No Postgame Take
What can I say? This offense couldn't score a touchdown against my two dead cats. This team needs a serious intervention. It's a tough job, but I'm sure we're up to the task. In the coming weeks (thanks to Damon for the suggestion!), we will break down the offense and discuss what should be done. The QB discussion has already started below, but we'll give it more formal treatment along with the other positions. It gives me something to look forward to, a rarity these days.
P.S. I'm on the road, staying with family, saddled with a creaky dial-up connection. I appreciate everying keeping the commentary fires burning while my take-nology is temporarily disabled due to holiday traveling. I wish everyone a very Merry Christmas! And I hope that Santa Claus leaves a very good strategic plan under the Christmas tree in Alameda.
P.S. I'm on the road, staying with family, saddled with a creaky dial-up connection. I appreciate everying keeping the commentary fires burning while my take-nology is temporarily disabled due to holiday traveling. I wish everyone a very Merry Christmas! And I hope that Santa Claus leaves a very good strategic plan under the Christmas tree in Alameda.
posted by Raider Take at 2:39 PM
77 Comments:
If Davis doesn't mend his ways and put aside his pathological HATRED for Quarterbacks then we will continue to lose.
We should go all out to get Brady Quinn, failing that, we should abandon the passing game altogether and go with ARDIAN PETERSON and try and build a team similair to the Ravens, and Steelers of recent years.
Win with defense.
IF, we continue to want a vertical pass offense and do not add BRADY QUINN to run it we will continue to lose. No doubt about it
Also firing arthur would help tremendously but i don't see the fans being that lucky.
Firing the lawn gnome would also help Brady Quinn no end.
If the Raiders do not get Quinn or Peterson, they have screwed the 1st round pooch AGAIN. That will be FOUR years running Davis has wasted a priceless pick.
Two plans of attack.
1. Get Quinn.
2. Get Peterson and change philosophy.
IMO neither seem likely as the Raiders can't get anything right.
Helpful to both plans would be to can Art Shell's useless ass.
RT - In the holiday spirit I will save my thoughts on what solutions need to be implemented to get this ship sailing again for another day. More importantly, may your days be bright & merry.
Best holiday wishes to you and the entire Raider Nation.
I would like to wish everyone in the world a happy holiday season, except the eleven zombies that play offense for the Oakland Raiders.
Here's hoping that next year, we have all new players/coaches, on offense, & a run stuffer on the D.
#1 Pick not so likely now:
What an "Ugly" week...how did Houston..Tenn..become "Winners" and Indy...Seattle...Cinn....become game ending "Choakers"....Go Figure...so now the score is
Raiders...Oponets 130 wins
Lyons.....Oponets 128 wins
What hope is there...Dallas-n-Miami must win Monday and it will be 130-to-129....next week Atlanta....Miami...NewEngland....Minn...Buffalo....Jackson....Az-n-SF must become winners...than the score will be 135-to-140....not much room for error....or Detroit has to beat Dallas....NOT much hope of sucess so now my forcast...140-to-137 and the Raiders have the #2 DraftPick....sad but true....
Maybe we can make a trade with MattMillan....Porter-or-Moss to trade picks...."Takem Both"...Please.....
Culpepper is the "Only" ligitamate starting "Verteran" QB out there who will likely be trade bait....apart from him I don't see a reason to go after anyone's QB in a trade....unless it is very very cheap...I talked to some MiamiFans and they think he is "ForSell" because of his "Cap" value and JoeyHarrington is working out.....They also think RickyWilliams is comming back so go figure....I don't see him staying in Miami but who knows...the "Fish" FrontMen like him....but the Culpepper trade might be a very ligitamate posibility....
#1..or#2 DraftPick has to for the QB even if we get Culpeper....because that is the price to be a future winner and have consistancy at the position...I still like Walter but we need that #1 calibur QB....
As far as the Raiders not drafting QB's in the 1st round that has alot to do with position....we would have taken Elway if we had the opertunity....we would have taken VinceYoung if he had fallen to us but MattLianert did not fit the phylosophy...do you think we would have passed on Marino or Bledsoe.....NOT likly....
The RB in the first round would be a good pick if we can't get the QB that fits our system and we have Culpeper-n-Walter.....a good quality RB opens up alot for the QB and makes the "D" consentrate on the "Run"....just like with BoJackson....he even made Schreador look good...until Bo went down against Cinn....than we all saw the QB for what he was...a "Failure"...and without Allan's running MarkWilson would have never won a game....he "Sucked"....But not as bad as Collins-n-Brooks.....
The RB could come in the 2nd Rn....as could a Possesion WR....but I like the Curry/Morant Combo....Gabrial...Madsen....Bucannon....are good young back-ups.....but who is that "Go-To" underneith guy who always catches the ball....and where do we get a TE.....
Symple fact is...give CoachShell the players to make it work and we will have a "Productive" "O"....5 "TurnOvwer"s every week is NOT the coaches fault...and a "Productive" "O" will make us winners because of our "D"....they get the "TurnOvers" and good field position for the "O" almost every week....."If we only had a 'O'".....is what the "D" is singing this season.....
PantyRaider....Picken#2!!!!!
To Steal a line from the "Demo"s::
AlDavis says "Help is on the way"...JustBelieveBaby!!!
We may disagree on how the Raiders should do things,but the fact remains we all want the same thing, a competitive team. On that note just like to wish the" Nation" a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. And thank you all for many hours of enjoyment reading all the posts. a toast to a new year of hope!
Raider Take, even Santa has his limitations. We're also going to need help from the Easter Bunny.
Merry Christmas to ALL!
All I know is that I got to go see the Raider's play the chiefs on Saturday night and payed a total of 40 bucks to watch the Raiders from the black hole, 10 rows up, all I can say about that is thank you for the people that don't want to watch the game at the stadium, if this keeps up I will keep driving to Oakland every Saturday from Palm Springs to watch them every game next year.
Again thank you all that have tickets and are too pissed off to go to the stadium and don't want to make the pilgrimage to the best place in the world, I will keep going to watch the Raider's and thanks to you I will keep paying 10 to 20 dollars a ticket.
Happy holidays!
RaiderDeCoachella::
Right-On-Bro...something Positive when the rest are in the "Dumper"...
#1 Pick...."SlipinAway"
2min Warning and Miami is "Choakin" to the Jets....Score....
Raiders....Oponets 131
Lyons......Oponets 128
Not much hope left....Question....Does the NFL count the PostSeasonWins when they evaluate the weakist Schedual???? If so we need to hope for NewEmgland to make the SB against Chacago and LOOSE....and for Dallas to win 2 PlayOffGames.....and for Denver....SD.....Jets...Baltimore...Indy.....Seattle....Phylly.....NewO....to "Chaok" and for GB or Atlanta to make the PlayOff's and win a game or two.....How much hope is there in all that....Not much.....but were down by 3 games with 1 week left.....and the schedual does not look good for the Raiders...Unless Detroit beats Dallas....Ha! Ha! "FatChance"
PantyRaider...JustHopinBaby!!!
Corection:
Raiders....Oponets 130
Lyons......Oponets 126
Were 4 games out of the #1 pick
OneLastComment::
There are no teams with 3 wins so the Raiders should just go out and "Kick the Shit" out of the Jets and still get the #2 pick.....Because we arn't going to get the #1 with this schedual anyway.....
PantyRaider....CrashDaJets!!!!
PantyRaider is going a little crazy with the numbers thing, but it does show dedication!! Thanks I guess I was too lazy to check that out. Keep Walter get new line! Draft GT WR! Merry Christmas and I hope for a happy new year of Raiders Kicking butt and taking some names.
nyraider:
In a post at the end of the previous string, you said, "BR: if the O players have become so complacent, then wouldn’t the D players resent them. There’s no visible contempt, just frustration on both the whole team."
I saw an interview with Schweigert that says you're wrong. He was complaining that the O unit makes the whole team look bad.
In spite of initial appearances, I think Shell has done a good job of keeping things "in-house." It will all hit the fan after the game against the Jets. It's starting to ooze out now.
RT, I can't remember the last time I read a post that said "Five Postgame Takes." Granted, this current crop of Raiders hasn't exactly earned one of your legitimate take posts, but still. And odd how you say "No Postgame Takes" but talking about how the offense can't score against dead cats is most certainly a take. So a take you did take, you took that take right there. Good luck and Godspeed to you.
BAMA7
Will Al, who has been humiliated worst than Ned Beatty in Deliverance, finally try to save his NFL legend and bring in qualified people to run his franchise? Surely Al fianlly realizes that he cannot keep winning on past genmius. He has no more 1976 ACE's up his sleeves. No more Lamonica rabbits to pull out of Blanda's old helmet. Time for new, qualified leadership. But with Al we all know there has to be a measure of face-saving, a method that would tie him to any possible future redemption. That means he won't whack everyone and bring in a new GM and HC while finally turning over the reigns. If he did that, and we were suddenly sucessful again, then he would look like he does now, irrelevant and not the reason for any success. People would just say, "Big deal, he did what he should have done twenty-five years ago, and what he should have done when Gruden wanted control." No, Al IS humbled, and he does want the glory back, but it will be a delcate thing for him, because he has to seem a part of it. He's never been an owner that just watches the game from a nice suite.
I think he'll keep a part of the current regime. Either name Lombardi GM and allow him to pick a new staff or jettison Lombardi and leave the Shell experiment in place, or promote Ryan. Any of these options, if sucessful, would allow Al to say, "See I just didn't have the parts arranged right. I fixed it all, see? With what I knew to begin with was a good nucleus."
If it has to be one of these, I'd like to see Al turn it over to Lombardi. Lombardi's first order of business would be to find a leader on offense. Last year we passed on Mcnair, Culpepper, Cutler, Leinert and possibly could have moved to get YOung. I wrote earlier in the year that Young was special. I think he is in a league all by himself and once he plays a bit more, he'll be the NFL's MVP several times over. He is a notch above the rest of the league. We should have moved to get him. Al obviously liked him. What a waste.
Is Quinn the answer? Maybe. Certainly not in our current offense. Is Brooks the answer- no way. Is Walter the answer: Absolutely not.
Final thoughts: 86 porter, Gabrial and Curry and use the money on a couple of really good NFL O-lineman. I like Curry, but he's just a play away from hitting the IR.
Next, I suppose, pick-up Quinn. I really like Petersen too. Could we get both by ditching all of our picks from 2 thru 7? Petersen will be as good as Tomlinson and LJ (And I'm not speaking of Jordan here). With Quinnand Petersen and solid gameplan, we'd have a smart QB, and a very good RB... plus all those FA O-linemen.
Bama7 - You are probably right about Al navigating a fine line in staying involved but also transitioning authority within the organization. It will be imperative to have a comprehensive master plan that includes all of the key hires for positions of leadership.
As far as 86'ing personnel, you mention Porter, Gabriel, and Curry which I find a bit curious. Does this mean you want Moss and Whitted on the 07 roster? I would 86 Porter, Moss, and Whitted but hold on to Gabriel and Curry.
Curry has more receptions (28) in 11 quarters than Whitted in 14 games starting (27). Sure, Curry is 1 play away from injury but the reality is that ALL the players are 1 play away from injury. Curry has proven this year that he is healthy and as usual, is SUPER productive when given the opportunity. What kind of message would it be to 86 your most productive, team first player after he has proven his worth and worked so hard to gain 100% health? Curry (57, 680) has produced 2x more than Whitted (27, 299) in half the total snaps.
Curry, Gabriel, Madsen, Morant, Buchanon and 1 draftee or free agent would be a good corps for the 07 season.
With a re-energized running game (Peterson), competent QB (Schaub, JaMarcus Russell), a free agent LT, and a top 10 D, the Raiders could turn things around.
Bama7 - A few additional points on Curry ... why would anyone in their right mind ever consider 86'ing the one bright spot on the entire Raiders' offensive unit? Curry has been the best offensive peformer in 07, BAR NONE.
Clearly when revamping an entire unit, it is crucial to hold on to your most reliable professionals. Curry's ability to get open and move the chains is the reason he is a QB's best friend.
Calico,
I realize at this point, we are all just throwing things against the wall to see what will stick, but, a free agent left tackle ??
I can't imagine we can get a quality LT through free agency. LT's have become like Qb's. When a team gets a good one, they usually lock them up for the long term.
I will say this about our 0-line. If we can pencil in Mcq at left guard, & Boothe at right guard, and perhaps swing Gallery back over to RT,(he was ok there), maybe we have something of a line to start from.
But still needing a LT, & center.
Raider00 -
I realize it will be difficult to find a 1st tier LT free agent because (a) most are locked up with long term deals (b) there will be very few on the market.
However, there should be a 2nd tier of available LT free agents worth persuing. If the Raiders go after Joe Thomas with the 2nd pick, I would also be pleased as long as we get another veteran FA on the line (ie. Center) who can be a leader of this unit. No matter what means necessary (draft, free agency, or trade), LT needs to be a MAJOR priority this off-season. Possible line;
LT - Free Agent or Joe Thomas
LG - McNasty
C - Free Agent
RG - Boothe
RT - Gallery
With Sims a likely casualty, our O-line desparately needs some veteran leadership whether it is a new LT or Center. With our many deficiencies on the offensive unit, the Raiders will need to priortize filling as many holes as possible. LT, RB, QB are on high on my list which are positions of great impact and need of an upgrade.
Today's New York sports headline: "Defeating hapless Raiders would give New York its playoff ticket." "...one more win against the lowly Oakland Raiders, and the playoffs will be all the Jets are talking about."
15 games and we can't get (nor do we deserve) any respect. Truly sad! Another low-point in my 30+ years as a Raider fan.
Well, now you guys have had a month to read my last post at BlandaRocked (and it probably took about that long), I've posted another. A little shorter this time.
To my Raider Nation family, Happy New Year!
Oops...
Here's my address...
http://raiderhistory.blogspot.com/
CalicoJack:
Never too early to start lookin and never too late to be Positive...so good on both parts...You can see thru the mess on the "O" and see that just a few additions and a few subtractions will go a long way if we keep the good quality players who are already there..Curry..Morant..Buchanon..Madsen..Gabrial..Walter..Fargas..are the specialist who care about the game and why would we let them go....Curry is the only one who has a high cap value...we can cut and resign Gabrial in the off season to lower his cap value...
OL...How is McQ's brother doing...maybe we could pick him up and move him to RG and McQ to RT and these 2 TwinBrothers working together would build a trust and comunication which could be "UnReal"...I think Bro-McQ went to Dallas...they played well together this way in college...this has never happened in the Pro's before...just imagine???
Sims..Kennedy..Slauter..were OT's who we picked up in FreeAgency or Trade so it is not imposible to do again..and an improvement at the skilled positions could make these "OL" players look a whole lot better...such as if "LT" was in our backfield with DrewBreez...would our "OL" look a little better...NOT great but better because the "SkillPosition" players make everyone around them better...and that is what we are really lacking...that "O" leader who "Inspires" greatness from everyone around him...Does Moss do that....Toooo SelfMotivated...Want's all daGlory...Walker is too young and is overshawdowed by Moss the "TeamCaptain" and "Air"Brooks is NO leader...
If we could trade for Culpepper and draft Quinn and a Good RB and another WR...our "O" would be set at the skill positions for a long time to come...we can address the OL thru FreeAgincy and DraftRounds 3-5...we should at least get an extra 3rd pick from trades...
Question:..We gave up a first for Moss and a 2nd for Porter...could we package them to a team for a 1st-n-3rd this year...a team who has a good QB and RB but is lacking at the WR position...a team who thinks it would be an instant winner if it had the Great WR's..."Get on the phone and call Dallas"...JerryJones are you ready to deal???? Give "Tuna" a "HeartAtack"..."I don't know those players"...
PantyRaider...WheelinDeelin!!
It's not going to matter who we add via free agency or the draft, if the same offensive coaches are here next year we'll get the same results, not just in losses but in pathetic offensive play.
And if Al and Art aren't smart enough to realize this then we'll know where the problem lies.
Bama7
Calico Jack- I agree with you totally about Curry. I really like him. I was just thinking of what bartering value we have to perhaps gain extra draft picks or other offensive personnel. My only fear with Curry is that he will eventually go down. Has he been hurt twice or three times with us?
Sorry I wasn't clear on Whitted. Let me clarify: I don't think Whitted is qualified to even be in the NFL, much less a starter. He's the biggest mystery of all on the 2006 squad. Who is behind this? Shell or Davis? I think Whitted is the freakin' Rossetta Stone to this lost season... what I mean is, whoever is responsible for naming and keeping him a starter IS THE ONE THAT IS CALLING THE SHOTS AND ALSO THE ONE THAT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS LOST SEASON.. Not that Whitted was the entire reason, but if we knew why, who and what as to Whitted's status as starter, we'd all know the virus upon our team. I wish someone would point-blank ask Shell and Davis who made that call. I do know one thing: Whitted was with us before Shell arrived.
I think Al is pulling the strings on all of this crap.. Whitted, Walsh, verticle game, antiquated offfense, brayton strating... etc. And I think Art is just a puppet. I think Ryan has benefitted from Al getting heavily involved in the offense this year.
Al is no longer good at the NFL game. Sad.
As for Moss, I just can't believe a guy that was the most feared player in the league just three years ago is suddenly so ineffective. The Walsh offense didn't work 15 years ago and now it is like sending the cavalry up against tanks. So who knows what Moss or many others on our offense are capable of.
Calico- I also like that you spotted Jemarcus Russell. He is phenomenal... some of the time. I have watched him alot and he is a mystery, but very, very intriguing.
We'll see what happens.
Besides Curry's performance, these quotes tell you all you need to know about the man:
"I feel like I hold a lot of value as part of the foundation of this team," Curry added.
"But if you don't win, it's not gratifying -- no matter how many plays you make."
#1 - He wants to be a part of the solution to the team's offensive woes.
#2 - He is totally committed to the team's success.
Make no mistake. Curry is the type of gifted WR if given the opportunity to start in 07 is very capable of putting up 80,1000,8 type numbers. Out of 11 offensive starters going into 07, Curry is the one guy I have no doubts or reservations about whatsoever.
RaidersSchedual "07"
Home: Clevelend--Houston--Indy*--Chicago*--Detroit
Away: Miami--Jacksonville--Tennesee--GreenBay--Minnesota
Pluss 6 games against the AFC West
There are only 2 games against "PlayOff" Teams outside our divission and we play them at home so the schedual looks very favorable....5 games will be against teams under 500....3 games against teams who are barely at or above 500...We should "Expect" our team to make the "PlayOff"s with this type of schedual and such a good "D"....if we can just get a "Consistant" "O" that does not turn the ball over and can score 2-3 TD/game-w-a FielGoal or two added in we should be 10-6....that's only winning 2 divission games and the 8 games against the weaker NFL teams....with losses to Indy-n-Chacago and 4 Divission losses....NOT too much to hope for is it....
How many games were the Raiders close to a victory in this year if we had a little bit of an "O"...6 games by 10pts or less...3 by 4pts or less...5 where we led and lost in the second half...just having enough "O" to hold onto the damn ball and score a TD would have given us a 7-9 record....remember...the points came against our "D" after the "O" turned the ball over repeatedly with a short field...do you blame that on the coaches??/__ How "Dumb" is that...
The "O" got off on a bad foot and never recovered but there were opertunities...and if the player's had the "Commitment" to give it their all we could have won more games...but they did not and we are 2-13....lookin up to see 3-13 and that sucks....but lets put the blame where it lies....it's not the Owner and Coaches who are fumbling the ball...can't make a catch...throwing Int's and making stupid mistakes....it's the "Players"....plain as day and simple to see and yet some "Nerd"s who never played a down of sports imagine they are "SportsWritters" and continue to "Bash" the Orgainization and blame them for everything...."PureStupidity"...It's so easy to be an "ArmChair" QB when you nave played the damn game...isn't it..."HowardKosel"...and the rest of the "Mediot"s and their Fans..."ImaginarySportsWriters" repeating the same old nonsence...
SideNote:
BillCohwer will anounce after the game Sunday what his plans are...speculation is he will opt out of his final year of his contract and retire....after a year or two he may want to come back to coaching and would command a very high salery...is it compleatly out of the question to imagine him comming to the Raiders in "08"....and Shell going to the front office????
PantyRaider....TommoroLookinUp!!!
All I have to say is that if the best two players in this year's draft are QB's, given Al's penchant to NOT draft QBs with high picks, this would be the golden opportunity to trade down in the draft to try to acquire as much offensive help as needed.
Of course, the first course of action needs to be to fix the offensive coaching by hiring a new OC and possibly even a new OL coach...or just abandon the man blocking schemes that Shell/Slater/Eatman have been trying to re-teach.
PantyRaider:
Davis has one more tendency that we don't discuss around here much. By and large he looks for up and coming faces in the NFL has HCs. The only time I can remember him hiring recycled HCs is Bugel and Turner (and now, to a certain degree) Shell.
Who out there is considered to be a bright young OC. That's generally the direction where Davis will go.
USC HC....was NFL coach before but I don't know if he runs a "VerticalPassingSystem"....
BillCohwer was just a "Dream" because I really like the man and he is a great motivator...and he is simmilar to Shell in the "O" "Style" but "Firey" on the field..He would have been in the PlayOff's and SB more often if the SqueelersOwners would have paid their players instead of always letting them go...they have lost so maney top quality players to FA it is just sick...but BillCohwer still kept them winning thru it all...Just think what the man could do if he could keep his players....Pitts and SD are alike this way...letting such top quality players go "By-By"...maybe that is the motivation for Cohwer to retire and start again somewhere else....
PantyRaider...JustDreaminBaby!!!
We all agree, I think, that Ryan is running the defense.
Now, the call is for a bright young coach to be the new OC.
Great, ok, but, I have to ask then...
What the hell is Art Shell's job ??
To just stand on the sideline, and watch it all happen ??
A head coach has to have the respect of the players. How can Shell gain respect with no input, or knowledge, of either the defense, or offense.
A head coach has to be more then a figure head to succeed in todays NFL
Raider00:
I disagree that Shell has NO input into the "D"...what HC would be "HandsOff" any position on his team....Do we see an improvement in the "D" and a change in the "D"s Style sence Shell came to the team...Ofcourse we do...But you are right...Ryan is running the "D" as to "PlayCallin" and "Comunication" to to the players just as Walsh or Shoop were running the "O"...but under Shell's direction...just as Shell is under Al's direction...this is a "Chain-o-Command" typs of thing...and I think Shell is the type of coach that wants his "DC-n-OC-n-STC"s to be able to run their units successfully as he directs them but with freedom under the "System"...
This last year Shell got the "DC" the players to better run his system and got rid of the "Cancerous" mouth of Woodson and posibely some others...next year Shell needs to do the same for the "O" which he started in the later rounds last year...time to "Dump" the "Trash" and aquire new personel for the "O"...this may also include a new "OC"...but the "OC" will work under CoachShell's direction the same as the "DC" does now...
A coach can have a "Presance" on the field that demands respect and compliance and that is what CoachShell wants to show....but if the players on a unit are so disrespectful that they do not follow commands than it does not matter what the coach does...get in their faces...screem and hollar...shake his fist...bench a player...and what is the result...the "Mediot"s point fingers with the players and say he is "Out-a-Control" and should not be a "HC"...or as happened with the "STC"...the players get the "Mediot"s to support them in their atacks...or as with the "OC" and a new one is brought in but NO wins follow...WHY???...now that is the question to ask....
If it is the plan for Shell to move into the front office it is important for "EVERYONE" to understand he is in "Control"...thus the players will understand and the Stupid "Mediot"s will understand and the Coaches will understand..and the Fans will understand...and than when Shell comes down on the field durring practice and speaks to his coaches the players will understand that "GM" Shell is in "Control" of this team...they will understand it when they are brought in under contract and when they are "LetGo" for "NonCompliance" of their duties...so it is very important that CoachShell builds this understanding now...or how will he ever build it later if he does not establish it now...and than as the "GM" in the fron office he will still have control of the team because "EVERYBODY" understands his position...
Does anybody question AlDavis on this team at any time???..I think NOT!!!..You comunicate with the man and listen but you DO NOT Question his athority...ArtShell needs to establish that type of "Presance" if he is to take command of the team...and he can do it his way.."Silant-n-Strong"
PantyRaider...JustSaluteBaby!!!
Raider00:
I'd disagree that Shell has no input in the defense. Yes, Ryan calls the plays and runs the defense on game days, but to think that Shell ignores everything happening on the defensive side of the ball is absurd. I think its a grave mistake to think that this defense just suddenly turned around without Shell's input.
Part of my complaint is that we pick out our favorites for critism and decide that everything bad is because of them, and anything good belongs to somebody with whom we haven't identified an issue.
Sapp said the other day that he wants Shell back. I don't think that he'd have said that if Shell were simply an non-entity. It seems that Sapp's biggest fear is that they will bring in somebody new and start rebuilding from the ground up. If so, he says, he wants to leave.
I agree with Sapp that the Raiders are a few players and a few tweaks away from really starting something good.
Pantyraider's last post -- dude you ain't drinking the koolaid, you are bathing in it!!!!!
I do not believe Shell had any input in the defense.
Just to be fair, I also do not believe Shell had input in the horrible offense, other then naming good friend Walsh as OC at the start, and setting the tone for the vertical offense, and the man on man 0line blocking scheme, he favored.
I never said, though, that I thought Shell should be fired.
I have no problem with Shell returning for a 2nd season.
This just makes sense to me since we will not be getting a top coach anyway, and if the choice is between Shell, and a retread like Fassel, might as well bring back Art for another season of blank stares.
Raider00:
Have you ever met Art Shell? He doesn't need to say anything to you. He doesn't need to raise his voice. He makes eye contact with you and you know exactly what's on his mind.
If you think he's a statue (which he definately isn't) why would you want him back?
Blandarocked,
I have never had the pleasure of meeting Art Shell. I'm sure he is a very nice man.
I do, however watch the games.
I have seen Refs rob us, and Shell stares straight ahead.
I have seen Moss loafing, and Shell stares straight ahead.
I have heard Shell say he wants more running plays, but on game day, during close games, the running attack is abandoned, and Shell stares straight ahead.
I have seen Alvis Whitted start all season, play badly, all while Shell stares staight ahead.
If Art is sending some secret message through staring, one would think the team would have gotten it by now.
The reason for bringing Shell back I've already stated.
Rather have Shell then a recycled loser like Fassel.
BR: Are you implying Shell communicates on the sideline through psychokinesis? Simply put, the man needs to be more involved in the game! I’ll preface the following by first saying, I have not been to a game since Art Shell took over as coach, however, by my (TV) observations, he carries a blank clipboard, never seems to talk to anyone on his headset, doesn’t appear to interact with players or coaches on the sideline, has on numerous occasions missed critical challenges (or initiated a challenge when alternately saving a timeout was more critical, only to lose the timeout), has demonstrated extremely poor judgement regarding his wide receiver corp, and waited until the 11th hour to fire his O.C. who brought nothing to the table, perhaps only to save face.
From a distance, Shell seems to be more of a figurehead than a head coach. In this regard, he will need top flight coordinators to get the job done next year. He has one in Rob Ryan. Now he needs to hire an O.C.
I know many of you will have a retort for my rant, but the real answers will come next year after we’ve added some much needed player personnel on offense. If, after those additions, we do not see marked improvement, than the answer will be all too obvious.
NYRaider:
NO "Rant"s Bro....just the same...we will know as time passes by...I believe you will see the influence of CoachShell this "OffSeason" and in the new season to come...than we will all know....
Now we all speculate...but the Stupid "Mediot"s influence alot of peoples minds at this point in the game...and the "Speculation"s go along with their "Lies"....and that is all they have is "Lies"...the same "Lies" they have told for years and years and their "Dumb" fans brlieve them....so grows the "HaterEmpire" in oposition to the "RaiderNation"...but in time even they will have to see the truth...as will we all...but they will no doubt still try to spin it in some rediculas way against the "Nation" simply because they "Hate" us...."Hate" us for being successful for all those years...they have waited forever to see us down and now they want to kick us to death....but it ain't happening "Baby"....we be getten up...and that is what they fear most...the return of the "DarkSide"...and the dark shadow cast upon their dwindling little fanticies...for a looser is what they are and a looser is what they will always be....but we...we be "Winners" throughout time and will be again and again to their bitter dismay....Oh! Did I get carried away....sorry...I just love to "Bash" da "Hater"s.....Dumb...Dumb-n-Dumber....
So now with the #1 Draft pick out of reach...I hope this team gets it together one more time and kicks some Jet's Asssssss...."Crash-da-Jets"....the only way we get the #1 is if the Lyons beat the Cowgirls....NOT happening....
Raider00 and NYRaider:
Have you ever known a man who holds so much respect that he demands it from you just by lookin in his eyes...this is nothing "Mistical"...it is just reality...but it only comes from people who have a "BattleTested" streingth...and you have to know something about them....maybe in sports it is a "Master" who has dominated for years and is so well known that fables are spoken about him...."BruceLee"....if he were here and an older man would he demand such respect....sometimes it is a BattleTestedGeneral....or a HighlyDecoratedShouldier...but when you look in his eyes you see something....NOT "Mistical"...just reality...
Is AlDavis such a man...you best believe he is....that is why so many hate him so badly and want to kick him now when they see he is vulnerable....a worthless breed who have no real streingth in themselves...so they try to kick a man who has "Greatness" and speaks about it openly....this is what Shell needs to be if he is to take over the "RaiderNation"...just as GeenUpshaw has taken over the NFLPA...because he is such a man and played side by side with ArtShell....and remember the slogan..."Pride-n-Poise"....and both those men show that now in how they deal with their assignments...do you see GeenUpshaw get raddled and go off on some owner or coach...why would you expect it from Shell...
If an official makes a bad call as they do repeatedly against our team what good does it do to get your "FeathersFluffed"...if you look back at a Shell coached team in the "90"s he dealt with is on the field....in one game 2 officials were knocked out as the players ran plays right at them...it was great...and Shell just stood there with that same "ColdGlance"...the next home game it happened again and one was taken out....the message got understood....that is leadership and NO player came out and spoke aginst the coach in that one or ever accused him of ordering it...could he do that now...NOT hardly...some damn player would go streight to the "Mediot"s and all hell would break loose...but that is the type of leadership this team needs..."Quiet"....where the players understand the Man has their backs and they have his back...that is the old way...the "RaiderWay"...
If you ever met LyalAlzado you would have understood him without a word...just his "Presance" spoke loudly...HowieLong was still young when I met him but I would guess he has that "Presance" today...and players respond to that type of leadership without alot of words...at that time RonnyLott was on out team and he definatly had that "Preasance"....
So now I have spoken too much but there is alot to say even when we are loosers....
PantyRaider...JustRememberinBaby!!!
Let me preface my comments by saying the following;
(1) I sincerely believed and wanted Shell to succeed
(2) I admire him as a HOF player, loyal Raider employee, and most importantly, as a human being
(3) Throughout most of the season I have wanted to give him EVERY benefit of the doubt and reserve judgment on him as our HC
(4) I have closely followed and observed Shell in person at the games, on t.v., through his interviews in the Bay Area newspapers and media, and his post game press conferences.
(5) I have closely followed how he has handled the various issues stemming from Porter, Moss, Walsh, Walter.
Based on the 5 above points, these are my conclusions:
Shell is a loyal Raider soldier who deserves to be commended for his service and dedication. However, he isn't equipped to lead us in the future as HC. Why?
His game management skills, communication skills, leadership style, problem resolution abilities, and decision making skills are not suited for a HC let alone a team in quick sand.
Let me share a few examples or observations to make my point clear;
Game Management Skills: By the looks of things, Shell does not appear even remotely involved in the game. He hardly interacts or communicates with the coaches or players. As he quietly stands on the sideline I wonder why he even wears the headset. This lack of involvement and communication is troubling to say the least.
Communication Skills: Without a doubt, his biggest shortcoming. A HC needs to be able to communicate effectively and directly with his staff, players and the media to get his message across and affect change. Shell is a man of few words. His interviews and press conferences are painful to read and listen. Often times it is short, vague answers without any real message, substance or passion behind it. "stay the course"..."we just weren't able to make a play"..."we continue to stub our toe". Because he delivers the message in a calm, monotone, controlled manner it is almost like he is unintentionally saying he doesn't really care or that it is just the way the game went. I'm fine with the delivery style as long as there was some substance behind the message and action behind the words. For example, how many times have we heard him say that the Raiders need to run the ball more? The words are meaningless if you don't follow it up with taking action and actually doing what you say.
Problem Resolution Abilities: Shell allows problems to fester by not dealing with each problem swiftly, decisively and directly. He also has been sending mixed messges with how he has handled some of the problems. He needs to be firm, fair, and consistent.
Moss: After his 1st radio broadcast where he said unflattering things about the Raiders organization, Shell should have sat Randy down for a heart to heart talk. After the 2nd radio broadcast, Shell should have benched him. To allow Moss to continue to be a negative influence and be elected captain was a total disgrace and bad judgment.
Porter: If Shell had no intentions of Porter being a part of the team, at some point, he should have either (a) traded him (b) released him (c) de-activated him. To have Porter in uniform but not playing is the worst of both worlds... all the distractions and negativity without the production. Either JP helps you by producing on the field or you cut him loose.
Walter: After Walter's remarks about Walsh's playbook, Shell blasted Walter in the press instead of talking to him in private. Once again this is bad judgment by the man in charge since Shell is on record as saying he wants things kept in house... do as I say not as I do. He never did discuss this situation with Walter and this is your future QB?
Leadership Style: Shell for the most part has been a hands-off leader who delegates the responsibilites of each unit to the respective coach. This is fine when your team is playing well and you have competent coaches for each unit. However, each game (or week) is like a progress report. If a unit is struggling, Shell needs to get more intimately involved in fixing the problem whether it is playcalling, pass protection, run blocking, turnovers etc. An immediate adjustment or corrective action needs to be taken.
It was a grave error in judgment to hire Walsh as OC and to wait until week 12 to make a change. Frankly it was a selfish act to allow his friendship with Walsh to cloud his judment and impede the Raiders chances for success. Leaders can't afford to make these types of mistakes. It made it that much more difficult for Shell to gain the respect and trust of the players. The NFL is a performance based industry. If you are a player who isn't performing up to standards or a coach who isn't getting results, there is always someone capable of taking your spot. The HC's primary role is to guide his staff and lead his players in such a way that their talents are maximized. This means putting your best players on the field and giving them the best possible chance to succeed through coaching, stategy, game planning, playcalling, and motivation.
There seems to be largely 2 types of successful head coaches. The strong, motivational leader who inspires his troops through his words and actions (ie. Madden, Lombardi, Parcells) or the strong, knowledgeable, tactician type who gets top flight results from his astute x's and o's acumen (ie. Landry, Belicik, Walsh).
I don't get the sense that Shell is either an x's and o's wizard or motivational leader. I also don't get the sense that he relates well or connects with the players. I have nothing against the man and I will support him if he is brought back for next season but I felt I needed to speak my piece. Go ahead BR, I'm sure you will have fun with this post! :)
CalicoJack: Just a Short Comment;
JP-was deactivated and suspended for some games but there are limits as to what an organization can do because of the NFLPA agreements...to just cut him makes him a winner and sends a message to all players they can do the same...and the money still counts aginst the cap and still gets paid to the player...the only release is if he is traded and the new team takes over the contract...although I did not like how BarrySanders was treated I do understand what they did and now no player wants to test that ground again...not against MattMillan...nor against ArtShell...
Moss...I think this is a deferant situation...everyone knows he is a "Mouth"...sometimes you just let some people talk because of who they are....it does no good to respond to it...and he was team Captain last year before Shell got here...and this is selected by the players not by the coaches....Walter is young and was being influenced in the wrong way and was to be the "FieldGeneral" so that is a differant situation also and needs to be handled seperatly...which it was and seems to be OK now....
But than we are all guessing at this point...but Shell only took matters to the "Mediot"s which had already been taken to them...he has not taken anything else outside the organization....
PantyRaider.....InConsistancies-are-Consistant!!!
Holy cow, Calico Jack, that was a great take. I'm having a hard time arguing with it.
PantyRaider,
I hear what you're saying, but I just cannot agree.
Porter, & Moss did not look into Shell's eyes and offer respect.
And what Moss did went beyond big mouth talking. He quit on the field, during games, for all to see. Moss pretty much stated through his actions that he had zero respect for Shell.
Shell's response ? He did nothing. He kept Moss in the lineup, and let him tank it week, after, week.
Not a good way to earn respect.
Your points about Alzado, & Long are good ones, but these guys had more then fierce looks on Sunday.
They made big plays when it counted. They did it in the clutch, and that's how they earned repect.
I get the feeling that in a close game, when leadership is really needed, no one is looking to Shell for the play that will win the game.
If the players felt that Shell had these answers, that would go a long way toward earning respect.
Calico, one cool, calm, coach you left out is the great Tom Flores.
I remember a nice, quote from Tom, he said he approached the game, "Like a shark, swimmming in the sea, without emotion, ready to kill". Great quote.
Flores was calm, even a bit quiet during games, but everyone watching knew he was in the game, and in control of the game.
I just don't get this same sense from Art Shell.
PR - I love your enthusiasm for the Raiders but I stand by my comments.
Porter: He was deactivated and suspended for insubordination. I'm fine with that. If a player doesn't want to be a Raider and/or Shell doesn't want him on the team, there are still remedies.
(1) Release JP and take the cap hit. Why have JP on the team if he does nothing for you? How exactly is JP a winner if we relese him and who really cares anyway? Deal with the problem and move on.
(2) Trade him. Why not get some value back? JP is obviously not in the Raiders future plans so you might as well get something (anything) back in return. I would have gladly taken a 5th round choice to ship his ass out of Alameda.
(3) Deactivate him the rest of the season and send him home just like Tampa Bay did with MeShawn Johnson.
If Shell really wants to send a clear and loud message, any of the above 3 remedies is better than how it was handled. None of these remedies are impacted by the NLFPA agreements.
If you cut through all the crap, you have to ask yourself one simple question. How are the Raiders a better team now or in the future with the way Porter's situation was handled?
Moss: I do agree that some players are treated differently. However in Moss' case it is the combination of his detrimental conduct AND lack of effort/productivity on the field that makes this unacceptable. No one would give a damn what he says off the field if he was giving 100% effort on the field which simply has not been the case. The "star" player who gets paid the most ($10M) needs to perform to be given this type of latitude. I don't believe the players select the Captains. I believe this is an honor bestowed by the HC. Even if the players did in fact select Moss as one of the Captains, this is all the more reason why Shell should have discussed Moss' radio rants directly with him. Something along the lines of "Randy you are a Captain and leader of this team. Act accordingly and knock off the BS or I will strip you of this honor and bench your ass." And please PR, don't bother telling me Shell doesn't have the authority to take such an action. Once again, Shell needs to set the tone, expectations, and standards for all of his men he's in charge of ESPECIALLY the F'n Captain of your team. This is unacceptable. With certain honors (like being a Captain) come obvious responsibilities. Why on earth would Shell condone Moss's polluted remarks about the franchise that he loves so much?
Walter: Walter's situation was handled by the following course of action: First Shell blasted Walter in the press and then didn't talk to him about it AT ALL. Walter is on record as saying that he never had a conversation about the incident with Shell. This is NOT how you manage people.
In all 3 cases cited above, Shell took a bad problem and made it worse ... further, there was a disconnect between the player and coach. All 3 examples can be described as "inaction, poor communication, and bad judgment".
I think it is high time for all Raider fans to stop making excuses for Davis, the coaching staff, and players. All of them need to be held accountable.
Making excuses is in essence lowering your standards and expectations. Payton and Mangini inherited similar difficult circumstances as 1st year coaches but found creative solutions to get their teams back on the right track. Payton turned over the roster before opening day and took a 3-13 team to 10-5. Mangini took over a talentless team from 4-12 to 9-6. The point being that with a dynamic, innovative HC it is possible to turn a franchise around.
The success of a team largely comes from a triangle of leadership; the owner, HC, and QB. Each part of our triangle I'm concerned about:
Davis: How is his health? Why has he been keeping such a low profile? Is the franchise organizational chart going to be altered? What is the status of Lombardi?
Shell: Is he coming back as HC or in a different role? Does he have what it takes to turn this thing around? Will he ever shake off the rust and get up to speed?
QB: Is Brooks coming back and if so, why? Will Walter ever become a #1 starter? Will he be given a 2nd chance to develop and be groomed? Why don't we have a top flight QB coach? Are we going to draft a QB or roll the dice with another free agent?
I wish I wasn't so concerned about our owner/HC/QB situation. I'm hopeful that these concerns will be properly addressed this off season.
Calico Jack: I’m on board dude. When do we storm the gates?
To take this one step further... maybe the problem is nepotism, or the at least the Raiders verison of nepotism. Maybe we have too many former Raiders players on the coaching staff and in the front office. Hiring family for the sake of “family” is no way to run a 3/4 billion corporation (undervalued due to horrific collapse). Hell, in his last interview, Al Davis more or less offered Run Run Jones’ son a job when he gets out of college.
So as not to completely turn my back on family, perhaps the front office is where many belong, but, please, no longer on the sidelines. Alternately, get some new former Raider player blood in there. How many of us would like to see Rich Gannon on the sideline? It’ll never happen, but you see my point. It might be time for some of the “untouchables” to step aside.
gees,some on here write about art like he is moses himself......he just has to look at you ,with those eyes so full of knowledge and greatness....really???? when i look at his eyes i see distance,i see confusion,i see insecurity. i see a guy who isn't really sure of himself,trys to use intimidation to compensate for lack of ability to cope... using the matt millen reference in his actions towards barry sanders and actually condoning it as proving a point..... wow,great move,you have the greatest running back in the world quit ,but you made your point..... what type of logic is this??? makes no sense.... calico jack,2 very good posts.
As I said, if there is NO respect amongst some players it matters NOT what a Coach does or who he is....the results will be the same and this is the situation with some of our "Crap" which needs to be taken out with the "Garbage"....Same goes for some So-Called Fans who are so "Negative" that they spend their whole time "Bashing" instead of lookin to suport anything in the organization....Why even speak to them???...I do NOT!!!
Raider00, CalicoJack, NYRaider:
You make points which can not be argued, sad but true, the "ONLY" support for Shell and Al in this is if indeed there is the "Mole" and the "TakeOver" attempt...this is the "ONLY" thing which explains how bad our team has become....if it does not exsist...we are in "DeepShit" and it become "Hopeless"....I do not want to see that be the reality so I hold on to a "Sliver-o-Hope"..."Hold-Fast-the-Helm" in faith that this "Nightmare" will soon end....if not...where the hell do we go from here????
PantyRaider...JustHoppinBaby!!!
How does Porter win???
If he is released and takes the money from the Raiders and goes to another team but the Raiders still take "Cap" hits for him as if he were on the team....if he is "Traded" the other team takes over the money to be paid...if he is just released the money continues to come from the Raiders...and a message is sent to the next guy who want's to act that way...if you want out of your contract you can act like Porter and "Screw" the Raiders....that is why no player wants to act that way now with the Lyons....because MattMillan stuck it to BarySanders in such a painful way they do not want to be next...but a player like Porter wins in his mind if he "Sticks-It" to his team and walks away for another PayCheck...."TO" is a good example...how many more of "Crap" players do we want to deal with...
NYRaider,
I'm confused. You say there are to many former Raiders on the sideline, but then say you would like to see Rich Gannon on the sideline.
What does this mean ???
Can't we just get the best possible people available for the job for a change.
The "Raiderway" in Oakland is a flop, and the "Raiderway", in Detroit is a flop.
Case closed.
Sorry PR but your are babbling. Let's stick to the facts.
If Porter is released, he would be paid the rest of his 2006 contract but no future money from the Raiders for 2007, 2008, etc. If he signs with another team, he would negotiate a new contract BUT here are the points that your are forgetting:
If Porter is released by the Raiders, (1) other NFL teams look at him like he is damaged goods not worth persuing (2) JP's market value and future earnings go down drastically
How again is he a winner if this happens? Do you really think that an NFL player wants to jeopardize his career, future earnings, and reputation by being labeled a malcontent? If JP is released he loses all of his leverage to secure employment and the best possible contract.
as far a sticking it to them to get respect......WRONG. it's not the way to garner respect.. respect needs to be earned by running a team PROPERLY,not through intimidation with one player and the complete opposite to others... you mention since barry sanders that no one will mess with millen...well look what wonders it has done to that organization..look at the results,they tell you the WHOLE story...if you think running a team like art or millen is the right way...then there is no sense even listening to you because you are completely WRONG..... you get respect by treating players firmly but with respect,you HAVE to be consistent from wr's to qb's to d-lineman..there can't be one favored over others for what ever reasons like moss and brooks are being favored....you say art wants to cut out the players that are ruining this team,why did moss play at all this year?? why did jordan continue to play after speaking out?? why is brooks playing???? then there is the barry sims quote today,saying how he can respect that he is being sat but he can't accept the coach not playing the best players at their positions.... it is all these things that add up to a leader that really isn't a leader,you want to make out that art is george patton when in REALITY,he is more like gomer pyle......you also gain respect by making good gameday decisions,art doesn't do that ( just look up sapp's latest comments about why he blew up on the sidelines against the chefs). no,barking at the players,trying to be the dominant figure head won't work unless you are really good at what you do and art isn't even close... i can accept being positive but being positive and glossing over obvious flaws is just ridiculous.
CalicoJack:
Understanding Porter:
last year JP came in talking about how he is the next "TO"....and than at the begaining of this year he started acting like it...than he came to camp all "Buffed" and the "Mediot"s reported how he looks like "TO" because of his "NewBody"....he thinks he is such a Great WR that the other team will pay him more for defecting...Stupid but a Reality in his mind...and maybe his Agent's...and maybe the "Mole" or who ever is pulling his strings...and he thinks he can "Stick-it-to" the Raiders this way....If he is released the Raiders still have to pay him his garenteed money and the rest of his signing bonus...which is pro-rated over 3-5 years against the Cap whether he in on the team or not...Only if he is traded does this money go away because the new team picks up the "Tab"..that makes it more difficult to get a trade where the Raiders also get something out of it besides the "Cap" money and the "SigningBonus" money...and this whole thing started because Shell was made coach...JP wants him out and has taken it to the limit to make it happen...the word is "Defiant"....a man such as this does not think in resonable terms....he becomes "Incorigable"-n-"Insabordinate"....he has NO Respect and can not show what he does not have....therefore he is the worst type of "Cancer"...a milignant groath that infects everyone around him...in my world we take care of a punk like that...he has an accident and is off the "JobSite"....but I guess things don't happen that way in the NFL anymore....but he would not have survived on the Old Raider Teams...
Moss is in this same situation...but I don't think Moss is the same type of "HeadCase" as JP....he is a "Mouth" and he is "Lazy"....an Uncommited and Non-Physical player who "LaysDown" if he is not the "Center-o-Attention"...but even when he "LaysDown" he still draw alot of attention from the "D" as a "Decoy"...But I agree..I would have benched him early on but I do not make that decission...Curry is Heads above this jerk....
I'm not sure about the deal with TB and MeShawn-J...but the NFLPA had to "Sign-Off" on any action that sent him home for the season...the player can sign a "Grevance" and it goes to "Arbitration" so TB must have won at the "Arbitration"....
Shell lost half of the "Suspention" with the NFLPA so JP was allowed back on the team....You can't stop it...it is part of the "UnionAgreement"..."ColectiveBarganingAgreement"...It sucks I know....I was a Union Worker for 30 years in the SteelTrades and we had to put up with the "LameSlugs" because they would "LayDown" and cry to the Unions....that is until an accident removed him from the site...but such a worthless punk as that still thinks he is a winner because now he gets to sit home a draw free money...so go figure....I never could....
BarrySanders was a totally differant type of player but late in his career he wanted out of Detroit...so he tried to "Retire" and get "Released" so he could sign a contract with a new team....and the Raiders were in the market...but the Lyons refused to release him from the contract and allow him to retire....that ment that he still counted against their "Cap"....MattMillan told him he would have to "RePay" his "SigningBonus" inorder to be "Retired"....he did not want to do that and was never allowed back in the game unless it was with the Lyons....it was a "Brutal" move by MattMillan but it sent a very strong message..."don't try that shit here"....personally I think the Lyons owed something to BarrySanders for all that he had done for them in the past but I don't make those decissions...the Lyons wanted something more out of him in a "Trade" and were willing to "Stick-it-to-em" for the profits...
Other teams follow a differant path...Phylly traded "TO" and gave him what he wanted..."TO" signed for "BigBucks" with Dallas and it is just a matter of time until he "MeltsDown" again....SadFranchiseWinners did the same thing with "TO"....just get him out of here....but that opens the door for the next "Punk" with an "Attitude"...so I understand what MattMillan did and I understand what the Raiders are doing...it's ugly but so is life sometimes...
So how do you build "Commitment"...how do you bring back the feeling the the "Team has your back and you have the Teams back"....and each player has eachothers "Back"....Remember what HowieLong said about the season when Shanahan was coach....the team lost the feeling that anybody has their "Back"...and that returned when Shell took over...it's an "InHouse" type of thing....and it is a tough thing to have if the "UnionWorkers" think only the "Union" has their "Backs"....BechtalCorp was one of the few companies I work for that gave us the feeling that they cared and had our "Backs" and we worked hard for them as a result...its a tough thing to build and to teach and does not come overnight....but I think the players on the "D" are buying into it....and hopefully a few players on the "O" like Curry...Morant..Walter..etc
PantyRaider...Lable-da-Defiant!!!
JP and LJ were put on "IR" and a "S"-n-"TE" were signed to the "ActiveRoster" from the "PracticeSquad"...why wasn't the move to put JP on the "IR" taken sooner???...Good Question...Go Figure!!!
PantyRaider...Scratchin-da-Head!!!
Raider00: my 5:39 post is not so confusing. Out with the old guard, in with the new, as you say, qualified coaches. My including Rich Gannon was merely a hedge that allows the Raiders to maintain their ridiculous tradition of nepotism.
To all: Check the following three very simplified case studies and see if you can “follow the bee.”
Case Study #1: Jets were 4-12 last year, hired a new coach and after 15 weeks have improved to 9-6. Now they need only beat the Raiders (in a game which they are heavily favored) to gain a wildcard birth in the playoffs.
Case Study #2: Saints were 3-13 last year, survivors of one of the worst natural disasters of our time. They hire a new head coach (along with widespread player personnel changes) and improve to 10-5 and a division championship.
Case Study #3: Raiders were 4-12 last year, hire a new head coach and “improve” to 2-13 (with one victory purely at the hands of our defense). What’s wrong with this picture?
NYRaider - Coincidentally, both Mangini and Payton were interviewed by the Raiders in 2004 for our DC Coordinator and HC openings. Further, if Al didn't extend Ryan's contract this past off-season, Ryan would be the DC for the Jets.
And let's not forget that Mangini, & Jets, started a rookie center,(Mangold), & a rookie LT,(Furgeson), on the 0-line.
Who could forget the Raiders 0line, & all the excuses offered up each week.
Young guys, switching positions, new coaching, on, and on it went.
Winners don't make excuses, they just win baby.
NYRaider:
I have a Question...Did the Jets and Saints focus their attention on the "O" this season...if I remember that is what happened....we gave very little attention to the "O" and now see the result....NOT so good...but the "D" on the other hand is looken very good....
CaseStudy #4.#5.#6..Compair the "D"s on those teams for a compleat picture...
Jet's "D" is #27 and sucks so now they will no doubt spend time and money in that dept...they gave up 400 more yds than they gained on "O" and 30 more first downs and only scored 1 point higher than their oponets but are about to make the PlayOff's...at 10-6...to what do we give credit for that...GreatCoaching and GamePlanning no doubt...and maybe soft compition...or lucky bounces...something has work out for them but it ain't the Stats...
Saints "D" is #11 and gave up 1300 less yards than they gained...and 75 fewer first downs...and gave up 101 less points for the season...pretty damn good "D"...but was it a good "D" last year....I don't remember...but you can make #'s lie depending on how you list them...but I will not take any credit away from the Saints...they earned their PlayOff and their DivissionChampionship...We did not earn anything...NOT with our "O"...
Raider's "D"..is #4...and gave up 550 more yds than they gained...gave up 17 more first downs than they gained..and gave up 144 more points than they scored...GO Figure....so much improvment on one side of the ball and so much DeProvement on the other....Oh! That "O"...."SUCKS"
CaseStudy #7...a story made in "Heaven"..the Raiders after focussing their attention on rebuilding a "Desacrated" "O" make the PlayOff's in "07"...."Really"???
PantyRaider....JustDreaminBaby!!!
Let's not pretend that the Raiders haven't focused at all on the offense in the past few years ... it just has been some bad decisions with free agents, trades, and the draft:
KFC - bust
Brooks - bust
Jordan - marginal
Moss - underachiever
Gallery - #2 pick; bust
As far as the Jets and Saints turning things around, it hasn't been lucky bounces or easy schedules.
It has been HCs who have maximized their team's talent and managed their personnel. It has been QBs who have managed the game and were the undisputed leaders of their unit. Take a look at 99% of the successful NFL teams in the league and what is the common denominator? Above average HC and QB. Why? Because these 2 men are your Alpha Dog 1 and 1A leaders of the team.
Great takes, Calico!
I almost mirrored your assessment of Art Shell as HC on my blog. (I promise, I wrote mine before I read your take.)
I admire PR's loyalty, but I think it's a little blind.
I've been a real die-hard fan for 35 years and you just have to open your eyes and call 'em as you see 'em at some point and put down the glass of kool aid.
I highly recommend that the folks still slurping on the S&B kool-aid to put their mugs down for just a quick minute and read X's latest blog installment.
X is exactly right ... Shell's return for the sake of "stability" is a very shallow reason indeed.
It is almost comical (and sad at the same time) how all the Raiders fans clamoring for Shell to return are saying things like ...
"if we hire a great OC, draft really well, and sign a few key free agents, then we'll be fine with Shell"
Well that is all fine and dandy and we should do those things BUT what exactly is Shell bringing to the table? It is almost like saying that we can turn things around if the above things happen IN SPITE of Shell.
In all honesty, is this any reason for a HC to return? Would anyone in their right mind consider this season "stable"? Shouldn't the fact that this is the worst Raider team in the history of the franchise concern you? Shouldn't the fact that this is the 5th lowest scoring team in the history of the NFL worry you? Shell's one noted "expertise" is the O-line. 70 sacks and no running game later, how's that O-line looking under Shell's watch?
Here is a quick job description / job requirement checklist to consider:
(1) Is Shell good at managing the game?
(2) Is Shell good at managing and motivating his personnel?
(3) Are the Raiders more disciplined under Shell's watch?
(4) Is Shell an X's and O's wizard?
(5) Is Shell good at game planning, playcalling or stategy?
(6) Does Shell put his best players on the field?
(7) Is Shell creative or innovative?
(8) Does Shell communicate well with his players and staff?
(9) Is he good at evaluating and hiring his staff?
And last and most importantly,
(10) If Shell wasn't a former HOF Raider player, would we even be having this conversation?
If you concentrate just on what
happened this season (2 wins, worst offense, no road wins, no divisional wins, NO IMPROVEMENT throughout the season) and HC "Smith" was at the helm, wouldn't it be unanimous to fire HC "Smith"?
For all the Raider fans in support of Shell's return, please tell us how Shell (not draft choices, OC's, etc) will turn things around by what he brings to the table? Or better yet, just name 1 aspect of being a HC that Shell is good at.
Lastly, I respect, admire, and like Shell but those are not good reasons to bring him back. The health and the welfare of the Raiders TEAM always supercedes any feelings I might have for an individual player or coach.
CalicoJack:
We see ArtShell thru differant glasses...I can see his leadership on this team just as I saw it when he was here before....you do not see that leadership...I understand that...there are maney who see things your way and they saw it that way when Shell was coach in the "90"s too and talked the same "Shit"...but his leadership brings a "Tough-n-Proud" team who will NOT lay down...and I can see that building on this team...as for the QB we all know that is a "Weakness" at this time....Walter is young and under fire from the "D"s he faces and "Air"Brooks is a "Flop" just as he was in "NO"...NOT a leader...
And I am not picking on the Jets-n-Saints coaches...I am saying look at the stats for the jets and tell me how they are a 10-6 team....but the Saints have ballance on both sides of the ball and have "OutPlayed" their compitition...they earned that "DivisionTital"...but I think...if I remember right....they already had a pretty good "D" last year...it was their only streingth...so in comparison now that the Raiders have that streingth on "D" it will be posible to build the "O" and turn it around for this team....that was the "Comparison" in regards to the "CaseStudy"s from NYRaider....
X:
I have been "Drunk" on this "KoolAid" sence "62"...When I was "12"...and the only year I really lost hope was "97" when I sailed back from Hawaii and landed at Berkeley 8-24....just in time for the first season at home for my beloved Raiders...and than I got to watch a team that was compleatly without heart...you talk about a coach that was lost...it was JoeBungles...that team lost all emotion...they walked on the field with their shoulders low and their heads down and played "Flat" the entire game...I was one of maney who "Cried" that year....in "Shame"...
I will tell you true...I see none of that this year...My "D" is tall and proud...I see young players on the "O" playing their hearts out...and on "ST"....I saw none of that in "97"....it was "Discraceful"....so "YES"...I am still "Drunk" on this "KoolAid" because I can see hope in this team....and now I look forward to next year...I believe Shell will get it done...
That "97" season was the 3rd year after Shell was fired and the team compleatly lost it's will to compete...it took WillieShaw-n-JohnGruden 3 years to turn it around to where our team was a "Winner" again...I am telling you that Shell will do it in his 2nd year....that is what I see....the "O" will have the same passion as we see on the "D" when they take the field next season...
So now it is time for the "Pridiction"....early in the season I made the "Pridiction" before the Cardinal game that the Raiders would win their next 2 home games....Cards-n-Pitts.....now I will folow it up with a "Pridiction" for the SeasonFinale"....my 3-13 Raiders are going to kick some "Jet"s Ass tomoro morning....
Key's to the game...the "O" hangs onto the damn ball...NOT 5 turnovers a week as in the past 3-4 weeks....They play with emotion....they want to end the season and go into next year "LookinUp"...and as usual the "Jets" ran their mouth..."FiredUp-n-Angry" my Raiders will take the field...they know they can run against the Jets....and the jets have trouble running the ball....and if "Chadster" is forced to though against our "D" he will go down in falmes...even our "Sick" "O" will move the ball against this "WeakAss" Jet's "D"...so they will play into our hands...because they are lookin ahead and over confident...as they look to just "Stroll" past the "Hapless" Raiders on their way to the "PlayOffs"....
And as usual...is I am wrong everybody will know it...but as I said early on in this "discusting" season..."I would rather be wrong in support of my team than to be right and standing against them"
PantyRaider...JustKoolAidBaby!!!!
Hay CalicoJack:
That's great timming....9:65PM but you must have pushed your button first...
Leadership: "Attitude" is about winning...you have heared it before where a team has a "WinningAttitude" and that comes from the coaching and player leadership....running is an "Attitude" where we are going to "Knock" you off the ball and run down your throat....but it takes time to gain that "Attitude" when a team does not have it...when did we loose it....probibly after the "SB" in SD....we came out flat and lost and have lost ever sence....Coaching is not just about X's-n-O's or gettin in a mans face or maken gameplans...it's about instilling an "Attitude"....
I have been in sports most of my life...from "63" when I got my first letter in Track to fighting in ternaments at the age of "45" in "95"....from Rodeo to racing DirtBikes...to ParasaillingCaptain to singlehanding a TransPac in "95"....to SportFishing Captain in Hawaii....and when ever I was involved in a team sport I had a Coach or a Master who "Demanded" respect....and there was NO tollerance for anything short of that...and that training helped me as a Captain...Master/Mate US Coast Gaurd "93"....and I see that leadership in CoachShell....and some players have already bought into it...especially on the "D"....but he will instill it in the entire team and get rid of the "Insabordination" that exist now...that is what a good coach does...and a Shell coached team will NOT lay down on the fans....
PantyRaider....JustBelievingbaby!!
PR - As a diehard fan since 1970, my interest, support, and passion for the Raiders is not negotiable.
An honest, fair, objective, and critical view does not mean you support your team any less than the fan who turns a blind eye. Why should I lower my expectations by lowering my standards?
Just curious but how many of the 10 questions that I posed did you honestly answer "yes"?
CalicoJack:
We will no doubt disagree but I am answering according to what I know about ArtShell from the past and presant and not according to what the Stupid Damn "Mediot"s write about him so here goes...
#2-Yes
#3-yes and both questions go together..a positive attitude toward commitment and dissaplain and toughness is developing
#6-yes...but you have to look past the problems in player attitude on this team to see it...was Porter a better WR than Whitted...Yes...but was he good for the team overall...No...are Curry and Morant better...yes...but they had to learn something first...what type of commitment and loyalty it takes to get playing time...I think Curry understood it but did Morant....he had problems comming out of college with attitude....Curry was comming off injury so he was brought along slowly
#7-yes...in the past he is the one who came up with the "UnbalancedLine" which is also used by other coaches today...
#8-yes...but again look past the players with problems and a mouth...and look at the players who are buying into what Shell teaches...to the toughness and "SmashMouth" Football
#9-Yes-n-No...the jury is still out on this...did he make mistakes....yes I believe he did...but is it all mistakes....NO...I do not believe it is
#10-Can't be answered...if Shell was not a Raider from the begaining he would not be here now because he was brought in to re-instill the old Raider Way...period...and than probibly move to the front office
Is he the best posible coach at these questions...I would not say that...but is he able and effective...yes he is and things go alot deeper than these questions...
PantyRaider...AnsweringHonest!!!
Bama7
Great job Calico Jack, NY Raider and others. You've nailed it. Art Shell brings nothing to the table. Unfortunately I just can't see Al letting him go because it would be Al admitting that he himself doesn't have a clue what he is doing.
No decent coach will take the job anyway. Imagine the interviews with Peyton, Whisenhunt and all other qualified candidates in the past (with Al):
Al: "The job's yours if you want it... here's a few things however... your WR coach is Freddie B, your DB coach is Willie Brown... your trainer is Rid Martin... your DC is Ryan... you're going run the old Raider long ball offense... and Tom Walsh will probably be your OC... I'll be picking your draft and also your free agents. I'll also prowl the practice field when able and do a little coaching of techinique."
Head coach Prospect: "What is it I do?"
Al: "Hold the whistle, answer questions after the game... don't mention me if things go bad... give me credit if they go good... pick up your check on Friday. Goyt it?"
Coaching prospect: "Uh, no thanks."
Shell heard all this and said, "I can do that boss."
Calico Jack, your 9:56 post pretty much says it all. The only item I had any hesitation answering “NO” was #3, but I was probably confusing discipline of players being on time to meetings and players not making stupid mistakes on the field. Considering the latter and the Raiders penalty prowess and league-leading turnovers, the answer, again, is NO!
PR: I understand your loyalty and it is to be commended for sure. However, remember, this was not supposed to be a rebuilding year. The Raiders (and most fans) believed right from the beginning that the players and coaches were in place to make a playoff run. Instead, we went the opposite direction. Now, as it turns out, the weakest part of our team is clearly what we all perceived as our coaches’ strength... the O-line.
For anyone still on the fence, today is the last “free pass” for Art and gang. No more excuses starting Tuesday! For everybody else, hang on because Art will get another year, as sure as his middle name is "Raider-Family."
calico jack-
No doubt Shell didn't meet the criteria you listed for this season. However, using your same criteria we wouldn't have Rob Ryan here this year after his first TWO seasons. Rob Ryan was given time to get this defense to where it is today. This is his third year. Shouldn't Shell at least be given two years to do the same for the team overall?
As the Lions go up 39-31 on the Cowboys, here are more unfortunate points to ponder ...
Jon Kittna has more TD passes today (4) than either Brooks (3)or Walter (3) has for the ENTIRE season.
The F'n Lions have scored almost as many points in today's game (39) than the Raiders have scored (45) in an ENTIRE season's worth of 2nd halves.
I guess I should be happy that the Raiders have "earned" the #1 pick but it just feels very hollow.
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