Welcome to Oakland, Dominic Rhodes!
Finally, some real movement on offense! Dominic Rhodes has signed a two-year contract with the Oakland Raiders.
I know that we're counting on the draft to help fix some things, but when your offense emits a stink of biblical proportions, as ours did in 2006, you can't count on rookies alone to save the day. The addition of Dominic Rhodes is therefore very heartening. I believe that this will liberate LaMont Jordan by lightening his load. No offense to Crockett and Fargas, but a tandem of Jordan and Rhodes is much more exciting than Jordan & Company, especially when Jordan gets hurt from being overused and we're down to just the Company. Finally, defenses might have to guess a little when it comes to our running game.
Does that mean that Rhodes alone is the answer to our running game? No, or course not. But it's solid a step in the right direction. It's the type of step that was needed last offseason. The blinders are coming off. The talent shortfall is being recognized and scrutinized. The leaky ship is being patched.
I like the addition of Newberry to our line, but he's hardly in his prime. He brings leadership and toughness, which are sorely needed. But Rhodes is our first truly big news of 2007 in terms of offensive talent. Let's keep this train moving! Randy Moss? I say pull the trigger if you can. We need more linemen. We need a tight end. Full steam ahead.
I know that we're counting on the draft to help fix some things, but when your offense emits a stink of biblical proportions, as ours did in 2006, you can't count on rookies alone to save the day. The addition of Dominic Rhodes is therefore very heartening. I believe that this will liberate LaMont Jordan by lightening his load. No offense to Crockett and Fargas, but a tandem of Jordan and Rhodes is much more exciting than Jordan & Company, especially when Jordan gets hurt from being overused and we're down to just the Company. Finally, defenses might have to guess a little when it comes to our running game.
Does that mean that Rhodes alone is the answer to our running game? No, or course not. But it's solid a step in the right direction. It's the type of step that was needed last offseason. The blinders are coming off. The talent shortfall is being recognized and scrutinized. The leaky ship is being patched.
I like the addition of Newberry to our line, but he's hardly in his prime. He brings leadership and toughness, which are sorely needed. But Rhodes is our first truly big news of 2007 in terms of offensive talent. Let's keep this train moving! Randy Moss? I say pull the trigger if you can. We need more linemen. We need a tight end. Full steam ahead.
posted by Raider Take at 10:02 AM
87 Comments:
No Petersen if we signed Rhodes. I don't think we're going after a WR with that first pick, because Davis doesn't like doing that much more than drafting QBs, and we're not sure we're going to move Moss.
That means we're trading down on the 1st pick, or we're going QB. Hunt down footage of both Russell and Quinn on the web. Watch carefully. Then tell me who is the better pick.
I think this move is ok. I feel kinda like I did when we signed LaMont a few years back.
Rhodes is an average back, who's been inured, but even when he's not, he was a sluggish RB for the Colts; which is why Addai took the job away from him. Maybe because he knew he wouldn't be running alot with the Texas Tech offense they run. I think we could've done better. But at least we didn't overpay for him.
Welcome Rhodes, I hope you prove me wrong with how I feel about you.
I've watched a ton of footage of both of these QBs (mainly on YouTube) and I have to go with Quinn.
His development year-to-year is what impressed me most. Watching him flourish under Charlie Weis gives me the impression of his being a sure-thing (if there is such a thing!) He has a quick release, astonishing presence in the pocket and can lead His football smarts are way up there, has his experience with a pro offense and his interviews convey a pro attitude. Even when not being able to win "the big game" in college, his confidence never waned. His pro-day workout was an eye opener for his stamina alone, not to mention his 24 reps at the combine lifting 225. He may not have Russel's arm, but he can make the big throw when called upon.
Russel's an outstanding athelete also, but I don't think he's a Raider. He's got the attitude, alright, but not the leadership abilities that playing his senior year may have granted...Right now, this team needs a Vince Young/SteveMcNair type presence. He strikes me as a Charles Woodson kind of player, who is well aware of his physical gifts, but unintersted in furthering his game through study and his career will suffer as such as he gets older. He'll not lead by example. His arm strength and accuracy are astonishing, along with his Culpepper like escapability, being as big as he is.
I just think that given that this offense needs direction, leadership and focus over bearish strength and athleticism Quinn is the man for that position. Those same reasons might be why Jamarcus is our first pick in the draft if Al Davis has any sway.
I sure would like to know where all of this information about Russell lacking leadership skills is coming from. I have yet to see one article anywhere stating "Russell is not a leader." BTW, at Quinn's Pro Day he refused to do interviews.
damn - there goes peterson. all signs point to picking a QB now don't they? especially if mmoss and pporter really stay.
if so, it should be QUINN for all the reasons horsecollar has stated. quinn makes better sense to me.
As I blogged earlier, Hoping Dominic Rhodes is not another Larry Brown, cashing in on a big SB game.
Even at his best, I don't see this upgrading the running attack that much.
I like it. If nothing else, it should push Jordan. How are Rhodes' hands? Jordan had a ton of catches two years ago, but he dropped every single CLUTCH catch... I don't trust his hands.
JRuss is more of a sure thing now. Quinn reminds me too much of Eli Manning... overrated.
I, too, would like to know where all these negatives about Russell come from. It hasn't come from his teammates nor his coaches. They all gush over him. Not willing to work? You're talking about a guy who drove with his uncle for two days straight, just to get to a QB camp where there were no guarantees he'd even get in.
I heard the reports that he showed up "fat" at the combine. Then I saw the pictures. You could see the cuts in his stomache through the baby fat.
And the film I've seen of both Quinn and Russell - Russell wins. Far more accurate, much stronger arm, and more calm in the pocket. Every step has purpose - no "happy feet."
FB Justin Griffith is scheduled to visit with the Raiders today.
I like the move. Definitely not earth shattering but a nice compliment to Jordan and he will infuse much needed competition. I really like the way we have approached this free agency, even if we did not have much of a choice because of cap constraints.
As for Brady or J-Russ. J-Russ hands down.
Horsecollarjack,
You say Brady has flourished under Weis. It seems to me that there was no improvement this year. Sure he threw for 5 more TD's, but he threw for less yards and had QB rating 12 points less than the previous year. That sure does not sound like "flourishing" to me. I tend to think he regressed. Like I said his rating was 12 points less and he doesn't win when it counts.
Roy
Horesecollarjack: your 11:05 post has some well thought remarks. However, the statement ”....(Russell’s) arm strength and accuracy are astonishing, along with his Culpepper like escapability, being as big as he is...” seem to speak volumes why Russell is the right pick.
We don’t really need a QB that can bench press 225 for 24 reps. Actually, too much muscle can be a detriment to Quinn’s agility and throwing accuracy.
It’s kind of interesting how Russell and Quinn have become polar opposites in terms of conditioning. However, I believe Russell has an air of confidence that transcends his leadership role. Conversely, Quinn has a “big game” monkey on his back that could well carry into his professional career. You can bet the media will play that stigma for all it’s worth. He may end up on a beach somewhere, smokin’ one up with Todd, what’s-his-name.
Raider00: Larry Brown was the first thing that came to my mind too. Why are the Raiders always the next stop for one-hit wonders of the SB. Rocket Ismail, Larry Brown, etc. I hope Rhodes is the real deal!
The Raiders signed a back up TE. Tony Stewart will be joining the Silver & Black from the Bengals. He's only been a starter in 2 TE sets, but has been an outstanding ST player.
I read an article that Cable believes that the Raiders have more talent on the OL than Atlanta. If that is the case, I wouldn't look at that many more signings regarding O-linemen. We might get one or two, like any other year, but we won't be loading up on them. If Cable feels the way he does, it's likely that he believes that the OL was terribly mishandled in '06. After hearing from various members of the OL after Shell was fired, I'd have to believe that he might well be right.
It also might indicate (as I speculated in an earlier post) that the Raiders are planning on a top heavy draft. Not trading higher picks down, but trading lower picks up. As we can all see from this FA period, it may well be cheaper to draft first day picks than to sign FAs who've had some marginal success.
But it appears more and more to me that the Raiders will either pull the trigger on JRuss or Quinn with the first pick.
The Raiders have been busy today. They signed FB Justin Griffith(ATL)to a 3 year deal. $3.8 million, but no word on the guaranteed money yet. We needed a FB, now we've got one.
I like the Griffith move. He's no Lorenzo Neal, but I think he'll be a more effective blocker than Crockett and company have been - probably our best since Ritchie. With his ability to run and catch the occasional pass he should give the offense a bit of versatility as well. Looks like we're proceeding with a plan, rather than just throwing money at guys . . .
Have to agree that it looks like we're locked on to a QB at this point. While I would have rather had Peterson, I guess I need to look at Russell and Quinn now.
I don't believe we should ever draft need with the #1 pick.
Yes, we need a Qb, but God knows we have many needs.
Still, we should always draft the best player available, regardless of position.
Is Jruss the best player in this draft ??
Tough call.
I like the way this off-season has shaped up and progressed.
The signings of Newberry, Rhodes, Griffith, and Stewart were prudent, low cost investments. These are what I call "Brick & Mortar" signings. None of these signing will receive a lot of hoopola but do a few obvious things:
(1) provides flexibility & creates spirited competition
(2) upgrades our current roster/talent (Griffith over Crocket who will probably be cut; Stewart over Anderson)
(3) fills specific needs and roles
(4) dramatically improves our rushing attack and pass protection; Griffith & Stewart should pay immediate dividends on both fronts.
(5) Allows us to shorten our Draft day "to do list" to concentrate on fewer positions (ie. QB, O-Line, DT)
With these recent signings, I can see us going 1 way on our draft choice; JRuss.
With Cable establishing a cohesive, competent O-Line, Kiffin dialing up the right plays, and the necessary skill players/weapons on hand (Jordan/Rhodes/Porter/Curry/Gabriel) the only area with a major, gaping hole is the QB position.
I might be repeating myself from an earlier post a few weeks ago but ... this is the one time in our history where we had the following circumstances happening simultaneously:
(1) a need for a franchise type QB
(2) the #1 pick in the draft
(3) a unique QB prospect/franchise type QB with unbelievable physical tools staring us in the face.
BlandaRocked said...
It also might indicate (as I speculated in an earlier post) that the Raiders are planning on a top heavy draft. Not trading higher picks down, but trading lower picks up.
Thats a GREAT point. Al never trades down, he trades UP...
Interesting stuff. Jruss and whom in the first round?
Best available player, or best available o-lineman?
Gary and Blandarocked-
To implement your “trade lower picks up” plan, I believe we need to accumulate picks, i.e., dump Moss and/or package him with a lower pick(s). That could get us where we really want to be, with another 1st round pick. Otherwise, I think we’ll be giving up too much to get into the first round. Even mid-to-late round picks are too valuable to the Raiders right now. We still have many needs to address.
Honestly, Al needs to take one on the chin. He needs to face facts: he will never get back what he paid for Moss. He needs to be aggressive and just take what he can get... a third round pick if he’s lucky. Once a huge talent with an attitude, Moss’ attitude is now bigger than his talent. He and T.O. should be sent to the land of misfit toys.
Raider00 said ”I don't believe we should ever draft need with the #1 pick. Yes, we need a QB, but God knows we have many needs. Still, we should always draft the best player available, regardless of position.”
Sorry, but with due respect, that makes no sense to me, and hopefully it won’t to Al and Kiff. I’m guessing you mean Calvin Johnson, but what do we do with Johnson, Moss, Porter, Curry, Gabriel, et al? That’s an expensive stable WR’s, particularly since we have nobody to throw them the ball. Dude, there’s no bigger hole on our roster than QB (we’re missing 2). I say take Johnson, but only if he can play QB. Add Johnson to the list of “Raider projects” for position changes.
>>>>
NY RAIDER:
To implement your “trade lower picks up” plan, I believe we need to accumulate picks, i.e., dump Moss and/or package him with a lower pick(s). That could get us where we really want to be, with another 1st round pick. Otherwise, I think we’ll be giving up too much to get into the first round.
>>>>
I think that is what we are talking about... packaging what we get for Moss with our second pick to move up far enough to get Levi Brown.
If the quality of LT's drops off considerable after Levi Brown and Joe Thomas are gone (which appears to be so) we need to trade up.
After QB, LT is our biggest need. Who else do we have? Sims again? No thanx. He's a BACKUP... a very expensive backup. Gallery will be moved back to RT.
NYRaider,
Yes I agree that we need a Qb, but I NEVER suggested taking WR Calvin Johnson with the pick.
If you've been reading this blog, I have been saying for WEEKS that I would be very happy if the Raiders traded down, added picks, and drafted DT Alan Branch.
The reason for this is because I believe in something John Madden said a long time ago.
If you want to win in the NFL, you have to run the ball, and be able to stop the run.
I am not really all that impressed with Jruss, other then the fact that he is a freakish athlete.
But Manute Bol, at 7'7" tall was a freakish athlete too, but far from a good basketball player.
I'm not wild about Quinn either, so why force feed this team a Qb, when there are better players on the board ??
Another player I love in this draft is LT Levi Brown. If the Raiders could somehow get both Branch, & Brown, that would be much better then just getting Jruss.
I am willing to give Walter another season to prove himself, with the new coaches, and an improved cast around him.
I hope I have made my position on the Raiders upcoming draft clear this time.
gary, just a thought.... why not move mcquistan back to HIS natural position at L tackle?
folks, we can speculate (and as fans, that's all it will ever be) all we want, look at you tube all we want but the bottom line is what lane kiffin feels would be best for this team and his offense. you know what? i really hope THIS coach is the real deal. i think he will be from all indications, as long as davis keeps his paws off. we lost a year or more of development because of al davis' crappy decisions. norv turner????? art shell?????? bad draft picks from the gruden trade?????
the draft is not for several weeks. too much waiting. at this point, i really don't care who they get anymore. as long as the guy makes an IMMEDIATE impact and actually helps point this team in the right direction, and the front office makes sensible decisions with the draft and free agency.
Bama7
I have mixed emotions so far with Kiffen. I'm wondering if he lacks the force of character to totally stand up to Al. Why re-sign Whitted? Why? And as other posts here mention, why do we always go after one hit wonder superbowl stars. Rhodes is okay, but certainly nothing to get excited about. Runners in Indy do well because defenses are scared to death of Peyton and the air game. Remember Edgerrin James... everything thought the running game was leaving Indy... ha... Peyton made the running game. I liked Travis Henry. He'll be tough at Denver. Did Al dictate RHodes and Whitted being signed? Hope not.
As for Newberry, it all comes down to him holding up right? And that doesn't look too good. I like the FB signing simply because it's been so long since we've had a real FB.
I think this is the perfect draft to get a RB in the later rounds... the kid from Arizona (Henry?), Darby from Alabama... Ware from Georgia... the Wolf kid from up north that broke all the records... LSU's Justin Vincent... Nebraska's Brandon Jackson... Auburn's Kenny Irons. A lot of quality at RB this year. I would have like to have seen us grab one of these kids.
Or... there are two DE's coming out of Georgia that could be had in the 2nd or higher and they are very good--- Quentin Moses & Charles Johnson. These two are just like Burgess.
Compare this with Russell and Quinn: Russell has been playing the last three years against the best defenses in the country, the most speed. Back before the draft last year I told everyone on this board that Demeco Ryans of Alabama was the best Linebacker available... much better than the white kid from OSU that went to the packers. Well, Demeco was defensive rookie of the year.
Russell played against this stud for two years, as well as Florida's lightening fast defense, Auburn's defense, Georgia (with the two DE's mentioned above)... just to mention a few better than average defenses.
Quinn hasn't faced that kind of speed... until the sugar bowl (LSU 41-14). Same for Troy Smith whom you'd thought was undamnstoppable to hear the press... until the championship game.
Russell is very rare.
By trading Moss with the 2nd round pick, we open an immediate need at WR again; on top of our other voids.
If that were to happen, I say JRuss first, and then Dwayne Jarret, Limas Sweed, or Ted Ginn Jr. Those 3 guys are going to impact on Kiff's offense.
With that said, I do believe that LT is a huge void. Jordan Black (6'5", 310 lbs) of KC is available. Anthony Clement (6'8", 320 lbs) is also available, played last season with the Jets; and we could always resign Chad Slaughter (6'8", 340 lbs). I believe we need a veteran at this position, not another rookie.
Alright.....the Raider coaching staff seems to finally be filled and they're making some interesting F A moves... a RB, FB, 2 TE's.....now trade Moss and clear the way for Calvin Johnson.
BR - I agree about your point about trading up vice down. Give me 7 picks of higher value to net 4 quality, impact draftees over 10+ picks that nets 2-3 quality, impact draftees any day, and twice on Sunday. If this is achieved by dumping Moss for a 3rd round pick, so be it. Any way to accumulate multiple 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks should be seriously considered.
Gary - I wholeheartedly agree with your suggestion to find a way to acquire Levi Brown. We need to develop quality depth on our O-line and have serious competition for starting roles this season.
Raider 00 - With all due respect, your comparison of Manute Bol and JRuss is laughable. Manute Bol was an unpolished basketball player who didn't receive proper coaching until he came to America. He didn't play "organized" basketball until he was in his late teens. JRuss is a polished QB who has been playing organized football as a QB since the age of 6 and received 15 years of progressively more sophisticated coaching at each level. Yes, Bol was "freakishly" tall but that is about the extent of his physical talents. JRuss is a big, strong, mobile ATHLETE with the strongest arm in the history of football.
Scorpio - McNasty is a possibility at LT. It is very difficult to project our O-Linemen's ability and best fit based on last year. Who knows? I would hope that he is considered during camp as a potential LT considering that is the position he excelled at in college.
Raider Nate 75: I don't share your view that there would a serious void at WR if Moss is traded. I believe that Porter, Curry, and Gabriel would form the nucleus of 3 solid, phyiscal, versatile WRs who would get the majority of snaps. Both Morant and Buchanon would be young, talented WRs worth developing. In my book, Madsen would be the wild card. He is a true WR not a TE. Even last year while disguised as a TE, for all practical purposes he was used as a BIG slot WR. He is a terrific athlete. These 6 WRs, with the hope that Whitted doesn't make the final 53 man roster, would be a good WR depth chart.
At this point I don't think we'll ever get Moss' full potential. With his attitude and what seems to be the gradual breakdown of his physical prowess, I'd say we have a hole at WR with him still on the team. As bad as last season was, if he's truly our #1 WR how did Curry out play him while being involved in fewer plays? Get what you can for him now, accept that we didn't get what we thought we would out of him, and move on. Forget about saving face, he's costing us cap space and games with his lack of effort.
Besides, if we do get a QB with the first pick, I want as few distractions and problems for him to face as possible.
It's amazing to me that the players take all the heat for the lousy coaching last year and that... that damage is complteley irrepairable by a new coaching regime. I guess most of you want a whole new team.
Talk about throwing out the baby with the bath water.
heartland raider fan-
Please remind me how we got Moss in the first place. He was ONCE one of the best WRs in the game, but even back then he didn't run routes worth squat.
That "baby" is now 30 years old, and has lost a step. You mean to tell me that he's going to suddenly learn a new trick and morph into Jerry Rice? Like I said, its time to stop looking at his potential and look at the reality of his production. That's how teams get into the mess we're in: counting on guys with big names who no longer have big game.
BTW, did Art Shell tell coach Moss to drop all those passes?
BR, & Calico,
Trading up, and losing picks, is the worst thing that can happen to this team.
The Raiders won 2 thin games last yr, and something like 14 games the last three seasons.
We cannot win in the division, or on the road.
This team needs more picks, not less.
Trading up does not always work.
We traded up because we HAD to have Buchanon.
We traded up because we HAD to have Dudley.
We traded up because we HAD to have Russell.
We traded up for Sam Williams.
On and on, give us back the picks.
It was not smart, it is not smart, especially for a team that needs help at numerous positions.
Calico,
I obviously was not comparing Bol to Jruss beyond the fact that they are both freakish athletes.
I was trying to say that the tallest player is not always the best center in basketball.
The hardest thrower is not always the best pitcher in baseball.
the fastest skater is not always the best goal scorer in hockey.
Yes, I know Jruss has the biggest ass and best arm in Qb history.
So What ?
I guess you would have dismissed guys like Joe Montana, and Fran Tarkenton, because of their small size.
Stabler's arm wouldn't have been good enough.
Who's the best Qb in football today ? Oh yeah, it's that 6th rounder Tom Brady, but how can it be, he's no bigger then Joe Namath was ??
Come to think of it, Namath was pretty good to, and he wasn't even a fat slob. Amazing.
And another thing...this team has sucked for FOUR years now, so don't blame everything on Shell. At what point do the players bear any responsibility for this debacle?
Raiderrealist-
From where I'm sitting, we've been out-coached AND out-played for the past four years. The wholesale coaching changes are a step in the right direction, but player personnel changes take more time due to supply and demand as well as salary cap constraints.
You make an excellent point, though, and worth repeating: "I'd say we have a hole at WR with (Moss) still on the team."
I agree with posters who say we should not place emphasis on adding a WR, freak player or not. We have too many holes to fill, and WR is not one of them. In terms of WR, and as Raiderrealist aplty points out, our goal should be addtion by subtraction. WE MUST DUMP MOSS!
Raider 00 - The problem does not lie in the act of trading up (or down)...in the examples you gave the problem was in the selection of the player. Whether you trade up, down, or stay pat the key will always be in the evaluation and selection of the player.
You missed my point about the Bol/JRuss comparison. Bol's freakish trait was his height and nothing more. JRuss' freakish physical abilities is not only his arm strength but his size, strength, mobility AND overall athletic abilities including being able to have an uncanny touch on all of the throws in the playbook.
Bottom Line: The Raiders have an obvious need to draft a QB. Who is a better prospect than JRuss? I would be interested in hearing about these other prospects. The fact that JRuss was very successful in the toughest, best conference in college football should not be discounted.
The "obvious need" to draft a QB is in the hearts of the fans.
It's like they just got their allowance and can't wait to get to the store to blow it. Practicality means nothing!
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JaMarcus Russell seems to be the obvious pick (for a lot of us), but the one thing that perhaps separates this draft from previous drafts is the "Kiff factor." Lane Kiffin is touted as a top recruiter and scout of college talent, having just served in that capacity for one of the top programs in the country.
I expect Kiffin has intimate knowledge of numerous unsung players that could end up being gems at bargain prices (picks). With the plethora of holes to fill, the philosophy of trading down for more picks will likely give us the best draft value. Conversely, maybe Kiff has a "must-have" player in mind which requires us to trade up.
Bottom line is that I feel really good going into the draft with Kiffin at the controls.... errr, hoping he is in fact at the controls!
Bama7
Hey NY Raider--- Share your concern about Kiffen "hopefully" being in charge. Some decent moves so far but I am EXTREMELY distrubed to read that Alvis Whitted was re-signed... is that true? If he was then that has to be Al &^%$#%&. Here we go again! Why even consider Whitted? Try anyone else! What about Buchanon or any of the other young WR's?
The other thing that bothers me is Donnie Edwards was ONCE again available and yet Al has no football sense to see that this guy, as an extremely talented veteran, could have been a huge plus for Thomas Howard and Morrison.
Instead Al prefers to watch sam "never in on the play" williams pile up no stats (next to Tyler "no factor" Brayton) Unfortunately now we have another season of dealing with Edwards on an opposing AFC team (Chiefs).
Does this bother anyone else on this blog?
If we take Calvin Johnson then I will be convinced that Kiffen is not influencing much in the way of personnel. I like Calvin Johnson but after watching Georgia's mediocre cornerbacks shut him down this year in the big tech-dawg rivalry I'm not as impressed as everyone else with the guy (dawgs won with defense and Johnson was no factor).
Screw speed.. give me blue collar football players like Donnie Edwards any day.
And Calico, you're right on it as are many others... Jemarcus has done very well in the toughest conference. Please take Russell!
At the very least we'd have a true football player.
Bama7,
I'm with you 100%. This has been one of the most frustrating things about being a Raiders fan these past 20 yrs or so.
The Raiders are either unable, or unwillig to rid themselves of the deadwood that rots on their roster.
Alvis Whitted gets treated with the same respect, & loyalty as Biletnikoff, Brown, or Branch, even though he hasn't earned it.
And that's really the problem isn't it ?
You don't have to earn a roster spot on the Raiders anymore.
You can cry, pout, quit, drop passes (Anderson), fumble away, (Williams), or just be a terrible player, (Brayton, Gibson).
It doesn't matter, you have a roster spot as long as you want.
It makes no sense !!!!!!!
I
>>>>
Trading up does not always work.
We traded up because we HAD to have Buchanon.
We traded up because we HAD to have Dudley.
We traded up because we HAD to have Russell.
We traded up for Sam Williams.
On and on, give us back the picks.
>>>>
Conversely, what did we get when we accumulated picks from the Gruden trade? Is there even one player still on the team?
I guess the only conclusion is that its ALWAYS a crap shoot... common sense seems to indicate the odds get better the higher a player is drafted.
Bama7-
Signing Alvis Whitted is truly a mystery, however, I wouldn't expect him to crack the starting lineup this year... he might not even make the roster. I think it was just an affordable insurance policy, nothing more.... I hope!
One more point about the ill advised re-signing of Whitted ...
The Raiders need to carry only 6 WRs on the final 53 man roster. The only exception to that would be if you have a supreme KR/PR/WR who earned the additional roster spot with outstanding special teams contributions. Clearly Whitted in not such a player.
The final 6 WRs should be Porter, Curry, Gabriel, Morant, Madsen, and Buchanon.
Moss, Whitted, and Francis have no business being on the final 53 man roster.
News Flash! Raiders.com reports Nnamdi Asomugha receives Commitment to Excellence Award .... Blah, Blah, Blah. That’s great! Now, it’s time to sign him to a long-term contract, while we can still afford him.
This year's award is akin to when Woody (on Cheers) asked Rebecca for a raise and she gave him a title instead. A player that steps up the way Nnamdi did deserves more than a pat on the back.
Raider00 said, "Alvis Whitted gets treated with the same respect, & loyalty as Biletnikoff, Brown, or Branch, even though he hasn't earned it."
I disagree, Whitted is getting the same "respect" that James Jett received. It was all from Al Davis. Whereas Blitnekoff, Brown, Branch, etc; all received the respect from Al, their coaches, other players, and the fans.
Whitted is often cited as the hardest worker on the team...that's why he'll be in camp, he sets an example the Raiders want set, and that's why he's earned the front office's respect, and hsi money. Remains to be seen if he'll be on the final roster
I don't know that the resigning of Whitted was good or bad. Whitted is not James Jett, because he works much harder. While I certainly agree that Whitted is not a starter, he's a very good deep threat and has been used effectively as such prior to Art Shell. He also has the ability to return kick offs in a pinch.
There is no question that Whitted is a journeyman player, but every team needs them. We're not ever going to have 6 HOF WRs on a single team. Generally you're talking about two starters (one standout and one star), a couple of slot receivers and one or two situational receivers. Whitted is no star, be has the temprement and the ability to be an excellent roll player.
It's not only the notion of Alvis Whitted coming back, but the lack of any real blame, at least so far, being placed on the players for last seasons debacle.
Certain players, including Whitted, are immune from any and all judgement. They have risen above the team, and it's goal of winning.
Remember, I was responding to Bama7' complaint as to why the Raiders ignored LB Donnie Edwards, in favor of keeping ol' favorite Sam "I am lost again" Williams.
It just seems that the entire concept of UPGRADING is lost on the Raiders, especially when it concerns one of the handful of players, who remaine safe from the waiver axe, NO MATTER what they do, or how bad they perform, season, after season, after season, after...
Bama7
I think what Raider00 and I are trying to say is that the coaching last year was abysmal, but there are a few players that simply have no business still being on our roster much less starting... they WERE part of the reason we were 2-14, yet it is being ignored. They seem to be Al's pets. Does Al just long so strongly to be accepted by the players that he ignores their flaws to a fault?
Sam Williams and Tyler Brayton have had ample time to at least show some flash or a glimpse of being tough, mean football players and it simply hasn't happened. Keeping this deadwood (to paraphrase Raider00) on the roster is the prime reason we haven't won in the AFC west in quite awhile.
There have been a host of LB's that could be grabbed cheap that could easily top William's production. Same for Brayton. And while I understand some of you speaking of Whitted as a decent back-up WR, I just am so sour to all of these three guys having been allowed to start that I want them gone ASAP just to prove to me that Kiffen, and not Al, is in charge.
what bothers me is that whitted (and francis for that matter) would take up VALUABLE roster space for young prospects like buchanon or madsen.
and yes, williams has had his chances as well. gibson?????
so even though they resigned him, hopefully these type of players won't make the final roster.
Despite recent FA signings, I’d like to see the Raiders still make a priority of drafting a RB. RB is a position that has been weak for too long. It’s time to catch up the rest of the AFC West... if that’s possible.
It’s tough for me to get too excited about Jordan & Rhodes as our 1-2 punch (both have similar skills), and Fargus is all heart but lacks instinct and is simply not durable enough. Adding a FB was the only solid backfield move we made.
We will need O-line help, but I expect Tom Cable’s recent assertion about our O-line is not BS. They’re mostly young and athletic and will probably perform better in zone blocking than man-to-man.
nyraider said;
RB is a position that has been weak for too long. It’s time to catch up the rest of the AFC West... if that’s possible.
Where has the rest of the AFC West gone with their flashy RB's for too long? Oh Yeah... one and out in the Playoffs (denver KC) sandy eggo finally made it over the one and out hump and choked big time. But in the end, they were all home to see the Superbowl. I want the Raiders in the Superbowl ...not leading the leaugue in passing and /or rushing.
Jordan, Rhodes and Fargas would be plenty in the right scheme with an O-line that is capable of providing running lanes.
The Raiders won a Superbowl with VanEagan and King in the backfield.
Ball control to keep the other offense off the field and to rest the "real key" to the Raiders return to Glory the Defense. Let History repeat itself once more, with....a physical, punishing, and intimidating Defense, and an Offense that was capable of winning ugly.
Give me a running game that can consistently produce... 3 yards and a cloud of dust,with the ocasional break out run for long yardage, and a passing game that has... a 3rd down possession reciever who is fearless , always gets open, and rarely drops a pass and a deep threat reciever to stretch the defenses and can pull in the one or two long balls a game that break the will of the opposing defenses. The Raiders already have the kicking game.
History can and does repeat itself.
tomorrow is LSU's Pro Day. My crystal ball says JaMarcus comes in at a trim 255 and lights it up
Heartland Raider fan-
Yeah, despite the obvious talent at RB for other AFC West teams, none has been to the SB lately. You make it sound like having a great RB is a problem.
History might repeat itself, but not without some dynamic. Just ask Al Davis and Art Shell.
Here's your backfield:
Jordan - overrated and self-admittedly overpaid (this is the guy that left a lateral on the field against the whiners in '06 that went for a TD and dropped passes for living in '05).
Rhodes - overrated (too similar in style and skill set to Jordan to provide needed dynamic for a 1-2 punch - a Superbowl flash in the pan).
Fargus - not rated (a backup at best)
It's safe to say, you don't have to worry about leading the league in rushing. Even if we're set with this group, we need a solid RB short-term.
I'm curious as to why some people are Raider fans?
I'm 54 years old and have the luxury of having lived thru and experienced almost every bit of Glory and exploits of the Raiders.
The Raiders have always been renegades in achieving their success and it's that free spirit that endears them to me.
The Raiders with few exception were never marquee stars in the NFL. The Raiders' reputation was notorious not household.
Therefore I don't understand fans that feel we need a glamourous running back, or league leading passer to be successful.
The Raiders have always done it their own way, and not by following the status quo or mimicking the success of others.
If just winning isn't enough....I would suggest jumping ship, and hopping on the bandwagon of another team with a consistantly winning record, a star running back, or fancy passing game.
>>>
We will need O-line help, but I expect Tom Cable’s recent assertion about our O-line is not BS. They’re mostly young and athletic and will probably perform better in zone blocking than man-to-man.
>>>>
I think zone blocking is what Gallery needs. I don't think he's the sharpest tool in the shed, and I have watched him too many times simply disengage or not even bother to block someone right in front of him... they prolly weren't HIS MAN.
So he'd rather stand there and not block anyone than block someone that isn't his man? I've seen it at least a dozen times.. it's maddening.
>>>
It's safe to say, you don't have to worry about leading the league in rushing. Even if we're set with this group, we need a solid RB short-term.
>>>>
It might help if the entire opposing team, everyone in the stands, everyone watching on teevee, AND drunks lying in a gutter that have never seen a football game before KNOWS WHEN THE RAIDERS ARE RUNNING THE BALL!
We endured the perfect storm last year... it's amazing we won two games.
Moss on the move? Check out this article from the land of cheeseheads:
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=576312
Heartland Raider fan-
No offense intended in my previous post, and there’s certainly no need to question my loyalty to the Raiders. After all, it’s March (college basketball season). There are only diehard Raiders here... yourself included.
heartland, perhaps if the raiders DIDN'T do it their (actually al's) way, perhaps we wouldn'be a laughing stock of an organization lately. ok. let me stop right here before i get started on yet another al rant....
ANYWAY, a great stud of a RB can take pressure off a QB. look what a good running game did for the colts. if we had a tomlinson, or a larry johnson type of back, and a 1/2way decent line maybe walter's confidence wouldn't have been so bad. man, i'm shaky about that rhodes signing too but jordan definitely needs help. he is NOT the answer. peterson was but since rhodes is here now there goes that idea.
Bama7
Not crazy about Rhodes or Jordan either, but for some reason together I like them. I guess I feel they might develop a healthy competition and actually make us sit up and take notice. I hope we don't land Carr. He's had an opportunity to show something and he simply hasn't.
Here's one that's out there... Anyone think we could swindle Chicago by trading Moss for disgruntled pro bowl LB Briggs? Think about it... The AFC North fears Randy Moss. His stock is highest there... low everhwere else thanks to our Lamonica ball. If we could get a quality player for him like Briggs it'd be great to move Moss.
Bama 7 - At 1st glance the Briggs for Moss trade excites & intrigues me. Briggs as the SLB would raise oru run D to another level.
However, after careful consideration, I don't it would be a prudent move.
I hate to be the "cap pessimist" but all the reports I've seen indicate that we have spent all of our available cap room. We need to start massaging our cap to free up ample room for our 1st round pick, the additional draft picks, plus a vet QB. Briggs would eat up the the majority of cap space in the Moss trade. You have to conservatively estimate that Briggs is looking for $7M per year, 4-5 years. Personally, I would prefer a 2nd round draft pick and KGB from the Pack. KGB would give us another pass rush presence at DE and the 2nd round pick could be used with our #33 pick to move up into the mid 1st round.
Regarding Rhodes and Jordan, don't forget that a solid lead blocking FB is now in the mix. Don't underestimate that.
Calico, I respectfully disagree with your Briggs for Moss cap analysis. We currently have the cap room to sign our #1 pick. Moss (more than 9 mil) for Briggs (about 7 mil) would free up 2 more mil under the cap.
However, after offering some defense for the resigning of Whitted, I'd like to offer the same in regards to S. Williams and Bryton. Bryton has shown us something - in his rookie year when we played as a DE. We were all impressed with this intensity and pure desire to get to the QB. Then he was moved to LB for a couple of years against his will. 2006 was his first year back at his natural position. I'm willing to see (so long as we have other options) to see if he comes back to his natural position in full.
As for S. Williams - again his natural position is DE. There has been some talk that he is one of the position changes in the works (back to DE). However, he's suffered from the injury bug. Last season marked his only continuous playing time. He's always looked good at the beginning of the season or in pre season. I think Sam's place may be as a situational pass rusher, and I think he could be very good at that.
The key to winning for this team is going to be roll players, not stars. It's going to be a coaching staff that recognizes the proper rolls for the players. It's going to be the OC who designs the plays which best take advantage of the rolls.
Again, regarding Jordan. Jordan was at his best when competing within the organization. Running behind Martin. The addition of Rhodes could well make him perk up. Also, I suspect that Fargas will show continued developement, and be better this year than last. In fact, I think Fargas just might be the best they have, but he still needs to put the injury history behind him.
BR - Per Jerry McDonald's blog "It's getting snug under the salary cap. I don't have the up-date figures but the Raiders will have some bookkeeping to do if they want to add more players.
They still have to account for the No. 1 pick in the draft, assuming they don't trade it away, and a veteran quarterback to give Andrew Walter some company in quarterback meetings."
The difference between the added salary of Briggs and cap reduction of Moss is negligible at best. If Moss is traded it is a $7.8M cap saving not $9M. This takes into account his initial signing bonus.
I don't share your views on Whitted, S.Williams, and Brayton.
Whitted: 1 dimensional, journeyman WR. 7th WR on depth chart that requires only 6 WRs. I will be pissed if Whitted takes away a roster spot for Buchanon.
S. Williams: Is the guy in the witness protection program? Has no nose for the football. As SLB was the weak link in our run defense. Robert Thomas might not be a long term solution but is an upgrade over S.Williams.
Brayton: Let's stop making excuses for Brayton. Enough is enough. The guy is weak against the run and has no pass rushing prowess. Besides having a high motor, he is a complete bust. Huntley showed more in 2 games than Brayton did in 16. Enough said.
Finally, you wrote "In fact, I think Fargas just might be the best they have," Excuse me? You are joking right? Fargas has heart, runs hard and is at best a back-up/Special teams contributor. The problem with Fargas is that he has no vision or instincts. More times than not he runs right into his blocker or tackler.
JaMarcus ran a 4.83 today and weighed in at....275.....just kidding,he tipped the scales at a slim 256. They say he threw the shit out of it also [direct quote]
i know i said i won't mention this again but as far as the raider draft is concerned.....
it's already been mentioned about russell's lack of work ethic coming to the combine out of shape. so IF davis does draft russell, and unfortunately it sure as heck looks more and more like that'll be the case, HOPEFULLY his contract will include yearly incentive clauses for performance and weight. this will protect the team and fans (yes fans - WE pay his salary!) if jabba-the-russell shows up to camp overweight.
Saw an interesting feature tonight on Jruss and his poor footwork.
This kid is slow setting up in the pocket, has a super slow throwing motion, and yes, his footwork, needs lots of improvement.
I know what his supporters will say, he's only 21 yrs old, he'll get better.
But I wonder just how coachable he will be once he deposits all that money in his bank ?
I think some got fixated watching the sugar bowl hilights over, and over, seeing Jruss lighting up the stand still ND defense.
There is another side to this coin, and make no mistake, this is a very raw, unpolished QB we have here.
Raider 00 - What was the feature that you saw tonight on JRuss? I was just wondering since from the film I have seen and the scouting reports I have read, JRuss is agile, sets up well in the pocket, and has a VERY quick release.
Here is just one excerpt scouting report from NFL Draft Countdown:
"Has truly rare size and bulk for the position...Might have the strongest arm in all of football (college or pro) and can make all the throws...An outstanding natural athlete...Very powerful and a load to bring down...He is mobile enough to avoid pressure and can hurt defenses with his feet...Does a superb job of keeping his eyes downfield...Has a very quick release...Can throw well on the run...A leader with good poise and composure...Got better every season and is still improving."
Is he flawless and completely polished? Of course not. The more important question to ask is whether or not he has the physical tools and is coachable in order to be sharpened up & fine-tuned. Absolutely.
After a dazzling pro-day, NFL Network analyst said JRuss has the best arm of ANY prospect he has ever seen.
You write "There is another side to this coin, and make no mistake, this is a very raw, unpolished QB we have here." 25-4 as a starter in the toughest conference in all of college football, 28 TDs to 8 Ints, and you want to characterize him as being very raw? His athleticism, instincts, poise, and passing prowess alone makes him anything but "raw". What better training ground could a QB prospect receive than facing the toughest defenses in the country the past 2 years? Unpolished...ok. Very raw...sorry but you were probably saying the same thing about Vince Young whose was leaps and bounds behind JRuss in terms of his passing prowess.
Here's the video of JRuss' pro-day:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft07/news/story?id=2798856&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines
Todd McShay who has been covering the draft for ESPN for 10 years said that JRuss' pro-day was the best he has ever seen for a QB prospect. Here is a quote from McShay on JRuss' pro-day:
"His passing session was the most impressive of all the pro days I've been to," McShay said. "His footwork for such a big quarterback was surprising. He was nimble in his dropbacks and when he's rolling out and throwing on the run. We all knew coming in that his arm strength is extraordinary. The ball just explodes out of his hands. His 73rd, 74th and 75th throws, he was flicking the ball 60 yards with his wrist and putting it right on the numbers."
For all the JRuss non-believers, you are entitled to knit pick and have your doubts.
I have come to the realization as a fan of the Raiders who are starving for a franchise type QB, that JRuss as a QB prospect could be a dream come true.
Calico,
The show I watched was the 3/14 broadcast of NFL tonight, on ESPN.
They showed a series of clips where Jruss would get his feet tangled as he went to throw the ball, and also showed him constantly throwing off the back foot leading to over, and under throws.
I know ESPN can be unfair at times, and sets out to do hatchet jobs on anything that is, or might be, associated with the Raiders, but I felt this feature was fair.
Bottomline, I couldn't deny what I was seeing with my own eyes.
Jruss has the powerful arm, no doubt, but it takes more than a strong arm(George, Schroeder, Collins, to name a few), to make it big as a pro QB.
"Coach Lane Kiffin confirmed Wednesday on the NFL Network that the Raiders will have JaMarcus Russell in for a visit sometime soon.
Kiffin described what he's seen from Russell so far as "professional." By all accounts, Russell impressed at Wednesday's Pro Day despite running a less-than-impressive 4.83 forty. Raiders officials will now travel to Georgia Tech to meet with wide receiver Calvin Johnson. Mar. 14 - 7:09 pm et "
I just don't know about this kid. There is an up side and a down side anytime you draft a player. Let's hope Kiffin can shine on draft day.
No offense Raider 00, but comparing JRuss to George, Collins, and Shroeder is flat out ridiculous and frankly, a very lazy, uneducated observation.
JRuss is 10x more athletic, mobile, agile than the 3 above mentioned QBs. The only real similarity these QBs share is strong arms.
I would argue that some of the traits that a QB needs to possess to be successful are arm strength, touch, accuracy, poise, leadership abilities, mobility, overall athleticism, pocket awareness, instinct, and agility. In my opinion, JRuss' coaches, and many football analysts, JRuss has all of these traits in spades. We shall see ...
Another quote from McShay about the 4.83 time.
"That's a pretty good time," said Todd McShay, senior draft analyst for ESPN's Scouts Inc. "Compare that to [Ohio State's] Troy Smith, who's 6 feet tall and 220 pounds and ran a 4.77."
He's no Mick Vick in the speed dept., but that fast enough for a QB. Remember, Leinert didn't even run. It has to be a no brainer at this point. Schefter, over at NFL Network is saying the Raiders will pick JRuss #1 unless they are blown away with a trade offer. Just another month and a half to wait.
Raider00 said,
"Saw an interesting feature tonight on Jruss and his poor footwork.
This kid is slow setting up in the pocket, has a super slow throwing motion, and yes, his footwork, needs lots of improvement."
There is nobody reporting that about JRuss after his workout yesterday. In fact, NFL.com is saying that he had problems with his footwork in his first year as QB at LSU, but has improved on that the last 2 years.
Let's compare the negatives (other than his weight) that NFL.com gives, with the positives that they give.
The first negative-"Lacks the change-of-direction agility to make the initial tackler miss" compared with one of the first positive of "Has the lower-body power to break tackles." Meaning what he lacks with agility, is replaced with strength.
The only real negative I read, in comparison with the positives is this one. With the positive side of his arm strength, the negative is "sometimes gets too confident in his arm strength and will try to force the ball into tight spots." That is true of all young QB's.
The next negative, "Is not a true threat to run with the ball … Appears a little stiff in his hips when having to escape pocket pressure for too long" Compared with the positive statement of, "Shows good overall foot quickness and agility to step out of the pocket and buy time." Meaning he is not looking to run at the first sign of pressure, but has great pocket awareness, and the ability to buy some more time.
The next negative, "Can hold the ball too long, waiting for his targets to get open, increasing the chance for a sack or fumble." Compared with the positive of, "Puts good velocity on his throws firing from the outside hashes and has a fluid release, whether throwing from the left or right side." Meaning that even though he holds the ball sometimes a little too long, he can zip it out to a receiver with speed and accuracy. Also, what they don't tell you, is his hand size of 9 1/2 inches, he grips the ball pretty well, and is almost nearly impossible to knock it out of his hands.
That is the negatives, but here are the rest of his positives, as given by NFL.com:
"Has good balance dropping back and generally moves under control, showing a nice rhythm while planting his feet through his delivery … When he sits back and scans the field, he can pick apart a zone … Makes the right decisions on long throws, thanks in part to his raw power, but needs to vary the speed on his short throws, as he has a tendency to put too much zip on some throws … His arm strength and fluid mechanics allow him get the ball out quickly once he sets his feet … Shows no wasted motion and is consistently in good position to deliver the ball on time … Has the strongest arm in football, at any level … Effective throwing on the move and has the ability to consistently place the ball on a receiver's outside shoulder"
A side note, they said he puts too much zip on the ball on short patterns, stands in the pocket too long, etc. They said the same with the likes of Brett Favre, Dan Marino, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, a younger Drew Bledsoe, Troy Aikman, and John Elway.
I think your assessment of him being slow in his throwing motion, and needs footwork is bogus. I say your assessment, because nobody is reporting that on Russell.
Raider00 also said,
"They showed a series of clips where Jruss would get his feet tangled as he went to throw the ball, and also showed him constantly throwing off the back foot leading to over, and under throws."
That was early in his career, they also showed how he has improved on that in the past 2 season with LSU, which is why he has consistently improved as QB there. Which also shows he is coachable. You're full of crap.
Calico,
It's true that Jruss is a better athlete than George, Schroeder, or Collins. I would point out, however, that those players did not have any weight issues to deal with looking down the road.
I would also say that the buzz when Jeff George was going to be the #1 pick, is very equal to what we are seeing now with Jruss.
Yes they are different type Qb's, but George was considered a "can't miss" prospect, with one of the greatest throwing arm's ever.
We all know how that turned out.
Raidernate 75,
Many said I was "Full of Crap", last year, when I wanted the Raiders to draft either Leinart, or Cutler. 90% of bloggers here gave me hell, and wanted Hawk, or Huff instead.
Now, I am catching hell over my stand against drafting Jruss. That's ok, I can take it. I only want what's best for the Raiders, as I'm sure everyone who blogs here does.
Hey, maybe Jruss will be like Charles Barkley, another big, flabby guy who went on to have a hall of fame career.
I’m not sure why such a big deal is being made in the media and here about JR’s weight. This is a young guy who will be put through diet and exercise programs as part of normal work cycles (on whatever team lands him). Besides, he dropped 9 pounds in about a month to prepare for his pro day. Way too much emphasis.... and perhaps just an excuse.
Raider00: Last year we all thought Walter was the real deal, and drafting one of the top QB prospects at that time would have hindered his success. In hindsight, it would have given us the depth at QB that we obviously need now, but I don’t think anyone regrets drafting Huff.... maybe we just regret wasting his talents at SS instead of utilizing them at FS.
The Moss for Rodgers rumor is really heating up. This story came from the Boston Herald and was just posted on RaiderNews.com.
http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/view.bg?articleid=188664
Inasmuch as it's still a rumor, terms of the deal seem well articulated and very realistic.
Report: Packers on verge of trading Rodgers, acquiring Moss
Gannett Wisconsin Newspapers
The Green Bay Packers are close to completing a trade that would send backup quarterback Aaron Rodgers and a draft pick to the Oakland Raiders for receiver Randy Moss, another player and a conditional draft pick, the Boston Herald reported today, quoting a source in Wisconsin.
Ted Thompson, the Packers general manager, was said to be traveling and unavailable for comment at mid-morning.
Moss has agreed to restructure his contract, which is to pay him $20 million in base salary over the next two years, the source told the Herald's Michael Felger.
The trade, which reportedly could be announced as soon as Friday, is structured this way, the source told the Herald:
The Packers would get Moss, tight end Courtney Anderson and a conditional pick in the 2009 draft that would be based on how well Rodgers plays for the Raiders in 2007 and 2008.
The Raiders would get Rodgers and a seventh-round pick in 2008.
Filed by the Green Bay Press-Gazette.
IF those reports are accurate, could someone please explain to my ignorant ass how the signing of Rodgers will affect the draft? I would venture that it seals the deal for a trade-down or C Johnson, but what do I know?
Aaron Rodgers? That seems like a strange trade to me. It would all but assure that the Raiders don't take a QB in the draft since it would leave them with three unproven QBs and zero veterans. It might also signal that they plan on taking Calvin Russell with the #1 pick or possible trade down.
Whoops. Calvin Johnson, that is.
Packernews.com is reporting the following:
Ted Thompson, the Green Bay Packers’ general manager, this afternoon dismissed a report that a trade to acquire receiver Randy Moss from the Oakland Raiders was imminent, saying it was nothing more than “wild speculation.”
There are a couple of reasons why the Raiders might be interested in Rogers. Above all he's a local boy, and the Raiders have had good success signing local prospects.
However, I don't believe the Raiders would view Rogers as a sure bet to be a franchise QB, and a franchise QB is what is required. I also don't believe that the Raiders would go into the season with a questionmark over all three QBs.
Therefore, since there is no franchise QB in free agency, I think the Raiders are more interested in whatever draft pick they can wrestle away from GB. The Boston report said that if the Raiders give up Moss, Anderson, and a conditional 2009 draft pick, from the Pack they'd get Rogers and a 7th round '08 pick - well, that is equal to trading Moss "for a ham sandwich."
I think that for the Raiders to pull the trigger on a deal, they'd be looking for a 2008 conditional 2nd round pick (depending on Moss' performance). Therefore, I'm believing the reports that say the two sides are not close - and that Rogers is not what the Raiders are looking for.
The following is why the Raiders need to draft Russell. He has a quality the Raiders haven't had since Gannon.
"Down two touchdowns or up two touchdowns, he's the same quarterback. Sitting in the pocket with all kinds of time or throwing with guys hanging all over him, he is convinced that his next play will be his best play. Soaking up a record-setting day or suffering through a forgettable day, he still wants the ball at the end.
"I've always believed that you measure a quarterback on his bad days, not his good days," said Jimbo Fisher, who was Russell's offensive coordinator at LSU (Fisher left to take the same position at Florida State following the 2006 season). "When you're not having your best day, how do you respond? Can you stay into it and manage the game? JaMarcus knew he was a great player with great ability -- and he also knew, if something went wrong or if he messed something up, that he would usually get another chance.
"If he got that ball at the end of the game, he was going to beat your tail -- and he knew it."
The idea of bringing in Rodgers is surreal. Does that leave Walter as the next Tui? And, like others have already questioned, does that mean we don’t draft Russell? OUCH! Not sure I could handle that! I really don’t care what the risks are, I think we need to take a chance on JR. The upside may surpass anything we’ve ever seen at QB as Raider fans.
My biggest fear by far is, we don’t draft JR and he turns out to be something special for another team and we regret it for years to come (happens all the time). However, if we draft him and he’s a bust, even our worst critics can’t blame us for trying. That’s more than I can say about our other first round picks in recent history, save Huff (jury’s still out).
Raider 00 - You have every right to express your doubts and reservations about JRuss. I differ on 2 points you made in your recent post.
#1 "I would also say that the buzz when Jeff George was going to be the #1 pick, is very equal to what we are seeing now with Jruss.
Yes they are different type Qb's, but George was considered a "can't miss" prospect, with one of the greatest throwing arm's ever.
We all know how that turned out."
Besides the buzz and great arms, JRuss and Jeff George are 2 completely different QBs in every imaginable way. Jeff George was a failure because he had a bad attitude, wasn't coachable, had zero leadership abilities, and most importantly, did not possess the superior skill set that JRuss has. Jeff George's lack of mobility, ability to avoid the pass rush, and poor pocket awareness also factored into his poor performance. In 1997 with the Raiders Jeff George was sacked a record 58 times.
#2 "Hey, maybe Jruss will be like Charles Barkley, another big, flabby guy who went on to have a hall of fame career."
If you watched the pro-day video from the NFL Network and saw JRuss with his shirt off, there is no way you would call him a "big, flabby guy". At 6'6", 256 he is a big, strong man, plain and simple...he might not have a washboard stomach but he is far from flabby.
nyraider said:
However, if we draft him and he’s a bust, even our worst critics can’t blame us for trying.
true but for $30 MILLION GAURANTEED reasons you don't take that big of a chance with the number ONE pick overall!
Listen, I think JRuss has more upside than down. I think he will be a good NFL QB. The only reason why he is considered over weight is because he is compared to all the other QB's. The guy is rock solid. As Calico said, he may not have a washboard stomach, but he is built, and is not "soft" in the middle like Kolb, and even Quinn.
The one factor I have doubts on, was this last season against SEC teams, he fumbled the ball at least once during a scramble. But that is coachable fix in how he carries the ball.
Other complaints against him, was he never won a Championship at any level so far. Is that the player, team, or the system he is in? Brady never won a Championship either, but look at him now. Neither did Favre. There are a lot of good NFL QB's that did not win a Championship at the Collegiate Level, that won in the NFL. There are also a lot of QB's that won at the Collegiate Level, and didn't win anything in the NFL.
A lot of the negative concerns are either bogus, or coachable. That's my point with JRuss, he has proven that he is coachable. That is the biggest difference in what I saw with Leinart last year, and he doesn't have the physical tools that JRuss has, other than being a "heady" QB. Cutler and Young are arguable to me. I like the pick of Huff, but not as SS; but if Young was on the board when we picked last season, I think we would've took him. Cutler didn't impress Davis in personality or skill, for whatever reason. I don't believe he wanted Leinart either, because he's spoiled, and is demanding with what he feels he deserve. That never has set well with Davis. So given the QB's on the board when we picked, I think we made the right choice, at the time; especially with this past season's system (or lack thereof) that we ran. Imagine if Shell and the Raiders picked Leinart, that alone may have saved his job, and we could be in for another dismal season.
JRuss, like Huff, is a smart choice for this draft. I'd entertain C Johnson if we got rid of Moss, but I think we could get the same caliber at WR, for less $$, with Steve Smith, Limas Sweed, Robert Meachem, Chansi Stuckey, Dallas Baker, or Joel Filani.
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