Tuesday, January 30, 2007

A Renegade Trade Proposal

I just received the following email from someone named Stirg. I get lots of interesting emails, but this one was particularly mysterious and intriguing, and therefore worthy of reprinting.

I'm assuming that Stirg has absolutely no connections with the Atlanta Falcons' front office, which may explain why he's enlisting me to orchestrate a trade with the Raiders. It's a brilliant plan. After all, as Randy at Raider Nation Podcast alerted me, the Miami Dolphins actually sought season ticket holder input on the hiring of their next coach. So why shouldn't Raider Take, with your feedback and guidance, be able to swing a trade? At this rate, I'll be having Thanksgiving dinner at Amy Trask's house later this year.

Anyhow, here's Stirg's email. What do you think?

I'm seeking personnel from the Raider Nation that would be interested in trading their number one 2007 draft pick to Atlanta; for Matt Schaub and the Falcons number ten pick. Before laughing at the hypothetical situation, think about it for sixty seconds (you're on the clock).

Both teams get what they want. As a matter of fact, Oakland can kill two birds with one stone in the first round. Consider this: Matt Schaub has been a pupil to the west coast offense for seven years (to include proud ownership of every major passing record in the history of the University of Virginia). His pro-career began in Atlanta and he has spent the last three seasons learning, you guessed it, Gregg Knapp's offense; and, I might add, he has perfected it. Oakland, then, can choose to use their number ten pick (received in the trade) for Dwayne Jarrett, (you guessed it again) Lane Kiffin's star pupil. This offense, coupled with the #3 best ranked defense in the N.F.L. last season, would immediately scare most teams and return the Raiders to playoff contention.

Atlanta could choose the obvious, Calvin Johnson, with the number one pick, making him most marketable behind his Atlanta roots. Games would continue to sellout and an enormous amount of pressure is lifted off Michael Vick's publicly-exposed-shoulders.

Let's set the record straight...I'm a true Atlanta fan and I enjoy every down Matt Schaub has played for the Falcons; I would hate to see "a starter on most N.F.L. teams" go. The reality of it, however, is Vick is a lock at the position and Schaub will never see playing time, as long as Vick is healthy. This trade, actually, is perfect and can satisfy both parties (Atlanta is going to lose Schaub, eventually; and Oakland should consider that it takes a rookie Quarterback about three years to learn Gregg Knapp's offense [see Michael Vick '03-'06]). Oakland Raiders will, otherwise, receive only one professionally unproven player in the draft, if they continue to maintain their position at number one. With this trade, however, they can solidify their greatest needs at Receiver and Quarterback, in one round.

Consider the posibilities from the perspective of both clubs; and, it is possible the trade can be achieved. After all, in 2001, Atlanta traded up, sending LaDainian Tomlinson to San Diego, and ended up with the greatest QB to change the game of football.

Go tell that to Mr. Davis.

Stirg

69 Comments:

Blogger gcp said...

I am not as high on Shaub as other people but the interesting aspect is the Falcins have a history of trading away future super stars (Farve, LT) is Shaub the next one?

4:54 AM  
Anonymous GhostRaider said...

The 1st overall pick for Matt Backup?

LMFAO.

He isn't in Russells or Quinns class.

No way.

5:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't know where all this Shaub support has come from. He never played an amazing game. He just played ok. I wouldn't trade a first round pick for him, let lone the #1 pick in the draft. I'd give them Randy or Porter for Shaub. Hell, I'd give Randy and Porter.

5:28 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Yeah! If Vick is "the man" in Atlanta and they need a receiver, send them Moss... for free if necessary.

5:40 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To say there's a few flaws in this proposal would be kind. First of all knowing Knapp's offense merits nothing since it's not going to be Knapp's offense (remember?). Second, trading a #1 pick for a backup up qb and a #10 pick?
Com'on!

5:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah, what has Schaub done to be so dearly loved? What he has done reminds me of Scott Mitchell. He is 0-2 as a starter and Atlanta is 0-6 in games that he has played in. Plus Kiffin is the one calling the plays and designing the offense. I don't hink Schaub is the worst QB ever, but this trade offer may be one of the worst I ever heard.

5:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is Schaub worth the #5 pick? Let's do the math on this one...

#1 = 3000 pts
#10 = 1300 pts

#1-#10 = 1700 pts = #5

So to get equal value #1 =#5 + #10. I wouldn't trade the #5 for Schwab, I would have doubts about trading the #33 but this deal is ridiculous! Schaub will be a UFA next year unless we pay him big money, I would rather give our 4th for David Carr.

6:07 AM  
Blogger Marrio TheBlackGuy said...

Utterly ridiculous! I'll give Stirg 60 seconds to withdraw his nonsense, the clock starts...NOW! Give me a break we can get that deal for LJ alone and still have Moss to trade and Porter to haggle with. Give me Russell or Peterson and work out the rest..Nuff Said.

6:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

First of all, we aren't going to be running Knapps offense, he won't even be calling the plays. we are going to be running kiffen's offense.

i do think we need to look at something however. living in a place where i have watched Russell every year. ( I live in Houston, TX, and watch a lot of LSU games), i'm not so sure that he is the right pick for us. i'm actually hoping that Adrian Peterson has a perfect combine and we take him

6:28 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2007/nfl/freeagents.html

According to this site, Matt Schaub is a Free Agent.
Why should we "trade" our #1 pick for a #10 pick for a Free Agent? Especially if we can just "sign" the Free Agent and keep our #1 pick.

I said it before in another post. Randy Moss, and our 2nd Round Pick, to Baltimore for Mike Anderson and their 1st Round Pick.
That's a better debate worth talking about.

7:10 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Besides, if we want to really pursue a QB with the talent to run a WC offense, and throw the Long Ball as well, and have the same tenacity as Rich Gannon did; look no further than Free Agent QB Jeff Garcia.

7:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the yahoo, forgot that we are not goign to use Knapp's offense. We are goign to use Kiffin's

7:20 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Don't like it. Shaub is almost as big a question mark as JR. Also, we're not going to be using a pure Knapp style WC offense. Knapp is the OC, not the HC.

8:51 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Well, the Nation has spoken, and Stirg isn't even close to convincing anyone. Schaub's looming free agency is an obvious clincher.

Still, the concept of trading down for a later pick and a strong player or two (or more picks), and saving millions of dollars in the process, isn't necessarily ridiculous, and may in fact be under consideration.

#1 pick Mario Williams signed a six-year $54 million contract with a guarantee of $26 million. #10 pick Matt Leinart signed a six-year contract for a maximum of $50 million but only $14 million guaranteed. That's a potential savings of $12 million million if the player flames (paging Robert Gallery) out or suffers a devastating injury.

You can bet that Mr. Davis is doing the math and keeping creative options on the table.

9:26 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

I'm still of the belief, more so this year than in years past, that the disposition of the #1 pick will largely be decided by Coach Kiffin. I realize that I may be in the minority here, but I haven't heard any former Raider coaches say they were given insufficient input.

9:39 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Also:

Didn't I hear over the weekend that Kiffin actually made a front office hire? This would indicate to me that many posters here at Raider Take have gotten their wish. Davis is giving Kiffin authority. Just how much, I don't know yet. But it seems to be more than in years past (possible exception of Gruden). It could just be that Kiffin is one of the few who has had the cajones to use that authority.

9:46 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ROFLMFAO...Sure, we can do that. But it will cost your 1st, 2nd, and 3rd picks. Just Schaub and your 1st for the NUMBER ONE OVERALL pick is clearly not worth it.

10:03 AM  
Blogger Doobie said...

FYI, per the SF Chronicle, it appears that Jackie Slater was given his walking papers and that Tom Daishler has left the team for the Browns.

Thank God. Maybe the o-line is in for a turnaround now.

10:10 AM  
Blogger Stirg D. Nahsif said...

You Raiders, Raiders, Raiders...

My name is Stirg (that's spelled grits, backwards, to demonstrate my southern authenticity) and "grits" is what you are going to get by holding on to the number one pick, doing nothing. I initiated this proposal and can not believe the inconsideration.

Let's comply, for a moment, with ghostraider's comments: ...draft Russell or Quinn (or any QB) with the number one pick. Do you actually think a ROOKIE QB can come into the league and take a 2-14 team to a playoff game? You're not drafting a Tom Brady to take snaps behind a pro-bowl line and be tutored by hall of fame, and eventual, head coaches. Reality is, you're going to waste the pick on a player that has only proven himself among the college ranks; neither of your choices, for the number one pick, won the Heisman. I know that's not saying much but if I'm going to spend my number one pick on something unproven, let me pick the best unproven player.

In other words, if I'm going to have surgery, I want the doctor with the most professional experience available; I do not want the intern, just because he graduated medical school in 2006 with the best precision in his hands. He didn't even win the coveted Best Medical Student award. No; give me Dr. Matt Schaub.

Schaub has not proven himself to football fans because of Vick. You, on the west coast, don't know Matt Schaub because his highlights don't play on ESPN. An anonymous blogger asked "Yeah, what has Schaub done to be so dearly loved?" If it weren't for Mike Vick, you'd know. You point out The Falcons record of 0-6 when Schaub played. Fact is, Schaub entered those games when the Falcons were counted out, anyway. What's the buzz about this Matt Schaub, you ask? When he played in those six games, he noticibly did some things Vick could not do: like, stay in the pocket; pass first, throw the ball away; connect with receivers; and, most of all, UNDERSTAND Gregg Knapp and his version of the west coast offense.

You better not believe for one minute, that your new, professionally inmature, head coach is not going to consider Knapp's input, game planning, and coaching expertise. Raider's ownership is not about to pay 750k to someone to just wear a title. Knapp will definitely have an impact on the QB. If the QB fails, its the head coaches fault; if the QB meets expectations, the OC did a great job.

With this trade, Raiders is not only getting an established west coast QB, you're getting whatever else you want (I suggested Dwayne Jarrett) at number ten. That transaction, alone, immediately returns the Raiders to the playoffs.

On the other hand, trade not; and use the overall pick on a rookie QB. If (and that is a very big IF) he starts, he has three years from that day to prove his worthiness of being selected at number one. If you don't believe me, ask Mike Vick. Critics familiar with the west coast offense, realistically gave him three years to learn the system under Gregg Knapp. The result? Fans are now lobbying for playing time from Matt Schaub.

The ugly truth to this reality is, neither Russell nor Quinn is a Mike Vick; and you are considering the number one pick on both.

I'll see you in the 2010 playoffs.

Stirg D Nashif

10:10 AM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

I think that's a NO to stirg. going along with the consensus, that's too much for an unknown. although i like the 1st anonymous' suggestion too.

i like russell too BUT AL said he wanted to draft leinart last year over shell's pick of huff. or was AL lying through his dentugrip? WELL THEN AL, i say if you want to right a wrong, then do as i suggested earlier and trade our 1 and walter to AZ for their '06 and '07 first rounder AND leinart then pick peterson with that 5 overall. this will reunite kiffen with leinart and al will be happy he has his co-called choice of last year. in as much as AZ is always rebuilding, they'd still have a QB of the future and walter will be back in AZ where he will be in a comfort zone and broke college records.

as much as i like russell, i wouldn't be surprised if they actually pick quinn who is a USC type of QB to run their offense. yes, russell has more upside but quinn is ready to play now.

just my 2 cents.

10:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We don't have a clue if Schaub is worth a damn. The guy started a few games and returned to the bench if you remember. To give away the number one pick in the draft for a q/b that no one knows if he can play at the level expected, is not the way to go. Based on what we have seen of Russell he has as much potential as Schaub, in fact, more. I think it would be crazy to give up the one pick for Schaub. I'd give them Randy and Porter for free if they would take over their contract. I think you have to ask youself, "why is Schaub still sitting on the bench if he is so good", or why hasn't he been traded, maybe they are asking to much for him.

10:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I distinctly remember when a new head coach released Jeff George and signed a journeyman qb named Rich Gannon. I am for trading the #1 pick because the Raiders haven't developed a first round QB since, EVER! I too am enamoured by the prospect of having a JR but at what is sure to be a ridiculuos signing bonus. Now if Schaub is a FA of course don't trade the pick for him. but definitely if he is a free agent then trade that pick for multiple picks to address DL, RB and OL (not necessarily in that order)

10:36 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

Strig:

Learn something about the Raiders. We're not using the WC offense. We're using the offense that Kiffin learned from Norm Chow. It's a hybrid and not a pure WC offense.

Second, we have other things to trade besides our #1 pick. So it's possible we can get both JR AND Jarrett.

Third, we have the first pick in EVERY round of the draft, not just the 1st, plus an extra #5.

Fourth, if Shaub is so wonderful, why aren't you pushing for trading Vick to us?

10:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Some good and bad comments here. I like the play of JR, but as a Raider fan I am not sure that I am prepared to watch the team spend 50 million on one player when one player is not going to fix the offense. Not one of our current offensive linemen blocked effectively last year. Everyone is stuck on the fact that we have the #1 pick when all that means is that our team is in trouble. There is not one player in this years draft that would make enough of a difference to draft them #1. We need to trade down for more picks and possibly quality free agents.

11:06 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Grits, errr Stirg, you are forgetting the #1 factor I mentioned earlier; SCHAUB IS A FREE AGENT! We can keep our #1 pick, draft Russell, and SIGN Schaub without giving the Falcons anything. Besides, Jeff Garcia is a Free Agent too, and I'd rather sign him than Schaub.
If I do a deal with Atlanta, here is what I do.
Randy Moss, and the #1 overall pick, to Atlanta for their 1st and 2nd Round picks, and Alge Crumpler. The #1 overall pick would cost you Alge Crumper and your 1st round pick. You need a WR, especially after Lelie just voided his option. Moss would cost you the 2nd Round.

11:16 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Stirg, for someone who thinks that Shaub is so great, you sure are anxious to get rid of him. I really do not know much about the guy, but you are apparently very high on him.

So you want Calvin Johnson, Eh?

Well, for every offer, there is a counter offer, and here it is:

We will trade you our number one for Vick and your number one and your number two. You get to keep your precious Shaub and he gets Johnson as his go to guy down the field.

With our first pick at number 10 we will take DeWayne Jarret... WTF? Are you kidding me? With the number 10 pick we will select Marshawn Lynch. If Lynch is not there at number 10 I will still probably regret that I made this risky trade.

There ya go, take it or leave it.

11:18 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Anon said, "We will trade you our number one for Vick and your number one and your number two. You get to keep your precious Shaub and he gets Johnson as his go to guy down the field."

HELL NO! We don't need another cancer on our offense. That's worse than the original proposal! There are better trade proposals out there. The Falcons really don't have any barter room to trade for the #1 overall pick. Vick is not what this team needs, and neither is Schaub for that matter.
Bury fantasies of Vick and Schaub for the #1 overall pick in the draft. Neither are worth the quality of having that title.

11:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Calm down raider nate 75, I don't really want Vick either and don't think he is the answer, but if they will give us their number two and I can pick up Lynch in the first, I would do it.

Then we would still have 2 high picks in the 2nd round plus all our other picks.

I would take Adrian Peterson over J Russell with the first anyways and Lynch may be the better NFL back.

And nothing like this is going to happen. Al and Kiffin are not going to trade out of the number one.

11:43 AM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

You tell 'em, Raider Nate!

11:45 AM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

It's not April 1st yet !!!!

Worst trade of all time.

You never, ever, trade the number one overall pick, and end up at number 10. NEVER.
If we do trade the pick, we have to stay in the top five, at least.

And what exactly has Matt Schaub ever done in the NFL ????

Let's just keep our pick, and work on trading away bubblehead Moss, the quitter who doesn't care.

11:57 AM  
Blogger raiderdecoachella said...

Scorpio (10:10)

I really liked this particular take,(other than the Al comment) it was real good man, I can honestly tell you that I am 100% with you on verything that you said here.

12:52 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

I think it was already said earlier, but here is why I'd rather have J-Russ over Schaub and Vick, despite the inexperience.
Schaub has been in the NFL 3 years, Vick 6. Vick is (to me) equivalent to Aaron Brooks, they both have potential to be better than what they are, but they've had their time to prove it. They both continue to make simple mistakes when it comes to "reading a defense;" and are both easily flustered in the pocket and try to "force" a play.
Schaub plays backup to Vick, and has never been able to pull ahead of him to even challenge Vick's starting position. He has only started 2 games in his 3 year career, and has played in 5 games overall. He has 84 Completions, out of 161 Attempts, for a 52.2%, 1033 Yards, 6 TD's, 6 INT's, a QB Rating of 69.2%.
I would rather take a chance at a new face in the NFL, and teach him through experience; than make another attempt at a failed QB (Vick and Brooks), or one who has tried to learn by clipboard and cannot prove himself (Schaub).
As mentioned by me earlier, especially when there are better, and proven QB's (Garcia) in the Free Agent market that a young QB could learn from.

1:51 PM  
Blogger lotus_eater said...

what has this guy(shaub) done anyway?
why on earth are bird-fans high on him?

1st ovr-all pick for him?
u gotta be BLEEPIN' kidding me?

something smells fishy here
strig sounds like petri!!

2:12 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

In fairness to Strig, he's offering Schaub AND the 10th overall pick for our first overall pick.

The biggest flaw in his proposal is that Schaub is a restricted free agent in 2007.

3:31 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

RT:

The word is that Atlanta won't attempt to resign Shaub. If nobody gives them a #1 pick, and I doubt that they will, Atlanta will wind up releasing him, meaning anybody can sign him if they are willing to be patient and wait.

Me thinks stirg is under the impression that Raider fans just fell off the turnip truck.

Stirg, when you're picking in your fantasy football draft this year, go for the punters first because they go really fast.

3:42 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

I don't give a rats a$$ about Schaub !!!!
Andrew Walter is better than Scrub.

Here are some trades I'd like to see.

Captain Moss for Sean Taylor.

Moss for Santana Moss.

Moss for Kellen Winslow Jr.

Moss for Jeremy Shockey.

Moss to Dallas for Rob Carpenter.

Moss for a top 20 first round draft pick(take LT Levi Brown).

Moss to Fox for Howie Long.

Moss in any deal that brings back Leinart (Scorpio for GM !!!).

Pretty much, just trade Moss.

3:57 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

How about Moss and a nickel for five cents' worth of jack squat?

4:10 PM  
Blogger BlandaRocked said...

How about Moss to Miami for the rest of the allegator?

4:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Get dope out your vein and put hope in your brain. You will never get anywhere smokin the pipe

5:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bama7
Raider Nate and others have pointed out that the Schaub trade is a fruitless exercise in thought because Atlanta has no real say in the thing.
Schaub or Russell could turn out good or bad. We just don't know. But I like Russell because he has the best arm I have ever seen. And it's not a Jeff George or A. Walter type thing, because Russell, unlike those other two statues, has mobility and power too. The guy's as big as a DE and can throw the ball 80 yards. C'mon. He's what? 19? You gotta roll the dice on that. If we lose, so be it. Heck, if QB doesn't work out, slap his ass at LB!
You cannot pass this guy up. He has potential to be like Vince Young on steroids.
The Schaub situation reminds me of when we went after Schroeder. All you oldesters remember those days? Schroeder was up in DC and had come in and mopped up a bit for Doug Williams, and had performed admirabley. Suddenly he was very hot and in demand. Everyone thought he was a hidden gem... a future star, stuck behind a quality vet with a superbowl ring. Well, we all know how that fiasco turned out.
No, I don't think you can pass on Russell. 6'6 260 and, having watched SEC football religously, I can tell you he's done nothing but get better as his career went along.
I'm also for giving Moss a break. He was a slacker but shit Art Shell and Walsh had no business leading an NFL offense. Even Hostetler and Brown were calling it antiquated back in 1994. What must it have felt like for veterans like Moss and Crokett in the year 2006?
Pee-Wee ball.
And think about it... c'mon, we all knew. No one was really pumped about Art and Walsh. Tell the truth. NO ONE could really believe it last year when they came aboard. It was like a nauseous time warp. We just hoped it work. Well, the offense practiced it for several weeks and I don't think anyone... I mean no one... had faith in it. Guys like Moss just have less patience. But in the end he knew. With Walsh's scheme you could have had Montana, Emmit Smith, and Jerry Rice in their prime and they'd have sucked.
Let's go with Moss and Russell AND KIFFEN's offense and see what hapens. And get Lamont "dance like a bicth" JOrdan some to share carries with. He needs a complimentary back. Danny Ware - Georgia- 2nd Rd.
Ship Porter anywhere... hell, pick up a quality FB for his worhless ass. He's TO without the production. Who needs that?

6:00 PM  
Anonymous Spank Em said...

Shaub, WHY? NO THANKS!
Moss to Green Bay would be a much better deal. Farve, would take him.
Well that's what he says now. But, by the end of the first half of the season he would beg to get rid of him. But, at least Raiders would
be done with him.
IF AL Davis, wants a QB, with the first pick, then it should be JaMarcus Russell. Tui, will be gone in March so the Raiders can sign a Vet, to back up Russell and
Walter..

6:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To add on what others have said Jeff Garcia is also one of Knapp's students.

6:42 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Sorry for jumping into this late. Grits' trade suggestion isn't plausible or a good value which has been covered. 2 points that haven't been mentioned are the following;

(1) More than likely, ATL will tender Schaub a 1 year contract to insure that they would get compensatory picks if another team wants to sign him

(2) More than likely with a new HC, ATL will want to keep him as a back up to Vick who is injury prone and on thin ice.

I'm a little bit curious and puzzled about why it isn't almost unanimous that the Raiders should take JRussell with the #1 pick.

Think about it. How many times have we been in the following situation:

(1) Have the #1 pick
(2) Have a need for a franchise QB
(3) Have a prospect like JRussell staring us in the face

My gut feeling is that any doubts or reservations that Davis/Kiffin have about taking JRussell will be put to rest at the combine and personal workouts. His phyical tools are off the chart.

Just wondering ... but what part of his game, skills, and makeup is anyone questioning? What are the concerns? I realize that the price tag and cap implications have been discussed. Assuming that the price tag is $54M+ ($26M+ guaranteed) is the reward to risk ratio not worth investing in a player who could make the greatest possible impact on the team's fortunes? Your thoughts and feedback is welcome. I'm firmly in the camp to take JRuss.

7:24 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Raiders.com has just posted that Freddie B has officially retired.

This news coupled with the other recent staff changes seems to indicate a changing of the old guard... and lends itself to a few important questions.

Does Kiffin have more authority than is typically granted by Al?

Has the recent 2-14 season and 4 year downturn caused Al to rethink his ways of piloting the ship?

I raise my pint of Guiness high in the air and toast #25. His artistry on the gridiron and dedicated service to the Silver and Black will always be honored and cherished. Cheers Freddie B. Enjoy your golden years with a cold one up in the box with 00 and Al.

7:47 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

Calico,

For my part, I have nothing against Jrus. In fact I have only seen him play one time, the bowl game vs ND.
He was impressive, but perhaps, a bit overhyped since.

I ask myself, what if Colt Brennan had been the one to shred ND's swiss D, which he certainly would have. Would we all be screaming for him to be the number one pick ?

Also, how many Qb's drafted 1 overall go on to win the SB ?
Plunkett, Elway, Aikman, yes, but many more have failed.

Again, I am not against drafting a QB. I thought Leinart at 7 last year, would have been tremendous value.

When you have the # one overall pick, maybe you almost have to take a QB, I don't know.

Payton Manning is another top pick, and he may win it all on Sunday.
The opposing Qb Grossman, is really terrible.

If the Bears win, maybe that will tell us there are more important things than a Qb, in order to win the SB.

8:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

CJ-

It was rumored that Freddie has been thinking about retiring for the last few years. That is why the Kiff hired a new assist to coach the WR's. So to some of us it is a surprise and other's, well who knows?

But I was too shocked to hear of this. I didn't think these kind of changes would happen so soon. But the best of luck to Freddie B. he was truely a class act player and coach. He will be missed by many of us.

8:19 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Raider 00 - Brennan probably would have fared very well vs. ND. However, there are HUGE difference between Brennan and Russell as pro prospects (no pun intended!)

Brennan is 6'3", 190. Russell is 6'6", 260. Obviously Russell's arm strength and physical tools are far superior. One of the biggest differnces when viewing these 2 as prospects is the level of competition that faced. The SEC had 6 teams in the top 25 while the WAC had 1 team in the top 25.

1 - Florida
3 - LSU
5 - Boise St
9 - Auburn
15 - Arkansas
23 - Georgia
25 - Tennessee

Anon 8:19 - One of the other points that I didn't highlight in terms of Kiffin's authority is his hiring of Mark Jackson. Jackson was the Dir. of Football Operations at USC and is joining the Raiders in a front office capacity. When was the last time that a Raider HC hand picked/hired someone for the front office? This is a significant change in the way that Al usually operates.

9:19 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

Calico,

I agree with you that Jrus is a better prospect than Brennan.

All I am saying is a lot of college Qb's could have, and did in fact, tear up the ND defense all season long.

I saw Michigan States Qb rip up ND's D pretty good.
Michigan's Qb knocked them around too.
So did Kiffin, Booty, and USC.

So Jrus did it too, but how much should we read into it ??

10:27 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

great! maybe now we can draft SC's entire offensive line to protect our QB!

:o)

10:30 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

coachella - thanks. we actually agree on something!

:o)

11:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The kid is 6'6", 260 and 19 years old, golden arm, as big as if not bigger than most guys that would be trying to tackle him, mobility beyond his size. Sooooo...case closed, first round done. Let's discuss realistic second round possibilities, 3rd, 4th, etc. Free agency, another topic to discuss when thinking about our OL.

Also, can someone tell me exactly why I should not like Porter? All I hear is him getting lumped in with Moss however I know what's wrong with Moss. To be honest, I don't see either receiver going anywhere and if I were either of them, I would be salivating at the thought of playing with Russell and under a new wave offense under Kiffin. But who knows? That's just me.

...Franco...

5:22 AM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Do you think Al gave him this authority because he is tired of the negative press about how he controls the team too much?
Do you think Al gave him this much authority, because like Freddie B, he knows his time is short as General Managing Partner?
Do you think Al gave Kiff this much authority because he wants Kiff to be General Managing Partner when it's all done?
Do you think that this is why Sarkisian pulled out, because it was too overwhelming for him?
I think the answer to all of these questions is the same......YES!

5:55 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

This thing is (so far) playing out better than most of us could have scripted.

- hire an aggressive x’s & o’s HC (with a vision).

- give him a veteran x’s & o’s OC (to help implement and fine-tune his new system).

- release under-performing assistants from the Shell regime (exit Walsh, Slater, et al).

- filter out some of the old-guard, Raider-family assistants (hail to Freddie, a Raider legend).

- create a synergy throughout the coaching staff and in the front office with the addition of personnel-savvy individual(s).

Tender offers to veteran assistants (e.g., veteran OL coach).

Maybe it’s time for the Al-bashers to back off a bit. Think about it. Al is allowing (perhaps overseeing) this un-Raider-like metamorphosis. Perhaps Kiff is every bit the salesman he is suggested to be (as a former USC recruiter).

6:22 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Franco, nobody seems to truly know the Porter situation, except everyone seems ready to hang the man for disrupting "the culture." The problem with many theories or positions is that this is not about a "culture" more than it's about a business (of winning games).

Whether or not by design, Freddie B’s retirement will allow malcontent Jerry Porter to further separate himself from the coaches that kept him on the sidelines last season, namely, Shell and Biletnikoff, and perhaps he can be a contributing factor at WR (under a new and improved system).

However, for those who believe we should keep Moss and trade Porter, I would ask, what evidence can you present that Porter may not perform at a high level once he’s put in a game situation? On the other hand, we all saw Moss short-arm passes and jog pass routes to the point of nauseam.

If either is shown the door, it should be Moss.

9:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let's examine our history over the last decade.

WC styled offense, 3 division titles and a SB appearance.

"Vertical" offense our best season was 5 wins.

Is it just me or am I missing something.

http://www.raiderfans.com/article.php?story=20070201081853658

10:59 AM  
Anonymous LK said...

No, for all the reasons already stated, plus, Jarrett has bust written all over him [see Mike Williams]

12:21 PM  
Anonymous Raider Nate 75 said...

Anon, let's break it down even more.
Teams that run a hybrid WC/Gilman offense, that Kiffin is going to implement,in the last decade.
1997-New England AFC Champs
1998 and 1999-Denver Super Bowl Champs
2000-St Louis Rams, Super Bowl Champs (Tennessee AFC Champs)
2002 2004 and 2005-New England Patriots, Super Bowl Champs (St Louis '02 NFC Champs; Carolina '04 NFC Champs)
2003-Tampa Bay, Super Bowl Chumps (Oakland AFC Champs)
2006-Pittsburgh, Super Bowl Champs (Seattle NFC Champs)

Compared those with teams that run the straight Gilman/Vertical offense.
1997-Green Bay Packers, Super Bowl Champs (The last straight Gilman/Vertical offensive team to win a Super Bowl).
1998-Green Bay Packers, NFC Champs
1999-Atlanta Falcons, NFC Champs
2001-Baltimore Ravens, Super Bowl Champs (NY Giants, NFC Champs)
2005-Philly Eagles NFC Champs

2:03 PM  
Blogger Doobie said...

Calico et all,

I don't really follow college football that much, or at least not to the extent that a lot of you guys probably do.

My concerns about Russell are these...does he have the mental acumen necessary to make it in the NFL? Has he been successful for more years than just 2006?

I keep hearing about J-Marc's tools, but those tools won't be worth much if he's not going to be able to pick up an NFL offense, make reads, etc. At least with Brady Quinn, he's had decent success for the last few years under Charlie Weis. He may not have as strong an arm as Russell, but that's a trade off I'm willing to make if he's going to have a better head on his shoulders.

Right now I just fear that the Raiders are going to jump on a one-year wonder with monster tools but who also has a greater potential to be a bust (ala Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, etc.) If Russell fits that mold (and, like I said, I don't follow a lot of college football), then I'd rather take a Brady Quinn.

So should we be feeling "minty fresh" about Russell as the #1 overall pick, or should we be concerned?

2:17 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

Brady Quinn has gotten a lot of hype, but other than the service academies who has he beaten? If I'm not mistaken he's been 0-4 against SC, 0-4 in each bowl game he's been in, and that's with that "pro-style offense" that Clarlie Weiss is running. Reminds me of another highly touted Notre Dame QB. Does Rick Mirer ring a bell?

2:33 PM  
Blogger Doobie said...

Realist: Yeah, but it's hard to get into that game of past QBs when you're reaching pretty far into the past. Mirer was drafted 14 years ago in 1993. But exactly 14 years before THAT, there was another ND QB drafted in the 3rd round named Montana who turned out to be pretty good.

3:21 PM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

doobie:

That's ONE out of how many since then?

5:08 PM  
Blogger Doobie said...

Hey, one great then one bad, it's been another 14 years so the trend looks positive for us! :)

6:14 PM  
Anonymous DownSouthRaidersFan said...

The Raiders are in a win win situation here where we can draft Russell of Sign Schaub. I like everyone else have my opinion as to what moves I think we need to make. Fist let me start off with saying that the orignal trade offer is NEVER going to happen. First and foremost because Schaub is a RFA or unrestricted free agent. If we decide we want Schaub all we have to do is offer him a contract and then The Falcons would have 7 days to match our offer. If they didn't match our offer,which they couldn't because they have a stoner QB that makes 25,000,000 a year for doing nothing, then and only then would have to compensate the Falcons with draft picks in NEXT YEARS DRAFT. Under NO circumstances would we have to give up the #1 pick to sign Schaub. As to what he says about Schaubs abilities he is 100% correct. The guy is a stub and going to be a star somewhere. I live in Atlanta and I am very familiar with his ability. He is 6'5 with a very good arm. His best moment as a pro was when he played for Vick in a reg season game last year against the Patriots where he had 300 yards passing and 3 td's. He has been a hot commdity over the last few off seasons with many teams showing interest in him. Just last year the Jets wanted to trade John Abraham for Schaub straight up. So he obviously has value as a NFL QB. This in my mind is what the raiders should do to improve our team to playoff contention ASAP....

Step 1 - Sign Schaub as a RFA

Step 2 - Trade Moss & # 33 pick to
Green Bay for the 1st
rd pick # 16
Step 3 - Use the $$ cleared by dealing moss to sign free agent OT Leonard Davis from AZ.
*****THE DRAFT*****

Rd 1 - Calvin Johnson WR GT

Rd 1 - Marshawn Lynch RB Cal.

Rd 3 - Greg Olson TE Miami

Rd 3 -(From GB in Woodson deal)
Ryan Harris OT Notre Dame

Rd 4 - Doug Free OT Northern Ill.

Rd 5 - Andy Alleman OG Akron

Rd 5 -(From NE in Gabriel Deal)
Manny Ramirez OG Texas Tech

Rd 5 -(From NYJ Hamilton Deal)
Kareem Brown DT Miami

Rd 6 - LaRon McClain FB Alabama

Rd 7 - Antonio Johnson DT Miss St.

I Think if we go this route it would help improve every aspect of our offense and give us a couple of prospect DT's. Please let me know what you think!!!!

I HAVE FAITH!!!!

3RD GENERATION RAIDERNATION

12:33 AM  
Anonymous DownSouthRaidersFan said...

In the top of my post I ment Schaub is a RFA or RESTRICTED free agent

12:36 AM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

Why so many teams have shown such interest in a guy with a lower QB rating than Mike Vick is beyond me.

Vick 75.7 QB Rating

Schaub 69.2 QB Rating

Not only that, but Schaub hasn't even won a single game in the NFL. All he's got is that game where he threw for 298 yds and 3 TDs. At least Mike Vick took the Falcons to the NFC title game against the Eagles. Like I said, go figure, but I'd pass on Schaub. No, I don't want Vick either.

2:35 AM  
Anonymous DownSouthRaidersFan said...

And one of the college QB's HAS proven himself in the NFL??? Didn't think so...All I am saying is that we have a great deal of needs on our team and if you are going to take a risk on a unproven QB we might as well take a chance on the guy that at least DOES have some quality NFL experience. The most important benefit to signing Schaub is that we won't have to spend our draft pick on a QB, we have a great deal of needs and signing Schaub would allow us to address those other areas of opportunity i.e. RB,OT,OG,FB,& WR(If one or both is traded) Many draft experts call Johnson the best player in the draft period. Yes I think J Russell is the better future QB but, would you like to have the better QB, or the better entire team? I personally would love to see Schaub as QB throwing the ball to Porter, Johnson, & curry or handing it off to Marshawn Lynch behind our new o-line rather than Drafting Russell.

9:14 AM  
Blogger RaiderRealist said...

Downsouthraidersfan:

If Schaub's minimal experience ranks him above JaMarcus Russell in your eyes, then I guess Andrew Walter should trump him since he's actually won a game. I don't think Schaub is that big an upgrade, and it smacks of looking for the next Gannon that we've been doing since he retired. We'll just have to agree to disagree about the QB position.

I like the way you've mapped out the rest of the draft. I do wonder about the TE pick though. This is a weak year for TE after last year. How do you rate Olson compared to Zack Miller?

12:54 PM  
Anonymous DownSouthRaidersFan said...

I love Zach Miller. I rate him above Olson in most regards, but having said that I am 100% sure that he will be gone late rd 1 or early rd.2 Olson is a solid TE big guy excellent run blocker and has good hands. I saw Miami play several times this year and he was one of the few bright spots on a terrible Miami offense. As you said this is a weak draft for tight ends these two are the only ones I would even consider taking on day one. As I said earlier I feel we are in a win win situation. Although I am huge supporter of the idea of signing Schaub I will definetly not be broken hearted to see us draft J.Russell. I live in the heart of the SEC and the John Madden video game type numbers he has put up on the tough SEC is nothing short of amazing. I have seen at least a dozen games in which he played and while he does have the best arm on any QB I have seen EVER at any level, people often overlook other aspects of his game. He has tremedous touch and accuracy on every throw not just the deep ball. He is a TRUE pocket passer and looks to throw first second and third then run if need be. Has improved a great deal in a short amount of time which speaks to his high level of commitment and his work ethic,he is a team oriented guy that puts winning and the team above all else, and last but not least he played in the SEC, the toughest confrence in college sports, just ask THE ohio st university how tough the SEC is. =)

1:31 PM  
Anonymous Gary said...

DownSouthRaidersFan said...

I have seen at least a dozen games in which he played and while he does have the best arm on any QB I have seen EVER at any level,


And with this, we have the first pick of the 2007 NFL draft... there is NO WAY Al will resist him... especially after hearing him lament on passing up on Leinert.

This is a done deal IMO.

1:07 PM  

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