Draft Night Thread
I'm a little late to the game, but pound it here for all of your draft night takes. We need a QB!
posted by Raider Take at 5:22 PM
I'm a little late to the game, but pound it here for all of your draft night takes. We need a QB!
posted by Raider Take at 5:22 PM
49 Comments:
Stunned is probably my first impression. Bowers would need to be viewed as a franchise player to carry that much clout as "best player available" over so many positions of need. The Raiders had their pick of the best D players in college.
Has Telesco already jumped the shark?
So, they drafted a TE last year and pass on an elite CB today? so now we know they'll pick an OT(2nd pick) and miss out on more top CBs! Its' not complaining well, it is but, seeing a con job continue its' mediocrity! Now, watch how fans defend the pick, media hypes the pick, the Raiders call it a great pick and how haters laugh at the pick, critic fans/ critic media criticizes the pick and how they all argue over the pick!..., you may still like the pick and see big future but might have some questions/ see some experience issues with this new regime.
Raidernation, really!? when we needed an OT and CB? We could've even picked a DT or DE!
Wow! So, why Bowers? to copy S.F., K.C. and S.D.? to get score more points? To have two top TEs' in some schemes or help the QB get rid of the ball quicker?
Wow! well, we passed on some elite players and we still need to build a good D. We may've missed out on some top defensive help.
And now I have to look at other Anon and NY Raiders' posts defending the Bowers pick.
To Raidertake,
Why did they do it?
Is the some of MD's Patroits friend trying to get the Raiders to build the same Bellichick system with star TEs(Gronk, Hernandez)?
Is Tellesco trying to bring the SD Chargers' success to L.V.(Winslow, Gates, Sievers, )?
Are they trying to show K.C. they can get a star TE too...and hopefully score like K.C. too?
Do they want to use a cheaper QB vet or rookie picked lower and feel a TE can make it easier to move the offense by not being under pressure waiting on WRs' and getting rid of the ball to a star TE?
Why did they do this?
I am surprised! and this time though it was an outstanding player, it looks like a huge surprise and reach! When they have issues on their D and don't have LBs' and CBs' they decide to draft a star TE!
L.A. took Alt when they may already have a top LT, Denver picked B. Nix and Atlanta picked M. Pennix after signing Mariota other than that everybody has a very good pick. But Denver sometimes builds good defenses and again, the Falcons have a veteran QB but the Raiders don't have a good D yet and again, passed on some outstanding CBs'.
To answer the question, I have no idea.
It doesn't seem to matter the year or the coach or the GM, the Raiders always seem to find a way to reach. It's astonishing.
Or maybe I'm wrong. Brugler in The Athletic: "Bowers is an explosive pass catcher who creates mismatches all over the field with speed, ball skills and competitive edge. He has NFL star potential in the mold of George Kittle, if he lands with a play caller prepared to feature his unique and versatile talent."
RT, it's no reach the guy is 21, I watched him dominate the sec he will be a pro bowler. Sandy
Wow! It's a headscratcher for sure. The Raiders had their pick of top defensive players in the country, so picking a TE after drafting Michael Mayer last year makes no sense.
However, if I'm looking for positive spin, here's what I found. Bowers was a consensus best player on at least some boards, not something the Raiders typically do. Think: Alex Leatherwood, Henry Ruggs, Clelin Ferrill, or some of Al's guys like Darrius Heyward Bey. Not only were those guys NOT the best available, they weren't the best at their respective positions.
But that doesn't totally explain, nor justify the Bowers pick, IMO.
The Saints took the Raiders OT right after the Raiders "fumbled" their pick, and country's best CBs didn't even surface until mid-round.
Bowers needs to be almost Gronk level to make sense.
If there's a saving grace, here it is. The draft is loaded with CB talent. It's tough to get past the first 2-3 CBs who are sure-starters, but media analysts still have lots of CBs on their boards through the top-150 players.
And the Raiders still need a smart pick at RT. We need to stay focused!
At the end of the day (yesterday!), Telesco is either a genius or he blew it with his very first pick. I guess if you're not sure about Bowers, go look at his highlight reel. There's little doubt that Minshew just got better. But was that the right call for the Raiders?!
Bowers is an amazing TE, and with Mayer, we will probably run a lot of 2 TE sets. However, they left a lot on the board. Quinyon Mitchell, Troy Fautanu, and Terrion Arnold. To be honest, the last real worthy 1st round pick we made was Charles Woodson. Such a bizaare draft. The first 14 picks were offense, no defense, 6 of the top 12 were QBs. A lot of 2nd Round talent picked in the first, especially on offense. Throw your mocks out.
I dont know why it published me as Raider Take, but the last one is Raider Nate 75
So now that the first round destroyed us, here is what we could end up with next. But as we saw, don't hold your breath.
Rnd 2: Cooper DeJean, CB/S, Iowa. We still have a chance to pick him. But he may go off the board early. I worry about the Bills selecting him with the first pick in the 2nd. If he is gone, my pick is OL. Either Roger Rosengarten who played both RT and RG for Washington; or Kingsley Suamataia who could play both RT or LT out of BYU. We may even have the chance to get Johnny Newton, DT, Illinois here too.
Rnd 3-77: James Williams, S/OLB, Miami. NOt sure he will be here either, and if not, then we go with Chop Robinson OLB/DE Penn St, or Zak Zinter, OG, Michigan.
Rnd 4: Joe Milton, QB, Tennessee. I think he or Michael Pratt (QB, Tulane) is our pick here.
Rnd 5: Layden Robinson, RG, TX A&M
Rnd 6: Marcus Harris, DT, Auburn. I flipped this pick with Miyan Williams. With the way this draft is going, there is not telling, he may even go in the 2nd round. HA!
Rnd 7-223: Miyan Williams, RB, Ohio St
Rnd 7-229: Khalid Duke, OLB/DE, Kansas.
Because the Raiders chose to indulge in drafting a new toy where a hole clearly did NOT exist in their roster, IMO, they need to hit it out of the park in Day 2. That means filling roster needs at CB and OT, probably in that order.
Coverage LB has long-been a problem for the Raiders and I don't see them solving it now. If they try, they will likely fail, as they have so many times.
Stay focused, Raiders!
Bowers is a bargain at 13, he is a pro bowl talent. TE may not be a positon of huge need but weapons on offese is. In case you guys forgot the minessota game or the last 3 quarters of the KC game where they could not complete a pass. There was no QB to take (hopefully Rattler is picked) and I feel good about taking a potential star versus a lesser player of need at CB or OL. Not saying Arnold or Mitchell is Celin Ferrell but Bowers is way more of a sure thing than those two. Finally WR/TE/pass catcher I would have ranked as third area of need after CB/OL. Meyer looks decent but not great, Adams is a superstar but may be gone in a year or two given his contract., Jakobi is good but after that there is only Tucker who is not a starter so the pass catcher room is rather thin. Bowers pretty quickly becomes the second bes tskill playe ron the team behind Adams.
Sandy
Yeah, 'reach' is probably the wrong term.
I know it's different GMs, but two of our last top three picks dating back to last year are Tight Ends. When you think of the Raiders, do you think, we just need more great tight ends.
Just seems like more of a luxury/accessory.
Great player, likely great value from a draft position standpoint, but is it a great fit for where the Raiders are at? Not sure.
Anon, why are you so enamored with Spencer Rattler? The dude is not good! He couldn't win the starting job at Oklahoma, so he threw a fit and transfered to South Carolina. He doesn't know how to read a defense as he throws it up and hopes for the best. This is seen in his passing % and TD to INT stats. He has made 1313 attempts, completed 900 for a 68.5% rating in his career. He has 77 TDs vs 32 INTs. He has had a lazy work ethic in high school and college, and will bomb in the NFL. He is the equivalent of Johnny Manziel without the hype or wins. Spencer Rattler is the same dude as Phil Jurkovec (809 att, 473 comp, 58.4%, 43 TDs, 20 INTs) or Kedon Slovis, BYU (1534 att, 989 comp, 64%, 80 TDs, 39 INTs). QB is all about wins right? At least that is what we were told with Derek Carr. If QB is all about wins, then stay away from these 3 QBs.
Jordan Travis (1078 att, 678 comp, 62.9%, 61 TDs, 27 INTs) is better prospect than Rattler, and you still have Joe Milton (649 att, 400 comp, 61.6% 37 TDs, 11 INTs), Michael Pratt (1200 att, 729 comp, 60.75%, 90 TD, 26 INT), and Carter Bradley (1027 att, 637 comp, 62%, 66 TDs, 20 INTs) are better suited than Rattler. They have the wins under their belts, Michael Pratt and Joe Milton have more upside and are more NFL ready than Rattler. Stay away!
Our OC play calling calls for a lot of 2 TE sets, and Bowers was the number 2 ranked player in the whole draft according to ESPN so at 13 it wouldn’t be a reach but unexpected. It’s not like we picked a kicker :) with some of the reaches in front of us on QB and OL I’m glad we didn’t follow suit for a reach…tho my heart was hoping for DL or CB… but can’t hate on a stud pick.
I'm confused by the Bowers pick but not upset. He's a baller and having two TEs as good as Bowers and Mayer will create opportunity for the Raiders.
2nd Round OL (C/G) looks like another baller. These guys are both reported with toughness that AP covets.
Raiders had to watch as QBs rolled off the board in the first round, then there was a run on CBs before their pick in the second round.
If Powers-Johnson is plug-n-play at either G spot, I'd concede the Raiders had a pretty start to this draft. PJ could also be the Raiders future at center. That's where he excelled in college.
To Raidernation,
Al Anon-
We got a good OL but not a RT(?). I can't get too down on these picks but they are looking like they're not going to worry about the D but build a decent O and look for their QB, RB and RT later.
The Raiders are getting good players just the wrong ones so far. Oh no!, this was an outstanding pick! but we could've found a good RT, DT or CB too.
BTW Aussie, teams have drafted kickers in the 1st round and had success.
Ray Guy is a HOF'er.
C-Bass is one of the best kickers in NFL history.
Saints didn't do so well with Texas U., kicker drafted in the 1st round in the late 70's but Al wasn't afraid to draft a kicker in the 1st round.
If we could just find a QB that could get this team moving!- Hey, what about TP2,
The one thing being ignored is our D! If you think Bowers and Minshew are gonna worry K.C. or outscore Denver you're not looking at the AFC West! the Raiders are building the O up but they aren't doing much for the defense. We didn't pick a D player yet and we really are hurting at CB and LB. We didn't bring in a lot of free agents except Wilkins and he has to be a 3 down player like Crosby because the Raiders didn't bring in veterans or draft DL to let these guys rest and come in on passing downs. They have to win with D if they're going to make a playoff run. They need to find some good D players while they're building their O, they can take some picks for the D too.
Is our new O lineman a Jim Otto doppelgänger ??? :)
No, there are no Otto's, Upshaws, Shells or Wisnewski's in this draft! maybe-, maybe not I won't say some of these guys won't become stars. Maybe some of them will be HOF'er some may be pro bowlers who knows? But I do know the Raiders should try to find the DBs', DL's and special teams that they are famous for. Maybe they can win more games and motivate players if they try rebuilding those units they are doing very good with the OL!
Whats with the HBCU and the NFL!? is it me or has the NFL totally started ignoring it? I think there's some elite players in the HBCU and for the first time in over 50 years the NFL is completely ignoring it! Wow! do you think something is wrong with the HBCU!?
Raidernation
Steelers 70's
K.C. 60s-70s'
Bears 70s'-80s'
Raiders 60s'
Lions 70s'
Raidernation! don't you think that if every other team in the NFL ignores the HBCU that the Raiders should steal the gold and gems?
What is going on anyway? They don't think any NFL level guys are there?
Many good HBCU players are being ignored and going to the UFL and CFL instead because NFL teams aren't drafting them! go ahead NY and other Anon! tell me its' talent and other things. when has ANY college division in American history EVER had only one guy drafted in one draft? And I've seen a lot of divisions in their thin/ worst of times when it came to pro talent over the years but NEVER had any of them only had one player drafted(the Patriots drafted a HBCU DB after all other players weren't drafted) something IS going on!
Sticking with big guys in the trenches in Rd 3. Raiders need to add bodies to the DB room. LB and possibly a RB and/or WR.
Unless the Raiders are very high on a sleeper QB, there's no reason to waste a draft pick.
They are stacked with depth on the DL and should run with that for at least one year.
I am hoping they land Rattler today
Sandy
Raiders grab two big and physical IOL yesterday. Both excellent grabs that no draft "expert" had on the boards at their selection. Even though I don't consider myself an "expert" I did not think they'd be there either. I'm telling you now, we have 3 players drafted that PFF has graded 95, 92, and 90 respectively. Bowers will easily be an All-Pro. A good comparison to his style of play is Tony Gonzalez.
Jackson Powers-Johnson is reminiscent of Richie Incognito, and DJ Glaze is considered a steal because of his versatility. I'm not too familiar with him outside of that. He does have a good amount of potential to be excellent in the League. 3rd Round on are going to be guys who need development work.
Raiders just selected Decamerion Robinson (CB, Miss St). He ran a 4.34 40 Yard in the combine (3rd fastest), he is 6'2, 188 lbs. He will make it difficult for tight window passes because of his size and length. This is a good pick here.
In non-related football news, and another proud dad moment. Last night, my son's school played for the District Championship against our rival. Caleb came in to relief pitch in the 2nd with 2 out, bases loaded, and already down 5-0. He pitched the rest of the game, and at one point was down 7-1. Our team rallied back and won 9-7 and his school is District Champs for the first time in 13 years for baseball (Karnes City High School, TX 3A, Region 4, District 27). If you know anything about Region 4 in Texas Baseball, it is one of the toughest in the country. A couple teams we will probably face are Sinton and Hondo. Sinton had 3 players drafted by the MLB last season, and one is already in AAA. Hondo currently has the #3 pitcher in the nation.
My son's stat line from last night: 5-1/3 Innings, 3 hits, 2 BBs, 13 K's, 2 unearned runs. He is a sophomore who throws 82-83 MPH. Like I said, proud dad moment.
Arthur Whittington, RB, died at 68 years old.
A little small for a RB he was a very good special team'er and had a chance to play in the '80 super bowl against the Eagles. He played either before or with Eric Dickerson and Craig James at SMU. He was drafted two or three year after the Raiders super bowl season '76.
He was never a starter but was one of the best special team'ers on the team in the 70's. He had some good runs as a back up RB but I don't know if he ever started a game. He later was seen on the sidelines maybe being a assistant coach in the 80s'. He was a very good player for the Raiders and probably one of those guys Al liked because of special teams talent/ help maybe Al thought he was a star college RB- maybe too small to start in NFL but might have speed- and might be another Tony Dorsett or Joe Washington. He was on their '80 super bowl team.
RIP,
Arthur Whittington.
Have to say, I was pleased that the Raiders showed discipline and didn't reach for a QB that they didn't feel gave them an upgrade. QBs rolled off the board before the Raiders had a pick, and I'd guess they made a reasonable effort to trade up, but the price was too much.
They grabbed the kid from Georgia for sheer value, then remained focused on the roster through the remainder of the draft. I have no idea how good each pick was, so I can't opine on the quality of any single pick but, as a whole, it looks like the Raiders attacked their needs.
Of course, time will tell but Telesco gave himself a save by drafting a baller first.
Also, Powers-Johnson sounds badass. I think I heard or read (grabbing any media I could get during the draft) that he didn't give up a single sack in college, and that he blows strength measurements off the charts.
It's a little fuzzy for me after that. I only see position choices, which look measured.
One more observation, the Raiders signed a lot of undrafted players immediately after the draft. That's the fastest turnaround on that process that I can remember. The group is heavy in the trenches (no pun intended) but includes a QB and three WRs.
Somebody almost always rises up the ranks to make the roster from undrafted players.
Raiders QBs
Recently signed undrafted FA QB Carter Bradley is son of Gus Bradley, Raiders former DC.
Bradley, the QB, comes with notable football pedigree.
I imagine some fans are upset with the last regime for letting Carr get away.
Others are upset with current regime for not being more aggressive in free agency and/or the draft.
Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins were there for the taking, as well as Justin Fields, who Getsy coached... but has been demoted to backup role.
Kirk Cousins is the most overpaid QB in the NFL. Wilson would have been a good deal, but was he a smart choice? Meh!
Raiders are at least partly the victim of circumstance. The draft just did not fall to the Raiders. There's nothing we can say to change that perspective. 2-3 second-tier QBs were already off the board by the Raiders pick at #13. And it would have been stupid to mortgage the future unless they were completely confident in their choice.
So we're stuck with Minshew and O'Connell for at least one year. IMO, with a solid defense, either QB is capable to leading the Raiders into the playoffs. That's more than Derek Carr did for us, but he did not have a solid defense... probably still doesn't.
Clearly, QB will need to be re-evaluated and possibly revisited in FA/draft again next year!
NY,
I am excited about the UDFA Carter Bradley. I think this kid is going to surprise people.
At the same time, I am also glad the Raiders did not go after a QB in the draft. Watching AOC's college film from a few years ago, you can tell that he was hindered by Josh McDaniels and Bo Hardegree; and wasn't able to utilize his talents.
He was a mobile QB in college, and did not leave the pocket last season with the Raiders. Will that change this year? I hope so. I hope they game plan to his strengths. To be honest, AOC in college looked like an early Derek Carr before he broke his twig against the Colts. We saw his ability to throw down field last season, but that was about it. Mayer did not do him any favors last season as a TE, and I'm hopeful with Bowers and Mayer being on the field at the same time to open up opportunities that will open up other routes (Davante long).
A lot of people think Minshew is going to tear the starting job away from AOC. I think he will give good competition, but if they utilize and gameplan to AOC's strength; everyone will see a different AOC from last season.
AOC was not a mobile qb in college not even close. Sandy
He wasn't Randall Cunningham or Michael Vick; but he wasn't a statue in the pocket like Josh McDumdum or Bo Hardegree wanted him to be either. He moved around, he did rush the ball some, and he extended the pocked and plays with his legs.
Grades for AFC West and NFC West:
Raiders have three rookie OLs and bought in a veteran OG in free agency.
Raiders vs. Denver: The Broncos had a great draft! why? they added to their pass rush and secondary! After trading for QB Z. Wilson(NYJ) they drafted B. Nix(Oregon).
They drafted DE J. Ellis and added some DBs in the draft! They found WR T. Frankin(Oregon) who may be a steal and a star and that could help the offense a lot. They also, drafted some DBs and that may help them too.
Coach Peyton will let Wilson prove himself but if he doesn't win the job he'll use Nix. But the Broncos depend on defense!
The Broncos will use rookie Ellis with their underrated pass rush to challenge L.V.'s young OL! L.V.'s QBs will need time to find their receivers. Broncos' usually have good cover LBs so it might not be easy for L.V. TEs' to get open. But Bowers might be a huge problem for them. L.V. didn't draft DLs or cover LBs but did get CBs'. they'll have to take on Broncos' receivers. Broncos have young receivers so L.V. may have a chance against them. Raiders DL will have to shut down the run if L.V. wants to beat the Broncos.
LAC: They rebuilt their OL too but only needed to fix one postion(RT). They will have to depend on D if they're gonna make the playoffs. They drafted L. McConkey but didn't really go shopping for a load of WRs.
The Raiders are almost a complete O and the LAC defense is good not great but they have an outstanding pass rush. The Raiders' D would have a chance with the Chargers rebuilding their receiving area. I think L.V. has the edge over LACs.
K.C.: they have the stars on O and usually whip up on L.V. but they are rebuilding their OL. but with their talent and rookie WR with track speed it looks like K.C. is again a SB contender. The Raiders' would have to have a big time pass rush to stop this O. The K.C. D has holes but still they have pass rushers and going against a rebuilt young OL they have a good chance to beat L.V.
The new Raiders again did a good job in the draft but they didn't get another DL and top DBs to help win games. So, it'll take a O that OL is jelling and the starting QB has a huge year. Their pass rush/ D will have it easier if the O can do that if not, the D will have to win for them if they want to win the division. With K.C.'s O, and LACs' and Denver's D it will be tough for L.V. to make the playoffs in '24.
Minshew and O'Connell with battle it out, and the best man wins. My money is on Minshew, but I only want what's best for the team.
Bigger concern, for me, is that we have no idea what impact Luke Getsy brings to the competition. Being honest, I'm concerned about Getsy's playcalling ability. The Bears did not have a good offense with him calling plays. We can dissect the causes but I'm pretty sure Getsy deserves some blame.
The Raiders ability to win games rests mostly on Getsy's shoulders. The defense will figure out their role.
"The new Raiders again did a good job in the draft but they didn't get another DL and top DBs to help win games."
Huh?
Crosby, Wilkins, Koonce, Wilson, Jenkins, Adams are all locks. Which one of these guys are you desperate to replace?
You would draft early round DL for depth?? Did you not see that the Raiders signed 5 defensive linemen after the draft?
Of all the positions you might think the Raiders "need...," DL is perhaps the least needy.
AOC college rushing stat 95 rushes for negative 500 yards. Sandy
Ummmmm.....one year(half year/ few game) wonders haven't been winners for the Raiders!
M. Koonce: he finally broke out but that was late in the season. I hope he has grown and is getting better but those 8 sacks may be just a flash and not something that will keep going. They could've tried to get an extra pick and picked another DE/ edge like J. Ellis(Utah) he may be a star for Denver, Khalid Duke(Kansas), V. Booker even one of the Murphy brothers(Gabriel and his brother, UCLA) to help M. Crosby and Wilkins.
Wilson: hasn't shown a lot, another player that came on late in the season. I think I heard he had an injury? he doesn't have to be a star, just pressure the QB! but we've had issues drafting CBs and DE/ edge rushers so we'll have to see if Wilson can get better this year, he has the talent and if the Raiders made him play with an injury they're showing the same neglect and lack of good management of players that the new regimes did.
Jenkins?: a good player but the Raiders once again passed on DTs' in the draft when this team hasn't had a lot of success finding a star player. Jenkins has played well but it would've been huge if they'd drafted a pass rushing DT like Hall or Newton.
DT? Benedict College's L. Denelus had 48 sacks in the HBCU, B. Fisk or Hall(Ohio St.) might make the DL even better.
CB?: T. Franklin(Den.), X. Worthy(K.C.) and L. McConkey(LACs) all are rookie star WRs' and the Raiders decided to draft an elite TE, that's great but they could've had a top OT or elite CB! now, its up to the DL to help us win because we have young vets and now, a lot of rookie DBs to learn to play in the NFL! We will need our pass rush to be dominant this year to beat the teams in our division.
NY, really? you think this team is spending and well built? dude...they made good moves then make strange/ questionable ones. they have stars but its' a lot of gaps and lack of depth that is the issue and you need to stop trying to make this a small project to rebuild this team and defending Raiders' conservative/ tight wallet and slow moving front office
You act like every move the Raiders make has to be quintessential (and equally ridiculous, that every move Al made was quintessential). That's absurd on its face.
Like every team, the Raiders draft board was fluid. They were competing with 31 other teams in free agency and the draft. Besides their top pick (for value!), every pick was a critical need on their roster. Their undrafted free agents bolstered their need for depth at key positions, like D-line.
As for the current D-line, I seem to remember you were pimpin' Jerry Tillery as the next coming of Aaron Donald. Tillery sucks! If he was any good, he'd still be a Raider. Jenkins and Adams took over for Nichols and Tillery last year, and the Raiders D-line improved immensely.
You still don't get it!
You're busy looking for shiny objects. That's not who the Raiders are anymore.
D.J. Hayden was a good DB, he had will power he was a college star and top NFL hopeful when he was injured in practice and spent time in the hospital. he almost died and seen his sports career endend but he got well. still not fully healed he was rehabbing but his football career was in trouble or he might have to wait to get picked in lower rounds of the NFL draft. but surprisingly the Oakland Raiders drafted him in the 1st round of the '13 draft. Reggie McKenzie and the Raiders took a chance on him. H
He first had to get fully well he was small but not too small and had outstanding speed. He never became a star but was a decent DB. he played o.k.-good for the Raiders but never really became the star they expected. he later left Oakland in free agency.
He also played for Jacksonville and had a good career. he started and played back up in the NFL for Jacksonville.
D.J. Hayden was a decent NFL player not a great one who played for the Raiders and other NFL teams. he did have good games and played in the NFL for a good period of time. he was a fighter, he fought his way back from a bad injury, rehab and to play in the NFL. he had to deal with injuries, NFL practice/ workouts and trying to get well from his bad injury and fought to be a good player in the NFL. he fought to get well, stay healthy and have a decent NFL career. he was fighter and that may not make the critics cry but it is part of his memory and makes him one of the best NFL guys ever.
RIP
DJ Hayden!
Another shiny object. That's exactly what has ailed the Raiders for decades. I'm sure Hayden was a good kid, but he had just experienced a life-threatening injury and the Raiders selected him with their #1 pick, without full knowledge of his injury or understanding if he could make a full recovery.
We could go through Raiders draft history and find several more stupid decisions that have held the franchise back for a generation or longer.
This year, the common thread is value. Value is the opposite of what you get when you draft an injured player with a high first round pick or reach for a player in the 1st round who falls to the second or third round on everyone else's board.
The Raiders have been stupid for too long. Their record more than supports that claim.
They finally bucked the trend. Will that change their luck? I don't know, but at least they stepped away from insanity.
To Raidernation,
Al Anon-
J. Ellis, Broncos/ big time steal! the Broncos are one of the best developers of pass rushers in the NFL and Ellis might be another star.
D.J. Devenshire, Raiders/ not a steal but a guy who might play much better than his draft spot.
T. Eichenburg, Raiders/ the Raiders need more LBs' Spillane is the starter and I don't know if they want Eichenburg playing OLB but he might help them this year.
C. Abrams-Draine, Broncos/ a good pick they need DBs' and if they find some shut down CBs' their pass rush may be even better.
Offense:
T. Franklin, Broncos/ can be a dangerous/ electrifying player but I think he'd be better as a no. #3 WR. the Raiders need their young DBs' to play well to help make the playoffs.
D. Vele, Broncos/ I think Seve may be more game ready than Franklin because he's older and has good size. he may be able to be a full time starter in the Broncos' system.
B. Bowers, Raiders/ huge pick! could be another T. Kelce! changes the Raiders' game plan and adds a huge play maker to their system.
X. Worthy, K.C./ Wow! this is the biggest pick in the AFC West! he can change a game in a few plays! K.C. can strike from anywhere on the field now!
J. Powers-Johnson, Raiders/ big time OL can play center or guard.
J. Alt, Chargers/ very good OL can play left or right tackle.
L. McConkey, LACs/ it will take Harbuagh another year to build his team. the receiving isn't there yet but a guy like McConkey is a nice pick. he will make it easier for Herbert to move the offense.
Kingsly S., K.C./ if they can coach him up and work with/ on his game he may become a very good OT.
J. Wiley, K.C./ a good college TE. he may get a chance to play with one of the best TEs' in the NFL. he may be the guy makes the TEs even better.
Well, the Raiders have some good offensive players but they had issues with the D. they did get some DBs but we'll have to wait to see if they are starters/ good players.
but offensively the rookies looking good are with Denver; some good WRs who should help them. they may be close to making a playoff run if they can get their QBs' to play well this year. the LACs' got some help on the OL but maybe should've drafted other WRs' or Bowers but they got a top OT but it was a questionable pick since they might make him a RT. McConkey was a good pick but they need more O players. I think they're rebuilding and have good players but not enough, it'll take a year for a playoff run. K.C. hit it big! they went for speed and found gold! they got a TE but I don't know much about him. they can make another playoff run with that O and now with a play maker to give them more ways to win. X. Worthy can be used as a deep threat/ other ways and that helps K.C.
The D's got some players. The Raiders got DBs' and a LB. But LACs' did very well they got a lot of players but it will be awhile before they jel and make a playoff run, K.C. was about offense but they have a good D and the DBs' they drafted could help too. Denver got an edge/ DE and he might help them stop offenses this year. they need another pass rusher because they usually have one but its' hasn't been as good as in the past. they lost a lot of star DLs and DBs' and have young guys they have to work on/ with to reload/ rebuild or help their D.
Winners in the AFC West:
Offensive Rookies: K.C.
Defensive Rookies: Denver
The Raiders were second behind K.C. they drafted Bowers and Powers-Johnson. but K.C. drafter Worthy and Kingsley S. and that helps them be a playoff team.
Denver drafted Ellis and some DBs'. LACs' were 2nd for defensive rookies and L.V. was 3rd. LAC got a lot of D rookies but its' more of a rebuild/ reload. I hope L.V.'s DBs are as good as Denver's. Maybe L.V.'s DBs' will play well enough to help them win, maybe one of them may be a star and maybe LACs' got lots of D picks and Denver has good D rookies but our rookies will play like vets, maybe one will be a star.
Denver has new coaching as of last year. How can you say they're "one of the best at developing pass rush"? Based on what?
Nobody has played a snap and you have the Raiders at the bottom. You don't see nor understand who/what AP wants the Raiders to be. You only see shiny objects. Your takes read like you expected the Raiders to have unlimited resources with no competition at signing or selecting the players they need to fill their roster.
Raiders don't get 7 first round picks.
Perhaps you could recognize the Raiders took a new approach this year.
They took a value pick #1, however, Bowers has the attributes which AP and the Raiders now covet, like football acumen, toughness, high motor, etc. They selected players who have commitment and a little "nasty" in their approach to football.
You just see shiny objects... apparently, on other teams.
The Donkeys did not have a good draft. Most ex-NFL players are giving the Donkeys and Falcons a D for their drafts; especially when it comes to Penix and Nix's first round selection. Denver did not out draft the Raiders, and you can read their comments as to why. Now mediots like Kiper give them high grades, but Kiper is the biggest joke in the game. Nobody in the League respects this guy, and that started with his first ever draft where he heckled a coach in an interview for his pick, and the coach shut him down.
I don't buy the "Draft Grade" hype, it is all based on speculation. One word describes all the players the Raiders selected in the draft, and that word is ... gritty. This draft reminds me a lot of the 2014 draft (Mack, Carr, Gabe Jackson). AP is bringing in an O-Line that is comparable to 2016 (Hudson, G Jackson, K Osemele, D Penn, A Howard). These guys were a hybrid of power/zone blocking, and it looks like with our current O-line, and who we drafted, AP is going that direction again. Trey Taylor has the Jack Jones mentality and vibe at Safety. DeCamerion Richardson is a 6'2, 195 lbs, CB that will be a big presence in the slot/nickel that will make it difficult for WR/TEs. Dylan Laube is a gritty, downhill RB who will power his way for yards, especially short yardage. I'm excited to see how AP and stafff put this together, and yes, NY, they all are a little "nasty"; the Raider way. What does AP say? Ill-intent, violence, physicality, pain! Just Win, Baby!
To NY Raider and Raider Nate,
The reason IMO...Denver is STILL good at building DLs' and thank you, coach Peyton just got there, I didn't know they had a new staff, It only makes sense he got his own staff. but IMO...he probably got good coaches who know how to build a good DL, IMO...coach Peyton probably looked for guys who can coach up a DL, if not, and you're right, still-,their D may be a good one.
they couldn't get elite need players because they were gone?: I never said they could control who they could draft! I said they did a good thing.., just at the wrong unit(TE). L.V. took an elite player but they took a top TE last year! we passed on top CBs' and OTs'.
What may the situation in the AFC West:
The LACs' still have that bolt on their helmets to mean high scoring, exciting offense and always looks for receivers! the Broncos STILL puts defense above almost everything else, remember the 'Orange Crush'? they got two QBs' and that's another one of their traditions, they usually get a veteran QB, sometimes a star vet, and try to help him with a good D. but they made sure they picked a pass rusher and some DBs to bring back their D. K.C. is obsessed with mismatch players, projects(?) and.., here it comes!.......SPEEEEEEEED! I thought that was a quick way to lose? maybe that only applied to Al? K.C. is big, fast, will pick projects/ problem players and they're elite! I personally don't see much difference between say- Hill and Worthy(k.C.) vs. DMAC and Ford! except Reid(K.C.) uses his speed guys and Reggie's got rid of his.
Yea, K.C. and Denver are good teams and LACs are rebuilding. IMO...we're the 3rd best in the AFC West but with some work we could move to no. #2. Denvers' QB situation needs to get worked out and we need our young DBs' to play well and we need K.C. to have problems jelling on the OL and to lose some games and we might have a chance to make the playoffs.
NY and Raider Nate be loyal, excited and pumped for '24 but lets not let the media/ NFL hype them before we look at them.
Nate, our friend only likes shiny objects. Therefore, it's easy for him to mischaracterize the Raiders draft, which is filled with players who checked AP's boxes. Football acumen! High motor! Leadership! Warriors! Dedicated to their craft!
Al Anon doesn't understand who the Raiders are or have become. The Raiders picks don't make sense to him because they might not grade well with Combine measurements.
To suggest the Broncos, under new coaching, know how to develop edge rushers is completely uninformed. Again, based on what? Just because Sean Payton is their coach? Broncos with Russell Wilson at QB did worse than the Raiders, who fired their HC.
I'm sure Payton will find some success, but why would a Raiders fan go out on a limb to suggest something exceptional of them that has NOT been proven? The Broncos may have wasted a pick on Bo Nix. We'll find out.
The Chargers lost Keenan Allen and Mike Williams! There's no WR in the NFL draft that can make up for that. Period!
KC might have hit on a WR, and that will be a strength of the draft for Mahomes, but they did not draft anyone that matches Brock Bowers abilities.
Powers-Johnson cried when he found out the Raiders drafted him. This kid didn't give up a sack in college and he was graded with the most upper body strength over a span of many drafts. Powers-Johnson, Bowers, Laube and Eichenberg will all bleed silver and black for the Raiders.
Dylan Laube? Go listen to his sound bites about becoming a Raider. He's a dog and ready to battle.
The Raiders are NO LONGER about shiny objects, like our friend so desperately wants from them. They are warriors preparing for battle. The sooner he understands and embraces that, the sooner he can let go of his shiny object mentality and enjoy a new era of Raiders football.
IMO, Tom Telesco shifted his philosophy and made this draft all about Antonio Pierce and his vision. We don't know until we see the results, but it was clearly a colaberative effort.
Raiders are becoming bad asses, and Al Anon doesn't like it. Which tells me he doesn't know who Al Davis really was.
I'm in! I plan to thoroughly enjoy watching the Raiders grow into their new identity.
I know the problem is that the majority of fans (myself included) was hoping for a QB, based again on what Raiders' Inside reporters were speculating and reporting. There was talk about moving up to get Jayden Daniels. There was talk that some of these QBs would fall in the second round, and we would strike there.
After the draft, Telesco made it clear they had no plan to trade up for a QB and weren't interested in a QB after the top 3. But who did they get? Carter Bradley QB, South Alabama) as a UDFA. Bradley is 6'3, 216 lbs, is the son of Gus Bradley, passed for 8,373 yards, 58.7%, 61 TDs, 27 INTs in his collegiate career at Toledo and South Alabama. This last year, he was ranked in the top 50 NCAA QBs with a 151.3 QB Rating. He should have been drafted, but was a great UDFA pick up. AOC is switching to #12. I think you are going to see a different QB here than what we did last season. He will move the pocket, and will not be a stoic QB the way McDaniels and Hardegree wanted him to be. Gardner Minshew will give him competition for the starting job, but it is his to lose. Ill-intent, violence, physicality, pain! Just Win, Baby!
I like the Bowers pick. Having two pass catching TE's will really help in red zone, and goal line situations.
Most of the Qb's drafted will end up sucking anyway. A couple will be good, but who knows which ones.
If the 9ers can make the awful Brock Purdy look good by surrounding him with talent, maybe it works for the Raiders too.
No NY,
going out on a limb would be listening to media hyping another new regime on us.
AP and some of the player did well late last year but his is a whole season and everybody in the AFC West got something us and them.
Is it just me or did the Raiders even try to interview an elite HC? no, they didn't we hired a fired GM! Al was a success when he was hired!
Bowers and Worthy?: we have a great pick but K.C. just added another play maker to their already electrifying O. with Mahomes and Co. this may be a super bowl move. we'll need some time but we may have a super star and be able to move the ball and score points in the future. the Raiders will be able to excite and fly past teams in the short passing game but we need help to make the playoffs.
what they got!:
J. Harbaugh/ he took S.F. to a SB and won an NCAA Championship. he is working for the team that hired Al(2nd, Colts 1st). he is rebuilding the Chargers and if he wants to add some old Raiders' culture(attitude, size and speed) its' going be fun for fans but tougher for us/ the AFC West.
S. Peyton and J. Ellis/ Peyton is a very good HC and he might build a contender. Ellis may help the DL get better, he brings more pass rush to it. they drafted for O and Peyton wants a star QB but they usually win with D.
X. Worthy and Kingsley S./ Well, they got two good players and they are a contender. do they have a play maker in Worthy? will they put him in games to be a problem? is he another T. Hill? is this team an AFC contender again? did they draft a future LT and a star WR? they love speed! why are they using speed? I thought Al Davis ruined the Raiders with it?
what we got!
A.P.
some good defensive coaches
Bowers and Powers-Johnson
what they have:
Denver/ HC, DBs', LBs' and DL.
LACs/ HC, DL and OL.
KC/ WRs, TEs, HC, RBs, STs and DL
What we have:
STs, WRs, TEs and DL
Nate, Telesco is not telling media everything. He even said as much. I believe they looked long and hard at QBs in the draft and when they couldn't get Daniels they probably hoped Penix would fall to them, but he didn't.
There were 6 QBs drafted before the Raiders pick. That clearly forced the Raiders to shift.
What Telesco said, and it made sense to me, was that there was no QB in the draft after the top choices who the Raiders felt was an upgrade (now or in the future) to the two they had.
After the Bowers "value" pick, the Raiders attacked their needs.
Al Anon, still pimping everyone else's draft and coaches.
What amazes me the most about your posts is how you can take hindsight and spin it until it's unrecognizable. Like somehow the Raiders were great when they clearly weren't, but now the Raiders are going to be bad when they are clearly making strides.
Your knack for being wrong (IMO) gives me more hope than I already had.
Thank you!
NY Raider,
Oh, Telesco did very good, not great in his first Raiders' draft. I admit that and I'm happy about it.
But I don't understand how you can stick with the "THIS TIME!" attitude about these new regimes or "we're getting better!" claims.
A.P. is a good coach, we don't know how good or bad yet! but how did we become so sure of an interim coach that we didn't interview any of the 4 elite HCs'(Bellichick, Harbaugh, Peyton and Saban)?
Minshew and AOC vs. Nix and Wilson, Mahomes and Hebert? now, we might have a good/ two good QBs out of Minshew and AOC but I think if we're talking playoffs it'll be the D that gets us there.
Denver got QBs' then is trying to rebuild their D.
K.C. reloaded and added speed.
LACs' are rebuilding and are trying to get help for their QB, they could've made some better picks but they did get rid of a lot of guys and are trying to fill holes.
We did a good job and this time we hired an experienced GM. but we also passed on some very good D players. our front office is new its' not good or bad yet, we have to wait and see, you're right about that! but we also should ask question like
why didn't they get more D help in free agency knowing our O is being rebuilt?
they did a great job with Bowers and then need picks for the OL, but after that why didn't they look for more DL help? why didn't they trade for more draft picks to pick D players?
why did it take over ten years to realize they needed an experienced GM? and was Telesco even being looked at before he was fired for an interview.
why didn't they even interview Harbaugh and Peyton before hiring A.P. as HC?
Those things may seem petty or small issues but we haven't really made moves to make us look like we're trying to change the culture much until Telesco came and Bowers was drafted and that was good it was different but we still missed chances to get more.
No, we aren't yet a good team and we have a lot of work to do and we don't need media hype to make us think we're doing more than we really are.
We are rebuilding on O and we are looking at what we got from the draft but we also are STILL making the same new regime mistakes and being cheap and passing on top FAs'.
The AFC West is much tougher and they did good, not all great in the draft and are building good teams some went for O some for D and some did good in both area. we need to do very good to beat them. so don't go talking about how good we are and how wrong/ stuck in the past I am- until you know hype from facts and see how good and bad we are and look at and the AFC West and where they're at too and what each team is.
FOS Anon. You say… so don't go talking about how good we are and how wrong/ stuck in the past I am- until you know hype from facts and see how good and bad we are and look at and the AFC West and where they're at too and what each team is.
I kinda know Shite from Shinola and know which you’re full of. Complaining about a teams make up before a preseason game has even been play is a lesson in futility,
our first round pick landing anywhere else in the AFC west is a nightmare situation for us! Bowers is a stud and causes match up issues across the board. As for hiring AP… he didn’t have the most flash w-L stats the second half when he took over, but he did have his team motivated and they beat everyone in the AFC West while he was coach,
also the D started hitting its stride and should continue to improve with no major changes to the staff happening.
Now for our rookie QB getting thrown into a starting roll in the middle of the season where everyone in your division is licking their chops to end you and then holding your own is a testament to the gumption that young man is showing. Only CJ Stroud showed out better as a rookie last year, we also saw a record number of points in a game by any Raiders team scored… that’s something. We have seen good and bad last year, time to let this coach go out and show us.
They added speed they added size and nasty in the draft and addressed every spot except QB in the draft. What more can we ask for from a draft? Now comes training camp and then cuts… who knows we may add another surprise or not… we just have to wait and see
Post a Comment
<< Home