Not Another Penny
I don't think these embarrassing beatdowns are just about tanking. You can lose games while still showing positives and progress. It speaks to a team that is truly beaten in every sense of the word.
My new rallying cry is NOT ANOTHER PENNY. I'm not spending anything more than time (watching, blogging) on this team until Mark Davis really mends his ways. The Raider Nation is being disrespected by Mark Davis. If we believe in the mantra of "Pride and Poise," then where is our pride as fans to keep feeding at this trough of nonsense? Not another penny - no gear, no media products, no gifts, no tickets.
It sounds fine and noble for Mark Davis to say that he prefers to delegate the things he doesn't know, but if you've proven you don't know how to delegate, maybe something else needs to give. If you keep mismanaging what you do control while mis-delegating the rest, and if years of so-called effort continues to produce worse and worse results, then it must be followed by (1) shame and (2) then true gut-level, radical and self-aware change.
Yet where is the evidence of either?
posted by Raider Take at 11:06 AM
27 Comments:
If we collectively do this as a fan base, I think he will get the message. I still think Mark Davis' options are two-fold at this point:
1) Sale the team
2) Take the route of Colts' owner Carlie Irsay-Gordon, and learn about what you don't know to hold people accountable.
This is the ONLY way the Raiders change for the better.
Hear hear!
Nate,...Robert Kraft is far from a football expert, but somehow, he has rebuilt the Pats into a playoff team in short order. Out went Belichick and Brady, in came Vrabel, and Maye.
The key is finding the right people to run things, and then don't get in the way.
Mark Davis has not found the right combination of GM, head coach, and QB. You have to have it all going at the same time. I really think it's that simple.
Ghost, I agree with you. I've been thinking about this, i.e., that many owners around the NFL delegate as Kraft does, but the key is finding the right people. To RT's point, Mark Davis has done neither. He hasn't effectively delegated, nor has he found the right people.
We are caught in pie-in-the-sky fantasy in which Davis has a dream and next thing we know Gruden is back with a 10-year contract, or Josh McDaniels is going to make the Raiders into the Patriots, or Tom Brady is going to save the franchise because he's the GOAT.
John Spyteck was way over his head. Pete Carroll should have stayed retired, and Tom Brady prevented the Raiders from drafting the most obvious pick in decades.
There's no cohesion to anything the Raiders do (currently or previously). And shame on Pete Carroll. NOTHING Carroll and the Raiders have done as a team in game planning or play calling has been even remotely clever. The blueprint to beat the Raiders was laid out Week 1 and it never changed. That blows my mind. The current Raiders is the most myopic version we've ever witnessed.
Pathetic!
Not another penny!
I disagree. I think Mark found the right GM with McKenzie, and he let him go because Gruden did not want to answer to someone. Listen, I like Gruden, but I thought that was the wrong move at the time. I don't think Del Rio was the long-term answer at coach; but neither was Gruden. I don't think Tom Brady is the answer either.
I think Pete Carroll is gone. So the question becomes who replaces him?
I think Chris Shula, Joe Brady, Mike LaFleur, Kevin Patullo, Ejiro Evero are the top candidates for Head Coach, unless Mike Tomlin gets fired out of Pittsburgh.
NYR,....But now Mark Davis has given us the Tom Brady problem. Brady is neither a GM, head coach, or a QB,(anymore). He is a minority owner/advisor/broadcaster.
The looming shadow of Brady potentially can cast darkness over the Raiders franchise for years to come. What credible college, or pro coach will come to work in the Brady shadow ?
What hotshot, OC, or DC will come to Vegas to be in the Brady shadow ? What experienced front office people will come to Vegas ? The answer is, no one.
The only people Raiders can hire right now are, "friends of Brady". People that he recommends, and no one else.
That is why I said a few takes back, that it is critical for Mark Davis to have a end of the season press conference. A state of the Raiders, if you will.
At the conference Davis should announce he is cleaning house, and starting over. But most importantly, he should tell the Raider nation that for this moment forward, Tom Brady will be a SILENT, minority owner of the Raiders. He will have no input into football decisions such as hiring, or drafting, or free agent signings.
If Davis does not break free from Brady quickly, this shadow can loom over the Raiders like a curse.
Nate, I don't understand your devotion to McKenzie. Mark Davis went over McKenzie's head to hire Del Rio on his own. That's how good McKenzie was doing. Then Del Rio let Musgrave get away after overseeing the best offense in Raiders modern history. Then Mark Davis did it again and hired Gruden on his own. Gruden blew it all up.
Ghost, I think we are a few more iterations away from "the presser" which Davis says he's putting stops on Brady's involvement. The sad truth is it's highly unlikely these guys believe they are at fault.
And therein lies the problem. They are incapable of introspection, at least to the extent they can admit any wrongdoing.
They are "designed to fail."
NYR,....I had this funny feeling the past off season that Mark Davis hired Carroll, and Tom Brady hired his friend, Spyteck, and that Carroll wanted his old QB, Geno Smith in Vegas.
That all boats were going in different directions. That everyone made themselves happy, but the end result was the one big mess we watched all year.
The insanity that Carroll still has a job has me baffled... and worried. Anyone reading my rants this season knowns the "It's time to compete" mantra Carroll spun out bothered me from the start, now marred by the fact that the Raiders have done anything but. These guys misread the Raiders roster and their retooling of it in epic fashion. They shifted players out of their natural positions, asked them to play schemes which they were not adequately trained or experienced with, then made no adjustments when it didn't work. The mere idea that Thorton Jr has started at WR most of the season and has only 8 receptions on the year encapsulates Pete Carroll's entire time with the Raiders.
He's the wrong head coach! How does he still have a job?!
The Raiders remain off the rails until the current era is over. I have little faith in Spytek either. He's part of the problem, but there's no chance he will lose his job (which I'd be happier to give back to Telesco - an experienced GM).
A nightmarish season, beyond our worst fears.
NYR,....If Spytek stays, then Brady will keep having input. He can go over owner, Mark Davis' head, right to his good friend, GM Spytek. An awful situation MD has put the Raiders in. Spytek has to be fired.
Stock and stake reporter
It's a bunch of guys wanting to be the ones to make sure new, business and originally in raider culture! Don't go for promises ho for! D who isn't doing anything, contro.ling his property. Nobody who has seem takeovers and corruption on corporations can think MD is doi g yhi
McKenzie was tasked with a whole organizational overhaul, not just football operations. It was McKenzie who exposed to Davis that they were paying 3 times the agreed amount to the O.Co Coliseum. It was McKenzie who exposed the organizational dysfunction among the Raiders top brass after Al Davis passed. You're wrong about Del Rio, McKenzie hired Del Rio after realizing that Dennis Allen was not ready for the role, and Reggie and Del Rio worked well together. It was McKenzie who helped the Raiders out of the salary cap mess that Al Davis had us in. It was McKenzie who had the team headed in the right direction by building the O-line and D-lines. He was the only person that Mark has hired who actually benefited the team, more than his ego. Not even Gruden did that! Gruden came in and destroyed everything McKenzie had built because it didn't fit his system. He blew up the #1 offensive line, he got rid of not only Khalil Mack, but also some of these other guys who went on elsewhere and destroyed (Jihad Ward, Mario Edwards, Justin Ellis, Gabe Jackson, Latavius Murray, Feliciano, TJ Carrie) and replaced them with players who were essentially one and done.
It was McKenzie who suggested to Mark Davis to hire Sandra Douglass-Morgan, even though he was no longer with the team.
McKenzie had some awesome drafts, minus 2017; and some of those drafted players are still making an impact in the league. He didn't hit on every draft pick, but he had a great percentage of players who exceeded their expectations.
I am big on McKenzie because he brought value back to the Raiders and Mark cut him out like he was nothing in favor of Gruden. I still believe he and Del Rio knew they were going to get the axe, because Gruden and Del Rio shared the same agent. I believe this is why Musgrave was not retained. I believe this is why the Raiders fell flat in 2017. I wonder what would have happened if Gruden was not in the picture at all, what McKenzie would have built and where the Raiders would be today. McKenzie was, and still is, a true Raider who loved the team above everything else. That's why I am so BIG on Reggie.
Nate, it was Mark Davis who traveled to Denver to interview Jack Del Rio for HC. Not Reggie McKenzie. The Raiders salary cap issues were well-known. That was McKenzie's primary task when hired. Still, six years is a long time to be GM without winning a single playoff game. His best draft was 2014 (Mack & Carr). He also hit on Kolton Miller. Other than that, not sure what you see. With his first notable pick, McKenzie stupidly drafted DJ Hayden, the kid who was coming off life-threatening injury. He used high draft picks on guys like Brandon Parker, Jihad Ward, Mario Edwards, Clive Walford, Menelik Watson, Tony Bergstrom and others... arguably all flops during down years. Gruden dispensed with Mack and Cooper as soon as he was hired, and McDaniels chased Carr out of town. Those were McKenzie's best picks.
McKenzie held his own at times, but he's part of the Raiders fall from grace. Not all his fault, but he can't escape it any more than others who guided the Raiders during the past 22 years. It's a long list, with some well-established names that now includes Pete Carroll. Again, not the fault of any single GM, coach or draft. This is on Mark Davis.
To borrow a phase, Mark Davis wears a ponderous chain.
Nate,...Reggie McKenzie was solid with the draft, but he whiffed on hiring Dennis Allen as HC. And, have to agree with NYR, as I recall, it was Mark Davis that hired JDR, and that really began the phasing out of Reggie.
I would also note that while McKenzie has done some scouting work since leaving the Raiders, he has never landed a GM job elsewhere in the league.
Nate I agree with your view on Reggie. And there was logic to his approach.
Look at what he did with and for Carr. He got a high end passer in the second round who would rather step up in the pocket and shred than make plays with his feet. So what did he do? He went about building a badass offensive line to let Carr develop without getting killed like his brother.
He didn’t wish Carr was a different player. He didn’t insist Carr become something he’s not. He built an environment that benefited the most important player on the team and it worked! The proof is in the pudding, Carr’s jump between year one and two was massive and nobody blinked at the idea that he was in the MVP race in year three.
I think Reggie is totally undervalued by a lot of Raider followers.
Steve, I don't disagree with your assessment but, if I may, I believe there were other reasons for Carr's "quick development" in Year 2. First, hats off to Carr for becoming unquestioned starter in his rookie season. The Raiders were desperate for a starting QB and McKenzie drafted one... arguably his best pick (in terms of player and value). 2014 was a memorable draft.
But remember Dennis Allen was fired after 4 games in Carr's first year. Also, Carr was coming off a 50-TD year in college (mostly to Davante Adams). Raiders immediately asked him to play under center after playing shotgun his entire college career. That undervalued Carr's talent. Enter Bill Musgrave in 2015 (Carr's second year). Musgrave unleased Carr's potential by allowing him to play shotgun formation.
IMO, that was the reason for the jump to success that Carr experienced, and the Raiders have not been able to duplicate it since. This year is just another example, with Carroll and Co. forcing players into a system instead of tapping into their individual strengths. Playing his system-first method, Carroll has failed Ashton Jeanty, JPJ and others on this year's team.
The Raiders don't see nor understand the repetition of their failures.
NY, it's funny you mentioned Brandon Parker, Jihad Ward, Mario Edwards as draft flops. Gruden cut these players, who are all contributing well on other teams. Jihad Ward was a beast for the Colts until recently, and a Pro Bowler. Same with Justin Ellis. Mario Edwards is tearing it up for the Texans, whom we play this weekend. Parker is currently one of the brightest offensive lineman for the 49ers.
Maybe I'm wrong about the Del Rio hire, but that doesn't change the fact that he and Del Rio worked well together.
Ghost, McKenzie currently works for the Tennessee Titans as Vice President/Football Advisor, a position a little better than GM. This is his first year with the Titans in that position. Before the Raiders he was the Director of Player Personnel for the Packers; and that is their GM position, but they don't use that title since they are a publicly traded team. He was the Sr. Personnel Director for the Dolphins until last season.
Reggie, like Champ Kelly, is highly respected around the league. It is a shame that neither of them are GM's anywhere. I would have loved to seen Kelly as GM of the Raiders instead of Telesco.
Good points! I’ll add that I remember Musgrave saying he instructed Carr to drop an extra step or two even after he took the shotgun snap because “it gives him better vision and comfort and he has more than enough arm to make up for it.”
That was a huge factor as was the building of a big, nasty offensive line. Coaching the guys you have, not the guys you WISH you had, what a concept!
S and S reporter
To nfellow fan Nate. Reggie was a temp a guy hired by Madden or was he? He wasn't ready and worse was approved by the NFL only because he wasn't an old Raiders but an NFL executive. They se, to want to wash away our culture and ,are a NFL one. About new culture and plans but not towi. Like AL tried but making money and getting more rich owners to make teams valuab,e
I am going to start focusing on the 2026 Draft for the Raiders. A lot of buzz around Indiana QB Mendoza, and rightfully so. I think he is a good QB, very comparable to CJ Stroud. However, I don't think he is the best QB going into the draft, I think that belongs to Drew Allar; especially with Arch Manning returning to Texas. With Drew's injury, a lot of media pundits are not talking about him, out of sight, out of mind. However, a lot of scouts are talking about Drew. His draft position will be weighed on his recovery and how he does in the combine and work outs. He can go anywhere in the 1st-3rd rounds
The options for the Raiders are:
1. Draft Mendoza (if we stay at #2) and then draft needs (O-line, D-Line, #1 CB, #1 WR, and LB).
2. Skip Mendoza, start drafting best value in first 2 rounds, and target Drew Allar in the 3rd (at this point, unless his stock rises).
At this point, I am going with the second option. Again, I love Mendoza, and think he's the real deal; but a QB is not going to change things for us at this point with all the holes we have. So here is what I would be looking to do if I were the GM.
If we stay at the #2 spot, I say we trade down a few spots and target either or David Bailey (DE/OLB, Texas Tech) or Rueben Bain Jr (DE, Miami) . Bailey has 13.5 sacks on the year so far, and I think he is the better and more consistent of the two. Bain's production has fallen since 2023 (his best year), and I don't know if it is from a nagging injury, or something else, haven't watched film. But I think Bailey would be the perfect compliment for Crosby.
In the 2nd Round, I would look to select Drew Shelton (OT/G, Penn St). He could effectively start at Guard, a much needed position for the Raiders. With these two picks, we effectively build the O-Line and D-Line. Especially with Rogers and Grant starting (which they should have started all season).
3rd Round - Drew Allar (QB, Penn St). The best QB in the Draft, and I think he may rise in workouts and the combine.
4th Pick #1 - Carnell Tate (WR, Ohio St). We have 3 picks in Round 4. Going heavy here.
4th Pick #2 - Jacob Rodriguez (ILB, Texas Tech). I'm not sure he is here at this point, but most scouts have him as a 3rd or 4th Rounder; so I will put him here for now.
4th Pick #3 - Chris McClellan (DT, Missouri). One of the most underrated DTs coming into the draft. He has 42 tackles and 5 sacks this season. Reminds me a lot of Warren Sapp.
5th Round - Ethan Onianwa (OT, Ohio St) or Diego Pounds (OT, Ole Miss). I'm not sure Onianwa is there. Most scouts have him 3rd through 5th rounds. But if he is there you take him. Need depth, especially with Kolton Miller fighting injury the last few years. You need someone who can step in and play, and both these would be steals at the Tackle position (which is one of the deepest positions in the draft this year).
6th Pick #1 - Ryan Baer (OT, Pittsburgh). Going for depth, Baer has played both Right and Left Tackle. He is 6'7, 325 lbs, so he has good size.
6th Pick #2 - Chris Johnson (CB, San Diego St) or Davison Igbinosun (CB, Ohio St) Not sure Davison is here, but if he is you take him, he is a starter who is not getting a lot of love by media or scouts. Not sure why. Chris Johnson is another who can start.
7th Round - Daniel Calhoun (OG, Georgia). Going for depth, Calhoun is not getting a lot of love because he has rotated in and out of the line-up with young players. Not sure if it is injury related, or conditioning related, or if Kirby Smart is wanting to give younger guys experience. Calhoun is 6'7, 320 lbs, so he has the size to start, but because he is being rotated in and out, it has hurt his stock.
Nate, Allar is a good athlete and has a strong arm but man he sucked this past year. It would probably be best if the Raiders ended up with Mendoza and joined him with Jeanty and Bowers. I live in the 305 and Bain is a beast. Sandy
If there's a franchise QB in the draft, the Raiders better figure it out. There's no perfect organization out there, and the Raiders are far from it. But a franchise QB could get them halfway back to being respectable. Behind all the great coaches in football there is (or was) a great QB.
That said, they shouldn't draft QB for the sake of it. There is no more margin for error if they plan to remedy decades of mistakes in less than five years.
Right now there is nothing to get excited or even feel good about. The Raiders have reached their lowest point in my lifetime. Media is reporting they are trying to buyout Pete's contract, but Pete isn't selling. He still thinks he can fix it. Really? Pete, you're done. Go home. Play with the grandkids. Enjoy life. But please leave the Raiders!
The Raiders can't fix their coaching problem until they make changes. Pete Carroll has made me wish for the days of Art Shell II. At least Art's defense had some chops. But the Raiders (Mark Davis) are always a day late and a dollar short. Their solutions are half-assed, lacking due diligence, intelligence and cohesion.
Pete should have been fired weeks ago. Raiders need to turn the page asap. Crazy Carroll still thinks he can win. Worst case, if he actually does win another game or two, ala the 2024 Raiders under Antonio Pierce, the Raiders will once again pay for it long-term.
Time to pack up egos and save them for 2026. We don't need a sugar high by winning a meaningless game. That only leads to diabetes.
If the Raiders get the top pick they will be in control. Either draft a QB or trade back with somebody like the Rams who have two first round picks (they own Atlanta's pick) and will be looking for a QB. Unfortunately, whatever the Rams do, it will be immensely smarter than the Raiders. They have built (and continue to build) a team through the draft in a way the Raiders could only dream. But they will need to replace Stafford and may be willing to surrender two first round picks to do it. Raiders could have three of the first 33 picks in 2026. But are they smart enough to handle that? History says they're not.
Raiders are two TD underdogs today. Actually, +14.5 points at some books. How often does that happen? Only when underdog teams are thoroughly incompetent.
The Raiders have proven that there are many levels of rock bottom. Today proposes to provide another example. Personally, I'd give the points. The only way the Raiders cover is if the Texans fall asleep... which is possible, I guess.
One more thought on this game, Raiders plan to start Geno Smith. The sad truth is that they already know Smith is a flop, and Pickett hasn't been any better. But the new regime doesn't know what AOC can do in a real game, and there are three games left.
Pete Carroll continues to push all the wrong buttons. If John Spytek is in a rebuilding mode, Pete Carroll is his worst enemy. Carroll has resisted a rebuild from the start, playing long-in-the-tooth veterans over rookies and young players at almost every turn.
The Raiders will be set to completely overhaul their roster again this off-season, and they will have not reasonably vetted which young players to retain. They are as blind as last off-season.
Even with Pete Carroll at the helm, the Raiders continue to be stupid. Carroll will likely soon go down as the worst head coach in Raiders history. That's an amazing prospect. But no Raiders team has gotten their ass kicked on a weekly basis like the Carroll Raiders. Truly remarkable.
Allar was injured early in the season and hasnt played since his injury. What makes you think he sucked? Based on what? He had 1100 passing yard in 6 weeks before his injury
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