Comments on Raider Take - The Original Oakland Raiders Blog: Vikings Gameday Thread

Scorpio, thanks for the cool take. Postgame take...

2011-11-21T16:51:40.580-08:00

Scorpio, thanks for the cool take.

Postgame take is up.

Blanda - If true, the league has just insulted t...

2011-11-21T16:44:42.369-08:00

Blanda -

If true, the league has just insulted the intelligence of every football fan that watched the game.

Sure the Raiders deserve to be the most penalized team, but let's not pretend all of those calls were spot on. Where's the explanation that Jackson politely requested?

Scorpio - Nice words.

This has become a very bitter sweet season, with the loss of Al Davis and long-anticipated successes the Raiders have recently demonstrated, including assemblage of a coaching staff and personnel by Davis himself. The man's legacy is playing out its final chapter.

IMO, that's what makes this season so special. This season is on (and for) Al Davis.

The Raiders need to stay focused and play every game with that sole purpose.

PR - thanks. I think the events of the season and some special circumstances presented by some regular participants here have shed a new light for all of us.

Re above. The Raiders used to have a sign hanging...

2011-11-21T15:06:58.126-08:00

Re above. The Raiders used to have a sign hanging in their locker room. "We Encourage Cheating!"

Just so there is no misunderstanding about my posi...

2011-11-21T14:54:57.900-08:00

Just so there is no misunderstanding about my position regarding the penalties.

To accept from the NFL that no bias exists is to believe that your eyes lie to you week after week after week. You ignore the vast evidence to the contrary.

That said, as I have previously stated that this has been going on since the 70s. There is absolutely nothing the team, the coaches, the players or the fans can do about it. Al Davis could never do anything about it. It is, quite simply, a fact of life.

So how do you instruct a team to deal with this fact of life? You tell them to deal with it. The great Raider teams of the past were well penalized too! You suck it up, and you win right in their faces. You mutter under your breath, "if you're going to stop us, you're going to have to get far more blatant than that." Learn to love those yellow flags because it means that you're doing everything on every play to win for the Raiders, and the flags make you play that much harder.

The great Raider teams of the past could convert on 3rd and 25. That's why the rest of the league hated them so. This is the first Raider team that I've seen in, like, forever that has the talent to also convert on 3rd and 25s. This is the first Raider team I've seen since Madden's teams who have the out and out ability to "take what we want."

The offense is getting better every week. The defense is hobbled. They're inconsistent. They need to get healthy, and the youngsters need to step it up a bit. I'd love to see at least a couple of games this year where everyone is healthy.

But we're a game up in first place. We control our own destiny.

>>>> Also, Palmer had a 107 raging, th...

2011-11-21T14:54:00.771-08:00

>>>>
Also, Palmer had a 107 raging, threw two TD’s with no INT’s. He didn’t have to throw that much because we ran for over 160 and had a 10 minute advantage in time of possession.
>>>>

I am kinda a stat guy, but god I hate that rating.

His rating against Minn was no doubt better than SD (I don't know where to find that stat) and Palmer was nearly flawless vs SD.

Sunday he had a few crucial overthrows, and he got happy feet in the red-zone while still having plenty of time. He was also off on a lot of his touch passes which our receivers made up for with tremendous catches.

The only difference stat-wise is the interception, which was due to getting sacked vs SD.

If Carson had played like he did vs SD, this wouldn't have been close at all.

>>> Holding downfield on a running play i...

2011-11-21T14:43:11.928-08:00

>>>
Holding downfield on a running play is a spot foul. The offense starts on the 30. They score on a running play. But a hold is flagged at the 12. It’s a 10 yard penalty accessed from the 12 and the ball is placed at the 22. But first down is repeated and the score is taken off the board. Had the hold occured at the 9, it would have been 1st and 10 from the 19.
>>>>

Ok, that was simpler than I was thinking. Thanx for the help.

>>>> Frankly, Palmer is the best QB we...

2011-11-21T14:35:55.464-08:00

>>>>
Frankly, Palmer is the best QB we've had since Stabler. I'd say Plunkett, but he's got the arm and leadership of Plunk, but he's more accurate than Plunk.
>>>>

Uhh Blanda... Gannon won a MVP with the Raiders.

I'd put him in the top 3.

Stabler.
Gannon.
Palmer.

I'm already starting to get as critical of Palmer as I was with Gannon.

Missing 2-3 crucial passes is an "off game."

Palmer had an off game vs Minn.

The league has spoken. ALL of the flags thrown ag...

2011-11-21T14:16:12.426-08:00

The league has spoken. ALL of the flags thrown against the Raiders were completely justified and a fine may be levied on Jackson for daring to suggest otherwise.

I'm sorry, but I reviewed the three personal fouls on the Vikes second drive of the day. Not ONE of the three was a legitimate flag. NOT ONE! Kelly never touched the head of the QB. He was grabbing for the shoulder and that's where his hand came down. The one on Curry - the offensive player turned into Curry which was the reason for the helmet to helmet contact. On the late hit, the player's momentum was clearly carrying the player into the tackle before the tackle was made.

So the NFL (who brings you America's game) does NOT believe in American principles. If the NFL pisses on your leg, you are only allowed two choices and the truth isn't one of them. You can either say, "Oh, my, it's RAINING," or you can say "THANK YOU!"

What must never be spoken is that the NFL will decide who wins and who loses on Sunday.

panty, I WAS negative - about al davis. and i reme...

2011-11-21T14:05:35.260-08:00

panty,
I WAS negative - about al davis. and i remember having only a couple of you folks in my corner at that time. but i learned how to tone it down because everyone here is respectful and pretty cool in general. and i NEVER bash my team. i might have some criticisms about certain aspects ie: this inconsistent defense. at the games, i've never booed the team or any player EVER. that is until russell came along. i'm just itching to get back in the superbowl that's all...

scorpio... I remember that you have been negative...

2011-11-21T13:48:17.753-08:00

scorpio...

I remember that you have been negative at times but never to the point of outright bashing the Raiders...I don't remember you ever being of that group...Just for the record...

And by the way if someone deserves their props it's "NYR" who has really done a role reversal and remained positive threw most of this season...We most certainly had our very foul moments be he has earned my respect...

PantyRaider...Just For The Record!!!/_

As for me...Well...Even as an old bastard I'm still ready for the fight...LoL!!!

you know what? can i say something here that is TO...

2011-11-21T12:13:25.335-08:00

you know what? can i say something here that is TOTALLY off topic?

i've been participating in this blog for the last few years. seen some nice posters come and go over those years. and every time i come across a raider fan i always refer them here. this blog has been one of the most insightful blogs on the internet. raider fans in general are some of the most knowledgeable fans in the league. to be completely honest, i haven't done that in the recent past because i've been turned-off the last few months because of all the swearing, name-calling and bad feelings towards someone who makes their comment known here on raider take. hell, i should talk - i started on this blog as a HEAVY al davis critic. i'm sure raider take can attest to that. but i have learned to tone it down in my old age. i've seen that all of us have respected each other's opinion - especially lately, without the name-calling and swearing.

i just want to give props to you guys, most especially gary and panty for your respectful opinions here. i think we can all agree that the raider nation is one family. sometimes family members agree, sometimes they disagree on some things, but in general we all want one thing - to win. i'm not saying you guys or anyone else has gotten soft because we're all winners here!

i want what al davis wanted and what you all want and that's just win baby!

thanks take and everyone. let me be the first to wish everyone a very happy thanksgiving!

blanda, i never said he wasn't worth two 1st r...

2011-11-21T11:54:03.295-08:00

blanda, i never said he wasn't worth two 1st round picks. because the trade was so very expensive i said that those two 1st round picks (and they WILL end up being 1st round picks; 2012 and a second in 2013 IF they win "A" playoff game, then it becomes a 1st) would only be worth it IF he takes us to the superbowl and wins it. in that scenario, those 2 1st rounders would'nt matter because they'd be so low. i acknowledge the fact that palmer is our best qb since stabler. i never said he "sucked".

i'm not saying that i'm NOT on board with the trade, i just think we could've gotten him for less (maybe only 1 1st rounder) and that's where a qualified GM comes in. we don't need a rookie head coach making personnel decisions.

so reggie bush, ryan grant, matt forte and whomever else gets thrown at us these next few games - they're NOT gonna run on us like they did in our losses right? they're gonna find themselves right? consistency is the key. if they haven't found it by now, hopefully they find it soon.

One more thing on a positive note. Janikowski was...

2011-11-21T11:51:49.655-08:00

One more thing on a positive note. Janikowski was kicking the ball inside the five without a runup and a bad hammy. There's not doubt he has the strongest leg in the league. I hope he is healed for the playoffs. If it's a close game we will need him.

H

According to Lovie Smith, Cutler will be out "...

2011-11-21T11:44:52.674-08:00

According to Lovie Smith, Cutler will be out "an extended period of time."

H

Funny thing to me...The accusation was that some o...

2011-11-21T11:42:06.022-08:00

Funny thing to me...The accusation was that some of us were making excuses for our losses...That citing bad calls was just one of those excuses...

But now this was a "V" and the subject of the very bad calls is raised...Looks to me like someone is making excuses for the "Zebra" that made them??...Than it seem that someone is diminishing this "V" because it wasn't good enough???

The bad calls and non-calls are very well documented...Some of the most famous have names...

Immaculate Deception
Tuck Rule
Belly Flop...One that wasn't even called...

This game was full of both verity...Called and un-called...But detrimental to us...

Scorpio...What's your take on Hue being penalized for throwing the red flag to challenge a "TD" that was evidently never reviewed???

PantyRaider...Nail'em To The Wall Hue!!!/_

I think our defense will be basically fine when we...

2011-11-21T11:01:58.807-08:00

I think our defense will be basically fine when we get over a few injuries. We're very depleted at DB, the position we were thinnest at already.

As for fourth quarter scoring, on each of those occasions I lay it on Jackson. He's trying to mild the clock for the win, a strategy I've always hated because it allows the other team to climb back in with unanswered points. You can't afford to start milking the clock until you get down to where the other team will use it's timeouts.

With Palmer, I think this team is almost to the point where it can score at will. That will definitely be true when McFadden and all of the injured receivers are back in the line up.

Scorpio, you said earlier that Palmer wasn't worth the two number ones unless he brought us the playoffs. Well, unless we reach the AFC Championship game either this year or next, we don't owe Cincy that other #1. That was one of the conditions.

Frankly, Palmer is the best QB we've had since Stabler. I'd say Plunkett, but he's got the arm and leadership of Plunk, but he's more accurate than Plunk.

Scorpio, So, you're saying that when players ...

2011-11-21T10:53:00.402-08:00

Scorpio,

So, you're saying that when players and coaches come to the Raiders they just throw everything they've been taught and teach out the window. That it is "always" the fault of the team, that the refs are "always" correct? And, a refs has never made a bad call that cost a team a game or a playoff spot?

The SEC suspended a crew for two weeks a season or two ago because of a mixture of bad calls and missed calls.

The refs are human. They read the press and listen to the media. They are fans of the game, so they keep up with it. They know the reputations of the teams.

Some crews are more prone to calling penalties than others, so which crew is correct, the one more prone, or the one less prone?

A huge chunk of the rules are subjective depending on how the ref saw it. Frankly, I'm surprised they aren't throwing a flag on every play. Hell, there's almost always contact beyond the five yard limit, why is it called sometimes and sometimes not?

Just asking.

H

Oh, yeah. We were also +4 in turnovers. We shoul...

2011-11-21T10:39:32.003-08:00

Oh, yeah. We were also +4 in turnovers. We should have had over 30 points.

H

H, if this defense was anywhere close to consisten...

2011-11-21T10:37:00.206-08:00

H, if this defense was anywhere close to consistent game to game, we wouldn't even be discussing this. but the defense is what it is, and that's not ready for prime time! i still think we'll make the playoffs. i'm not at all worried about that scoring in the 4th quarter issue but this defense (and their penalties) will carry us only so far...

The Raiders have been routinely the highest penali...

2011-11-21T10:34:37.921-08:00

The Raiders have been routinely the highest penalized team in the league since the 1970s. In that time, they've gone through 12 head coaches (who routinely take responsibility and say that they don't believe that it's a matter of bias), they have changed over personnel countless times. The players routinely take responsibility even though they never had calls like that playing for other teams. And yet we are regularly asked to believe that it's just a matter of the Raiders being "the dumbest team in America," and having "a criminal mindset."

With three, back to back to back, ridiculous calls by the officials, I saw them award the Purple Pants the game's first TD by awarding them with 45 free yards and 3 free first downs. After knowing and admitting that each of the calls were bad, the announcers still tell us "the Raiders shot themselves in the foot on that drive." The truth? The Raiders were hosed on that drive.

If it walks like a biased duck, quacks like a biased duck, and swims like a biased duck, it's a biased duck. Sometimes a biased cigar is just a biased cigar.

Gary, Holding downfield on a running play is a sp...

2011-11-21T10:29:11.455-08:00

Gary,

Holding downfield on a running play is a spot foul. The offense starts on the 30. They score on a running play. But a hold is flagged at the 12. It’s a 10 yard penalty accessed from the 12 and the ball is placed at the 22. But first down is repeated and the score is taken off the board. Had the hold occured at the 9, it would have been 1st and 10 from the 19.

It’s the same way in college, but for some reason you see it called a little more in college. Doesn’t get called often, but it happens.

Also, Palmer had a 107 raging, threw two TD’s with no INT’s. He didn’t have to throw that much because we ran for over 160 and had a 10 minute advantage in time of possession.

Scorpio,

Here’s my view of the penalties/refs. Not an excuse, just analysis. For roughly fifteen years this team has changed coaches, playing personnel, etc. Players come to the team from other teams and suddenly they are committing more penalties than they did with the other team. Jackson was a coach at Baltimore, Washington, and Atlanta, low penalties. Waufle was DL coach with the Giants, low penalties. His penalty levels were probably higher in his first stint with the Raiders than with the Giants. Same coach, same techniques.

The team brings refs to camp. Now they are bringing them to practices in season. They are doing everything the league asks them to do in this area. I recall Gallery got called for holding at a very critical time in a game. Might have been a scoring play. Later that week he said that was the way they were doing it in camp when the refs were visiting.

Excuse me for being somewhat Jaded, but logic dictates there’s a little more to it. I’m not saying it’s a conspiracy. You have to kill too many people to keep it quiet. I’m saying that when it comes to penalties, the Raiders do not get the benefit of the doubt. If they’re not sure, well it’s the Raiders so they must have. And, when the announcers say things like, “Well he did make a football move, which is the definition in the rule.” Also, Tommy Kelly was held, but he was penalized and the RG was not.

Plus, how many times do you hear that they don't officiate as closely during the playoffs. They let them play. Excuse me. But, if you are going to be consistant, if it's a penalty during the season, it's a penalty during the playoffs and vice versa.

Having said all that, with a 10 minute TOP difference we should have had at least one more TD even with the penalties.

H

Scorpio... Maybe you need to take a closer look.....

2011-11-21T10:12:42.658-08:00

Scorpio...

Maybe you need to take a closer look...

Our Rush "D" went up against the #5 Rush "O" and played very damn well...

From "J-Mac":

"The 124 yards rushing and 5.2 yards per carry average against the Vikings was deceiving with Ponder getting 71 yards on scrambles. Peterson, before he was hurt, and Toby Gerhart gained 44 yards on 13 carries (3.4 yards per carry)."

That same "D" took the ball away 4 freakin times with one added by "ST"s...

This "D" has played well 2 weeks in a row and I suspect will continue to do so at home against the Bears...And it's NOT our problem if they lose their "RB" and "QB"....We also lost ours along with most of our "WR"s too...

Simple fact is without the help from the "Zebra" this game was never even close...

And when did we "Almost Lose This Game"???

They never had the lead so how were they ever close to winning???

Gary...

Did you see how poorly this "D" played with McClain out???

PantyRaider..."D" Is A Work In Progress That's Progressing!!!/_

>>>> I was thinking the Nickle with &q...

2011-11-21T10:00:44.167-08:00

>>>>
I was thinking the Nickle with "MM" designated "Spy" with the orders to take him down..
>>>>

No thanx to this. MM shouldn't even be on the field. Did you see the play where he blitzed and Ponder simply stepped beside him and took off running?

The guy doesn't understand football angles.

Curry is a BEAST when the play is in front of him, he woulda KILLED Ponder on that play... thats why I want him to be the spy.

McClain looks better in coverage, but he still lik...

2011-11-21T09:55:01.010-08:00

McClain looks better in coverage, but he still likes to take on blockers when the play is coming towards him instead of shedding them and making a play on the RB... same as Morrison did his whole career.

Is it possible our LB's coach is TEACHING these guys that?? Basically what doing so means is you are giving up on making the play and hoping somebody behind you makes the tackle. That isn't the MLB job. Can you imagine Ray Lewis taking on a blocker hoping someone else makes the frigging tackle???

GO GET THE RB AT ALL COSTS MCCLAIN!!

anon, i watched the same game. when are we gonna s...

2011-11-21T09:26:56.018-08:00

anon,
i watched the same game. when are we gonna stop making excuses for this team? why always blames the refs? how come other teams don't make reffing excuses? when are we gonna start blaming the team itself for their problems? you know it, i know it and everyone here knows the raider defense is just not good enough. do you honestly think this team has enough to win the superbowl THIS year, let alone a playoff game with this up and down defense? how do YOU know which team shows up on sunday? the dominating team we saw against the chargers? or the team that eeked out a win against the vikings? or the team that lost against the broncos and chiefs?

with the exception of not scoring a point in the 4th quarter, the offense is still growing with carson palmer so i give them a pass. but the defense needs to step it up, especially with all those veterans kelly/seymour et al... when are they gonna play a whole game without the fans always blaming the officiating? sure there may have been a couple of mediocre calls but the bottom line is, great teams get by and win without crying over reffing. if they played within the rules to begin with we wouldn't have this problem now would we?

THEY ALMOST LOST THE GAME! the vikings were without their star player and a rookie qb!

bush fumbled, janikowski's FG was blocked, there were several missed tackles. on peterson't td run alone, why couldn't mcclain shed his blocker?

are you gonna blame these on the refs? come on guys! call it what it is - a so-so defense. we live or die with this defense and that's that!