Giants "Tankathon" Thread
This is an unserious franchise. For the first time, I'm not gonna end a gameday thread with "Go Raiders!" because they absolutely don't want to win this one. They've even decided to alienate their keystone player to gain a draft advantage when they're actually in this sorry position after earning and wasting high draft picks constantly for years. You can't make this stuff up. Help me get the word out: NOT ANOTHER PENNY!
posted by Raider Take at 1:04 PM
35 Comments:
That was either a masterful performance by a desperate team to gain the #1 pick in the draft, or they are every bit as pathetic as they appear.
You make the call.
One more failure to go! Then clear the decks! Fire them all...!!!
If antone thinks picking a QB at #1 will change everything, then they havent been paying attention
What does that mean?
Do you not want the #1 pick?
Do you think the Raiders can win without drafting a top QB?
if so, where can they get a QB?
Mendoza just won the Heisman Trophy. Raiders are all out of options. Look what Caleb Williams is doing with Ben Johnson as his coach.
The Raiders may never get another chance like this. This is it. Time for them to push their chips to the middle of the table and go "all-in."
Otherwise, what is it that you think needs to happen? Mark Davis isn't going to sell the team. Tom Brady isn't going to relinquish his newly given authority. And Brady isn't going to fire his buddy Jon Spytek.
Do you think drafting a star edge rusher with a top-5 pick will change the Raiders fait? That's a luxury for a team that has a QB.
The Raiders can have the #1 pick and they will have ample cap space next year. Lots of problems can be solved if they are smart.
If Mendoza is a bust, we can say at least the Raiders tried. On the other hand, if the Raiders beat the Chiefs next week and lose the opportunity to draft him, or they chose to draft another player and Mendoza continues his journey as a top-notch QB, the Raiders will have failed again.
It's hard enough watching Shedeur Sanders make hay in Cleveland. Imagine what passing on Mendoza might look like.
NY, I agree with everything you say except the fact that Sanders is making hay in Cleveland Sander is mediocre at best I don't know what's your obsession with him. I'd much rather have Mendoza as I may have mentioned I live in Miami and have been following Mendoza since he played in high school I think he can be as good as Carr and with 100 million in cap room next year the Raiders can be competitive if they make the Right Moves. Mendoza Bowers Jeanty all under 23 Sandy
Sanders is not an obsession. The Raiders made it a storyline when they passed on him 7x, then drafted two rookie QBs right after the Browns drafted him. IMO he is making hay. He was elevated to Browns starter. He beat the Raiders straight up, and just game-managed a win against the Steelers. Not bad for a 5th rounder who has development potential. Be interesting to see the Browns depth chart next season.
I guess if I were to list mistakes I believe the Raiders made this year, not taking a flyer on Sanders is on it, along with hiring Pete Carroll, hiring Chip Kelly, moving JPJ to guard, implementing ZBS (O-line) and cover-3 defense as primary schemes, and trading Jakobi Meyers.
Those are all on my list of stupid things the Raiders did.
I'd give honorable mention to firing Telesco (after one year and a pretty solid draft) and retaining Patrick Graham. There are a few others, of course.
NY,
What does that mean?
Do you not want the #1 pick? Not what I said
Do you think the Raiders can win without drafting a top QB? Not what I said.
if so, where can they get a QB?
Here is what it means:
Having the #1 pick overall is not going to change this team. Drafting a QB with the first overall pick is not going to fix the Raiders. Its the ownership, coaching, O-Line, D-Line, CB, WR, roster depth, etc. I am still of the opinion too that Drew Allar is a better QB option than Mendoza. With that said, I wouldn't mind either.
I'm also not sold on the fact that the O-Line is as terrible as they have played this year. I think it is the coaching. I say this because they look lost on almost every play, and are confused on their assignments.
I still think Mark Davis needs to put himself in a position to "learn" what he "doesn't know" to start holding people accountable; and if/when he does this will be the catalyst of change.
I'm not sold on Pete Carroll and his sons as coaches, I'm not sold on Spytek as GM, and I'm sure as hell not sold on Tom Brady as the voice of Football operations. I think we need to rid ourselves of all three, and let the new GM bring in his own coach (not Robert Saleh, not Klint Kubiak).
But even then, if Mark is not committed to learning what he doesn't know, and is unwilling to hold staff/coaches/players accountable; it doesn't matter what they do, this franchise won't turn around.
That is what I mean.
Thanks for the clarification. Unfortunately, we can't count on Mark Davis doing the right thing, only that he will continue to do the same thing. Raiders are an organization steeped in bad tendencies. It carries with them on and off the field.
I appreciate your interest in a different QB. That's interesting. I don't know much about either. I tend to go with the shiny object this time of year. And what you said about the O-line I think we've both been saying all year. Their failures are more about coaching.
IMO, the Raiders failures are way too big to be reversed by any single thing, player or event. One thing at a time.
Priority #1: Secure the #1 pick. That will open the door to opportunity, like drafting Mendoza. Also, having the #1 pick could attract a new head coach to the Raiders, like Williams attracted Ben Johnson to Chicago.
There's no more time or room for error. Even having the 2nd pick in the draft is a mistake for a team so decimated by failure.
At this point, I am holding steady on Mendoza or bust for the Raiders.
I would add this, Maxx Crosby should sit down and shut up. Love the guy but this is way bigger than beating the f-n Giants or Chiefs. The #1 pick could start a reversal of fortunes after decades of failure.
The "time to compete" era is a bust! Time to finish it off.
Nate,....I agree with you. Drafting Mendoza will only matter if Mark Davis can turn Raiders into a winning organization. It can't all be put on Mendoza's back, it has to start at the top. Obviously, a team has to be put around Mendoza. That's the hard part.
The example is Joe Burrow. Great Qb, playing for a lousy organization. And I also do not like the power structure currently in place for the Raiders. Davis, Brady, Spytek, Carroll, doesn't make me feel good about the future.
NYR,....Shedeur Sanders beating the Raiders tells us very little. Drake Maye did not beat the Raiders. It's meaningless.
Ghost, Pats game was the first of the season, under new coaching and clearly an anomaly for both teams - based on the season now behind us.
To be clear, I've never anointed Sanders a franchise QB. Far from it. Just seems like common sense to have taken a flyer on the kid in the late 4th round (with our 7th pick). It's a story worth following, IMO. He's more exciting to watch than Geno Smith, and the Raiders thought enough of Smith to pay him over $60M. I guess I thought I was just pointing out the obvious.
As for drafting Mendoza, the Raiders have to start somewhere. Not having a potential franchise QB is where we are now, i.e., nowhere.
Your point about the power structure is right on. But, with the possible exception of Carroll, we would be banging our head against a wall expecting the hierarchy to change (that's Al Davis billboard territory). I fully expect Tom Brady to be even more involved this offseason, as reported. There's nothing that will change that, including and especially Mark Davis who is all-in with Brady.
I said before, I believe the Raiders will need to go through several more iterations of failure before anything changes at the top. Even then, it's doubtful. They will fire Spytek long before Davis removes Brady from his involvement.
Tom Brady is a smart guy. We can only hope he learns ownership on the fly.
IMO, the idea that Mark Davis has to change before the Raiders can win might be true but also moot. It's not gonna happen. My hope is that the Raiders can put something together and win despite Davis and his band of misfits. Again, for me, that starts with Mendoza or some other franchise QB.
Then there are stories like this one...
https://www.raidersbeat.com/raiders-gm-neutered-of-authority-reports-say/
Tom Brady is the Raiders next generation of control monger. John Spytek is a place keeper for management. This article and many others like it report that it's Brady who makes the call. That would explain why Telesco was fired and Spytek inserted. That event helped send the Raiders into their current downward spiral.
NY,
I read that article this morning too. It doesn't surprise me, the Raiders front office and football operations are in total disarray. I've also heard the biggest problem in the Raiders front office and Football Operations is former announcer Jim Gray, who is considered the primary advisor to Mark Davis, though he has no official title with the team. Here is a link to an article that led me to dig a little more into this:
https://justblogbaby.com/amy-trask-names-key-raiders-behind-the-scenes-issue-and-its-not-tom-brady
Amy Trask, of all people I trust, says this is the biggest issue that Raider Nation doesn't know about. Jim Gray is and always has been a clown, in fact, he's a bigger clown that Ken Rosenthal. At some point, Mark Davis has to rid himself of these kind of people and get control of his team.
More and more evidence (or at least reporting) reveals that the entire organization was screwed up this year. Here are the basics, as media reports.
Tom Brady essentially took over for Mark Davis.
John Spytek was under Brady's direct guidance.
Brady and Spytek were in rebuild mode.
Carroll was in win-now mode.
Chip Kelly ran Pete Carroll's offense (not his own).
Patrick Graham ran Pete Carroll's defense (not his own).
And Pete Carroll ran the whole thing into the ground.
There's no way this season could have been worse.
What's worse is, Pete Carroll wants another bite at the apple.
IMO, Carroll wants to beat the Chiefs. My guess is shutting down Maxx Crosby came from upstairs. There's at least somebody in the org who understands that losing to the Giants and Chiefs is really a win for the Raiders.
It may not matter if the Raiders win or lose to obtain the first pick, that could be decided based on games played before us. If the Giants win/tie against the Cowboys, we have the #1 pick.
However, if the Raiders, by some miracle win, and the Giants lose, the Raiders can still win the #1 pick if three of these 4 teams lose:
Seahags (at 9ers) Saturday @ 7pm
Browns (at Cincy) Sunday at Noon
Falcons (at NO) Sunday at Noon
Bears (at Detroit) Sunday at 3:25
Giants v Cowboys Sunday at Noon
Best case, Raiders get #1 pick before game and leave the Chiefs buried under the desert grass of Allegiant Stadium.
We've seen enough carnage for one season.
Worst case scenario the Raiders have the number two pick so it's Mendoza or Moore one of them will be the new Raiders quarterback next year. Sandy
If the Raiders drop out of the #1 slot, I'd like them to draft a non-QB at #2 and pick Drew Allar later. Of course, that is dependent on his recovery progress from his injury this year. But, I've said it before, I think Drew is the best QB this draft. He's just been injured this year. He would have been the #1 QB last year if he had declared.
Mendoza, in my opinion, is comparable to CJ Stroud. Drew Allar is comparable to Josh Allen. Both are quality QBs I wouldn't mind having.
But again, none of this matters if the Raiders as an organization doesn't change, and that falls squarely on Mark Davis
That's exactly why the Raiders need the #1 pick. There can be no uncertainty.
They have an opportunity to offer a top coaching prospect his choice in the 2026 draft as well as the Raiders ample salary cap. This opportunity may never happen again, if we're lucky.
Nate, how do you think the organization is going to change? If you believe your last statement in absolute terms, it's already over for you. I hope the Raiders can win despite their organization. That's how they've done it in the past.
Honestly, when did the Raiders not have a dysfunctional organization?
IMO, the dysfunction that mainly exists at ownership level is their lack of due diligence. Mark Davis operated with tunnel vision in hiring coaches like Del Rio, Gruden, McDaniels, and even Pierce. Tom Brady did the same with Pete Carroll. All without understanding or considering how those coaches well-known signature schemes might affect personnel with widespread roster changes, etc.
Consequently, for years the Raiders vacillated back and forth between power and ZBS on offense, between man and zone defenses, etc. With Mark Davis firing coaches every other year, the roster never caught up to his coaches schemes.
Pete Carroll dumped like 9 of 11 starters on defense. He moved an All-American center to guard and brought in Alex Cappa and Stone Forsythe, both of whom were failures before they arrived. They traded Jaboki Meyers and left the team without a starting WR, for which they brought in Tyler Lockett, at like age 50.
The "time to compete" plan was never going to work. How could it?
The rebuild must start with drafting a franchise QB. Otherwise, they will again be choosing from a QB list of Aaron Rogers, Joe Flacco, Marcus Mariota, and the like. Of course, there's always Geno Smith or Aiden O'Connell.
Careful what you wish for. There's only up or further down the rabbit hole.
As it stands, if nothing changes, we have two more years of "trying to be competitive."
Right now?
Priority #1: Get the #1 pick
Priority #2: Fire Pete Carroll and his entire staff (leave no one behind).
Priority #3: Take a collective breath and carefully ponder the reset.
Put it this way, the next time Greg Olsen is calling plays for the Raiders will be the next time the Raiders fail and we'll be doing this all over again. Lather, rinse and repeat.
Some of what you brought out is why I don't believe Pete stays, but again, if Mark had any drive to learn what he doesnt know, he wouldn't have allowed Pete (and McDaniels and Gruden) to get rid of key players,and forced them to play to the strength of the roster and not a system. He would have prevented him from Cover 3 defense. Pete's failures are a reflection of Mark being content to claim ignorance
Happy New Year to all. 2026 marks 250 years for the USA. Hopefully it will be a special one for the Raiders. Health and happiness!
Happy New Year! Ohio St git beat down. We habe a good game going this morning with TX Tech v Oregon.
Keep an eye on Behren Morton (QB, Tech), Jacob Rodriguez, and Bailey of Tech. Wreck 'em, Tech!
Not a good showing by Tech offense so far. Bailey and Rodriguez, however, is tearing it up
So far, since last year, the team with a bye week has lost their game. Looks like it will continue with Oregon and Tech. Behren Morton and Tech's iffense has been horrid. This is the worst Morton has played all season.
Playing well in big games is what separates ballers from pretenders.
Mendoza looks real. Accurate! Savvy!
Not sure what else Mendoza has to do to convince Raiders fans & brass he's the right pick. 13-0 season, Heisman Trophy, 3 TD 158 QB rating in the Rose Bowl. If I'm Mark Davis, I'd be quietly shutting down the Raiders for Sunday. On Monday, I'm firing everybody and initiating a hard target search starting with the top coordinators on playoff bound teams.
I might even consider hiring staff from Indiana to help jumpstart Mendoza's career. Indiana OC Mike Shanahan (no relation) must deserve some of the credit. They demonstrated a great mix of runs and passes.
It seems so obvious, even for a numskull like me.
P.S. Dolphins claimed Cam Miller off the Raiders practice squad. Just one more reminder of the calamity the 2025 draft has become. Wasn't Miller Tom Brady's pick? Just like rookie Thorton Jr has 10 receptions after starting 16 games at WR. Fire everybody!
This sums it up well.
"Safe to say, if Pete Carroll and company find a way to lose the no. 1 pick on Sunday, it would be arguably the most disappointing win in franchise history."
Headline: "Flagship Host Says Mark Davis wanted to Beat the Giants in Week 17"
I have no doubt. Mark Davis is a child.
And maybe that's why the Raiders will never again be a winning organization. Inasmuch as Davis brought in Tom Brady, it seems as though it's Davis who still has control. It's Davis who decides the HC. He sits in the war room during drafts and thinks he's Al, but he will always be 10 steps behind. There are 31 other teams who outflank Davis on an annual basis, even with Davis wielding high draft picks (and plenty of cap space) virtually every year.
As I said before, he vacillates back and forth every 1.5 years with a new head coach who diametrically opposes the previous coach in terms scheme and personnel needs. There is no way to reconcile that. Davis is a child playing a man's game.
We're waiting in a bus terminal for a luxury jet. That can never happen.
Miller should have been brought up to start. I'm not sure what is holding Pete back from doing so; but he held back Rogers and Grant all season, and when they finally played, they balled out.
Pete and Company have to go. Mark Davis is Jim Gray's puppet. 2 things have become clear to me this season: Mark Davis needs to put a concerted effort to learn what he doesn't know; and Jim Gray has to go for this organization to turn around. Not sure that is going to happen.
We fans predicted it right when McDaniel traded away DC without a back up plan; it put our organization back at least 5 years, if not more. Will Mendoza or any other QB change that? Don't know, remains to be seen. What we do know is if the Raiders have the #1 pick, it should be Mendoza.
Just Prove It, Baby!
Nate, you saw what we all saw. There may be other QBs in this draft with more upside than Mendoza, but many thought that of JaMarcus Russell. Mendoza is ready now. He just needs to get acclimated to his new team. Hopefully, it's the Raiders. He'll need a WR, or two!
Today is one F'd-up day for Raiders fans. For some fans, it's impossible to root against their team no matter what the benefit of losing. I get that. But today is much bigger than one game or anyone's ego (Hello! Mark Davis!). It boils down to literally decades of failure on full display, where one more failure could help change the course of the franchise for the next decade or longer.
Pete Carroll, who's likely to get fired this week, said he plans to "play everybody," which means we should expect the Raiders to be a total mess. Let's face it, even with their best players in the lineup, the 2025 Raiders have sucked all year. IMO, if they somehow "step up" with "everybody" that would only further demonstrate how badly the coaches have misread their roster all season long.
So, the stars are lined up for a loss and a lock of the number draft pick (Mendoza or bust!). Or are they? What if the Chiefs don't show up? What if they decide to stick it to the Raiders and tank themselves? IDK, Andy Reid is a class act and I believe the Chiefs are better than that. They have a better team and should be able to finish off the Raiders with a whimper.
Yet I can't help but think the Raiders will find a way to screw it up. They always do, at least over the past two plus decades.
The Giants, on the other hand, are playing for next year. They have a chance to finish the season with a bang. Unlike the Raiders, they have a decent young QB and they've played many close games this year. They destroyed the Raiders last week and can beat a division rival this week to end their season.
So while I expect the Raiders to at least try and do something stupid, I plan to root for the Giants to help the Raiders out. Even with a Raiders win, a Giants win gives them 4 wins on the season and Raiders hold strength of schedule tiebreakers against other would-be 3-win teams. (At least that's what I've read.)
So, Go Giants!
... and maybe we can breathe easier this off-season while the Raiders market a team with the #1 draft pick to prospective new head coaches.
Giants up 16-10 at half. Lets hope it holds and the Raiders can stomp Chiefs and still retain #1 pick
The Giants are taking care of business.
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