Welcome Jack Del Rio
I think I'm down with Jack Del Rio as our new head coach.
Look at this murderer's row since 2006: Shell II, Kiffin, Cable, Jackson, Allen (and Sparano, if you want to get technical). By those standards, Del Rio is an upgrade.
Now, those standards are pretty low, which is why I have no doubt that Del Rio is an upgrade. But how much of an upgrade? Hard to say at this point, but hey, at least the arrow is pointing up.
I don't necessarily consider it an advantage that Del Rio is an East Bay native who rooted for the Raiders back in his youth. I'm over this sentimentality business with the Raiders. It doesn't matter come gametime. An elite coach will find a way to win, ties or no ties.
There's a bit of "deja vu" with this as well, as it's our second time in a row that we've hired a Broncos defensive coordinator as our head coach.
That said, Del Rio brings a bit of gravitas to the proceedings. Not necessarily a lot, but at least some. He's had tenure as a head coach, has been to the playoffs, and is still relatively young. There are worse starting points.
The Raiders' interviewing process seemed a little strange to me. If the reports are true, there wasn't much consistency to the various interviews, and it's hard to say how involved Reggie McKenzie was in the Del Rio hiring. We do know that Reggie didn't tag along on Mark Davis's trip to Hooters after the big Del Rio interview.
The choice of coordinators will be key. Trestman could be a good grab, his stock is low, but he's known as a cerebral quarterback guru. In the wake of his Cutler-hastened exit from the Bears, it's easy to forget just how well he had Josh McCown playing last year.
Anyhow, let's see how this plays out. This isn't the most sexy selection, but it seems to be a solid one.
I've given up on the Raiders taking quick, bold, innovative strikes toward a swift turnaround. They don't seem very capable of that, it's apparently not in the organizational nature.
But if they're going to plod along, it seems to me that they're plodding in the right direction: upward.
Look at this murderer's row since 2006: Shell II, Kiffin, Cable, Jackson, Allen (and Sparano, if you want to get technical). By those standards, Del Rio is an upgrade.
Now, those standards are pretty low, which is why I have no doubt that Del Rio is an upgrade. But how much of an upgrade? Hard to say at this point, but hey, at least the arrow is pointing up.
I don't necessarily consider it an advantage that Del Rio is an East Bay native who rooted for the Raiders back in his youth. I'm over this sentimentality business with the Raiders. It doesn't matter come gametime. An elite coach will find a way to win, ties or no ties.
There's a bit of "deja vu" with this as well, as it's our second time in a row that we've hired a Broncos defensive coordinator as our head coach.
That said, Del Rio brings a bit of gravitas to the proceedings. Not necessarily a lot, but at least some. He's had tenure as a head coach, has been to the playoffs, and is still relatively young. There are worse starting points.
The Raiders' interviewing process seemed a little strange to me. If the reports are true, there wasn't much consistency to the various interviews, and it's hard to say how involved Reggie McKenzie was in the Del Rio hiring. We do know that Reggie didn't tag along on Mark Davis's trip to Hooters after the big Del Rio interview.
The choice of coordinators will be key. Trestman could be a good grab, his stock is low, but he's known as a cerebral quarterback guru. In the wake of his Cutler-hastened exit from the Bears, it's easy to forget just how well he had Josh McCown playing last year.
Anyhow, let's see how this plays out. This isn't the most sexy selection, but it seems to be a solid one.
I've given up on the Raiders taking quick, bold, innovative strikes toward a swift turnaround. They don't seem very capable of that, it's apparently not in the organizational nature.
But if they're going to plod along, it seems to me that they're plodding in the right direction: upward.
posted by Raider Take at 7:56 PM
97 Comments:
I think Sandy said it best. Raiders are always picking from the B or C list.
B/C level GM's. B/C level coaches. B/C level free agents.
The A list always off limits to the Raiders.
So now we are told Del Rio is the best HC available from the B list. We are suppose to get excited. Yipeeee, Horaaay!!!
I just think the problem is that Mark Davis is a D level owner. He seems to want to own the Donkos, more then the Raiders.
So it appears that John Madden lobbied hard for Del Rio. I guess when Madden is not around anymore, Art Shell will sit in on meetings with M. Davis. And so it goes for the Oakland Waiters.
The whole process just leaves a bad taste. Not minty, to say the least.
I for one am happy. It's not a great pick, but I don't think there was much left after Harbaugh or Chucky.
While I agree that growing up a fan doesn't mean you're a great fit, I do think for the Raiders it might be a little different. If you entertain the idea that the Raiders are the laughing stock of the league, then being the head coach could be to that of grabbing the best looking barfly at last call. But Jack knows the history and what this team means to this town and it's blue collard citizens. So perhaps in this instance it might mean something.
It's really going to come down to who the coordinators are. Al never felt the need to spend in this area, and if Mark-nute Bol decides to throw more money in this area we just might have a chance at getting better.
Cheers to not being the laughing stock anymore.
AngelicRaider
According to RT and his minions.....John Madden is making the decisions, Mark has completely excluded Reggie from the process and now feels he is in a better position to call the shots than Reggie?
What if it nets 2 good coordinators? I swear, this place will cry about anything.
AND, I guess Reggie has taken his whipping and will put his tail between his legs and try to run a draft? Run Free Agency? Would you? If you had been treated the way this site CLAIMS REGGIE has been treated?
The table had to be set, the Org had to show stability before good candidates would coach in Oakland. Then when the coaches are established, a higher grade of FA's will be available because now Oakland is no longer the shithole. Told you guys this a long time ago, you mocked me as usual.
Going along as planned, have a HC that can coach and wants TO BE IN OAKLAND. Good chance a good grade at OC/DC will be hired as well, that want to be in OAKLAND.
There is NO CHANCE good coaches would come into an unstable situation that this site portraits. It wouldn't happen....so how do you explain these names being linked to Oakland now? Because Mark wants to spend money?
Now the players will come....and the draft will net this team more youth to the core. IT's HOW IT HAD TO BE BUILT...no shortcuts were available.....just had to suck it up and wait it out....now the fruits will begin to show.......it ain't rocket science.
I am a Raider
Once again, the hiring process was abbreviated. But this time it seemed disjointed as well, with interviews being conducted haphazardly by different individuals.
In the end, it’s apparent that Mark Davis made this decision, as he’s the one who flew coach (pun intended) to Denver and brought Del Rio back for a second interview. Davis clearly lost faith in McKenzie and took the process upon himself, with the counsel of Madden and a couple Hooters girls (not that there’s anything wrong with that).
Will it be the right decision? Who knows! We can try and rationalize it until we turn purple but it will play out in Ws-Ls.
Looks like the first thing Del Rio will do is hire a coordinator with ties to Atlanta. Sound familiar?
GO RAIDERS!
The thing that excites me about Del Rio is he wants to be in Oakland, grew up in Oakland, grew up a Raiders fan, and knows how to win. Coaches and players all over the League are saying the Raiders picked a solid guy who is going to turn this franchise. Is he the most exciting? Maybe not in personality, but he has a lot of respect from players and coaches. He is steady, loyal, and is a proven winner everywhere he's gone.
In the last blog post, I noted that NFL.com reported that the Raiders reached out to Ryan and Bowles, but they declined to interview. That was reported last week on the website's tag "Coaching Visit Tracker". I've tried to go back to that page and find it, but they've updated it and removed that statement, otherwise I would post the link. Ian Rappaport's name was attached to that comment.
Terrance Knighton told Arnie Stapleton (a writer in Denver), "I want to be wherever Jack is. I'll just leave it at that." So will the Raiders be adding Knighton to their defensive line? AWESOME if we do!
Del Rio is a solid pick. Not the most flashy, but the most solid. The Raiders will be a top 5 Defense in the League next year, guaranteed. Whether it is Mike Smith, Vic Fangio, Jim Schwartz, or Wade Phillips as his DC; the defense just got worlds better. Just because he's reported to have ties with Mike Smith, does not mean that is who he is targeting.
I like the report of Marc Trestman, that's a smart hire; but I think I'd rather give John DeFilippo a shot as OC. He's young, he's innovative, and he's smart. The only draw back is he's never held that position in the NFL. The Raiders want to keep him, but the Brownies are interviewing him Friday as OC. I would create a position like the Cowboys did, "Passing Coordinator" or "Assistant Offensive Coordinator" to keep him, because I think he will be a good OC.
I will say this though, watching Rex's presser yesterday as Bills HC, made me want to run through a wall. Best presser of 2015!
Del Rio has experience on his side. Hopefully, that's enough!
Interesting; Ohio State’s 3rd string QB, Cardale Jones, who just helped them win a national championship, may announce he's entering the NFL draft... mostly because he smartly wants to use his 15 minutes of fame to his advantage and doesn’t want to be stuck on the Buckeye’s bench.
If you didn't watch the game, Jones pretty much out-dualed Mariota, and was very impressive in the process.
Not sure where this kid would place in the draft, but the Raiders will need a 3rd arm to replace Schaub... preferably somebody with competitive talent to keep the Raiders well-armed.
Meanwhile, McGloin is a solid backup.
Experience is never enough to win as a Head Coach. You have to surround yourself with a staff that has the same intensity that you have. It's just not experience with Del Rio, he is cerebral. He is going to surround himself with the same type of guys, "heady" and experienced to help the talent reach the next level. I don't care if this was a Mark Davis decision, it is a strong, stable coaching decision.
The Raiders are now in the best position to go from worst to first next season, depending on who Del Rio gets on his staff. What more do we need, other than Del Rio and the Raiders to make it happen?
With all the hype around Cardale, he did display mechanical issues as to why he was a 3rd string QB. Ezekiel Elliott is why Cardale succeeded, first and foremost. Cardale showed he can throw in tight spots, but did not display good decision making abilities, and or good pre-snap reads.
I think most NFL scouts will see that, and he maybe a 6-7th round pick. To me, he is another JaMarcus in the making. Big QB, poor mechanics, poor decision making. The only difference, JaMarcus was a starter at LSU.
You know what really bothers me. After we, as fans, suffered through a 3 win season.
And, quite frankly, we have suffered through all 3 of the Mark/Reggie yrs.
And then, were led to believe that Mark Davis was very upset by the failed season. That big changes would be made this off season.
And so what happens ? Raiders sign one year lease to remain in broken down stadium.
The pitiful GM is retained.
And they swap out one Donk DC, for another, as HC.
Cal me crazy, but so far, the big change looks more like no change at all.
Looks more like Raiders are taking the, head in sand approach.
And what happens when a loser team doesn't change things ?
I'll give y'all 3 guesses.
Show proof of what you write, there is no proof that it is dysfunctional. You don't know what is going on in those meetings unless you were there. Just like you insist that the Shanahan deal was an interview without Reggie. Your theories and scenarios have proven out wrong again.
If the Front Office is being run as this site says it is.....no coach worth a shit would have signed. No Assistants worth a crap will sign....so what is happening? If it's a dysfunctional mess that this site portraits....then why are we not seeing the same results as the dysfunctional mess that WAS?
Too much Florio, Cockran, NFL Network...these guys are biased hacks who hate the Raiders and you guys act like they are ' Lords of the NFL'. Any self respecting Raiders fan wouldn't give these lowlifes the time of day....whos' team are you on?
I am a Raider
Yeah sure, WASTE another pick on a Buckeye 'QB', great call.
Don't make it so Obvious
I am a Raider
'With all the hype around Cardale, he did display mechanical issues as to why he was a 3rd string QB"
Do you mean during his run as starter or during the championship game? I don't watch much college ball but the announcers said he was very impressive with his reads during the champ game, and his performance showed it.
I really don't care if the Raiders scout the kid, and he wouldn't be worth taking early or mid-draft. I do know they need to make a decision wrt to QB depth, because re-signing Schaub would be a mistake.
Raider 00
The great Otto himself must be sick to his stomach about what is going on.
You have articulated very well a realization I came to about a month ago.
Mark Davis is the real problem. He has amazingly set the team further back each year. Seriously the financial, stadium and football side gets worse every year.
I guess he is to busy eating wings at Hooters.
Regards
Sandy
The most exciting Raider news this week was Ray Lewis dissing Tom Brady re tuck game
REgards
Sandy
@Raider-00:
A-List, B-List, C-List...
What a load of crap! On which list did you have John Madden back then? He was a defensive assistant at San Diego State before joining the Raiders. On which list was Jon Gruden? He was OC for the Eagles before joining the Raiders. Belichick before he went on to win three rings for the Pats? Coughlin before he went on to win two rings for the Giants?
There is no question that both Madden and Gruden left their Raiders stint on the A-List, right?
For me Del Rio is as good as any candidate out there, because it's almost impossible to predict the outcome of a HC hire. There are simply too much variables included in this game.
With Trestman as OC and Mike Smith or Vic Fangio as DC this could be a very solid crew.
In time we will find out which is worse; an owner with tremendous knowledge of the game who's a control freak or an owner who admittedly has no knowledge of football but makes football decisions.
"Do you mean during his run as starter or during the championship game? I don't watch much college ball but the announcers said he was very impressive with his reads during the champ game, and his performance showed it."
During the Championship game and playoffs. Yes, he did win those 3 starts. Yes, it doesn't take much to see the raw (and I mean raw) talent that he has. But he's not polished enough to enter the draft. If you didn't watch the game, he had 2 fumbles and 2 interceptions of the 5 OSU turnovers. 1 of those interceptions was not his fault but the WR's. If he were to enter the draft, I don't think he'd be drafted. Think about what would happen if Tebow and JaMarcus had a love child. Cardale would be that love child right now because he is not a polished QB. He was good enough to step in and get the job done, but that was more of a credit to Ezekiel Elliott running the ball that Cardale passing.
I bet Cardale doesn't start next year either, now that he announced he is staying.
Anon...John Madden was hired in 1967. Tom Flores was hired in 1978. Both were in house guys, that Al Davis knew very well.
Jon Gruden was considered a top OC, when hired. Although Al took a chance on a WC offense guy, who was very young. But it worked out, for a short time.
There's no question that Bill Belichick was considered the top DC in football for many years, before given a 2nd chance as HC.
You are correct. There are many variables and it's impossible to predict.
But we're here to give our opinions. And I don't believe Del Rio was even one of the top ten best DC's in NFL.
And his record as HC of the Jags, an 8 year body of work, is very underwhelming.
Let's face it. Even if Del Rio were to put his best foot forward. What will it mean ?
Raiders have an owner who is a football novice. An owner that doesn't trust his GM to hire a HC, but who will not fire that GM.
Things are pretty bad in Oakland.
The fact that Reggie is still employed is absolutely astonishing.
No coach would win with what was deemed the worst overall roster in the league last year. Del Rio, Allen...doesn't matter who the coach is. Cannot win without players.
Shrek is proof that this organization is still the joke of the entire league. Carr has an upside and Mack is a stud. Those were two picks that pretty much anyone could have made. Outside of that what has that buffoon done but stutter through press conferences and abandoned the fan base when times were bad?
People talk about all the young talent the Raiders have....really? Name me 4 pro-bowl caliber players outside of Mack.
Bryan
OO - to expand your thought, Denver had a good defense before Del Rio arrived (Allen was DC). And while Elway added (or replaced) some needed pieces, the obvious constant during that period was John Fox, who is quickly being snatched up by the Bears but who never fell in consideration for the Raiders HC vacancy.
John Fox has a history with the Davis family....just to let you know. Del Rio has a good rep among players and coaches alike.
Again, where is the proof of dysfunction? Where is the proof?
This site is nothing but troll bait....can anyone have a SERIOUS discussion about the Raiders on here?
I am a Raider
SCAR
I like the Del Rio Hire. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that after the coaching staff is assembled, that I love the Del Rio hire.
Raidertake, I am putting it out for all to see, that the Del Rio/Carr era will lead to serious runs at the superbowl. Years from now,(because I have no plans of going anywhere) I will be more then happy to see all the negative Nancys on this site doing the flip/flop, praising the Brass, or the head coach,,or maybe it will be giving the credit to someone else other then who deserves it. Jeeezuuuz, the ink isn't even dry on the contract and over half the posters are whining???
If Del Rio doesn't pan out, then I'll be on here saying that I guess I was the crazy one, and not you jokers...
Thats my take, and I'm sticking to it.
SCAR
Welcome aboard, SCAR....Raiders are on their way....been saying it for a while, just had to go through the PROCESS. Now the fruits will show what Reggie has been growing. But Reggie won't get the credit because the WHINERS say it's Mark now who has taken over, or is it John?
Anyways, SMH to these dweebs who pretend to be Raiders. They will continue to complain, ignore points that blow their BS out of the water...etc..... to try and pretend they were right.
Then when it is TOTALLY OBVIOUS that they were wrong.....they will PRETEND like they were along with the PROCESS the whole time....hypocrites, frauds....go down the line, it's what they are.
I am a Raider
Wow. You'd think the Raiders just went 13-3 instead of the other way around. The onus of proof lies with the Raiders not the fans. It's been a long time coming. And what issues did John fox have that trump issues that Shanahan had with the Raiders. That's just another fabrication from the master of make believe.
NY it may not be Harbaugh but think about it this way it sure as hell is better than Dennis Allen
have a good weekend
Sandy
The Raiders have been showing you, you aren't looking. Your fabrication is one of Mark and John calling the shots. My view is that this is how it had to come about and has been handled in the right way to get the team to this point. You on the other hand, still believe Mike Silver and Florio.
Raiders are on the verge of a complete turn around from way used to be and you dolts are still wondering if it is just like before....talk about behind the curve.
Would any of those HC'ing candidates have interviewed if they knew the Raiders were still a mess as you claim? Would Raiders be on the verge of signing some very good ASS. coaches if it was still a mess?
Your time is running out, Mr Troll, you will no longer be able to cry like a baby because it's almost here.....the Raiders are making noise again....can you hear the rumble? Of course you can't, deaf DUMB and blind, must hurt.
I am a Raider
Mike Tice will be the offensive line coach. First assistant to sign on.
They said no coaches will come to Oakland = WRONG. Table had to be set, kiddies. No coach worth a shit would have taken the job when Reg was 1st hired, it had to be setup 1st, Reggie has done that and now players, coaches, managers will want to come to Oakland....it's all unfolding, RT, why so quiet? Eating too much crow?
I am a Raider
Sandy - I'm on board with Del Rio, particularly if he hires the right assistants. He was not the Raiders first choice, so clearly they had to comprise the situation... which is understandable.
Hiring Mike Tice as OL coach is a nice start.
Mark Davis one-upped the HC hire by naming Marc Badain as team president, mostly to handle the business side, including the stadium. That was a smart move.
However, it's absolutely ridiculous for folks to suggest this was the plan all along. Firing the HC and going 3-13 is never planned.
And there's no guarantees. If we've learned anything the last 13 years, proof needs to come from results.
should read, compromise!
There's no crow on the menu here. I wasn't the one sticking to a claim that the Raiders were tanking when they were winning every other game.
Your talking points are clever, but they don't hold water. The notion that we were forced to hire DA because no one better would come here is just one example.
The Redskins, perhaps the most dysfunctional franchise in the NFL, landed Mike Shanahan after going 4-12 in 2009. Yet the next year, the Raiders could only land lowly DA and no one else after Hue Jackson went 8-8?
Baloney. DA was Reggie's guy, and one of many mistakes that have slowed down the turnaround.
Rather than acknowledge the fact that Reggie has stumbled quite a bit but that he and the organization may now be getting their act together, you have established a convenient position (unpredicted by you, by the way) that it HAD to be this way, 11 wins in three seasons with all of the documented missteps along the way.
I am not a tanker.
"Clever" is very generous, RT. Much of it is fabricated.
Dennis Allen was absolutely McKenzie's man. Jones implied in an earlier post that McKenzie went through a long process before hiring Allen.
The truth is, McKenzie hired Allen within two weeks of being hired himself, and right after he fired Jackson.
Tanking comes in many forms....just because you couldn't see it (as usual) doesn't mean it didn't happen.
If you cannot comprehend the mess that was, even now with all the info that has come forward, then you are either CLUELESS or just outright stupid.
Reggie DIDN'T have a list of candidates, like Shanahan who would have no part of the Raiders at that time, as did most coaches and players. To say this isn't true, then you are trying to reshape history.....reality is reality and the 'RT' version of it is so way off. You really are children...time to grow a set, kiddies.
Instead of acknowledging that Reggie walked in to ORGANIZATIONAL HELL for his 1st 2 years is again, a false reality. To say that ANY GM would have had it all turned around in 1 year or 2 is another false reality. Maybe 1 day you will understand, I wouldn't bet on it though....
What a Maroon
"it's absolutely ridiculous for folks to suggest this was the plan all along."
Reggie has an overall plan and of course there will be bumps along the way. If you think that this PROCESS that I explained a long time ago would not have some bumps....then again, you are either very clueless or really stupid...I would bet it's full on for both/you.
To think it would all end up in a nice tight bow after a couple years....clueless, it's what you are. Are you telling me that old roster didn't have to be BURNT? That the team should have been kept run in the same fashion and handed over to Hue?
And now it's just a clusterfuck and no one is really in charge? Is this what you are telling me? Then how come these coaches that have a good pedigree want to come to Oakland when NEVER before has this been the case? Why is that? Answer the question, or will you avoid it again?
"Reggie DIDN'T have a list of candidates, like Shanahan who would have no part of the Raiders at that time."
Is that your version, or do you have the official transcript?
Jones, maybe you should start holding yourself to the same standard of proof as you hold others.
Here are the candidates McKenzie reportedly interviewed in less than two weeks it took for him to hire Dennis Allen: Allen, Eagles offensive coordinator Marty Mornhinweg, former Miami interim coach Todd Bowles, Saints offensive coordinator Pete Carmichael Jr. and Green Bay assistants Winston Moss and Dom Capers (ESPN: Adam Schefter).
None of these guys were reported to have rejected an offer from the Raiders, nor were other candidates reportedly sought in the short time period leading up to Allen’s hire.
This is all old news, but appears to have escaped you while you bash us for remembering.
Nobody suggested McKenzie didn’t inherent a mess. Statements like that make your posts disingenuous, then you wonder why you can’t have reasonable dialogue here.
You embrace too many missteps along the so-called bumpy road and demand that we embrace them with you.
Yet, here you are still clinging to your silliest notion yet, that the Raiders tanked to secure the 4th pick in the draft.
Even if that were remotely true, don’t you think Sparano would have wanted some kind of job security to offset this potentially career-threatening scam?
I’m sure the Raiders players never got that memo.
Who, exactly, do you think gave that order and to whom? I’d love to know... I want to take them off my x-mas card list.
Then how can you claim it was supposed to be all cleaned up after year 1 or 2? Are you saying it was just a small sized mess? You are jumping to both sides of the fence and you want to talk about disingenuous?
That is some list of HC's there, 3 years ago, talk about a list of NOTHING. So who would you rather have had during that time of flux? Who do you think would have taken a roster that was thrown together with 50 million less cap space than the other teams and WON? Do we really need to go all through that again? Or do you have a memory? Selective?
They tanked some games, you better believe it, just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. All it takes is the Owner/Gm to pas the word the the HC that the foot comes off the gas. It's all it takes, the players would not even be notified.
And if you think the players didn't know the TANK was on when Jano was told to sit on a 57 YRD FG in Denver...that was all the proof you needed, but again, you refuse it because it would go along with what I have been telling you.
Tampa did it in everyone's face, are you telling me they didn't TANK? And is this the only argument RT and his minions have? Still with the TANKING? You guys are so desperate that you have to beat this horse until it has multiple deaths? Yes they tanked, yes tanking happens....NEXT.....now how bout telling me how it is so dysfunctional, yet good coaches want to come aboard?
I am a Raider
By my math, it's three full years, not 1-2 as you suggest. You want to frame this into a shorter time period because maybe that supports your assertions, but three years is all most of us thought it should take McKenzie when was hired. We are now finding out that three years is somewhat of a starting point in terms of coaches and player development (could take another 2-3 years).
Btw, if McKenzie wanted to expand that list of HC candidates, he could have extended the search. I'm sure Dennis Allen would have still be available.
The list was only as long (or short) as McKenzie wanted it to be.
"They tanked some games."
Really, Jones? With coaches and players vying for future employment and McKenzie and the Raiders organization trying to maintain respectability and credibility to bring in a new coaching staff and free agents.
Reggie and Mark knew that the coaches wouldn't be back. They wanted upgrades.
Sparano was getting paid by Mark, if Mark and Reggie came to conclusion that they wanted to take the foot off, what could Tony do? Tony was loyal to the end and that will help him in further employment = a good soldier.....as far as maintaining credibility? 4-12 twice and 3-13?
I think people around the League are smart enough (unlike yourselves) to see that the Raiders had to tear it down to build it back properly. I think people around the League understand that PROCESS.
I think they understand that NOW the Org is in a position to move forward now, where the last 2-3 years, it wasn't. It has shown it's stability that you REFUTE and this is another reason why good coaches are being discussed.
IF this ORG was still in shambles as you state....they wouldn't come to Oakland, that has been well established and now you want to change that history to? You are a fucking joke with nothing better to do than to bait all day long.....get a fucking life, really.
I am a Raider
Explain Jano sitting on that FG. Explain Tampa tanking......you keep harping, but you have no real response.
If the Raiders are such a mess, would good coaches be coming to Oakland? Why couldn't Al Davis hire a real HC? Why would none of them interview near the end of his Life?
Coaches will not go somewhere that will hurt their careers, they will not put themselves in a horrible situation if they can help it....Al Davis proved that, now you say it has no influence on a HC's decision to coach in a certain city? Damn, you will write just about anything? Doesn't matter how fucking stupid it is?
You are such a WASTE
"Explain Jano sitting on that FG. Explain Tampa tanking"
Very simple! Poor coaching. That’s much more plausible than sabotage.
Really Jones, can you find one media report, blog, tweet, or any other reference to the Raiders tanking any games? You are the only one on the planet making this claim.
And I've stated this before, but for your further edification; Mark Davis lost enough faith in McKenzie to take control of the HC interviews and hiring process, despite all his admitted shortcomings.
If Davis agreed with your theories (e.g., Allen was the only option available to McKenzie and all is going according to plan), why would he do that? He is not a control freak like AL. Actually, it's apparent he is just the opposite of AL. He is looking to deligate authority (just named a team president) but he clearly couldn't trust Reggie on this one.
That says a lot.
"Very simple! Poor coaching."
From the same guy you claim to be "trying to save his job"? Jumping the fence again, back and forth you go. If Sparano is trying to save his job, he puts the guy with the longest leg in the NFL, in the Denver air and Kicks an easy 3 points from 57 yrds. RIGHT? Is Tony really THAT stupid?
They don't make a press release announcing they are tanking, you idiot.
Mark and Reggie worked together, Mark said a long time ago that he wanted to be involved and that is his prerogative. SPECULATING that he demoted Reggie and took over the process is FALSE.
Sounds like Reggie had made contact with JDR 3 years ago when Mark was having nothing to do with the process at that time. From what Reggie and JDR said, they decided that it wasn't the right time. And that once again fits into the scenario of a franchise not ready to hire a 'name' HC. Keep going, just keep digging your own grave.
You can't Hang
"Mark Davis lost enough faith in McKenzie to take control of the HC interviews and hiring process, despite all his admitted shortcomings."
If that is the case, would any decent coaches be signing in Oakland? Would they jump into ,a contract with a GM that was about to be fired and an Owner who wants to run the team but doesn't have a fucking clue? Is that your theory? Talk about ABSURD....give it up, your bullshit is done....as time passes you won't have a finger to stand on.
I am a Raider
"Very simple! Poor coaching."
From the same guy you claim to be "trying to save his job"? Jumping the fence again, back and forth you go”
Huh? Bad coaching and trying to save his job are not mutually exclusive?
Honestly Jones, I am fascinated by your "Raiders were tanking it" theory. More people believe in Big Foot and UFOs.
I'm not asking for your high standard of proof that you demand from me. I'm not even asking for mainstream media. Just find me one other nut besides yourself that has posted anything resembling your claim.
Marc Trestman or Adam Gase possible for Raiders OC. On the surface, I like the notion of Gase coming here because he worked in a hurry up offense with P Manning (something Carr can excel at) and he's, well, worked with P. Manning...
Having worked with Del Rio the last couple years could help or hurt the Raiders land Gase. I don't know which.
Either OC would be a nice upgrade from Olsen and Knapp.
Once again, why are these UPGRADES available if the Raiders are still a shambles as RT and his minions portrait? Not going to answer? Ignore it and hope it goes away?
I have asked how many times for an answer = crickets. I have given you answers to the tanking question and any other question....but when the shoe is on the other foot....can't have a discussion when they other side is disingenuous.
If the Raiders are such a mess, why are good coaches coming to Oakland? Can't answer it, huh? Keep acting like you are an authority because you watch TV and read Raider hater articles....asshole.
I am a Raider
SCAR
Wow, what a dysfunctional family/ frenemies situation going on here...what to do, what to do...
I think if there was ever a meetup, the animosity would mostly go away, but since Raiders fans hail from all over, its not likely... Oh I got it, why don't we have a meet up when a Del Rio led team starring Carr as the QB gets to the Super Bowl?... Well ok, ok,,, that might not happen, there are too many variables and factors, and other teams that want it just as bad for that matter. But here's my point, Jack Del Rio might not have been what we wanted,(Harbaugh, Gruden) but the more the hiring sinks in, he is what we need.
SCAR
Jack Del Rio was a solid hire. The timing was right for Del Rio and the Raiders organization to come together. If Del Rio can surround himself with a good staff and Reggie has another good draft, we should turn the corner in 2015.
"Once again, why are these UPGRADES available"
They are upgrades because the coaches they replace were so bad.
McKenzie, a rookie himself, hired a rookie HC, who brought Knapp, Tarver, etc. It was the blind leading the blind. It was doomed from the start!
Raiders needed a HC with experience to get them through the toughest period in their history. Sparano was on staff and was a significant upgrade from Allen.
Allen was way over his head, and McKenzie is still catching up.
Far rarer than HC candidates available to the Raiders when McKenzie took over, are posts on the Internet that suggest the Raiders tanked games?
Any luck with that?
"But we're here to give our opinions. And I don't believe Del Rio was even one of the top ten best DC's in NFL."
Before Del Rio went to the Doncos, the Doncos had a good Defense, but it was not Top 5. Under Del Rio, the Doncos rated #2 and #3 the last 3 years. In Jacksonville, under Del Rio, their Defense was in the Top 10, but he did not have the offense to balance the Jaguars team to win.
IF (and that's a big IF, especially with the Raiders tanking games, and Mark Davis intentionally tanking the organization to appease the League for what his dad has done) the Raiders get a solid WR and RB in Free Agency or the Draft, then Del Rio will have a balanced offense. I guarantee this, that the Raiders Defense will be in the Top 10 this next season.
IF (again, another big IF, especially with the Raiders tanking games, and Mark Davis intentionally tanking the organization to appease the League for what his dad has done) we get an OC that can bring our Offense in the Top 20, we will have a shot at going worst to first next season. The Doncos reign over the AFC West is done, especially with Kubiak as HC. Every year is the Chargers year to win it, and we all know how that goes. Trestman is coming to interview in the next couple days. No sign of Gase.
JUST WIN, BABY!!!
RN - give Fox some of the credit. Broncos defense started showing improvement when Allen was briefly their DC. When Allen came here, our D couldn't get out of its own way for his 2+ years. By extension, that wasn't entirely Tarver's fault. Tarver's D actually got better after Allen left, save the games that we intentionally tanked.
Based on ratings of defense on NFL.com; Denver had the #13 defense in 2008 and 2009. In 2010, they had the #7. When Del Rio came in 2011 (Under Dennis Allen) the Doncos ranked #26. In 2012, Del Rio's first year, the Doncos ranked #2, in 2013, they ranked #1, and this season, they ranked #4. So "Fox and DA" didn't really do anything. Tarver's defense seemed to get better at the end of every season he was here when he knew his @$$ was on the line.
Vic Fangio is linked to be the Favorite for Defensive Coordinator, and Trestman and Bill Musgrave (Eagles QB Coach) are favorites for Offensive Coordinator. According to ESPN.
So what was it about Allen that appealed to McKenzie enough for him to hire Allen? He was never HC before, and only a coordinator for about 30 seconds, and apparently not very good one.
This helps explain why Mark Davis took charge of the HC hiring process.
Dennis Allen was a mistake to hire as a Head Coach especially at that point in time but let's put that in the rear view mirror where it belongs.
@nyraider: no, Jones is not the only one believing in the tanking. I am too.
And to counter the argument that they did not lock up the #1: you can tank without aiming for the #1. Sometimes it is ok to just be HIGH ENOUGH for a tank job to make sense and to gain leverage for trade talks. Maybe they said "Tony, let this one pass, we don't want to end up on #10" instead of "LOSE ALL GAMES FROM HERE ON OUT!".
And re. hints: I posted a very explicit tweet by Sio Moore after this game here on the board. You don't need a lot of imagination to understand where that came from in terms of timing and wording.
It's not rocket science, guys.
-M
CJ - I think it's very relevant because the Raiders are still trying to climb out of the same hole (will they ever learn from their history?)
But Ok. Let’s look ahead.
Bill Musgrave hired as OC.
That's pretty uninspiring considering the coaching talent still available, e.g., Trestman, Gase, etc.
Musgrave has been OC twice before and failed both times. He reportedly is known as a run-run-pass play caller... very predictable.
Not sure one year as Chip Kelly’s QB coach qualifies him as a Kelly disciple.
He worked for Del Rio with the Jags, where he went 5-11 in 2003 and 9-7 in 2004. He was fired after the 2004 season.
He was hired as Vikings OC in 2011 (3-13); 2012 (10-6*); and 2013 (5-10).
*In 2012 Adrian Peterson tore up the league with over 2,300 total yards.
Considering Del Rio is a D-minded HC, he needed to hit his OC hire out of the park.
At first glance, that doesn’t appear to be the case.
That's rich! Don't need to be a forensic psychologist to see that post has your signature all over it.
Desperate much?!
Is that's the Internet version of throwing you voice? LMFAO!
SCAR
@NYRaider,,,ok you are entitled to your opinion,,,but I'm going to go a little more in depth with the Musgrave hire via Levi Damien.
Will Musgrave be good for Carr?
This article suggests yes, with plenty of stats to show why.
http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2015/1/19/7855295/what-bill-musgraves-history-could-mean-for-oakland-raiders-offense
SCAR
SCAR - I'll be the first to admit my initial reaction is uninformed. I like Damien and trust his opinions as much as anyone I read.
I want to be inspired by this choice. I guess, based on media reports leading up to this hire, it's fair to say it seemed as though the Raiders were aiming a bit higher.
SCAR
I hear you NYRaider. It's likely that Musgrave fits more with Del Rio's philosphies of how he wants to build his team then Trestman.
On to the defensive coordinator..
And then, McKenzie needs to earn the trust MD(and Madden?) gave him and hit another homerun in the draft.
SCAR
Pulling out all the stops, hey NYR? So now you are pretending to be another poster, then acting like it is myself so you can keep the 'tanking' ball rolling? DAMN, you must have NO LIFE.....freakin sad, NYR, freakin sad. This site has hit another new low.
I am a Raider
Trestman would have been the 'sexy' hire....but looking at it, what has Trestman done? He was in Canada coaching in the CFL before the Chicago debacle. Sounds like basic philosophies were not in line either.
JDR was a young man as HC in JCKVL, Musgrave has gained experience. It's not the NAME coach many were expecting, he's JDR's guy and this is how the coaching staff is supposed to be hired. With the HC doing it and the Org trusting him to get it right. No longer is the GM hand picking the HC's Ass's..... we will have to see now.
I am a Raider
Again, not the sexy hire, but the smart one. Musgrave coached with Kelly at Oregon too, so it wasn't a one and done stint. In fact, the only reason he came back to the NFL was Kelly.
It is also interesting to note the QBs he had to work with as an OC, and how none of them are elite until he coached Matt Ryan, Foles, Mark Sanchez.
I'm excited about the hire, and am wondering how well he will do here in Oakland. I think we need a solid WR and a RB (Adrian Peterson? Ray Rice? Jeremy Maclin?). We will see.
Needless to say, what I wanted in the coaching staff was smart and sexy (Harbaugh), but if I couldn't have it both ways, I would choose smart over the sexy hire. Del Rio and Musgrave are the smart hires.
JUST PROVE IT, BABY!
Here's a nightmare for you to dream about. The Saints hired Dennis Allen to work with Rob Ryan on their defense. Good luck New Orleans! I see fans wearing brown bags again in the near future, while Yackity-Sacks is playing on the stadium speakers when your defense is on the field.
I know it's a little early to be discussing, but I'm gonna do it anyway.
Who do you want the Raiders to pick at #4? There are 3 names I would be happy hearing, in order of rank:
Amari Cooper (WR, Bama)
Malcom Brown (DT, Texas), not to be confused with the UT RB with the same name, different spelling.
Leonard Williams (DE, USC)
Raider Nate 75,
Musgrave is behind the times, he plays checkers not chess take a look at this tweet i think it says a lot. The guys just run run run
https://twitter.com/ArifHasanNFL/status/557356251034963968/photo/1
Regards
Sandy
Sandy,
Answers that I like from his presser:
"I’m definitely not going to come in with a system and force anybody to do something that’s not natural. We’re definitely going to try to customize and tailor the Raiders’ system to fit the Raider players. Philosophically, I do believe in running the football. I definitely want to be a physical outfit that runs the ball and imposes their will on the defense. At the same time, it’s difficult to defend through the passing game and through being diverse.”
Read this article, it will give you a better perspective than the Twitter picture:
tinyurl.http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2015/1/19/7855295/what-bill-musgraves-history-could-mean-for-oakland-raiders-offense
I watched the entire 50 min presser introducing JDR. As I said before, he brings experience to the table. But he also has good presence, and you can't help but like his connection to the Raiders.
Interesting note: McKenzie said he twice spoke by phone with Del Rio before he hired Allen.
McKenzie stumbled when asked why Del Rio (who was available) wasn't a more serious candidate in 2012.
Just further proof that opportunity to hire an experienced HC existed in 2012. If McKenzie knew we were headed for a cliff (as we are told he did --- "all part of the plan"), why would he have hired a totally inexperienced HC?
In hindsight, even Sparano would have been a far better choice than Allen.
RN - At this early stage, my first and second choices are Williams and Cooper. Williams said publicly that he wants to be a Raider. Or draft Cooper and sign Maclin. What a huge upgrade at WR!
P.S. McKenzie was wishy washy when asked about free agency. He insists that you build through the draft. However, without proper balance, the draft will not be enough. By the time he drafts a team he will have lost key players to free agency, and even retirement. Windows open and close in a matter of a few years. We see it all the time.
IMO, McKenzie has to step up and sign key players in free agency.
If he lets Wiz walk like Veldheer did last year, we will be looking for another center. Not that we couldn't upgrade the position, but both Veldheer and Wiz were drafted by the Raiders, and both are far better than Bergstrom and Watson (drafted by Reggie).
Explore all options!
Thanks for the link Nate good stuff
Regards
Sandy
In other news, think about this. It needs to be read slowly because it was proven this morning how I always felt about this QB.
TOM BRADY PLAYS WITH DEFLATED BALLS!
Brady is making his 6th SB appearance. So, if (playing with) deflated balls is what it takes....
The Patriots run of successes has been equal and opposite to the Raiders run of failures. That's been a tough pill to swallow for over a decade.
It's interesting that John Fox passed on hiring his old DC, Dennis Allen, for same position wit Bears.
Wonder if Del Rio were available, if he passes on him too ?
Musgrave as OC, and rumors of Mangini, or Smith for DC.
Everybody said after Del Rio was hired. If he brings in top OC, and DC, it was a good hire.
Are these the all star assistants that will make a Del Rio a "great" hire ?
"It's interesting that John Fox passed on hiring his old DC, Dennis Allen, for same position wit Bears."
That's because Dennis Allen was already hired by the Bears.
I'd rather pull for Smith over Mangini as DC. I posted a link about Musgrave as OC. I don't think he'll be terrible if we can get Carr weapons he needs to be successful (RB and WR). His staff is much deeper than OC and DC though, Mike Tice is a great hire for O-Line, Brad Seely as Special Teams, Marcus Robertson being promoted to DB coach.
I was hoping to keep DeFillipo as an OC assistant, but he wanted to take the next step and I don't blame him.
So far, with Musgrave, Tice, and Seely hires, these are smart (not sexy) hires. A lot of grief was given when Gruden went with Callahan as OC and not Trestman. Trestman was (and still is) the sexy hire, but Callahan was the smart hire. I have more hope for this staff than the one that just got replaced.
NY, my point about Brady was that we already knew he tucks; but playing with deflated balls is just sick. ;)
Looks like Eric Mangini signed on to become 9ers DC.
Is anyone else getting that, Mike Smith feeling ?
You know, that sinking feeling.
SCAR
I'm getting a. Feeling alright. But its not a sinking feeling.
I'm getting the feeling that this coaching staff will get the Raiders on the right track. the winning track.
SCAR
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It's also being reported that Wade Phillips is interviewing for the DC job in Oakland. Finally, some good news.
Damn straight Nate that is great news. I would totally be down with Wade Phillips as DC coordinator.
That guys is a proven winner and is the kind of veteran coaching leadership and knowledge we need vs young nobody fools such as Tarver, Allen etc.
Regards
Sandy
Not trying to sound so negative. I actually liked the hiring of Musgrave as OC.
Glad Raiders did not hire Gase. Think about it. Gase calls a play. Peyton Manning comes to line of scrimmage, and changes the play. So who really called the play ?
You know all things Donko are so overrated. Without Manning, they are an average team.
I am also pulling for Wade Phillips, or anybody, over Mike Smith for DC.
Good news. ESPN has reported that Mike Smith took his name out of the running for DC.
Bad news, PFT reporting that Wade Phillips is interviewing in Donco land to re-connect with Kubiak.
Indifferent news, Todd Grantham (DC for Louisville) is being interviewed for DC.
If Grantham is hired, Del Rio will more likely help with defensive play calling. I don't mind that, because Del Rio knows defense. It wouldn't be an exciting hire like Phillips, whom we should have nabbed last year (in my opinion).
Julius Thomas says signing with Oakland is a good possibility! That would be awesome! I know he's a TE, but he could probably be used as a WR like Graham. Just a thought.
Mike Smith is still under contract with the Falcons. His potential salary as DC of the Raiders would be less than the Falcons have to pay him in 2015, with the Falcons picking up the balance.
Either way, he can't make more money than he will get paid for doing nothing.
Staying home and collecting HC money is a decision most would agree but it doesn't show much passion for his craft.
To Dennis Allen's credit, he chose to coach, though I believe he's still under contract with the Raiders (who probably have to pick up the balance of his HC salary).
Another name for DC that I would like to hear is Jim Schwartz. Haven't heard that name yet, and it would be a better name than Grantham.
Musgrave is a former OC turned QB coach and Grantham (being the current front runner for DC) comes from the college ranks after stints in the NFL level.
Personally, I was hoping the Raiders would aim a little higher.
And after Allen's epic failure hiring Knapp, I would think Raiders brass would have to approve any and all coaching hires.
NFL.com reporting a 2 year deal has been offered to Grantham to be our next DC. No word if the offer has been accepted. :/
Correction, that would be pft.com not nfl.com
Grantham has officially declined the Raiders offer.
That doesn't look good for the Raiders. The job had to come with a significant pay increase and was declined.
Who's next? Running out of options. Maybe some obscure assistant from one of the SB teams.
Falcons getting Dan Quinn, Seahawks DC, as HC. He will be the last to put together a staff.
NY, that's good news about Grantham. I wasn't sold on him. He declined the offer, not because of anything bad with the Raiders, but he loves Louisville and coaching college. Different animal coaching in the NFL, probably feels better suited in college.
There are plenty of options out there, no time to hit the panic button. Ken Norton Jr is an option, Mike Smith is still an option, Jim Schwartz is an option.
Smith is staying home to collect his HC salary from the Falcons.
Taking a job below HC pay grade means he would be essentially working for free.
Schwartz would be solid, but will the Raiders reach out to him? I doubt it, based on the candidates that have been presented so far.
Ken Norton is intriguing but I don't see any other mainstream options. Not sure who else you mean.
Wade Phillips is Broncos new DC. Again, the Raiders didn't appear to have reached out to him.
Raiders say money is not an issue for them to acquire top coaching talent; yet, they seem to be pretty frugal in their search and choices so far.
Can't blame Wade Phillips for taking the Donks DC job.
It's a smart move by him.
By becoming the new Donk DC. He puts himself in position to be the next HC of the Raiders...LoL.
Tim Brown is finally going into the Hall of Fame!
Congrats to Tim Brown a great Raider who provided many great memories.
All the best to Timmy
Sandy
Welcome to our new DC Ken Norton Jr! Was DC at USC, and LB coach in Seattle, I think he is going to do well.
Solid coaching staff.....great ST's coach, Defense in great hands, Rio, Norton, Woodson's favorite DB coach.....look for a strong unit. Offense...Carr needs help...give him some threats at WR and watch this Kid explode. If Murray works out to be the real deal at RB, who says this team isn't on the rise? OPEN YOUR EYES.
You know
New take is up: That's the Spirit, Jack!
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