre is playing his last season? Answer: because they realizes what everyone else realizes about Cal QB's. They are system QB's that don't work in the nfl.
If we send Moss to Green bay I agree with others here that think we should get defense in return. Absolutely. Please no Rodgers. If we get Rodgers for Moss, then once again the league will be laughing mightily at us and allof us will be watching him or Walter walk off the field after 3 and outs all day long.

10:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Trading Rodgers for Moss (only threat they have is Driver)is "Dumping" him??

10:52 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

I said it in the post below this one, and I retread it here and now, because it fits.
Listen, I think JRuss has more upside than down. I think he will be a good NFL QB. The one factor I have doubts on, was this last season against SEC teams, he fumbled the ball at least once during a scramble. But that is coachable fix in how he carries the ball.
Other complaints against him, was he never won a Championship at any level so far. Is that the player, team, or the system he is in? Brady never won a Championship either, but look at him now. Neither did Favre. There are a lot of good NFL QB's that did not win a Championship at the Collegiate Level, that won in the NFL. There are also a lot of QB's that won at the Collegiate Level, and didn't win anything in the NFL.
A lot of the negative concerns are either bogus, or coachable. That's my point with JRuss, he has proven that he is coachable.
That is the biggest difference in what I saw with Leinart last year, and he doesn't have the physical tools that JRuss has, other than being a "heady" QB.
Cutler and Young are arguable to me. I like the pick of Huff, but not as SS; but if Young was on the board when we picked last season, I think we would've took him.
Cutler didn't impress Davis in personality or skill, for whatever reason. I don't believe he wanted Leinart either, because he was spoiled, and was demanding with what he felt he deserved. That never has set well with Davis.
So given the QB's on the board when we picked, I think we made the right choice, at the time; especially with this past season's system (or lack thereof) that we ran. Imagine if Shell and the Raiders picked Leinart, that alone may have saved his job, and we could be in for another dismal season.
JRuss, like Huff, is a smart choice for this draft. I'd entertain C Johnson if we got rid of Moss, but I think we could get the same caliber at WR, for less $$, with Steve Smith, Limas Sweed, Robert Meachem, Chansi Stuckey, Dallas Baker, or Joel Filani.
Just my opinion.

1:31 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

Do you want to be tempted by the Devil ? Then listen to this.

Suppose the Lions love Jruss much more than Quinn.
What if we took a mega deal to trade down to two.
Now Quinn is the only first round Qb left on the board.
Perhaps Cleveland, & Tampa will engage in a bidding war to move up for that pick.
Again the Raiders can move down, gathering enough 2nd, and 3rd round picks with which to rebuild the entire offense.
Still they would be in position to draft a Peterson, Johnson, Thomas, Branch, or Brown with their # 1.

Or we can just draft Jruss, and let him hand it off to Jordan, & Rhodes. Let him toss a few to the pouter, & the quitter. And watch him run for his life behind Gallery, Grove, and Sims.

Ok Faust, the choice is yours. Just sign here, and all the draft picks are yours.

1:58 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Bama7:

I agree with you. The fact is we just don't need another WR right now. We can make things work with who we have (whether or not Moss is on board) as long as we have the means to get them the ball.

Our current biggest need is at quarterback. To me, the only real argument right now is who that quarterback is going to be.

2:02 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

RT said: “If there's any team that has proved the wide receiver position is overrated, it's the Raiders. We've been "stacked" at wide receiver for the past several seasons.”

That’s worth repeating! Adding a WR will get us nowhere without a solid QB at the helm.

No matter what we do in FA or draft, I don’t expect to make a huge splash next year. So to me this is at least a two-year plan. That’s why drafting a potential franchise QB makes more sense now than ever.

Here’s what Vic Carucci, National Editor of NFL.com said about JaMarcus Russell:

“Exceptional arm strength; no one comes close to matching him in this category in college football and he might not even have an equal in the NFL ... Accuracy, especially on longer throws ... Quick release ... Massive size (6-foot-5-plus, 265 pounds) that allows him to tower in the pocket and makes it extremely difficult for defenders to get him to the ground ... Field vision and ability to locate open receivers; when moving to avoid pressure, he keeps his eyes downfield and still looks to make a pass ... Poise in the pocket, which was particularly impressive in the biggest game of his career, the Sugar Bowl victory against Notre Dame.”

He also said, “Bulk and strength work to his advantage, but his ideal playing weight is closer to 255 pounds.”

Yeah! JR just trimmed down to his ideal weigh of 256 lbs.

3:16 PM  
Anonymous memdf said...

RT-

Great take on the WR's-

From your keyboard to Al's ears!

3:54 PM  
Anonymous Gary said...

For those that think we should draft Quinn over JRuss, here's some research I just did:

http://sio.midco.net/dewaay2spike/blackvswhite.html

[...]

CONCLUSIONS:


-If you draft a white QB in the top 25 of the NFL draft, you have a 46% chance of success.


-If you draft a black QB in the top 25 of the NFL draft, you have a 86% chance of success.

Just food for thought...

11:57 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
RT- for those that watched your u-tube vid of russell's bomb, i thought this one was even better
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCvJjJxrSFA&NR

4:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you watch the you tube clips closely you'll come to the conclusion that a) J-Rus has incredible pocket presence, he doesn't panic in the pocket, checks down nicely, and runs as a last resort though he is more than capable in that regard. And b) For all the talk about his arm strength he has beautiful touch on his passes. This talent has been with him since high school Check the tape courtesey of youtube again. Take J-Rus, get a proven QB coach to tighten his skills, sign one or two servicable linemen, look for the best value in the later rounds. Offensive Line, D Tackle or End, and Wide Outs in that order.

6:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you watch the you tube clips closely you'll come to the conclusion that a) J-Rus has incredible pocket presence, he doesn't panic in the pocket, checks down nicely, and runs as a last resort though he is more than capable in that regard. And b) For all the talk about his arm strength he has beautiful touch on his passes. This talent has been with him since high school Check the tape courtesey of youtube again. Take J-Rus, get a proven QB coach to tighten his skills, sign one or two servicable linemen, look for the best value in the later rounds. Offensive Line, D Tackle or End, and Wide Outs in that order.

6:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The bottom line here is that Al Davis will not pay any draft prospect with the type of money that most teams have the ability to afford.

Last year's scenario cost two teams well over $100 million. Mario Williams and Reggie Bush. Each player was guarantte $20-30 million. How can we expect Al to give anyone that kind of money?

You don't. On draft day Al and Kiffin will trade down and rebuild.
Al Davis will not, and I mean will not pay anyone that kind of money.

We all know Davis is cheap, just look at what is going on over the past several years.

5:05 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Anon 5:05 - A few points to consider;

(a) Al has never had the #1 pick in his entire history with the organization. The only time the Raiders had the #1 pick was in 1961 which prior to Al joining in 1963.

(b) To the best of my recollection, Al has never traded down in any round let alone the 1st round.

(c) Al is notorious for being cheap when it comes to paying his coaching staff top market contracts but that simply is not the case with his players.

(d) Al has always paid his draft choices fair market value. Each pick's worth is slotted. The guarnteed money of the contract and full value of the contract is spread out over the length of the contract.

(e) To use a few recent examples, was Al cheap when he took on Moss' remaining 4 years of his contract? Moss contract alone is valued at $20.75M over the next 2 years. Was Al cheap when he signed Jordan for 5 years, $25M?

Bottom Line: If Al feels strongly about taking a certain player, in the draft or free agency, be rest assured that he will find a way secure that player's services. And yes, that includes a PHAT contract for JRuss!

5:37 PM  
Anonymous Franco said...

And to jump in on what Calico Jack said in response, not a whole lot of Al's actions recently have followed any type of trend he may have been making these past few years. He seems to have wised up to what needs to be done to make a substantial step out of this multiple year funk we've been in and therefore has resulted in uncharacteristic Al decisions. So far, I have been pleased in the teams steps towards hiring quality staff and making wise, not ridiculous, FA signings. Picking Jamarcus or Quinn seems the logical next decision in building this organization back to where it should be -- among the NFL's elite. And if rebuilding involves a sacrifice of money for our offensive leader of the future, so be it.

12:49 PM  
Anonymous LK said...

Calico is correct in my opinion--while they have been tight with the coaching staff, the Raiders track record is to pay the players they want to keep

12:57 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Fact is, Al has never been "cheap" when it comes to players. Remember that Al was one of the few owners who supported free agency. Remember when when Tim Brown's contract came up for renewal. He let DENVER write up an offer sheet, and then matched it. He consistantly offers big name players their market value.

Often, to the team's detriment, he offers big contracts to players who haven't proven themselves (i.e., James Jett). This hurts the team because when it's time to get rid of these players the Raiders are then stuck with them as nobody is willing to include them in trade deals.

Calico is right. It's only coaches who Al continuously tries to under pay.

2:23 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

That explains why we've been consistently out-coached since Flores left (Gruden was an anomaly).

2:56 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

Blandarocked:

>>>>
Calico is right. It's only coaches who Al continuously tries to under pay.
>>>

Sometimes to his detriment. It's actually pretty obvious that Al would be known as a "players owner" especially considering how he let the players run the asylum the year after the SB with Callahan.

It's rare to hear any player complain about Al... he gets them signed and in camp, and treats them like royalty. I remember Eric Allen going on and on about the after-game FEAST that Al puts on, it's like the NFL's best, fer instance.

3:51 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

si.com reports that the browns want russell with quinn as a backup choice.

i say fine. you want russell? it'll cost you so come and get it and get ready to bend over baby! Brownies, i'll take your first and second round picks this year AND your first next year.

there would be a lot more options trading the pick than if we kept it. we can have peterson or johnson (soon as moss is traded) and do whatever we need to do with the extra 2nd round pick plus our own 2nd rounder to get one of the lower tier QB's ie: stanton (for you QB guys who need your fix - just kidding don't take it personally) OR heisman trophy winner troy smith (last i checked, russell ain't got wunnadem) or move back up in the 1st to get a project running back assuming we get johnson or get even a defensive tackle.

many more options! i LIKE more options! better to fill all of the holes with.

4:19 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

We have a WR coach. But I don't know anything about him.

http://mcneesesports.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/031907aaa.html

4:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
I'm starting to get a sick feeling about the draft.
From Peter King to countless others, we've heard that Jemarcus Russell has left scouts saying he's the best QB prospect they have ever seen. enough said.
Pete Carroll himself said that "the kid from LSU is exactly what Kiffen wants." I think Pete said that to help Kiffen get the player he wanted when he knew Al would meddle (Russell is who Kiffen wants... but does Kiffen have any say?)
It appears as if we have a gift from the football gods (Russell)
But here we go again... this guy from the Packers, Thonpson, is quoted as saying that regardless of who the Packer fans want wearing the jersey (or in this case don't want wearing the Packer jersey, ie Moss) Thompson said he will bring in whomever he thinks will be best for the Pakers. But Thompson wouldn't say whether he's spoken to Al Davis. Transaltion on the bizarre quotes: yes, the two sides are talking and yes the Packers would love to have Moss, their fans wishes be damned.
This is why i feel sick. I think Aaron Rodgers... or David Carr will end up be the reason we don't take Russell.
We can all thank Al and Jeff Tedford for keepin us at the bottom of the NFL for another few years.
here's hoping Kiffen is persuasive enough to keep Al from further ruining us.
Somehow, someway Al will find a way to meddle and ruin our chance at a Bo Jackson type athlete (Russell)... and then al will come back after he fires Kiffen and say "i wanted russell, Kiffen blew that." Just like he did with Huff over Leinert (blaming shell)
And as Calvin Johnson... do we really want to overvalue the need for a guy that might touch the ball 5 to 10 times a game? Ask the lions about Wr's in the first round.

11:03 AM  
Anonymous heartland raider fan said...

Boo Hoo Hoo ....if i don't get the QB I want I'm gonna pout.
The QB is one of 22 players on the team...no more no less.
The Chicago Bears proved that point this last season.
How many SB rings is Marino wearing? How many rings are Culpepper, McNair and McNabb wearing?.... Trent Dilfer has more.
How many years did it take Peyton Manning to get one?
How many times did the Raiders beat Miami(with Marino) Indianapolis (with Manning), and Tennessee with McNair? And did the Raiders need a NFL star QB to beat them??? NO ! The Raiders as a team beat them.
You all act like the Raiders are done for the next decade if they don't draft the player you(and the Media) want. Is there a chance Kiffin and Davis know more about Football then us fans. God ...I hope they knows more then most of us.
QB's are overratted when it comes to the TEAM's success.
I want the Raiders to win the Superbowl not lead the league in passing or be the envy of other fans for having the player they wish they had.

11:39 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Interesting. Bama7 and Heartland show the two faces of the Raider Nation. I've always come down somewhere in the middle.

First, there is no proof that Davis was lying that he wanted Leinart. According to JMac, Davis' first year coaches usually get what they want. He suggests that if Kiffin wants JRuss, than that is who the Raiders will take.

I don't have any trouble believing that Shell wanted Huff. So did I. For those who have forgotten, we had a crappy D in 2005, and among the largest problems was the fact that we hadn't had a decent SS in several years. I still don't think aquiring Huff was a mistake. He'll earn his keep.

Second, has anyone noticed the changing tide regarding JRuss? He wows everyone at the Sugar Bowl, then by the combine he's a fat lazy slob who only cares about 30 million dollars in guaranteed money. Now we find that half the teams in the NFL are looking for ways to trade up to take him.

This is basically what teams do. They try to sour the market on players they want themselves so they have a better shot at getting them.

If the Raiders don't take JRuss, I will assume that Kiffin either didn't want him, or wanted something else more. While the media seems to want to force Johnson down our throats, I don't think we'll use a 1st round pick on a WR (unless we move up on our second pick).

Regarding the Packers, while Thompson now has no comment in regards to negotiations for Moss, he's stated emphatically that Rogers was never part of the discussion. I believe him. At least for now. Rogers hasn't shown enough for Davis to feel that he's getting "value" in return for Moss. What Davis wants for Moss is draft picks - either this year or next. And he wants a 1st day draft pick, not a 4-7 rounder.

Bottom line: Kiffin will make the first draft pick (at least this year). Trades and free agent aquisitions are Davis' department. Davis didn't hire the man with one of the best eyes for college tallent to ignor him.

12:26 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Heartland Raider - Although I share your view that professional football is the ultimate TEAM sport, I disagree with your point that "The QB is one of 22 players on the team...no more no less."

The conventional wisdom around the NFL especially when you look at the salary structure of most teams, and the way those positions are coveted in the draft and free agency identifies the ultra-key positions in the NFL as QB, RB, LT, a pass rusher and CB.

The teams with the best players at these positions usually win consistently.

I'm not suggesting that positions such as WR or LB are not important to a team's success. However to lump a QB's value as being equal value to any other position is silly.

6:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
Heartland Raider- don't make me come out to Nebraska (or Iowa) and kick your ass. What part about throwing the ball 85 yards do you not understand?
Kidding. Respect your opinion and all the others that aren't so enamored with Jemarcus. I hope BlandaRocked is right about Kiffen being the one to make the call. We can only hope that the Green Bay chatter involves picks or defense players.
We have made so many damn lousy personnel moves the last twenty years I just don't think I can stand to watch us f(*& this one up. I'm a long time raider fan and I am sick and tired of having trouble sleeping after we lose. We always re-hash all the turd players that Al has kept on the roster over the years. Here's something different for RT's board... name your five worst losses as a Raider fan (games that you still felt the sting the next day). Here's mine:
5. Loss to the bucs in superbowl... humiliated
4. Hasty running back the Hoss INT for a TD and win at KC... ref picked Tim Brown
3. Denver knocking us off in Mile High the year follwing our first superbowl win (78)
2. Rison beating us in the waning seconds of the Monday night game against KC
1. Ravens abusing us in the 2000 championship game. I really thought we were going to the superbowl when the Ravens beat the Titans.



3. Marinovich
4. James Jett
5. Alvis Whitted

8:34 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Bama 7 - I can't believe you left the "tuck" game vs. the Pats in the divisional playoffs off your list! That game was the most painful game for me to endure, bar none. I still get sick to my stomach everytime I see the clip of CWood lowering his shoulder into Brady's mid-section. Ugggh.

9:13 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

I think the big mistake Al Davis made was after the SB loss to Tampa, he blamed it on the west coast offense.
Yeah he rode it another season with Callahan, but he just couldn't wait to go vertical again with Norv, & Shell.

The real reasons we lost big in the SB was Robbins went nutso the night before, and the defense produced no big plays, and turned out to be as soft as butter at the beach.

That's the question I have. Is Kiff a WC guy, a vertical guy, or a hybrid guy ?

If he's WC, is Jruss the best fit ?
Sure seems as if Jruss is built for the vertical offense.

I just hope Al and Kiff are of one mind about which direction the Raiders should be headed.

9:14 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

Heartland:
>>>
QB's are overratted when it comes to the TEAM's success.
>>>

Gasp!!... excuse me here...
ARE YOU FRIGGING KIDDING ME? The Raiders have basically SUCKED ASS for the LAST TWO DECADES except for the four years Gannon was throwing darts all over the field... eventually culminating in a MVP and a SB appearance.

Cmon man. This team above all others has to have a great QB... we have never done ANYTHING without one. Whether it is a Raider-thing or a NFL-thing is irrelevant... the Raiders have never done anything without a great QB.

Lamonica.
Stabler.
Plunkett.
Gannon.

Name the great Raider teams in the last 45 years without one of the above.

I'll save you time... you can't name even one... even the Bo years we came up short.

Sorry man.. I can't disagree more.

9:48 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Heartland-
how did the QB-less Bears become the poster-team for NFL success? Didn't the Manning-led Colts just win the SB?

Bama-
I believe there's a 50-pt blow-out in Buffalo that's also missing from your list.


Raider00-
I'm hoping it's a hybrid, in which case JR would fit right in with his accuracy and touch on short to intermediate passing... and of course the occasional rocket down field.

4:40 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

The top 5 worse losses for me:
5. Being winless against AFC West teams the last 2 seasons.
4. The loss to the Ravens in the 2000 AFC Championship Game. I thought it was bogus no roughing the passer was called against the tub of lard that thinks he is a funny sideline reporter for fox. If that doesn't happen, and Gannon stays in the game, we get a TD and a Super Bowl trip.
3. Losing to the Texans this past year, despite holding them to -5 (yes, negative 5) yards passing for the WHOLE GAME! That pissed me off.
2. Losing to Tampa Bay in the Super Bowl. I think there are 2 big reasons we lost. The first being the loss of Barrett Robbins at Center. The Raiders offense has not been the same since losing him as Captain of the O-Line. The second, Callahan's inability to change game plans. Gruden knew what play we were to run, with how we lined up offensively. The simple fix is to do the opposite of what he thought he knew, and then make adjustments from there. Callahan knew that Gruden knew the plays, and how he schemed, but didn't change anything. That smells fishy to me. It left a bad taste in my mouth, and I still hear about that to this day from friends here in Austin.
1. The Tuck Game against the Pats. I still stew over this game. This game cost me my stereo, because I had the sanity not to throw my TV off my (then) apartment balcony, but could not save my stereo from it. This is the only loss where I became angrily violent. Not only did I throw my stereo off my balcony, I punched a hole in my wall, that I was able to fix with some drywall putty. I came to the point where I took off from my apartment before I caused anymore damage to it. I drove somewhere, and I don't remember where. Everytime someone mentions this game to me, it pisses me off. If it's a Pats fan, I want to throw down with him. Plain and simple, we were robbed of that game because of Al Davis' privilous lawsuits against the NFL, and he had 7 pending at the time of that robbery.

6:20 AM  
Anonymous heartland raider fan said...

No one could have proved the point I’ve made about the QB being no more or less a determining factor in a team’s success, then the Raiders did last season. You keep mentioning Stabler, Lamonica, Plunkett, and Gannon….how well would any of them have faired with the coaching and team support Brooks and Walter had last year????

And you all want to compare apples and oranges. The world champion Raiders teams all had QB’s that called their own plays. Even Gannon was hamstrung by Gruden to stick to scripted plays and audibles (or face Gruden‘s rath).

Kiffin’s QB will be there to execute his play calling.

You want to bring up the past championship seasons??? Good ….prove the point I make even further. It was a solid defense and a consistant, steady running game that produced the wins in those Superbowls. Minnesota, Philadelphia, and Washington were all heavy favorites to win those games with their powerful offenses.

So I guess the determining factor for a great QB is to be able to heave a ball 85 yards??

7:02 AM  
Anonymous memdf said...

I guess you guys are too young to remember the immaculate reception. I remember watching it on a small b&w tv in my room. After the play I pounded the top of the tv so many times I cracked it. I never thought I would feel this bad again. I was wrong (tuck).

I believe this play single handedly catapulted a mediocre franco harris into the hall of fame. It did, however, start the Stabler era.

7:39 AM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Heartland Raider - Your statement "Minnesota, Philadelphia, and Washington were all heavy favorites to win those games with their powerful offenses." is factually incorrect.

Oakland was favored over Minnesota by 5, Philly was favored over Oakland by only 3 points, and Washington was favored by only 3 points. Here's the link to look it up yourself:
http://www.docsports.com/point-spreads-for-every-super-bowl.html

I think we have a few different arguments coming from different perspectives. I don't think anyone here is comparing eras (ie. playcalling) or the merit of a good defense and rushing attack.

However to compare the value of a QB to any other position as being equal in value is ridiculous.

If you were to go through the past 41 SuperBowl winning teams, you would find that the vast majority of those teams were led by an above average QB. Yes, there are a few exceptions like Dilfer with the 2000 Ravens but the Ravens had arguably one of the best D's in the history of the league.

No offense but your statement "the QB being no more or less a determining factor in a team’s success" is laughable. The QB has the biggest impact on the offense's success, has the highest level of responsibility, and is basically the captain of the ship.

8:09 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Worst five losses...

1. Immaculate Reception (Steelers)
2. '77 playoff game against Donkeys
3. '85 playoff game against NE.
4. Rison
5. Tuck

Not in that order.

8:56 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Raider Nate 75-
I like that you blended 2-years of divisional losses into one of your worse losses, because that’s exactly what it feels like, one long continuous game that we can’t ever seem to win......!

IMO, the QB is hands down the most important position on any football team. Any exceptions which can be cited in NFL or other league history is no more than an anomaly.

Here’s my own simpleton perspective for an offensive by position:

QB - 60 to 70 touches a game, and responsible for reading the defense split seconds before the snap and changing the play if necessary. The ability to check down receivers and misdirect defenders is critical to the offensive success.

RB - 20 to 30 touches a game, pass-protection, screen and dump-off receiver. Obviously, a very critical position.

WR - 5 to 15 touches a game, minimal pass and run blocking, and depends entirely on the QB to get him the ball.

OL - critical as a unit, but no one position is individually measurable against the QB position.

It’s safe to say, you don’t want to shortchange your QB position. Since we only have one on our roster, I would believe this to be a #1 priority for which halfwits and retreads need not apply.

9:54 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Profootballtalk has been trying to convince themselves for weeks that the Raiders will pick Johnson. They've finally succeeded.

I always learned, when going to school, that you stay with your first answer that comes to mind when taking a test. I think they'll learn that they should have stayed with JaMarcus Russell.

10:07 AM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

Heartland may be over stating it when he devalues the Qb position so much, but he does have a point.

Who was more important to the Giants, Lawrence Taylor, or Phil Simms ?
Remember in 1990, when Simms went down, Hoss was able to lead them all the way.
But what if it was Taylor that would have been lost ?
Could the Giants have still won it all ?

John Elway played a long time, but couldn't win the big one until Terrell Davis came along.

I guess what Heartland is saying, and I agree, for every Aikman, or Elway, there are ten Couches, Carr's, Leaf's, Smith's, Harrington's, and so on.

Worst loss for me was the 2002 SB to Tampa. Never really were in the game, losing to Gruden, who should have been our coach. Still makes me sick today.

Also, losing to New England in 1976, spoiled what would have been a perfect season. Always bothered me.

11:38 AM  
Anonymous lk said...

The Falcons have traded Ron Mexico's backup to Houston for two #2's and a swap of first rounders in 2007 [according to Adam Schefter]....likely to make David Carr expendable--start lighting candles or killing chickens [personal choice]that he doesn't wind up in Oaktown

11:55 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

I didn't put down the immaculate reception, though it is in my top 10, because it happened in 1972, and I was born in 1974.
The 51-3 whooping in Buffalo also ranks in my top 10, but that loss, to me, is blamed on the stupidity of not bringing equipment for frozen turf. Not too mention Bo was injured, but we still had Marcus. That was just a stupid loss on the Raiders' part. You never go into a game unprepared to fight elements as well as opponents.
Heartland, if an average QB, a decent offense, and a strong defense wins Super Bowls (like it did for the fluke Ravens), then how come we didn't win with Marc Wilson, Jeff Hostettler, Darryl Lamonica, Jay Schroeder, Steve Buerlien, and Kerry Collins (who had a similar team to what Gannon had)? These QB's had similar scenarios of good defense, and good offenses; and even though some made the playoffs we never won the Super Bowl.
You can argue that Plunkett and Stabler were just as average at QB, than the above mentioned and won. But they had the Leadership Quality, and were able to pick apart opposing defenses with accurate, strong passing. These are the qualities that both Russell and Walter shows. I wouldn't mind having both on our team.
What makes the QB position so vital to the offense, is their ability to read a defense, make adjustments, strong and accurate passes, and the knowledge of how to run the system to keep the defense off balance. That is what Plunkett, Stabler, Blanda, and Gannon brought to the table as QB. The reason why Gannon doesn't have a ring with us is because of Callahan's unwillingness to let Gannon call audibles.
All of the guys I mentioned had offenses in place to keep the other teams off balance, but didn't have a ton of football knowledge to play QB effectively.
I think Russell would be a good pick over any of the veteran QB's out there and available by free agency or trade. That includes Rodgers (who has similar NFL experiences that Walter has), Carr, a resigning of Brooks, Harrington, etc. Russell has shown on the collegiant level, that he has the tools to be an above average NFL QB. I say give the kid a shot to prove it. I'd rather risk it there, than with a QB who's had several opportunities to prove it, and busted. Otherwise, we may as well call back Marc Wilson, Jeff Hostettler, Darryl Lamonica, Jay Schroeder, Steve Buerlien, or Kerry Collins to "lead our team."
Now I am not saying that Russell should start over Walter, I think Walter deserves a shot just like Russell. I have concerns with Walter's arm on long drives, and as the game and season progress; because he has shown that he wears down. That is my only concern with Walter. Maybe it happened this past year, because he wasn't able to throw a football until this past season. Maybe he will be 100% this season. Who knows?
My concern with Russell is he put the football on the turf while scrambling a lot. But that is a coachable fix, and Russell is coachable. I think with Russell, it would give us depth at the QB position, and 2 similar QB's on the roster. Just food for thought.

11:58 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

When asked to describe Russell with one word, after Russell's pro day, Kiffin chose, "professional."

He didn't pick "big," "strong," or any of the other typical discriptions of Russell. He chose the word "professional." I suspect that Kiffin views Russell as a first year starter.

12:36 PM  
Blogger StickUm25 said...

I wonder if all this will be irrelevant. With Schaub moving to the Texans there is a greater chance they will deal Carr. Whether it is via a trade for Moss, or a 3 way deal, it opens up the possibility of moving him out and a veteran QB into the mix. If we can make this deal prior to the draft it will give us more leverage to possibly deal the first pick, since it gives the perception we'll have more flexibility with the choice.

1:26 PM  
Anonymous LK said...

stickum-
are you saying you would trade Moss for Carr, a proven bust?

1:49 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

Carr is a lemon !!!!!!!

Don't want him !!!!!!!!!

Rather get a 2nd rounder for Moss.

1:59 PM  
Anonymous R2G said...

Who knows what to think at this point? Don't want to see Carr or CJ in Silver and Black, but if they are players that Kiff truly thinks he can build upon so be it. Regardless of the players we pick up between now and September, my hope is that there is true regime change and Kiff will be given enough leash to turn this franchise around. If we go by moves made in the off-season, we might as well hand the Lombardi trophy to the Patsies. The best move we've made in our offseason is picking up a bright young mind with the potential to bring us back to our winning past. My biggest concern is whether he can truly create his own foundation or whether he'll be forced to navigate around one already in place. We'll find out on April 28th.

2:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
Calico- yes, tuck game truly infuriating. I remember calling my friend and walking away from the TV after the "fumble"... my friend said "hold on they're challenging it"... and I confidently laughed it off saying, "well, you can challenge that one all you want, but it's a fumble." Little did I know.
NY Raider- I think I forgot the 51-3 drubbing in Buffalo because of some kind of freudian repression type thing. Truly the lowest moment as a Raider fan. I still hate Marv Levy. I don't think I went out in public for a week.
MEMDF- accurate call... immaculate crapjection catapulted Franco "run out of bounds before getting hit" Harris to fame. Valipiano said he left Franco, his assignment on that play, because franco never liked be in the action and was just drifting off to a safe place. Lucky bastard.
Raider00- I agree totally. Moss for Carr? Like trading a porsche for a kia. But I go you one further, I bet anything a team with a pick in the late first round (chicago or baltimore) would bite on taking Moss for their 1st round pick... but I'd take the 2nd if that's the best we could get.
I still think Briggs straight up for Moss is logical. Neither wants to play on their respective team... same type money that needs restructuring... equal talents. Briggs is a pro bowler but plays in NFC... probably a bit overated. Moss is supposedly lost it, but is probably still a force waiting to happen. A good trade.
Well, at least Schaub is gone. Now we just have to avoid Rodgers and Carr. It's like a friggin video game and we're shooting turd qbs before they land on our roster.

3:10 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I'm getting very nervous about our QB situation. Are there any vets out there worth looking at? Please tell me we're not interested in a QB that threw for minus 5 yards against us last year, or an inexperienced former top draft choice being exiled from a team that will need an heir to their QB position as soon as next year.

Are we going to draft two QB’s? Is that even realistic? Can any of you guys play QB?

3:39 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

we should take ANYTHING for moss except rodgers. al's smoking crack if he thinks he'll get a 1st or equal value for what he paid for him. that's just nuts and the whole league knows it. moss has sucked because of injuries/attitude so we ain't gettin' a 1st.

it's lookin more and more like johnson. but we'll need to trade down 'cause no receiver is worth a $30 mil signing bonus. remember kiffin said "whoever we pick is going to contribute IMMEDIATELY".

re: carr. we can probably get him for cheap now. he's the only other vet qb we can p/u now that shaub is gone. so it's gonna be carr, walter and a scrub.

3:48 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

Almost one year ago the Texans passed on Vince Young. Now they trade for Matt Schaub? Hmmm. The Raiders are now in the same position as the Texans last year. I hope we don't make the same mistake they did and bypass Russell, or even Quinn.

I wouldn't trade for Carr, but as he's the only vet available I'd wait until the Texans cut him and then pick him up. Has anyone noticed that Tui hasn't been picked up by anyone yet? Otherwise at this point we'd be looking at bringing back(gasp) Aaron Brooks on the cheap.

4:11 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Raiderrealist:

More likely we'll resign Tui on the cheap.

I don't think Kiff wants Schaub or Carr. I don't think he wants Rogers. I think if he did, and Al did, we'd have one of those by now.

In view of the fact that Kiff's description of Russell was "professional," I'm sticking with the idea that that's where Kiff's eye falls.

4:18 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

BR:

I sure hope that's the case. You know the funniest thing about the NFL? No one wants to admit making a mistake. Give me an organization that tries to improve itself and win. That's why I'm hoping we can move Moss BEFORE the draft. Give me some picks(I don't think we'll get higher than a second round pick) and we'll make the most of it.

4:27 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

you guys should check out len pasquarelli's article on david carr...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/
columns/story?columnist=
pasquarelli_len&id=2807456

this cat was THE top pick in his draft year. just goes to show how risky it is to pick a QB 1st overall. in this case they lost 35 mil over 5 years. granted bob mcnair (texans owner) is a BILLIONAIRE so this is pocket change for him. al davis is no billionaire. the raiders are one of the teams at the bottom of the league with regards to revenue sharing. can we afford to take that risk?

who knows? maybe carr will fall into our laps via the next cut day if al doesn't wanna throw a low pick and possibly moss (heck, they took puchanon!) at the texans. i think with the right coach in the right system and a fresh start perhaps with kiffin, he'll find himself and be at least a serviceable QB.

4:57 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

I wonder if Houston is trying to move up from 8 to 1, by trading a package including Schaub to Oakland.

That would be a long way down for the Raiders to move so it would have to be a whopper of a deal.

If it happened, and I say if, it would leave the Raiders with Qb Schaub, and possibly LT Levi Brown, plus extra picks in the 2nd, and 3rd rounds, and maybe even Houston's 2008, 1st round pick.

Just a thought.

5:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Raiders just signed a quaterback by the name of Josh Booty, formally of the Cleveland Browns.

He played at LSU and is the older brother of John David Booty.

5:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

He apparently plays two sports, baseball and football

6:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i also got signed, and will be competing with Booty for the third spot on the QB depth chart.

-random passerby

6:59 PM  
Blogger StickUm25 said...

lk - Would I trade Moss for Carr straight up? Not my first choice, but if the choice is between a 3rd rounder and Carr, then yes. At some point we need a veteran QB, and I'd rather have Carr than see Brooks come back. Rodgers is another Walter at this point - an unknown quantity.

Not to put them in the same class, but who would have foreseen Plunkett winning two super bowls when we picked him up? Carr has been been a tackling dummy for his entire career, same as Plunkett was before we picked him up. I don't think you can label Carr a bust yet, as that team has never been able to put together a roster sufficient enough to give him a legitimate chance. And as a number two QB, he would not be bad at all - sufficient to start the season, or come in off the bench if either Russell, Quinn, or Walter get the nod.

Taking Peterson out of the picture, who was my first choice, I think QB is the way to go even with Carr. As great as Calvin may be, I wouldn't take a WR that high, even with Moss gone. And based on our history with Gallery, I'd be gun shy about taking Thomas. We have a true need for a skill position player, and this would be the optimal time to get one.

7:02 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

If Carr would end up with the Raiders, I could say pretty conclusively that this is the first time in NFL history that any team has picked up a QB after he had NEGATIVE yards against said team.

7:39 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

I wouldn't trade for Carr at this point (who will be owed $6.75 million dollars this year if he's traded). Everyone knows that the move to pick up Schaub (and the money they threw at him), put the Texans over the cap, and now it's the waiting game of eventually cutting Carr.
Logically, look at teams who need WR's. Yes, Green Bay is a potential, but not a "must" for a WR. Baltimore needs an impact WR, so do the Jets, Browns, Falcons, and possibly the Saints. For what? Who could we get in return?
Baltimore: Ikechuku Ndukwe (G, 338lbs), and they hold the 29 overall pick, which could be a possibility.
Jets: a little more difficult here. They just re-signed Anthony Clement (RT). Adrian Goodard (LT) would be a possibility, and they hold the 25th overall pick. I would consider Moss for their 1st rounder straight up.
Browns: Ryan Tucker (O-Line), Ken Dorsey (QB), and 2 rounder.
Falcons: Frank Omiyale (LT), and both second round choices they own for this draft.
Saints: Rob Petitti (T), but have already traded their 1st round pick to New England, so I doubt they'd trade their 2nd round to us. So yes, New England has 2 1st round picks. This probably wouldn't happen.
The bottom line is we are in the same boat as the Texans with Carr. Eventually, if we are to get what we want, we are going to have to cut Moss; and people can get him for a lower price. That is what the Packers are hoping for, and why a trade hasn't been made, at this point. Because they know there aren't any real takers for Moss right now.

6:44 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

No, Lane, not THAT LSU quarterback!

Camp fodder... someone to throw passes until the real quarterbacks come in.

8:27 AM  
Anonymous lk said...

Stickum-
I would rather have the third round pick. Having an extra three would give us some trade flexibility, allow us to move up ito the second round for a second pick, obtain LB, DL or OL depth all of which we need. As far as Carr being a bust--he was #1 overall and as played six years, the last three or so with Andre Johnson who is a top five reciever in the league, and has done nothing--I don't think it's too late. Plus, there will be other FA QBs available with the June cuts--I agree we need a vet on board and I think more productive QBs will be available

PS-Tui signed with Jets

8:43 AM  
Blogger raiderdecoachella said...

The Raiders contracted Booty?

Are you sure that Coach Kiffin did not mistake him for his boy at USC?

9:25 AM  
Blogger azraider63 said...

BR,

A agree with the camp fodder comment. I'm sure he got the call due to his brother being the QB at USC (the Kiffen connection). Probably won't be on the roster by start of the season...but you never know.

10:13 AM  
Blogger TheFreakingPope said...

"Yes, hi, I'm here for the Raider Booty".

12:17 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Well... Quinn had is pro day, and didn't run the 40 any more than a tenth of a second faster than Russell (who is far bigger, and some have called fat and lazy).

Russell ran the 40 in 4:83; Quinn had speeds of 4:73 and 4:82.

4:25 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

BR-

You can point out every glowing stat & quote about Russell, those who absolutely, positively don't want him are not going to change their mind. Those of us in favor of drafting him won't be swayed either.

On the vet QB front word is that if Miami signs Trent Green, they will cut Culpepper. I think we should just sit back and see who gets cut rather than try to trade for someone.

Now getting off the QB front, what about DT prospects in the draft? We need some help stopping the run. Also, Michael Bush had surgery on his leg Tuesday. He won't be able to participate in Louisville's pro day. He;s been projected as a very late 1st rounder to an earle 2nd round pick. He might drop into the third so perhaps we might consider him. It could work out for us the same as Frank Gore has worked out for SF.

5:02 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Raider Realist - Here are 2 good DT prospects projected for the 2nd round:

Justin Harrell, 6'4", 303, Tenn
Brendan Mebane, 6'1", 304, Cal

Since I believe we have an extra 3rd round pick (CWood comp.), I wouldn't mind taking a flyer on Michael Bush if he falls to this round.

Along those same lines, I really like the big play potential of Garrett Wolfe who is a carbon copy of Warrick Dunn. Wolfe would be available in the 5th/6th round.

He could be used in Kiffin's offense as a swiss brand army knife. Single set or 2 back formations, in the slot, on punt returns, as a 3rd down specialist, catching passes out of the backfield. He could be used like Bush was used at USC to provide big play potential.

5:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
Calico, I also like Wolfe... nice change of pace from Rhodes/Jordan... and surely an upgrade on Fargas.
Heartburn city for me with the Carr ordeal. Carr had an excellent running back and pro bowl receiver and still couldn't get the job done. I think Carr (and Walter) are guys that excelled in college when the game was slowed down. They are very smart with good arms... excelling when the defenses are slowed down to their speed. Not unlike a rattay, Meire, Gino torretta, all of the Cal QB's and countless others. When they get up in the NFL the speed of the game (defense) has been their demise. They are as much to blame for the sacks as their offensive lines... poor, slow indecision under pressure, no mobility, easy to bring down... no ability to audible/change the play when at the line.
Russell has played for three straight years against the nations quickest, best defenses, and has done well. Put Russell at Fresno St for three years and he'd have one the Heisman.
No I won't be swayed. Russell's the man we need. A leader. As big as the D-lineman. Walter and Carr are just newer versions of schroeder, george & collins.
If we blow this we have no one but al and Kiffen to blame.
We should take note of Vince Young's rookie year and how Houston jettisoned Carr because of that whole fiasco.

6:09 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

If Carr is released, that means we get him on the cheap. Getting him on the cheap would be an indication that we are still looking for the main gun. So if we pick up Carr or Culpepper on the rebound, it doesn't mean we are no longer interested in JRuss.

But a group of JRuss, Walter, and Culpepper or Carr is a group I can be comfortable with to start the season.

8:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
Agree totally... yes, just make sure Russell in the competitive mix

11:59 AM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

it's official. carr was released today. he was the 1st overall pick in his draft. a huge disappointment for the texans. i HOPE we get him and he finds himself with his former coach kiffin.

that just goes to show how much of a risk it is to picking a QB first overall. especially one (russell) that wasn't even regarded as a heisman finalist. granted, a heisman in your trophy case doesn't assure you of being a 1st overall pick. just ask troy smith. but at least being a heisman finalist gives the nation a hope that that player IS something special. in terms of ranking for the heisman, in '06 russell was 15th by fox sports, no listing by espn and he's not even considered as a candidate by many of the other sites on the web.

i was talking to a guy in one of the raider stores who also feels drafting russell would be a mistake. one game folks. one game!

3:24 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

It's not "one game," Scorpio. It never was, and it never has been. We Russell supporters are not so foolish that we watch one game and base all of our opinions on that.

I've reviewed his history, what people who know and work with him have said about him, I've reviewed film clips, I've read interviews with QB coaches who have reviewed his work and his history... Don't insult us like that.

Regarding the Heisman - Russell was a junior this last season. I read many articles, written prior to Russell anouncing for the draft, that Russell was considered the front runner for the Heisman in 2007.

I don't insult the intelligence of people who feel, for whatever reasons, that we should go in another direction. Please don't insult mine. Enough with the "one game" already.

I think it possible that we will acquire either Carr or Culpepper to keep JRuss's chair warm, and to be an insurance policy in the event JRuss turns out to be a bust. What could be better than that? Trading down to get ahold of some 5th/6th round O and D linemen who are no more or less likely to be busts?

3:44 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

Calico-

I think Harrell is more of a run stopper but Mebane is no slouch at all. Who would you take first, and what round? We've got eight picks right now, if we took Harrell in the 2nd or third and Mebane was available in the 4th, would you take them both?

4:13 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

BR,

If it comes down to Carr, or Culpepper, I'd go with Carr.

I don't think Culpepper has much mobility left, and he would probably get creamed behind our 0-line.

I still can't understand why so many who support Jruss now, were so down on Leinart last year.
Didn't Leinart have a much better college career than Jruss ?
I believe so.

And picking a Qb at the 7th spot last year was no brainer, which of course we screwed up.
Nothing agianst Huff, but Leinart is much better value at 7.

I'm still not sure about Jruss. I've seen all the video clips, all the great throws, and all the terrible ones too.

It's a tough pick to make.

4:15 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Raider00:

Personally, I like JRuss better than Leinart, but fair arguments can be had both ways.

Last year, I wasn't down on Leinart, I just thought we needed a safety more. We forget that our D wasn't good in 2005, although better than 2004, and many around here felt that our D needed improving as badly as our offense. Most of us were also excited about the prospect of Walter, and thought that bringing in Leinart would confuse the issue - especially since Walter had already been in the league for a year.

But it's different this year. Walter has disappointed many of us (Shell's offense and the OL not withstanding). I agree with Calico that Walter's game simply isn't fast enough for the pros, and he holds onto the ball too long. Game after game he failed to show improvement.

While the same criticism has been leveled at JRuss, it shows that he's gotten better over time.

5:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
Blandarocked has it nailed. What's wrong with having Carr, Walter & Russell compete for the #1 job? Can't beat that. Let the best man win.
I liked Leinert last year, but liked Vince Young better. I watched many of his games and he was flat out the best I'd ever watched. Leinert was awesome too but I knew the scheme was fantastic so I gave the nod to Young. Would have loved either one of them. Liked Cutler a lot too. Watched Cutler come within inches of upsetting Florida his senior year. Cutler had no help on offense... I mean no help and still played everyone close. He knows how to get rid of the ball. That's the key!
Scorpio, Heisman means nothing. I remember when Woodson won it. The media was ga-ga over the fact that he played a little offense and special teams in addition to his defensive duties. At that exact same time a guy named Champ Bailey was pretty much Georgia's go-to receiver in addition to his defensive duties. I remember thinking Champ looked better because he played almost every down on offense, but I figured I just hadn't seen enough of Woodson. The media didn't care about Champ. Well here we sit about 10 years later and Champ's pretty much known as THE best CB in football. But at the time Woodson was on a championship team so there's your difference.
When Champ Bailey was at Georgia he played alongside Marcus Stroud and Richard Seymour as DT's. They also had Boss Bailey (his brother) and Will Witherspoon at LB. They had Kendrell Bell at MLB. They had Charles Grant at DE.
If you follow the NFL you should know every one of those names. Two are some the best DT's in football. Kendrell Bell was defensive rookie of the year before he got hurt.
And georgia couldn't even when the SEC East then, much less the SEC crown.
My point is simply that Russell is an unbelievable talent, just as the scouts are saying, and he was something like 25-4 as a starter in the SEC. I wouldn't call Russell's experience "one game", but I would call it MUCH more seasoned than playing a Fresno State schedule.
You'll see, just like I told you about Demeco Ryans last year, there will be a bunch of SEC defensive stars in the NFL from this years crop of rookies. The SEC is overated at times but the defenses are always very fast and usually pretty good. Russell held up pretty well against some tough defenses.

6:25 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

carr might not want to keep a seat warm for russell or any other rookie QB. he'll go to a team where he can play. not only play but start. so if carr is signed, he starts. he'll be making millions here too because he knows he's wanted and needed. most likely they won't wanna pay 2 QB's close to 40 million. if russell is picked, he starts. how can 2 guys playing the same position making 40 mil total be on the same team? does that make financial sense? no. so if carr is signed, forget about russell because they'll pick johnson. that's just too much money tied up in one position. who's gonna get johnson the ball? that's where carr's experience comes in. he might not have done much in the league as far as winning but he does have the experience. but still in the mix - walter deserves his fair shake.

11:46 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

it might make more financial sense to get carr (he's the best of the rest and he's not coming off any major injury, except his psyche) and select a rookie QB in the 2nd or 3rd round. again that is, IF they select a QB at all.

1:01 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Carr could be brought in as a stopgap measure, same as Brooks last year. If he gets a better offer from another team, I’m sure he’ll take it. If the Texans were so anxious to dump him, why should we be so anxious to sign him and anoint him our starter? I don’t see Carr as a quality veteran presence.

6:11 AM  
Anonymous heartland raider fan said...

Wow David Carr released?
A QB, 1st pick overall, highly touted by all the "experts", cut outright???
I thought QB's adored by experts and fans before they're drafted all turnout to be franchise superstars. hmmmmm

6:57 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly_1gj5I-Bk

8:53 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

The problem with Carr was never that he was a bad quarterback. In fact I'd argue that we still don't know enough about him for the same reason we have doubts (either way) about Walter. He played for really bad teams.

Carr's biggest set back is that he came out of college after his junior year and was given the flagship role on an expansion team. He never had the chance to get the experience for such a role.

Nobody's asking the same thing of JRuss. Most who are advocating JRuss are saying that we start a veteran up until the time that JRuss shows that he's ready. I've always agreed with the Madden aproach. "Nobody is going to give you this job. You'll have to earn it."

8:55 AM  
Anonymous heartland raider fan said...

Unfortunately, an internet search couldn't provide me any results to provide Bama 7 with David Carr college highlight videos touting how great he was at Fresno State. I'm sure they exsist and are just as impressive. Too bad You Tube didn't exist then.
But I guess if someone (completely objective in opinion)made a video,and called him the "Best of the Best",(read: King of Kings) he must be the second coming.

9:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
Heartland- Russell might very well end up a bust. Hell, I don't know. I'm just sick of losing. I like Blandarocked's idea of having 3 QB's compete for the job. I say take Russell (or Quinn) and not worry about the 1st pick possibly busting and wasting money. There are no guarantees that any 1st round pick will work out regrdless of position. I like Russell because of his upside and physical tools and the fact that we have a new offensive coach, coordinator and scheme to marry that up with. A QB is only going to succeed if ths system is sound. PLus Russell has been pretty good when the games got tight... many 4th qtr come backs.
I am ready to have a leader at the QB spot so we can start slapping the donkeys, bolts and squaws around.

10:19 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Heartland-
every player in the draft is a roll of the dice, Russell, Johnson, Peterson, Gallery, Walter, SeaBass, etc. There are no exceptions.... no u-tube video required.

However, looking at the top of this year's class and the Raiders needs, I'd rather take a chance on a guy that could touch the ball 70 times a game, than a guy who might only touch it 10 times a game, and maybe not at all if we can't find someone to throw it to him.

For anyone who would rather take their chances with Carr at QB (and not draft Russell or Quinn), then perhaps you missed the Texans vs Raiders game last year.

I certainly wouldn't complain if we get Carr and Russell.

10:23 AM  
Anonymous heartland raider fan said...

What if three of those 10 touches are for touchdowns? 18 points....or are they going to start giving points for just touches?

10:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Two freaks in the draft.
Either one would be a blast.
Which one shall we draft?

I keep trying to come up with a scenareo where we could get another top 4 pick and end up with Calvin AND JRuss.

BamaRaider

11:15 AM  
Anonymous gary said...

>>>>
heartland raider fan said...

What if three of those 10 touches are for touchdowns? 18 points....or are they going to start giving points for just touches?
>>>>

And what if Russell is the next coming of Elway and we have a decade of success with him?

And what if Moss didn't QUIT on us?

And what if all those "locks" I bet on had actually came through... I'd be a millionaire.

You seem to be wanting 100% certainty in a science that is a complete crap shoot. Look at the Manning/Leaf draft... one was a flop, and the other is a HOFer with a ring. I'd take a 50/50 proposition that Russell is a HOFer.

We are desperate for a QB, and if that means we need both Carr and Russell, so be it.

Desperate times calls for desperate measures.

12:12 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Heartland-
...three TD's for 10 touches? You must have a great QB in mind, because our starting QB last year only had 3 TD passes all season.

Besides the obvious reasons to draft Russell, if we don't take him and he becomes the success many believe he will, the result for us will be one of the biggest all-time blunders in NFL draft history.

1:06 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Bama-
No disrespect to past great QB’s (college or NFL), but I’m not sure anyone could put together a montage of plays like the ones of JR on the you-tube link you posted. Forget that it’s college football. That should in no way detract from observing his pure athleticism. Is there anything this guy can’t do?

Despite what some people believe, Al Davis is no dummy. JaMarcus Russell equals ticket sales and victories.

1:35 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

NYraider - i reverse that comment. with victories comes ticket sales.

gary said:
And what if Russell is the next coming of Elway and we have a decade of success with him?

what if we don't?

true enough a wide receiver only touches the ball 10 or so times a game. but what if that receiver was so special that teams feared him, that every time he lined up for a play, defenses send double coverage his way and he happens to open up passing or running lanes for the other guys on offense?

we just cannot under estimate the value of a good suppporting cast. take david carr, draft johnson 1st, draft smart the rest of the way, re-build the line and we're set! teams have won superbowls with nobody's playing QB.

whether russell is successful or not somewhere else down the road doesn't matter 'cause we don't need him. carr will do for now, assuming we can sign him. next years QB draft class will be much better than this year. johnson WILL make a immediate impact for any team that wants him right NOW.

davis can brag his heart out that johnson was his pick the whole time.

3:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why is Walter's situation any different than Carr's. Walter hasn'gotten a fair shake from the fans.
Last year's team was so pitiful it's hard to imagine whatever NFL QB, who plays now, or ever played, could have had significantly more success.
I would suggest the Raiders pick up Carr, draft a 3rd or 4th round QB, and let Carr and Walter compete for starting position.
The Raiders don't desperately need a QB to carry a clipboard for a year and eat up cap space. They need an impact player that can contribute this season.
Draft Johnson.

4:18 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Scorpio-
My statement wasn’t cause and effect as you imply. I simply stated JR equals ticket sales AND victories. Fact is, JR will sell tickets before he takes his first snap. However, his success (or lack of) may determine future sales.

you said: “true enough a wide receiver only touches the ball 10 or so times a game. but what if that receiver was so special that teams feared him, that every time he lined up for a play, defenses send double coverage his way and he happens to open up passing or running lanes for the other guys on offense?”

Didn’t we already try that with Randy Moss? Moss has routinely been double-covered in opposing secondaries since his arrival.... and attitude had nothing to do with that; teams have always feared Moss.

Can someone please explain to me what they see in David Carr that his former employers do not?

5:08 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

new york, you can't compare moss' situation to johnson. as much as i like randy moss (i have his jersey) what did he ever bring in his 2 years here? injuries? bad attitude? davis brought him here with a police escort and showered his family with raider gifts. the organization showed their love but what has he ever done for us in return?

Johnson'll bring a new dimension to this offense. he'll bring what moss couldn't. so yeah, you can say we tried that all with moss but all we need is carr to get him, pouter or one of the kids ie: buchanon and/or madsen the ball and rebuild the line.

and please al davis - DO NOT bring culpepper here. THAT is an order. he is the QB people are comparing russell with but bringing him here would be a mistake. he's damaged goods.

raiderfans has a very good post in today's raidernews re: jr. QB's.

http://www.raiderfans.com/
article.php?story=
20070323210025187

6:56 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

NYRaider,

I don't really have a fear of passing on Jruss and his going on to have success else where.

If we don't take him, he most likely will end up in Detroit, where he will quietly fade away.

8:45 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

I’ll admit, it’s hard to criticize you guys for wanting C. Johnson. He is arguably the best player in the draft. My point is, is he the best player for the Raiders?

We have depth at WR and, assuming we can’t dump Moss, there’s simply no room. We have adequate RB’s and now a legit FB. Tom Cable has said our O-line is workable, and we just signed two TE’s to fill that hole.

Meanwhile, our QB situation is approaching DEFCON 1.

If the Raiders think Carr is the man, then they had better sign him before someone else does. Otherwise, what makes this year different from last year? Do we wait 'til the 11th hour and sign Brooks (or his equal) again? And what makes Carr better than Brooks? I just can’t get past minus 5 yards in a game. Any QB worth his pay finds a way to get things done... and positive yards would be a good start. Our D was good, but they’re not the ‘86 Bears!

IMO drafting Johnson is like hiring another VP when what you really need is a President and CEO. Stockholders aren’t going to like that... and our competitors will always have the edge on us until we hire the right guy to lead us.

7:38 AM  
Blogger azraider63 said...

Scorpio,
I read Raidersfans article on JR and they make some good points.

In response to that article, here is a list of WR's taken high in the modern era draft. 4 have been number 1 overall picks:

Keyshawn Johnson 1996', 11 years, 4 Pro Bowls.

Irving Fryer, 1984, 15 years, 5 Pro Bowls

Lawrence Elkins 1965, 2 years, 0 Pro Bowls.

Dave Parks 1964, 10 years, 3 Pro Bowls.

38 combined years played, 12 Pro Bowls and no Hall of Famers.

I'm not saying we don't draft Calvin Johnson based on these stats, nor should we let the information that was posted on Raiderfans dictate who we draft or do not draft. We can all point out stats and figures all we want.

I believe it was Gary in an earlier post that said, desperate times calls for desperate measures. I couldn't agree more.

I personally believe that drafting JR is a good idea, but I will not sit here all day to try and convince every other Raider fan of it (not saying you are) :) We all want the same result, wins.

I believe that Kiffen will get us where we want to be and I trust his judgement when it comes to the draft.

Have a good one.

9:27 AM  
Anonymous heartland raider fan said...

Scorpio posted this link to a great article.
http://www.raiderfans.com/
article.php?story=
20070323210025187
I would suggest it a good read...hell, I went and checked out all the JR links.

I see Walter not only had to absorb the abuse of 46 of the 70 plus sacks (add on the trips to the turf he took that weren't statisically recorded) that the Raiders suffered thru last year, but also ...the abuse of unappreciative fans.
Why is Walter taking the blunt of the blame for last season's failures??? Why is he being discredited, and discarded so readily by everyone?
I hear he lacks leadership and therefore the "desperate need" for a new QB. I recall Walter being benched for "standing up" and openly criticizing the offensive schemes and play calling. I also don't recall Walter pouting, putting forth less than a total effort,or giving up in losing causes. That shows me courage, a desire to win, and leadership. I'm tired of all the stats being posted on Russell's college career as evidence it ensures his abilities and talent in the NFL to replace Walter. How many of you ever took the time to compare Russell's stats to Walter's stats at ASU? Or is the PAC 10 not worthy enough to compare to the SEC?
Dream scenario....Draft calvin Johnson, sign David Carr,let Carr and Walter compete, Walter wins starting job and has a banner year behind a revitalized offensive line, a consistantly productive running game, and a passing attack that effectively utilizes his talents.
It will be fun to watch all the Walter nay sayers jump back on the band wagon and support him.

9:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

az raider
are you sure you want to keep Irving Fryar on your list??
15 seasons and 12,785 yards, 1 superbowl
surely he's qualified for the hall of fame

10:05 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

az raider
Dave parks played for SF when they sucked and then NO and they've always sucked. Is it Dave Parks fault he played for crappy teams? Is he really a bust as a 1st overall pick with a 15.6 yards per reception average spanning a ten year career?

10:13 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

This is worth re-posting because I can't seem to get an answer.

...Can someone please explain to me what they see in David Carr that his former employers do not?

Despite what we've seen of Carr first-hand, many pro-Johnson fans are ready to enter the season with only Carr, Walter and John David Booty to chose from at QB.

Is the QB position so much less important than WR? Because we already have some pretty good WR's.

11:32 AM  
Blogger azraider63 said...

Anon, 10:05 & 10:13

My point was not to question whether Fryer would be a futhure HOF'r, or give a rat's if Parks played for a terrible 40 Whiner team. I did NOT say that the WR's I listed were busts.

Simply, there have only been 4 WR's in the modern era to be drafted with the first overall pick. If the article in question is supposed to make us fear drafting JR because of previous QB's NFL production or lack there of, then I think it is only fair take a look at previous WR's taken with the first pick overall for those who say we should draft Calvin Johnson.

Based on the list I provided, NONE of them are HOF's. Not saying that Fryer was a bad receiver.

As far as Parks being on a bad team, we could say that about most of the QB's in the article I read.

Although I am guilty of posting stats to try and make a point, my backwards intention was to say that I really don't give a darn about what other QB's that have come out early have done or how they produced. Nor do I care about their stats. I also don't care about the production of Fryer, Parks, Johnson or Elkins.

I care about the Raiders draft this year and who the best player is based on our needs. I like Walter, but I think JR should be our first pick, not Calvin Johnson.

12:04 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

NY Raider, personally I can't give you an answer, because I don't know. In fact, I'm working on a post that poses the same question, which was the same question we were asking about Aaron Brooks last year after the Saints let him go.

12:29 PM  
Blogger azraider63 said...

NYRaider,

I agree with your 11:32 post. No answers here.

I personally would feel less comfortable about the QB position this year compared to last year if we enter the 07 season with Booty, Carr and Walter. (Although I do like Walter and followed his ASU career).

However if Kiffen decides that the above listed QB's give us the best chance of winning, I will support it, but with reservation.

12:40 PM  
Anonymous heartland raider fan said...

...Can someone please explain to me what they see in David Carr that his former employers do not?

Maybe there is a chance the Raiders can provide Carr the supporting cast and offensive scheme he never had in Houston.
I don't understand how some of you think a QB can produce the success of an NFL team all by himself. Carr, like Walter has the arm and the skills to be a successful, productive starter in the NFL with sufficient pocket protection, receivers and the running game he never had in Houston. Maybe us idiots think lightning can strike twice, or history can repeat itself and there's a Jim Plunkett style comeback residing in Carr's future.

Is the QB position so much less important than WR? Because we already have some pretty good WR's.
The Raiders already possess adequate talent(especially with the acquisition of Carr)
at the QB position to be successful next season.
Drafting an immeadiate impact player like Calvin Johnson is more practicle than wasting cap room on a player who won't see action for probably the whole season.Plus....I'm not sold on Porter's history as a Raider, the acquisition of Johnson puts the Raiders in a position to trade Porter as well as Moss.

az raider... why just wide receivers?
If the measure of success for a 1st overall draft pick is induction into the Hall of Fame and not production at their position, then it's only fair to look at every 1st overall pick reguardless of position and see how many of them were busts also.

1:26 PM  
Blogger azraider63 said...

Heartland,

Sorry for the confusion, I am not saying nor did I say that the measure of success for a number one pick is the HOF.

In this case, I did not include other positions because most of the discussion between us has been between J Russ (QB) and Calvin Johnson (WR).

You and Scorpio wanted all of us to read the article about QB's leaving early and how they have not produced, somehow making your case for us not to draft JR. Fair enough.

If I am not mistaken, you both lean towards Calvin Johnson with the first pick?

I think it is only fair to point out a similar comparison of WR's that have been taken first overall. I am not impressed with the list I provided. I also NEVER said that the WR's I listed were busts, simply stating a fact of who was drafted in the #1 spot.

Once again, I could care less about any QB's stats or success they have had coming out early or picked high in the draft. It should not be a determining factor in who we draft.

But you and Scorpio seem to be determined that we all read the article and draw a conclusion that we should stay away from JRuss due to past history. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but I think in your heart thats what you wanted us to read into it.

I respectfully disagree. That is why I felt compelled to list #1 overall pick WR's and their production. Good, bad or indifferent. I am not going to just give you guys a free pass to make the comparision of the QB's in the article to JRuss unanswered.

If I've said it once, I'll say it again. I know that we all want the same thing and that is for the Raiders to return to glory, kick everyone's a$$ and win the Super Bowl. We just have different opinions on how to get there and I really do respect yours and everyone elses. Even if you are wrong (just kidding...really).

2:21 PM  
Anonymous heartland raider fan said...

No sweat AZ ...half the fun of the off season is sharpening our wits on each other and then taking it to the rest of the NFL fans when the season starts.

2:28 PM  
Blogger azraider63 said...

Heartland,

Well said.

2:39 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

Heartland Raider Fan-

Thank you for finally revealing the existence of the Find The Next Plunkett/Gannon School of Thought.

From the discussions we've had on the Raider QB situation, I suspected that some of you were still waiting for the next Plunkett or Gannon to arrive in Oakland from some other team's scrap heap. It worked for us in the past, but so did the vertical offense. Art Shell, a living embodiment of the Raider Way, was ignominiously shown the door due to last year's debacle. If many of you feel that the vertical offense is outmoded in today's NFL, why are you so sure that looking for some castaway QB is the answer?

Kerry Collins lead the Giants to a Super Bowl before he joined the Raiders. How did he work out for us? Aaron Brooks threw for over 3,000 yards per season before Katrina. He was injured for much of the season and has more experience than Walter yet I do not hear you clamoring for his return. He played behind the same sorry line and showed better pocket awareness and evasion skills(can't say the same for Walter), yet you say give Walter another shot.

David Carr has only thrown for 3,000 yards ONCE, yet you say he is the way to go. In Houston Carr had a receiver who's got more receiving yards than our alleged #1 receiver(Moss), yet he still couldn't get the job done.

Maybe Carr could do something here in Oakland(combined with taking Calvin Johnson and getting rid of Randy Moss). Maybe not. But can you at least see the other side's point of view without sarcastically dismissing it?

At the end of the day, we are all Raider fans here. We all want to win, we just see different ways of getting there.

Now, what do you think of the rest of our needs? Now that Shell is gone, do you think they'll still try to turn Darnell Bing into a LB or let him play SS and free up Huff to play FS? And what do you think of us bringing in Josh Booty, who hasn't played a single game in the NFL?

4:16 PM  
Anonymous heartland raider fan said...

Realist
I guess I'd like to hear you tell me what scrap heap Gannon came from. He lead the Chiefs to the playoffs, winning a string of games in place of an injured Elvis
Grbach.
I'm not looking for Plunkett in the literal sense....but rather a castoff quality QB with a desire to play and win...someone that has been beaten, battered,and unappreciated. A QB in need of a new beginning with a more suitable offensive philosophy and committment to providing the protection and supporting cast for him to reach his potential.
I'm not stupid enough to want a dinosaur that only offers a strong arm. I recognize the fact that Kiffin's offense will be a west coast hybrid with a lot of short passes and timing routes. Both Walter and Carr have the ability to play and succeed within that type of system and still offer more than adequate arm strength to throw the long ball accurately when needed to keep the defenses honest and stretched to prevent them from loading the box with 8 players to stop the running attack.
Carr and Walter's failures are ancient history now and the result of playing in systems that failed to protect them adequately and provide a consistant, running attack to keep offenses honest. Carr, for the majority of his career played from behind on the scoreboard (Texan's weak defense) and rarely from a lead.
You bash Walter for his poor performance last year . Walter was a 2nd year player thrown to the wolves after Brooks was hurt.(I was never a Brooks fan and in my opinion he was a last resort pick the Raiders made from necessity after waiting too long to fill the head coaching position well into the free agency market) Walter didn't get the majority of snaps in training camp or the regular season until Brooks went down. Therefore considering the pitiful offensive line play and God awful play calling it's totally unfair to fault Walter completely in his first NFL starts.
On Bing....I see they are listing him on the team roster as an LB already. I would love to see him play the weak side and use his speed to occassionally rush the passer similar to Aaron Wallace in the 90's.
Josh Booty has yet to play a down in the NFL but if I'm not mistaken, neither has Russell. But either can equally ride the pine for a season behind Walter and hopefully Carr.

5:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

oops typo...I meant...running attack to keep defenses honest

heartland raider fan

5:39 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

As I recall, Gannon had bounced around the league(drafted by the Pats, played for Minnesota, Washington and K.C) before landing in Oakland. That is a journeyman QB in anybody's book. He did not truly excel until he arrived in Oakland.

As for Booty, are you comparing his college career to Russell's?

6:09 PM  
Anonymous heartland raider fan said...

realist???

And what do you think of us bringing in Josh Booty, who hasn't played a single game in the NFL?

No, I was answering your question

6:17 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

Heartland-

We probably won't agree with who to take with the 1st pick, but what about the 2nd pick? Would you take the best LT on the board, or would you take Justin Harrell or Brendan Mebane, the DTs Calico metioned. If Cable says the line scheme is all that needs fixing(for now) would we be better served by getting a run stopper?

6:49 PM  
Anonymous heartland Raider fan said...

In the 2nd round (if there still there) I would snag LB Paul Posluszny Penn State a good run stuffer, RB Brian Leonard Rutgers A bruiser or LT Tony Ugoh Arkansas

8:53 PM  
Anonymous gary said...

Well it seems the consensus amongst Raider fans is do we draft Russell or Johnson.

Let's look at this closely as a CEO would... bottom line. As one of the worst teams in the NFL, first and foremost, we need to attack our weaknesses. I don't think it would take much convincing to identify our most glaring weakness as QB. He is the leader of the team, the CEO of the offense... thus the most IMPORTANT variable... to argue otherwise is nonsense... sure crappy QB's have won SB's but there are prolly 36 of 41 of them that weren't just average.

So how do we fix this? I don't think you fix the QB situation by bringing in another stud WR and hoping either a career-long loser, or a dude that couldn't throw a ball in the ocean at the end of last season (regardless of the reasons why)... the shareholders aint gonna be too happy.

Al wants to win, but he is also a businessman first... IF both Carr and Walter suck again, we are looking at 4 wins tops, and then we start the same frigging process all over again next season (while looking at empty seats throughout the last ha;f of the season... thus picking JRuss is a no-brainer.

He gives us the most chance for success and the shareholders are happy because he gives us the most HOPE... and that translates to asses in the seats.

Moss has already proven that a stud WR on a crappy team doesn't mean dick. Two frigging wins? We paid him what, 4.5 million a win?

Curry is prolly better than Johnson already... build an offense around him and JRuss.

9:06 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

News about Darnell Bing:

http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/2007/03/raiders_bing_will_have_chance.html

I still wonder if he might be moved to SS so Huff can play at FS?

1:36 AM  

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